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Need Help, Mushrooms looking limp and not opening all the way, Cnidarian Allelopathy mostly 8/24/07 Hey all. My tank has been up and running for 4 months. The first coral I added was mushrooms (4 green mushrooms on one rock). They have been doing great the whole time and have even sprouted two new mushrooms on the rock. The mushrooms started looking really limp and only opening to about half their normal size a couple weeks ago. Color of the mushrooms look good. Mushrooms are at the bottom of the tank, under a little ledge, and have not been moved since I put them there a couple months ago. No other corals near the mushroom. All parameters look good. Calcium is low, 340, but has been at that level all along (only softies and LPS in my tank right now). I plan on switching salts when I run out, changing from Tropic Marin to Reef Crystals to see if I can bring up the Calcium without getting into dosing. My Parameters have been very consistent for the past couple months. They are: SG: 1.025 Ammonia, Nitrites and Nitrates are all 0. Phosphates .1 Calcium 330-340 PH ranging between 8.1 and 8.2 with lights off / on. Alk 2.9 Temp 82 to 83.6 (heats up to 83.6 when the MH comes on) I first noticed the problem when my central AC died a couple weeks ago. Tank heated up to 86. <Yikes...> Brought the temp down with ice bottles in the sump, and got the AC running within 48 hours. <I'd leave the lights off on such hot days... turn on more toward night> Another thing that changed, is I added a second powerhead. I have the mushrooms between two rock structures, and they don't appear to be getting blasted with current. I have a 53g tank with about 25x flow now (was about 12x). Have a MJ1200 and added a Tunze6025. Also have a Eheim 1260 for a return pump. <Corallimorphs often are found in quite stagnant settings> There's only one other softie that's not doing well all of a sudden, and that's a yellow colony polyp. <... Here could be a major portion of the problem...> When I bought it from another reefer, it was brownish and "fringe" for lack of a better word, on each polyp were long, and the dots in the middle of each polyp, were bright yellow. They have since changed to completely bright yellow, and the fringe is really short. I suspect these changes are because I have stronger lighting than the reefer I bought them from had. This coral seems a bit limp to me too. I have a Aussie Duncan which is doing awesome. <Duncanopsammia? As in a Dendrophylliid I take it> Bought one head, and it has sprouted 3 new heads. Have a zoo that is doing great and spreading. <...> Leather looks great. Hammer looks great. Any ideas on the mushroom? <It's losing to more dominant Cnidarians... the Sarcophyton, likely the Zoanthid...> Could it be the temperature spike from when my AC died and it just takes a more than a couple weeks for the mushroom to recover? <Could be a contributing factor> Nothing except for the mushrooms seemed to be affected when the AC died. Should I be feeding this mushroom? I've tried putting a little frozen Cyclops or enriched brine near it, but have never seen it take any food. I haven't been adding any phyto or anything, but tried adding a capful of Kent Phyto last night and left the return pump off for about 45 minutes. Don't know if that will help. Thanks! Pam <Too much too soon... I would move the Mushrooms to another system, spiff up your skimming, start the expensive ongoing use of carbon... And read on WWM re Cnidarian Allelopathy... use the search tool here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/WWMAdminSubWebIndex/question_page.htm Bob Fenner> Re: Need Help, Mushrooms looking limp and not opening all the way 8/24/07 Ahh...the great Bob Fenner. <...? Wait, (goes to mirror... same ole non-hair combed petfish kind of guy... ego-deflated, returns to the computer...> Thank you so much for the response. <Welcome> I had never heard the term "Cnidarian Allelopathy", so at least now I have something to read up on. <Neat term eh?> I will take your advise on the carbon. <Good... advice> I don't have another system to move any of these corals to. The mushrooms are one of my favorites. Should I remove the Yellow Colonial Polyps, zoos, or the Sarcophyton if I want to keep the mushrooms, or do you think Carbon would handle what I guess you're saying is chemical warfare? (or is that something completely different?) <Is of a sort and more encompassing... takes in "stingers", agglutinants... sweeper "tentacles" and more...> I thought of one other possibility. I have never tested for, or dosed Iodine. Could lack of Iodine be a cause? <Again... perhaps a co-factor> I checked my LFS but they didn't have a test kit, and I don't want to dose without testing, but I will order a Iodine test kit online just in case. <Ah, good. Likely once-weekly administration per dosage... would not overshoot...> One last question, do you think I'd be better without the two powerheads, and just go with one powerhead and the return pump like I had before I started having this problem with the Mushrooms? <Maybe... but what re the rest of the life in the system? If there's room, I'd just move the Mushrooms to a less-circulated area...> I only had the MJ1200 and the Eheim return pump for flow, and added a Tunze6025, but I thought I could pull out the MJ1200 and just go with the Tunze now if that would be better. (53G tank which is 31.5" x 19.5" x 19.5") Corals I have so far if it makes a difference on flow: Sun Coral (just added two days ago and doing well) Waiving Hand Xenia (also just added two days ago and doing well) <... I'd be slowing down on these non-ordered/directed additions here...> Aussie Duncan (doing great) Tan Sarcophyton with Green Polyps (doing great) one orange centered zoo (doing fine) Bright Green Mushrooms (Doing poorly) Thinking of adding a Hawaiian Feather Duster. Thanks so much Bob. Pam <Please do read re the Compatibility of each of these Pam... here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/marine/inverts/index.htm A very good idea for all to understand the "order", propensity for one group of animals... mainly Cnidarians in this case... to out-sting, out-grow, overshadow, displace one another... and to formulate, adhere to a plan of placing the less "winning" groups... of appropriate size... first... spacing time and dimensionally subsequent additions... using techniques, gear to limit the warfare that is/are these environments, including their living complements. BobF> Re: Need Help, Mushrooms looking limp and not opening all the way 8/27/08 Hi Bob. I took your advise and added activated carbon this weekend. I also moved the Leather to a corner of the tank (it was only a couple inches from the mushrooms). <Yikes!> I'm not sure if it was the carbon, or moving the leather, or a combination of both, but within two days, my mushrooms have totally perked up!!! Not completely back to their full glory, but close!! I'll have to read more on the compatibility of corals. Thanks for your help! Pam <Thank you for this update Pam... and do keep reading. BobF> Corals... or what have you... Alcyoniid allelopathy... 8/20/07 I have a 55 gallon reef tank with a 22 gallon fuge, Remora Protein skimmer, 2 power heads hooked to a wavemaker, 100Ibs of live rock. Tank has 4 fish-crabs, snails, 1 coral banded shrimp, and a cucumber. Corals include 1 open brain coral, 12 candy cane coral, 1 zoo, 2 colonies of mushrooms, and 1 leather coral. <How long has all this been mixed together? In what order was it introduced? You have read on WWM re te Compatibility, Systems for all these?> Lights are 260 watt power compacts which run 10 hours on daylight and 12 hours on actinic. I test for Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrate-all read Oppm. PH, Calcium, ALK, Gravity, all within parameters. I dose 1 gallon of Lime water daily for evaporation. The tank has been up for 3 years. I do 5 gallon water changes weekly, using ro purified water. All fish and inverts are thriving. Coralline algae spreading like crazy. The problem is the last 4 months there has been a slow decline in coral health. <Not atypical> My brain which I fed every other day will no longer open up or feed. <Losing to the more dominant non-Scleractinian species> 1 colony of mushrooms are shriveled up. The zoos look dull and not fully expanded also. My candy cane coral-leather and other mushroom colony look healthy but have only been in my tank for around 4 months. <Bingo...> I do not add trace elements or any other additive other then the lime water and weekly water changes, using instant ocean salt. Any suggestions would be appreciated. <Mmm, well... likely the Sarcophyton is the big winner here... You can/could remove it... or speed up the amount, frequency of water changes, add chemical filtrants, improve skimming, add/change-out some substrate (LR and LS...)... I'd be reading re Alcyoniid allelopathy... maybe starting here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/alcyoncompfaqs.htm and the linked files above. Bob Fenner> Please help! Cnidarian sel... w/o system info. 8/19/07 Hello, i backtracked again and bought myself a small Coral Beauty fish! The fish was in such good condition i had to buy it. <Mmmm> The tank is running well, and all the fish seem happy and are eating great! I would like to add some Invertebrates to my system. So i wondered which hardy species you would suggest. Such as hard and soft corals. I would just like a few to make an interesting aquascape. could you suggest some for me please? Clint Hamilton <Please peruse here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/marine/inverts/index.htm The various group's Systems, Compatibility, Selection... FAQs files. Bob Fenner>
Death of LTA Causing Pollution -- 3/29/07 Hi crew, <Hello, Brenda here> I haven't written in a while, but have a somewhat urgent question that I can't find the answer to. I had a purple long tentacle anemone that mysteriously decided to leave his spot in a rock and apparently somehow tore his foot in the process. He actually looked as if I had forcibly moved it. I never touched it by the way. <Did it come in contact with a power head?> Anyway it was injured and then began to go downhill and within a couple of days totally disintegrated, died and had to be removed. In the process of removing it, it pretty much came apart and many parts of it (very small parts) went everywhere throughout the tank. <Yikes!> The tank is 150 gallon with a large ASM skimmer so I wasn't too concerned and figured that the skimmer would take care of getting the stuff out of the water, along with the crabs. <Not necessarily fast enough. I suggest a large water change also. I also don't recommend crabs with anemones. Crabs have been known to pester and attack these creatures.> I have no idea what happened to make him move or why he died, but my question really is this: I have a tube anemone that I have had about two weeks. <Your tube anemone is likely the reason your LTA decided to move. You should not house two anemones in one system.> He has been very active and healthy, stays totally open all the time and looks gorgeous; he has never closed since I have had it. This morning I get up and the tube anemone is TOTALLY closed. <Check your water parameters.> I have not seen this at all since I got it. Last night he was wonderful and seemed normal. Could he be suffering some sort of reaction to the death of the purple anemone? <Yes, from the pollution.> I have heard something about toxins getting in the tank when anemones die. Would this have happened and caused the other to have problems? <Yes, ammonia is extremely toxic.> My water parameters were tested the day before the purple anemone died and they were all perfect. No ammonia, no nitrates, nitrites, phosphates, SG1.024, <Salinity at 1.026 is best for anemones.> Temp is always 78-81 night to day and I have lots of light MH and actinic, lots. The calcium is steady at 440 to 460 and the ph 8.4. These tests were the day before the purple anemone death; I have not tested this morning. Any help or insight into this would be most helpful. I don't want to lose this other anemone too. <You definitely need to monitor your water parameters closely after something dies. Have saltwater ready at all times in case of an emergency.> Thanks, Debi <You're welcome! Brenda> Ich on corals? Cnid. allelopathy, esp. dangerous in smaller vol.s 3/28/07 Hi guys! I'm hoping you can help me out of what I'm afraid might be my 1st experience with Ich (or marine velvet). I have a 24g Nano with MH lights, temp=80, spg 1.025, ph=8.3-8.4 (depending on am or pm measure), calcium=450, nitrites, nitrates and am=0. I do 3g H2O changes weekly. We have 2 true Percs, a royal Gramma, 2 peppermint shrimp, assorted snails and hermit crabs. Corals include Blasto, assorted mushrooms, Zoas, sun coral (my favorite), toadstool and Palys. <Yikes... trouble with all these disparate Cnidarians down the road... with growth... do settle on not adding any more species... and DO be diligent re maintenance> I noticed white spots on our Palys 4 days ago, and they have gotten worse. I removed and gave to a friend to put in his hospital tank (I am getting one tomorrow!). <Good moves!> Now I noticed that the Gramma is looking beat up. and scratching itself on the live rock. He's not breathing heavy, though. I think I see 2 pinhead white spots on the fin of 1 of the Percs. I plan to take all 3 fish and put in hospital tank as soon as I have it set up, but I'm wondering if the corals are at risk of this parasite, since it seemed to start on the Palys. <Mmm, not likely a parasite... of any of them... But very likely a matter of the fishes being exposed to types of chemical warfare twixt the stinging-celled life... "Caught in the cross-fire" so to speak"> I have had them for 1 mo already. I just don't want to treat the fish, and wind up with all the corals getting this white stuff too! Please advise! Thank you!! -Debbie <Please read here: http://wetwebmedia.com/cnidcompfaqs.htm And the linked files above... Perhaps my write-up on Tom Walsh's small systems from years back... The "Garden Mix" of Zoanthids, Scleractinians et al. you list is possible, though not really practical in small volumes... these sessile animals species have varying, but highly effective strategies for "saving space", hogging light, gathering food exclusively to themselves... These potent stinging, poisoning, over-growing mechanisms easily play havoc in small captive systems... As you are experiencing. There are a few strategies for limiting the morbidity and mortality here... Read on. Bob Fenner> Re: Ich on corals? Bambi vs. Godzilla short parody/explanation 3/29/07 As always, thank you for the prompt reply! You guys are wonderful!! Just so I understand correctly what "next steps" to take, if the likely culprit is chemical warfare rather than a parasite, would the best course of action be to relocate some of the corals into a separate tank, rather than placing the 3 fish in a hospital tank and treating with copper, etc.? <... please read where you were referred to> I do think the hospital tank approach may be premature, <Agreed> as none of the fish appear to have breathing difficulty or white spots -- only the Gramma is scratching on the rocks very frequently, and seems unhappy. If a larger and separate tank is what you suggest for separating the corals, which of the following corals would get along best together? (red & green mushrooms, green and blue hairy mushrooms, button polyp frag, Zoas, xenia, toadstool leather, sun coral). Please note that I have looked for a Compatibility chart for specific corals, <Good point... As far as I'm aware there is none that is comprehensive... too much of "this goes with that, but not with this other" factual matter to graphically present> and I just seem to get general information about keeping 6-10" spacing, etc. <Is a good idea... as is starting with small specimens, colonies, the less noxious/stinging first... Additionally, frequent, partial water changes, use of chemical filtrants... diligence in cleaning/operation of your skimmer...> The reason I am so confused is that many reef tanks I've seen appear to have many different corals living together in close proximity. <All a matter of balance, time going by, and all potential trouble/time bombs... as in the wild, what appears to many folks, or as so pastorally "painted" as calm, serene cohabitation is in actuality an extremely aggressive world of chemical and physical warfare, kept in check (but not static by any measure) by dilution of water currents, predation, meteorological events...> I love the look of a reef "garden" with lots of colors, but I'm not sure how to avoid the chemical warfare issue. :-( I greatly appreciate any advise you may have! Thanks, Debbie <Much, MUCH that should be written on this overall topic... Perhaps a good deal by you... And much to tie-in with promoting biotopic presentations, careful organism selection, placement.... Bob Fenner> Lysmata wurdemanni vs. Coral
3/21/07 Hi Everyone, <Hello Bill.> Thanks for all
your help over the past few years. <I'm glad it has
been useful.> Your expertise has been amazing. <Thank
you.> My question basically applies to Peppermint Shrimp and corals.
<Okay.> I have a 75 gallon tank. I had a
lot of Aiptasia in my tank during the first year, and added 3
peppermint shrimp. I know they can be evil critters, but I
think they hilarious to watch, and they killed my Aiptasia in less than
a week. <They are rather comical and hardy compared to many of their
cousins. And not to get off the subject but I surmise you figured out
the source problem of the Aiptasia?> One of my favorite fish has
been flame Hawkfish. I added him, without consulting your
site first, and he killed 2 of my shrimp. <Yes, expected
behavior.> (Actually saw him dart across the tank and
knock the snot out one peppermint that came out for some
food). I liked the shrimp more than the Hawkfish, and
trapped the Hawkfish and donated him back to my local fish
store. I added one more peppermint so that I now have
two. <Lesson learned.> Fish in my tank are: 1
clownfish, 1 black cap Basslet, 3 Firefish goby and 1 bicolor
blenny. <A good mix in this size tank.> I have
recently been adding corals to the tank. I have: Candy Cane,
Frogspawn, Toadstool Mushroom, Colony Polyps and Brain Coral
(Wellsophyllia). The Brain and Frogspawn were added two days ago.
<And you are concerned about the shrimp'¦> My
lighting in this tank is an Orbit Lighting Fixture: 48" w/4-65W
(SunPaq Dual Daylight (6700°K/10000°K) and Dual
Actinic (420 nm and 460 nm) bulbs). <Fine for what you are keeping,
just replace the bulbs every 6-9 months, a year at the VERY latest as
PC's depreciate in lumens rather quickly.> I work from home and
came down this morning to work, and saw one peppermint on the frogspawn
munching away, and the other peppermint on the brain coral munching
away. <Uh-oh.> I was assuming this wasn't good and just moved
these two corals to my NanoCube in my bedroom. After reading
your site again today, I see that some folks have problems with these
peppermint critters and their corals. <Correct.> So my question
to you is: Are there any types of corals that are 'Peppermint
Safe'? <I have found that they are less prone to
picking at larger noxious colonies of soft corals, such as Octocorals
and Sinularia. Keepers of hermatypic corals like Acroporidae
seem to have 'luck' with them as well (but you don't have
the lighting for those)'¦what's important to keep in mind
is that there are no guarantees and there is always a risk.> I like
my shrimp, and would like to keep them. Mine are out and
about all the time. They are friendly and I can hand feed
them. But I also have a reef tank, and would like to add
some more coral life to it as well. I have not seen them
pick on the other corals, but who knows what happens at night?
<Another thing to keep in mind is that when animals do become
predatory, they will pick on the easiest, least resistant
targets. Just because the shrimp may be ignoring one colony
as of present does not mean they will continue to do so once the others
are removed.> Best regards, <To you as well.> Bill
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