FAQs on Tap/Source Water Use for Marine
Aquariums, Troubles/shooting
Related Articles: Treating Tap water for Marine Aquarium
Use, Water Purification Using
Reverse Osmosis,
Related FAQs: Treating
Tapwater 1, Treating Tapwater
2, Treating Tapwater 3, &
FAQs on New Water Treatment: Rationale/Science, Chemicals (Chlorine, Chloramines,
Trihalomethanes...), Filtrants, Techniques/Tools, Testing, Products by Manufacturer/Brand, DIY Treatment Chemicals/Tools,
& Reverse Osmosis
Filtration, Specific Gravity,
Water Purification Using R.O 1. RO/DI 2, RO/DI
3, Nitrates, Water Changes,
|
Tap/Source water is NOT a consistent
product... Seasonally or moment to moment. It IS treated
occasionally with MUCH higher concentrations of sanitizer,
flocculant, et al.
|
Dealing with exceptionally hardy strain of crypt?
Impt. notes re Quinines; old Amquel toxicity
11/12/15
Hi Crew,
I've been happily reading your site for several years now and am grateful for
all of the information. Ever since ich entered my 170g reef almost two years ago
before I learned to properly QT, I've been fighting it with just about every
method in the book, including many "reef-safe" snake oils, but also QT with
hypo, Chloroquine, and quinine...sometimes keeping the fish in
the DT while removing LR and corals, others removing fish to QT and letting the
DT go fallow.
<With you so far>
I've blamed failures on everything from not keeping medication levels high
enough, to keeping the QT and DT to close together so that aerosolized crypt
could move between the two systems.
<Interesting speculation. More likely resident/residual infestation. Most
systems have this/them>
I've also demonstrated through studies in a lab with good equipment that
Chloroquine degrades super fast leaving behind an inactive molecule in my tank
(I was monitoring by HPLC , and I believe, based on changes in CPQ
behavior over a year, that a microbe capable of detoxifying Chloroquine either
entered or evolved in my system...more about that another time, but high levels
of the degradation do appear to be toxic to Zebrasoma tangs).
<I REALLY encourage you to publish your data, explanations>
I now know that quinine is perfectly stable in my system and that the
concentration remains constant after dosing regardless of skimmer or keeping
lights on. It clearly wipes out any visible ich on my fish within 24 hours and
prevents the return until removed. Unfortunately, as you already know, it dos
nothing for the inactive cyst stage, and I find that certain tangs (particularly
Zebrasoma) begin to show signs of drug toxicity after about a week
(labored breathing, failure to eat, general listlessness) but they recover fully
withi8n a day of being moved to a system without quinine.
<I have suspected such as well>
SO....I still have ich. I just completed a 13 week fallow (no new coral or other
additions), my QT and DT are far apart, precautions were taken to heat-sterilize
anything that went from one tank to another, etc. I moved a Kole tang with no
visible signs of ich from QT to the DT.
<Note the qualifier, "no visible signs">
He had been at high quinine concentration for the previous five days and was
allowed an hour in the quinine containing water during the transfer process,
just in case there were any random cysts that had just hatched so that the new
hatchlings would have time to die from high drug exposure.
About a week later, the first small blotch appeared, looking nothing like ich.
<You should sample, check under a microscope>
Couple more blotches (as opposed to raised sugar grains) appeared here and there
until this morning when I clearly saw some raised sugary grains. So, it's back
to QT for him, and I'll have quinine in the tank to make sure that anything on
him dies before it can re-encyst and live to infect another fish.
Finally to my question: Would you let this DT go fallow for 6 months?
<As long as possible, practical... more likely, with no desired life present,
I'd bleach all and restart it>
A year? Or sacrifice your corals, cook your live rock, empty the DT, and go over
every component with a hair dryer to make sure not so much as a single drop of
water remains anywhere in the general vicinity?
<No; I would not go this far. Just as likely to (re) import Crypt w/ new fishes>
I have also considered periodically placing an ich-resistant fish in an
isolation box within the tank in case this strain requires fish hormones to
break dormancy. I realize all of this might seem extreme, but I seem to have a
real survivor here and the theory of crypt weakening after a year of successive
generations seems to either be wrong, or to not apply to this strain.
The good news is that my fish seem to be real survivors....though I did lose
many to a bad batch of Amquel plus, which I will write about separately.
<To/for browsers; DO give your polyvinylpyrrolidone solutions (commercial
dechloraminators often contain) a "good whiff" and if they smell, toss rather
than use them>
I would greatly appreciate any advice here.
Thank you
<I'd have you read here:
http://wetwebmedia.com/reefparfaq2.htm
and a few of the linked files above.... for solace, input. I'd strive to "keep
balance" in your/fishes favor here; through optimized care: environment and
nutrition; use of cleaners.... Bob Fenner>
Bad batch of Amquel Plus
11/12/15
Hi again crew.
I wanted to separate this subject from my previous tome on a persistent strain
of ich.
<Ah, I thank you>
I have found a little about this on your site, but wanted to add. It took me 3
die-offs and a discussion at my LFS to get here.
I have used the product many times in the past with great success,
<I've used hundreds of gallons commercially; and know where you're going here>
but I bought a new bottle from Amazon in July when we were having a heat wave. I
had just restarted a quarantine tank and was ready to begin catching fish after
another ich outbreak and put some of the product in. I trapped a pbt that was
heavily infected, added him, and he died overnight. I assumed he was too badly
damaged by crypt or that something was wrong with my parameters or that it was
new tank syndrome even though I had added a well seeded sponge. I let the QT (75
gallons) settle for a few days, added carbon, and tried another fish, but
assumed I didn't need the AmQuel for just one fish. That fish lived, and I added
more, one at a time. They all lived. After a week, I was heading out on vacation
and thought I'd leave
the fish with a big water change and clean filters....and of course, some Amquel
plus prophylactically in case the bacteria count was too far reduced to fully
keep up with the bio burden for the first couple days. The water went cloudy
overnight and many fish died immediately or over the next week while my house
sitter watched helplessly. Again, I blamed it on my water change and the weekend
state of my fish.
As the end of my fallow period approached, I decided to do a tank transfer just
in case there were any cysts capable of surviving. I set up a 20 gallon with new
water and seeded sponge filter and checked my temperature, pH, etc. Then I added
Amquel plus from that same bottle, now 2 months older. I placed a fish in the
tank and it began twitching and was dead
within 10 minutes. I had removed it to a bucket of water taken from my DT within
5 minutes, but it could not recover. The water turned cloudy and the pH dropped
to 6.5.
<Yikes!>
After my fallow ended and I transferred my few remaining fish back to the DT, I
decided to buy a couple new fish and begin the QT process over again. They went
into the same QT my other fish had been in with good stable conditions, and they
were swimming happily. At 10 PM, I decided to add a single capful of Amquel plus
from this same bottle, still thinking
the other deaths were something I had done. Six hours later, I awoke to find the
fish dead and the pH very low but no ammonia.
I tasted the material and found it to be acidic and strong, then went to my LFS
and explained what had happened, and asked if they had open AmQuel I could
taste. The two were not the same.
<Note to browsers, please DO NOT taste test aquarium products>
When discussing my decision to purchase off Amazon in July, the owner noted that
he only orders Amquel for the store between October and May, and stocks up in
May to avoid shipping in summer. He stated that exposure to high temperature
will sometimes cause it to go bad, and that was likely my problem.
<Yes; though simple time going by can result in such degradation>
I bought a new bottle to run some tests, like change in pH of live salt water,
but the old and new were identical. I cut off a couple pieces of filter floss
from my canister filter and added them. It did seem like the old bottle made the
water hazier in the presence of the dirty filter, but I could just be seeing
things. since I cannot distinguish between the two bottles based on appearance,
smell, or effect on simple parameters, I am terrified to add this to my tank.
I have since added a couple fish to this QT, after a water change and carbon.
There have been no deaths.
Since I can't similar stories anywhere else on the internet,
<There are a few accounts. Am going to try "Amquel Toxicity" in the search tool:
There are ref.s, but they're not coming up counter-shaded for some reason, and
am wont to look w/in the FAQs files for the specific Q/As.... I assure you
though that I am well-aware w/in you speak; chatted w/ Dr. Bob Rofen (RIP) who
passed earlier this year; owner of Kordon/Novalek Re (the maker of this product
and NovAqua, and...) and John/ny Farrell Kuhns, the actual chemical patent
holder for these lines..... the aging, break-down and toxicity of this product
IS a known quality>
I was wondering if you had similar experience or had heard this from somebody
else in the past. I am particularly interested in whether the "heat effect" is
real.
<Sped up rates of reaction; yes. You can see/read my bio. on WWM, elsewhere. I
taught H.S. level chemistry and physics....>
Thank you in advance for whatever information you can provide....I'd like this
info to help others, but I understand if you need to keep it private in order to
avoid lawsuits from the manufacturer.
<I am very long since past any such consideration. Am really only interested in
establishing fact/s, disseminating them in a useful, timely manner to others
that are interested. Again, I thank you for your sharing, concern. Bob Fenner>
well water /Carole 10/12/15
<Hi there!>
I have a 43.5 g. saltwater tank with 26.5 refugium. The display tank has 4x39W
36” fluorescent tubes on for 6 hr/day, and a MagDrive 5 and MagDrive 7 on 24/7
with an Aqua C EV-120, housing @ 50 lb live rock, 2 false *percula* clownfish, 1
yellowtail damsel, 1 Coral Beauty angelfish, all quite healthy and long-lived.
<Is this a fish only tank or do you have some coral as well? What kind of macro
algae are you growing in your refugium and, for my final question, when you say
"healthy and long-lived", how long are you talking?>
My problem is continuing cyanobacteria. I am on untreated potable well water and
it is not practical to consider RO water <any particular reason why not? A good
RO/DI unit can be purchased for less than $200 these days and they do a very
good job of removing dissolved minerals/metals/etc... from the water and don't
require hard plumbing and are considered a necessary part of equipment by many
people. Also, are you adding a buffer to your well water/check the pH on your
water? How frequently do you do water changes?>.
I have tried many ways over the years of at least reducing it, including vodka
treatment
<Your well water is most likely your culprit and vodka dosing isn't going to do
anything to help. Your well water may have something that the cyanobacteria
love, not necessarily nitrates/phosphates. Water parameters from your tank would
be a huge help here - (pH, ammonia, nitrites, nitrates, phos, calc, alk, etc..)
as well as pH from your well water> .
Within a day it starts showing again, so I have just been putting up with it. My
freshwater tank shows some green algae, but no Cyano, and to much less degree
<whatever is in your well water is feeding the Cyano in the saltwater tank much
more readily than in the freshwater>. My question is: would treating the prep
water for water changes with bleach help? <absolutely do not treat with bleach>
If so, how much for how long and how much dechlorination is suitable?
<Your problems with the water will not be helped with bleach. Bleach will kill
bacteria, fungi, viruses, etc.. but not do a thing about what is dissolved in
your water that is causing this issue. You would be better off with a good RO/DI
system and, barring that, a UV sterilizer which will help reduce the Cyano as
well>
Thanks for your help -
<No problem! ~ Carole>
Gai Burnett
well water /RMF 10/12/15
I have a 43.5 g. saltwater tank with 26.5 refugium. The display tank has 4x39W
36” fluorescent tubes on for 6 hr/day, and a MagDrive 5 and MagDrive 7 on 24/7
with an Aqua C EV-120, housing @ 50 lb live rock, 2 false percale clownfish, 1
yellowtail damsel, 1 Coral Beauty angelfish, all quite healthy and long-lived.
My problem is continuing cyanobacteria. I am on untreated potable well water and
it is not practical to consider RO water.
<Mmm; impractical? Such units are VERY inexpensive to procure and run.... AND if
your potable has issues... you should move forward for your drinking and cooking
needs in addition>
I have tried many ways over the years of at least reducing it, including vodka
treatment. Within a day it starts showing again, so I have just been putting up
with it. My freshwater tank shows some green algae, but no Cyano, and to much
less degree.
My question is: would treating the prep water for water changes with bleach
help?
<Mmm; not likely... can only tell by analysis of the water, or actual
use/bio-assay of the chlorine bleach treated water. This is NOT the route I
would go>
If so, how much for how long and how much dechlorination is suitable?
<A day, then removal w/ Thiosulfite.... again.... there are other approaches to
BGA control. READ here:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/bluegralgae.htm
AND the linked files above, AND
on WWM re RO, AND get a unit.... WITH an auxiliary pump if your pressure is low>
Thanks for your help -
Gai Burnett
<Welcome. Bob Fenner>
Need help with Possible
Cupramine Interaction 3/27/10
Hello,
I have been looking for a possible solution to a situation I recently
had that resulted in the death of multiple fish while in quarantine. I
have looked on numerous places on the net but have not been able to
find anything that matches what happened.
I purchased 3 red striped Cardinalfish and 2 neon gobies. My plan was
to place them into a QT tank first as I had issues with marine Ick in
the past and don't want to rip down my main display tank again.
Learned my lesson. All new purchases go into quarantine first.
<Okay... you might peruse WWM re this issue. I am not a strict
adherent to this mantra... there are several fish families/groups that
are better NOT quarantined... the Gobiosoma/Elacatinus among
them>
I mixed new salt water using tap water (I know I should use RO but
don't have a RO unit yet) filled the QT
<I'd use water from a clean, established system for quarantine,
unless I could/was very sure of its quality>
and then added Stress Zyme to remove any chlorine that may be in the
tap water. I then waited a couple of days before adding the fish. I
also tested the water parameters prior to adding the fish and the
ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate where all 0, PH was at 8.4, salinity was
1.023 and temperature was 77F. So everything looked good.
I then purchased and slowly acclimated the fish into my quarantine tank
(bare tank) and then watched them for two days so that they had a
chance to adjust and I could make sure they were eating OK. Everything
was look good. Fish were eating, swimming and breathing normally.
Basically looking good. My plan then was to do a treatment with
Cupramine
<And I would not expose Gobies, and again that Middle English
derived word, several fish families/groups to copper products. Read
here:
http://wetwebmedia.com/cryptblensgobs.htm
and the linked files above>
after they settled so I could ensure that I would not have an issue
once put into my display tank.
<You won't, because they'll likely be dead>
I was doing this as I have had issues with fish acquired from our only
LFS store in the past and don't want a repeat. I should also note
that I have used Cupramine in the past without issue.
Since I am aware that fish like gobies can be sensitive to a copper
treatment I started with 1/2 of the recommended amount
<Copper strength is a threshold event experience... i.e., not having
a physiological dose (concentration) does no good... Is actually
harmful. Do you understand this?>
(Cupramine: 1/2ml per 10.5 gal instead of 1ml per 10.5 gal recommended)
for the first day.
The quarantine tank is 30 gallons so I added 1.5ml. I was going to add
the other half dose after 48hrs and then again to achieve a final
concentration of 0.3-0.4 mg/l, slightly under the recommended 0.5
mg/l.
I had tested the water after a couple of hours after adding the initial
copper dose and it was at ~0.1 mg/l
<This with a chelated copper test kit?>
which is where it should have been at. I am using the Salifert copper
test kit. Within 24 hours all 3 of the red stripped Cardinalfish were
dead and the gobies (not dead yet) looked like they had copper
poisoning. I had not yet added the second dose. One was sitting
lifeless at the bottom and the other looked like it was convulsing.
After I discovered that the fish died, I immediately tested for
ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and PH. Ammonia: 0, nitrite: 0, nitrate: 0,
PH 8.4, temp 77F. I also retested the copper and it was still at 0.1
mg/l.
<Mmm, I'd be reading re testing for Cu++... and checking your
test kit against one of known accuracy, with test batch water and the
Cupramine added>
Both gobies have also died so obviously something went really wrong in
the QT. Right now I am at a loss as to what may have gone wrong.
<... Likely copper poisoning>
So I would like to know if the stress-zyme caused the Cupramine to go
from Cu+2 to Cu+ and become lethal.
<Mmm, don't think so... am very familiar with this API product,
its constituents... if anything, if there was some active StressZyme
left in solution, it would serve to precipitate the Cu>
I did find that you can't use Amquel as this will happen
<Really? What specific component does what with the free copper or
its alkano-amine complex?>
so is it possible that using stress-zyme prior to adding the Cupramine
caused this to happen or is it possible that there may have been
something in the tap water that caused this. Any insight would be
appreciated as I don't want a repeat.
Thanks Dan
<Again... please read where you were referred. I would NOT
quarantine these two families of fishes period... Dips/baths and
summary placement is advised. Bob Fenner>
Re: Need help with Possible
Cupramine Interaction 3/28/10
Bob,
Thanks for the insight. I was not aware that exposing gobies and
Cardinalfish to Cupramine was a bad thing.
<Is too toxic for these fishes to be safe, effective>
I am not exactly sure what you mean about " not having a
physiological dose does not good... Is actually harmful"
If you mean that to have it remain below the level that works then I
understand.
<In part this is so, the other element is that instead of
"achieving" anything positive, sub-clinical concentrations
poison the hosts. Think of successive approximation events instead... a
little kiss from your aunt may not count as a kiss to you, but pregnant
is pregnant... This latter is akin to sufficient ranges of copper
exposure... a threshold event>
My thought that building up more slowly would be a better approach but
apparently this is incorrect. I will not pursue this in the future.
In regards to your question about Amquel, there was a post on the
Seachem forums and also on multiple other boards about this.
<Would you please send along this/these links?>
But the one thing that I did not indicate in my first post (as I did
not consider it an issue at the time) and I believe may have actually
added to the problem is that this was a tank I just re-sealed. I used
GE Silicone II glass (100% pure silicone - clear). I did let it dry for
several weeks before using it so I dont think that was the issue but,
upon a closer read on the tube I noticed that it contains a mold
inhibitor.
<Mmm, the 100% product should not>
I should note that this is not obvious and was only something I
discovered after re-reading the tube several times and was clued into
after looking for a possible answer to my initial problem. I have
re-sealed numerous tanks over the years and always used GE clear
silicone without incident but it seems that all the new GE silicones
have this inhibitor which before they never had.
<This mold inhibitor IS toxic>
So I think what happened was when I removed the carbon and added the
Cupramine, the inhibitor combined with the Cupramine caused the water
to turn poisonous.
<Is toxic on its own... I don't know of any synergistic
effect/s>
I do not have a way to know for sure so I can only assume. I think the
reason that everything was OK for the first few days was due to having
carbon in the filter. It was probably absorbing anything that was being
leached.
Again thanks for the information. I am always trying to learn more to
do the right thing.
Dan
<Thank you, BobF>
Re: Need help with Possible
Cupramine Interaction - 03/28/10
Bob,
<Dan>
Thanks for the explanation on the sue of Cupramine. Much
Appreciated.
<Welcome>
As for the use of GE II clear, it is listed as 100% silicone but if you
look at the fine print on the back of the tube, then you will see where
it says "...that also provides mold free product protection".
This is on the Silicone II Clear Premium Waterproof Silicone for
Window/Door/Attic/Basement and listed as 100% Silicone.
<Oooh, I sense a big lawsuit here... How can anything be 100%...
plus something else?>
Here are the links you requested.
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1373316
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1373114
http://www.seachem.com/support/FAQs/Cupramine.html#faq2
http://www.seachem.com/support/forums/showthread.php?t=3155&highlight=amquel
Here is the response from Seachem on their forum:
Re: after Cupramine dosing, can Amquel be added
----------------------------------------
Once you have finished treating with Cupramine and the copper has been
removed from your tank, it is safe to add a water conditioner, such as
AmQuel, to combat ammonia. We do not recommend using both products at
the same
time, as water conditioners are reducing agents that could reduce the
copper to a toxic form.
If you need to perform a water change to lower ammonia levels during
the course of treatment, just be sure to re-dose the Cupramine to bring
it back up to a therapeutic level.
Dan
<Mmm, yes... conversion of Cu++ to Cu+...
Back to my standard suggestion to not use such "Dechlorinator et
al. products"... and just pre-mix and store new synthetic seawater
if this is the purpose, or skip such conditioners altogether, as both
chlorine and "amines" are complexed almost immediately on
contact with seawater. Bob Fenner>
SW Water Quality Issues:
Silicates\TDS RO/DI Softeners, etc. 5/4/2009
<Hello again Penny,>
I recently bought a silicate test (Seachem) and a TDS Meter and what an
eye opener these two purchases were.
<Hehehe, they usually are.>
Our house runs off of a 400ft well. I have a home RO unit (no DI) and
have recently changed all filters and membranes so these numbers are as
good as it gets so far:
Tap water: 1090 TDS!
RO water: 109 TDS! (so 90% removal rate)
<Less than optimal, but not surprising. What is the water
pressure\temperature? out of the tap?>
Silicates in tank are about 4-5
<A bit high.>
I have some problems with Cyano blooms, could this be because of the
4-5 reading?
<No>
I know is s/b 0 but is 4-5 a horrible number? It's not off the
chart but higher than I like.
<Not horrible, but lower is better>
I run two Phosban reactors (TLF's), one has carbon and the other
has Rowaphos (recently switched
to this from another brand-last water change). I am hoping the Rowaphos
helps brings down the silicate readings, it says it aids in silicate
removal, is this true?
<Yes it does.>
All my water changes have been done with water from a drive thru
dispensing machine which I have checked and it has 3 TDS's which is
stellar compared to my crappy water, and 0 for silicates. But I was
using my 109 RO water for the ATO on my 90g tank. I assume this is
where my silicates have come from.
<Likely so.>
I am now using all store bought water for everything. I am hoping this
will help turn around my Cyano blooms???
<It certainly cannot hurt, but if you remember the articles I
referred to you earlier, Cyano is normally caused by excess organic
nutrients and\or a lack of competition for what nutrients are
there.>
Again, I am not sure how bad 4-5 is as a silicate reading. I am having
a water treatment guy (rep from the drive thru water source) come to my
house and assess my situation and hopefully get me on track to being
able to use my own water source. I was told by my LFS that adding two
DI add on units would greatly help my situation, do you think this is
true??
<You will see positive results with a DI unit. I'm not sure if
two are necessary.>
I was also told by the rep guy that my water softener (which is not
working properly anyways) is really not big enough to handle my TDS/
Hardness count, I should have a bigger model. Do you think this is BS??
It makes a bit of sense to me that the softener does dissolve some of
the hardness and solids in the water.
<By default, you should not use water from a water softener for an
aquarium. Straight RO\DI from the tap is better For that matter, what
does your tap water test out for straight from the tap.>
I am having to do weekly/bi weekly water changes to keep the Cyano in
check on the sandbed which is costing me a fortune in store bought
water now that I am using it for everything (ATO is about 2-3g a
day!).
<Hmm, I wonder if it would be better to get a dedicated RO\DI system
for your tank. It will probably be cheaper in the long run.>
So do you think I am on the right track with the above mentioned
things?
<I would not use a softener for your aquarium water, otherwise,
yes.>
Will the Rowaphos help with silicates?
<Yes, it will>
Will water changes bring them down enough or should I buy a silicate
remover product? If so which one?
<Rowaphos is fine.>
And could the 4-5 silicates be causing my blooms?
<No>
My tank is a 90 gallon, about 3-4 months old, 100lbs+ LR, 1.5" SB,
3 Vortech MP40's for movement, 2x250w MH 14,500K (Giesemann),
2xActinic Plus T5's (Giesemann), Eheim 1262 for return pump, Bubble
king 180 skimmer, Nitrite-0, Nitrate-0, Phosphate-0, Ammonia-0.
Is there a clean up crew that deals with cleaning the sandbed
better?
I don't have dead spots really but am wondering if something other
than crabs (don't eat it) will eat the Cyano? Or keep the sandbed
mixed up.
<There are several creatures that will keep your sandbed mixed up.
Read here http://www.wetwebmedia.com/marsiftfaqs.htm >
My fish are: Hippo tang, yellow tang, Foxface, 2 blk clowns, 1 Sixline,
1 lawnmower blenny. Stocking OK?
<Yep.>
Everyone gets along great.
My lighting timers are Actinics from 9:30am-8:30pm, MH's are from
11:15am-7pm. Is this too long of a span?
<You can reduce it a bit to help with the Cyano problem.>
Sorry for the long winded email.
<No worries.>
One last question.... Do you guys have an address where cases of beer
can be delivered for providing such a great service???
<Heheheh.>
Thanks for all your help, you guys are the life savers of the SW
community!!
<My pleasure>
<Mike>
Re: SW Water Quality Issues:
Silicates\TDS RO/DI Softeners, etc. 5/5/2009
I don't use my softener water for my tank directly. The well water
runs through the softener first before heading to the RO unit. I also
have purchased a booster pump which I forgot to mention before for
my
RO unit.
<Ahh, OK.>
I tested my "straight from well" water and it's 1130
TDS.
Water through our ill functioning softener is 1100. Water through our
RO is 93. These are numbers as of 5 minutes ago. You were asking about
pressure, our house pressure tank is set at 50/20. But for the RO
unit
I do have a booster pump. Do you have any good brand suggestions for an
add on DI unit(s)?
<I buy my RO\DI equipment from these guys -
http://www.thefilterguys.biz/index.htm >
I have been dosing Kent's Marine Buffer for PH/Alk levels to keep
my Alk at about 9. Could this be a Cyano causer?
<Possible.>
I don't dose every day, maybe once a week but ever since I started
dosing it my Cyano started.
Nothing before then.
<Keep up the water changes and stop adding the buffer. I've
found that not adding any supplements when fighting Cyano does seem to
help.> >
I have been trying to find someone who has Chaeto in Canada as no doubt
I can't ship it across the line. How big of a chunk do you need
growing to be beneficial?
<A small chunk is fine, it will grow very quickly in the right
conditions.>
I am just stumped as to my Cyano cause.
<I know the feeling - been fighting it myself - I'm finally
winning. It does take time. I've been fighting it for a
month.>
I don't feel I am over feeding. I am not one of those people who do
no research before getting into this hobby. I feel I have really great
husbandry skills and am willing to do whatever it takes to solve this.
I keep hoping it will go away with all my water changes and lack of
feeding.
Thank you again for such a fast response. I am still needing an address
to ship the beer to.
<Heheheh I'll have to have Bob chime in here. The shipping costs
to Florida would be astronomical.>
<<Maybe we can just swing by your place to tip a few?
RMF>>
Thanks again.
<My pleasure>
Penny
<Mike>
AquaC EV-120 vs. Tap Water
Conditioner - Round 1 1/23/09 Hi All, <Thomas.> I am
just looking for a quick suggestion from you, if you would be so kind.
<Sure.> My setup is a 135 gal mixed reef, mainly softies, some
fish, and a 40 gal sump/refugium. I have a brand new EV-120 skimmer,
and I've always used Tetra Aqua AquaSafe Tap Water conditioner with
BioExtract to condition my 5 gal of make up water I add every 3 days or
so. Apparently, this water conditioner causes the EV series skimmers to
foam like crazy. I would really appreciate it if you could suggest for
me: 1. The best method for removing the conditioner that currently
remains in the tank. <Carbon or just time.> 2. A quality product
for conditioning my make up water that won't cause the skimmer to
foam like crazy. <I personally always used Kordon AmQuel in my pre
RO days. See: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/fwsubwebindex/treath2o.htm for
even cheaper/better options.> Thank you very much for your expertise
and time. Thomas Bolton <Welcome, Scott V.>
Re: AquaC EV-120 vs. Tap Water
Conditioner- Round 2 2/2/09 Thank you!
<Happy to help.> I just wanted to follow up to let you know that
I have switched to AmQuel+ and have been able to slowly increase the
output of the pump going to the skimmer as the days pass and the amount
of BioExtract in the water disappears. <Great! Many of these bio
mumbo jumbo concoctions are great for making a skimmer go nuts!> The
EV-120 skimmer is pretty awesome, and I would recommend it to anyone.
:) <Definitely.> Thanks for your help! Thomas Bolton <Welcome,
Scott V.>
Water conditioners in a reef tank 2/21/08 I have a
question regarding water conditioners. I add Prime to my tap water when
I perform water changes/top offs and I was recently told that water
conditioners such as this will kill the pods in my tank. Is this true?
<That statement is a bit extreme, but generally speaking, tap water
is bad for marine inverts.> Would water conditioners have a negative
impact on coral? <If not the Prime, then the other things in the tap
water, yes.> So far I haven't observed anything bad happening.
My usual top off method is to put a couple of drops in the bucket
I'm using then filling it with water and adding it either directly
to the tank or to the sump/refugium. Of course when I do water changes
I let the water sit for a few days to settle. Is it significantly
better to use RO/DI water and avoid the water conditioners? <The
benefits of using RO/DI water go far beyond just avoiding water
conditioners. Unless you live in rural Montana (or some other such odd
place where the tap water is nearly pure), your tap water is loaded
with stuff you don't want in your reef aquarium. Please see here:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/watrqualmar.htm And do a search on WWM for
RO/DI and tap water filtration.> Thanks, you guys are always a big
help. <De nada, Sara M.>
Not so much of a question, but more of a
warning. Tapwater use... 5/7/07 Hello Crew,
<Mike> Just writing this in the hopes that you pass it
on. Previously, I subscribed to the theory that if tap water
is safe for humans to drink, it is safe for the fish once properly
treated. <Mmm, you're learning...> Yesterday, I did my normal
15% water change on my 300G FOWLR. Prior to the water
change, my readings were Ammonia 0, Nitrite 0, and Nitrate <5ppm
(API test kit). About one hour after adding the new water, the tanks
looked a bit cloudy, and the twelve fish in the tank (species not
relevant to this letter), were acting
"odd". Difficult to describe odd, but you
understand what I mean when your fish are just not acting like they
normally do. I tested the water again: Ammonia 0, Nitrite
0.5ppm, Nitrate <5ppm. To make a long story short, after checking
all of my equipment and not finding any problems, I tested my tap
water; the nitrite level was somewhere between 0.5 and 1.0 ppm straight
out of the faucet. <Yikes> I added a bottle of "Cycle"
to the tank to help the system along. <Mmm, not a consistent/useful
product unfortunately> the nitrite level was down to
0.25 ppm within 90 minutes and back down to 0 ppm by the next morning.
<Likely your nitrifiers effect> So, my RO\DI unit should be
arriving this week, and my water utility will be getting an angry call
from me in the morning. <Good luck t/here> So, just a friendly
reminder to the WWM readers, if you use tap water, make sure you spot
check it from time to time! <Good!> Thanks again for this
wonderful resource, Mike <Thank you for sharing Mike... You have
saved many organisms, and many aquarist head- and heart-aches. Bob
Fenner> Chloramine Deaths. Hi There, <cheers!>
Recently, I've had deaths in my tanks directly after partial water
changes that must have been chloramine-related. <Not likely...
more commonly a discrepancy in temperature or pH. Do you really have so
much Chloramine that you can smell it from feet away? Most
dechlorinators easily neutralize this treatment> I unfortunately
used a "one-step" product for my water changes that I will
never use again. <do reconsider that most every Dechlor product is
virtually identical in efficacy> A friend told me about your site.
I'm glad he did! I've did a good deal of reading of your site.
I'm intrigued about your "vat method," -- letting water
sit or be mixed for a week or more before being added. <chlorine
will dissipate in open air but chloramine never will... a chemical bond
that must be broken (with a de-Ammoniating product.. most
conditioners)> My question is, what will this method do, if
anything, to "toxic metals?" <absolutely nothing>
Should I be concerned about this? <hmmm... rare in potable tap
water. If concerned, get a prefilter stuffed with PolyFilter pads to
draw water through> Thanks! Walter B. Klockers Plano, TX <best
regards, Anthony Calfo>
Re: fish in dire need Hi folks, I just sent Bob an e-mail, I
think he must be traveling the world again this week. <Just out in
HI. Did you get my previous response?> I have a serious problem that
I cannot figure out. I live in the Twin Cities (Minnesota for those who
are geographically challenged) I have 5 large systems that do not share
water. I have friends that are all over the Twin Cities, Chicago and
Milwaukee. ALL of us are having the same issue, in the past week we
have all lost "rock solid" healthy fish in large numbers. I
have done autopsies on 7 large fish and a Hybrid Clownfish I have had
for 3 years. We all have some sort of Amyloodinium. My friend in
Chicago has a very very high end set up, He has not lost a fish in 2
years- he lost 7 overnight. I lost angels, tangs, butterflies, clowns,
Anthias, a Moorish Idol I had for 2 years, blue spot Jawfish, a red sea
wrasse. Different tanks with very different systems throughout my
house. We are desperately searching for answers. The symptoms are
extremely heavy breathing for 5-6 hours, slightly clouded eyes, and
within 24 hours the fish are dead. I started a Tetracycline dip for all
the remaining fish, I have very large tanks so this is no small
undertaking. I have kept fish for 20 + years and have never seen this
happen. ANY SUGGESTIONS?????? <Sounds like something... like
chloramine, alum... being "pulsed" (over-added) into the
potable supply to counter a deficit in the concentration of sanitizer
or in an attempt to whack a high TBC or even coliform bacteria count...
I would enquire of your water co. (their number is on your bill)
immediately and ALSO acquire a chloramine test kit pronto... and see
how much stock dechloraminator it takes to knock the titer out. In the
meanwhile, DO NOT change water in your systems if you can avoid it, and
store any water to be used for a good week before any change. Bob
Fenner>
Re: fish in dire need Hi Bob, Ananda here with a request for
clarification and more questions on this. >> We all have some
sort of Amyloodinium. My friend in Chicago has a very very >>
high end set up, He has not lost a fish in 2 years- he lost 7
overnight. Ack! Even in the far western 'burbs, my
source water is from Lake Michigan.... I wonder if this person was
using an RO/DI setup. > <Sounds like something... like
chloramine, alum... being "pulsed" (over-added) into the >
potable supply to counter a deficit in the concentration of sanitizer
or in an attempt to > whack a high TBC or even coliform bacteria
count... TBC = total bacteria count? <<Yes>> Is
this something that might survive a poorly-maintained grocery store
type of RO unit? <<No. Reverse osmosis units will exclude all
bacteria> They supposedly have UV sterilizers on them, but I doubt
their effectiveness: I think the water flows by them too fast. Would
one of those tap water purifiers help? A full-blown RO/DI system is not
in the budget right now.... > In the meanwhile, DO NOT change water
in your systems if you can avoid it, How long is this sort of problem
likely to last? <<A few days. Bob Thanks,
Ananda
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