FAQs on
Paravortex, Black Spot, Black "Ich", Turbellarian Worm
Disease 2
Related Articles:
Marine Parasitic Disease, Parasitic Worms, Roundworms,
Related FAQs
on Blackspot Disease: Black Spot Disease 1, Diagnosis/Symptomology, Etiology/Prevention, Cures That Don't Work, Cures That Do Work, Products/Manufacturers...
& Fish Worm Diseases 1, Marine Worm Parasites
2, Marine Worm Parasites
3, & FAQs on Marine Worm Parasites: Diagnosis/Symptomology, Etiology/Prevention, Cures That Don't Work, Cures That Do Work, Products/Manufacturers... Flukes/Trematodes, Tapeworms/Cestodes, Leeches/Hirudineans, "Other" Worms and Worm-Like
Parasites... & Yellow Tang
Disease, Parasitic Disease 2, Parasitic Disease 3, Parasitic Marine Tanks, Parasitic Reef Tanks,
Cryptocaryoniasis, Marine
Ich, Marine Velvet Disease Biological
Cleaners, Treating Parasitic
Disease, Using Hyposalinity
to Treat Parasitic Disease, Roundworms, Yellow Tangs, Tang
Health/Disease,
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Paravortex on a sailfin tang 6/25/12
I have a desjardinii tang which is about 14 inches long, he is in my sps
aquarium which is kept at 11 DKH and 420-450 calcium ideally. The
temperature is 78-80 degrees consistently. I rescued this fish from a
tank full of tangs (mostly yellow) that had Paravortex, and he had not
eaten for a week. When I removed him from the previous tank I gave him a
8 minute freshwater dip in hopes to kill the Turbellarian.
<Usually does it. I'd add a bit of formalin (and aeration) on the next
go>
A few days after being in my system he began to eat. I have had him for
2 months now and he was doing great until I upgraded a week ago to a
bigger aquarium. He did break out with some Ich which I expected, but he
also has a slight haze over his eyes. He is also eating, but not with
the voraciousness he once did. I sometimes can see small black lines on
him which are around 1/4" long. My problem is that since he is dark in
coloration I cannot conclude whether he has black Ich or not. I do not
want to lose such a nice fish, but quarantine and treatment will be
difficult on such a large fish.
<Just the dip/bath>
I know the best treatment is Praziquantel. I would assume that an 8 minute
dip would kill the worms, but at the same time cannot explain the black
lines
<"Just stress">
which seem larger than black Ich in my experience. Any advice would be
greatly appreciated.
Thank You,
Terry Baldwin
<Better to move the fish to a clean setting after the bath:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/dips_baths.htm
and the linked files above. Bob Fenner>
Black Ich, in comm. setting
2/24/11
Dear WWM,
<Nora>
I own a small saltwater store and have issues with various fish
diseases (as to be expected).
<Ah yes>
I'm really more into coral so I was hoping you could help me with a
fish question. Recently black Ich popped up in one of the systems.
It is present on a yellow tang and a unicorn tang. I've treated the
system with National FishPharm Praz-tastic at first 8 spoons / 200
gallons for 1 week with the skimmer turned off (as read online) and
recently with 20 spoons / 200 gallons (as read on the package).
It's been about 3 days and it's only getting worse. I
haven't gone the freshwater dip route because I don't want to
remove the fish into another system.
<Mmm, this really is the best route...>
I don't think dipping the fish and putting them back into the same
system would get rid of the black Ich
<Correct>
so what do you suggest I do?
<Dip and move...>
I want to rid the whole system of black Ich without leaving it fishless
for 2 months as we need to have fish in our systems to sell.
<Place fishes/groups that are much less likely to be infested w/
Paravortex in the infested system>
Although I do have a hospital tank it is meant for a couple fish not a
whole system worth of fish.
Thanks for any input,
Nora
<Mmm, you could try purposeful cleaners alternatively... You have
read
here: http://wetwebmedia.com/blkichcuref.htm
and the linked files above? Bob Fenner>
Black Spot Disease
4/6/10
Sorry in advance for this rambling question (novel),
I recently bought a yellow tang who developed black spot disease (or so
I think) I noticed around 6 (and yes I counted them) spots on him that
look like finely ground pepper. I read that the best treatment is a FW
dip followed by a QT period of 4 weeks without recurrence.
<This is so>
Some back story first. I have a 55 gallon QT with a 2215 Eheim, a
Coralife Super Skimmer 65 gal, 30lbs crushed coral and about 10lbs LR
and 2 clowns as permanent residents and to help keep bacterial filter
going. I have had 2 A. Ocellaris, 1 Domino Damsel,
<The alpha fish here>
3 peppermint shrimp, and a reef lobster
<Predaceous>
in my main 120 gal display (water parameters have not been perfect
(ammonia <.25 ppm, nitrite 0ppm, nitrates < 10 ppm, ph 8.0-8.2,
temp 77.5 F, clowns have been in tank for about 2 months with 30 lbs LR
and 80 LBS live sand using Eheim pro series 3 for tank with Berlin
x2-turbo skimmer).
Unfortunately after buying the tang and placing him in the QT (with
acclimation of 1 cup every 10 for over 1:30 (it was a big bag) minutes
after 40 min temp acclimation time) I noticed the ammonia shot up over
night from 0ppm to more than .50ppm. To try to fix this in hopes that
ammonia will decrease and bacteria will catch up I did a partial water
change (around 20%) this lowered the ammonia to less than .25ppm. Later
that day I retested and found .50ppm ammonia. So, thinking that the
rise in ammonia was due to no/poor cycle (though testing during setup
showed a cycle and all the LR and CC was growing algae) I took the poor
guy out and moved him directly to my display tank (which is larger and
has better/more filtration) once again acclimating him. I realize this
may have been a mistake but seeing as I had so few fish in there to
begin with I was more concerned about the tang¹s health than that of
the damsel and clowns.
On to the point. My LFS told me it would be ok for me to do all I did,
except the transfer to the show tank, with what I had and water quality
wouldn¹t be an issue. Now I think my tang has black spot, but as I
am relatively new to the hobby (tanks had living stuff in them for 2
months and I¹ve been doing reading since last august) I¹m not
sure. I want to tank the tang out and perform a FW bath on him then put
him back in the QT tank (small ammonia jump in first 48 in display).
The question comes in two parts: 1) have I sufficiently stressed out
the tang for now and should I just leave him alone for a bit (he is
eating whatever I put in the tank brine, Mysis, green Nori, full
spectrum pellets, and red algae growing in the tank even though I
acclimated him twice in as many days and on the first try he got
twisted in the net :() or should I take him out and dip him to prevent
the infection from worsening (if it is indeed an infection) or
spreading.
<Mmm, up to you... this Turbellarian infestation (not an infection,
as the causative organism is a worm, not bacterial, fungal...) can be
transient, is rarely "that" debilitating. Read here: http://wetwebmedia.com/blkichsympf.htm
and the linked files above>
The second part (2) is: how should I handle the QT situation with the
rapidly rising ammonia (or was I premature in moving the tang)
<... see WWM re... Here: http://wetwebmedia.com/ammmarcontr.htm
and the... and: http://wetwebmedia.com/quarsysfiltrfaqs.htm
>
should I put the tang back in the display or should I put him in the QT
(or buy more LR). Everything I have read describes ammonia spikes when
adding new fish to a young tank as being relatively small and they
dissipate quickly however no nitrites were shown by the tests either
before or after the water change so I was afraid I messed something
up.
<Keep reading>
Thanks for the hours of your life you may have wasted answering my
questions,
Arthur
<... Ok...>
(p.s. If you want to remove something from this email to make is
shorter its fine with me)
<No worries. Bob Fenner>
Yellow tang, black spot and other fish
4/14/2009
Hello,
I've been reading your FAQs. pages on black spot disease and still
have a couple of questions. I have a 125 gallon FOWLR with a queen
angel a red Coris wrasse and a niger trigger all still in the later
juvenile stages. I also have a 90 gallon reef with a very small
Juvenile imperator angel, a green chromis and a recent addition yellow
tang. ( I did quarantine him without medication for two weeks before
adding).
After a couple of weeks I noticed black spots on the yellow tang and
after observing him for a week with no improvement I pulled him and the
other fish from the reef tank
<Mmm... I don't know re "pulling" all, or even the
Tang>
and put them all in quarantine and treated with Coppersafe.
<Might not be treat-able with Copper...>
I noticed no improvement in the tang after a week and ended up adding
carbon, performing a major water change and a fresh water dip with
immediate positive results.
<Ahh! As proscribed>
Is my reef tank now unsafe to return the fish to for several months?
(Any fish?)
<I'd try it and see. See WWM re Paravortex... if
"this" is what "it" is/was, not a great cause for
concern>
I seems like my only other option is to add them to my FOWLR system,
which I have add very good luck keeping healthy and disease free.
<Mmm, your universe appears to be a bit too didactic... There are
diseases/health all about you...>
They all seem to be doing well in quarantine. But it is not a good long
term option.
Will they eventually be safe to add to the FOWLR? Or like ick, do I
need to be concerned about future stress related outbreaks of black
spot disease on the tang?
<The small Turbellarian which is what most folks refer to as
"black ich" can become resident...>
I was not planning to mix the angels, even though I have seen it done
countless times successfully and am willing to try. I'm thinking of
adding a divider if I introduce them temporarily to temper any
instinctual aggression. Thank you, any advice you give is much
appreciated!
Mark
<I would not be overly concerned Mark... Look into stocking an
interesting biological cleaner and return these fishes to their system.
Bob Fenner>
Black spot, maybe not 12/26/08 Hi
there, <Hello Dan> Sorry to be a bother, but I have a
confusing situation over here. I have a 90 gallon reef tank with;
yellow tang, blue tang, two clown fish, anemone, clam, cleaner
shrimp, sally light foot, purple lobster, leather corals, hammer
corals, some polyps, mushrooms and other bits and pieces. As well
as about ten, well established mangroves growing in my sump
refugium. Everything was going quite well until I added a yellow
eyed Kole tang (which I do love) to my reef. Two weeks later I
noticed black bumps and some color fading appearing on my blue
tang. As well as some lateral line and forehead peeling on my
yellow tang. So I went on the Internet and found your site. I
think my blue tang has the black spot disease, <Mmm...
actually... you would very likely see this now, concurrently on
the Yellow, Zebrasoma flavescens... I think you may be witnessing
Microsporideans... not really treatable... and not very
debilitating> but I didn't notice any info about the spots
kind of bumping out a bit, <Good description... and likely
shiny, kind of shaped like cones... whereas Paravortex is dull,
flat...> and one day he was fine and the next he has 20 spots
on him. So I am guessing I need to quarantine him, but what about
the Kole (who is fine except for only eating off the rocks so
far) and yellow tang? <Again... or for emphasis, I would NOT
move these fishes... at least as yet...> I think I can deal
with the yellow tang as it seems as his peeling is do to poor
water quality <?! What leads you to think this?> and
stress. I am about to do a water change and hook the skimmer back
up (after two years off due to the mangroves). <I would>
Should I quarantine all of the tangs? can I do them all together?
What product would you recommend? <No, yes, None> Could I
do it in my mangrove tank or will the medicine possibly hurt
them? <Depending on what's used, yes> Sorry again and
thank you for your help. I have never had a sick fish before and
was upset to see him, I do have a good photo if needed and also
don't know how to find this page again. <Mmm, should be
here with your message/response. Please do send the image
along> Thank you Dan <Welcome. Bob Fenner>
black spot, maybe not 12/27/08 Hi there again
Bob. <Dan> I was worried about waiting another day to treat
my fish, so I made a executive decision and went against your
advice to wait to move the three tangs into a quarantine. I see
why you said wait as it does seem to cause a lot of stress (for
the fish and my girlfriend and I) to try to catch them. I was
only able to catch the infected blue tang, but did so without
disturbing my reef which seemed good as I have seen what happens
when you start moving rocks around. I went to my LFS and showed
them the same photo of the blue tang I sent you, <I still
haven't seen this image> and he told me to quarantine all
three and to treat the fish with aquarium Munster proto Marin
Intensiv, <What are the ingredients here?> which I did do.
I was reading the instructions and noticed that it said nothing
of treating black spot or Microsporideans. I know I should have
waited until you saw the photos but he seemed to be getting worse
and I wanted to get him treated as soon as possible. I have the
feeling I am not treating him with the right medication. What
should I do now? <...> I know you will have probably
answered all my questions in my second email but just in case,
should I keep treating him with the proto Marin, and if not than
what? >... nothing< should I catch and quarantine the other
tangs? <... already answered> What about the other fish?
<... How would I, anyone be able to determine what is actually
going on here?> I have been reading about dips - would you
recommend doing this? and should I keep my fish quarantined for
4-6 weeks? also I have a Marineland hot magnum that came with
cloth like filter like those in vacuums, would this work for my
hospital tank? or if not could I fill it up and run it with the
sponge filters? Sorry for going ahead as I have read some of your
articles where people did the same thing and they seemed
annoying. Also sorry for two emails at once, I just wanted to
keep you posted and if you thought the blue tang would be better
off back in the reef tank, another day would not have gone by.
Thanks so much for all your help. I appreciate it. Dan. <...
Please, see, read on WWM re Acanthurid Health, Protozoans,
Infested Systems... B>
black spot, maybe not 12/27/08 Hi Bob Thank
you for getting back to me so fast. What lead me to believe that
the yellow tangs peeling is do to poor water quality is that, It
had happened to him before and when I started trying to improve
my water quality it went away. He may have started peeling before
I introduced the Kole tang, and I have noticed that a lot of the
yellow tangs in LFS do have the same problems. I guess I
diagnosed him with the head and lateral line disease. I did have
a few mangroves slowly die in my sump a few months back when on
vacation, and when I questioned the guy at the LFS about his
peeling he guessed that my nitrites were high, which they were,
and said it generally happens when water quality is low and they
are stressed. Do you think thou I could be wrong and my yellow
tangs problem could be related to the blue tangs black spots?
<Mmm, indirectly, yes... the pitting is very likely mostly due
to "poor water quality"... is a type/form of
HLLE...> I should mention that all of my fish are acting
normal and are as hungry as ever, thou I have noticed the blue
tang rubbing a bit on the live rock. I couldn't find any
information on Microsporideans. Will my other fish be affected if
I do not quarantine the blue tang? I read some where to remove
activated carbon, I run Chemi-pure in a hang on filter should I
switch it off or change products? <... I would keep using the
Chemi-pure> As for the blue tangs bumps, on the blue part of
his body there are bumps with a black spot in the middle and
around the spot on the rising sides of the bump seems to be
whitish. However on his black markings he seems to only have one
or two white spots, and on his fins and tail just black dots no
bumps. Does this sound like Microsporideans? <Could be...
but... net cause/s?> Is there anything I should do? Hopefully
the photos are usable and helpful. Thank you very much for your
time Dan <Keep reading. BobF>
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Re: black spot maybe not... Reading?
Definitely not 1/4/08 Hi bob <...> You have
been so helpful so far. All three of my tangs are in a quarantine
tank now. I don't understand why they shouldn't be qt??
there are obvious spots all over one tang that must have come
from my new fish, as I have never had any problems before. Why is
that medicine toxic? Thanks Dan <... Dan, learn to/use the
search tool. B>
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Black Itch on Yellow Tang?
8/29/08 Gday Bob, <AJ> Im unsure what's wrong with
my Yellow tang. It has a small cluster of very small black spots on its
right side half way down the body. They dont seem to bother it and
havent spread either Ive noticed them there for about 2 months he/she
doesnt scratch either. At the moment its in a QT tanks and Ive treated
2 x with Paracide and 1 x with Trisulfa tablets + 2 x freshwater dips
and the cluster is still there. What could it be please? The fish eats
well and is in no distress. Thanks AJ <Mmm... is very likely
Paravortex... Read here: http://wetwebmedia.com/paravortexfaqs.htm and
the linked files above. Easily treated... not very debilitating...
Read. Bob Fenner>
Praziquantel and Paravortex - 7/1/08
Morning crew, <Good morrow to you> I suspect my yellow tang may
have developed black ich. <Developed...> With its classification
as a Paravortex, a Turbellarian worm, would Praziquantel be a suitable
remedy? <Mmm, unnecessary but yes...> I understand that a
freshwater dip is also recommended, but would Praziquantel have better
effects of eradicating the Paravortex life cycle in the tank itself?
Thanks, Brian <Likely so... though time going by w/o host/s almost
always "does it"... You have read on WWM re? Bob
Fenner>
Black Ich Yellow tang
5/30/08 Hello Crew <Wayne> I've read a good portion of
your FAQs on Black Ich. While I've learned a lot, I'm still
seeking your advice. I don't want to over react. If you read on
about my QT problems, hopefully you'll understand why I'm
hesitant to QT my Tang. My tank is a 210, with 220 lbs of LR. I have 7
Green Chromis, 2 Firefish, 2 Scarlet Cleaner Shrimps, 5 Peppermint
Shrimp, a few crabs and snails, Frogspawn and green star polyps. The
tank has been up and running for about 3 months now. <Not
long...> I just added the Tang after 2 weeks in QT (more on this
later). He's been in the display for 1 week. Yesterday I noticed
8-10 black spots that seem consistent with Black Ich. It's a really
subtle infestation at this point. <Paravortex is... sublime> My
Water params are good. Temp is very consistent @ 80, Ammonia, Nitrites
are zero, nitrates are 2-5 ppm. I do weekly 20% water changes using
RODI water. Salinity is 1.025. Ph is always low...usually 7.9 - 8.0.
I'm working on this. The Tang has just started (yesterday) to use
the cleaner shrimps. It's so neat to watch. Should I be QT'ing
this fish? <Mmm, no. I wouldn't> Or should I wait it out?
<Yes...> Maybe some good nutrition, time to settle in the
display, and help from the cleaner shrimps will clear this mild
infestation? <Yes and this turbellarain is not "that"
debilitating> I feed a mixture of foods (formula 1 and 2, green and
red seaweed, mysis shrimp, Spirulina brine shrimp/flake food, and a
modified Eric Borneman recipe). The tang eats all readily. I do plan on
adding a Powder Blue, and Hippo Tang down the road. <After a few
more months at least> I'm hesitant to QT this fish as I have a
hard time maintaining good water params in QT. The reason he was only
in QT for 2 weeks, was that I couldn't keep up with water changes.
I have a 28gal that I use for QT. I use a sponge filter with sponges
that have been seeded in my sump for more than 6 weeks. I can't
keep nitrites down. I have always had problems keeping up with water
changes in QT tanks. I was doing 15 gal water changes daily, and that
wasn't enough. This is nothing new, I've had other tanks in the
past, and have always had problems keeping Ammonia and Nitrites down.
<Yes. Typical challenges> What would you do? FW dip and Qt this
fish, or give it a chance in the display? <This last> Also, just
want to confirm that this parasite won't infest my Chromis and
Firefish. <Not likely> This parasite exclusively feeds on Tangs
correct? <Mmm, no... has been found on other families> So without
a tang in the display, the life cycle will be disrupted. Am I correct?
<Yes, usually... but can take months to die out> Thanks again for
all your help! Don't know what I'd do without the Crew! Wayne
<I'd proceed as you are now... not worry re. Likely the worms
will be consumed by the cleaner shrimp. Cheers, Bob
Fenner>
Re: Black Ich Yellow tang
05/30/08 Thanks for your prompt reply Bob. Just a few
questions pertaining to adding the Powder blue and Hippo Tang. You say
not to add them for "a few more months at least." Should I
wait a few months after there are no more spots on my Yellow tang? Or
are you saying to wait a few more months because my tank is young.
<The latter> Is the idea to not add any fish until my tang is
completely spot free? I fear he might always have a few spots on
him...and if that's the case, I'll have to QT at one point or
another. Thanks again Bob/Crew! Wayne <Welcome my friend. BobF>
Invincible Black Ich??? 12/10/07 Hi Bob, <Lane> I
purchased a Powder Brown Tang about 6 weeks ago. I placed the
tang in QT and treated with Cupramine for a week as preventative
for ich. The fish also had a few black spots which I thought
might be black ich. <Appears to be so> I hoped the copper
would help with this as well, <Ah, no. If anything, would hurt
the host...> but it did not appear to do anything. After week
one I replaced all the water in QT and did a FW dip. <For how
long?> I thought it may take a few days for the spots to go
away, but after several days of observation the tang appeared to
be getting a few more spots. I did another FW dip this time with
Methylene blue. Once again it did not seem to help. I then
decided to try Prazi Pro treatment. After about one week I still
did not see any improvement, <Wow!> so I decided to do
another FW dip and then try treating with Rid-Ich (malachite
green and formalin) in the QT. <Yikes> After several days
the spots still remained but the fish appeared to be getting fin
rot and what appeared to be stressed breathing. <I can
imagine> I decided to do a 100% water change and another FW
dip with Methylene blue. After several days the fish was healing
nicely from the fin rot, but still has the dreaded black spots. I
decided once again to try treating with Prazi again, but this
time I increased the dosage from 2.5 mg/l to around 4 mg/l. It
has been a week and I am still not seeing any signs of
improvement. <Very strange indeed> The spots seem a little
more pronounced than before, but the fish does not scratch or
seem overly affected. The fish loves algae and is eating tons.
<Good> The biggest thing is the fish has a very pale body
(semi-transparent). Is this something other than black ich?
<Can't tell w/o microscopic examination> How can I get
rid of this? <What you've done should have...> I really
want to save this fish and really want to get it into my display
tank. Your thoughts and suggestions are greatly appreciated. I
have attached a picture for you. Please disregard the white spots
as they are just bubbles. Thanks again. Lane <Mmm, a decision
(as in nothing is decided until it is done) needs to be made...
whether to try re-doing a treatment regimen (if it were me, with
another source of Praziquantel or other vermifuge, see WWM) OR
just placing the Acanthurus japonicus directly in your display...
in the hope that the (likely) Paravortex will cycle off in time,
not infest other fishes there (not all are susceptible)... Which
will you choose? Bob Fenner>
Re: Invincible Black Ich???
12/11/07 Bob, <Lane> Thank you for the input. Just to
answer your question, the dips were approx. 10 minutes.
<Gosh... these should have "done it"...> Anyway,
you recommended a different Prazi treatment or placing the fish
in the display tank and hoping for the best. I don't want to
do this as I have a yellow tank <Tang I'll take it...>
as well. I would feel much better keep my display free of issues.
<I see> What do you think about Jungle Buddies Parasite
Clear. It contains Active ingredients: Praziquantel;
N-[[(N-Chlorophenyl) amino] carbon 1]-2,6-difluorobenzamide;
Metronidazole; Acriflavine - Water ??? <The last as a
carrier/diluent... I do think this product would work as well>
It sounds reasonable, but I does not say anything about saltwater
Compatibility. Thanks again. <All the ingredients are fine for
use in seawater... NOT in your main system though. BobF>
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