Guidelines for ID Questions by Lynn Zurik, ID Guide Flowchart by Lynn Zurik,

Dichotomous key to underwater life:

A placemarker file for a very large, ongoing project 

Re: re: mysterious visitor... Di/tri-chotomous key to life, the universe, everything!    8/10/10
<Yep, it's going to be a heap of work (with some fun/frustration built in, I'm
sure), but it'll be worth it in the end.
<I do agree... though have been involved in making such keys, and given considerable thought to higher taxonomic divisions that might prove of use>
Right now, I've got to finish uploading those info sheets onto Adam's site (it'll probably take the rest of the week), then I'll be free. I was going to start writing another article, but instead, I'll start working on the key...or at least start getting basic parts of it organized in my head. I need to think on it a bit. -Lynn Z>
<Am hoping we can find another graphic artist for the general drawings... My artistic friend who I'd hoped to employ, Dork/Dave is about spent health-wise unfortunately. BobF>
Re: re: mysterious visitor
Right now, I've got to finish uploading those info sheets onto Adam's site (it'll probably take the rest of the week), then I'll be free. I was going to start writing another article, but instead, I'll start working on the key...or at least start getting basic parts of it organized in my head. I need to think on it a bit. -Lynn Z>
<Am hoping we can find another graphic artist for the general drawings... My artistic friend who I'd hoped to employ, Dork/Dave is about spent health-wise unfortunately. BobF>
<<Well, if it helps, one thing I'll admit to being good at is drawing. I was advised more than once by my art instructors at UT to pursue medical illustration. Lynn Z>>
<Wow! Great news Lynn. B>
Re: re: mysterious visitor
I can take care of the drawings, no problem. They can be as simple or detailed as we need. It's the written part of the key that's going to be the headache!
-Lynn
<Nah... I think we'll do just fine. B>
<You betcha, I'm just glad to have you onboard for this project! -Lynn>
>A pleasure and honour. B<
<<For me as well, Bob.  Lynn>>
Re: re: mysterious visitor
<Mmm, okay! Am feeling frisky... at least a bit... I'll "fire the first salvo" as it were/is:

1A) Organism too small to be seen without microscope use (Viruses, Protozoans, Single Celled Algae and more), go to (let's leave this open for now)
1B) Organism large enough to be seen with the naked eye (all other life), go to: 2A

2A) Multicellular organism photosynthetic/photoautotrophic (generating, using chloroplasts), made up of similar cells (Thalli) or more specialised cells (leaves, roots, vascular systems) (Macro-algae and true Plants), go to (let's leave this open for now)
2B) Multicellular organism not entirely photosynthetic (heterotrophic), made up of tissues, possibly organs, organ systems (Multicelled animals), go to 3A

3A) Having simple umbrella shaped to radial body plan (Ctenophores and Cnidarians... Comb Jellies and Corals and allies), with soft tissue, perhaps with hard skeletal elements, go to 4A) or modified, apparent radial body plan (Echinoderms... Seastars, Brittlestars, sea cucumbers, crinoids, sand dollars) with spiny skin, vascular system et al., go to (let's leave this open for now)
3B) Having bilateral, tubular or other body plan (All other invertebrate and vertebrate groups), go to (let's leave this open for now)

Ho buoy... we'll need eventually to write a brief instruction set to this key (to life)... and need example drawings of the body shapes, perhaps general idealized outlines for the groups mentioned above at this juncture... What do you think? Will something like this work?
BobF
Re: re: mysterious visitor
Hey, no fair getting a head start on the fun stuff! Looks like a good start to me though!
-Lynn
<Is a small try at a BIG project. B>

Dichotomous Key    9/16/10
Hi Bob,
<Hey Lynn!>
After much dithering with the key, I'm thinking that the best thing to do is take all the different phyla to the class level and stop there (except crustaceans - will likely go a bit further). That way, it'll keep the thing from becoming too ponderous.
<Mmm, okay... whoa, watch out, now am pondering! Likely this is a/the best route to go presently. We/others can, will fill in as time goes by (as it is wont to do)... or perhaps better, we will find useful links to other diagnostic tools.>
What I'd like to do beyond that, is to then take the phyla/classes that I'm familiar with and offer keys that would in some cases, extend to species level. Essentially, the main key would direct people to the right class, then they could either go to your articles for more information/further ID, or refer to the key for that class. Does that sound about like what you had in mind or were you thinking of something else entirely?
<It is indeed what I had in mind as well. B>
Thanks,
-Lynn
PS..I sure wish all Echinoderms had recognizable pentaramous symmetry. It's all good until you run into a 3 or 14 armed star...or a Cuke that most would associate with bilateral symmetry!
Re: Dichotomous Key    9/16/10
Sounds good, thanks Bob! I'll let you know when I have it ready. I figure I'll have you take a look at it, then once it's approved,
<?>
I'll tackle the photos/illustrations, and glossary. The very last task will be to come up with some instructions, but that shouldn't take long.
<This is really going to be FUN! And very useful>
Right now, I'm organizing all the similar vs. unique traits of the various categories. Most are pretty obvious and straightforward as to how to handle within the key. Others, like the issue of unrecognizable pentaramous symmetry in some sea stars (and Cukes in general) is throwing a monkey wrench into my plans. I'm going to have to figure out a few alternative routes for some of these critters!
<Mmm, yeah... and we've not even started talking re Thallophytes or microbes! Heeeeee!>
By the way, I got a much-needed laugh yesterday from your mention of Mothra in the Godzilla Bristleworm query.
<Chuckled m'self!>
I hadn't thought about that movie for ages. That and all the other 60's sci-fi/monster movies were my older brother's and my favorites when we were kids - Ghidrah, Them, Gorgo, The Deadly Mantis, the Monolith Monsters, Tarantula!...we saw them all and loved them.
<As blubbery and faux as they are/were, me too!>
Mothra was particularly funny because it was hard to swallow a giant caterpillar being too much of a match for Godzilla,
<Oh! What about Battra!?>
but he managed. Remember the two singing fairies that were carried around in a box?
<Faves>
Anyway, thanks for the laugh!
Take care,
-Lynn
<Trying to. B>

Re: Need an ID? Guideline 8/28/10
Thanks, Bob. I got a good start on the ID guideline project today but won't be able to pick it up again until Monday (busy weekend ahead).
<Ok>
As for the dichotomous key, my main question is where do you want me to jump in?
<Right now! Add to or take away from my paltry start!>
I know you've got a start on it, but am not sure what area I need to begin working on.
<Mmm, a couple line drawings of the major splits mentioned... Mmm, the beginning of our "Definitions/Terms" glossary...>
Or, now that you've had some time to think on this, is this something you really want to pursue right now?
<Bit by bit, yes>
It's definitely a heck of an undertaking.
<Until we get down/below the Class level taxonomically, I think we'll be fine... and then, there are references/existing keys we can borrow from, adapt/adopt>
Just so you know, it's okay with me either way. We can do it now, later, or a lot later!
Take care,
-Lynn
<Trying to! BobF>
Re: Need an ID? Guideline
Thanks, Bob. I got a good start on the ID guideline project today but won't be able to pick it up again until Monday (busy weekend ahead).
<Ok>
As for the dichotomous key, my main question is where do you want me to jump in?
<Right now! Add to or take away from my paltry start!>
<<Gotcha. I didn't know how far you'd gotten since then and didn't want to re-invent the wheel, so to speak!>>
>Was sort of waiting on your resp. in turn!<
I know you've got a start on it, but am not sure what area I need to begin working on.
<Mmm, a couple line drawings of the major splits mentioned... Mmm, the beginning of our "Definitions/Terms" glossary...>
<<Can do>>
>Mmm, how about we upload the later/est vers. onto WWM... keep a copy for ourselves to work on... Date it<
Or, now that you've had some time to think on this, is this something you really want to pursue right now?
<Bit by bit, yes>
<<Me as well. I've been working on posting info sheets at the other site, which seems to be going well, but there's so much more to be done...so many more organisms that could be, and should be, covered that's it's going to have to be a work in progress.
>Oh Shirley... I know, don't call you surely... you know it/this will never be 'done'<
I'd have to put everything in my life on hold in order to plow through it and even then it would take a daunting amount of time. In the meantime, there are other things needing to be done.
>Oh yes. Life, et cetera res<
The impetus behind getting the ID guidelines came after one too many queries with little more than "What is this?". That's something I should have taken care of long ago.>>
It's definitely a heck of an undertaking.
<Until we get down/below the Class level taxonomically, I think we'll be fine... and then, there are references/existing keys we can borrow from, adapt/adopt>
<<Sounds good. I'll get started as soon as I get these guidelines taken care of.>>
Just so you know, it's okay with me either way. We can do it now, later, or a lot later!
Take care,
-Lynn
<Trying to! BobF>
<<I hear ya! I've got so much going on right now, it's not even funny...and then there's the BB. Holy cow, that's a whole other topic eating away at me in between everything else. I hate to say it, but at this point, it's just going to have to get in line! As for this weekend, I've got a bunch going on but I'm going to tuck some fun in between! Hope you do too - Lynn>>
>First things first Lynn. B<

Re: ID Guidelines - Final Edit    9/7/10
Hi Bob,
<Lynn>
I've attached the last edit for both (I found a few typos that needed correcting). All the Guideline needs is a link to the chart inserted at the www.link location.
<Mmm, this isn't "linked"... Where?>
If possible, could you add a link to the top of the flowchart page showing where the Guideline page can be found? I thought about adding it to the chart itself but decided it would just add to the visual clutter.
<Agreed. It/this should come ahead/first>
The rest should be good to go. As far as how the pages are arranged, or how the photos are placed around the topics...go with whatever's easiest for you. It's fine as is, but if a different arrangement works better on the site page...go for it. That stuff's over my head, computer-wise. By the way, do you want me to Pando the photos to you?
<Will see if they just copy as you've placed them first>
If so, do you want them reduced to thumbnail size?
<Small for web use... likely fine as is>
Take care and thanks again,
-Lynn
<And you>