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bleaching a tank versus completely air drying a tank to
eradicate disease Darrel's go
8/25/13
Hello -- I have a 55 gallon QT tank. Many fish have successfully
gone through this enroute to my 1000 gallon main display over past two
years.
<Speaking for just about everyone at WWM - we're jealous that you have a
1000 gallon show tank. Just mentioning that.>
I fear that the latest two fish I purchased at a LFS that I don't
usually frequent had something wicked that they died of and have left
bacteria / nasties or whatever in this 55 gallon tank.
<Yeah, that is a vexing problem for all of us>
Without going into that == would it be the same outcome to drain the
tank down and wash all PVC pipes and plastic plants inside with vinegar
and wash inside of tank with vinegar wipe and then rinse -- and
then let it all completely dry to eradicate any nasties that may be
lurking inside?
<That depends entirely on the types of pathogens you're fighting - and
we don't know that>
I really do not want to work with bleach to eradicate -- so I was
wondering if any let's say flesh eating bacteria / uronemia, etc could
live and make it through being completely dried out? I
wouldn't think so. Thanks!
<Wait - aren't we making an assumption on the disease that will fit the
treatment?>
<I personally have no problem with all the techniques you mentioned.
In your position I'd use beach in situ to sterilize the entire system.
I'd drain the system and fill with fresh water then I'd add 2 cups of
chlorine beach (maybe three) while the entire system is running so that
the chlorine reaches the filter, tubing, accessories - anything that
makes contact with the water (except the filter material which would
have been removed and discarded anyway). I'd let that run for 2
days and then drain it, fill with rinse water for 4 hours, then drain
that and let it dry for 14 days. Meanwhile I'd take any
hiding tubes and accessories and I'd wash then in fresh water and
vinegar and then sun dry them for 3 days.>
<This process would kill virtually every possible pathogen, bad guy,
hitchhiker or insurance salesman in the entire system>
<The next thing is plastic plants. Probably a bad idea. If
the plants you're talking about are the ones I've seen -- take a close
look at the assembly: Formed stems end in little stubs and then
formed leaves with little sockets pressed into each stub …. Just imagine
all the nooks and crannies and protected surface areas in that assembly.
Every place that a bad bug can hide and any kind of medication carried
in a water column will tend not to follow. I agree it can
have a therapeutic effect on the fish and look better than any assembly
of plastic and PVC tubes -- but for quarantine purposes it's about the
same as a piece of coral or ocean rock -- it's everything we try to
avoid in quarantine.>
<Now you mentioned that you didn't want to use bleach and I went ahead
and told you to bleach everything. The thing is this:
Rinsing in fresh water OR air drying OR washing with vinegar OR
bleaching would probably work. ANY ONE of the four would have a
good chance of clearing your system - and here's that theory: We
have no objective evidence that most of the common pathogens don't exist
in our closed systems or are not already on the fish when we get them.
The notion that we are ERADICATING the pests is often a fantasy.
What we're likely doing is controlling the population of them to the
point where the fish's immune system can handle them. This is a
virtual certainty with Cryptocaryon irritans (Marine Ick) and the
principle would hold true for most of the rest of them.>
<Anyway … with all that as background - I have no patience for disease.
After the first time I saw a Yellow Tang that was dying of Crypt try to
swim itself to a cleaner shrimp in hopes of relief … I made up my mind.
At the first sign of Crypt I go directly to the Nuclear Option: copper
and between quarantines I use all the techniques listed above. No
one should have to suffer like that when we have the tools to try to
prevent it. -- That's also why I got divorced - but that's another
story!>
(What do I do with the cleaner wrasse that is the resident inhabitant of
the tank that was not
affected seemingly by the deaths of the latest two fish that died very
awfully? Shoot him? Just kidding....LFS says they will keep
him for me ( my usual LFS -- not the one with the nasties)..... if I did
all this -- then brought him back in to the 55 -- would whatever was in
the tank that was possibly spread to him as a carrier == could it be
reintroduced? He is seemingly fine 5 days post deaths of the two
fishies with the nasties.
<Sigh - this question flashes me back to my early days. What you
have to do now is quarantine the quarantined fish. If the LFS
exposes him to a common water column then he could spread a bug for
which he is a carrier (their problem) or ACQUIRE a bug from them and
BECOME a carrier (your problem). This is why I now seem to
have 7 various quarantine systems laying about the house and garage --
and why it's so convenient that Wal-Mart sells 10 gallon tank SYSTEMS
for $29.>
<My advice is to quarantine him for 6 weeks (not a minute less) and then
introduce him to the main tank. I'd say that he's done his
part for King and country and now should be taken off the front lines of
battle>
<Lastly … how about some pictures?? Take a couple dozen photos of
your 1,000 gallon tank. Don't forget the insides, tops, lights,
sumps, plumbing, timers and filters, etc. and put them in a Word
document with maybe some details of how it all came about? Brand
names you've liked and what you haven't? Send them to us and we'll
see if we can't smash it into a web page that we could out on the site.
It's not like you'd get paid for it - but you could tell your friends
that you're a "published author" and you name show up on a Google
search. Consider it?>
More re: bleaching a tank versus completely air drying a tank to
eradicate disease RMF's req. input 8/25/13
<<Darrel has asked me to render another opinion here>>
Hello -- I have a 55 gallon QT tank. Many fish have successfully
gone through this enroute to my 1000 gallon main display over past two
years.
<Speaking for just about everyone at WWM - we're jealous that you have a
1000 gallon show tank. Just mentioning that.>
I fear that the latest two fish I purchased at a LFS that I don't
usually frequent had something wicked that they died of and have left
bacteria / nasties or whatever in this 55 gallon tank.
<Yeah, that is a vexing problem for all of us>
Without going into that == would it be the same outcome to drain the
tank down and wash all PVC pipes and plastic plants inside with vinegar
and wash inside of tank with vinegar wipe and then rinse -- and
then let it all completely dry to eradicate any nasties that may be
lurking inside?
<That depends entirely on the types of pathogens you're fighting - and
we don't know that>
<<Mmm, rather than vinegar, our companies used chlorine bleach;
diluted...>>
I really do not want to work with bleach to eradicate -- so I was
wondering if any let's say flesh eating bacteria / uronemia,
<<Uronema; the protozoan?>>
etc could live and make it through being completely dried out?
I wouldn't think so. Thanks!
<Wait - aren't we making an assumption on the disease that will fit the
treatment?>
<I personally have no problem with all the techniques you mentioned.
In your position I'd use beach in situ to sterilize the entire system.
I'd drain the system and fill with fresh water then I'd add 2 cups of
chlorine beach (maybe three) while the entire system is running so that
the chlorine reaches the filter, tubing, accessories - anything that
makes contact with the water (except the filter material which would
have been removed and discarded anyway). I'd let that run for 2
days and then drain it, fill with rinse water for 4 hours, then drain
that and let it dry for 14 days. Meanwhile I'd take any
hiding tubes and accessories and I'd wash then in fresh water and
vinegar and then sun dry them for 3 days.>
<This process would kill virtually every possible pathogen, bad guy,
hitchhiker or insurance salesman in the entire system>
<The next thing is plastic plants. Probably a bad idea. If
the plants you're talking about are the ones I've seen -- take a close
look at the assembly: Formed stems end in little stubs and then
formed leaves with little sockets pressed into each stub …. Just imagine
all the nooks and crannies and protected surface areas in that assembly.
Every place that a bad bug can hide and any kind of medication carried
in a water column will tend not to follow. I agree it can
have a therapeutic effect on the fish and look better than any assembly
of plastic and PVC tubes -- but for quarantine purposes it's about the
same as a piece of coral or ocean rock -- it's everything we try to
avoid in quarantine.>
<Now you mentioned that you didn't want to use bleach and I went ahead
and told you to bleach everything. The thing is this:
Rinsing in fresh water OR air drying OR washing with vinegar OR
bleaching would probably work. ANY ONE of the four would have a
good chance of clearing your system - and here's that theory: We
have no objective evidence that most of the common pathogens don't exist
in our closed systems or are not already on the fish when we get them.
The notion that we are ERADICATING the pests is often a fantasy.
What we're likely doing is controlling the population of them to the
point where the fish's immune system can handle them. This is a
virtual certainty with Cryptocaryon irritans (Marine Ick) and the
principle would hold true for most of the rest of them.>
<Anyway … with all that as background - I have no patience for disease.
After the first time I saw a Yellow Tang that was dying of Crypt try to
swim itself to a cleaner shrimp in hopes of relief … I made up my mind.
At the first sign of Crypt I go directly to the Nuclear Option: copper
and between quarantines I use all the techniques listed above. No
one should have to suffer like that when we have the tools to try to
prevent it. -- That's also why I got divorced - but that's another
story!>
(What do I do with the cleaner wrasse that is the resident inhabitant of
the tank that was not
affected seemingly by the deaths of the latest two fish that died very
awfully? Shoot him? Just kidding....LFS says they will keep
him for me ( my usual LFS -- not the one with the nasties)..... if I did
all this -- then brought him back in to the 55 -- would whatever was in
the tank that was possibly spread to him as a carrier == could it be
reintroduced? He is seemingly fine 5 days post deaths of the two
fishies with the nasties.
<Sigh - this question flashes me back to my early days. What you
have to do now is quarantine the quarantined fish. If the LFS
exposes him to a common water column then he could spread a bug for
which he is a carrier (their problem) or ACQUIRE a bug from them and
BECOME a carrier (your problem). This is why I now seem to
have 7 various quarantine systems laying about the house and garage --
and why it's so convenient that Wal-Mart sells 10 gallon tank SYSTEMS
for $29.>
<My advice is to quarantine him for 6 weeks (not a minute less) and then
introduce him to the main tank. I'd say that he's done his
part for King and country and now should be taken off the front lines of
battle>
<Lastly … how about some pictures?? Take a couple dozen photos of
your 1,000 gallon tank. Don't forget the insides, tops, lights,
sumps, plumbing, timers and filters, etc. and put them in a Word
document with maybe some details of how it all came about? Brand
names you've liked and what you haven't? Send them to us and we'll
see if we can't smash it into a web page that we could out on the site.
It's not like you'd get paid for it - but you could tell your friends
that you're a "published author" and you name show up on a Google
search. Consider it?>
<<I do concur w/ Darrel's statements re the use of bleach and
quarantine. Specifics re both can be searched, found on WWM. Bob
Fenner>>
Re: More re: bleaching a tank versus completely air drying a tank to
eradicate disease 8/27/13
Hi -- thank you for the nice response guys -- I always get giddy hearing
from Bob ( had emailed WWM once before when setting up the main display
and had a question and Bob responded back) . I concur with your
assessment ( the LFS that sold me the dead fish says to use
Formaldehyde??).
<Mmm, very toxic (fumes)... I have used many gallons over the years... but
want to go on (official) record very much cautioning against
home/hobbyist use. Too dangerous... Even (Cl) bleach is really... should
only be used w/ open windows, on a warm, breezy day; or better,
outside...>
I don't want to use bleach though -- I don't want the offgassing
smell , possible splashing and bleaching of my nice things and possible
residual bleach in water if I don't do it right. I maintain
that because there is a hang on the side filter on this 55 tank (
it is not drilled) -- I can achieve a complete dry factor and use
that to kill all possible nasties -- if I just use vinegar
and then fresh water rinse and then air dry for some time
<Yes; I would (then) go w/ just the simplest organic acid CH3COOH
(vinegar)>
( sorry -- did not mention I had a hang on side filter -- so there is no
tubing where possible water could remain untouched) . The usual
LFS is not afraid to take the cleaner wrasse back -- and so will bring
him there in mean time. I will try to get some pics to you of my main
display. Should I email them to same email address?
<Yes please>
It is not a 1000 gallon tank though --it is a 1000 gallon system: a
265; (3) 150's ; coral frag tank and 300 gallon sump all plumbed
together. All tanks are built into a wall with catwalk access
behind the scenes. I like this better - it look like one big
tank the way it is framed -- but have the benefit of having different
biotopes. Not sure if you would think it is as cool anymore -- but
if so -- can try to send pics. I don't think anyone in St Louis
has anything like this -- it is pretty amazing and beautiful. It
is in my home office.
Sincerely,
David S. Sahaida
<Cheers, BobF>
Re: More re: bleaching a tank versus completely air drying a tank to
eradicate disease 8/27/13
thanks Bob -- good hearing from you. I will send pics of our set
up soon. take care
Sincerely,
David S. Sahaida
<Thank you David. B>