What would you do? Stocking 20 gal. 9/9/08
Hello Crew!
<Hello Audrey,>
I am in need of some guidance. We have recently upgraded our tank to a 20gal. We moved the plants and snails to the new tank. After a while, we decided to get some Pseudomugil Furcatus. We brought home 6 of them. All was well for the first 36 hours or so.
<Lovely little fish; hitherto very rare in the trade, but thankfully starting to appear a little more often.>
After about 36 hours I found fuzz on one of the males - not ick, one big infection spot. The fish was still active and eating at that point so I moved him to a treatment tank and treated with what I had around (Furan - supposed to treat mouth fungus, cotton wool and infections so I thought it would work). I found him dead the next day. I examined the body and saw a big red zone, an injury under the fuzz, so I think he died as a result of a mechanical injury, either in transit or at the store (they're too small and fast to do a thorough exam at the store).
<I'd be treating with a combination Finrot/Fungus medication such as eSHa 2000 or Maracyn. This should handle the "big three" -- Fungus, Finrot, and Mouth Fungus -- all of which are possibilities here.>
The day I found the injured male dead, I also found a dead female in the main tank, this one with no visible sign of illness or injury.
<Do check other issues: water chemistry, oxygen, temperature. It is possible they simply travelled badly, but still, for the sake of your peace of mind, check the tank.>
Now I am left with only four fish. I think they would be much happier in a bigger group. I'm also worried because I have a trio and a solo, and, although the lone female comes out for food, I have a feeling she'd be more happy if the dominant fish had more fish to chase away.
<Indeed.>
It has barely been a week and, while the other 4 fish seem happy, I'm worried they'll die suddenly like my female.
<Always a concern when you're keeping an apparently delicate species for the first time.>
Now, this is my dilemma. This LFS where we bought or fish is the best close to us, they're the only serious, specialized fish store around, but we haven't been happy with the fish we've bought there so far. There is a pet store that has healthy-looking, vigorous fish, but their selection is limited, and they don't have any Furcatus. There is also a very new fish store a little further away who insists heavily on the virtues of wild-caught fish - I'm weary of them because the seller told me I was crazy to have a heater for my Betta (another tank), and was rambling on some nonsense about UV sterilization. I know this doesn't mean they have bad stock, but I don't know if I can trust their husbandry. I also don't know if they have Furcatus in stock.
<You pays your money and you takes your choice... In this case, I think you need to focus on the matter at hand, grabbing a few more female Blue Eyes. Get them from whichever store has them, or online if you prefer.>
So, do I wait a few weeks before I get new fish until I'm certain enough my current 4 are going to make it? But if I do that, should I worry about my lone female?
<Depends on the price. If getting another batch only sets you back a few dollars, then go for it. I'd be looking to see that my existing stock are settled in and feeding. I'd like them to have nice rounded bellies -- and just for once, I'd perhaps overfeed slightly with live daphnia or whatever just to be sure. If this was all in the positive, I'd order/buy some more Blue Eyes.>
If I do get more fish should I go back to our usual LFS and risk buying another half-dozen, and hope those make it?
<Ask if he can get a batch in just for you, and you pick them up when they arrive before they're unboxed. Otherwise, buy a decent size group, factoring in a certain amount of attrition. Maybe get twice as many females as males, just to be on the safe side.>
My other choice is mixing the Furcatus with long-fin rainbows (those are easy to find) - would they even interact, given they're not the same species?
<Not even the same family, so doubt they'd have any meaningful interaction.>
What would you do?
As usual, I appreciate your guidance. I have options, I just don't know where I should go from here...
Thank you,
Audrey
<Good luck, Neale.>

Re: What would you do? Stocking 20 gal.  9/10/08
Hello again,
<Ave,>
I'm including the previous correspondence below for reference.
Well, things didn't work out. I lost another male a day after I wrote you, then yesterday night one of my remaining females pineconed (I euthanized her when she started swirling). I have two Furcatus left. I'm wondering if I should put my misfortunes down to bad stock or bad husbandry.
<Maybe both...?>
My tank is 20 gal standard, with Fluorite substrate, plants (Bacopa, Anubias, Amazon chain sword, Dwarf Hygrophila), two Coralife T5 bulbs. pH is steady around 7.4-7.5. Temperature was a bit high, hovered around 80 but is now going down with the cooler weather coming in, is now steady around 78 - this is with the heater set on low, if I remove it, it goes down to 70-72.
<In summer I have to confess I tend to switch the heaters off; leaving tanks to daily fluctuate slowly from 68-78 F is entirely in keeping with the wild, and nothing most tropical fish can't handle. Overheating, and the resulting loss of oxygen from the water, is more critical.>
No detectable ammonia, nitrite or nitrate (the algae must use it all). Filtered with two Aqua-Clear Minis (each rated up to 20 gallons), with sponge. One with added ceramic media, the other with carbon (I know what you think of carbon - I'll explain myself later). We were good in the last few weeks and did weekly water changes, about 25% each time. Not much vacuuming because the plants were new and there were only three snails in the tank. We had a problem with BGA these last few months, but with the new substrate, new plants and new lights it's slowing down radically. We still remove it manually.
<Very good.>
The first thing we tried keeping was Mollies, but they all died of Camallanus over the course of a few months. They were in brackish water too. We now know the tank was too small anyway.
<Ah, yes, Mollies can be sensitive. Camallanus is not common among the (Asian) fish I see in the UK; it seems to be more of a problem with (perhaps) the Mollies bred in Florida?>
The Amano shrimp lasted a long while (several months), and we used to have Cherries also. At some point, they started dying too. The only thing I changed was that I stopped using carbon, so I put it back. No luck. Our new batch of Cherries didn't make it past two weeks either. The Apple snail seemed to fare better, he's been with us for about 6 weeks and seems happy.
<OK.>
The Nerites, though, are with us since the beginning and growing at a steady rate. The beginning was when we got our Betta, over a year and a half ago. He's his usual increasingly-grumpy old self, in another filtered, heated tank of his own.
<Interesting; Nerites are quite good "bellwethers" and will climb out of the tank if oxygen drops or they get too warm. So if they're happy, the tank can't be seriously hostile.>
Basically, even if we know that Bettas are resilient, I'd be surprised we kept it this long (even neglected it at some point along the way) if our husbandry or water was this bad. And snails are sensitive to contaminants, or so I hear, but they seem to be doing fine. But we seem to be serial shrimp and fish killers.
<Well, shrimps are sensitive to copper. Snails are to a varying degree, but shrimps usually react immediately and fatally. But as you say, this mix of fatalities and survivors is interesting.>
What is our problem? Did we start with bad stock?
<Always possible. Fish are often bred to a price rather than a standard, and couple that with ropey husbandry in some stores, and the track record of many species is poor. None of the fish you're keeping is "delicate" by default, so poor stock is certainly something I'd consider.>
Or are we doing something wrong?
<Difficult to say; if you're doing things by the numbers, keeping on top of water quality and feeding issues especially, I can't imagine you're doing anything fatally wrong.>
Can you point us in the right direction?
<The first thing would be to leave the tank as it is for a couple weeks. Don't do water changes. Every 2-3 days, do nitrite and pH tests. Keep a record. Ditto water temperature. Try and develop a picture of how the aquarium is operating in terms of environment and stability. By the end of two weeks you can return to your normal maintenance schedule. Slight variation in pH over time is normal, but if it's great (e.g., from 7.0 to 6.0) then you may have a problem there. Carbonate hardness is often overlooked in this regard.>
What would be your absolutely easiest, sturdiest, non-plant-eating, compatible with inverts, non-aggressive, easily available fish for a 20 gal tank?
<Many options. Depends what you're after. At the moment in my 10-gallon tanks with shrimps and snails I have peacock gobies, Aspidoras pauciradiatus catfish, bumblebee gobies, and Limia nigrofasciata. Wrestling halfbeaks are also good, being able to adapt to a very wide range of water chemistry values.
http://homepage.mac.com/nmonks/Projects/freshwaterreef.html
Most of the smaller tetras should be good too, though they usually prefer soft water. If you have hard water, then the smaller livebearers are better choices. Endler Guppies for example should be easy to obtain and tend to be quite robust. Don't overlook "feeder Guppies"; these are much hardier than fancy Guppies and have added benefit of more natural colours.>
I doubt we'll have the heart to try Furcatus again any time soon.
<Oh.>
We're at the point where we barely glance at the aquarium anymore because we always expect to see some tragic event taking place. This is supposed to be a fun hobby...
<It IS fun... but sometimes it seems otherwise. Once a tank is stable and working, and provided you haven't added too many fish or the wrong type of fish, they're pretty much autopilot things that need little maintenance. Do be patient, and go slowly, leaving things to settle for a while before rushing out to buy some more livestock.>
Thank you for your guidance,
Audrey
<Good luck, Neale.>

Rainbow fish  5/10/08 hey, I am starting a rainbow fish tank, <Er... I guess you didn't read the 'house rules' regarding grammar, punctuation, etc. http://www.wetwebmedia.com/faqstips.htm Also, here in England at least, someone saying "Hey" to a complete stranger is considered extremely rude.> what are some recommendations (plz no tank sizes) <Why don't you want to know the tank sizes? All the fish you're considering need a fairly spacious tank, certainly upwards of 180 litres/45 gallons. Non-dwarf Rainbowfish comfortably reach 10-12 cm in many cases, often slightly more. It's just plain cruel to keep them in any aquarium less than 1 m/36" long -- they need the swimming space.> I am putting 4 Australian rbs, 4 incisus rbs, 4 boesmani rbs, <You need at least 6 of each of these. Not 4. These are *schooling* fish, and you will NOT see them at their best in small groups. They need to be in big groups so that the males and females are in sensible, equal numbers. ONLY kept this way will the group be peaceful and the males develop their strongest colours. For example, some people try to keep just males, and then wonder why their Rainbowfish don't ever become fully coloured. Well guess what -- those colours are for a reason -- to show off to females. No females, no mating colours. And if you want a nice mix of males and females, you need 6 of each species, at least. In addition, in groups of less than 6 the fish won't school. So instead of nice, coordinated group of fish schooling together, you'll get a jumble of scared-looking fish with weak colours. Trust me on this: after a couple of weeks of this, you'll be very disappointed with your aquarium. So instead of three different species, how about 12 specimens of just one species. The result will look a hundred times better, and this is how professional aquarium designers work when creating exhibits with Rainbowfish for offices, public aquaria, etc.> like what tank ornaments/substrate etc. <Rainbowfish do indeed like tank ornaments and substrate.> Thanx <Chz Neale>

Neale re: threadfins (Rainbows)    4/24/08 Hello again Neale, <Hello Aileen,> I have been fish keeping almost a year now and it amazes me how much I learn every time I look through pages of this site. Sometimes too much and the information gets all jumbled in my head (could be age too) and other times I learn enough to lead me to ask more questions.. it really is a wonder resource. <Thank you!> You mentioned some time ago that if I wanted threadfins I should consider another tank. I thought you were nuts at the time but...I am going to look at a used 40g tomorrow. Actually somebody had a 100g I can have but I think two monster tanks might be a bit much. My thinking is leading me to include in this tank: threadfin rainbows, wrestling halfbeaks, Corydoras and then I was wondering about bumblebee gobies or something with some colour. I was reading on WWM that most bumblebee gobies are considered brackish except one species, which may or may not, tolerate fresh water better? <BBGs are complicated: you cannot possibly identify species; even scientists have trouble doing this under a microscope, let alone with live fish! Most BBG species seem to be found in a variety of habitats, from blackwater streams to brackish water. But in aquaria they are temperamental, and slightly brackish water does seem optimal. This is a lot like Mollies for example, which may be freshwater fish in the wild, but unquestionably are easier to keep in brackish. Because BBGs are very difficult to keep well fed, I'd not keep them in a community tank.> My water is liquid rock. What are your thoughts on this community and any numbers you may think appropriate? Are there any other species you might include instead? <Almost anything that doesn't explicitly need soft water should thrive. pH stability is more important than pH value in most cases, and people routinely keep all sorts of things in hard water conditions. With Threadfin Rainbows, I'd be looking at Corydoras (and their relatives, like Aspidoras and Dianema) in terms of bottom dwellers. Kuhli loaches and small Loricariidae such as Whiptail Catfish would also be appropriate. You might also opt for some surface fish like Halfbeaks. Tetras and Barbs are best avoided because of potential problems with fin nipping, but Rasboras and other small Rainbowfish are certainly an option. Livebearers are certainly a possibility, though some Goodeidae are fin nippers so choose with care.> And since I have your attention, I was reading on here some time ago about separating swordfish fry before the appearance of the sword to prevent inbreeding. So I immediately set up another 10 gal to do so. But I realized when I was trying to sex them that they appear to be all female! Is this a probability? <No. While the idea that Swordtails change sex is widely held, there are actually no scientific studies that backs it up. It is much more probable that aquarists mistake undeveloped males for females. Male livebearers don't develop their sexual characteristics until a certain age (usually around 2-3 months depending on the species). Obviously until the gonopodium is formed they cannot fertilise the females, so you don't need to separate them until that time.> Or am I missing something like the triangular fin I am supposed to be seeing on only the females? Is the differentiation not as great in fry as adults? I ended up separating by size as it seemed the best alternative at the time. Since I was having so much trouble purchasing healthy vibrant red swords I decided to keep the try of a lone surviving, vibrant female. The batch was small but healthy, I have not lost any and they are about 5 months old. But still, not a sword in the bunch...I was hoping for some nice deep red males for another long term plan. <If you have just 5 fry, it is statistically possible, though unlikely, they are all one sex. But if the fry are less than a couple months old, you can't sex them anyway.> Thanks in advance for your help Aileen <Good luck, Neale.>