FAQs on Freshwater Substrates
2
Related Articles: Freshwater Substrates, Nice
bottoms; Choosing the right substrate for your
aquarium by Neale Monks, Freshwater Deep Sand Beds
Work by Deirdre Kylie, Setting up a
Freshwater Aquarium, Tips for
Beginners,
Related FAQs: Freshwater Substrates 1,
FAQs on: FW Substrate Selection,
FW Substrate Physical
Properties, FW Substrate
Chemical Properties, FW Substrate
Amounts & Placement, FW
Substrate Changing, Moving, Adding To, FW Substrate Cleaning, FW Substrate Issues,
FW
DSBs,
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Ceramic tile as bare bottom
6/15/19
Hello Crew,
<Bill>
I have a FW 240g display tank, 400g total volume, including sumps and
wet-dry. In the DT, I want to replace the 1/2” layer of gravel substrate
with impervious ceramic tile. This will provide the cleanliness benefits
of bare bottom, but still allow for a more pleasing aesthetic. Do you
think there are toxicity issues with the tile? If not,...
<IF the tile is sufficiently fired; no problem/s>
The bottom dwellers in the tank are ~30 Botia (angelicus and striata)
and 8 Synodontis multipunctatus. In the tank, there are dozens of caves,
rocks, logs, and it is heavily plastic-planted. Will the bottom
dwellers, especially the Botia, be disconcerted by not having gravel to
route (sp?) around in?
<I do think they are better off with gravel/sand substrate... And would
not personally switch to the tile. If this were a temporary situation
(e.g. passing at a wholesalers), my opinion would be different; but
substrates do many (good) things for a system, its life.>
Thanks!!
Bill
<Welcome. Bob Fenner>
Substrate for my fresh Water refugium
1/10/17
The
<The? Is there previous correspondence?>
substrate is made of organic potting mix (no fertilizers, at
least as written on a bag)
<I'd be testing... by soaking, perhaps boiling a teaspoon or two in some
water... testing the liquid>
- about 2 inch thick,
<?! This is a BUNCH of material; too likely to "float out"... a mess.
I'd be mixing the soil with fine gravel...>
.5 inch of fine gravel op top of soil and 1-1.5 inch of smooth white
sand (not aragonite) Do you have a tip,
<A tip? I'd be doing more searching here... on WWM, the Krib... Diana
Walstad's works; maybe Takashi Amano. What you have done here so far?...
Not viable>
I set up a fresh water refugium for plants and fry. I bought a bag of
organic potting mix from Menards and put it in the middle chamber and it
just floats.
<Oh yes; assuredly>
Above is from a blog I got from your site and read the same from others.
<Can't tell what is lifted without quotation marks, notes... Maybe have
someone else read what you send out ahead of time to assure it makes
sense.
Bob Fenner>
Clown Pleco substrate safety question
8/28/16
Good evening,
<Jennifer,>
I've found myself in a dilemma after following the advice of a local
fish supply store (with a good reputation) and purchasing a Clown Pleco
for my ex-Betta tank.
<Do double check what species you actually got. The "true" Clown Plec is
a Panaque species called Panaque maccus (sometimes called Panaqolus
maccus).
It's a herbivore more than anything else. It isn't fussy about the
substrate because it prefers to spend time on rocks and especially
bogwood.
However, a lot of aquarists (and some older books) use this Clown Plec
name for a Peckoltia species, Peckoltia vittata. Like all Peckoltia,
this species is a micro carnivore that roots about for worms and such.
This species will be more upset by the substrate if it can't dig easily.
PlanetCatfish.com has nice photos of the two species if you need help
telling them apart.>
My Betta had passed away after 4 years and I hated to get rid of the
mature 5 gal tank, but wasn't ready for another Betta so soon. The store
convinced me Clown Plecos stayed small and would do fine in a small
tank. Ha! I now
know this size tank is inadequate for him for many reasons, so I want to
move him out of there before it stunts his growth.
<Understood. Both the catfish mentioned are relatively small, around 8
cm/3 inches or so in length. The Panaque species is marginally bigger
perhaps, but there's not a lot in it. Anything upwards of 20 gallons is
fine, and you could probably get away with a 15-gallon tank at a pinch.>
The problem is I only have one other tank option and I'm not sure the
substrate will be ok for him. I've read some conflicting information
online. The current 5 gal tank has a nice sandy bottom (smooth sand, not
the sharp kind I've read about) with driftwood and he really seems to
like it.
<Panaque species are wood-eaters, and will spend all their time, if they
can, on bogwood, rasping away. They also consume vegetables like
courgette/zucchini, as well as algae wafers and the odd bit of something
meaty.>
My other tank is a 75 gal planted tank with large pieces of driftwood
with lots of places to hide from the 2 goldfish occupants. But the
substrate is Seachem's Fluorite gravel.
<Not a major problem for Panaque maccus. As noted, this catfish prefers
to stay on solid surfaces, especially bogwood, and rarely comes down
onto the substrate except to eat things like algae wafers put out for
it.>
It doesn't seem sharp to the touch, but it's not really as smooth as
other traditional gravels, so I'm worried it isn't a safe fit for the
Pleco. I hope I'm wrong because otherwise I think he'd really love the
tank. I'd appreciate any advice you can offer. Thank you in advance for
your time!
Sincerely,
Jennifer
<Hope this helps, Neale.>
Re: Clown Pleco substrate safety question
9/5/16
Good evening, Neale.
<Jennifer,>
Thank you very much for the reply. It has helped ease my worries! After
researching the two species you mentioned on PlanetCatfish.com, I found
I do indeed have the true Panaque maccus Clown Pleco. Although I don't
see my
little guy much during the day, when I do glimpse him, he's always
rasping on the driftwood. And he leaves numerous piles of "wood dust"
all over the sandy bottom. It still amazes me how much debris such a
tiny thing can create so quickly!
<For the last 20 years I've looked after one of his bigger relatives,
Panaque nigrolineatus, a truly wonderful fish. But this thing poops like
it's an Olympic Sport! Absolutely standard for the genus, as you've
seen, but since it's mostly wood chippings, the effect on water quality
is nil.
Probably a useful soil improver too, but can be unsightly, and easily
siphoned out, or "spot cleaned" with a turkey baster. Do have a read
here:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/fwsubwebindex/panaqueart.htm
Plenty of info on this really interesting group of catfishes.>
We are undergoing a renovation project (hence the reason for my delayed
reply), but as soon as that is over, I will be moving him to the 75 gal
tank where he will hopefully enjoy many happy years.
<Should do. Panaque are notoriously sensitive the first few weeks, and
getting them feeding well is crucial. But once settled they are VERY
hardy and long-lived.>
Thank you, again!
Sincerely, Jennifer
<Most welcome! Neale.>
Re: Questions about second hand tank. Now FW
substrates 6/16/12
Thank you so much for your <sic> advise.
<Welcome.>
I came to you guys a couple years back (it was you Neale who gave be
Betta tips), and it helped my fish live for 2 years (never was able to
diagnose what took him under, he showed no signs of age-color-loss, but
his body was curling near the end of his life). One thing I wanted
to know a little more about was use of sand as substrate- scouring the
net yield mixed results, and I am curious about pros and cons.
<Do read:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/fwsubwebindex/nicebottoms.htm
In short, the positive aspects of sand are that burrowing and digging
fish like better, it's more realistic for many biotopes (e.g., the
Amazon), and to some degree it's less likely to get dirty than gravel
because muck can't sink downwards into the sand. On the negative side,
because the muck doesn't sink into it like it does with gravel, any dirt
is more obvious, so you need good filtration and regular tank cleans to
keep the aquarium looking smart. Sand can also be pushed into filter
inlets if the inlets are too low down (or your fish kick the sand up
into the water column).
Finally, sand tends to be lighter in colour than gravel, and in the
absence of overhead shade, such as that provided by plants, your fish
may appear more washed out in colour than usual.>
Again, thank you for helping me out. If you guys have a Facebook page, I
will be sure to give it a like and spread the word.
<I believe we do.>
Its great to get solid answers from real folks online when the net is
full of false info and scam artists. You guys are true pros- keep up the
good work!
Steve
<Thanks for the kind words. Cheers, Neale.>
Black Mollies and "Pea gravel"
12/4/10
Hello:
<Hello Judy.>
I was wondering if it is ok to keep no more than three female black
mollies in a 20 gallon long with no other fish???
<Certainly doable. Assuming these are Shortfin Mollies, they should
be okay, especially if you added a wee bit of salt to take the edge off
any nitrate toxicity, nitrate, almost as much as soft water, being the
thing
that stresses Mollies when kept in small aquaria. Aim for 2-3
grammes/litre.>
Also I have a question about aquarium gravel. The other day we got a 20
pound bag of "pea gravel" for the garden at the hardware
store. I was going to use some it for aquarium gravel, but there are
all these little sand particles all through it, and I was thinking that
may not be good for an undergravel filter. Maybe I should just buy
straight aquarium gravel from the fish store.
<Garden gravel is usually fine, and what I use all the time.
Provided it is sold as "pond safe", it should be
safe.>
I can rinse of some of the sand, but it is impossible to get it all.
Would this affect the undergravel filter?? Thank you
<A little sand won't do any harm, but obviously the more crud
underneath the undergravel filter plate, the less water will flow
through it, so yes, you need to rinse the gravel as best you
can.>
Judy
<Cheers, Neale.>
Re: More re: Removing silicone (RMF, anything to
add?), now substrates, learning to use WWM 9/29/10
Oh, had another question I meant to ask. I'm intrigued about
this sand idea of yours. I think it would look so much nicer than
the painted rocks. What type of sand do I get? Play sand? Or do I
need some sort of special pre-cleaned sand or something?
Amanda
<... Mmm, please read here:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/fwsubstrates.htm
and the linked files above. BobF>
Re: More re: Removing silicone... and sand
again
Thanks, Neale! I got impatient and did the test fill last night.
It had been 24 hours. Used the GE 1* W&D. SUCCESS!!!! :D My
very first repair job and no leaks!!
<Well done!>
Granted this has to have been a much easier repair than an all
glass aquarium, and I also have the benefit of water pressure
pushing the joint tighter instead of threatening to pop the
seam.
<Indeed.>
I've been looking at sand, and I think play sand will be the
best I can afford as I'll need over 50lbs of it.
<Many people have indeed used play sand, pool filter sand, and
various other types of sand.>
I see it mentioned as safe on many sites, do you concur? It also
looks like Natalie (if memory serves) uses it regularly?
Amanda
<The bottom line is that is if it is [a] non-calcareous and
[b] smooth rather than sharp (technical terms that mean precisely
what they sound like) then any sand should be fine in an
aquarium. You can test the lime-content of sand easily enough
yourself by adding some vinegar and seeing if the sand fizzes; if
it does, then it's not non-calcareous and will raise the
carbonate hardness and pH over time. That may or may not be a
deal breaker depending on the types of fish you're keeping.
As for sharpness, if it feels smooth and silky rather than
abrasive, then it's probably smooth sand, and therefore
unlikely to scratch burrowing or bottom-dwelling fish. I have to
admit that I resolutely stick to recommending only horticultural
smooth silica sand precisely because you can guarantee it'll
be lime-free and non-abrasive. Other types of sand may or may not
be safe, but there's no copper-bottomed guarantee I can offer
you via e-mail. For what it's worth, a 25 kilo (~50 lb) bag
of smooth silver sand from my local garden centre costs about
£4, or about $6. Whatever sand you plan to use, be
sure to clean it thoroughly before use. Cheers, Neale.>
Re: More re: Removing silicone... chatting
Oh, wow! Thanks for the tip on the silica sand and the lightning
fast response!
<No problem.>
There is a nursery just 2 miles from my house. I'll check it
out.
<Cool.>
Right now I have 2 red flame Gourami, 2 zebra Danios, 2 mollies
and a sunburst wag platy. I plan to add red wag platies (wow is
their color amazing!) over time once the bigger tank has cycled
properly. I'll be using my Penguin Mini as well as my new
Penguin 200 in the big one for a while to assist in bacteria
growth before moving the mini back to the smaller tank and then
getting some GloFish for that tank. No telling where I'll go
from there. I'm so excited to get this new one going!
Who'd have ever thought my
son coming home from daddy's with a 12" goldfish would
kick off such a passion. :D I got a whopping 3 hour notice on
that massive goldfish.
Fortunately I was able to convince the junior homo sapiens that
"Nemo" would be much happier back in his pond.
<Quite so. Goldfish generally make quite poor aquarium fish
unless given really big tanks. Do review the needs of these
tropical fish of yours.
Mollies tend to be finicky fish if kept in plain freshwater,
though hard, basic water helps a good deal. Dwarf Gouramis are
ridden with viruses and bacterial infections, so I tend to
recommend people avoid them in favour of Banded and Thick-Lipped
Gouramis (Colisa fasciata and Colisa labiosa) which are both much
hardier and long-lived than Colisa lalia. If Danios are your
thing, I'd nudge you towards Danios, Platies, Peppered or
Bronze Corydoras, and perhaps something like Flag Acara for the
midwater: all of these are healthiest if kept slightly on the
cool side, 22-24 C/72-75 F being ideal.>
Amanda
<Cheers, Neale.>
Re: More re: Removing silicone, more chatting...
bb-referral please
Had to look up the Flag Acara and Corys,
<In fact almost all Corydoras will work, the exceptions being
Corydoras sterbai which prefers warmer water. Acaras are cichlids
that tend to prefer slightly cooler conditions than the average
tropical fish, with the Flag Acara and Keyhole Acara being very
peaceful community fish. The Port Acara isn't as pretty, but
extremely hardy, even bullet-proof, and becomes very
tame.>
but I think I could be happy with that assortment.
<We aim to please.>
Will definitely keep that in mind as I add fish. Thanks yet
again! :D Will be going for platies and Danios first. ;)
<Good move. Do watch the Danios though: they can be bullies,
and will nip smaller species like White Cloud Mountain Minnows.
Zebras and GloFish are the same thing species-wise, so they get
along okay. Pearl Danios are a good choice too. But if you hunt
about, there are some cracking species out there, for example
Leopard Danios, Glowlight Danios, Ocelot Danios and Queen
Danios.>
Amanda
<Cheers, Neale.>
Re Silica Sand, was Removing silicone 01/10/10
I tried one of the local nurseries today and the guy acted like
he didn't know what I was talking about. The one closest to
my home closes before I get home from work. Will try them
Saturday.
<When searching in Google I did find that the names
"silver sand" and "silica sand" do seem to be
more in the UK than the US; in the US, it seems terms like
"quartz sand" are used more often, quartz and silica
being the same thing. Essentially you want a lime-free sand from
the garden centre, which they should sell because it's a
widely used as an additive to soil, particularly houseplants
where it improves drainage. There are two grades, here in England
at least called "sharp" and "smooth"
depending on the smoothness of the grains. For aquarium uses, you
want smooth sand.>
Some friends of the family own a pool supply business. I see some
people use pool filter sand, what is your opinion on it? With the
walls of the tank being so dark I wonder if a white substrate
might help lighten the tank and make the fish more visible. What
are your thoughts?
Amanda
<Pool filter sand is widely used. Provided it's quartz or
silica sand, and therefore lime-free, and also feels smooth
rather than sharp, it should be fine. As for the colour of sand,
that's argued over. Bright substrates tend to cause some fish
to lighten their colours. You'll notice this with cichlids
and tetras especially; not so much with fish like Platies that
have been bred to have colours they can't change. Anyway, if
the tank is
densely planted, those fish that like shady areas, such as
cichlids, will stay close to the plants so all will be well. But
there's no getting away from the fact fish colours tend to
look more dramatic against a dark
substrate, whether plain gravel or black sand. The problems with
black sand come from its much higher cost and, in some cases, its
abrasive texture which means it can't be used with fish that
live on the substrate, such as catfish and loaches. Manufacturers
like Carib Sea state as much on their web sites, though some
aquarists choose to ignore this, and then wonder why their
catfish has no barbels. Cheers, Neale.>
Re: Silica Sand, was Removing silicone 01/10/10
I've called nurseries, landscapers, hardware stores, DIY
stores, no one has silica sand, regardless of what you call it.
*sigh* I think what I'm going to do is get the pool filter
sand ($7 for 50#)
<OK.>
and then get a couple small bags of sand from Petco or Bob's
Tropicals to add over the top if I can't find it cheaper over
the next couple of weeks.
<Why? It'll all get mixed up anyway. Sand doesn't sit
in nice layers!>
A 5lb bag of CaribSea sand at Petco was $15. Absolutely
outrageous!!
<Indeed.>
But, I really want to get this tank going! I'm getting very
impatient. LOL
Amanda
<Do read our articles about sandy substrates.
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/fwsubwebindex/nicebottoms.htm
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/ca/volume_7/volume_7_1/dsb.html
Cheers, Neale.>
Re: Silica Sand, was Removing silicone 10/2/10
<and then get a couple small bags of sand from Petco or
Bob's Tropicals to add over the top if I can't find it
cheaper over the next couple of weeks.>
<<Why? It'll all get mixed up anyway. Sand doesn't
sit in nice layers!>>
Just so it won't be stark blinding white, no other reason at
all. ;) I don't care how it winds up settling, in fact, I
think it mixing well would probably look nice. Especially if the
current in the tank made it wind up looking kind of marbled like
you often see in stream beds. :D
Amanda
<Hmm'¦ okay. Cheers, Neale.>
RE: Silica Sand, was Removing silicone
I FOUND SOME!!! I called a sandblasting company and asked who
their supplier was and was referred to Williams Equipment. They
have 40/95 grade.
$9.75 for 100lbs. Is that grade going to be ok?
Amanda
<Honestly Amanda, I don't know. I've never used
sandblasting sand. But if it's smooth, lime-free
silica/quartz sand, it should be fine. Do bear in mind sand sold
for sandblasting is unlikely to be washed. So you'll need to
do a lot of cleaning to make it suitable for the aquarium.
Otherwise you'll find the water goes cloudy and there's
floating debris and silt everywhere.
Cheers, Neale.>
Re: Silica Sand, was Removing silicone
Will be adding more plants as time goes on, including the ones in
their present tank. I am loving it so far!!
Amanda
<Looks nice. Try adding some hollow ornaments for cichlids and
catfish to
hide in. Some species will hide in the sand -- for example
whiptails -- and
that's very cool to see. But others prefer more solid caves.
Halved
coconuts with "mouse holes" cut in the edges and then
some Java moss on top
make excellent caves for small cichlids. And before Bob blows a
gasket, do
remember we have a very friendly forum where you can share photos
and get
comments from other fishkeepers. Much as I like chatting about
fish, Bob is
keen to keep the Daily FAQs focused on emergencies, and the more
sociable
stuff over on the forum.
http://bb.wetwebmedia.com/
Have fun! Cheers, Neale.> <<Thank goodness.
B>>
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New substrate
Changing Substrate 5/1/10
Greetings, I currently have a 55 gal tank set up and cycled. I bought
it used and it already have gravel in the bottom, I have not had any
problems with this tank so far. Currently it houses 8 Pseudotropheus
demasoni. The substrate is a similar color as the fish and I would like
to change it.
What I was thinking was using fine white sand along with a white
crushed coral to help it from getting too compact. The demasoni are
happy as can be (without directly talking to them) and I'm afraid
that with the stress of getting moved out of their tank, having to do a
larger than usual water change and adding the coral is going to disrupt
them too much and change the pH. What are your thoughts on this? I know
I should be testing the pH already but I'm shying away from testing
because I'm too much a perfectionist and would do more harm then
good trying to get the water just right. Regards, Paul
<Take a sample of your tank water and a sample of your tap water to
your local fish store and have the pH checked. If your pH is already
greater than 7.0 then there probably won't be a problem changing
the substrate.
Watch for ammonia and nitrites spikes since you essentially will have a
"new tank". I would recommend that you don't clean the
filters for awhile until the bacteria get established in the new
substrate.-Chuck>
Changing Substrate in an Existing Tank
5/3/10
It might be interesting to have a chime in on doing a substrate change
without moving the fish. I did this gradually over a few days using
play sand.
< Play sand may or may not be a crushed aggregate. If it is crushed
then the individual particles with be angular and abrasive to bottom
dwelling fish. sometimes this will cause trauma to the mouth parts of
bottom feeders and create infections around the mouth and
gills.>
This got very cloudy but the fish seemed OK with it.
< I would recommend that all substrates be washed prior to placement
in an aquarium.>
May not have the cloud issue with something besides play sand. For me
it wasn't dirty sand, the Quikrete stuff that I used is prewashed
but still is quite fine and likes to float. I have since added some
better sand with a darker color to bring out the spots in my Cory
cats.
I found that if you go slow the fish will give you plenty of room
without freaking out. I also used two methods to lessen the
disturbance. First, and foremost the sand needs to be wet before
entering the tank. Large scoops seemed to be fine but the trick is not
having the sand float out of the scoop before reaching bottom.
I also used panty hose where I filled it up and sank it to the bottom
of the tank and sifted out but grew impatient with that. And to get the
gravel out I used a sink strainer so I could lift the substrate without
taking any of the water.
Also, adding anything course, make sure not to rain it on the fish.
Now, what I did could have been totally inappropriate but if not
perhaps feedback on whether this method is OK if you go slow and gentle
on the change.
< Your suggestions on doing the physical act of actually changing
the substrate are fine.>
What is the tradeoffs between this and doing transfer and full water
change?
<The Ps demasoni are not touchy fish. So it becomes a matter of
logistics and time. I would have done it all at once since these fish
are fairly
tough. If I was working with a more delicate species, then I probably
would have changes the substrate about 1/4 at a time and gauged the
reaction from the fish to make sue they are not too stressed.>
Or perhaps a hybrid method of doing a 50% water change which is what I
did using the old substrate and water in a holding tank during the
change (which I did not).
Come to think of it, I think I'd do the 50% with transplant if I
were to do it again. On the other hand, with 19 fish to chase and scoop
perhaps not.
That has got to be a lot of stress but I'm not sure which is more
stressful.
Finally, if you take water samples to a store GET THE NUMBER and not
just "it's fine" as a result. Home testing and this
website have been the best combo over trusting anyone with my fishes
health.thx
< Good advice, thanks for the comments.-Chuck>
Questions on Freshwater Deep Sand Beds 3/17/10
Hello!
<Hi there>
I must commend all of you for keeping up such a wonderful and helpful
site.
I greatly enjoyed the most recent Conscientious Aquarist Magazine. Ever
since reading one of the FAQ a while ago where an upcoming article on
freshwater deep sand beds was mentioned, I've been eagerly awaiting
its release! What a helpful article! (I will certainly start leaving
roots behind when I move/rescape plants.)
Of course, like all good information, it leads to so many more
questions!
My system is a well-established 135gal densely planted discus &
community tank running on a 75gal sump, with pressurized CO2, high
light, and substrate heating cables. I have a couple questions about
using a DSB on this system. The substrate, currently, is about .75'
of mineralized soil capped with about one cm of Oil Dry (identical to
Fluorite, but more economical) and 1-3' of pool filter sand on top,
depending on location in the tank. Do you think I could turn this
substrate into a DSB (rather, would it be worth it, when the system
works well as is?).
<I think that all sand beds function in part as DSBs, with deeper
ones, of smaller/finer, rounder, more chemically propitious ones
operating better>
While I don't think that the soil would cause a problem if I were
to start using the substrate as a DSB, would the Oil Dry?
<I don't think it would>
It has 'large' pebbles, just like Fluorite. Also, substrate
heating cables allegedly move oxygen through the substrate; would these
cables, by doing their job, just make developing a DSB impossible?
<Some partial (not anoxia, by hypoxia) oxygen through induced
heat/convection (along with Brownian Motion et al.) is valuable>
The only other 'real' sand disturbers in the tank are the
sterbai Corys, Malaysian Trumpet Snails and their Assassin counterparts
(to be fair, I have to grow the MTS in the sump and periodically move
them, as the Assassin gang wipes them out faster than I can add
them).
<Both neat animals... that do a bunch of burrowing as you
know>
I already had Blackworms on the way, intended for use as discus treats.
If I add them to the tank on the substrate, they will be found and
eaten quickly -- can these be buried without killing them?
<They will/do find their way into some depth, low oxygen
settings>
Or would I be better to add them to the tank at night, in the thickest
bits of plants? What will the bioload of the worms do to the balance in
my tank?
<I would not add these on purpose myself. These worms live in
conditions that you really don't want to replicate for your other
livestock. If some live, so be it>
The tank is densely planted now, such that even with 900+ gph turnover
from the sump plus a *Koralia 2 powerhead, mulm still settles on the
substrate (beneath the plants). If I understand the article correctly,
I should leave this mulm? It seems to sit on the substrate rather than
move into it.*
<Some is okay... depending on the type of livestock you keep...
I'd siphon some out for looks periodically, along with water
change-outs>
My other alternative would be to add a DSB to the sump rather than the
tank.
<Yes>
There *is* currently a 'freshwater 'fuge' area in the sump
(I can hear the salties chuckling from here!) that I could add sand to.
Would this perhaps work better than in the main tank?
<I like both sites for many types of FW set-ups... the
remoted/sump/refugium is better for maintenance, manipulation
obviously>
Or in addition to a DSB in the main tank?
<Up to you, or both>
Is there any benefit to making the sand bed deeper than the three
inches laid out in Deirdre Kylie's article (3' seems shallow as
is?)? (If so, by how much?)
<Mmm, yes... 4-6 inches isn't too much, again, depending on what
you're growing, wanting to do... and of course the trade-offs
you're making with losing the equivalent water volume>
Thank you so much for all you do, especially putting up with merciless
picky questions like these!
Tianna
<The "devil" and heaven are "in the details".
Keep that good mind of yours going Tianna... we/the world need it and
you. Bob Fenner>
Questions on Freshwater Deep Sand Beds, Neale's go
3/17/10
Hello!
<Hello,>
I must commend all of you for keeping up such a wonderful and helpful
site. I greatly enjoyed the most recent Conscientious Aquarist
Magazine. Ever since reading one of the FAQ a while ago where an
upcoming article on freshwater deep sand beds was mentioned, I've
been eagerly awaiting its release! What a helpful article! (I will
certainly start leaving roots behind when I move/rescape plants.)
<It is an interesting piece.>
Of course, like all good information, it leads to so many more
questions!
<Oh?>
My system is a well-established 135gal densely planted discus &
community tank running on a 75gal sump, with pressurized CO2, high
light, and substrate heating cables. I have a couple questions about
using a DSB on this system. The substrate, currently, is about .75'
of mineralized soil capped with about one cm of Oil Dry (identical to
Fluorite, but more economical) and 1-3' of pool filter sand on top,
depending on location in the tank. Do you think I could turn this
substrate into a DSB (rather, would it be worth it, when the system
works well as is?).
<There is a minimum depth referenced in that article. I can't
remember off-hand the number, but if the substrate you have is LESS
than that depth, no, it won't work as a DSB. Particle size will
make a difference though; the finer the substrate, the better it works
as a DSB. To a degree, you have to experiment a bit if you're going
to depart from the recipe. For what it's worth, in my tanks I
observe DSB-like activity once the substrate depth is around 10 cm or
so (about 4 inches).>
While I don't think that the soil would cause a problem if I were
to start using the substrate as a DSB, would the Oil Dry?
<I don't know. Never even heard of "Oil Dry".
It has 'large' pebbles, just like Fluorite.
<Pebbles are bad. You want a uniformly fine substrate. If you think
about it, if a bed of sand works as a DSB, but a chunk of concrete of
the same size doesn't, then anything less like sand and more like
concrete will be less effective.>
Also, substrate heating cables allegedly move oxygen through the
substrate; would these cables, by doing their job, just make developing
a DSB impossible?
<Again, I don't know, but I doubt the convection currents
created by a substrate heater would make a huge difference either
way.>
The only other 'real' sand disturbers in the tank are the
sterbai Corys, Malaysian Trumpet Snails and their Assassin counterparts
(to be fair, I have to grow the MTS in the sump and periodically move
them, as the Assassin gang wipes them out faster than I can add
them).
<Yes! aren't they fabulous little predators!>
I already had Blackworms on the way, intended for use as discus treats.
If I add them to the tank on the substrate, they will be found and
eaten quickly -- can these be buried without killing them?
<Possibly, but I wouldn't bank on it.>
Or would I be better to add them to the tank at night, in the thickest
bits of plants?
<Could you use a yoghurt pot or something similar to "seal
off" a portion of the substrate, put the worms underneath, and
leave in place like that for the night? That should keep out the
catfish.>
What will the bioload of the worms do to the balance in my tank?
<Hopefully not much overall. While they will add to the ammonia
produce and will consume oxygen, by improving the DSB, they should
improve water quality.>
The tank is densely planted now, such that even with 900+ gph turnover
from the sump plus a *Koralia 2 powerhead, mulm still settles on the
substrate (beneath the plants). If I understand the article correctly,
I should leave this mulm? It seems to sit on the substrate rather than
move into it.*
<Will do so initially, but like leaf litter on the soil, the bottom
layers are slowly decaying into the substrate.>
My other alternative would be to add a DSB to the sump rather than the
tank.
There *is* currently a 'freshwater 'fuge' area in the sump
(I can hear the salties chuckling from here!) that I could add sand to.
Would this perhaps work better than in the main tank?
<The bigger the DSB, the better, but a small one in a sump is
certainly worthwhile, and much done in marine fishkeeping.>
Or in addition to a DSB in the main tank? Is there any benefit to
making the sand bed deeper than the three inches laid out in Deirdre
Kylie's article (3' seems shallow as is?)? (If so, by how
much?)
<Up to a point, yes, a deeper DSB is good, but there's a balance
between creating the DSB and wasting water capacity by filling the tank
with sand. By all means add an inch or two and see how things work out,
but I wouldn't go crazy.>
Thank you so much for all you do, especially putting up with merciless
picky questions like these!
<Happy to help.>
Tianna
<Cheers, Neale.>
Re: Questions on Freshwater Deep Sand Beds -- 03/18/10
I am spoiled! Two great answers for one question! Thank you so
much!
<Welcome>
A follow up question, if I may? I think I will start with a DSB in the
sump, as should I not like it/something go wrong, it is much easier to
remove without stressing the fish.
<Agreed>
If I like that, I will add more sand to the display. Would I count the
mineralized soil towards a ~4" depth for the DSB, or just the
sand?
<All counts>
It would seem that total depth would make sense, except for the
concrete analogy - I am sure that over time the soil has compacted very
much.
<And even "disappeared">
For interest's sake (and for all of the economical planties out
there), Oil Dry is a product used in automotive and manufacturing
industries, among others, to clean up oil. It (or at least some of it)
is a pure clay product that is apparently "food grade"
(although I can't fathom how/why you'd have food grade
clay...and I probably don't want to know!). Because of the nature
of the product, it is extremely inexpensive and can sometimes even be
found free.
<http://www.oildri.com/>
Neale, I did try your great (and so simple!) re-purposed container idea
- which did let the Blackworms into the substrate - but since the worms
rest with their heads (tails?) skyward, the Corys simply slurped them
from the
sand like spaghetti. Based on Bob's recommendations, I won't
try adding them again.
<Will share w/ him>
Thank you again for everything that you do for the hobby! (And thanks
Bob for that great lecture at CAOAC last year!
<Ahh! A very nice time out in Ontario, Canada>
This tank was the lonely "yes" in a room primarily full of
freshwater hobbyists when you asked who actually ran a sump.)
Thanks,
Tianna
<Thank you, BobF>
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