Brown Round Tube on Rock Casting Web Around Zoas, Soft Coral: Vermetid Gastropod Control -- 4/15/10
<Hello Selah, Lynn here today.>
First Timer
<Welcome to WWM!>
Another what is this?
<Fire away>
Brown round or doughnut shape tube (white opening at the end or in the center) of circle. It is very small on rock, casting web (not like pic of Spaghetti worm) around corals.
<It's a Vermetid Gastropod, a snail that crawls around as a juvenile, but eventually attaches itself to a hard surface and remains there for the rest of its life. They feed by means of casting out, then reeling back in, a sticky mucous net that catches particulate matter and plankton that drifts by in the water column. Most of the time, these snails are harmless/beneficial, or at least innocuous, in reef systems but if they're close to a coral, they can act as an irritant. The webs don't actually sting the coral, they just irritate it through continual contact.>
I have been searching thru your website have not found the ID of this creature.
<You're good to go now!>
The web is much finer than a Spaghetti worm, really like spider web material.
<Yes it is. Spaghetti worm tentacles are hair-like, while Vermetids' are web-like.>
The little Kenya tree and Zoas coral are closing.
<Yep, that's a typical reaction.>
I have wiped off the stuff but now since searching WWM again there are more, so felt the need to ask.
<Do you mean there's more web appearing or that there are more of the Vermetids appearing here and there on the rocks? If it's more web, that's normal. These snails don't have just one that they reuse, they create them as needed. If you mean that you're seeing an increasing number of Vermetids, then you may well have a growing nutrient problem. They tend to multiply in high nutrient situations so take action if necessary. Please see the following link for more information re: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/nutrientcontrol.htm >
I sent a picture to Dr Foster and Smith and they can't identify. Enclosed are 2 pictures one close up and the other have 3, the fine line is too small to photograph, can only see with magnifying glass. I see a little critter in the white tube like end and even have seen the very fine line come out of it as it comes out. When I get close they see me and go back in. They are attached to the rock so well it crushes them when I pull them off.
<Be sure to avoid handling these with bare hands. The shells are thin, brittle, and can slice your fingers/hand fairly easily and lead to a nasty infection. It's a good idea to wear gloves and/or use tweezers (or whatever works) when handling/removing these organisms.>
I would not be concerned however the little bit of coral I have are being affected.
<Yes, you'll need to eliminate the offending Vermetids. There's a lot of information at WWM regarding this. If you only have a few, or are only concerned about the ones near the corals, I'd recommend manual removal (with care) or plugging their tubes with something like a superglue gel. If you have a lot of them, watch your nutrients. There are apparently some predators that may eat these (some hermits, fishes and crabs), but they may not be appropriate for your system. Please Google WWM, using the term Vermetid + Control for more information: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/Googlesearch.htm
More here: http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-01/rs/index.php >
My system is a 55 gal, good water parameters, Nova extreme light, good water movement.
1 clown, LTA, 2 Pajama Cardinals, Emerald crab, Hermits, 1 Conch, 2 Turbo snails. All the guys seem happy and healthy. This website, Conscientious Marine Aquarist and The Reef Aquarium have been invaluable since starting our new hobby. I live in a very remote part of country and LFS have been a bit of a challenge as I have received incorrect info from the surrounding ones.
<Unfortunately, that seems to happen everywhere.>
I took Bob's advice and have returned items that should not have been sold.
<Excellent, he does know what he's talking/writing about!><<Heeeee, only some, part of the time. B>>
Thank you so much for your time
<You're very welcome. Good luck with the Vermetids!>
Selah in the mountains
<Take care, Lynn Z, near the mountains>

Attn Sara M: Vermetid Snail Mucus Causing Frogspawn Polyp Ejection? -11/14/07 Hello Sara, Thank you again for your time and insight. So, if polyp ejection or bail out results in a complete detachment of the polyp, that is definitely not what is happening to my frogspawn. However, some, but not all, of the heads that have divided on my frogspawn have developed a clear bubble similar to the one pictured on this page: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/caryfCorlsaqs.htm And the frogspawn does seem to be splitting very fast. <Yeah, this is odd...> Here are two pictures: the first, #546, shows the frogspawn from below. You can the see largest, green worm-like structure, as well as a web of greenish-whitish mucus-like material accumulating on the coral and the rock. <That actually doesn't look like Vermetid snail mucus web. If anything it kind of looks like sponge.> The second, #550, shows the frogspawn from above and behind. You can see more worm-like structures, as well as a web of mucus-like material that is catching detritus. This is the first I've noticed, but there seems to be some algae now growing on the mucus-like material as well. <That wouldn't happen with Vermetid snail mucus.> One last thing that perhaps I should have mentioned earlier: this frogspawn is hosted by two true Percs. <Hmmmm... interesting. Normally I would tell you that clown hosting is very stressful to corals. But this is such an odd thing with your coral growing so fast.> I'll confess, I thought I had it all figured out, so I await your judgment: is this bad for the coral? need it be addressed? if so, how? <I'll be honestly with you, I'm a little baffled myself. Hosting clowns usually stress out corals quite a bit. But if your coral is growing this fast, and if it keeps growing this fast, I'd question how stressed it must be. Typically, stressed corals don't grow so fast (if much at all). Let me ask you, do the clowns feed the coral?> Thanks once again. Ben Irvin <Thanks for writing, Sara M.>

Re: Attn Sara M: Vermetid Snail Mucus Causing Frogspawn Polyp Ejection?-11/14/07 Hi Sara, It's really nice of you to take the time, and I'm happy to respond, even at risk of showing my ignorance, so long as I am not taking up too much of your attention. <Not at all... I quite enjoy hearing from other people about their experiences with their corals.> I, too, wondered about the possibility of a sponge, but was at a loss to explain the worm-like structures in the gauzy, mucusy material. <I know it doesn't look like your typical sponge, but I'm 98% sure it's some kind of sponge. Sponges can be mucus-y, web-like, gauzy... all the things you're describing are not inconsistent with some kinds of sponges.> To give you a better sense of what this looks like, if I saw it growing in my fridge, or in a garbage can, I'd think that it was mold. It is whitish-greenish in color, it clings to (possibly grows on) the adjacent rocks. It has developed worm- or tube-like structures in it. It seems to cling to, or grow on, the lower, green portion of the stalk rather than on the white portions of the heads. Now, ugh, here's my ignorance: in response to your question, do the clowns feed the coral, my answer is, I don't know what that means. I feed my clowns Mysis and Cyclop-eeze every third day, a reduced feeding schedule that is aimed at reducing nutrients in the tank. (I also add a few mg of phyto twice per week.) I occasionally squirt some of the Cyclop-eeze in the general direction the frogspawn, but in general I don't target feed it. The clowns stay close to the frogspawn and swim in and around its heads at night. <Just like how clowns bring food to anemones in which they might be hosting, they will often also bring food to any coral in which they are hosting. This is what I mean by "feeding."> Again, I acquired this coral in May. It had four heads when I obtained it, and I suspect I'll have sixteen soon enough, each heading having split and many now splitting again. <Dear lord that's a lot of splitting. Do you have any pictures of the whole coral colony? I'm just curious to see this thing now.> This coral had been fragged off of a specimen the size of a basketball in my LFS's show tank. So perhaps it is just a quick grower. <Oh cool... I was just going to say that it would be interesting to see if the coral grew just as fast without the clowns (and/or in a different tank). So, if a frag of it in a different tank is growing just as fast, that might tell us something. But I'm afraid I still don't have a real answer for you as to why it's growing so fast. I suppose it could have some sort of genetic "defect" that is causing this. But I honestly don't know. Please do record all this though (take pictures and make notes of observations).> But I want to be sure that whatever is growing/clinging to its trunk is not an irritant. <If you're worried, and if you can easily remove it, go ahead. Better safe than sorry I suppose.> Your insight is greatly appreciated. Ben <De nada, Sara M.>

Re: Attn Sara M: Vermetid Snail Mucus Causing Frogspawn Polyp Ejection? -11/14/07 Hi Sara, Unless you recommend otherwise, I will put some light water pressure (turkey baster) on what we think is the sponge. If it blows off, great, but if it doesn't budge, I probably won't risk any kind of intervention. <Sounds like a good plan. You could also use a pair of tweezers to try and gently pull it off if the baster doesn't work.> Later this evening, I will send you two pics of the coral, one opened and one closed. <Cool, thanks!> Have I told you that I appreciate your expertise? <Hehe, yes, and thank you again for sharing with us.> Ben <Best, Sara M.>

Re: Attn Sara M: Vermetid Snail Mucus Causing Frogspawn Polyp Ejection? -11/14/07 Thanks for the advice, Sara. During a regularly scheduled water change this evening, I attempted first to suction and later to blow this unidentified material off the frogspawn. I was able to remove a little of the detritus and what looked like a bit of brownish hair algae, but the mystery material stayed put. So, since you haven't identified it as fatal coral-killing death stuff, I'm going to let it be. <Yeah, I'd just let it go for now. Most sponges don't pose any real threat to stony corals.> I've attached two pix: the first, #556, shows the whole coral as it's beginning to retract for the evening. For scale, the whole thing cuts an arc a little bit bigger than a soft ball. <Thanks for the pics, looks like a healthy coral. :-)> The second pic, #566, shows the coral closed up a bit. I had hoped to show you a picture of the coral closed all the way, so that you could distinguish the separating heads, but the frogspawn doesn't seem inclined to close up tight tonight. But, just for example, the two heads at the far right of the picture have each developed two mouths and the splits seem imminent. Likewise, on the far left, what appears to be one big head is actually four. It's really been amazing to watch. <Indeed, very interesting.> But so long as it is not an unhealthy response, I'm happy! <Corals are still so mysterious to us humans. All I can really say is that the coral looks plenty healthy. I'm not going to promise you that there's no chance this accelerated splitting isn't a result of some kind of stress. But I don't have any reason to say it is either. And even if it were, it's obviously not killing the coral. So I say just keep doing what you're doing and keep an eye on it.> (Also, in the background of 566, you can see a bit of pink sponge in the vicinity, so maybe this is a sponge-worthy rock.) <LOL... "sponge-worthy"--too funny.> And speaking of rock, you rock. Thanks for all your help. If you ever need a totally noobtastic second opinion, be in touch. <Fabulous, my pleasure.> Sara M.>