FAQs about Puffer Pathogenic Disease
FAQs on Marine Puffer Disease: Marine
Puffer Disease 1, Marine Puffer
Disease 2, Marine Puffer Disease
3, Marine Puffer Disease
4, Marine
Puffer
Disease 5, Marine Puffer Disease
6, Marine
Puffer
Disease 7,
FAQs on Marine Puffer Disease by Category:
Diagnosis,
Environment,
Nutrition, Social,
Trauma, Treatments
<Plus see below re Disease by Category per Puffer Family>
FAQs on Marine Puffer Disease by Group:
Marine
Puffers & Kin, Velvet &
Crypt, Boxfish Disease,
Tetraodont Disease, FW Puffer Disease, BR Puffer Disease,
Toby Disease, Burrfish Disease,
Related Articles: Puffers in General, A Saltwater Puffer Primer:
Big Pufferfish! by Mike Maddox, Puffer Care and
Information, True (Tetraodont)
Puffers, Freshwater Puffers,
Burrfishes/Porcupinefishes,
Tobies/Sharpnose Puffers, Boxfishes, (Big) Pufferfish Dentistry By Kelly Jedlicki and Anthony Calfo,
Small Puffer Dentistry
By Jeni Tyrell (aka Pufferpunk), Puffer Care and Information by John
(Magnus) Champlin, Things That My Puffers
Have Told Me by Justin Petrey,
Related FAQs: Puffers in General 1, Puffer Behavior, Puffer Compatibility, Puffer Selection, Puffer Systems, Puffer Feeding, Puffer
Reproduction, True (Tetraodont)
Puffers, Freshwater Puffers,
Burrfishes/Porcupinefishes,
Tobies/Sharpnose Puffers, Boxfishes,
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Whole groups of external and internal Protozoans,
Worms... even, hey! Crustaceans at times.
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Diodon holocanthus with crypt 4/4/17
I know there are some threads on this, but I have a hard time sorting
through and finding the information I need. Please forgive me.
<The search tool (on every page) should bring folks to what they are
looking for>
I have a 210 Aqueon tank, pH is 8.0, kH, 9, SG 1.023, Ammonia 0,
Nitrites 0, Nitrates ~10.
I have a small Diodon holocanthus who came down with a case of crypt
nearly overnight.
<Was always there; just "sub-clinical">
He was fine on Saturday night and had it on Sunday evening. He was (and
still is) acting perfectly normal. None of the other tankmates
(harlequin tusk, dwarf fuzzy lion, dwarf eel, Kole tang, foxface, and
coin bearing angler) have even one sign of crypt.
<Mmm; not to bum you out (excessively) but your system "has it">
I started treatment with Kordon Herbal Ich attack
<Mmm; often doesn't work... complexed by...>
as that is all I could get at the LFS that wasn't copper based. I had a
> porcupine for 4 1/2 years previously who used to beat the ich on his
own.
<Ah yes>
I would just use Voogle (immune booster) and feed. Sometimes I added
kick ich,
<Scam, sham>
but it is hard to say what the actual cure was. I was just happy he was
cured. After 3 days of the Ich Attack he seemed to be getting better,
then it reappeared and has been pretty bad for the past week or so. I
started the
treatment of Kick Ich which I had to order. I cannot get my hands on any
Voogle at this time. He does not seem to be getting any better or worse.
If you couldn't see the crypt, you wouldn't know he had it. He is
still eating like a horse and outcompeting fish that are 3 times his
size.
<Good signs. Are you lacing/soaking the foods....?>
He's still in the main tank as all I have for a QT is a 10 gallon which
I can have set up in about an hour so that is where I have been
treating.
<Too small for this>
Here is what I know, copper is not an option (is Cupramine safer but
still copper?),
<Yes; search on WWM...>
hyposalinity is not good for puffers, so where do I turn. I read your
praises of Chloroquine. Is Chloroquine safe for puffers?
<Yes>
Any side effects?
<Yes; possibly>
I ordered some Dr. G Anti-parasitic caviar and I am going to lace the
food with this. Should I leave him in the main tank and target
feed him the food
so he is not stressed or set up the QT?
<I'd do the former>
Should I just keep him well fed and happy until he beats it on his own?
I have also shortened the light cycle so he can rest longer. No one else
in the tank is picking on him or pays any attention.
Thanks for any help,
Jason Russo
<Do read here:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/cryptpuffs.htm
and onward re soaks (vitamins, HUFAs...) when you get to a link. Bob
Fenner>
Re: Diodon holocanthus with crypt 4/4/17
Yes, I am soaking the food in Selcon, garlic, and VitaChem.
<Ahh; good>
Which do you say is a scam, the kick ick, Voogle, or both?
<The first; don't know what Voogle is>
Also, what do you mean by "complexed by?" Does it make it worse?
<Mmm; makes it non-existent... trouble/s w/ organics added to marine
systems; they're highly change-able>
I will read your links, thank you for the response.
<Welcome. B>
Thanks,
Jason
Re: Diodon holocanthus with crypt 6/1/17
So I have good news to report. I ended up transferring all my fish to QT and
treating with CP for 28 days. I'm happy to say that my porcupinefish is
cured. I had to dose some erythromycin as well to help with a cloudy eye
condition, but that is all cleared up as well. His fin scars are all gone
and he is eating like a horse (my dwarf lion from another post is also doing
very well in the same tank).
<Ah good>
My reason for the message is that my puffer has developed a
bump/growth on his lower lip. I don't know if I should be concerned
about it. Is it just a skin tag?
<I think so... an owee, from rubbing its face against the tank side likely>
Will it fall off on its own? It doesn't affect him in any way and I will
just ignore it if it is nothing.
Jason Russo
<I would count on this self-curing as you state. I would move all back to
the main/display. Bob Fenner>
Re: Diodon holocanthus with crypt 6/1/17
I would love to move everyone back, but I am doing the fallow thing. I hear
76 days is the norm. Is that correct?
<Mmm; a trade off... stress to the hosts, vs. loss of virulence in the
display... You must judge when>
It's unfortunate because I know everyone would be happier in the big tank.
<Yes; and healthier>
Thanks,
Jason
<BobF, who would be moving all. Read here:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/parasittkfaq2.htm>
|
|
Nematode in spiny pufferfish eye -Puffer
with crypt and worms - 8-12-08 Hello Crew, <Evening, Mike
here> I searched your site for similar cases, but came up with
nothing. Here's the situation: My spiny pufferfish (Diablito)
co-habited a 50-gallon tank with aValentine puffer (Bumblebee), a
Chocolate Starfish (Chip) and two snails. <Cute name! The tank is a
bit small...> Two or Three weeks after purchasing Diablito, he was
attacked and covered completely by Ich and Bumblebee showed one or two
spots. They were both quarantined to a 20 gallon tank to be
administered daily water changes and treated with Kordon Rid Ich+.
After 2 weeks, neither puffer is showing any signs of Ich. <If your
display wasn't fishless for at least 4 weeks, you've basically
accomplished nothing - the crypt is still there> However, four days
ago, Diablito's left eye appeared to have the small white line
curly Q'ed in it. Now it looks like an adult worm. (I have attached
a photo) <Hmmm...> So far, I've treated with Jungle Labs
Anti-Parasite Fish Food (Metonidazole (1.0%, Praziquantel (0.5%) and
Levamisol (0.4%) and Jungle Fizz Tabs Parasite Treatment with Praziquantel. <Fish food isn't likely to help his eye, but will
help rid him of internal parasites. Be sure to dissolve the 'fizz
tablets' in a separate container of water first, or they will drop
your pH like a rock! Seachem and Kordon make good anti-external
parasite medication, you may try one of these brands if the Jungle
product doesn't seem to be working> Am I on the right track? Do
you have further suggestions and/or suggested time frame to continue
administering above treatment? <You could freshwater dip the puffer,
which would probably remove the external parasite(s). See our FAQs
regarding. Also, you're going to need to eradicate the crypt from
your main display - also in our FAQs> Thank you, <Anytime - also,
please do visit/sign up at our forums: bb.wetwebmedia.com> Lisa
<M. Maddox> Lisa Street <PS. I see you're living in
Houston - lived there for a while before going to school. I miss the
aquarium stores there!>
Puffer with worms? Really worried!
1/23/07 Hey Crew! My Puffer, "Blinky" has
been doing fine, great; hungry all the time. Late this
afternoon I noticed the front part of him puffed up (just like a
bullfrog). I thought he was mad because I hadn't yet fed
him, but also noticed that he coughed a few times. So I gave
him a defrosted (washed off) tail of a shrimp with the shell still on
(because I thought this would be good for keeping his teeth in check
and he seems to enjoy it). He ripped at it hungrily until
the Clown fish stole it for her Anemone. He followed over,
and after many attempts of trying to get it back (with the clown
head-butting him ever so often), he (the Puffer) coughed up two (what
looked like pale orange worms followed by the shrimp meat; white in
color and in chunks that I recognized as just having fed
him). Now I couldn't tell if the worm things were
actually living worms because the other darn fish ate them so quickly I
didn't have a chance to see them wriggle). I became very
nervous and just fed him some krill because I thought the shrimp shell
might have upset his stomached. He ate that
happily. but I am concerned about the wormy things and his
puffing up. <Mmm, I would not be concerned re either at this
point... the worms may well be just part of the shrimp you fed... and
the puffing... just an expression of sorts> I am going to ready my
10 gallon hospital tank just in case advised to move
him. What percentage of new water to old water ratio should
I be using? <... I'd move all to the new tank from the old>
And if discerned that these wormy things are in fact worms ingested by
the other fish should I now be treating the whole tank and just leave
Blinky where he is? <... would depend on what these worms... if they
are... actually were... Microscopic examination>
Everybody else seems fine (with the exception of the
vomiting Puffer), but as you know that could all change in a matter of
hours. Have you ever see anything like this? And
is it bad when a Puffer "puffs up" and
coughs? Best advice appreciated. Really worried,
Please get back to me ASAP! Thanks so much for being there! Lisa
<There are general Anthelminthics that can be utilized here (see
WWM, the Net with this term and the word "aquarium"...) But I
would not panic, move the puffer... if it is eating, all seems well
otherwise... I'd just go forward as you have been. Bob Fenner>
-Possible Isopod
issues- 1/20/06 Hello all! <Hello, Justin with you
this evening.> First of all, THANK YOU so very much for your amazing
site! It is such a wealth of fantastic information, and is
truly (in my humble opinion) the best wet-pet resource on the web!
<Well its all due to many people who help, and the crew here. Ill
pass your thanks on to Bob.> I currently maintain a 120G fish-only
tank. In addition to the 3" puffer (Diodon
holocanthus), there is also a 4" angel (Pomacanthus imperator),
4" lion (Pterois volitans) and a couple of small (1-1.5")
damsels. Salinity - 1.021, Temp - 80*F, Ammonia - 0,
Nitrites - 0; Nitrates - 5ppm. <An interesting mix, have you seen
any aggression out of the Lionfish? most of the time
puffers, and lions may squabble, much to the lions detriment when the
puffer breaks off spins or nips fins. do keep an eye out for
long term issues. You also will probably need a bit bigger
tank long term for these guys as all the fish get to 15" + other
than the damsels.> A couple of days ago, I noticed a small white
spot medial to my puffer's left eye. The spot does not
look like Oodinium or ick, but is rather large (2-3mm) and
flat. This morning, I noticed two more ventral spots... also
2-3mm each, flat, and completely circular! They do not look
like any sort of parasite that I know of, and it seems very strange to
acquire trauma with those manifestations. Also, the spots
are bright solid white, and almost appear "indented" into the
skin. What on earth could this be? <The indented part
seems very odd, as most parasites are bulges outward or bumps. It may
be an isopod of some sort that has decided to attach on. they can be
fairly easily treated in hypo salinity dips or by using a anti parasite
medicine in a hospital tank for a few days. However, From
what you are saying it is hard to give you a definite answer on
it. Can you maybe send in a good photo of the area in
question. It would be much more helpful in identifying the
culprit if one exists. Also herding the puffer into a
container and gently rubbing the area to see if it comes off or is an
actual indentation may save you further headache here. My
puffer enjoys digging up substrate (I have sand) and little pieces get
stuck in the spines and look very odd and are a similar size to what
you are saying. Also mine enjoys playing in the sump return
pipe and getting micro bubbles all over him as well. It
could be a benign item like that.> His attitude is perky as always,
and he is eating great! I am at a loss on this one... any
ideas? <You have me a bit stumped as well on this, but Id check the
basics first, and a gentle rubbing of your finger on the area may
reveal a simple answer to your concern. Try watching it for
now and see if any more appear or if they disappear all together. I
will forward this to Bob for some further ideas. If you can
grab a photograph of the area and send it in as I said above, it may be
much more telling.> Thanks in advance for everything! Christine
<Thank you for being clear, and including everything tank wise I
needed to know to focus on the issue. Hope we can figure
this out.> <Justin (Jager)>
Dogface Puffer w/Internal Parasites? 9/25/04 Greeting all!
<Hi, Pufferpunk here> I have a possible problem I'm hoping
you can offer advice on. I recently purchased a dogface puffer who was
very skinny. It was a rescue from a chain store - I know I
shouldn't have as it just encourages them to buy more, but the poor
thing was in a 10g tank (its nearly 6 inches long) looking at me with
sad eyes begging "please, please get me out of here!" Anyway,
they said they had trouble feeding it, but were only offering it frozen
brine shrimp. Upon getting it home, I discovered he was more than happy
to eat Krill, Clam, Ghost and Mysis shrimp, as I suspected. <Brine
shrimp for a 6" puffer? Poor thing. Brine
shrimp is mostly water & not very nutritious at
all. He's lucky to be in your home, eating the
"right" foods. Try whatever you can find in the
fish dept of your grocery store (except fish). I buy a lot
of assorted goodies & freeze. Then I thaw in warm
vitamin water, as needed.> Mr. Puff has now been in quarantine for
about three weeks with lots of meaty food daily, but isn't getting
as fat as I had hoped. He's not nearly as emaciated as he was when
I first got him, but is still rather streamlined for a puffer,
especially after he poos. I'm wondering if he may have internal
parasites, or if I'm not giving him enough time to recover the lost
body mass. Would it be advisable to treat for parasites? If so, any
suggested medication? <It certainly couldn't hurt. I
have had great success using Discomed, by
Aquatronics. Unfortunately, that company has gone out of
business, but there are still some boxes around for
sale. Here's a guy that has some to sell:
http://puffer.proboards2.com/index.cgi?board=lounge&action=display&num=1095291341
& a thread on alternatives to that med:
http://puffer.proboards2.com/index.cgi?board=hospital&action=display&num=1093270673.>
I have heard adding Fenbendazole to the food is good, and it is
available at the local farm supply store, (though figuring out small
enough dosages could be a problem). However, I'd rather not treat
unless necessary. <You are correct that the med has to be added to
it's food. Some folks have had some success with garlic,
but I think that will just enhance appetite, not rid the fish of
internal parasites.> I also had a question related to damsel
compatibility. When he's out of quarantine, he will be making his
home in a 75g aquarium. I was thinking I would like to add blue damsels
for color. I realize it might not work because the puffer might decide
to eat the damsels, but that isn't much of a concern for me. Not
that I want them to get eaten, but if they do, its really not much
different than offering feeder fish. <I don't see any problems
with adding damsels with your puffer. they are quick &
can hide out in places the puffer can't reach. I have
had damsels for quite some time with much more aggressive puffers,
without any problems.> What I am more concerned about is
after reading about damsels going after divers, that they might turn on
the puffer. Is this a reasonable fear? Or would they likely leave their
potential predator alone? <I have been "bitten" by many a
damselfish while diving. There is no way those little teeth
would be able to do any harm to a puffer's leathery, spiny
skin. Not to worry!> I was thinking of adding five or six
blue devil or yellow tail damsels, or even doing three of each to keep
their battles for territory occupied with each other and not the
puffer. If this sounds reasonably safe, what would the best order to
introduce them be? The puffer and the damsels at the same time, or one
before the other? <I don't really think it matters, but if you
are concerned, add the damsels first.> Thanks so much again for your
assistance! <Sure & enjoy your puffer! ~PP> Take
Care, Tami
Puffer with Worms in eyes, What Do I Do? (9/8/04) Hey
guys, I wrote to Mike D and am hoping to hear back from him, but I
need to know something pretty soon. <Leslie here this morning,
Mike may be out battling the hurricane........hopefully I can
help.> I was observing the dogface puffer that
I got in about 2 months ago. He had small white
spots on his fins when I got him in. He has never really gotten
better ever since I have had him and I have tried a variety of
medicines. <Possibly Lymphocystis believed to be viral due to
environmental causes. The best results have been reported from
providing good water quality and good nutrition. > Over the last
week his health has gone down hill. I have tried a
variety of medicines without any luck. < For
future reference ......It would be useful to know what medications
you used, the dosages and time frames as well as in what way the
fish has gotten worse, any other symptoms, what how much
and how often you have been feeding and if there is anything new or
different in the tank. Medicating with either
inappropriate, to much or to little medication can actually do more
harm than good. > I checked the water and everything
seems fine. < Actual numerical water parameter values are much
more helpful when one is assisting with these sorts of problems.
> But tonight I was observing him and I noticed that he has been
squinting a lot lately. I was looking at his eyes and
noticed a small mass of greenish worms actually inside his
eyeball. They were squirming around and actually in the
cornea area. < Yuck....I am not a fan of worms. Puffers are
often carriers of worms, but I have not seen or heard of anything
like this before. I consulted with Anthony and he passed on the
following information... "although uncommon, some fish can
develop a worm cataract (larvae found within the eye). They
supposedly are not contagious/communicable in the aquarium and the
fish can live just fine with them believe it or not."> What
the hell should I do in regards to this...is there anything I can
do to save him or should I just find some method of putting him out
of his misery painlessly (and if this is the case is there anything
you recommend?). Thanks, Mike <As I have heard Bob say many
times "long as there is life there is hope, my friend".
Since the Puffer's health had been on the decline in the last
week with other meds having no effect and if you have not already
tried an antihelmenthic (deworming medication), perhaps one of
these is in order. You may have read some of Kelly the
Puffer Queens posts....she has had excellent results with deworming
Puffers using Praziquantel AKA Droncit. I have obtained it online
and it is frequently used for eliminating intestinal worms in dogs
and cats, so you might be able to get it from a
Veterinarian. The dosage according to Dr. Noga's book Fish
Disease Diagnosis and Treatment is 23 mg/pound of body
weight. So this would require you weigh the Puffer. It is most
effective administered internally via food, so the fish needs to be
eating and you have to get the medication into the food. If he is
not eating it can be used as a dip or bath. It sounds as if he may
have something else going on as well. To be honest
though, if effective in killing the worms my guess is
that the only way for them to eliminated from his
body would be for them to be reabsorbed. It is a good
possibility that this could leave the Puffer with impaired vision,
if not blind but I am not certain..... There is a place called
National Fish Pharmaceuticals here http://www.fishyfarmacy.com/. they
have a few broad spectrum antihelmenthics. I can't
really tell you what to do.....I can say if it were my Puffer I
would try it. If you need more help with this please do not
hesitate to write back. Best of luck with your Puffer. HTH,
Leslie> |
Review of a Query Response Please ....Puffer with Worms in
Eyes Hi Bob and Anthony, Hope you are having a wonderful Labor
Day Weekend!! I am attempting to answer a query and would
appreciate if you could just review my response prior to my
submitting it......re a Puffer with worms in it's eyes.....poor
thing.....have either of you seen or heard of this.......if not
Anthony if you see Kelly perhaps you could ask her what she thinks
and for some input. Here is the email and below my response ....
<Excerpted> Thanks so much!!! Leslie <Leslie, I like your
response altogether, content and format-wise. The small spots could
be a single-celled organism (Microsporidean possibly) or encysted
worms of some group... in all cases, with the observation of likely
nematodes in the eyes, I would prescribe the same sorts of
treatment. Bob Fenner> |
although uncommon, some fish can develop a worm cataract
(larvae found within the eye). They supposedly are not
contagious/communicable in the aquarium and the fish can live just
fine with them believe it or not. Anthony back from a long
weekend... whew! not so relaxing after all - re-plumbed Kelly's
600 gallon tank. Yikes! Much better now for the tank, but not much
sleep for me <G>
Ant-
Hi Bob, Thanks so much I appreciate the guidance. Anthony also
responded and mentioned "that some fish can develop a worm
cataract (larvae found within the eye), which are supposedly are
not contagious/communicable in the aquarium and the fish can live
just fine with them. " It sort of gives me the creeps knowing
there are worms in the eye and not treating them. <Yes...
reminds me of the Loa loa worm of humans... no thanks> The young
man responded. Based on the fact that he has used hyposalinity of
1.010, Rid Ich, then ParaGuard for 3 weeks and now Met for 2 weeks
I have drafted this and will send it off if you think it is good
advice..... <I do. Bob F> Puffer with Worms in eyes, What Do I Do? Foll0w Up (9/8/04)
Leslie, Thanks for the response. <Your welcome I hope it
helped> Tank parameters: Ammonia: 0, Nitrites: 0, Nitrates: <5
ppm, PH: 8.3, Temperature: current 79 ( goes from
78-80) and Current Salinity: 1.016 . <Thanks for the info.... All
looks good except I would be tempted to bring the salinity up closer to
1.018 and I like to keep my tanks a tad cooler in the 75 to 77 range if
possible. I have found that lower temps help to minimize
bacterial populations along with routine water changes. > Medicines
and procedures used: Hyposalinity 1.010 as recommended by LFS with half
does of rid Ick (per container and Mike D. for scaleless or sensitive
fish). <I have had stubborn cases of Ich where 1.010 was not
sufficient to effect a cure. As soon as I lowered the specific gravity
to 1.008 the visible spots were gone in 3 days and after 4 weeks at
that salinity they never returned.> Brought the salinity back up now
per Mike D. Hyposalinity needs to be used for at least 3 weeks to allow
for the complete life cycle of the critter, with 4 even better. I have
used it as long as 6 weeks. > Used Para guard for 3 weeks...improved
for a while then came back. Dosage per container. <I have heard
varying reports on the effectiveness of this treatment> Currently
using Metronidazole.. been using for 2 weeks some improvement until 3
days ago then ick came back and discovered the worms. Dosage 6 scoops
every other day as per container's directions <Metronidazole, is
an antiprotozoal drug with a antibacterial effects against anaerobic
bacteria only. If this is Ich it will not treat it.> The only thing
I have been able to find in my own research was the possibility that it
is a copepod eye parasite. I'd send a picture, but I
don't currently have the ability. <Oh that's to bad a photo
would be helpful as well as educational. > He was housed with a
moray when first quarantined. The Eel never showed any signs
of the disease and was removed. <These guys are pretty hearty. Glad
to hear the eel did well and has been separated from the Puffer. Good
job!> No other changes to the tank. Tank filtration
consists of a Bak Pak skimmer/filter and a bio wheel with carbon
removed. Live rock (7 lbs). The tank is a 29
gallon quarantine tank. <Glad you have the fish in quarantine. One
other thought that comes to mind is that depending on the size of your
Dogface Puffer 29g is on the small side unless you have a tiny guy.
> The Eel has been moved to the display after separation and
observation. Anything else that you need? I finally did make
contact with Mike D. He is in the middle of the hurricane and said he
would get back to me when he could. < I had a feeling Mile was in
the middle of that storm....hope he and all his critters are safe.
Hmmmmm. I think I would give the puffer a break from the meds for a
bit. I once had the MOST stubborn case of Ich, near about drove me
nuts. I used dechlorinated pH, temp adjusted
freshwater dips daily for 7 days, as recommended here on the site by
Bob, in conjunction with hyposalinity at 1.008 for 6 weeks.
It is imperative that you use a calibrated refractometer when employing
hyposalinity.....all the other methods of measuring salinity are far to
inaccurate, leaving to much room for error....... below 1.008 is not
recommended and much above that you are not really treating the
parasite. Scott Michael has a recent article on marine parasites in
which he mentions the use of FW dips for up to 30 minutes if the fish
is comfortable and tolerating the dip. My Puffer did very well for the
full 30 min, he even ate in the dip bucket. Slight
increase in gilling would be normal but thrashing,
spitting at the surface, gasping, rapid
gilling or rolling over on to it's side would all be
signs of undue stress and reason for immediate removal from the dip. I
have found the following article and FAQs invaluable..... The Three
Sets of Factors That Determine Livestock Health/Disease & FAQs
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/mardisease.htm
Nutrition plays a big role in how any of us fare with illness...enough
cannot be said for optimal nutrition all around but particularly during
times of stress and illness......if you are not already varying his
food and providing a good vitamin supplement you should start ASAP. Bob
frequently recommends liquid baby vitamins. Have a look at this article
..... Nutrition: Foods and Feeding for the Marine Aquarist http://www.wetwebmedia.com/feeding.htm
If you have not read the articles here on the site re marine parasites
please do have a look at these as well....Marine Aquarium Parasitic
Diseases and FAQs http://www.wetwebmedia.com/parasiti.htm
Steven Pro has an excellent article called Marine Ich/Cryptocaryon
irritans - A Discussion of this Parasite and the Treatment Options
Available, Part I & II which can be found here ... http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-08/sp/index.htm and
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-10/sp/feature/index.htm
If it is Ich those should help. However Bob Fenner responded to my
request for assistance with this and here is his response.....
"The small spots could be a single-celled organism
(Microsporidean possibly) or encysted worms of some group... in all
cases, with the observation of likely nematodes in the eyes, I would
prescribe the same sorts of treatment" Your puffers spots may not
be Ich and may very well be related to the worms in the fish's
eyes......I wish I had a definitive answer for you. Once he
has had a chance to recoup a bit from the previous meds and has had
some supplemental nutrition in the way of vitamins, all things
considered in addition to the fact that Puffers frequently come to us
with worm infestations I would be inclined to go ahead and treat for
worms with one of the antihelmenthics. It would be important to do this
while he is still eating. One of the antihelmenthics
from available from National Fish Pharmaceuticals may be
easiest to use. I would also recommend frequent water changes any time
one is dealing with pathogens. The water changes function to keep the
environment clean as well as reduces the pathogen load, fewer pathogens
are easier to fend off than larger numbers would be. Again best of luck
with you Puffer and please do let us know how he does or if you have
any additional questions. HTH, Leslie>
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White worm in puffers' eyes 5/20/04 I'm battling an
outbreak of skinny, white worms affecting at least two of my puffer
fish (a Valentini puffer and a striped Burrfish). The worms seem to
gravitate to the fishes' eyes but also have appeared on fins and
poking out of flesh. I haven't find any info online, so any advice
much appreciated...Thanks, Jenn P. <for success with fishkeeping
long t term, you will want to have a good diagnostic fish disease book
on hand. For a cheap, reliable book look for Untergasser's old but
accurate "Handbook of Fish Diseases) (TFH press). The best modern
work to date is that of Noga's. To address your problem now though
is fairly easy. Any parasitic worms that large to see can easily be
dropped off with a proper freshwater dip and/or use of Formalin. Please
do a keyword search of our site for these terms and protocols if
unfamiliar. Best regards, Anthony>
Puffer With Possible Ich 4/28/04 Hi, <Hi,
Pufferpunk here> I just transferred my false eye puffer into my new
120g tank using a high quality net and proper acclimation. I
noticed that he has 3 white spots on his fins. That was 4
days ago and he is not scratching and is eating well. The
other fish show no signs of Ich or spots. I'm concerned
this could be Ich but could just be trauma to the
fin's. <If he's not scratching, eating well
& it's only a few spots, I wouldn't worry
yet. How long did you quarantine?> If it turns out to be
Ich what is safe and effective treatment for this fish? I would also
have to treat my purple tang and tomato clown. I can use my
old 55g as it is set up as a hospital tank . Do you
recommend a freshwater dip at this time? <Yes, FW dip
& hyposalinity for the puffer would help, if it is indeed white
spot, but don't panic yet.> Please help, Concerned in
Minnesota. Thanks! <I think your puffer will be just
fine. Keep an eye on him for more spots & then you can
take action. ~PP>
Puffer with Possible Ich 4/28/04
Hi, Thanks for your reply. <Sure, that's
what I'm here for!> Sorry I didn't give more
info. I've had the puffer for 2 years in a 55g
tank. I just transferred him into the 120g tank with my
other 2 fish. <Sounds like a nice tank for him.>
After I transferred him into the new tank I immediately noticed the 3
white spots on his fins. <Possibly stress related...>
That was about 6 days ago and he is acting fine, no scratching and
eating voraciously as puffers do. The tank is doing well
with nitrates, ammonia and nitrites at zero. The spots are still there
however. The other fish are fine. I'm hoping
that the spots are just trauma from transferring with a
net. I tried to catch him with a container but had no such
luck. If it does turn out to be the dreaded white spot are
there any treatments along with FW dips, hyposalinity and
temperature elevation that is safe for puffers? <Really,
those methods are the best.> I also have a tomato clown and a purple
tang. I've thought about getting a cleaner shrimp but
the puffer may eat him. I have some snails in the
tank and he leaves them alone but I'm not so sure about a
shrimp. I guess I could try one and see if he's
aggressive to it and then place the shrimp in my reef tank. <Have
you seen a shrimp inside many a predator's mouth? It
might work, if it is indeed a parasite.> Thanks, Finally defrosted
in Minnesota after a beautiful 90 degree day today. <Ooooh
nice! I live in breezy Chicago. !PP>
Puffer with...pimples? (12/18/03) Hi Crew, <Hi! Ananda
here today...> First off, I love your site. It's a
wonderful source of information. <Thanks for the kind
words.> I've asked Santa for your Reef Invertebrates book for
Christmas. I haven't been a good girl so who knows if
I'll get it :). <Heh. Maybe the guy in the red suit will see
this and it will show up...we can but hope. ;) > Here's my
dilemma. I have a small dog faced puffer that developed Ich
but now has Ich, cloudy fins and small bumps on his body like black
head pimples. <Do look up "black spot" on the WWM site and
see if that might be it.> I don't know if this is just Ich or
Ich and something else. The tank is a fish only 26 gal with
a Fluval 204. I have 1 dog faced puffer, 1 clown, 1 blue green Chromis,
1 red fire fish and 1 Hawaiian algae blenny. <You should
add a new fish tank to that list for Santa... a 26 gallon tank is far
too small for your current batch of fish. I would suggest at least a 75
gallon, though bigger is better.> A 5% water change is done weekly
and new charcoal every 40 days. <Charcoal is exhausted
fairly quickly -- within days, not weeks. By the time you're
changing it, it's developed a good quantity of nitrifying
bacteria.> Ammonia 0, Nitrite 0, pH 8.2 - 8.4, nitrate 80, temp 78.
The nitrates have gone up in the past few weeks from 40 to
80. I'm trying to bring the nitrates down. <Got a
skimmer? Refugium? Deep sand bed? All will help -- and removing the
charcoal more frequently might, too. But the thing that would help most
is a bigger tank; the high nitrates are a sure sign you're
overstocked. Do increase the amount and frequency of your water changes
until you get these guys into a bigger tank.> The fish are fed every
other day. <I'd suggest daily feedings, and more frequent water
changes.> This problem started on the second day after introducing a
new Hawaiian algae blenny to the tank. <Ack! No quarantine?> The
only fish that had Ich was P-Fishy (puffer). I immediately
did a 20% water change, turned off the lights as instructed by my LFS,
removed the charcoal and treated
with Quinsulfex. The next day the Ich was gone.
<Well, it *appeared* to be gone...but was hiding in the tank. There
is no such thing as a one-shot-and-it's-gone cure for marine
Ich.> I waited 5 days then did a 10% water change and added new
charcoal back in. Boom, the Ich was back on P-Fishy the next
day. <Yup. I'm not surprised. Ich does that.> I
did a 5% water change, removed the charcoal, and treated with
Quinsulfex. Again, the next day the Ich was gone. <Or so
it appeared.> As the medication instructions noted, this time, I
treated the tank for a second time with Quinsulfex. With no
Ich detected after 14 days, I did a 5% water change and added another
new charcoal. Bada-Bomb-Bada-Bing the Ich came
back. <Yep. Marine Ich has a one-month life cycle.>
This time there was the addition of white clouds on the fins and small
spots on his body. <Likely stress from the on-again/off-again
treatment is a contributor...as is the poor water quality.> Every
time I think it's gone and add charcoal, the problem
resurfaces. I guess that's why they call it ICH.
I've read the plethora of information on your site about
Ich. I don't understand why it's only attacking
P-Fishy and not the other fish (not that I want it to).
<Because puffers are "Ich magnets" and will show signs of
infestation before the other fish in your tank....> Am I dealing
with something other than Ich? <Quite possibly.> Any
help would be greatly appreciated. <Your first order of business is
to get a hospital tank set up for these guys. (That may coincide with
getting a bigger tank for -- even a 55 gallon tank would do "for
now", if you can get a bigger one later, and then you could use
the 55 for a sump/refugium. You could use the new/larger tank as your
hospital tank while the current tank goes fallow for a month or so.
Then play musical tanks/fish, with the fish and sand, rock, etc.
currently in your 26 ending up in the new tank. Then you can use the 26
as a quarantine/hospital tank.) The puffer needs to be in a hospital
tank, where you can treat him for Ich with hyposalinity and daily water
changes. If the other spots are "black spot", you need to
treat that, too, and that's best done in a hospital tank. I would
definitely recommend that you let the main tank go fallow, which means
that ideally, you should have one hospital tank for the puffer and a
different quarantine tank for the other fish. But as that main tank is
just too small...I'll ask Santa if he can get you a new tank as an
early Christmas present, but if you can do that, maybe he can get you
some of the other stuff on your list.> Thanks, Felicia
<You're welcome. --Ananda>
Dogface Puffer - is this ICH ?
(11/13/03) Hello, <Hi! Ananda here tonight...> I've
had freshwater tanks for years, but am only about 6 months into my
first 90gallon saltwater tank. My favorite fish, a 4" dogface
puffer with great personality developed small white dots about 12
days ago. Based on my reading, I assumed this was Ich and
immediately quarantined him the first day it showed up.
<Good move. What else is in the tank?> Since then, he gets
daily freshwater dips (with Methylene blue) and 20% water changes
every other day, vacuuming the bottom of the
tank. <Excellent. Have you started
hyposalinity?> The dots have gone from about 10 total, to
covering much of his body and seem to be getting worse rather than
better. They seem to fill in pores in his skin,
while some pores are still clear. I've attached 2
pictures, can you please look and tell me if you think this is
indeed Ich or something else? <A few people
have looked at these photos, and we're not sure what this is.
I'm curious -- when you do a freshwater dip, how long is the
fish staying in the dip? Do any of the spots fall off during the
dip? Also, in these photos it's hard to tell, but are the spots
raised at all? Is the fish exhibiting any other signs of Ich, such
as "scratching" on things? Is he eating like usual?
Breathing more heavily than he used to?> Can you suggest
additional treatment? <If you haven't started with
hyposalinity and increased temps in the hospital tank, I would try
those. They won't harm the puffer, but should prove detrimental
to the parasites if that's what they are. More info about your
tank and its occupants might help us figure out what this is, or at
least rule out some possibilities.> Thanks so much for your
help, and the great site! Gregg <You're quite welcome!
--Ananda> <Ananda asked all the WWM Crew to look over your
images... the white "dot markings" showing may be simply
a developing color pattern... or possibly signs of some external
parasite (perhaps Trematodes/flukes). If it were me/my fish I might
try a pH-adjusted freshwater bath to see if these spots
"dropped off", otherwise I would simply keep an eye on
the specimen and see if its health seems mal-affected. In either
case, these spots will likely "cycle off" causing little
trouble. Bob Fenner> |
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Dogface Puffer - is this Ich? The mystery deepens...
(11/15/03) <Sabrina found more info for all of us: http://www.fishbase.org/Photos/ThumbnailsSummary.cfm?ID=6400
... Note how several of these puffers have those white spots in similar
arrangements. Sabrina mentioned "Looks like all the Arothron genus
have these bumps." If that is the case, we're probably looking
at one of a few things: some sort of natural occurrence, some parasite
that is common to puffers, or just maybe some sort of symbiont that is
common to puffers. The puffers in these photos that have these white
spots appear to be healthy, but unfortunately we don't have life
histories of those fish. If you could both please look at these photos
and tell us if your fish have (or had) something like this, I would
appreciate it. Thanks! --Ananda>
Dogface Puffer - is this ICH ? -- Nope! (11/15/03) Thanks for
the quick response! <Hi! Ananda here with good news!>
The 90gallon has a yellow tang, 12" snowflake eel, a small
valentini puffer and two domino damsels. The puffer is alone in the QT
tank. <Keep him in there.> The QT tank has salinity of 1.019 and
the temp is 82 degrees, compared to 1.025 and 78 degrees for the
90gallon. Since the puffer has been in QT for about 14 days now, with
the daily FW dips and the spots have only increased, I'm thinking
this must not be Ich after all. <If the FW dips
did not help *at all*... doesn't sound like Ich, especially if the
spots are not raised.> He seems healthy, eating and swimming around
as normal. As you and Bob suggested just keeping an eye on him, do you
think it is necessary to keep him in QT? As I understand it, flukes are
not contagious - is this correct? <I don't know about flukes, but another
reader wrote in about her puffer, named Chompers, and what worked for
them.> Thanks again! Gregg [quote from Lindie:] Hi Ananda, I was
just on your daily questions and saw the picture of the dogface puffer.
That is what Chompers looked like from what I could see from the
picture. See if they can find some of the receiver 2. I am telling you,
that stuff works like a champ! I never dipped Chompers or anything,
just the Q/T and fed him and he cleared up in a week/2 weeks and he is
looking so good now. Especially since he is away from the Meanie Queen
Angel. I hope that beautiful Dogface heals up nice and fast. Chompers
waves a fin to you and the crew and blows bubbles to his new friend who
he hopes gets back on his fins real fast. Lindie [/quote] <If you
can't find the Receiver 2, Lindie was kind enough to send us the
list of ingredients of the stuff: "Polymers, salts, Nitrofurazone,
Methylene blue & sulfas: Diazine, Methazine & Merazine."
All of those are anti-bacterials. Nitrofurazone and Methylene blue are
easy to find. You might try treating your puffer with those, at half
the usual suggested strength. Let us know how this works out!
--Ananda> Another Dogface Puffer...Answer! (11/15/03) Hi
Ananda, <Hi!> I was just on your daily questions and saw the
picture of the dogface puffer. That is what Chompers looked like from
what I could see from the picture. See if they can find some of the
receiver 2. I am telling you, that stuff works like a champ!
<Woo-hoo! Thanks for the info. I will pass your whole message along
to the person with the sick puffer.> I never dipped Chompers or
anything, just the Q/T and fed him and he cleared up in a week/2 weeks
and he is looking so good now. Especially since he is away from the
Meanie Queen Angel. I hope that beautiful Dogface heals up nice and
fast. <Me, too!> Chompers waves a fin to you and the crew and
blows bubbles to his new friend who he hopes gets back on his fins real
fast. Lindie <Thanks so much for this. More info coming...
--Ananda>
Dogface Puffer - is this Ich? More on Receiver #2...
(11/15/03) Thanks! These are great pictures!
<Yup! Will pass the thanks along to Sabrina.> I'd not seen
this site before and not had any luck finding similar pictures.
<Fishbase is a wonderful site....> Several of these look exactly
like the spots on my fish. Arnig_u5.jpg is a good example, although the
spots are not as dense on my puffer (although they are getting denser
over the last two weeks). Also, Arnig_u6.jpg and Arnig_ub.jpg, although
those specimen look fatter or slightly puffed up. <Could be either.
For those reading along who missed the previous one, here's the
link for the thumbnails of these pix: http://www.fishbase.org/Photos/ThumbnailsSummary.cfm?ID=6400>
Right now my plan is to keep him in QT for a couple more weeks and see
if I can locate the Receiver2 product that Lindie
mentioned. <As it happens, due to a *totally* unrelated
thread on the forums, I know what else to have you look for if you
can't find the Receiver 2. BettaMax, which is sold in capsule form
by Aquatronics, has almost identical ingredients: "250 mg capsules
of water soluble Nitrofurazone, Methylene blue, Polyvinylpyrolidone
(PVP), vitamins, NaCl, Sulfas: Methazine, Diazine, Merazine". If
you go with these, I would dose at full strength, given that this is
designed for Bettas that are much smaller than your puffer.> I have
been using Methylene blue in the daily freshwater dips - the only
result being that he doesn't seem to like me as
much... (no effect on the spots). <I'm just imagining
your puffer, pouting in his freshwater dip....> If you do find any
more info about this condition, I would be very interested. <Me,
too!> I'll keep you posted on the hoped-for recovery. <That
would be great.> Thanks again. Gregg <You're welcome.
--Ananda>
Dogface Puffer -- Mystery continues (11/18/03) Ananda,
<Hi!> In looking at those pics, <at http://www.fishbase.org/Photos/ThumbnailsSummary.cfm?ID=6400
> I noticed that a lot of those puffers were in "puff
mode" or going in or out of it. <Yeah, I saw that too. Either
that, or they'd eaten heartily right before the photos were
taken....> And when Chompers would puff and any other one of my
puffers does he gets a funky spotting on him. <Interesting. I
haven't personally seen a saltwater puffer puff up -- could you
describe this "funky spotting" a bit more, for my own
info?> It is not the same as the indented spotting that occurred on
his body when the Angel was picking on him. Just my opinion though.
<OK. I wasn't sure it was the same thing, but thanks for looking
at the photos.> I hope my lil tid bit with what I went though with
my lil Chompers will help out some. <Me, too. That's why we do
this! :-) > Did they say what kind of fish their dogface is in with?
They could have a "picker" in there too. <Possibly, but I
think there were too many spots for that to be the case, and the spots
kept increasing even when the puff was in isolation.> Take care. Oh
I do have a question for you, can you keep more than one dogface
together in the same tank? <I've seen photos of that being done
before. Dogface puffs are so mild that I think they'd be fine
together. You might want to rearrange your rock when you add the second
puff, so that any ideas Chompers has about "his territory"
get diffused.> Lindie <Thanks! --Ananda>
|
Porcupine puffer with possible Ich - 2/13/03 Our 6 inch
porcupine puffer has recently developed small white spots on his body,
but they seem to be concentrated on the dorsal side (or maybe just not
visible on the white belly). I am thinking that this may
possibly be saltwater "Ich". We have had him for
over 1 1/2 years, and nothing new has been introduced to the tank
recently other than food (clams, silversides, prawns, and marine cubes,
all frozen). This happened shortly after a stressful event
when he got stuck to a new powerhead. <Yep, stress will often cause
an Ich breakout.> I am a bit confused because he is acting totally
normal. Normal activity and feeding, and doesn't seem to
be scratching on anything or breathing heavily. In fact he
seems to be in perfect health other than these small white dots.
<Good signs.> The dots are very tiny, but not as round-looking as
freshwater Ich. He also may have one or two worms, but we
can't decide if these are actually worms extending from the skin or
something else. Does this sound like a parasitic disease,
<Definitely> and if so how should I treat it. <Standard
procedure for Ich: start with a freshwater dip in pH-adjusted,
temperature-adjusted water with Methylene blue added.... more info here
and on the linked pages: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/parasiti.htm
...just do NOT use copper for the puffer!> It is a 80 gallon FOWLR
tank with the only other inhabitant being 1 blue damsel that looks
perfectly healthy. <Keep an eye on him.> Thank you, Ariel
<You're welcome. --Ananda>
Porcupine puffer with Ich (part II) - 2/15/03 Thanks so much
for your quick reply! <You're welcome.> We will purchase the
Methylene blue and do the dip tomorrow. Just a few questions
on the treatment: How much Methylene blue should I add, and how long
should I dip for? <The bottle should have directions on how many
drops to add. Try to keep the puffer in there for at least five
minutes, but if he doesn't deal with it well and starts to look too
stressed, be ready to pull him out.> Any suggestions on how to get
the porcupine out of the main tank without introducing too much
saltwater to the dipping area? We have to catch him in
water, obviously, to prevent him inhaling air if he puffs. <Try
putting some food into a large container. Let him swim into it. Then
drain off most of the water in the container -- it's okay if his
back and tail get out of the water, just keep his nose in -- before
putting him in the dip bucket. If you use a sufficiently large
container for dipping, any saltwater that gets in will be less
significant.> I'm thinking we'll use a smaller Rubbermaid
container for the dip as long as the Meth blue isn't too expensive,
<Much less expensive than a new puffer...> otherwise we could us
a water change bucket from one of the freshwater tanks. <Sounds
good.> Also, would you recommend lowering salinity and raising
temperature in the main tank, or should we hold off to see if the
problem clears itself up? <Definitely raise the temperature. I would
lower the salinity gradually, and not below 1.018. We don't want to
kill off the live rock.> Thanks again! Ariel <You're welcome.
BTW, the damsel needs to visit the hospital tank, too; you'll want
your tank to be fish-free for a month so the Ich dies off.
--Ananda>
Puffers and copper, take 2 (07/26/03) <Hi! Ananda here
tonight...> I knew that scales fish do not tolerate copper well from
experience treating my Sweetlips and powder blue tang. I was reading
your website and it said copper is a good treatment for puffers maybe
its a typo but this is under the disease section of puffers.
"Puffer species are very susceptible to Cryptocaryon and
Amyloodinium (as well as the eye, skin abrasion, and gas from lifting
maladies already mentioned), but fortunately respond well to copper
treatments." <Hmmm. My response to another person who mentioned
this recently: 'I always try to steer people away from using copper
with puffers and other scaleless fish because they are *so* touchy with
copper. While it is *possible* to treat puffers with copper, it is also
*difficult* to maintain the copper at a level which is sufficient to
kill the parasites without endangering the puffer. ... Add to that the
fact that copper will also kill all beneficial bacteria in a setup, and
that means the hospital tank is likely to have some ammonia -- which is
deadly to any fish. The combination could easily prove too much for a
puffer to take. Freshwater dips are significantly less dangerous to the
puffers (as long as you keep their heads submerged so they can't
gulp air!). And the daily water changes are designed to do accomplish
two things: keeping the ammonia levels down and removing any Ich from
the bottom of the tank.' I've just read too many stories of
scaleless fish doing badly with copper treatments to recommend that
people treat Ich with copper, when it is possible to treat it with
freshwater dips, hyposalinity, and water changes. --Ananda>
Puffers and copper (07.25/03) <Hi! Ananda here this
afternoon...> I am sad to report that my puffer passed away.
<Sorry to hear that.> I noticed that he started to develop ick. I
had a quarantine tank setup already because I received a Angel that had
been shipped to me with ick. The tank was medicated with copper so I
placed the puffer in the tank. <Oh, no... never, never put puffers
in a tank with copper. Copper is very dangerous to scaleless fish, as
it will pass into the fish's system much more quickly than it would
for a scaled fish.> After about 2 minutes the puffer started to go
crazy spinning in a circle and trying to jump out of the tank I
didn't know what to do I couldn't place him in my main tank
since he had ick and he seemed to be suffering in the quarantine tank.
<Back into the main tank would have been good, despite the Ich. Ich
can be treated by other means besides copper (hyposalinity, freshwater
dips).> Wasn't sure why he went crazy in the quarantine tank I
keep all the stats the same in both my tanks so its a better transition
when I move the medicated fish to the main tank. <Yes, that is a
good idea... it's just that the puffers can not tolerate copper.
Sadly, you are not the first person to make this mistake. Bob, Jason --
could we put a banner or something on every puffer page on the web site
that says "Do not use copper with puffers!" or some such? And
have it be a link to a short text as to the reasons why? This sort of
story is far, far too common, and frequently fish store clerks
ignorantly recommend copper to people with puffers. --Ananda>
- Parasite Problems - Hello guys/gals I have a problem with
one of my tanks and wanted to see if you guys could help me. I have a
75 gallon tank in the garage with about 80 lbs of live rock with a blue
dot puffer, a clown trigger and a Hawkfish that is my holding tank
until my 375 gets in. Well everybody was doing fine for the longest
time then about a month ago I noticed that my blue dot puffer was
getting very skinny but he would still eat a lot therefore I went from
feeding every other day like I've always done to feeding every day
even though the other 2 guys were very fat. Well even with me feeding
every day the puffer kept getting skinnier and skinnier until he died a
few days ago and now my Clown Trigger is starting to look skinny. Is
there some sort of disease or parasite that could cause this or am I
just not feeding them enough. <Yes, I'm afraid so... nematodes
and Cestodes are the most common culprit - like tapeworms, they can
out-compete for nutrients.> I had the blue dot puffer for over a
year and he was a nice size for the longest time. I feed them all sorts
of stuff such as Mysis Shrimp, Blood Worms and Squid. Thanks for your
help. <Do try to get a hold of some Fenbendazole from your local
veterinarian. Your best bet is to put this fish in quarantine for about
three weeks and treat the quarantine tank directly with the
Fenbendazole for that entire time. The Noga book of Fish Disease
recommends 2mg/liter or 7.6mg/gallon of tank water. This should give
your fish the upper hand against these parasites. Cheers, J -- >
Diodon holocanthus with white spots Hello. I am writing
to you as I am rather desperate. For about three weeks my puffer
has had white spots (only on the fins). They appeared about a
week after I bought the fish. I tried different treatments
(lowering salinity, administering various medicine, FW baths). I
am avoiding copper as I read that it was not good for puffers.
<Agreed> Currently the fish is in a quarantine tank, being
treated by a mixture of formalin, Methylene blue and some other
thing (I forgot which).<would make sure you figure out what
this "thing" is> The problem is that as soon as it
seems that she is getting better, the spots reoccur. They have
never disappeared completely. I am not even sure that this is a
case of Ich, as the spots seem semi-transparent. Otherwise the
fish is great, she doesn't scratch and has a very healthy
appetite. Any advice would very appreciated.<Well if he/she is
eating and otherwise acting "normal" then I would stop
the treatment of these somewhat toxic chemicals, BTW it
doesn't sound to me like ICH. IanB> Thanks,
Katja
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Re: Porcupine puffer spots >Sorry Marina, just wanted to
clear up that I must have had a typo and there are no nitrites in the
system. I have moved forward with treatment....thanks for
your input! >>Ah! Great, makes *much* more sense
now. The only thing I could think was that you might have
been taking the tank apart and cleaning it thoroughly on a regular
basis, thus creating a new cycle with each cleaning. I know,
I know, but there really are folks (way back in the very earliest days
I was one of them) who do this! I hope the fish will soon be
on his way to recovery. Marina
Porcupine puffer spots It's been three days since I sent
this message. I don't know why I continue to not get
responses. I spoke with Anthony before about this and he
mentioned that puffer responses get directed to a "puffer
person". I don't know if something is happening
then, or if the person is just really busy. But this long is
unusual and I consider this an emergency. >>I'm sorry,
don't know what's up with our puffer lady. The
message title doesn't indicate any emergency. We
apologize. -----------------------------------------------------------
Hey guys! >>Greetings, Marina here. >I have had my porcupine
puffer for about 6 months now and things have been going
great. I had one small issue with a growth on its tail but
that has since handled itself. Within the past few weeks
though, I have noticed white spots on his skin beginning to
develop. They do not resemble Ich, as in on the skin, but
rather the skin itself seems to be spotting. The water tests
fine--NH3=0ppm, NO2=2ppm, NO3=5-10ppm, PH=8.2, SG=1.025. I
have no idea what this could be, nor if it is a problem.
>>I'm a bit concerned that you are still having *any* nitrite
readings, especially with a system six months old. This is a
problem, and consistent, long-term readings can lead to
stress. I would surmise that this may be the issue with your
fish. >I have included a picture to help identify what may be wrong.
>>It's a bit difficult to tell, but they appear
"dusty". If you agree with my assessment of their
appearance, then I suggest your fish has marine
velvet. Please see the following links: >> http://www.wetwebmedia.com/amylloodiniumart.htm
>> http://www.wetwebmedia.com/parasiti.htm
>> http://www.wetwebmedia.com/puffersysfaqs.htm
I do hope this helps. Marina
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Puffer Problem Hi -- I stumbled across your site looking for
information about my golden Tonga puffer, Ralph. <Hello,
Sabrina with you today, hoping to help you and Ralph> I need some
help with his breathing--I've had him a month short of two years
and have treated him for gill flukes at least twice with Paragon with
good success. This time he's not responding at all,
I've done four rounds and sometimes he will move it a bit but never
really open it at all. <By 'it' you mean his
gills, right? Well, gill flukes usually cause fish to gasp
and have rather labored breathing due to the parasites causing damage
to their gills, so the fish can't absorb oxygen from the water as
well. So far, this doesn't sound like flukes to me.>
He's about ten inches long, six around and is in a fish only tank
of 80 gallons with a pair of fire clowns, a squirrel fish and a coral
beauty. I'm running two emperor 400 hang on filters with
activated carbon and a remora protein skimmer in addition there are two
air pumps in his tank and I do at least a ten percent water change
weekly. <Sounds good, perhaps increase the amount of
water that you change weekly, and be sure to check your water
parameters, make sure everything checks out okay. You're
also going to want to consider going larger in tank size soon....>
What would you suggest I do next for him? He's just not
a happy puffer--he no longer wiggles and splashes when I come home but
is still eating his shrimp like a pig and some algae but not as
much. Any advice or suggestions would be greatly
appreciated, he's my big yellow baby and I'm just desperate to
maximize his life span. When I travel I even have my family
come over just to talk to him, he likes company! Thanks so
much, Janine <It may very well be that the very active squirrelfish
is stressing your puffer out, and may be that your puff's just
pouting about it, trying to let you know. Keep us updated -
hope Ralph perks up for ya!>
Puffer Follow-up Thanks Sabrina, I appreciate your
help. <Sure thing, Janine.> He is perking up a
bit. <Glad to hear that!!> I've discovered if I
make him "bite" at his food through the glass he'll cough
and that forces that gill open---so I've been doing respiratory
therapy with him and doing that 2-3 times a day <Honestly, I'm
not sure if this will accomplish anything - but it'll certainly
give him something to be excited about, and perhaps get him out of his
sulkiness!> ... and doing more water changes is probably a good idea
too. <Yup, water changes are always good ;)> I've
chucked in some Maracyn today just in case it is flukes but I'm
with you, I don't think that's it. <At
this point, I'd like to mention that it's always best to
medicate in a hospital tank, if you absolutely must
medicate. Many meds will really wreak havoc on your bacteria
bed, which will result in ammonia problems, etc., etc. - and especially
since we don't know what's ailing your puff (if anything),
it'd probably be easier on him to skip the meds for now.>
I'm leaning more towards some sort of obstruction and am
considering having my vet x-ray him except he won't know what
he's looking at once he develops it--- <Yeah, it seems to me
that most vets really aren't terribly knowledgeable about
fish. I've seen unbelievably crowded fish tanks at
vets' offices before, with incompatible species,
even. But I got to have somewhere for my cat to go when
she's sick!> I'll keep you posted and thanks again for the
help--I'm not sure the squirrel bothers him, it's more likely
the female clownfish upsets him. She darts at him when he
gets too close to the clamshell she considers her "anemone"--
Janine <It could very well be the clown, then. I know *I*
wouldn't want to get in a fight with an aggressive female
clown! Do keep an eye on your fishes' behavior, as your
puff's sulkiness may very well be from compatibility
issues.>
- Puffer Problems - <Greetings, JasonC here...> We have
a 150g tank with 160lb LR, Picasso trigger, Naso tang, Sailfin tang,
yellow tang, spiny puffer, snowflake eel and 2 general sea
star. I have been dealing with my LFS for setup and
everything seemed fine until last week. I am extremely
meticulous with following instructions and documenting readings,
actions, etc. and checking in with LFS. However, something
went wrong somewhere... I said that it looked like the puffer had
Ich. No problem, prone to it... then I said that it looked
like the yellow had it and wouldn't eat and the Sailfin had black
Ich. Again, prone and should go away... then I said looks
pretty bad and around the eyes. LFS came out to work on pump
vibration and told him to bring treatment with him in case I was
right. Turns out, I was right and almost everyone in the
tank has it and the puffer is really bad. <Sounds to me like you
would have benefited greatly from using quarantine procedures... making
sure all animals were parasite free before adding them to the main
tank. More on this here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/quaranti.htm
> That evening (Tues) we started first of 3 doses of 'Sano aqua
remedy' and switched to only frozen Formula One soaked in garlic
and Zo? Twice a day and tiger shrimp in am. Next day added a
cleaner wrasse and turned lights off. <Uggh... not the best selection
for this problem, and also not quarantined... you are only adding to
your difficulties. More on the cleaner wrasse here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/labroide.htm
> Today the puffer has refused shrimp at both feedings... he was
previously a good eater and ate out of my hand and would also eat
frozen and flake. His eyes are now totally clouded and his
color is pale. <Not good signs... am not familiar with the treatment
you added, but it is suspect IMO.> My LFS says there is nothing else
to do for the Ich outbreak and to let it run its course. <Terrible
advice - there is not only much you can do, but if you let any
parasitic problem 'run its course' you will likely end up with
a tank and no fish.> I am seeking other opinions because I have not
come across this non-action anywhere else. <I would agree and
consider 'firing' this fish store - their advice is worse than
a poke in the eye with a sharp stick.> Is there anything I can do to
try and save the puffer...should I really just leave the tank alone and
hope it goes away? <No, please don't let the tank alone - you
need to take immediate action and start by isolating these fish. Please
read the following links which will give you some background and
remedial actions to take: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/parasiti.htm
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/dips_baths.htm
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/treatmen.htm
> I suggested taking out the sea stars and doing a low salinity
shock in the tank or a fresh water dip for the puffer... no to both.
<Hmm... hyposalinity is only mildly effective in my experience and
should be part of a system of treatments. Likewise, your hunch that the
Seastars should be removed is correct - hyposalinity will kill
them.> Please advise as soon as possible... obviously at this point,
time is crucial and I really don't want to lose my first, or
several fish (pet) if I don't have to. <Start reading.>
Thanks in advance for your help! --PT <Cheers, J -- >
Puffer Problem? Hi--I recently bought a puffer fish from a
pet co and I am starting to notice that he is getting tiny little white
spots on him that look like little bubbles or specks of sand in his
fins and on his spines. Please tell me this is not that
awful ick that the store said that fish can get. If it is, is there
something that I can purchase to save my fish? Also, he
looks unusually plump. We have had a puffer in the past and
that puffer wasn't as fat as this one...is this ok...maybe he is
just growing? <With regard to the little white spots-
sounds a lot like Ich to me. After confirming this (see the disease
FAQs on the wetwebmedia.com site for more information), you may need to
move him to a separate aquarium for treatment.> Aside from the
puffer fish, our tank is about 2-3 months old now and we have had no
problem with the water until now...it is starting to look a little
cloudy. What does this mean and what should I do to make this go away.
We are running a Tetra 300 I believe it is...anyway, it is way over the
power we need for the 40 gallon tank we have <Just about the right
size, but more filtration could never hurt!> and we also are running
a skimmer though I am not sure if the skimmer is working well
enough...we just got it about 4 days ago. How do you tell if
it is working correctly? <A properly functioning skimmer will have a
very fine "smoke" of bubbles in the riser column, produce
very dry foam, and will yield a very thick, dark gunky effluent in the
collection cup> The tank is also starting to develop this brown
stuff that is sticking on the back glass, on the top layer of sand and
on the coral we have in the tank. Is this algae? Is it ok for the fish?
<Yep- sounds like brown algae or diatoms. The algae themselves are
not "bad" for the fish, but they are indicative of higher
nutrient levels in the system. While they are routine in most new
tanks, I am concerned in your situation, because you have a cloudy
water situation, which could be the result of overfeeding, high
nutrient levels, and diminishing water quality. Keep a very close eye
on your tank, execute regular, small water changes, make sure that the
skimmer is working properly, and use restraint in feeding your fish,
and don't overcrowd this relatively small tank.> Another fish we
have in the tank is a lion Dwarf. This fish will not eat anything but
feeder fish (Toughies). Is this healthy for him or should we
be concerned about the amount of dirty little tuffy fish we feed him?
<This fish can and should be weaned to frozen foods, such as krill,
Mysis, clams, etc. There is no reason for him to subsist on freshwater
feeder fish, okay? They are an inadequate diet, in the long run.
He'll be much healthier with a variety of foods!> Thank you so
much for taking the time to answer my questions! <No problem!
I'm glad that you found our site. Do refer to it for all kinds of
information on your fish and their care. Arm yourself with a good basic
saltwater book, such as Bob's "Conscientious Marine
Aquarist", or Mike Paletta's "The New Marine
Aquarium", and you'll learn a ton! Just take it slow, keep
reading, and feel free to ask us questions if you encounter more
difficulties! You'll be a successful aquarist with a little
knowledge and a few good basic maintenance habits. Take
Care! Regards, Scott F.>
Re: puffer with stringy growth and
re-growth Hey Bob & Anthony, <Hey Kel> Sorry it took
so long for me to respond........I was in Puerto Rico on
"business"........actually I did attend a few of the
medical seminars in between diving, hiking in the rain forest,
touring the old forts and of course visiting the Bacardi Factory.
<Ah, life is tough> In regards to the puffer, the pictures
are hard to tell.........but the history does not favor infection.
I am wondering if the "stringy, lint" "fuzzy
stuff" is a parasite or worm. I have had large isopods and
nematodes actually come out of a puffer's mouth. <Yick!>
The recurrence makes me think that this could be the case. I would
try a dewormer, such as Praziquantel (Droncit), Fenbendazole
(Panacur) or possibly Piperazine (I haven't had good results
the two times I have used this one). I would treat the puffer and
repeat the treatment in 7 - 10 days. Since he is eating, I would
soak his food instead of adding it to the tank water. I would also
start adding garlic daily for at least two weeks and then at least
once a week. I have dropped garlic oil on a nematode and it
actually shriveled up.......please don't report me the PETA!!!
The garlic will also help the puffer's immune system.
<Okay> Keep me updated and let me know if I can be of any
further assistance. If you get any better pictures, please forward
them as I am very curious. I'm sending you a pic that I took
off Culebra. I must have sucked down 500 PSI when I came around
this reef and saw him and he did not swim off and actually let me
fumble with my camera. I just got my digital camera and am trying
to understand & learn how to take underwater
pics.............so bear with me...........I haven't reached
your level yet!!!!!! <You will... and beyond. Bob Fenner>
Kelly aka Puffer Queen |
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Puffer Diet/Ich Bob, Steven, Anthony: <Anthony Calfo at
your service> I just received a Blue Guinea Fowl Puffer as well as a
Juv. emperor angel that I am quarantining in my 20 gal. tank.
<magnificent fishes!> I am aware of the veg. diet for the angel,
I was told that the puffer likes meaty items. How do I feed the new
addition? By hand, drop food in, leave a closed clam for him to chomp
on? Any help would be appreciated. <do read through the articles and
FAQ's archived on this site, please. Extensive info on this subject
is available here. In a nutshell though... this puffer needs a lot of
shell on crustaceans like frozen krill and live crayfish for example.
There is concern about getting overgrown teeth among other things> I
also have lowered my salinity down to 1.019. The place where I picked
up the fish indicated that he keeps his salinity even lower. I was told
Ich can not live in salinity lower than 1.014. I informed him that I
felt very uncomfortable lowering it that much and would go down to
1.019. I initially had my at 1.021, but I lowered before I acclimated
the new arrivals to the tank. I am aware you lower the salinity when
there is an outbreak of Ich, however he indicated that he rarely has
problem with Ich due to the lower salinity. <while some fishes
will take the extremely low salinity, many will not. 1.017-1.019 is a
nicely safe low end for most fishes> He is running a UV sterilizer
as well. Is the combination doing the job, or one will not work without
the other? <fine for temporary holding (like a LFS) but
unnatural to most and stressful to some fishes long-term> The
subject is debatable, but I value your recommendations and if you feel
that he is correct, I will lower even further. Thank you again for your
assistance on this subject. Regards, Mendy1220 <you've got fine
instincts. A little lower is OK, but do your water changes, feed well
and simply be ready to medicate if necessary. Kindly, Anthony>
Puffer with Ich My striped puffer came down with Ich, so
I'm treating him in the only other tank I have, an 18 gal that was
to be my Caulerpa tank. I have isolated the tank from my main tank and
it is a bare tank except for a heater and a magnum 350 with a micron
filter (all I have). The puffer is about 5 inches long. The other fish
in my 90 gal tank was a 6 inch tusk, which my LFS was kind enough to
treat for me in one of his tanks (leaving my main tank empty for 4
weeks). I'm fortunate to have a good store close to me (he even
quarantines his fish!) <Great to hear, read> My problem is that
after only 2 days the ammonia level in the 18 gal is 1.0. Can I let it
get any higher before I do a water change? <Hmm, well puffers
are more "ammonia tolerant" than other groups of marine
livestock, but I would be changing water if this value was exceeded
nonetheless> What should the level be before I change? How often
would you suggest I change the water considering the size of the tank
and fish? <As/when it exceeds 1.0 ppm> Also, I've got a
29 gal tank with live rock that I can move the puffer to once he's
been treated (using Copper Power), but I'm not sure how long he has
to be isolated (the Whitespot were gone the morning after I put him in
the tank with copper). <Two weeks> The last thing is that the
Copper Power bottle says not to do a second treatment, that it stays in
the tank, however, If I have to do many water changes won't that
dilute the copper concentration? <Yes... and the copper will
"leave" in other ways. Do monitor (with a chelated copper
test kit) and replenish the copper daily> I'm thinking I should
get a copper test kit and keep the level as recommended but I'm
hesitant without guidance. I appreciate your help immensely! <Oh,
yes... do get/use the test kit daily, record your readings, calculate
and re-apply the product to keep up the therapeutic dosage. Please read
through the "Copper Use" FAQs on our site:
www.WetWebMedia.com. Bob Fenner> Learning as I go, Hank
Re: Puffer with Ich One other quick question if you don't
mind... When I do a water change on the 18 gal (treating the puffer
with copper), how much water would you suggest I change? Thanks for the
quick response to my questions. I really appreciate the straight
answers... Thanks again, Hank <If you can limit these changes to a
maximum of 25%... Like four gallons... and pre-made water. Cut/paste
and read: http://wetwebmedia.com/water4maruse.htm Bob Fenner>
It's not getting better (Puffer troubles) Hi Bob, the
hairdresser again. Sorry to ask you again, but I don't know if you
remember, when I hooked up my 190g L-shaped tank, my puffers just got
off an almost 3-week Ich treatment with Cupramine. You advised me
to put them in the new tank, because more than 3 weeks with copper is
just not good. <Actually, any more than two weeks is too hard on
most any/all fishes> You also told me that the white spots may never
go away, I understand, but my puffers (mappa, starry, stars &
stripes, dogface and narrow line) still have a few spots, a few more
after I have put them in the tank. I am not sure what to do,
occasionally I'll pull one out and dip them in order to kill a few
parasites, but I just want to make sure that there is no other option
to rid or at least better the system of Ich, should I adjust temp and
salinity back to 1.015 and 85f or should I let things run it's
course. <Actually, a good friend (a helpful, knowledgeable
one) who is the "Queen of Puffers", Kelly Jedlicki... is a
"sister" to your arrangement... having many of these same
puffer species... in quite large systems. I am contacting her here...
think she would endorse the use of Garlic (she uses same, help Leng Sy
with his formulation)... as an adjunct to nutrition, treatment
here.> They don't really scratch too much, but is there anything
I could put in my water with the live rock?? <I would/do advise the
use of a liquid vitamin and iodide preparation as well. Added to the
foods daily, and the tank water itself, weekly> Also in the tank a
lawnmower blenny, banana wrasse and a tiny clown trigger without any
signs of Ich. Today I just had to put a cleaner wrasse in, since my
neon gobies ended up as lunch and cleaner shrimps are just not an
option. <No, more expensive meals> My water levels are great and
I even put grape Caulerpa in the tank, which on second thought I will
build a refugium for in the next week, since this stuff grows like
crazy. One last thing, the brown hair algae is gone, but I am still
fighting green algae not Cyano) that look almost like grass. The
lawnmower blenny is in heaven, but I am going bonkers. My rock
was so beautiful when I spent the money and now it looks like lettuce
rock...does the system need more time to establish? How long can this
take, the system is about 6 weeks old. <Just more time my friend>
My main concern is the Ich, <If this is what you are
observing> are there any other ways to help? I have a quarantine
tank, but I can't put all my little friends in there, it's only
20g. I know for sure there will never be any corals and such in the
tank. Is there something that won't kill all the live rock.
Take care Bob and talk to you soon, SASCHA <Yes, Bob Fenner>
Re: it's not getting better (Puffer health) Thank you for
your response, I'd love to get the input of your friend, (Kelly
Jedlicki) in regards the use of garlic, what brand/oil or the real
thing, <Leng Sy's/Eco-System Aquarium, or the real thing I
suspect. Did send her the post, and this one too... may be on
sabbatical or working (as a nurse).> which vitamins could I use or
buy rather in bulk? Selcon is just a tiny bottle for my 6 tanks. What
brand would be good but more available and cheaper? <Do come in
larger size. Do check with the etailers on the WWM links page here>
I would appreciate if you could forward my mail to your friend,
especially since she loves puffers as I do. <Done. Bob Fenner>
Thank you very much, SASCHA
Re: it's not getting better (Puffer troubles) How about
kick Ich, I know you don't like it much, but could I use this for
the Ich without destroying the live rock?? <I would not use this
product here. Bob Fenner> thank you, SASCHA
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