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Fish not eating 1/14/19 Main Tank Additions/Compatibility/Marine Angelfish
Compatibility/Systems 8/24/10 Blue face angel, large angel sel. HI and thanks for the opportunity for my question. I have the opportunity to purchase a 30 cm Blue face angel. I personally think it's wrong to capture fish this size for the aquarium trade but means nothing to the blue face I'm thinking of buying. I would like to ask you if you think it's wise buying a fish this size, <I do think it's a poor idea to send such illiterate messages... use your spelling, grammar checkers, please> ( I really feel for the poor thing and it is a stunning fish), and what size tank should it really belong in so it's quite comfortable. I have a 550 litre tank, 4x 2 x 2 ( sorry we work in litres in Australia) to accommodate this fish while another tank can be established. Any advice you can give would be greatly appreciated. <In general large specimens of Pomacanthids collected wild fare poorly... You can read re my opinions re Euxiphipops on WWM. Bob Fenner> Blueface angel eyespot disappearing with growth Hi, <Hello there> I've been in the marine aquarium hobby about 25 years. I started way back in the "caveman" days with undergravel filters and crushed coral. I have definitely had my share of heartbreak and disappointments with ich until I "learned" the absolute essential of quarantining. I then became a fanatic about quarantining - and I do it a minimum of 6 weeks just to be sure. Since I've done this one simple step of quarantining, I've have never had ich in my main systems. I've still lost some while in quarantine, but all of my main systems have remained ich free. Yes, ich-free is possible. <Agreed> I actually started doing the transfer method (aka water change method w/ bare bottom vacuuming today) back in the late eighties. This is somewhat of an intense process, but I believe is the very best method of eliminating ich in quarantine - not to mention that it's chemical-free. I was thrilled that you guys are such proponents of intense quarantine practices upon discovering your website some years ago. It is probably the single most important thing to learn in order not to become frustrated and drop out of the hobby. <Perhaps so... vies with a lack of ready, useful information IMO> Anyway, about four years ago I moved and was able to set up my dream tank: A four hundred gallon (96"x30"x32"). FOWLR, DSB, 125 gallon sump with two Red Sea turbo skimmers - I know, I could stand to upgrade here but the newer turbo series is way better than the old venturi models that Red Sea has. Anyway, the current occupants are: 10" Blueface Angel, 6" Rock Beauty Angel (alive and doing well for over four years now :-)), 4" Flame Angel, 4" Lemonpeel Angel, 8" Blue Tang, 8" Blonde Naso Tang, 6" Purple Tang, 8" Harlequin Tusk, 5" Clown Trigger, 4" Stars and Stripes Puffer, 4" Bicolor Goatfish, 4" Yellow Goatfish, 3" four-stripe damsel, and two 2" yellowtail damsels. All are doing well and thriving. A special thanks to Bob Fenner regarding the Goatfish. <Welcome> I read his article about them which inspired me to try them - mostly for stirring up my sand. They are really cool, both behaviorally as well as functionally. Now to my question. Or, I guess it's really more of an observation. I have had the Blueface angel for about 5 years now. I got him at about 4-5 inches with his full adult coloration which included the black eyespot on the rear top fin. As he has grown this eyespot has slowly faded and has now disappeared. It is totally non-existent now. I have seen pictures of wild specimens where this eyespot is still present on similarly very large full adult specimens such as mine is now. Does anyone know if this disappearance of the blueface's eyespot with age/growth is normal? Or, is it related to something else? <Interesting possibility... perhaps the "false eyespot" has utility in the wild (where there are more predators), but whatever mechanism for its expression is somehow lost in captivity...> Thanks for all you are doing for this hobby. Tom Duck <Thank you for sharing your experiences, opinions as well. Bob Fenner> Pomacanthus navarchus Angel Compatibility Hey. Well, I guess this question has been asked several times, but with the fact that idea that a different angel has been in the place of this one. So, here's the question. I have a 120g aquarium that has been running for a while and never been stocked. I have a 30g anemone tank that I was planning on emptying into this. The anemone tank has a green tip E. quadricolor (7" across), a rose bubble (10" across), purple haddoni carpet (16" across. I've had this one for 2 years and it looks just as good as it did at day one.. I hear carpets don't do well in captivity).. <They don't. 2 years is but a mere fraction compared to 200+ in the wild.> As far as the fish, there are a pair of gold stripe maroons, pair of pink skunks, royal Gramma, 4-line wrasse. I was reading on the P. navarchus and I saw that it in some cases can be kept in a reef tank, with SPS but not LPS.. I know that angels are generally unpredictable, but I really would like to have one... <Everyone would like a Blue Girdled Angel> ...and I can't seem to find anything regarding this fish with anemones... <Anemones won't fare too well with this family of fish. The anemones will eventually be picked to death.> ... but at the same time my clowns are really protective with their anemones, but not aggressive outside of them. They only bother fish who come within a couple inches or so, and even then it's not in the sense that they nip fins, but more so that they just get really close and kind of "push" the fish without biting at it. Does this make sense? <Yes> Anyways.. I would like to know if the P. navarchus has any history of attacking bubble tips or carpets. <Yes> Any info would be greatly appreciated. So in the end the extra bonus question is what corals would you definitely NOT put this fish with? <I would not trust them with any corals. When the angels are juveniles they're not quite so bad, but as the grow they get worse in that regard. I also think your 120 is too new a set up to put an angel in. James (Salty Dog)> - Pairing & Identifying Majestic Angels - Hello, I have a question regarding keeping (2) Majestic Angelfish, a male and a female, which, I was told by an employee of one of the LFS is possible, but from what I am reading (and probably should have been reading last week) about the Angelfish in general is that they are loners and do not get along with others for the most part, especially Angelfish of the same species. <Actually, some of the larger angelfish hang out in pairs in the wild, including majestic angels.> I assume this applies to attempting to keep a male and a female Majestic in the same tank? <This would be a challenge.> Or can it be done? <It could be done... the fish would have to be caught as a pair, and generally speaking they don't pair up until later in life which means you'd have two very large angels.> Which I attempting to do in a 75 gallon tank FOWLR, which I know is going to be too small in the long run, I do plan on getting a 220 gallon in the next 5-6 months from this same LFS. <While this is an admirable plan - I too really like these angels - I would strongly advise you to wait until you have the 220 and even then, don't think it's large enough for a pair of large angels. More importantly is that like human couples, you can't just throw a male and a female in a box and expect them to pair by chance... there's more going on there. Would be expensive and difficult at best, and would almost certainly result in the loss of one, perhaps both if you try to force things in either the 75 or with an unmatched pair.> (Identifying:) The employee at the LFS attempted to help me identify my existing Majestic (3-4 inch juvenile) by the description I gave, a lot of orange coloration vs. yellow, which I was told meant that I probably had a female and the Majestic I looked at last week and ended up purchasing last night (4-5 inches) has mostly yellow vs. orange in coloration and I was told he was purchased as a male from their supplier. <I could be wrong, but I've never heard of this system for identification for sex in these angels. What is more likely is that these have come from different geographic areas. There is a picture of a pair in the new Kuiter Angelfish book and I can't tell the difference between the two.> But he also told me it is somewhat hard to tell what you have, a male or a female, when the fish are this age/size. So my question to you guys is as far as identifying the two fish as male/female, is this accurate information I was given, and is it too early in these fishes life to identify them? <My first inclination is that it's not even remotely true, and even if it were true, I don't think it's reliable enough.> Thank you greatly for any info/help you can provide .(your site is great and an excellent source of information BTW) Erick <Cheers, J -- > Angel In Distress? Hello, I have been struggling with a new majestic angelfish. I added it directly to my main tank (there were only a few damsels and 2 small clown fish in there, so I didn't feel I was risking too much) <I understand your thinking, but try to explain that to the damsels! Seriously, quarantine is good for the new fish, too- so do try this technique in the future.> The fish seemed okay at first, although the fish store guy didn't know what he was doing, and got the fish caught in the net. I first thought it was velvet, but now I'm not sure. I couldn't tell if it had little white dots at first, or just a skin irritation, so I treated with Greenex to be on the safe side. The fish was eating fine for about a week, then after treatment, the skin looked worse, like it had fungus on it and the eyes got cloudy. <This stuff can become pretty nasty on the fish; you have to administer it carefully> I used Melafix, (after removing the Greenex) and the fish looks better, but now it wont eat. <Yikes! Successive medications when you are dealing with a fish that is in peril is not a great idea...Sometimes it's better to hold off on another round of aggressive medication and simply observe for a while.> Two of my damsels died. (skin slime, fin degeneration, like the angel) Two small clownfish went on a hunger strike for a day, but are eating again. What could it be??? <Hard to say if this is a disease, or "collateral damage" from the medication. You may very well have been dealing with a parasitic illness and a secondary infection, but it's hard to tell from here. At this point, if the angel is not declining further, I'd opt for a few water changes, good circulation, and a few days of observation. After a few days, if the fish does not show signs of improvement, or even declines, then do take your best guess at what you are treating after reading up on diseases on the WWM site. Hopefully, the cloudiness will have disappeared at that point, and you can ascertain precisely what you're dealing with. If this is, indeed, a parasitic illness, I'd be inclined to try copper sulphate. Yes, copper can be tough on some fishes, but in my personal experience, the larger angels can handle it if administered and monitored carefully. Hang in there! Regards, Scott F.>
Injured Navarchus Beauty II >Thanks so much for your quick response. >>You're welcome. >Please continue your opinion on the antibiotic treatment. >>There's not much else to say beyond what I outlined previously. I prefer Spectrogram because the applications where it's worked amazingly well (including stopping degradation in starfishes), and it's a good, relatively inexpensive antibiotic. >I picked up some "Aquatronics Paragon" last night in case I need to go that route. Do you know this product? >>Yes, I do, and there is nothing at this time that indicates the need to use something this strong. Please go to the Aquatronics site and read the uses for *both* Spectrogram and Paragon. Paragon *might* be indicated for some parasitic infections, with antibiotics for the usually associated secondary bacterial infections. However, there is nothing in your situation that shows a need for this. Again, I strongly recommend Spectrogram. http://www.aquatronicsonline.com/ >Is there something else you might suggest? >>Not at this time. >I will add the Selcon to his food today. I have been using Vita-Chem with his diet of various frozen foods, Angel formula, flake, pellet and Seaweed Selects daily. I have the patience and time to treat him but I know he wants to be back in the main tank as he can see it and tends to stay on the side of the QT closest to the main. >>I'm sure he does. >He and the Blondie Tang are buddies and even share the same sleeping areas. Thanks again. >>Remember, this appears to be an injury, don't simply treat to treat, wait it out, a few days to a week should be fine, and if he's doing well, carefully place him back in the display. I strongly suggest you do this as early in the day as possible so he avoids bumping himself. Hopefully no one will have established territories such that he has to stand up for his own turf. Marina Fish and Diving (A Navarchus and HI) Hi Guys! <Hello Lesley> Hope you are all keeping well. Got a couple of quick questions on fish and another one related to diving so here goes:- <Okay> We bought a 4" Majestic Angel <A good size to start with> last week (unfortunately, without reading your info first). He'd been at the LFS for a couple of months, feeding well etc. He did eat during the first couple of days but after that he discovered he could hide in the reef so now we hardly see him and if he sees us first, he's off, faster than a speeding bullet! I am worried that because of this hiding, he is not getting enough, if any, food at feeding times, however we do have a few corals which I am sure he nibbles on when no-one is around. Do you think we should be worrying? And will he become more gregarious as he gets settled in? <Is this a large system? Hundreds of gallons? With lots of hiding spaces, rock...? I hope so> Secondly we have a fairy wrasse (not sure what sort, pinky purple and orangey in colour - very technical!). This fish was incredibly shy at first too but now is always out and about and feeds from our hands. We want to get a Scott's wrasse. We have a 100g tank - as they are completely different colours, will they be less likely to fight, if they fight at all? <There is a possibility that if these are two similar size, markings males... that they might. Is this the same tank the Majestic is in? It's too small... I encourage you to return the Angel> Finally, we are going over to Hawaii (Big Island) in May (hurrah! Can't wait!) Staying at the Hilton Waikoloa Village. <A beautiful hotel... We have a place on the Big Island (just mauka, or up hill from Kailua (the principal town, on the lee/Kona side of the island), and have had a few friends visit the last weeks that I've taken to stroll through the Waikoloa Hilton... great grounds and artwork... the "Dolphin experience"... and neat swimming pools with slides!> My husband is a certified diver and just wondered where the best dive sites are in and around Kona and what animals he is likely to see. Also, are the reefs around Hawaii really as bad as we have heard? <Bad? As in...? Some are easier, harder to explore, access... for shore entries? There are MANY possibilities> Fish are his first love and he's hoping to see some turtles and manta rays. <Many good places, mainly depending on the weather/waves... it's been terrible the last few weeks, with very high surf coming in to the west... but will likely improve. Do cruise up to Puako (north of the Hilton), perhaps through Mauna Lani (the resort... and take in the Puako Petroglyphs as well... many Green Sea Turtles on the large area for shore entries there... And a good distance to the south is "Two-Step" that you can visit along with Honaunau, the City of Refuge... your concierge or rental car company can give you good directions to this and other attractions off the 11... There is Kuhaluu or White Sands Beach along Alii Drive as well (near the 5 mile marker)... Ali <I is the "main drag" in Kailua Town... There are many more spots depending on weather, your degree of comfort/ability... The Mantas here are fantastic to see, but you need to go on a specialized scuba boat dive to experience them first hand. Check with any of the excellent dive services re. My fave is "Big Island Divers"... ask Norm there most any question re local diving> He's dived in the Maldives, Mauritius, Turks and Caicos, Bahamas and Grenada. <He'll enjoy it here then... usually 100-150 foot visibility, temp. of water mid to upper 70's this time of year... and a good quarter of the animals only found here... MUCH to see, enjoy> We're going to Bonaire in December - any particular dive sites you would recommend there? We're hoping to do the Red Sea and Great Barrier Reef next year - pennies permitting! <All excellent places. I strongly suggest you do what I do... read cursorily over the Net, the usual "travel guides" and specialty print works on diving, natural history of the areas> Anyway, thanks for all your help and advice as always. Lesley <A pleasure to share. Bob Fenner in Holualoa> Majestic Angel not eating!! 1/8/03 Hello Robert & Crew You guys (gals) have helped me in the past with my Blue-Ring Angel and Golden Puffer; which are still doing EXCELLENT!! <Hi Gary. Adam with you today. Glad to hear things are going well!> My question is as follows: I purchased a Majestic Angel from my LFS about 3 weeks ago, quarantined him for 10 days (not one problem) put him in another tank (parameters are excellent!!) with a Christmas Wrasse and a Pearlscale Angel (those 2 are as thick as thieves!!). <Kudos for quarantining, although I would go a bit longer as a rule (two weeks minimum). The Majestic barely ate in quarantine at all!! He ate fine at the LFS; he was there for 4-5 weeks. <This could be the stress of moving, being in small quarters, etc. This fish did have 4-5 weeks to settle in at the LFS.> I've been feeding him EVERYTHING!! i.e. Spirulina flakes, Sea Veggies, Emerald Entree, Formula 1 & 2 etc. all with no avail. <Sounds like a nice variety. You may consider trying frozen Mysis. These are often irresistible to stubborn feeders.> I was thinking of putting him back in quarantine and dosing with Maracyn (it contains B vitamins which stimulate appetite). <I have never heard this about B vitamins, and would hesitate to medicate a fish that isn't sick. If time and other foods don't entice him to eat in a couple more days, I might move him back just to eliminate the competition.> I know the species of Angel takes some time to relax in a tank setting. His color, fins, scales, eyes, behavior (swimming fine, all around the tank.) is superb, (THIS IS ONE BEAUTIFUL SPECIMEN). Any suggestions, comments would be greatly appreciated!!! Regards, Gary Lewandowski <You are right on the money. I would give the fish a few more days to get used to it's new surroundings and tank mates. Do try Mysis too. As long as it remains healthy, I would only move the fish again as a last resort. Good Luck. Adam> - Majestic Angel Questions - Hello Crew! First off, I would like to say that I have been a devoted fan and student of your web site since finding it almost a year ago. Like most all of your readers, I have found your site to always be an invaluable source of information for whatever topic I may be looking for. However, I could not find a definitive answer in the archives for my questions so I decided to write you. I have a 4" Majestic Angel (Euxiphipops Navarchus) that has changed to his adult colors and about 98% in to the adult pattern with the exception of the lighter blue outline near the tail fin that eventually breaks up into more of a dotted line. <Nice.> I acquired this fish from my LFS a week and a half ago. He / she is eating and adjusting quite nicely in my 30 gal. quarantine tank and is destined for my 200 gallon tank in about another 3 - 4 weeks which has been running for close to 9 months now and is stocked with over 200lbs. of Fiji live rock and around 25lbs. of Tonga branch live rock. <I would introduce this fish sooner rather than later if all signs look good. Water quality is a must with these fish to do well.> I have planned from the outset that I wanted to have a FOWLR although a few soft corals that came on the rock have flourished with no predators. The current residents in the 200 gal. tank are: 1 - Christmas ( Ornate ) Wrasse 1 - Coral Beauty 1 - Royal Gramma 1 - Lawnmower Blenny 1 - Azure Damsel 2 - Fire / Blood Shrimp My Navarchus was a resident at one of the LFS for nearly 5 months and was eating from day 1 of arrival. This store usually receives larger size specimens almost weekly and I suppose the 6 - 8" are more attractive to the average person looking for this species thus the reason he stayed so long. I must admit, that over the last couple months, I have had 2 larger Majestics on hold at different stores that perished within two weeks due to not eating, stress, etc. and I was beginning to wonder if this fish would be a good decision to add to my tank. I read on WWM that a good size is usually 3 - 5" specimens, so I decided to go with him seeing that he was eating and didn't have the typical Navarchus characteristic of being the shyest fish in the tank. I am currently offering: Ocean Nutrition Formula 2, Angel Formula, Pygmy Angel Formula, Brine Shrimp Plus, Formula 1 flake, & Life Line Mysis shrimp soaked in Selcon which he gobbles up enthusiastically. Finally, to my questions. The other day I noticed that on one side, he exhibited a lighter area on the scales right behind his gill cover. Upon moving in closer, I observed that the soft tissue making up the outer most edge of the gill cover was in fact gone. I realized the lighter area was just not covered by the gill cover tissue that was missing most likely from damage incurred by bumping into live rock he is housed with. It's only been a few days, but will this part of the gill cover grow back? <Yes, in time.> Also, the light blue edging on the tail fin is interrupted in a few tiny spots which may have been from past tank mates nipping at him or just not filled in due to his sub-adult stage. Will this blue lining eventually fill in with time and maturity? <All of the above... could also be a genetic difference... something to enjoy for its uniqueness, if only temporary. Seems a bit large to still be displaying juvenile colors.> Thank you in advance for your time and wisdom. Regards, Joel <Cheers, J -- > Feeding Techniques For A Finicky Fish Hi Bob, <Actually, Scott F. in today!> I have your book "The Conscientious Marine Aquarist". Great book! <Isn't it? A real "keeper", IMO!> Anyway, I wanted to tell you about my new Majestic angelfish. I bought him a couple of weeks ago....before I saw the dismal writings in your book about their failure to eat and thrive in captivity. <I'm sure that Bob will agree that many CAN thrive in captivity (records of 20 years or more exist!), but source and collection techniques can play a large role in success...> Anyway, when I got him he was fat and healthy looking, but I could not get this shy fish to eat anything. After spending $179 before tax at my local fish store for this 5 inch fish, I was kind of upset as he did not eat for the first 4 or 5 days. I decided that I was determined to get him to eat. He cost too much money to let die! He would not touch flake food as he is so slow that the smaller fish in the tank would gobble it up before he even came out from the rocks to look at it. Live brine shrimp was another disaster as he is so slow that he only would catch maybe one or two before the other fish gobbled them all up or they got sucked up by the filter. I knew there must be something that he would eat...the frozen krill would float to the top of the tank and he didn't even know it was food. Well, I read that they like to eat a lot of sponges and algae grazing on the rocks in the wild. I finally got him to eat by taking pieces of seaweed sheets and pieces of frozen angel preparation made from sponges and krill (looks pink like sponges in the wild?) and placed them on a small rock with a rubber band. The other little fish in the tank took to it right away and when he saw them he joined in. These foods last on my 5 inch rock for an hour or two which is long enough for this slow grazing fish to eat. <Excellent technique for feeding this great food source...Thanks for sharing the idea..> I also got a brine shrimp feeder from Brine Shrimp Direct to feed him with great success. It is a little mesh cage type thing that you put the live adult brine shrimp into. It keeps them in the little cage until the fish peck at them and suck them through the mesh....Keeps them together in an area away from the filters where a slow grazing fish like a Majestic can feed over an hour or longer. <Another good idea...> Maybe you can suggest some of these ideas in your next article or book that may help others keep these beautiful fish alive. <Thanks again for sharing these techniques with your fellow hobbyists! That's what this site is all about!> Sincerely, Lesley Sears in Houston <Take care, Lesley! Regards, Scott F.> Good Fish Identification Site >Hey Marina, >>Hey. >Don't know if you guys already do have a link, I did not check, any way it I was referred to it by a Marine Biologist in Hong Kong. >>Yes, it's a very good site. >My dark secret, About 3 weeks ago I bought a Majestic Angel and put it into my 50gal tank. It's a little lady about 2.5 inches and in perfect health. It's very difficult to get a healthy collected Majestics in Hong Kong. I managed to convince the guy who I buy my reef supplies/corals to get it for me (when I asked them first the response was you just have to keep buying them and hope that they survive...eeeks!!!). >>I'll say! Jeez.. >When he got this fish he called me and I just had to take it, so you understand why I took it. I paid $25 for the fish, steal huh?? >>Out here, definitely. >That's the going price here anyway. My twin daughters (5 years) just love her and call her Gabriellis (after the arch angel). I would not have got her if I did not plan to get a bigger tank later on. As you know my dream tank comes in Dec/Jan. Still, I was feeling quite guilty, and if there were any delays to my tank, I wanted to release the fish. >>Not such a good idea, my friend. >So I wrote to this Marine Biologist and enquired if there were any angels in Hong Kong waters, apparently it turns out there are 4 species which for your info are: Centropyge tibicen Chaetodontoplus septentrionalis Pomacanthus annularis Pomacanthus semicirculatus but there are no Pomacanthus Navarchus and he has requested me not to release it, so I guess I have not choice but get my tank on schedule. >>Spot on. >I am a fishing nut, I have seen damsels in Hong Kong waters and some fish that from the top look like Banggai Cardinals...not sure they spook immediately when you approach to close. Just a question on this angel, can I feed her cabbage and Broccoli? >>I see no harm, though I don't know what nutrition she'll really get from the cabbage. Nori would be excellent for her, though. >I tried it yesterday and she ate it, any side effects? >>Broccoli smells and cabbage gives me gas. I'm feeling fine, though, thank you. >She takes spinach and lettuce readily. She is a real lady, does not molest the corals in my tank. >>Do watch the LPS corals. >Very well behaved. When my large tank arrives (400 gal) I will introduce a smaller Asfur, any problems? These are my absolute two favorite fish. >>We like to avoid mixing angels of the same genus unless there's a great deal of room. Differing genus' may be worth a try, though I would watch all angels carefully. >Kind Regards, Jorell >>Do take care. Marina
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