Hyposalinity main tank - preventive/therapeutic Ich treatment     12/6/12
Bob,
<Dave>
Recently, I had email exchanges with you regarding Ich in my main tank, and fear for my porcupine puffer's survival.
<I recall>
Since, I decided to try a main tank hyposalinity treatment (as employed with auto top-off and refractometer measurement). Having seen this described on WWM, and reading on the 'net numerous accounts of success with this method for FOWLR tanks such as mine, I took the plunge.
<Mmm>
From an Ich (or other unknown pathogen?) standpoint, it seemed to have
very quick results when the I reached a 1.009 SG. The puffer stopped its slime coat shedding, all heavy breathing and spotting disappeared, and it seemed to return to its normal health and eating - with rapid speed. It almost literally came back from the dead. Tankmate flashing stopped as well. And, health/behaviorally no fish seemed to notice the change (aside from temporary low feeding and activity after each adjustment). The algae has died off and I had to start wet skimming, otherwise all has seemed fairly normal. I took measurements, and noticed no measurable impact on the biological filter.
<Ok...>
I then decided to complete my stocking
<?! The whatever it was/is is likely still present...>
 list as quick as possible, to allow all final planned specimens the opportunity to run through the same hyposalinity treatment period (i.e., which I plan to stop at 8 weeks).
I have seen some cycling since adding the new specimens. I started to measure Ammonia and was very surprised. Then it occurred to me that this was no anomaly for having added about 30" of heavy-eating predators (plus eel) to my 200G system. After my first measure of Ammonia (.25ppm), I did a full dose of Dr. Tim's and double dose of Topfin Bacterial Supplement.
<Mmm, at low and varying specific gravity... nitrification can be tricky>
I have seen Nitrite rise to .25ppm as well, and the Ammonia has remained at that level. Nitrates have gone up quite a bit, to 40ppm (I am about to activate a DIY upflow algae scrubber, scaled to my tank size, for this messy crew).
Otherwise, I neglected to watch the PH closely for a few days and subject my fish to a low PH. My clue that something was amiss was the puffer's skin coloration being very light. It seemed to have return to normal.
Now, however, I am very worried again about the puffer. It has not moved much over the last few days, and today there was a dramatic loss of feeding-time vigor. I had to drop a small piece of shrimp right next to his nose to get him to nibble a little of it, whereas typically he zooms like a Hummer across the tank for a whole shrimp (running over all in path). My suspicion is that the Ammonia is causing this. I don't see any "gasping for air" at the surface or signs of ammonia poisoning for anyone, but I can't imagine what else could be causing this. No outward signs whatsoever of pathogens or harassment from tankmates (in fact, he seems to be the only one who has avoided the turf war / battle wounds that are now calming down in the neighborhood).
My question is - should I start aggressive water changes or dose with Seachem Prime (or both in succession)?
<Such water conditioners are only "spot" treatments... only useful for now to a very short period of time. The/a answer would be/might be, useful for troubles that need to be addressed immediately, NOT useful for ongoing problems (which you have here, having bumped off the nitrifiers w/ the lowered spg)>
 I have tried to withhold this to allow the cycling to complete naturally, and thought the fish could fare this slight Ammonia level temporarily.
<Mmm, debilitating>
However, now I think I need to act in some fashion for the puffer.
Thoughts? It also occurred to me that the Ammonia could be mis-stated by the API saltwater test given the hyposalinity level of my tank?
<Not likely; no>
Also, my tank water stinks. Not "fill the house or room" stink, but when I'm near it. I figured this to be the algae die off and didn't take much concern - should I?
<Yes; possibly a source of trouble as well>
FYI, other tank mates: Bluelined Rabbitfish, Bluehead Wrasse, Engineer Goby, Stocky/Chinese Hawkfish, Volitans Lion, Harlequin Tusk, Maroon Clown, Tesselata Eel.
Thanks! Dave
<I'd be ready to steadily raise the density of the water here... Bob Fenner>
Re: Hyposalinity main tank - preventive/therapeutic Ich treatment     12/6/12
Bob, thank you for the quick reply and guidance.
<I sense/d the need to do so>
It seems that hyposalinity treatment accounts generally confirmed that bacterial filters would not be harmed, including some of the experiments or examples mentioned in the WWM OST article and by other WWM contributors.
<My opinion and experience has been otherwise. You will note that most makers of "Nitrifying bacterial products" offer a freshwater and marine package>
 I suspected the cycling was seeing was due to adding other fish.
<Mmm, doubtful that this alone is at work here>
 From your response, it seems I misunderstood what is really going on here with nitrification impact. Do you think adding more bacterially seeded media or live rock may have a positive impact?
<In time, yes...>
Perhaps that is a better strategy than emergency water changes or spot treatments?
<It is indeed>
As for the stocking, I had read (similarly from the above sources) that near-pathogen free tanks were achieved after running sustained hyposalinity (including some experimental systems where months to years were attempted).
<Some people believe so. There is a friend who is co-author of a fish disease book who has a service co. that keeps his tanks (FO) at 1.010 spg and a titer of free cupric ion continuously; and reports no pathogenic disease issues for years>
It seemed I was simultaneously achieving both disease treatment and quarantine/preventive hyposalinity treatment by adding all fish - allowing eradication of existing pathogen to continue while also eliminating any likelihood that new pathogens could come from new fish.
<I would not do this... IF there's problems in a system, better by far to not potentially add to them. BobF>
Re: Hyposalinity main tank - preventive/therapeutic Ich treatment    12/7/12
Bob, thank you kindly. I have found a trove of WWM FAQs that address hyposalinity failure, and have spent the last several hours reading.
Somehow, I never found that before. Bang head against wall, repeat 600 times.
<Ahh; I have tried to organize, place related materials near each other in the indices, placed links on the individual articles and FAQs pages as "Related" at top>
For the multitude of successful accounts, my early assessment is that failure could be a more likely outcome in my tank. It seems that failure of nitrifying bacteria is a common thread in the FAQ topic on hypo failure.
<Yes>
I will put all bacterial media I have in the system, neutralize the ammonia with Prime for 24 hours (to allow time for my water reservoir to build), then do a water change. Then, I will slowly adjust the salinity back to normal and continue on this path (gradual on density change but as rapid as possible on water changes). During this time I will see if the nitrification begins recovery, as it seems some report that the bacteria impact seems temporary at adjustment.
Nauseating deja vu.
Thanks, Dave
<Be of good cheer Dave. You're doing what you can. BobF>
Re: Hyposalinity main tank - preventive/therapeutic Ich treatment    12/7/12
Bob, another question on adding additional bacterial media. Is this likely to compound the ammonia issue in the near term? IE, will more bacterial death due to hyposalinity shock cause a rise in ammonia?
<Mmm, no; or at least not much. There is very little protein/amino acid/ammonia biomass in such prep.s>
 Sorry for the quick/compounded questioning, I'm getting nervous...
<No worries. Bob Fenner>
Re: Hyposalinity main tank - preventive/therapeutic Ich treatment    12/7/12
Bob, is it possible that certain life forms in the rock are to blame?
<Blame? As in be a source of nitrogenous compounds? Yes>
 Such as, encrusted sponges that don't survive a hypo plunge that are found in some but not all systems...thereby causing such adverse impact to the system that the biological filtration can't keep up...?
<Oh yes... you didn't... have... these... live rock... in place when/where you dropped the spg I hope/trust>
The stink (getting worse) reminds me of what I smelled on a few pieces of my live rock, when I first got them (straight from Fiji) and cured them.
Based on research at that time, I suspected the smell was from sponge death. Now I'm recalling that stink, and wonder if this could explain a common culprit in hyposalinity display tank failure?
<? LR should not be subject to such changes in spec. gravity>
Well...doesn't change my path of heavy water changes and diligent observation...but thought I'd check.
Also, I read a recommendation last night that it is good practice to dose with Prime when Ammonia is present, before a water change is performed.
This will reduce the Ammonia to a less toxic form before the new water is added.
<Only temporarily>
Since new water will likely cause an upward pH adjustment, toxifying the Ammonia that is left in the system, Prime may help reduce this impact.
Sound or bunk?
<... I wouldn't rely on such de-aminators in such circumstances. B>
Re: Hyposalinity main tank - preventive/therapeutic Ich treatment    12/9/12
Bob, thanks for the update. I did have my live rock in place, which I see is a common denominator with the hypo failures reported at WWM FAQ.
<Ugh! Can be a REAL mess Dave... massive die-off of most all life in, on the rock... Crustaceans, Molluscs, Worms, Ascidians, Sponges... all>
It is interesting that many have reported no observed ill impact in display tank hyposalinity (with live rock in place in FOWLR setting only), which is what encouraged me to give it a go with my FOWLR (before realizing I have a major issue).
<Yes>
Well, I will continue the observations and return to normal...I did a 40% water change, with very small upward adjustment as I didn't want to add any more stress to the tank crew. Stench is now almost unnoticeable, water much clearer, and all seem much happier. Good to see...water changes to continue...and now, to plan on how to remove the Tesselata. Eel bites and frantic behavior for many, this specimen is a terror....fortunately only about 12-15"...
<Keep moving forward... B>
Re: Hyposalinity main tank - preventive/therapeutic Ich treatment      12/12/12
Hi Bob, quick update... I have continued vigorous water changes, except none for the last 3 days. Now I see no ammonia and continued .25ppm nitrite measuring. Until now I have continued to dose Prime about every 24-48 hours, and thought perhaps I would discontinue this after next water change, to allow nitrification cycle more opportunity to "catch up" and naturally convert the nitrite. Otherwise I see continued high nitrates (30-40ppm), manage the pH as it hovers low, and have maintained about 1.009 SG. Fish all seem to be doing very well now, puffer still seems subdued but feeds very vigorously (perhaps this is his new personality in the presence of newer tankmates?). All are feeding and active - especially now that I have removed the eel. Hopefully I have averted the tank failure experience that seems common with display tank hyposalinity attempts, but watch with continued diligence and with full water change recharge ready.
<Only time can/will tell>
 No spots, although I have see a strange white clump on the maroon clownfish's fin
(very large in comparison to an Ich spot), that now seems to be trailing off. Any idea what this could be?
<Body mucus from an injury of sorts likely>
THANKS for your support/advice...Dave
<Welcome. BobF>
Re: Hyposalinity main tank - preventive/therapeutic Ich treatment    12/17/12
Bob, I have continued the hyposalinity treatment and fish seem to be exhibiting normal behavior and feeding. However, I have observed a clump appear on the porcupine puffer's eye. Please see attached pictures (multiple views to hopefully demonstrate this). Initially I suspected physical trauma as there was more cloudiness and less of a raised "peak", however now I suspect a fluke/worm? Could this explain the maroon clown's fin clump (which started as white clump, then began trailing a "tail", now is diminished but still there with "tail")? Picture of this as well - at the front center of the pectoral fin (sorry for other suspended particulate and spots - clown is very active in the sand when it is not hidden).
<Not likely these disparately related fishes harbor the same Trematode/s>
I also recalled that the puffer's spots before hyposalinity (which almost killed it...slime coat/heavy breathing), also had trailing "tails" on some spots.
Is it possibly an external fluke? At 1.009-1.010 salinity, I find this hard to believe? Perhaps a slight drop is warranted, to see if this imparts any visible change?
<Not likely, but possible>
Otherwise, my system health seems to be reasonable. Water params now seem stable (although nitrates run high), water seems generally cloudy (could this be calcium precipitate from buffering agent used to keep pH higher?),
odor is gone, but nuisance algae has taken hold (no surprise).
With gratitude...Dave
<When you raise the spg back, we'll see. B>