Ponds, Streams, Waterfalls & Fountains:
Volume 1. Design & Construction
Volume 2. Maintenance, Stocking, Examples

V. 1 Print and eBook on Amazon
V. 2 Print and eBook on Amazon

by Robert (Bob) Fenner

Help! My Shubunkin is not acting right. 9/21/14
My pH is around 8. I have a 625 GPH submersible filter with a uv sterilizer and a fountain attachment. I just cleaned my 765 gallon pond. I started yesterday afternoon and finished this morning. I had to put my Shubunkin in a 50 gallon container with 11 other comet goldfish overnight. I about lost one of my comets. But that fish recovered and is doing fine. Now this one is acting strange. It is gasping at the surface of the water and darting around. The other fish are hiding in their fish shelters during the heat of the day. This is normal. Usually my Shubunkin hides with them. Not so today.
I used a new type of pond bacterial additive too.
<Why? What additive? To fix what problem with the pond?>
It keeps coming up to me as if asking for help. Is my fish stressed because of the water change?
<Fish can react to sudden changes in pH and temperature by swimming oddly, but typically most/all the fish will react, particularly within a single species (in this case, Carassius auratus). So if just one Goldfish is acting odd, then there may be something else going on. Examine the fish carefully for signs of physical damage (cats, leeches) or external parasites (anchor worms are not uncommon). Your photos don't really show me anything of significance, but capturing the fish with a net, removing to a white container, and then examining it yourself could be the next step for you.>
Does it have gill damage? Is it just hungry? No red areas or streets that I can see. Some photos are provided below.
Thank you.
<Most welcome, Neale.>

Help#2! 9/21/14
In my last letter to you, do you recall me telling you about the comet goldfish I about lost? Well, turns out now that one is suffering from the same ailment as the Shubunkin. I am almost certain now these two suffered some sort of gill damage from their overnight stay in the 50 gallon tank with the other fish. What should I do with them? Do I humanely kill them?
Or should I just wait and see? Thank you.
<The latter. Damage to the gill filaments -- if not fatal or so severe the underlying bones are damaged -- usually will recover in time. Upping the aeration and/or use of water features to ensure oxygen levels are good will be helpful for this fish of "diminished capacity" at the moment. In fact you may prefer to hold them in a cycled hospital tank where you can keep them out of direct sunshine and excessive warmth (warm water contains less oxygen) so that they heal more comfortably. Should be back to normal within
a month. Cheers, Neale.>
Help #3 9/21/14
The fish I wrote about in my 2nd email to you has died. Found her floating in the pond. Checked her gills before disposing of the body. They were a dark blood red. Is this a sign of gill damage?
<Nope. It's a sign of a dead fish. Haemoglobin, once blood flow and gill (or lung) ventilation stops, turns dark red.>
A photo of the dead fish is below. The 2nd fish was having the same symptoms as this poor fish. Will it die too?

Thank you.
<Most welcome, Neale.>

re: Help #3 9/21/14
Thank you so much for all your help Neal. All my remaining fish are hiding this morning. Do you think it is due to stress from the pond cleaning? The Shubunkin is still alive as well. Thank you.
<Most welcome and good luck. Neale.>
Help! #4 Update 9/23/14
I got an update for you on my sick Shubunkin. Found my poor Shubunkin dead today. It was up in one of the folds of EPDM liner I have in my pond.
<Oh dear!>
Looked like it had been there a day or two. The other fish seem healthy and active. I have 8 to 7 goldfish now. Hard lesson learned though. No overnight housing in a 50 gallon tank without aeration and filtration. Poor fish! :(
<Indeed. Good luck with the remaining fish/pond. Cheers, Neale.>

Golden Orfe 8/1/14
Hi I have a 200mm golden Orfe that has a bright red gill on the left side and a distorted mouth it looks like there in no skin over the gill see pic any ideas cheers Dave Beckett
<Either a genetic anomaly or resultant from a physical trauma. Both covered on WWM.
Bob Fenner>

Goldfish bloated, possibly dropsy. 8/1/14
Hello again crew! I wish I didn't have to write you but it seems one of my goldfish is sick. A few days ago I actually lost one of my goldfish to snapping turtle who forced his way under my 125gal ponds cover. I removed him but he had already bitten and killed one of my 7 year old goldfish. I had to net the remaining two fish out to remove the turtle and that's when I noticed one of my fish seemed swollen.
His name is Slim and he is an oddly shaped fish to begin with so I hadn't noticed the subtle change in his body shape. The ponds water reading are all fine (ammonia 0, nitrite 0)
<Nitrate? I'd bet this is sky high>
and the other fish is fine (the female who was killed by the turtle was healthy as well but her shorter fancier shape made her an easy target for the murderous turtle).
Does slim look swollen to you?
<Not terribly so; but... more than healthy>
I netted him out today to gently feel the area and the area around his vent felt very soft and pliable
like it maybe had liquid built up. He has no pineconing of the scales and he eats and poops just pine. Yesterday I fed him and the other fish a handful of peas and they ate and pooped them out easily. I'm
reluctant to stress him by trying medication as dropsy in all it's forms seems impossible to really cure. What would you guys suggest?
<That you read; re the use of Epsom:
http://wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/EpsomSaltUseF.htm
P.S. My Betta with the strange protrusion I emailed you guys about a couple of weeks ago has recovered completely after having it removed!
Thank you guys so much for giving your opinion on his problems and giving me the courage to do what needed to be done with him!
<Ah, good. Bob Fenner>

Re: Goldfish bloated, possibly dropsy. 8/3/14
Thank you for your response! I had read the page on Epsom salt and been worried that it would raise the ph and water hardness too much.
<Not likely issues>
Is it possible for water to be too hard for goldfish?
<Practically, no>
My water is extremely hard already the ph is 8.4 straight out of the tap
<So is ours here in San Diego... and I use it straight with goldfish>
and I have to really work at keeping my filters free of calcium and limescale build up. I had tested nitrate the day of the turtle attack and It had come out at 10.
<Fine>
I did not test it again today but I will as soon as I get off work. If I go the Epsom salt route I'll have to use a cattle feed tub as a make shift hospital tank because slim is too big for any of my regular aquariums.
Luckily I have the salt on hand so that's not an issue!
<Real good. Sorry for the delayed response. Bob Fenner>

Blue Orfe; disease 6/23/14
Hi,
I recently lost a 20inch 30year old golden Orfe with a bad infection which was mainly internal but also showed up on it's Dorsal fin. Treatment of the pond on three occasions was in vain as we're salt treatments. I now have a blue Orfe with similar symptoms, only this started with a small red mark on it's body. This developed into what looked like a large red grape.
This has now turned into what I can only describe as a large red piece of meat sticking out from it's body. The infection has travelled internally down to it's tail fin and pine cone appearance has started from the mass down to it's tail. All pond treatments for parasites and bacteria have failed and I have just ordered some ulcer treatment.
<The only working remedy for this fish to try is antibiotic injection>
Can you please tell me if I am wasting my time and am on the wrong track.
Water condition is all good, it's a large pond with an air supply and good filtration. I have also put some 50 lbs of salt into the pond at half an ounce per gallon rate. When I did this the Orfe appeared to pick up and was swimming and eating ok but the fish has taken a turn for the worse and is just staying on the top. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
<... You may well have to hire a veterinarian to assist your efforts here.
IF they can acquire Chloromycetin (succinate); I'd have them look at Ed Noga (Fish Disease; Diagnosis and Treatment) re SOP. Bob Fenner>
Re: Blue Orfe 7/1/14
Hi,
thanks for the info and suggestion, my apologies for the delay in responding. A few days after your mail the fish got really swollen and the infection was all over it's body. I felt that it was beyond saving and that it was better to put it out of it's misery. I appreciate your advice and help, and have in the past put fish to sleep and injected them in the area next to the Dorsal fin, but this fish was really sick in the last few days.
Perhaps I should have asked about it a lot earlier and it would have had a better chance of survival. Unfortunately I didn't expect a small red mark to develop as it did so quickly, but I will in future. I have treat the pond again for bacteria and will do so again in a few days. Thanks again,
Regards,
Dave
<Thank you for this follow up Dave. There are some very "rapid onset" bacterial problems with coldwater fishes... Frightening. Bob Fenner>

Help with Koi with Dropsy... and use of antibiotics in ponds f' 10/22/13
As you can see... from my original message, in such a state... typed wrong e-mail address. Thank you.
Hi, finny expert:
Not trying to be funny, actually I'm almost in a panic state. We've never had a problem with our Koi in 15 years! I have a Butterfly Koi that's approx. 14 years old that we've had in our pond almost since its inception. Last Wednesday/Thursday/Friday I thought she was full of eggs, thought it odd, but with Koi I read on one of the fish websites that it's possible even here in Ohio.
<Mmm; not likely this time of year... too cold>
No aquatic vets..._am in touch
with one in a close by city, but he hasn't gotten back to me. Not my regular vet... is that why there is no sense of urgency. He was formerly vet for one of the better known zoos in Ohio and has retired to private practice. He's my only chance for "doctor advice"... other than you kind folks! _
Microbe-Lift pond expert has been very helpful. An answer from a "not free" online service suggested Maracyn II which I am currently using.
<... Erythromycin... for what? Dropsy? From what presumed cause/s? I'd simply use Epsom Salt>
Dropsy was diagnosed by them and Microbe-Lift expert. The latter said that since Sunny's scales were in the pinecone stages, only on her bloated belly and not on her back, that it was bacterial Dropsy and treatment should proceed.
<... Might be bacteria involvement... But... the Mardel product... not a good, first choice... Was any sort of culture work done?>
She is in only 21 gallons
<... a poor idea. Exceedingly. I would return this fish to larger quarters, as it will assuredly perish here>
of water in a tub in our basement right now, since Sunday afternoon. I'm using the Maracyn II as directed. I've an air pump in there, testing... ammonia reading is 4.0,
<... deadly toxic. See above. MOVE this fish NOW>
after having done a 50% water change. I added "Ammonia out" for aquariums and have not yet tested again.
<... won't, WILL NOT remove the ongoing excreted and secreted ammonia>
We're equipped for a pond, not aquarium setting. We want to build her a larger area, with cement blocks and pond liner, but then need larger amounts of Maracyn 2... which is very expensive, even on Amazon, which I just checked. Usage is 2 packets per every 10 gallons of water. If we put her in a 60 - 100 gallon holding pond that would mean 12 - 20 packets per day for five days then repeat treatment for another five days. I paid $25 at PetSmart for a 24 packet box... it's $11.50 for same at Amazon. But that would be a minimum of $12/day. If there is nothing else, we will do it. But if something better, we'll keep her in the 20 gal for five days and they transfer her.
<.... this fish won't live that long in this setting>
to what I refer to below. (I KEEP INSERTING THOUGHTS THROUGHOUT THIS E-MAIL AND NOW I'M GETTING OUT OF SEQUENCE, SORRY... I'M USUALLY ABLE TO KEEP MY WITS ABOUT ME... BUT THIS HAS TAKEN IT'S TOLL ON ME -- NOT KNOWING REALLY WHAT TO DO FOR HER.)

It states on Maracyn 2
<STOP. Don't treat w/ this further>
package to finish treatment and not use any other antibiotics while using it. Is there something I can purchase over the counter or obtain a veterinary script for?
Incidentally, if my dear Sunny is alive after being treated for 10 days with Maracyn 2... what then... another series of antibiotics?
<... not if it were my fish. I would NOT put antibiotics, antimicrobials directly in the water... OF ALMOST NO USE>
My dear friend is also my vet but she knows absolutely nothing about fish. She would write me any script I needed and there is a local Pharm that fills pet scripts... but we would need to know what... and if there is an alternative that I could substitute for the Maracyn 2 after we transfer her (we haven't built... the larger pool yet) -- without killing her.
My vet advised that I call OSU, their Vet Med or Zoology Dept but they offered nothing. Since Sunday afternoon I've made 26 phone inquiries... all dead ended. I want to move my girl to larger quarters but can't afford to keep buying the packets of Maracyn 2 I would need to maintain a volume of say 60 - 100 gallons, which would be anywhere from 12 packets to 20 packets per day. Sunny is two feet long and can't really move where she is. I've put bacteria in but I know that has to seed. I will try anything to try to save her. Can you please help?
This morning her scales don't seem to be protruding as much... or am I seeing that I hope to see? She is eating thawed frozen peas and her water temp is 70 degrees, whereas our pond is now 50 degrees outside.
_Do I start feeding her? _ I'm going to petstore as soon as they open to get a piece of tubing to get out the waste. At least she is pooping. Is that a good sign? Our pond is pristine and all tests are perfect. I'm just scared to death that this same bacteria will infect my other finny guys. I've been praying a lot.
Please help... I'd really appreciate it. Thank you
ps Am in this for the long haul... and am prepared to winter her in the basement so as not to stress her any more by putting her back in her home.
<Read on WWM... re MgSO4... return this fish to the main pond, treat the water there w/ this salt... IF your friend/vet wants to inject the fish, have her contact me directly (here). I do NOT want to encourage private individuals in such matters... Or have her read Ed Noga's work/tome re the same... Bob Fenner>
Re: Fwd: Help with Koi with Dropsy 10/30/13
Hi, Bob.
First, let me apologize for causing you to roar! Wasn't aware of your credentials, and I don't and didn't last week have time to read your bio. I'm sure by now you've become aware that I, too, say what's on my mind at any given moment. BTW, I, too, have "credentials", which, in this instance, are totally useless. Yours are not.
Despite our valiant efforts, Sunny died Sunday morning.
<Ahh!>
Vet came out and took fluids from her ab which were pinkish. When lifted out of her hastily built hospital pond (150 gal) she had bloody red sores on sides. These were not seen when she was under water. The culture he sent out returned yesterday which indicated "Infectious Periotonitis",
<Aeromonad?>
I asked him whether bacterial or virtual and he said he suspected cause of condition was due to either kidney/renal failure, cancer, tumor, etc., and that this weakened condition caused Aeromonas as and his cousin Pseudomonas (please excuse spelling of both of them... am hurrying to get ready for work) ever present in our ponds to take over. He didn't say this exactly 'cuz he never mentioned the a/p cousins...
those are my words. He just indicated parasites or bad bacteria took over. Then came even more advice. I spoke to a gentlemen who is a well known fish breeder in the area and who was recently published in National Geographic and he said to either open up the pond again and heat if and treat it with Oxalic acid and feed MediKoi OR just watch the other fish in the pond. There is NO WAY IN HELL I can heat this pond.
Is my daddy Donald Trump???????????? Just frustrated and angry that there are SOOOOOOOOOO many opinions and suggestions out there... obviously fish husbandry is more complicated than human medicine,altho working parts are the same and equal the same sum.

I'm taking the advice of the Microbe-Lift expert and dosing the outside pond with Sabbactisun and Parazoryne, each for 10 days, to possibly keep the a/p cousins OFF my other fish. Even though the directions say best used in temps @ least 70 degrees, she said to go ahead and use it... which I will, as soon as it gets here on Monday. Like I said... I live in "Podunk" and nothing is readily available... maybe for aquariums, but not ponds. The few pond shops that are available don't stock anything but standard pond supplies but then can order them. Yea... so can I... taking the same length of time to get here.
So, now, after burying our girl, Sunny... I'm about out of gas mentally. I just want to try to save my other fish and am prepared to bring them in if necessary. But, 150 gallons can't accommodate everyone out there! I'm just saying prayers to our Lord and St. Francis to intercede and protect them.
Then... there is the question of: to salt or not to salt. For 14 years we've kept a .01% salt solution in the pond. That's what we were told at its inception. I questioned usage of salt for freshwater fish as I know there is salt naturally in water and was told... "who's the expert here?" I let him live! On a lighter note... since I did let you beat me up a bit... you must be a Scorpio or a Leo, right?
<Yes>
I know it's not fashionable to talk about signs of the zodiac now... but some things are just inescapable! It kinda takes one to know one, I think... cuz I'm a Scorpio with rising sun in Leo. If you're not close to the same... then my guess is a Gemini or Cancer. How close am I? You don't have to answer personal questions... but I usually don't take prisoners... and I don't think you do either.
Can you just please tell me I'm doing the right thing with 50 degree water temp out there and an aerator running for oxygen (air fork at surface) and a stock heater just for a hole for oxygen should the air fork fail for some reason. I'm going ahead with the Sab and Para because something within me is saying that it's better than nothing and all herbal and won't hurt my fish.

Thanks, Bob...and lighten up!
<? B>
Re: Fwd: Help with Koi with Dropsy... the end of dealing w/ nonsense 10/30/13
Gee, Bob... how could I possibly know, i.e., Stinger or Lion? I guess
our supreme arrogance and feisty demeanor just can't be hidden under that
proverbial bushel!!!!
<... please go elsewhere>
Anyway, in my haste to write, I probably wasn't clear. Our pond is shut
down for the season and I'm not now, nor will I be feeding! The MediKoi
feed was in the event we had another incident and had to bring one of
our guys into the hospital pond. He said to raise temp, feed MediKoi and
also get Oxalic acid and to treat hospital pond. After looking up that
little gem, there is no way on this earth I would attempt to use it
unless instructed by a professional, each and every step and with each
and every once. I suppose I could have it on hand to use on an old
antique ice chest I inherited!

So, I also was told to do another water change and not to do another
water change. What do you think? I didn't take water temp today but a
week ago Sunday, when i first wrote, it was 50 degrees. Our outside
temp is supposed to hit 65 here... just today and then gradually go down
to 47 high (weather temp)... so that outside water spigot is probably
running at about 50. So, should I do a maybe 650 gal water change or
not? I'm working now and I won't get home till tomorrow morning and my
husband refuses to do anything at the pond unless I'm there! Duh!!!!
Water change or not... or literally... do nothing.

Also... I thought fish floated when they expired. Sunny was at the very
bottom of her hospital pond. I have only had goldfish and Bettas prior
to my koi and when they died they were floating.
Thanks, Barbi

Sick Oranda... "Pictures of Lilly made my life so wonderful...." 10/23/13
Hi,
I have a small pond with 10 assorted goldfish and Koi.
<Not good to mix Nishikigoi with fancy goldfish... the former are much more eager eaters, bigger/stronger swimmers>
One of the Oranda is sick (Lilly). It looks like a swim bladder problem, but I'm not positive. She disappeared into the rocks over a month ago and just this past week reappeared, but unable to keep upright or swim to the surface.
She's not turning upside down, which is typical for swim bladder, but can't really swim and stays close to objects that will keep her steady.
I don't see how she getting any food. What should I do?
Linda
<... do you usually bring your goldfish indoors for the winter? I would...
IF the water temp. is below 55F. consistently I would cease feeding the Pondfish altogether. Please search/read on WWM re winter maintenance of ponds period. Bob Fenner>
Re: Sick Oranda 10/23/13
Thanks for answering. I don't bring the goldfish or Orandas in for the winter. They have survived three winters and are all very hardy. And even though the Orandas are slower eaters, they seem to be thriving (except Lilly). So, baring all that, is there anything I can do for Lilly?
<... Depends on what the actual cause/s may be here... water quality, nutrition, perhaps simply genetic. Have you searched WWM re? Read the survey articles on GF health? B>

Pregnant pond comet? Using WWM 8/17/13
My comet seems to have been swollen since last summer. She wobbles when she swims. Not sure if she is pregnant or something wrong with her. How can I tell
<... could be full of eggs, egg-bound, a tumour, fatty degeneration due to poor food/feeding... Search WWM w/ your string above and read. Bob Fenner>

Koi in pond 7/30/13
Hi,
<Kris>
I searched your site but could not find any reference to my problem. We have an outdoor artificial pond about 4000 gal with about 14 Koi (and just got a few babies!) Today I noticed one of the Koi is having trouble swimming and it looks as if there is a kink in its tail just about where the body ends and the tail begins. It is hiding and moving very slowly, and had difficulty going after Koi food. Superficially it looks fine, normal color, fins are all there and undamaged, etc. Honestly it looks to me similar to a dog or cat breaking their tail and it having a kink in it after healing.
<Happens; a few possible causes; most likely a physical trauma. As you state, the underlying bone/support broken. Can fix itself, but often the fish will be fine (survive) in any case>
Is this diagnostic of a disease or parasite?
<Not likely pathogenic>
And if it is an "injury", do you have any idea how it could have occurred?
<Oh yes; jumping, swimming into something hard; possibly a predator jumping into the pond, biting it>
I would be grateful for any insight you could provide.
Thank you,
Kris
<Unless there is evidence of "something" definitively wrong here, I would likely do nothing other than test water quality; keep up regular maintenance. Bob Fenner>
Re: Koi in pond 7/30/13
Thank you so much for your quick reply! I was looking around on the internet and saw that sometimes electrical shock or lightning can cause tail kinking as well.
<Yes; but more than one fish is generally affected in these cases... Not hard to measure (simple low voltage multi-tester) for stray current... if you're concerned. And for browsers and GP (general practice, sorry); all electrics on ponds (pumps, lights...) of 120, 240 v should/must be wired through a GFCI>
I will hope for the best.
Thanks again :-)
<Ah, welcome. BobF>
Re: Koi in pond 7/30/13
Yes, we do have the GFCIs. I appreciate your help. Going down to just check the water chemistries now :-)
<Real good... Remember the mantra, "When, where in doubt, water changes!".
Cheers, BobF>

pond goldfish question 4/17/13
I have a 9 year old large garden pond goldfish who is laying on her side at the bottom of my pond. If I move her she will swim for a minute and then float to the bottom. She is not breathing through her mouth. She does not appear to have external parasites or fungus. My water condition has all tested within limits.
<Have you changed (a bunch) of the water recently? Has the weather changed a good deal? Your comet "may have swallowed a bug... At any length, there is really naught to "do" at this juncture. Do read here for more input:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/PondSubWebIndex/pdenvdistrbfixf.htm
and the linked files above>
Thank you
Shelley
<Welcome. Bob Fenner>

Comet with growth on fins 12/31/12
Dear WWM crew,
<Helen>
This comet has lived in my mum's 250l pond for around 10 years. It is about 4 inches in body length and lives with, at any given time, a couple of other small goldfish.
It has had the pictured growth on its side fins for a few months. In that time, it has spread to both fins and increased in size. The fish swims and eats fine (and indeed, since I put my two fantails into the pond with the comet, someone has been spawning: we assume the comet was involved). It doesn't seem to be sick.
Do you have any idea what this could be and what, if anything, would you do? I am wondering if its Lymphocystis?
Thanks!
Helen
<Mmm, other tumorous growth/s... can be trimmed, but I'd likely leave it alone. Read here re:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/GFGrowthF6.htm
and the linked files above. Bob Fenner>

Re: Treating goldfish for ick and juvenile green frog 3/25/12
Thank you for your quick reply, Bob!
<Welcome Ronna. BobF>

young fish acting crazy. Pond goldfish hlth. 11/26/11
Hello! We have an outdoor pond that is about 7 feet x 8 feet x 2.5 feet deep. It's about 2 years old, and has about a dozen goldfish in it, with over a dozen plants (including the ones in the "stream"). In the summer we keep lots of hyacinth and lettuce in there too, but those have all been removed for the winter. Snails appeared magically - we assume on a plant.
<Likely so>
About half of the fish in there are babies of varying ages. We haven't had any health issues in the past, but today one of the babies (probably about 5 months old) started acting crazy. He (or she) would swim like crazy wiggling frantically, shoot to the surface and come out of the water about 1/4 of his length, then go back to the bottom. He didn't come to eat earlier today, which we didn't find alarming. They don't all come every time, especially this time of year. All of the other fish are acting normally.
We've put this one in a container, and now he's just sitting there.
Should we keep him isolated?
<Better for this fish to be kept in the pond... more stable. IF there were a communicable issue, it's in the system already>
Surely he's too young for mating behavior? And he was never chasing or being chased...
Thanks for any advice you can give us!
Linda
<Perhaps a physical/neuronal injury... or genetic... I urge you to not be overly-concerned w/ this one fish's health. Bob Fenner>
Re: young fish acting crazy 11/26/11
Thank you so much!
<Welcome!>
He's being re-acclimatized now (if that's the term - his container is in the pond to equalize temperatures).
We'll release him later and hope he does OK.
Linda

Sick Goldfish 6/12/11
I recently rescued some goldfish from a guy closing down his pond. I have a 500 gallon pond that I set up this spring. It has a 1000GPH pump and a bio falls, lots of plants and the water is very clear and tests normal for Nitrate, Nitrite, and the only "off" thing on the test strip is hard water. I have 9 fish in the pond all about 4-6 inches. The gold ones look great and seem to be thriving. I rescued a "white" goldfish that I thought had an orange mark on it's back'¦ Well the orange mark turned out to be a very large lesion and is now red (see attached pic). It's a long story but when I rescued the fish they guy said this one was marked like a Koi and because his water was so murky I couldn't see the problem until I got home and while I thought it looked strange it didn't look this bad until today when I saw one of the other fish eating what looked like fungus off of the fish's side.
I have since quarantined the fish and added Melafix per recommendation of a guy at Petco. He's now in a tub with an air stone and I'm monitoring the water. I went to a movie and when I came back all of the scales from the infected area are gone (floating in the water and I skimmed them out. The redness is diminished and he's still frisky and moving around but looks awful. He's in about 10 gallons of water and will flip around like crazy when I put the skimmer in to get rid of the shed scales...
I feel really bad for him and want to help. All of the info on the forums is interesting but I'm lost.
Thanks
Ed
<Hello Ed. Your pond sounds about right for Goldfish, though I must make clear that 500 gallons isn't much when we're talking about ponds. It'd be fine for a small group of Goldfish, maybe half a dozen specimens initially (if they're happy, they'll breed) but I wouldn't keep Koi in there, or anything flighty like Orfe. Also, you comment that your water is hard -- that's fine! Like most Eurasian fish species, Goldfish not only thrive in hard water they prefer it to very soft water. I think it comes as a surprise to many aquarists that the hard, alkaline water common across much of Europe is actually harder and more alkaline than the African Rift Valley lakes! On the plus side, hard water ensures very stable water chemistry, which is important in ponds because pH tends to vary through the actions of organic decay and nitrate accumulation (which lower pH) and photosynthesis (which raises pH). Now, with all this said by way of preface, it isn't immediately obvious what your Goldfish is suffering from. My instinct is that this is some sort of bacterial septicaemia, in which case a strong course of antibiotics -- ideally, injected by a vet -- will be required. Treatment in a hospital tank is a good idea, and if you must use food-based antibiotics, do take care to provide the right dose. You may want to use a cocktail of antibiotics to handle both gram-positive and gram-negative bacteria -- again, a vet will advise you here. A good many vets deal in pond fish these days, so if you can take this course of action, it's by far the best. Because your Goldfish is still active and feeding, there's a good chance he'll survive if treated promptly. As for Melafix, it is, at best, a topical antiseptic that you might use with success in situations where a fish has been damaged, e.g., through careless handling, but hasn't actually become sick. Once bacteria make their presence known, I don't consider Melafix to be a reliable cure. Hope this helps, Neale.>

Re: Sick Goldfish 6/12/11
Thanks Neale, I did contact my vet but have not heard back yet. The fish is still swimming this morning so I think he's hanging on. I'll let you know what happens. Thanks again!
ED
<Good luck! Neale.>

Multiple Bloated Goldfish 4/5/11
Hi there Bob/Sabrina/WWM Crew in general!
I am helping a neighbor of mine with an issue of multiple goldfish who are bloated.
They are in an outdoor pond, approximately 300 gallons.
I am unsure as to how large the pump is, but I am sure that it could have a better filtration system. It is a submersed box filter with sponges that is run to a fountain. There are 5 Veiltails, 2 Comets, and 1 Koi. The Koi is unaffected so far, as he was a gift from a friend who had to move. The veils and comets are the only fish who seem to be affected. I have read through your site extensively and it seems to be constipation, but from what I can find on your site this issue is in the case of one fish. I am dealing with
multiple fish with the same issue. The reason I believe it is constipation is the HIGH (47%) protein food
<Yikes>
he has been using for who knows how long. But would this affect all of his fish? Or is it some other type of infection?
<It's almost assuredly the food>
I am considering an Epsom salt/water change treatment regimen along with a change to a diet that is lower in protein and higher in fiber. (I keep aquariums, and I have generally found that less is more.) How often should I change a portion of the water, and how much should I change each time?
<I'd change a good quarter a week>
I was thinking every 3 to 4 days, about 50 percent changed each time.
<Mmm, IF you can trust the source water, this should be fine>
I was going to do this for 3 to 4 weeks to see if there was any improvement. If this does not work, I have also read that Kanamycin in their food might be the next best route,
<I'd leave off with antibiotics here>
which, from what I have read and what my local fish store recommended, seems to be the best follow-up in the case the salt treatment is ineffective. Please let me know if you need any more information to help
get these guys back into shape, or whatever else you think the problem(s) might be.
Thank you for your time and help! We really appreciate it!
Mitchell
<The better, more appropriate food (perhaps some Anacharis/Egeria added to the system for a few reasons), and water changes, time going by will "do it" here. Bob Fenner>

Koi with Sudden symptoms. Please Help. -- 12/08/10
First of all I have 1 large 5-6 yr old Koi and 4 comet goldfish in a about 150 gallon pond.
<Mmm, small/unstable physically and chemically. Hopefully this volume is underground, near structure... discounting daily vacillation>
I may be 1-2 gallons off, but not more than that. This was a Koi we adopted from PetSmart due to the original owners moving and the humane society doing the adoption through them. We had to bring proof before
being given the Koi and already had the 4 comets in the pond and it was well cycled.
<Good move>
He has been in this pond for almost a year without a problem until tonight. All the fish have been eating less since it is the winter months and they are outside. I live in Yuma, AZ and the water has slowly and steadily been growing colder into December without problem. Everyone we have talked to and researched said it was normal for the comets and the Koi to have a decreased appetite or to completely stop eating.
<This is so>
They have been progressing through their hibernation modes as usual standards seem to be with less movement, sitting at the bottom more, decreased appetite. I check on the pond and all the inhabitants (there are some mystery snails also present before Koi was introduced) multiple times a day and so does my boyfriend. All day long the fish have been acting and looking normally. It was about 11:30pm AZ time when I lasted checked and everything was fine.
I went into my backyard and peered into the pond at 2:30 am and noticed that the comet goldfish are behaving and look normal on the outside. However, the Koi which normally has a fairly pristine white belly, appears to have a brownish color developing on his belly scales. There appears to be a small guppy-like tail-fin or worm-like thing slightly protruding from his mouth.

He is leaving his mouth wide open constantly now. And has sprouted a strange lump on his cheek that was not present earlier. When I mentioned this to my boyfriend he came and looked as well. He agreed that the Koi did not look like this earlier. He used the net to pull the comets to the surface for a close examination (they tend to hang close to the Koi wherever he roams in the pond, about 1-2 ft distance normally). None of the 4 comet goldfish were exhibiting any of the symptoms the Koi has suddenly shown.
I could not tell if it was actual scratching or if I just spooked him (we never put our hands in the pond unless absolutely necessary and only after being properly washed and dried), but when I got as close to the water as possible to examine him, he began erratically swimming around the pond and did rub the side of the pond, gravel, and log. I moved the pond plants to the shallower area in order to get some photos and examine all the inhabitants better. He doesn't act this way unless I get very close to the water's surface, but I do not generally get very close to them in order to watch them as naturally as possible.
The pond gets regular frequent water changes
<How much, how often?>
and a very large, mostly biologically driven filter which is carefully rinsed and I guess you could say "cleaned" on a very regular basis.
<Do you measure aspects of nitrogen cycling? Nitrate accumulation?>
I make sure to remove anything bad for the pond or fish and leave anything like the filter bacteria that clean the ammonia and excess waste from the water. My boyfriend and I made sure we knew what was good and bad water quality and filtering wise before adopting the Koi.
<Good>
I am very worried because of the sudden and unusual symptoms that my Koi is displaying.
He had slightly bulging eyes for 1 day a couple weeks ago, but it was very slight and went away the same day. Currently, his eyes are normal size as well. As far as either of us can tell, his belly does not look extended or sunken in at all.
Also, I was not aware until a few moments ago when running around my house in a panic, looking for my camera, that my roommate had tossed his cichlid into the pond about 2 weeks ago.
<What species? What is the water temp.?>
He then informed me that it lived 2-3 days before dying while hiding within the hollow log the entire time and that he removed it as soon as he saw it floating (before I woke up that morning) and threw the fish away. Stating that his tank busted and he had no where else to put it. His cichlid was a healthy fish and had never displayed signs of illness or disease in the tank, but I don't know if it was for sure or if maybe the fish died inside the log and sat inside until being dislodged. There is no way to be sure, but the ammonia, nitrates, nitrites, and pH have all remained normal and steady.
<Numbers please>
And when I say normal, all levels are at ideal values. My test kit says the pH is perfect, ammonia is between 0.00-0.25 ppm, nitrates = 0-5, and nitrites = 0.00-0.25 ppm. I performed the tests according to the booklets instructions included with the kit. The book also explains optimum levels for each part of the water quality and what each does in positive and negative ways in the pond, what the differing degrees of seriousness each value means, and a summary of how most normal ponds levels will spike and then regulate due to things like new fish or plants.
<Ah yes>
Our water is always extremely clear and there is enough good algae and "waste cleaners" to maintain that. I am hesitant to add any fish that may perform this job due to cold water adaptations the Koi and goldfish possess not common to other types of fish and the added stress on the pond with another fish. 1 Koi, 4 Comet goldfish, 6-7 variously colored Mystery Snails and about 5-6 Ghost shrimp cleaning the shallowest area. And the shrimp are closed in this shallow area by a large impasse of rocks that the water can flow through but the shrimp can't cross. They are in the area where the filtered water empties from the pipe into the water. This out of pond filter allows us to clean and inspect frequently, control the good bacteria, remove waste missed by the "cleaner" snails/shrimp, and due to original pond set-up difficulties, removed the need for us to reach into the water in order to fix the filter. This was done because we had problems
a) with keeping the in-pond filter from clogging, breaking, losing suction, etc (and we tried multiple filter systems before giving up) and b) we were worried that once we started adding the snails and goldfish that we might contaminate the water as this is a danger with our inside marine fish tank and the delicate puffers that occupy it. The pump used for the filter is said to pump at least 300+ gallons per hour. It goes through a pipe into a large bucket with filter bags, which can be removed separately for cleaning of wastes and excess bacteria if any. The bags are rinsed out with water I take from the pond and I make sure to do this 1-2 days before any water changes. This was the advice of the man who explained and sent us the designs for his filter and has used this filter successfully for over 20 years. He has been a neighbor since childhood and has since enclosed his pond due to insane grass and weed intrusions from neighboring fields to his house. He made, set-up, and instructed on how to properly care for and clean the system for the best pond environment.
Please help me in any way you can. This Koi is my baby and my joy. I know PetSmart can analyze a water sample for us once they open, but I am concerned because of some of the info on the "Koi ulcerative lesions" and "Mycobacteria" <Mycobacteria>
that whatever it may be might not show up in a water sample and Yuma does not have a vet that treats fish. This area is mainly a domesticated animal/livestock area.
Paige
Desperate for Info and Clues and located in a desert.....
PS. It took me forever to get a decent picture and I was sure they would help, especially with the mouth thing.
Please let me know if you need them closer or anything. I can try.
Sorry for the lighting. Its still dark so I had to use another light and try to get a good enough angle over the water to see through the glare and water ripples... Let's just say he did not like the unusual extra attention and began moving around a lot and kinda of shaking his head with that thing in his mouth stuck as far out as possible.
<Other than boosting this fish's immune system via supplements applied to the food, I would not do anything "overt" here. These sorts of tumorous growths are at times positively correlated with "poor water quality" aspects, but the fact that you have the stated snails and shrimp doing well negates this possibility. It may bring you solace to read here:
http://wetwebmedia.com/PondSubWebIndex/Pond%20Sub%20Web.htm
scroll down to the red tray, "pondfish disease"
Bob Fenner>

Re: Koi with Sudden symptoms. Please Help. 12/10/10
I have been keeping a close eye on him throughout the time since your speedy reply; about every 1-1.5 hours. (Thank you for the haste). He continued to display his mouth growth and shake his head as hard and quickly as possible from time to time until he finally settled for the night. He was still displaying all symptoms when I finally went to bed. However, when I woke up today and have checked all day frequently (usually about ever 2-4 hours throughout the day) and he has not shown any sign of the mouth growth at all. The discolored belly scales have returned to their normal pristine white and stayed that way. He only has that small lump left on his cheek and it has not changed at all.
<This is typical>
I was going to do a water change and make sure to "ground materials/pond bottom/rocks" after moving him to a safe area for the cleaning period, but I wanted to double check this with you since almost all
of his symptoms have disappeared just as suddenly it seems without any changes being made by me. I did not want to do any kind of treatment in the middle of the night at its coldest. We did nothing to remove or treat the mouth growth in any way either because Bob did not directly say to do so

and we did not want to harm the fish unintentionally or make anything worse.
All pond levels are still the same as when I first wrote the e-mail and I made sure to test a few times with at least a 12 hour interval between the first test from my first e-mail to the second one done on Wednesday. Also another at least 10 hours between that test and the one I did today. What could this mean?
<That the fish is rallying>
I just want to make sure he is actually doing better before assuming so or treating him for something he might have fought off himself.
Thanks again. This was an amazing help, especially with the mouth growth.
No information on what it could be anywhere on this site that I could find or through Google and yahoo search.
Paige
aka....baffled and unsure
<Such is life Paige. BobF>
Re: Koi with Sudden symptoms. Please Help. 12/10/10
Well thank you for at least explaining what was probably happening. I couldn't find anything about his mouth anywhere and started to panic.
<Ahh, I do apologize for not proffering more information, compassion here.
There is quite a body of (scientific) knowledge re virus, viral complaints of Cyprinus carpio and other economically important carps/cyprinids... And I have been "party to" a good deal of this literature as well as commercial efforts to curtail their spread. What you very likely have, are observing is one of these "pox's... It may well wax/wane, something like "warts" on human's hands. At any length, not to worry here. BobF>
Re: Koi with Sudden symptoms. Please Help. 12/11/10
Actually the Koi ended up spitting out the thing in his mouth.
<? Was this the markings showing on the outside as well?>
It looked like it was a fish that got caught and he managed to get it out so I removed it from the pond as soon as I saw it. Were not missing any fish though.
Weird.
And you were awesome. You responded promptly and gave me good information I wasn't aware of. And thanks again you were a huge help.
Paige
<Welcome. BobF>

Re: Koi with Sudden symptoms. Please Help. 12/13/10
Just the thing protruding from his mouth.
Paige Nicholls

Re: Carpal syndromes 11/17/10
Bob, would you like to read the epilogue? On 11/9, I could not see Gracie.
Plenty of hiding places; not necessarily meaningful. On the 12th, there was the smell of decay, though. Saturday the 13th was Fall maintenance day. The water lilies, bluebells and pickerel rush were cut back and sunk to the scoured bottom. That's when we found her, still alive, still pine-coned and discolored. I removed her to a bucket until I could prepare an aquarium for her. The following morning, she was gone. "Huh," I thought, "Something's quoted Douglas Adams' porpoises: 'So long, and thanks for all the fish!'"
I had some raking to do around the pond, and that's when I found her. Still alive!
Bleeding from at least one puncture. Right or wrong, I treated her as a lobster: head first in hot water.
Indeed, the other 13 are fine, unaffected.
Max
<Thanks for this follow-up Max, and the "Hitchhiker's" ref. BobF>
Re: Carpal syndromes 11/18/10
I appreciate your counsel, Bob. Don't forget your towel!
Max
<Never. B>

question on goldfish, pond, hlth. 11/17/10
I have a fish pond which is about 4000 gal. I had this pond for about 20 years, I have 70 gold fish now all from the off spring of 4. We have one gold fish which is about 4 years old and over the last 2 years it's stomach has gotten bigger and bigger. At first I thought it was eggs. But the other day it was having trouble swimming.
<Still could be... "egg-bound">
It was flipping over and upside down on the top of the pond. The fish was so blown up it looked like he was about to explode. His scales were all flat. I took a small needle and inserted it underneath him and clear water came out and some of the blot went down. What does that mean?
<Perhaps a tumour>
I took this fish out of the pond and put it in a holding tank in my house.
I just put 2" of water in the tank with a air stone. The reason I put this small amount of water is because the fish was all stressed out from trying to right it self. Now the fish looks less stressed and stays flat on the bottom. I added a little sea salt and some medication for fungus which covers swim bladder infections. I also added stress coat to the new water. It seems the past few days it has been able to swim better and looks better but still blown up. If this fish recovers from what ever it has, my question is can I put this fish back in the pond before the winter sets in.
<I'd wait...>
Right now the pond temperature is 42 degrees, in the next 3 to 4 weeks the pond should be frozen. Or should I try to keep the fish in house until the spring than put him back if he lives were would he have a better chance if he recovers. Thank you.
<Much better to house this fish in the house for the cold period. Bob Fenner>
Mike
Re: re: question on goldfish 11/17/10
Thanks
I will do that and let you know if the fish recovers
Mike
<Thank you, BobF>

outdoor pond problem... reading 9/15/10
Hello,
Thank you for this comprehensive website. I have a 15 gallon
<Really? Fifteen gallon? Like a volume that is 2 by 1 by 1 foot in size?>
outdoor Koi
<... Really? Koi carp?>
tank with several fish and some vegetation.
<How many? What types?>
I bought the house with the tank and fish already in place, so I do not know much about the specifics.
However, I do know the old owners had the tank for about 4 years before we bought the house. We live in Maryland and took over the tank last September and substituted the filter for a deicer in the winter. The fish lived through the winter and I was pleasantly surprised that they all made it!
I read online that I do not need to feed the Koi as everything they need is already in the tank so I didn't feed them all winter. In the spring I began feeding them about once a week but was told I actually don't need to feed them at all, so I stopped.
<Do have to be fed during warmer weather...>
They survived all spring and summer but just this week have started dying. In the spring/summer there were 2 babies born and those two are thriving. We started with 4 gold Koi and 1 black/grey Koi. The black/grey Koi disappeared a few times this summer, always reappearing, but now I haven't seen him/her for months. Then last week I found a dead gold Koi in the bottom of the tank :( I thought maybe it was
just time
<... no>
and didn't think much of it. Then today another very lethargic fish was laying at the bottom of the tank, I think s/he is still alive, but barely. I am down to the 2 babies and 2 adults, I want to keep them safe,
please help.
<? With what? Such a small volume cannot support this species... even if it were relatively stable, filtered... which it is not>
I am not sure how to test the water or even what to look for.
I don't know anything about maintaining a tank and thought it would just maintain itself... I am willing to put work into it, I just want to make sure more fish don't die. Thanks in advance for any help or info.
<Uhh, read here:
http://wetwebmedia.com/PondSubWebIndex/Pond%20Sub%20Web.htm
Bob Fenner>

dying Koi and goldfish - hope you can help... 9/13/10
Good day Bob and Crew,
<Howdy>
My wonderful and generous and extravagant Husband built this pond for me as a birthday present last November. It's pretty amazing and I absolutely love it. It has aged and grown in nicely since this photo
was taken last March. We donated the female goldfish to friends and kept the Koi - the goldfish were a bit too fecund for the size of the pond. As to Koi, we had a total of eight. There are also three Plecostomus and a couple of Chinese algae eaters
<I'd ditch these>
and a slew of Japanese Trap Door Snails as well as a few Zebra Danios and Minnows to keep the
mosquitoes under control.
<Good>
We achieved biological balance within five weeks of set up and haven't had a problem or any lost fish since inception. ...until about a month ago which is the reason for this email.
Background info first: the pond is about 1300 to 1400 gallons and has three distinct depth sections/areas. Each depth area has a large cap rock over it to offer protection for the fish from birds and too much sun. The pond measures 23' x 10' (inside measure) and depth is 4'6" in one area, 3' in the second, and 4' in the third. There are two bottom drains in the deepest sections at each end that both go through the Nexus Easy Pod filter (our pump is supposed to be able to handle a 4,000 to 5,000 gallon pond, I forget the size/name of it, sorry.) We also have a skimmer basket and a separate pump for it that feeds solely to
the round ball on the big rock in the center. We used a firestone (?) 25 year warranted liner specifically made for pond use and all silicones, foams, sealants, etc. were very specifically bought from pond supply houses (such as Webb's Water Gardens, etc) and rated for pond use. There is also a PondMaster UV sterilizer in the water return system as well with a brand new 40 watt bulb.
<So far... so good>
We test the water regularly and it always tests virtually perfect and it STILL does. Our ammonia is nil...
<Should/must be zip>
nitrate/nitrite levels as well... as I said; we achieved balance a long time ago. I don't know specific levels right now. I am at work. We are in South Florida, Fort Lauderdale area, agricultural zone 10, if that helps. The pond was very deliberately built 16" HAG (height above grade) so that water run-off from the yard would not carry pesticides or fertilizers into the pond and kill the fish.
<Good>
For plants we have elephant ears (taro) in the waterfall box (not shown in this photo - they are now about 5' tall), water lilies, irises, dwarf white irises, Cabomba, Anacharis, and some other floating water lily type
plant with tiny papery white flowers whose name escapes me, and 6' to 7' tall papyrus by the turtle beach (the turtles got raccooned or birded a while ago). We do not have an excess of algae of any sort except on the waterfall and flat rock under the ball - which I clean off by hand weekly - it plucks easily.
As to our issue... about a month ago, I found a small dead goldfish (that one last fling all the girls had bore progeny!) I wasn't overly concerned. A few days later there was another listlessly floating (but not yet dead) 2" goldfish. Both were in the left side of the pond.
Again I didn't connect anything. I had been trying to cull the baby goldfish (I would rather cull a few babies that I'm not attached to than have them grow up and breed) and one night I was able to catch six 2" babies! Six of them! I am not that good. This was suspicious and alerted me that there might be a problem. They were a bit slower than usual. But for the next week... nothing. Testing water and... nothing.
Two weeks ago (perhaps two and a half weeks) I notice that Dr Grey (a 7" Koi) was listless and quite thin and in the left side of the pond. We fished him up to the surface - he did not fight at all - to get a good
look at him. Nothing. He looked fine. No fuzz, no bumps, no bruising, no scales (but I didn't think he was a scale-less Koi), VERY thin, no fight to him at all, no visible worms, gills look fine.
Found out that we have been having raccoons come to our pond at night.
Saw them one morning sitting on the same rock the cat is and playing the water coming out of the round rock. We are working on dissuading them from returning, but so far without much success. We will probably have to trap them.
<Mmm, maybe a shocking wire for a while...>
We also are having problems with Buffo toads. We remove and kill them when we find them as they are highly poisonous. Could raccoon urine or Buffo toad poisoning be affecting the water quality?
<The Bufos, yes>
About ten days ago, Dr Grey had a fairly severe outbreak of white fuzz on his tail fin to the point that the tail looked like it was rotting away. I started feeding him (and all the fish, of course) Medi-koi sinking fish food and I put a dose of Praziquantel in the pond. Figure the fuzz is probably fungus... there is a possibility he could have a parasitic worm of some sort (?).
<Doubtful... this all reads as "something" environmental>
Within three days, Dr Grey was gone, though in pieces on the big flat rock. Raccoons. Not a natural death, though he wasn't really far from it.
Last week, Sunrise (another Koi, 6") was swimming upside down near the bottom of the pond. Hubby came home at lunchtime and Sunrise was floating, dead. He says she had an empty stomach - and she, too, was very thin. Have not lost any fish since Sunrise, but still don't know why we lost the ones we did.
We also put in the turbo bubbler - I don't know how else to describe it - it is the one needed to flush the Nexus Easy Pod filter.
<Good>
It is the size of a gallon of milk.
<... small>
It has four outlets and we put all four 6" disks in the pond at various locations, just in case there was something stagnant. I don't know, a dead toad, sitting trapped against a stone under a rock poisoning an area of the water. It's probably a dumb idea, but we couldn't think of what else to do. We also did a very very light potassium permanganate burn on the pond. Pot perm is a sterilizer and in very light quantities is fish and plant safe.
<Ok>
I will say that after we put in the bubbler, there was a light oil slick on the left side of the pond for about a day and a half, but nothing floated to the surface. Actually it wasn't quite an oil slick. There were tiny micro bubbles and when I tried to figure out what they were, I realized they were oily and would leave a slight oily sheen behind that dissipated very rapidly. We even took nets (and a hose) and tried to disturb the water in that section as well - and still nothing.
I realize this is a novel, hope that is helpful and not annoying... if you have any questions, please do not hesitate to call.
Regards,
Martina Robinson
<I do wish I had something, the "thing" definitive to relate to you here. I do not; other than the re-assertion that there is something amiss environmentally... Could be the toads... At any length, "the" or a thing to do would be to "step up" your water changing regimen... I'd flush a good 20-25% of the water out (from the bottom) every week... likely on Sunday... when you can and will be present, drinking your coffee, what have you... to dilute the effect/s of whatever this is, complex with new water ionic content... Mmm, what else? Nothing really comes to mind. I would not treat the water, fishes... I might cover/net the top to keep out the coons and toads. Bob Fenner>

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Ponds, Streams, Waterfalls & Fountains:
Volume 1. Design & Construction
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