Ember tetra pathogen     10/22/18
Dear Crew,
<Amber>
I am hoping you can help me to diagnose what I believe to be a disease slowly killing off my ember tetras. I am wondering if it is Pleistophora, but all of the symptoms don't quite seem to match up with that. Anyway, before I get into it, here are the basics of the tank.
Planted 29g with Aqueon20 filter (with additional/better filtration media) and sponge filtration, kept at 78-80 degrees F. Water parameters are good and I do ~30% water changes once per week (sometimes it goes 2 weeks). I use soft, slightly acidic tap water that I treat with Seachem Prime. I have occasionally dosed the tank with Flourish Excel but generally don't add anything to the water except Prime for conditioning during water changes.
This tank has been set up for around 7 months.
The tank is currently stocked with:
9 ember tetras
3 Otocinclus
6 hockey stick Pencilfish
1 (Micro)Ctenopoma ansorgii
2 gold rams
1 large Amano shrimp
1 Nerite snail
I feed 1-2x per day. Most days they get a bit of Nutrafin Basix Staple Food and Nutrafin Bug Bites Cichlid Formula. Around 1-2x per week I feed them Hikari frozen brine shrimp and I also add about 1/2 of a Hikari algae wafer a few times per week (though I don't think the embers get much of that).
Over the past 7 months they have gotten Hikari frozen blood worms maybe 6x and freeze-dried blood worms maybe 20x (though they haven't gotten any blood worms in the past probably 1-2 months).
<Good>
The first fish I added to the tank were a few embers. Since then, I have added a few more, as well as the other listed occupants (more or less in the above listed order). Over the course of the past 7 months, I have lost 3 ember tetras but I have had no other illness or suspicious deaths in this tank (one ram got wedged and died behind the intake sponge on my HOB). I blamed the first ember death on stress or injury related to transfer between tanks. A few months later, I found another ember dead in the tank.
Everyone else seemed healthy, so I convinced myself this was just another 'fluke' death (pardon the pun). I was hoping there was no disease problem in my tank but these losses made me suspicious, so I have been keeping a close eye on it. I lost the third ember about 2 weeks ago. It started when I noticed that the stomach on one of my embers looked slightly misshapen, distended, and her organs seemed darker in colour than the other embers. I wasn't sure if I was imagining things. The next day, she looked worse. The bulge on her stomach was larger and was sliiighly fuzzy and whitish at the apex. It looked to me like some sort of internal problem was finally pushing its way through her skin. She was swimming around normally - and I assume eating - with the other fish. I decided she was going into quarantine. After chasing her around the tank for awhile, I finally caught her in a net, BUT when I first caught her, she was pinned against the glass a little bit. I was VERY gentle but apparently this pinning, or just the act of scooping her into a net, was enough to rupture the bulge in her stomach. I could not find whatever had ruptured out of her. I put her into a glass jar and expected her to die pretty quickly - she had a gaping hole in her stomach cavity. She continued to live for probably an hour or two before I euthanized her. Thinking back on the previous deaths, I am convinced there is a pattern here. All three had something funny going on with their stomachs. I don't remember many details from the first 2 deaths
other than some fuzziness/tissue damage to the stomach area and dark areas inside the stomach cavity. I have done some searching on WWM and what I am experiencing sounds VERY similar to the posted email 'Mystery ember tetra illness' from Lea on 8/25/12.
I am hoping you can help me figure out what is going on. I didn't get any pictures with this ember's stomach intact, but I took some after she died (first pic attached). I stored her in the fridge overnight and looked at her under a microscope the next day. Since I lost the majority of the 'growth', I wasn't sure what I would find, but I believe I have some images of whatever this pathogen is. The scale bars didn't export properly with the images when I saved them however, they are at 100x-200x magnification
and the images have not been cropped, just resized.
<Thank you for this useful info>
The first microscope image is wet-mounted without a cover slip. The focus is poor but this pic lets you see how spherical the objects are, as well as the black 'filaments' covering their surfaces. The second microscope image is of a cluster of similar objects wet-mounted between slides. Prior to squishing them, they were spherical and clustered together kind of like grapes. These ones did not have the back material surrounding them as some others did. If you zoom in, you can see how some of these spheres seem to be dividing. The third microscope image is of the black speck that is visible toward the tail of the tetra in the first image. It was hard to tell if this speck was embedded in the muscle tissue or just pushed toward the far end of the gut cavity. I dissected it out of the fish and wet mounted it. Prior to mounting, it seemed spherical and was completely covered in the same back filaments as some of the other objects were. It easily squished flat between slides, it was not hard or difficult to flatten. I think this image might have been zoomed in a bit more than the others, but this object was noticeably larger than the others. I have several more images if you would like to see them. I just didn't want to bog down your server with all of them at once. I scaled down the attached images as much as I could. Please let me know if the resolution is too low.
<A more highly resolved image would be useful>
I would also like to note that my Ctenopoma likes to sneak up on the embers and Pencilfish occasionally and bite their tails, but they seem to recover from these bites very quickly. I am working on an alternate housing solution for my Ctenopoma (I really don't want to give him away - he's such a character) I realize that the tail nipping may be exacerbating the situation with the gut pathogen but I don't think the two are directly related. Just wanted to share this as a further detail.
<African Leaffish, Ctenopoma species, will eat/inhale small-enough fishes>
I am not sure how or with what I should treat this tank. I have posted to fish lore and got some educated suggestions. I have also talked to Andrea at Aquarium101 (my local fish store) and she recommended that I contact you for advice. She said you have been amazing help with their Flowerhorn, Jiana, and her swim bladder illness.
I am dying to know what this pathogen is and if there is anything I can do to treat it. Also, if it is likely to spread to the other species in my tank. So far suggestions have been Praziquantel and Metronidazole, both of which I have but I have not treated the tank with either yet. I would very much appreciate your expert feedback.
Thank you very much,
Amber
<Have some ideas... but am going to ask Neale Monks here to respond first. Bob Fenner>

Re: Ember tetra pathogen     10/23/18
Thank you for your response! Looking forward to hearing more. I have attached higher resolution images this time. Hope that’s ok. Also wanted to point out that the bush fish is a Microctenopoma ansorgii. I wasn’t sure if the proper genus for this one was Microctenopoma or Ctenopoma.
<The former; and yes, I did see that it is this small species (to about 2") that you have. Even little, they do have large mouths and as you noted, are given to predatory behavior>
Sorry for any confusion on that point. First and second images are zoomed in, I think to 200x, from two of the previous images. The others are just higher resolution of previous images.
Amber
<Let's still wait on Neale's independent response. I am presently given to think the round objects may be eggs, the damage, losses here due to trauma. BobF>
Ember tetra pathogen     /Neale     10/23/18
Dear Crew,
<Amber,>
I am hoping you can help me to diagnose what I believe to be a disease slowly killing off my ember tetras. I am wondering if it is Pleistophora, but all of the symptoms don't quite seem to match up with that. Anyway, before I get into it, here are the basics of the tank.
<It may be Pleistophora, but this is indistinguishable from bacterial infections such as Flavobacterium infections. So to some degree you need to keep an open mind, even where Neon Tetra Disease seems likely.>
Planted 29g with Aqueon20 filter (with additional/better filtration media) and sponge filtration, kept at 78-80 degrees F. Water parameters are good and I do ~30% water changes once per week (sometimes it goes 2 weeks). I use soft, slightly acidic tap water that I treat with Seachem Prime. I have occasionally dosed the tank with Flourish Excel but generally don't add anything to the water except Prime for conditioning during water changes.
This tank has been set up for around 7 months.
The tank is currently stocked with:
9 ember tetras
3 Otocinclus
6 hockystick Pencilfish
1 (Micro)Ctenopoma ansorgii
<Nice fish!>
2 gold rams
1 large amano shrimp
1 Nerite snail
I feed 1-2x per day. Most days they get a bit of Nutrafin Basix Staple Food and Nutrafin Bug Bites Cichlid Formula. Around 1-2x per week I feed them Hikari frozen brine shrimp and I also add about 1/2 of a Hikari algae wafer a few times per week (though I don't think the embers get much of that).
Over the past 7 months they have gotten Hikari frozen blood worms maybe 6x and freeze-dried blood worms maybe 20x (though they haven't gotten any blood worms in the past probably 1-2 months).
<All sounds fine.>
The first fish I added to the tank were a few embers. Since then, I have added a few more, as well as the other listed occupants (more or less in the above listed order). Over the course of the past 7 months, I have lost 3 ember tetras but I have had no other illness or suspicious deaths in this tank (one ram got wedged and died behind the intake sponge on my HOB). I blamed the first ember death on stress or injury related to transfer between tanks. A few months later, I found another ember dead in the tank.
Everyone else seemed healthy, so I convinced myself this was just another 'fluke' death (pardon the pun). I was hoping there was no disease problem in my tank but these losses made me suspicious, so I have been keeping a close eye on it. I lost the third ember about 2 weeks ago.
<At this point I'd just give up with Ember Tetras for the time being. It might be that something about the tank, the water, or your maintenance regime isn't appropriate to the species. It might also be a 'bad batch' of them, and if you wait six months, or find another retailer, you might do better.>
It started when I noticed that the stomach on one of my embers looked slightly misshapen, distended, and her organs seemed darker in colour than the other embers. I wasn't sure if I was imagining things. The next day, she looked worse. The bulge on her stomach was larger and was sliiighly fuzzy and whitish at the apex. It looked to me like some sort of internal problem was finally pushing its way through her skin. She was swimming around normally - and I assume eating - with the other fish. I decided she was going into quarantine. After chasing her around the tank for awhile, I finally caught her in a net, BUT when I first caught her, she was pinned against the glass a little bit. I was VERY gentle but apparently this pinning, or just the act of scooping her into a net, was enough to rupture the bulge in her stomach. I could not find whatever had ruptured out of her. I put her into a glass jar and expected her to die pretty quickly - she had a gaping hole in her stomach cavity. She continued to live for probably an hour or two before I euthanized her. Thinking back on the previous deaths, I am convinced there is a pattern here. All three had something funny going on with their stomachs. I don't remember many details
from the first 2 deaths other than some fuzziness/tissue damage to the stomach area and dark areas inside the stomach cavity. I have done some searching on WWM and what I am experiencing sounds VERY similar to the posted email 'Mystery ember tetra illness' from Lea on 8/25/12.
<You might try deworming, using something like Prazi Pro.>
I am hoping you can help me figure out what is going on. I didn't get any pictures with this ember's stomach intact, but I took some after she died (first pic attached). I stored her in the fridge overnight and looked at her under a microscope the next day. Since I lost the majority of the 'growth', I wasn't sure what I would find, but I believe I have some images of whatever this pathogen is. The scale bars didn't export properly with the images when I saved them however, they are at 100x-200x magnification and the images have not been cropped, just resized.
<Nice pictures!>
The first microscope image is wet-mounted without a cover slip. The focus is poor but this pic lets you see how spherical the objects are, as well as the black 'filaments' covering their surfaces. The second microscope image is of a cluster of similar objects wet-mounted between slides. Prior to squishing them, they were spherical and clustered together kind of like grapes. These ones did not have the back material surrounding them as some others did. If you zoom in, you can see how some of these spheres seem to be dividing.
<Does sound like some sort of protozoan parasite. If that's the case, something along the lines of Metronidazole would be the better bet.
Together with an antibiotic such as a Nitrofuran, this combo tends to cover a wide range of non-worm parasites.>
The third microscope image is of the black speck that is visible toward the tail of the tetra in the first image. It was hard to tell if this speck was embedded in the muscle tissue or just pushed toward the far end of the gut cavity. I dissected it out of the fish and wet mounted it. Prior to mounting, it seemed spherical and was completely covered in the same back filaments as some of the other objects were. It easily squished flat between slides, it was not hard or difficult to flatten. I think this image might have been zoomed in a bit more than the others, but this object was noticeably larger than the others. I have several more images if you would like to see them. I just didn't want to bog down your server with all of
them at once. I scaled down the attached images as much as I could. Please let me know if the resolution is too low.
<They're fine.>
I would also like to note that my Ctenopoma likes to sneak up on the embers and Pencilfish occasionally and bite their tails, but they seem to recover from these bites very quickly. I am working on an alternate housing solution for my Ctenopoma (I really don't want to give him away - he's such a character) I realize that the tail nipping may be exacerbating the situation with the gut pathogen but I don't think the two are directly related. Just wanted to share this as a further detail.
<Microctenopoma ansorgii is a lovely fish, and has a fair sized appetite, so maybe offer a little more food? Should be fine with robust tetras, though Embers are probably a bit small.>
I am not sure how or with what I should treat this tank. I have posted to fish lore and got some educated suggestions. I have also talked to Andrea at Aquarium101 (my local fish store) and she recommended that I contact you for advice. She said you have been amazing help with their Flowerhorn, Jiana, and her swim bladder illness. I am dying to know what this pathogen is and if there is anything I can do to treat it. Also, if it is likely to spread to the other species in my tank. So far suggestions have been
Praziquantel and Metronidazole, both of which I have but I have not treated the tank with either yet. I would very much appreciate your expert feedback.
<Either or even both worth a shot. Metronidazole would be my first choice though.>
Thank you very much,
Amber
<Cheers, Neale.>