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Mbu puffer 4/15/20
Good morning. I had emailed you guys a few weeks back when I had just
purchased a Mbu puffer.
<I do recall, Sony.>
He/she is about 3-4 inches. Color is great, swimming a lot, eating
everything. Frozen clams, cocked crawfish, freeze dried krill (all soaked it
vita chem) and live ghost shrimp. About 4 days a go he stopped eating and he
doesn't swim around as much.
<Eating comes naturally to pufferfish. If they refuse food, always assume
it's environmental before you do anything else. As you probably know,
puffers are more sensitive to medications than many fish, so you want to
avoid medicating where possible. While not especially sensitive to water
chemistry variation, puffers do require good water quality, in particular,
the usual zero ammonia and nitrite, but also low nitrate (certainly below 40
mg/l, and ideally below 20 mg/l) as well as high oxygen levels.>
I put him in a box to see what his poops might be or if parasites came out I
could see before another fish tried to eat it. Also it was meant to medicate
his food and allow him to eat it before another fish tried to.
<Mbu aren't really sociable fish, so there's really no point keeping them
with tankmates. Your life will be immeasurably easier if you keep them on
their own. Reduces the risk of either infecting the other with parasites,
obviously, but also makes treatment easier.>
I had asked you guys a few weeks back if I should medicate him/her with
PraziPro even though there was no indication to. Well I started the
treatment 3 days ago when the personality changed.
<Why are you assuming intestinal worms? Praziquantel treats worms. That's
all. Signs of worms include loss of weight despite eating, evidence of worms
or their eggs in the faeces, or even visible worms emerging from the vent.
While worms are fairly common parasites, they rarely explain sudden changes
in behaviour and/or rapid decline in health. Indeed, wild fish likely carry
a few worms quite often, and the worms are normally kept in check by a
healthy immune system, so don't cause any health issues.>
First I changed the water 60% and then started the treatment. In these 4
days he still hasn’t eaten.
<See above. You have provided no information on the environment. Let's
recap. Tetraodon Mbu is a giant species from deep rivers and large lakes.
While your juvenile is still relatively tiny, he looks a lot bigger than a
Corydoras in your photographs, so I'm going to assume a standard length of
at least 12 cm/5 inches. Aquarium size for such a specimen should be at
least 250 litres (66 US gallons) and optimally at least 350 litres (100 US
gallons). Water chemistry should be middling, between 5-15 degrees dH, and
around pH 7. Water quality must be excellent, with no ammonia or nitrite,
and the nitrate should be as low as practical. Water turnover rate should be
very high because these puffers are highly sensitive to low oxygen levels --
I'd suggest a water turnover rate of at least 8, and preferably 10 times the
volume of the tank per hour. In other words, if the tank is 66 US gallons,
you'd need a filter with a pump rated at about 528 to 660 gallons/hour. If
your aquarium doesn't match these criteria, that's the first thing to fix.>
I’ve tried works and frozen krill. I’ve tried garlic soaked clam. He won’t
eat.
<Appetite returns when stress is removed. The fish doesn't look obviously
sick, but he does look dark and stressed. Review the tank, and act
accordingly.>
Stomach is slightly sunken in. Color is still great and only poop that was
suspicious I’m including in this post. What should I do?
I’ve done water change. Salt and PraziPro. All 4 days ago. -Sony
<Hope this helps. Do, please, read about this extremely demanding species.
Randomly medicating if you have no idea of the problem will achieve little,
potentially do harm. A single course of Praziquantel isn't a bad idea, and
shouldn't do any harm, but this isn't always the case with fish medications
-- copper and formalin being especially toxic to puffers. Cheers, Neale.>
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Baby Mbu puffer /RMF
3/14/20
Hey so I got a Mbu puffer 3-4 inches, he’s eating and pooping,
swimming around the tank chasing ghost shrimp. Just getting to know
more about this fish. I know they tend to carry parasites. So I
can’t tell if the underside of him is food or parasites and I should
start treating.
<Mmm; I personally would hold off on carte blanche treatment (for
parasites) here. Rationale? It's too easy to do more damage with
exposure to vermifuges, protozoacides than it's worth>
Also what’s your opinion on PimaFix & MelaFix? Is it good to use?
<These Melaleuca plant extracts have some bactericidal action (so
does alcohol, soap...), but rarely treat anything effectively. In
short, IMO/E, they are placebos at best. DO just search these API
products by name on WWM>
If you want to see a better clearer video of the fish to get a
better idea, you can click this link.
https://youtu.be/vkGi-QabmxQ
<Ah, thank you. Appears to be a fine, healthy specimen>
Thank you in advance.
-Sony
<Cheers, Bob Fenner>
Baby Mbu puffer /Neale 3/14/20
Hey so I got a Mbu puffer 3-4 inches, he’s eating and pooping,
swimming around the tank chasing ghost shrimp. Just getting to know
more about this fish.
<Uhh... you do realise they get gigantic? As in, the size of a small
dog? Do read:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/fwsubwebindex/mbupuffer.htm
Unless you're a millionaire, the chances are you won't be able to
afford the literally huge tank (1000 gallons) they need as an adult.
While fabulous fish, and I applaud your excellent taste, these fish
are very difficult to keep properly. Most end up being passed onto
public aquaria. The dental work they require is just one of many
challenges ahead of you.>
I know they tend to carry parasites.
<They can do, and deworming isn't a bad idea. Levamisole or
Praziquantel are perhaps the ones most often used. But most parasite
risk comes from people feeding them live foods, particularly feeder
fish. Do not do this! Cannot be stressed how dumb the use of feeder
fish is. It's an unnecessary risk for most pet fish. Live shrimp and
crayfish should be safer, but neither is 100% safe, so if you can
use marine fish and shellfish (which won't have parasites likely to
survive in freshwater fish) you're doing the right thing.
Gamma-irradiated frozen foods, as used for marines, are the ideal.>
So I can’t tell if the underside of him is food or parasites and I
should start treating.
Also what’s your opinion on PimaFix & MelaFix?
<Unsuitable for a family audience.>
Is it good to use?
<No.>
If you want to see a better clearer video of the fish to get a
better idea, you can click this link.
https://youtu.be/vkGi-QabmxQ
<Does indeed look adorable.>
Thank you in advance.
-Sony
<Cheers, Neale.>
Re: Baby Mbu puffer 3/15/20
I just ordered an 9x3x3 tank. I should be good for a while I
believe.
<For a good while, yes, but keep track of nitrate, as that's the
useful benchmark here. Anything above 20 mg/l is bad for these fish,
especially as they mature. Also observe behaviour. It's pretty clear
when they're bored or swimming up and down at the same spot all the
time.>
1000 gallons is ideal I’m a little shy but I might okay I think.
Yeah I did a lot of research prior to buying him. Most places said
500 gallons so I went more than that to be safe.
<Wise.>
I’m definitely not a millionaire not even close just a crazy person.
<Maybe a little fish crazy, eh? Not a bad thing: so am I!>
I would never feed feeder fish to my fish.
<Yay!>
I’m currently buying human grade frozen clams, Snow crabs, crawfish,
frozen mussels, and ghost shrimp (pet store)for him. I’m also trying
to grow snails in a separate tank for him.
<All sounds good. Minimise mussels and crustaceans, unless you use a
vitamin supplement. Both these are high in thiaminase. Squid,
cockles, and most white fish fillet (including tilapia and Pollack)
are thiaminase-free.>
I bought PraziPro to treat Incase it is parasites but I have no sign
that he is infected yet.
Thank you for your response.
-Sony
<Most welcome, Neale.>
Re: Baby Mbu puffer (RMF, any further commentary on
Melafix?)<<Done>> 3/15/20
I bought vita chem to soak the clams in, but I have access to
syringes and will prob inject the food prior to feeding once he
starts eating more shelled food to maintain his beak. For puffers
it’s hard not to feed bivalves.
<And no reason to stop. It's specifically the Mussels, i.e., family
Mytilidae, you need to avoid (Mytilus and Perna species are the ones
on the food trade). Clams, on the other hand, are good, including
the widely sold Asian Hard Clam, Meretrix lyrata, and the Cockle,
Cerastoderma edule. Both of these are perfectly fine, as are most
other clams you're likely to see in the food trade. Scallops and
Oysters are also good, if rather expensive.>
What else are my options? Crawfish and snails?
<Pretty much. Bear in mind that wild Pufferfish will be consuming a
wide range of animal and plant foods, with freshwater species likely
to consume aquatic insects, worms, algae, and probably small fish
and carrion when the opportunity arises. Certainly, whole lancefish
(easily obtained frozen, for marine predatory fish) will be consumed
readily. There's really no practical way to prevent the teeth from
overgrowing, because feeding puffers nothing but crunchy foods
quickly becomes expensive. Still, if you're using a vitamin
supplement, then thiaminase-rich foods like whole frozen shrimp
become a lot safer.>
Do you recommend any specific vitamin brand?
<Kent Marine Zoe Marine certainly contains Vitamin B1/Thiamine, so
is a good pick if we're worried about thiaminase in certain foods.>
I was searching for vitamin b1 or thiamine bottles but it was vague.
Even vita chem doesn't say those ingredients.
I did read the article about Thiaminase on WWM
<Cool.>
-Sony
<Cheers, Neale.>
Mbu puffer tank 8/23/19
Hi
<Hello!>
For the last 2 months I have been cycling a 2000 litre aquarium for a
mbu puffer (7ft x 4ft).
<A good starting point, but be aware of how big these fish can become.
Some would argue even 2000 litres is less than ideal.>
I am finally collecting the mbu next week and just tested my water :
Ammonia <0.05
Nitrite 0.025
<These two really need to be zero.>
Nitrate 5
I know sometimes the test kits aren’t exact but I’m worried about the
nitrite of .025 but should that be fine?
<Hard to say without knowing the brand of test kit or even how good you
are judging the colours. Dip strip test kits for example are generally
regarded as imprecise, and while this margin of error would be adequate
for bog standard community fish, it might be risky with sensitive
species such as a Mbu Puffer. I would be tempted to try the nitrite kit
at least against one or more alternative test kits. Your local retailer
may well offer this service, especially if they deal with expensive fish
such as marines. I'd also check your values against your tap water. For
example if you have neutralised (via water conditioner) any chloramine
in the tap water, a test kit can register that as ammonia, even though
it is harmless.>
I do 30% water change 3 times a week
<Sounds good. If the Mbu Puffer is relatively small now, say, 10 cm
long, and kept in a 2000 litre tank with regular water changes, any
slight backlog in ammonia and nitrite processing by your biological
filter should fix itself over the next couple of weeks. "Fish-less"
cycling methods are a bit unreliable, so while the filter may be more or
less mature, it might be a week or two before it really beds down
properly. Given the size of the tank, and the frequency of water
changes, you should be fine with a small fish, much as you can finish
off the cycling process of a community tank with a few Danios and not
expect any major problems. Still, keep an open mind, and regularly test
the water for at least the first month, and thereafter, at least weekly
until you're 100% sure everything is working as it should.>
Thanks!
<Most welcome. Neale.>
Re: Mbu puffer tank 8/23/19
Thanks Neale,
<Most welcome.>
It is the JBL full master test kit.
<Should be decent.>
The ammonia of <0.05 is the lowest that is on the results pad.
<So can you assume it's zero?>
The nitrite is the second lowest, but it is very hard to tell the
difference in colours.
<Indeed. I'd still compare and contrast with a second kit, even if just
the once at your retailer.>
The tank itself has a large in built filter (it runs the whole way down
the side of the tank, so 4 ft by 2ft by about 10 inches of bio media).
It was not fishless cycling, it has had 3 baby giant gourami (about 3
inches) since week 2, though they are now about 5-6 inches. I plan to
rehome them into my 1000 litre tank.
<Understood. Filter really should be mature then. Only things you might
check are whether water current sufficient (remember, you want a filter
turnover rate of something like 8 times the volume of the tank per hour)
and whether the selection of media chosen are appropriate (i.e., more
biological media, less chemical, especially carbon, which would probably
be pointless here).>
The initial plan was to keep the gourami in the big tank until I found a
mbu of a decent size, I didn't want to put a small mbu in as I hear they
can be very unstable until a decent size.
<Possibly, but I think this is more to do with people tending to try and
keeping juveniles in very small tanks, and keeping them in such small
tanks for far too long, postponing the necessary upgrade. So net result
is a juvenile in increasingly poor environmental conditions. In and of
themselves, Puffers aren't delicate fish by any means, and it's notable
that in marine fishkeeping, they're often regarded as among the toughest
fish around. I certainly had far more trouble with Neon Tetras than any
pufferfish species!>
I know it is hard to find MBU's of a decent size so wanted to make sure
the tank was up and running, just happens that the opportunity to buy
this one has come up.
<Correct. But even so, I'd tend to recommend the 40 cm Tetraodon
species, such as Tetraodon lineatus, for people who want bigger puffers
simply because their size demands are so much less. There are also some
lovely marine species of similar size, like Arothron hispidus, that are
lively, easy to keep, and quite peaceful. But if you're dead-set on
Tetraodon mbu, you seem to be going around it in the right way, and have
realistic expectations of what's needed. I'll direct you to an old
article on this website from an experienced Tetraodon mbu owner, here:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/mbupuffer.htm
While lovely fish, they aren't for the faint-hearted (or the financially
challenged).>
The mbu is about 9-10 inches.
<And should get to well over twice that, aquarium specimens tending to
level off around the 50-60 cm mark. Much bigger specimens have been
reported in the wild, but I've never seen aquarium specimens bigger than
60 cm.>
Please can you advice whether you think it should be ok or best to
avoid?
<See above. They are interesting pets, and if you have the space, time
and money to set them up with the right tank from the get-go, they
aren't difficult to keep. Your biggest challenge is keeping nitrate
relatively low, especially if your tap water has high nitrate levels to
start with.
Ideally, nitrate should be less than 20 mg/l, but certainly below 40
mg/l.
Other than running out of space, owners often run into the problem of
over-long teeth. In the UK there's some debate about the legality of
performing "tooth cutting" procedures on pufferfish. But certainly make
yourself aware of how to try to keep your Puffer's teeth worn down as
best you can, and if you can't find a vet capable of cutting the teeth,
find out how to do it yourself. Obviously as the fish becomes so much
larger than the average pufferfish, sedating and handling the fish
becomes that much more complicated. I've used cuticle clippers on small
pufferfish species, and clove oil to sedate them, but for the bigger
species, power tools may be needed:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/ca/volume_2/cav2i1/puffer_dentistry/puffer2.htm
This sort of procedure is probably well outside what the British
veterinary community would consider acceptable for untrained people,
given the distress it will cause the fish. So realistically, while I'm
happy to recommend cuticle clippers for the literally 10-second job of
nipping off the ends of South American Pufferfish teeth, adult Tetraodon
mbu will probably need a trip to the vet at some point if their teeth
aren't kept worn down naturally.>
Thanks.
<Most welcome. Cheers, Neale.>
Re: Mbu puffer tank 8/30/19
Hi Neale
<Nathaniel.>
By way of update, the mbu is now in and doing great.
<Cool.>
I have invested in an automatic water change system that is being
installed next week. That way he will have 30% water changes 365 days a
year.
<Wow! Luxury, indeed.>
I plan to set it to do 5% every 4 hours, that way the Mbu will barely
even notice the change taking place so will keep stress to an absolute
minimum.
<Every 5 hours sounds overkill, but certainly being able to do 5% even
daily should ensure really good water quality. Use a test kit: so long
as nitrate stays below 20 mg/l, you're doing great. Doing excessive
water changes is a waste of water, unless of course that water is being
put to good use, e.g., to maintain a pond or water meadow. If it's just
going down the drain it's expensive and wasteful, in my opinion.>
I have so far put in 30 guppies in but intend to increase that number
significantly as the filter catches up. The guppies will be his only
tank mates.
<For a while, at least!>
From my research these are the best tank mates for a mbu as he is
peaceful enough to not eat him and move slowly so adds a calming
presence to the tank so as to help keep him chilled.
<Indeed; and often Guppies are used for exactly this in public aquaria.
Very small fish are often ignored by big fish, but do provide that
useful "dither fish" effect.>
My question is, male guppies do look better than females, but I am aware
it is usually advised to keep a 2:1 ratio female to male. In a tank of
2000 litre with a 30 sq ft foot print + a group of 100+ guppies, is 2:1
necessary? Would 50:50 work?
<Academic, to be honest. After a couple generations you'll have hundreds
of immature Guppies (some of the adults will likely get eaten) and
likely a more or less 50/50 ratio because of that. Colouration will be
difficult to ensure, because unless you can guarantee the females are
virgin females of a specific variety, they'll likely revert to more or
less wild Guppy colouration after a couple generations of
cross-breeding.>
Thanks as always.
<No problem. Cheers, Neale.>
Re: Mbu puffer tank 8/30/19
Thanks!
<Most welcome. Neale.>
Re: Mbu puffer tank
Hi Neale,
<Hello Nate,>
By way of update,
The MBU arrived and is settled and was doing really well. Eating well
and water quality is going well ( I followed your advice to use the
automatic water change system to only a little bit each day).
<Glad he's happy.>
I have been feeding just a few clams on the half shell each day to
ensure he is not overfed. On Tuesday this week I was away and asked my
wife to feed him. Without guidance she kept feeding him until he stopped
(I understand she fed around 10-15 clams!!). He has not been right
since.
<Indeed. This is more common than you'd expect. When they overeat,
Puffers struggle to swim and will sit at the bottom until the food has
been passed through.>
He has been sitting on the bottom not swimming much at all. He has shown
some interest in food but not like he was doing and he seems to have a
bit of poo constantly hanging out. (it looks like normal poo not like
internal worms related, I am not concerned re worms as the person I
bought him off had done multiple rounds of different worming medications
and he shows now obvious signs).
<Understood.>
I thought he'd be alright after a few days but he's still sulking a lot.
<First thing is do a decent water change. Overfeeding will spike ammonia
and nitrite, and longer term, raise nitrate. Tetraodon mbu is fairly
sensitive to nitrate, so ensure good clean water first. Next up, kick up
aeration and oxygenation, if nothing else, by lowering the waterline an
inch or two so there's more splashing. This will drive out CO2 and
increase dissolved O2. Finally, don't feed him!>
Any advice? will he just ride it out?
<Eventually, yes. Meantime, remind your wife that fish don't eat a lot,
and little fish can go two weeks, easy, without food, and large fish
(like an adult Mbu) probably a month or more.>
Thanks.
<Cheers, Neale.>
