FAQs on Tank Troubleshooting 14
Related Articles: Tank Troubleshooting Pt 1, Part 2, The Three
Sets of Factors That Determine Livestock Health/Disease,
A Livestock Treatment System,
Related FAQs: Troubleshooting 1, Troubleshooting 2, Troubleshooting 3, Troubleshooting 4, Troubleshooting 5, Troubleshooting 6,
Troubleshooting 7, Troubleshooting 8, Troubleshooting 9, Troubleshooting 10, Troubleshooting 11,
Troubleshooting 12,
Troubleshooting 13,
Troubleshooting 15,
Troubleshooting 16,
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Need a parasite
ID/treatment recommendation... ... toxic situation
11/19/13
Hello WetWeb Crew,
<Ami>
I seem to have come across an unknown parasite,
<?... the pix attached; show two of the more aquarium-difficult
Acanthurids... w/ a great deal of accrued body slime... exposed to what?>
and despite scouring the internet I've come up empty. I need some help in
determining what this is, and how to treat it. First of all, none of these
fish have entered my display tank - this pathogen has been confined to
quarantine. Also, I've now experienced it on three different fish
within three years. The first two fish (powder blue and brown
tangs) did not survive, despite months of attempted treatment and
troubleshooting with medications.
<Sans sampling and microscopic exam? Have you read the mat.s on WWM re
parasitic identification?>
I have attached photos of those two fish for your reference. I had hoped to
never see it again, but now here I am. I ordered a Red Sea Regal
angel, and he came out of the bag with 4 of these "growths." I did
not attach a picture of the regal because I'm having trouble getting a
quality shot, and there is no doubt that it is the exact same symptom. What
I've observed, is that these "spots" start out as a small speck on the fish,
bigger than Ich and wrong texture/shape
for Lympho. They then proceed to "grow" outwards from the body of
the fish and form a 2-5mm filament that hangs off.
<... almost assuredly reaction from something "in/of the water"...>
I've seen them triple in size within a day or two.
<... mucus, mucin... See WWM re body slimes of fishes (these four words in
the search tool; on every page)>
On the deceased fish, I've attempted to remove the growths via tweezers or
scraping in hopes of learning something about them, but there's no real
anatomy as far as I can tell. They don't seem to be worms. I've had mild
results treating with .5mg/l Cupramine, but the parasite manages to return
worse than ever after a week or less of symptoms disappearing, while still
in full dose copper. I have not observed the disappearing act that is
associated with Ich, once a growth appears it stays; though the delicate end
piece can break off. Any help at all or insight you can offer would be most
appreciated. A regal angel is just about the worst fish to try and
experiment with medications on. Thanks in advance
Ami
<Am almost certain this is simply body mucus... a reaction to... something/s
in your water... Sample it and see (under a 'scope). Some treatment, an
aspect or more of your system is poisoning these fishes... causing them to
become "very slimy"... that's what this trailing white material is, NOT
parasitic; not pathogenic period. Treatment... involves investigating,
eliminating the source of toxicity here... salt mix? source water? some
"treatment" misplaced here... Bob Fenner> |
Re: Need a parasite ID/treatment recommendation
11/19/13
Thank you very much for your reply Bob,
<Welcome Ami>
I had considered the possibility of excess mucous also, but there is
nothing (detectable)
<The operative word... I WOULD add a unit or two of both ChemiPure (or
eq.) and PolyFilter in your circulation, filter flow path... likely
whatever this is... will be sufficiently absorbed to make a difference.
Going forward I strongly suggest you look about for a source of metal
poisoning (a fitting, piece of décor...) and sources of aerosols... ask
your water supplier (number on your bill) for their analysis of your
source water>
in my water that could be acting as a toxin. Is there something specific
you would have me check for? The obvious parameters are all perfect in
my quarantine systems and display - Ammonia, nitrite, nitrate are all 0,
phosphates are undetectable,
<... How are NO3 and HPO4 rendered as zero? Chemical filtrants may be
the source of trouble here>
I run my salinity at 1.025, temperature is 78 degrees. These fishes all
exhibited symptoms prior to any medication being introduced, and within
a day of being moved; including the regal angel which came out of the
bag from LiveAquaria this way.
<Am doubly concerned then LA has very good livestock... they buy
exclusively from the best outfit in the US... and several friends in
turn supply them>
The two tangs came from the tanks of fellow reefers where they lived for
years, but had never been quarantined previously. I am well aware of the
difficulty level of the tangs, and I currently have powder blue, powder
blue hybrid, and achilles all living quite happy and healthy in my 520g
reef tank. I attribute my success to quarantine. These particular fish
that showed sloughing mucous seemed quite random. Also, what am
I looking for under a microscope?
<Structure; send along pix>
Verifying that it is indeed mucous, or the nature of said mucous?
<Amorphous, almost clear, w/ some slight thread-like inclusions>
I will need to pick one up as I don't have one on hand.
<See WWM re>
I have managed to take picture of the regal, the "mucous" blends in with
the pattern of the fish unfortunately, each area is about 3mm long.
<Can't make out much more than this>
I realize the picture looks pretty mild, but after experiencing what I
have in the past with this thing, I'm nervous to say the least. I am
also unsure how such excess mucous would manifest itself the same way in
such soft bodied tangs and the thoroughly scaled angelfish. For now I
will focus on getting her a healthy appetite. Thank you for your help!
Ami
<Welcome. Bob Fenner>
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Ich or Velvet? 11/10/13
I have a Kole tang that suddenly is covered in a velvety substance.
I’m assuming it’s marine velvet… but I also thought it could be marine
Ich.
Could you confirm which disease it is for me?
<.... doesn't look like either of these Protozoans to me...
Something "more sinister", like poor water quality issue, perhaps
stinging... What else is in this system? What additives, supplements et
al. are you pouring in? Bob Fenner>
And I believe this guy is probably to far gone.
Friday he seemed fine… today (Sunday) he looks terrible.
Thank you for your help.
Matt Kasperski
Unfortunately, this is the best pic I can get. It does appear more
velvety than sprinkled with ‘salt or sugar’.
I’ve probably just answered my question. But I thank you for your
time.
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Re: Ich or Velvet? 11/10/13
It’s a 6 month old system… (75 gallon).
Other fish are 2 ocellaris clowns, 3 Chromis, 1 melanurus wrasse.
Also 2 Birdsnest corals and a Montipora, cleaner shrimp… assorted snails.
<All these should be okay>
I moved from VA to TX back in June…
The system was set up immediately in June and was ‘seeded’ with a few pieces
of live rock from my old (4 year running) system.
I thought I had Ich in this new setup (even though all fish were quarantined
for 6 weeks in a smaller tank). I have been treating with ‘Kick Ich’
<... here's the problem. Ala pepper sauce. You've been scammed>
for two weeks… (I know, it probably doesn’t work but I was desperate).
Was performing 25% water changes twice a week before a new dose of Kick Ich
was added.
Aside from adding the Kick-Ich, I have added buffer (sodium carbonate)
occasionally to combat low Alk. Regular water changes are performed
every two weeks and I would have assumed water quality was ok.
All the fish look a little ‘off’ today but the Kole tang looked the worst.
All are in hospital tank now… and I was wondering what would be the best
course of treatment.
OH… and how long should I leave the DT fallow? 8 weeks?
<... posted on WWM... I'd look into quinine cpd.s>
I have attached a better pic of the Kole tang in the hospital tank.
<... poisoned by the scam product. Search, read re this on WWM as well.
BobF>
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Re: Fish Dying in Reef Tank
10/19/13
Thanks Bob for the quick reply. A few questions if you don't mind.
I was
performing 50 Gallon water changes weekly to rid the Nitrates would this
have help reduce the toxicity?
<Yes; but an expensive, short term solution only. I would read, consider
long-term means>
When you talk about biological poisoning do all the other species of
coral
in the tank die or just the corals next to the one releasing the toxins?
<Not necessarily any dying; but the fishes first>
When you mention aggression, do you mean the corals will grow and over
take
the neighboring coral or will it poison the whole tank?
<Please read where you've been referred. These sorts of physical,
chemical,
biochemical means of competition go on continuously... sometimes more
vigorously, with dire consequences>
This was quoted from one of the FAQ pages I've read on WWM "Regarding
chemical filtration, I use Purigen in an attempt to keep trace elements
in
the system. Do you know how this product compares to activated carbon in
regards to filtering allelopathic compounds?
<I do... neither are really
useful>" All I read about on WWM is to remove the toxicity in the
water
you
have to run activated carbon. Can you please clarify.
<The compounds involved are mainly terpenoids... a large class of cyclic
hydrocarbons... NOT removed by most of the common chemical filter media
used by hobbyists>
I'm going to perform a 100% water change and continue to run activated
carbon and poly filter (unless you advise a different approach), is this
what you recommend?
<At this point/juncture, yes>
How would I know when the toxins are removed and if
it's safe to add fish?
<Unfortunately mainly through "bioassay"; exposing fish, invertebrates
as
test subjects>
Could high Nitrate say 30-40ppm in a reef tank cause a toxic warfare?
<It might indicate something that could trigger such an event; though
NO3
by itself is generally not a big issue>
Would SPS and LPS in the same aquarium give off minimal toxins since
their
both hard corals?
<No... some "real winners" like Galaxiids, Euphylliids win out over most
all other Scleractinians... >
Thank you for your help and good sense of humor.
Joe
<Cheers, Bob Fenner>
Re: Fish Dying in Reef Tank
10/19/13
O forgot to add this. These worms were all over the sand bed after
the
incident. Do you know what they are and what causes it.
<Ah yes; coming out because they are either being poisoned as well; or
seeking dead fish as food. BobF>
Thanks,
Joe
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Sudden fish kill 10/7/13
Please Help,
<Carl>
I have a 125 gallon marine aquarium, been keeping for 11 years.
Woke up the other morning to find all but 2 fish dead. I have never had
a water parameter or temperature problem.
<Mmm; some sort of "wipe out syndrome"... there are a few
noted/speculated causes>
This happened to me once before about 6 years ago and I just can't
figure it out. LFS stores no help.
Deceased fish: Yellow Tang, Sumatra Regal Angel, Venustus Angel,
Snowflake Clown, 2 Pajama Cardinals, Lantern bass, Cleaner Wrasse, Six
line Wrasse and a cleaner shrimp.
Survived: 1 Snowflake Clown, Watchman Goby, Blueleg crabs, snails,
and corals
<Mmm, good that you list what died and didn't... this reads
like the more oxygen needing, more chemically sensitive fishes, shrimp
perished... the less dependent didn't... Could be a film on the top of
your tank water (very common) created a hypoxic condition... or some
sort of metabolite generated in the tank triggered a "cascade effect"...
generally w/ microbes producing toxic analogs...>
Sending pic of dead fish just in case it might help.
Thank You in Advance,
Carl
<We have a collection of such accounts that you should read; archived
here:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/envdistrbfixf.htm
the linked files above. Bob Fenner>
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Flame angel scratching; flukes f' 8/19/13
Hi crew! I have a Flame Angel in a QT that sometimes hangs out
under the HOB filter flow and was scratching against the tank
bottom. What could be causing this?
<A few possibilities; something to do w/ "water quality", just an itch,
possible parasitic infestation are the big three likelihoods>
Let me give some info first. We've been fighting flukes
for almost 2 months.
<Mmm, a lean toward the first poss. then>
I've used PraziPro utilizing various protocols which I can give you if
needed but the end result has been the same. I used hypo salinity as
outlined by B.K. Diggles in the abstract of marine monogea. I finally
did a formalin dip last Monday and put into a new tank. I've
watched him all week and no scratching. I began increasing the
salinity <actually spg> to introduce him back into the main tank.
<No more than a 0.001/thousandth per day>
On Sunday I saw him scratching on the tank bottom.
<So? May be nothing>
I prepared a FW dip in a black bucket and dipped him for 5 minutes. No
flukes that I could find utilizing a microscope.
<Likely aren't any>
As for hanging out under the filter he lays on his side like he's trying
to knock something off. Otherwise his color has come back.
<Ah good>
His face was faded for nearly 2 months. He eats like a pig.
<Also>
Am I just being paranoid or did the formalin dip (20 minutes) not do the
trick?
<Already stated>
Please let me know if you need other information. Thank you! Jen
<Cheers, and I'd do nothing further. Bob Fenner>
Re: Flame angel scratching
8/19/13
Hi Bob! Thanks for getting ack so quick! In response to water quality I
have an ammonia badge
<Mmm, I don't trust these...>
on the QT which has registered 0 but he was acting hyper on Friday so I
checked the ammonia and it was at .25. I did 2 50% water changes to get
down to 0. The ammonia started creeping back up Saturday so I did
another water change. Could this cause him to scratch?
<Oh yes>
I've read salinity can be increased as much as .02 in 24 hrs
<No! MUCH easier "going the other direction", but it should not be
raised... as just stated... more than a thousandth a day>
so that is what I was doing. Could that cause scratching?
<... yes>
I am, however, heeding your advice and increasing by .01.
<You're missing a zero... perhaps a short read on significant figures...
Wiki>
I've been dealing with flukes off and on since March and it's getting
old.
Thank again! Jen
<Another welcome. B>
<<RMF is now wondering "if" Jen IS spkg. of salinity, NOT spg...>>
Re: Flame angel scratching
8/20/13
Mmmm, yep I don't trust them either. Ok, good to know that both of these
can cause scratching. What about him lying sideways under the HOB water
flow? No need for reading on significant figures...just was in a
hurry and not paying attention:)
Thank you for answering all these questions! Jen
<Nothing odd re the hiding... due to handling et al... The fish will
soon become more outgoing. B>
Re: Flame angel scratching
8/20/13
Oh, he's outgoing!!:) I can't walk by the room without him flying
out from behind his PVC to beg for food. He's been in a QT since June.
He contracted Brooklynella from an unquarantined sea urchin. We
beat Brook via a series of formalin dips. It's a long story how he got
flukes.
I will begin raising the salinity per your directions. Thank you kind
sir:)
Jen
<Most welcome Jen. BobF>
Disturbing Fish Fatalities Please Help!
8/15/13
Hi Crew,
<Frank>
Longtime reader, thank you all for your service. I have a
disturbing situation with my 6 month old acrylic tank 150. Here is
some data on the tank as a whole
Tank Size 24x60x24 -center overflow custom made Suncoast aquariums 2 Led
Kessil - A350 Lights (aka Blue Tunas) very nice!!!!
Reeflo Dart Pump inline
150 of Gulf/Keywest Rock (15 years old broke down my 90 reef) Thin Layer
of Bahamas Oolite sand just enough to cover bottom Phosban 150 reactor
converted to bio pellet reactor undersized but already had it why not
AQUAMAXX ECOMAXX EM300 IN-SUMP Protein Skimmer 40 Gallon Glass Sump
Drilled with two 1" drains
<Wish (both of us) that these were larger diameter>
into 7" filter socks changed every 3-7 days
<I'd clean/switch out every day or two... When visibly dirty, a
bunch of chemical/decomposition getting into your water>
____________________________________________________________________________
_____
Live Stock Currently Living and Thriving in Tank
Maroon Clown, Royal Gramma, Red Eye Dotty back, 5 blue damsels (1 male),
3 green Chromis, 1 pajama Banggai, 1 - coral beauty, 1 bar goby, 1
copper banded butterfly, 4 line wrasse.
1 Large like basketball size green serpent starfish 15 years
from my old all glass 90...,
<Ophiarachna? A fish eater as you're likely aware>
several snails/hermit crabs.
1 - war coral, 1 Favite red and green lps, 1 - green torch frogspawn,
red mushrooms, a large colony of Malaysian green button polyps on
three rock formations 300 plus polyps and some, orange, red and green
Zoanthids. all small starting to build the reef more fish and
invert in the 90
previously.
Livestock Lost...
Over 20 damsels/Chromis,
<Mmm... what did they look like? Any pix? Chromis "do die" often (in
droves)... Marks? Too likely Uronema; otherwise, considering the other
livestock you list; predation mostly comes to mind. Bob Fenner>
-
Best Regards,
Frank Sanna
Re: Disturbing Fish Fatalities Please Help! RMF error
8/15/13
***Sorry hit the enter button accidentally***
***Here is the complete email****Livestock Lost...
<Truncated to fit w/ prev.>
Over 20 damsels/Chromis (some fought, that I do know separation did help
some), 1 powder brown tang, 1 butterfly fish , 1 flame angel, 1
yellow goby, 3-4 or four peach Anthias, etc. never in my life have
I had anywhere near this many fatalities please help.
<... something wrong here... system wise>
Water Quality- Nitrate 20 or less, Nitrates 0, Ph 8.1-8.4, alk 9,
phosphates less .5 or less,
<... I'd keep under 0.1 ppm. See WWM re>
calcium in the 400's I am using red sea salt 5% water changes every
Sunday....plus general maintenance skimmer socks
etc...
-------------------------------------------------------------------
My thoughts on the problem...
I use a magic eraser original to clean the tank it has nothing in it
<Uhh, not so. See here/ MSDS:
http://www.pg.com/productsafety/msds/fabric_and_homecare/hard_surface_cleaners/Mr_Clean_Magic_Eraser_Handy
_Grip_Bath.pdf
esp. Section X; has propylene glycol listed as chief ingredient. NOT
safe for in-aquarium use>
and does not scratch the tank like the magnets I have tried, however if
you push hard on coralline you will remove the finish if you are
aggressive with pressure, light touch is ok. acrylic safe pad with
a wand for the speckles. (don't believe any toxins or poisons are
to be blame here)
<I do>
I have heard some chatter that serpent stars may eat fish when they are
big at night?
<Mainly; yes>
The red eye dotty back is small, it was mistakenly sold to me as an
Anthias, I know they are aggressive but have not seen any hostility as
of yet and have been unsuccessful in trapping him so I gave up.
The filter socks are soaked in a shot glass of bleach to 5 gallons of
water then washed with hot water then left to dry 24 hours and reuse. I
was told this is ok to do?
<Yes>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Conclusion...
The fish that died were doing fine eating thriving, swimming
un-harassed, I am truly puzzled. The fish I was able to find were
virtually untouched with the exception to the damsels they were beat up.
My goal is and has always to have long living fish, but I cant with
clear conscience buy anymore until I determine what is wrong?
<Agreed>
I put the fish in schooling batches to avoid aggression which worked for
the most part, but slowly but surely the numbers diminished the fish
vanished and little to no evidence of what happen, so I am
stocking the reef seeming the corals are all doing excellent. I
just don't understand how this happening please help.
Thanks,
Frank...
<My guess is that "something" here triggered a "cascade event", killing
the fishes listed... And that considering what died and didn't that
there was some sort of chemical, perhaps biochemical series... of
poisoning. I'd NOT use the Mr. Clean product; is toxic to aquatic life.
Time going by, some use of general chemical filtrants should have
removed most all contaminants
by now. Bob Fenner>
Disturbing Fish Fatalities Please Help! RMF corr.
8/15/13
<Actually... your product:
http://www.pg.com/productsafety/msds/fabric_and_homecare/hard_surface_cleaners/Mr_Clean_Magic_Eraser_(_Original,_Duo,_Extra,_Auto).pdf
does list as "None" under chemical... My stance/guess re the losses is
the same however. "Something" (perhaps the scrubbing), triggered an
allelopathogenic cascade. Please read here re:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/toxicwipeoutf.htm
and the linked files above for a general understanding. BobF>
Disturbing Fish Fatalities Please Help! 8/15/13 James' go
Hi Crew,
<Hello Frank>
Longtime reader, thank you all for your service. I have a
disturbing situation with my 6 month old acrylic tank 150. Here is
some data on the tank as a whole
Tank Size 24x60x24 -center overflow custom made Suncoast aquariums 2 Led
Kessil - A350 Lights (aka Blue Tunas) very nice!!!!
Reeflo Dart Pump inline
150lbs of Gulf/Keywest Rock (15 years old broke down my 90 reef)
Thin Layer of Bahamas Oolite sand just enough to cover bottom Phosban
150 reactor converted to bio pellet reactor undersized but already had
it why not
AQUAMAXX ECOMAXX EM300 IN-SUMP Protein Skimmer
40 Gallon Glass Sump Drilled with two 1" drains into 7" filter socks
changed every 3-7 days
Live Stock Currently Living and Thriving in Tank
Maroon Clown, Royal Gramma, Red Eye Dotty back, 5 blue damsels (1 male),
3 green Chromis, 1 pajama Banggai, 1 - coral beauty, 1 bar goby, 1
copper banded butterfly, 4 line wrasse.
1 Large like basketball size green serpent starfish 15 years from my old
all glass 90..., several snails/hermit crabs.
1 - war coral, 1 Favite red and green lps, 1 - green torch frogspawn,
red mushrooms, a large colony of Malaysian green button polyps on
three rock formations 300 plus polyps and some, orange, red and green
Zoanthids. all small starting to build the reef more then in the
90 previously.
Livestock Lost...
Over 20 damsels/Chromis (some fought, that I do know separation did help
some), 1 powder brown tang, 1 butterfly fish , 1 flame angel, 1
yellow goby, 3-4 or four peach Anthias, etc. never in my life have
I had anywhere near this many fatalities please help.
Water Quality- Nitrate 20 or less, Nitrates 0, Ph 8.1-8.4, alk 9,
phosphates less .5 or less, calcium in the 400's I am using red sea salt
5% water changes every Sunday....plus general maintenance skimmer socks
etc...
My thoughts on the problem...
I use a magic eraser original to clean the tank it has nothing in it and
does not scratch the tank like the magnets I have tried, however if you
push hard on coralline you will remove the finish if you are aggressive
with pressure, light touch is ok. acrylic safe pad with a wand for
the speckles. (don't believe any toxins or poisons are to be blame
here)
I have heard some chatter that serpent stars may eat fish when they are
big at night?
The red eye dotty back is small, it was mistakenly sold to me as an
Anthias, I know they are aggressive but have not seen any hostility as
of yet and have been unsuccessful in trapping him so I gave up.
The filter socks are soaked in a shot glass of bleach to 5 gallons of
water then washed with hot water then left to dry 24 hours and reuse. I
was told this is ok to do?
<Can you smell any trace of bleach after the rinse in hot water?>
Conclusion...
The fish that died were doing fine eating thriving, swimming
un-harassed, I am truly puzzled. The fish I was able to find were
virtually untouched with the exception to the damsels they were beat up.
My goal is and has always to have long living fish, but I cant with
clear conscience buy anymore until I determine what is wrong? I put the
fish in schooling batches to avoid aggression which worked for the most
part, but slowly but surely the numbers diminished the fish vanished and
little to no evidence of what happen, so I am stocking the reef
seeming the corals are all doing excellent. I just don't
understand how this happening please help.
<Frank, that basketball starfish may just be the culprit. "One species
in common use warrants a statutory warning. This is the Green
Brittle Star of the genus Ophiarachna. This animal is a predatory
fish eater, that does indeed do a spiffy janitorial job when small...
but grows quickly, and under darkness of night can/does learn to eat
aquarium fishes. This species
has been documented to arch up in "sleeping caves" of captive fishes and
drop down on unsuspecting meals. If you use this species, keep an eye on
it, and a count on your piscine livestock." Bob Fenner has written
this statement and a search of brittle stars on our website will lead
you to it. I would remove/find a home for the starfish and see if
your losses stop.>
Thanks,
<You're welcome. James (Salty Dog)>
Frank...
Re: Disturbing Fish Fatalities Please Help!
8/15/13
James and Bob,
Thank You both. I will remove the bristle star tonight it is
the big green bristle tooth one as mentioned, so let me see about
finding him a home. Also one correction the phosphate reading .05
less than 1 ppm. a zero makes a big difference.
<Ah yes>
will update with some good news hopefully...
Frank
<BobF>
EMERGENCY 8/10/13
Dear Crew,
I need your urgent advice. I got up this morning just to find
one of my tanks(97L nano reef) filled up with transparent slimy
substance looking more like conjugated water with oxygen
trapped in it , floating everywhere covering everything. Never seen or
heard about this before.
Pumps stopped working as got filled with slime. There is hardly any
coral in this tank which could be suspected.
<Many aquatic organisms can generate copious amounts of mucin/mucus,
starting from very little material>
One clown fish was floating dead wrapped with it. Second clown and scarlet
hawkish was on the sand breathing heavily covered as well. I transferred
them to my much larger fish only with live rock system. Some
inverts(urchin, starfish , bristle worms) were dead ,few snails and
crabs and one starfish still alive were transferred
in emergency to FO system. Nothing apart from rock and sand is left
there anymore.
Done quick stripe test showing no ammonia and nitrite , some nitrate ,pH
well below 8.0(not very accurate test) so I’ve added extra buffer plus
some Prime to detoxify whatever could cause the problem.
<CHANGE as much of the water as you have available, NOW>
Now my problem is SECOND tank , the one I’ve transferred bits into as
the same floating slime gradually starts to form! I don’t know if this
is something I’ve transferred on affected specimens or maybe it starts
to form independently for the same underlying reason
but if that’s caused by some sort of bacteria I suspect it could be
both. It’s not extremely bad yet as fish behaviour hasn’t changed but
I’ve started to prepare for large water change.
<Good>
Again ,basic water test in FO system shows no major concern.
Water in nano tank was changed two days earlier in FO system 10-13 days
ago.
The only new chemical I started to use few days ago is Red Sea NO3 PO4
reducer(nano only). Other chemicals are buffer, reef snow, Ca, Mg and 2
other standard mineral additives.
<Mmm, any of these additions (except the Snow which isn't much of
anything) could "trigger" the reaction/slime>
It will take me good few hours to prepare large volume of water to
change and I am hoping to get your reply to get to the bottom of this
problem.
(I have a ozone generator , will it help if I use it?)
<Likely worthwhile. Yes>
Kindest regards
Daria
<Keep mixing up new water, storing for use. When/where in doubt, change
it out. That and some activated carbon, PolyFilter use in the
filter/flow path. Bob Fenner>
I'm lost, please help, myst. SW fish losses
7/21/13
Hello Crew,
<Joe>
I really could use some help with my sick blotched Anthias.
I purchased him from divers den about 3 months ago, I
quarantined him for about 3 weeks and then placed him in my display.
About 2 weeks later the symptoms began, first it was frayed
fins, then he wouldn't eat for days at a time and hide when he didn't
eat, when he came out he would swim across the tank fast open and
closing his mouth rapidly.
<... Mmm>
Then he would start eating and I tried feeding him Metronidazole
<Should only be done once...>
in his food as he ate right out of my hands when he feeds. Once he got
some meds in him he would be good for a few days then stop eating again
and hide.
When he was eating and he pooped it was often white and stringy so I
dosed him with some Praziquantel in his food as well. I'm trying
everything to save this fish.
Last week he started to hide and this time three of my other fish got
sick and died within 5 days, they would have no exterior symptoms at
all, some flashing and rubbing on rocks, lots of hiding and they stopped
eating. Once they stopped eating they were dead within a day or two,
once I moved them to the hospital tank and started SeaChem para guard.
The hospital tank is
cycled and has been running for months with no ammonia or nitrites and
low nitrates, I change the water every few days on the 20g hospital
tank.
The three fish that died last week were a blue jaw tile fish, I know
it's a difficult fish but I had it for 6 months a orange back fairy
wrasse and a bicolor Anthias.
<... these losses... What are the survivors? I see this below>
I moved the blotched Anthias to the hospital tank last week and I'm
dosing para guard.
I have a few fish left in my display which I hope to save, I have a
sailfin tang, chevron tang, large male flame wrasse, two Banggais, two
percula clowns, female bellus angel, one bicolor Anthias and a male
lineatus fairy wrasse. The lineatus has stopped eating 3 days ago and it
not looking well, I have been trying to catch him with no luck.
He swims good, is still muscular but he is hiding a lot and has
white or faded blotchy areas on his skin. I tried to get a
picture but he wont let me. All other fish are eating and I'm putting
SeaChem KanaPlex in there food to try to prevent anymore loss.
My set up is a 180 reef tank with lps and leathers, geo cal reactor, 40
gallon MRC custom sump with bio chamber and SeaChem matrix, vertex alpha
200 skimmer, I run HC GFO from bulk reef and carbon. I run a emperor
aquatics 40wt UV as well.
I tested today and my perimeters are, cal-430, alk 9.6 dKH, mag-1280,
phos-0, nitrate-.5, ammonia-0, nitrite-0.
Please help me out as I am loosing my prized fish and I don't want to
loose <lose> anymore.
I would appreciate any info you can give me
Thank you
Joe Marino
<What else livestock-wise is in this system? Cnidarians, recent live
rock addition/s? Bob Fenner>
|
|
Re: I'm lost, please help
7/22/13
Hi Bob,
<Joe>
Thanks for the fast response, to answer your question the only other
livestock are snails and hermit crabs.
The only recent addition was the blotched Anthias, about 3 months ago as far
as fish.
I added a couple of corals and the last one being about a month ago, a
sunflower coral.
<The Dendrophylliid I take it>
I dip all my new addition corals in coral RX for about 10 min.
<Not a fan... should be isolated, acclimated over weeks' time. See WWM re
Cnidarian allelopathy>
Here are some changes and events that have happened in the past few
months, maybe there is something that might be the cause.
I did install a new MRC custom sump with the new vertex alpha skimmer about
a month ago, in doing so I installed all new plumbing for my system. The old
sump had a small refugium inside and now i do not use a refugium anymore.
<What life had you placed there?>
The system was down for about 6 hours but the temp held steady for the most
part. I ran carbon as soon as I was done to clean up the water.
<Okay>
My system is monitored by an apex and about two months ago I started to
notice the ph dipping to about 7.80 at night and no more then 8.05 during
the day falling from about 8.2 during the day and 8.0 at night.
<Not really problematical>
This change happened over about two weeks, so I figured it was due to the
calcium reactor and I started to add Kalk to my auto top off, I add 4 tsp
per 5 gallons of RO top off water.
<Good>
Now the ph ranges from 7.95 at night to 8.19 during the day and it varies
every day. I know it's not a big difference but I'm just trying to think of
everything that has happened.
<Thank you; and again, this shift is natural, w/in range; not an issue>
I added some love <live?> rock about 4 months ago, or maybe longer then
that. I forgot
<Mmm, this is still my first guess as to source of your troubles here.
"Something" imported with the rock>
I started using Dr. Tim's re-fresh about a week ago, but I dosed only 1/4 of
what they recommend, I have a very small Cyano patch that lives on
one of my rocks.
<Mmm, could be "it">
I only dosed it once as I wanted to get to the bottom of this problem
before I worried about the Cyano.
One more issue with one of my fish that I forgot to mention, about 3 weeks
ago my sailfin started to get holes around his eyes which clearly looks like
hole in the head disease, it has not moved down the lateral line as of yet.
He is a ferocious eater so I now feed him Nori before I feed the rest of the
fish in an attempt to get him to not eat so much meaty foods, I also add
vitamin c to the Nori.
<Good>
That's about all of the events I can think of in the past few months, sorry
for the long emails but I'm just trying to be as detailed as I can I
appreciate your help
Thank you
Joe Marino
<Well; am leaning (still, guessing) to the transient biological poisoning
possibility... Fixing same? Water changes, paying attention to gross water
quality, use of carbon, perhaps PolyFilter or such. Bob Fenner> |
Re: acclimatization; Mmm, sand use in QT sys., BF dis f's
7/1/13
Hello my Mentor. :)
<Hola Tomasz!>
Regarding the sand I was concerned about whether to keep the fish in
tanks shop with sand or without it, how is better. Ok invalid.
<With sand is better unless the water, fish is being treated with
chemical/s that absorb it too much>
In Annex I send photo, if you could see and write what kind of
disease (bacteria / parasites). Is it contagious? if so, how to treat
other fish?
How to prevent.
<Looks like this Klein's Butterfly has been consumed by some sort of
flesh eating bacteria. But such infections are almost always secondary;
caused by primary challenges of the environment, some lack of nutrition,
bullying, luminal worm, external parasite issue/s... The bacteria only
jumping in number, pathogenicity due to weakening of the fish/food
consequently.
Please read here re:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/mardisease.htm
I installed on my system ozone. At this time, ORP is 270mV, I understand
that it would be best as that was 400mV?
<Yes; between 325 and 400 mV>
Thanks again for help Bob.
Tom
<Ah welcome. Bob Fenner>
|
|
Massacre in two tanks in one day. Mis-stocking, study
6/13/13
I have two new saltwater tanks that are about 8 weeks old. One
is 125 gal. The other is 55 gal. I used R.O. Water to
start the tanks as I own a car wash that produces R.O. Water.
<Nice to have such a ready source, volume>
I only had live rock and a few snails and crabs in each. The water
in both tanks has been testing great
<Mmm, need test values if they're pertinent>
and I started adding more fish the large tank has three small
tangs
<Uhh, Acanthurids don't often get along...>
two clowns and seven damsels. The small tank had two clowns and six
"pajamas" and a purple angel.
<? What is this last? A tang, Zebrasoma xanthurum?>
On Tuesday we did a 20% water change with both tanks, cleaned the filters
and added a cleanup crew I ordered from live aquaria online.
<A very good source>
That evening the water levels were still right on and everything looked
good. In the morning one of the new tangs was dead.
<... Stop. Need to know what species you're talking here>
I called my fish guy and he said it could be from not eating or just a
sick fish from the beginning, he was only in the tank two weeks. So I
left the house for about three hours and when I got back all the
fish in both tanks were dead but all the snails and crab and anenimy
<... what species is this? And Anemones/Actinarians shouldn't be placed
in such new systems>
(forgot to mention those) were alive still.
<... the anemone is the current most likely culprit...>
The tanks are both still testing fine, no ammonia all other levels are
in the safe zone...
<For what can be, you're testing. There's MUCH more>
even the fish guy is stumped and he does this for a living...
<I did this for a few decades>
the only common denominator in both tanks was the R.O. Water and the new
livestock. I'm now afraid to ever ad anymore fish until we figure
out what happened...got any suggestions?
<... Well; yes. To slow down here... stop placing livestock, start
reading... ahead of simply buying life and placing it where it can't go.
Let's start with the beginning... what general reference works (books)
have you read? Bob Fenner>
Re: Massacre in two tanks in one day. Mar. dis. f'
6/14/13
Attention: Bob Fenner
<Nancy>
Thanks for responding so fast. The tangs were two yellow, and one blue
with yellow tail. They were getting along great.
<Ah good>
The anemones were in the tank for two weeks with the fish.
<Again, and now there are more than one? They don't "go" in new systems,
and can react disastrously to changing conditions; killing off fish and
some invertebrate livestock>
The water tests were 0 ammonia , NO3 0ppm, NO2 .03ppm, alkalinity 300
ppm,
pH 8.0
<Ok>
I'm new to this, so I don't have the names down but it was a purple
color with yellow on its belly and the shape of a South African cichlid.
But there was only one in the small tank, none in the large tank.
The tang that died first was one of the yellow tangs.
The anemones were placed in the tank a week after the fish after
everything tested well.
<... no. Whose idea, input led you to believe they could be placed?>
<Please read here:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/marine/inverts/cnidaria/anthozoa/anemones.htm
and the Compatibility FAQs linked above for the group and species you
have>
They have tall orange colored bodies with finger looking tentacle with
bright purple tips. The only new livestock was the snails and crabs from
live aquaria.
I haven't read a lot, I had been researching info on the Internet for
weeks before I started. Then I hired a professional and have been
getting advice from local pet stores that specialize in salt water
tanks.
<Okay... but better to delve a bit more yourself, make your own
decisions>
If you don't know of something that could have poisoned the tanks that
came from the clean up crew, than it would have to be a problem with
my RO water. That is the only two things that changed
in the last 24 hours.
<Does your commercial system have a "contactor" system,
removable/changed-out cylinder by a service company? Or is it just the
tris membranes?>
The fact that both tanks crashed in a three hour time period, 24
hours after the water change is wired. I know we shouldn't have added
new live stock and done a water change and cleaned the filters at the
same time, could this cause the massacre?
<Again; not likely, unless there IS something about the water...
I do agree that something very coincidental is going on if both systems
crashed so soon and close to each other... a few hours after the partial
change out.
You could test the RO water with some inexpensive livestock... BobF>
Re: Massacre in two tanks in one day. SW trbsht. f'; RO?
6/16/13
BobF,
Thanks for the reply. I don't believe the RO tank has a
contactor system - there is a filter the water passes through first,
<What is in this first filter? How often is it serviced? Call the folks
who do this work for you and ask what the media is, and how it is
recharged>
and a 'membrane'/filter that it goes through second. What are the
hazards related to not having a contactor system?
<... too many to list; some materials in some source water can "clog"
the RO membrane... foremost>
Before the water goes to the RO tank it passes through the soft water
tank, which is tested for hardness by the city. If this systems backflow
valve failed and chemicals were introduced that may likely be the cause
but I would think that would have killed everything not just the gilled
livestock.
<Hard to say w/o knowing what was introduced>
In regard to the anemone - I understand your position, but could you
explain how they can be so toxic?
<... please learn to/use the search tool on WWM. Much of all this is
gone over and over, archived on the site. B>
Do they have the capacity to poison the tank water or are they dangerous
only to fish they come into contact with?
Thank you
Nancy
Commercial fish losses, SW 5/14/13
Hello Mr. Fenner,
My name is Tom and I come from Poland (Eastern Europe).
Already looked through Your web page several times, inspired on it to
acclimate. I have a question. I have a marine aquarium shop and I import
animals from Indonesia (travel time of fish around 27 - 30 hours).The
whole process of acclimatization is as follows;
- Check the pH and temperature of the water transport of fish
- Preparing the water from system with the appropriate pH.
- I am adding Methylene blue to the water
.- I give the water droplet method
- I add air stones
- The acclimatization process takes approximately 10 - 11h
<!>
So in a nutshell. I would like to ask you about the chemical changes in
the body of fish, especially of ammonia. All fish live about 10 - 14
days without any loss at this time begin to die, not all but some have
on your body staining red. I would like to make my acclimatization was
brought to perfection. I understand that this is the cause of action of
ammonia, but if there is the possibility of the extension of
acclimatization to say 15 - 20h or other factors, to avoid the health of
the fish (ammonia poisoning)? If I have the poisoned fish in the
transport bag, this process is not reversible, and ends with the death
of the fish?
Despite a long acclimatization?
I would my cause all the animals were healthy and enjoyed the
owner for a long time. I would be very grateful for all information /
guidance.
Sorry for my language i hope You understand.
Best Regards
Tom
<Mmm, well the red body markings and "incubation" time bring to mind
Vibrio... Not likely due, or very related to your exhaustive acclimation
procedure. This process should take no more than a few hours. Do you
have a ORP/RedOx means of measure? Use Ozone in your facility?>
Thanks for quick answer, what is Vibrio ? Is bacteria? No, i don't
use ozone, I do not have the meter ORP/REDOX in an aquarium fish. A good
solution would be a longer acclimatization 20 - 24h ?This could help
prevent the occurrence the red body of the fish? Thanks for your
help.
<Vibrio is a genus of bacteria... sometimes important (very) in marine
fish culture. I do encourage you to delve/read re Ozone use, the measure
of ORP... a very useful tool for monitoring water quality. Longer
acclimation won't help. BobF.>
I am writing as requested. 5/15/13
<From FB, good>
How do I get rid of the bacteria? Is there a way?
<Yes... the best is through prevention: in turn from optimizing water
quality. DO search WetWebMedia.com re Bacterial Disease>
How long do you propose to acclimate the fish with 30-hour stay in the
bag?
<Should only take a few hours maximum. See Commercial Acclimation on
WWM>
I'm using the UV sterilizer fish. the use of ozone can help?
<Yes; though the UV does produce O3... I'd measure RedOx first here>
I'm sorry that it takes up your time
<Why I'm here>
Best Regards
Tom
<Cheers, Bob Fenner>
--
/Pozdrawiam Tomasz Burkat/
Ocean Life-Akwarystyka Morska
Re: acclimatization 5/16/13
Hi,
Thank You very much, for any advice.
If I have any questions I can write? you do not mind?
All the best
Tom
<Please do write me Tom. There are a few ideas I'd like to introduce to
you... the use of microscopes, perhaps you developing a liaison with a
local college and veterinary practice there. Cheers, Bob Fenner>
Re: acclimatization, ongoing dis. troubleshooting, comm.
5/17/13
Thanks,
<Welcome Tom>
I have a question, if I may ask.
<Sure>
You write about acclimatization for few hours, and if pH in bag is
7 pH or mostly lower,
This few hours acclimatization with raising the pH to 8.2 pH value, will
not adversely affect the health of the fish?
<Oh, indeed it will... hence the need to raise... back up, to your
systems pH, over time...>
how does it affect the health of the fish few hours acclimatization? For
example, a slowly acclimate for 15 -20 hours? I'm very curious.
<There is a "trade off" here, with the stress/strain in the balance in
exchange for more rapid adjustment. Better to do all this in a few
hours, versus a few tens of hours>
during the acclimatization of fish I use Methylene blue, I was wondering
about the use of antibiotics during acclimatization what do you think?
<I do like the use of Methylene Blue. Have never used Antibiotics, nor
heard of folks employing during acclimation>
you are my mentor in this field. :)
<Am glad to share what I know, suspect and have heard/read from others
with you>
Thank You and I wish You a nice weekend.
<Thank you my friend. Bob Fenner>
All the Best
Tom
Wrasse bacterial infection 4/17/13
Hi crew! I've been treating a Yellow Wrasse, Flame Angel and a Goby in a
QT with PraziPro for 2 weeks. Three days ago the Wrasse hid in the small
bowl of sand I put in there for him. He didn't come out at all. Today I
got him out and he had red blotches on his belly. I figured he had a
secondary bacterial infection from the flukes.
<More likely just stress, being moved...>
I set up a hospital tank for him and by the time I went to get him out he
was dead. I took a picture of him (attached) and was hoping someone
could tell me if this is indicative of a bacterial infection? Also do I
need to worry about the other fish in the tank? Thank you! Jen
<May be bacterial... secondary. The mark dorsally on the caudal peduncle
looks more like the after-effects of a bite to me. I would be concerned
re the other fishes period. Move them back to the main/display
ASAPractical.
Bob Fenner>
|
|
Re: Wrasse bacterial infection
4/17/13
Hi Bob! The main tank has only been fallow for 15 days. I have done a ton of
research as to the fallow period for flukes but can not find any consistent
answers. Some responses say 2 weeks, others say 12 weeks. The Flame and
Wrasse had flukes and so far the Flame looks good, eating good, etc. I have
one more round of PraziPro to go.
Should I be concerned as far as the safety of the other fish in the tank or
because of spread of infection? Thank you, Jen
<Just the overall stress level/s. BobF>
Re: Wrasse bacterial infection
Will do! Thanks Bob!
<Ah, welcome Jen. BobF> |
Disease Identification... Marine Disease> Protozoan?>
Crypt?> ID f' 4/10/13
Hello WWM Crew!
I have a couple of questions regarding disease identification and
treatment.
Tank info: Fish only, 55 gallons, 3 months old, Ammonia 0, Nitrites 0,
Nitrates 5, pH 8.0, salinity 1.010 (undergoing hyposalinity right now).
<... see WWM re>
Inhabitants: 1 Flame angelfish, 1 royal gramma, 1 Barrett's Anthias, 1
Striped mandarin fish (which is eating Selcon/Vita-chem. supplemented
Nutramar ova and can be fed pods from a culture I have if he starts
losing weight), and 2 tank-bred ocellaris clowns. All fish quarantined
for 3 weeks before introduction.
I know that hypo is not a great idea with clownfish, but I'm afraid my
fish may have Ich and, for moral reasons, I'd prefer to lose the
tank-bred clownfish because of hyposalinity (I'm happy to have paid
money to support this industry) than lose the wild-caught flame angel
because of copper.
<There are other (better, more effective, sure) treatments; i.e. quinine
compounds. See WWM re>
I've been watching the clownfish and they are very lively with good
appetites. Hypo treatment has been going for 5 days now. Would you
please help me diagnose?
<Need samples and a microscope... all else is guessing>
Symptoms consistent with Ich: small .5-1mm spots that disappear in a few
days, spots do not move from place to place on the fish, somewhat rapid
breathing, visible on all fish (each fish only has between 1 and 5
visible spots but this number is growing slowly), no excess mucus being
produced.
Symptoms that don't match Ich: the spots are more of a greyish/white
translucent color, growth in number of spots over time seems slower than
usual for Ich (although this may be due to the hyposalinity treatment
limiting them), fish are not scratching on rocks but do twitch on very
rare occasions, all fish have 1 or more spots, spots are located on the
body but not on the fins (yet).
I already treated the fish with general cure (Metronidazole and
Praziquantel) during quarantine, so I don't think worms are the issue.
Do you think the fish have Ich or something else?
<Can only guess w/ what is presented. Again, simple enough to do a real
look/see... from what you describe, these markings, mucus could well be
just body slime, reaction to the med. exposure, handling and low spg>
If so, I'd rather not treat with copper... After doing a lot of digging
and research, I have found some info on Chloroquine Phosphate and
Quinine Sulfate (Crypto-Pro).
<Ah yes; preferred treatments currently>
From cruising WWM, it seems that you prefer Chloroquine Phosphate out of
those two. Do you think that this medication will eradicate whatever
protozoan/parasite my fish have?
<... I would NOT treat them, these fishes, w/o sampling and examination.
ALL treatments are toxic, debilitating in kinds, degrees>
Also, can it be combined with hyposalinity? If you think I should just
do hypo, I'd love to know that. But I'd still like to know if CP or QS
is safe in combination with it. I know copper is not. Finally, does
either CP or QS stain aquarium sealant, decorations, etc? Since the tank
only contains the fish, dead base rock that was bought dry, and
nitrifying bacteria that I added from the brand "Stability," I'd like to
treat that tank.
Thank you for you advice and this wonderful resource! Sorry for the
lengthy email. I have realized that attention to detail is essential in
this hobby. Brielle
<Welcome little Bri. Bob Fenner>
Re: Disease Identification– 04/10/13
Thank you for your advice, Bob! I'll stop the hypo treatment and
continue to watch the fish/not treat them. I am hoping that you can
answer the last questions on my email though, in case the symptoms
worsen. I have had saltwater fish before (about five years ago) and they
died from an Ich outbreak because I didn't know how to handle it.
<This is, unfortunately, the "end" to many salt water aquarists
involvement in the hobby. Worse/worst for the fact that if people in the
collection to wholesale ends of the trade would employ simple pH
adjusted freshwater dips/baths, the vast majority of such infestations
would be avoided>
I would love to have the proper knowledge/medications on hand, since I
have to order meds online and know they take awhile to arrive. I know
Ich is very common, so since I am still quarantining/introducing fish to
this tank, I'd like to have the proper med. on hand and the knowledge on
how to use it correctly. Your thoughts are much appreciated!
1. Is Chloroquine Phosphate more effective than Quinine Sulfate?
<Yes>
2. Can either/both of these be combined with hypo?
<Not really; no>
3. Does either CP or QS stain aquarium sealant, decorations, etc?
<Neither do; though semi-semi-relatedly they're both better applied in
lower (less bright) light settings>
4. It seems that these two meds harm the biological filter somewhat, but
don't completely disable it. Is this true?
<Yes>
Again, thank you so much for your help!
Little Bri :D
<Certainly welcome. BobF>
Re: Disease Identification– 04/10/13
Have a wonderful day and thank you for the quick responses!
Little Bri
<Ahh! B>
Sailfin tang help, and trigger... anomalous hlth. issue
4/4/13
So I have had my sailfin tang for nearly a year. He ate everyday
pellets, frozen foods, and seaweed. He stopped eating out of nowhere I
have dipped his food in garlic and nothing. He also has like a ball that
I just noticed on his stomach to make it worst he swims weird now, he
bobs his head down a lot. What ever he has has taken my Niger trigger as
well please help
my fish.
<... the root/cause here could be a few... for worm parasites I'd try a
treatment of an anthelminthic here (see WWM, search w/ the term); likely
Praziquantel (note that other worms will be killed in the process)...
There might be something going on w/ water quality, so I'd do a series
of good-sized water change-outs, try some activated carbon, perhaps
PolyFilter in your filter or water flow path... Lastly, all else
failing, I'd move the mal-affected fishes elsewhere; to another
established system. Bob Fenner>
Help Needed!! Anomalous marine fish losses
1/30/13
Hello my friend !!!
<Kostas>
Here is a photo for you.
<Yikes>
This lori was into my reef aquarium for about 3 months without any
problems ever. Along with him is a Zebrasoma xanthurus and a Salarias
and a Guttata.
<Not altogether obviously>
Yesterday morning we noticed a very tiny piece that was missing from his
upper fin. Into a few hours the problem was growing bigger and bigger
and some other pieces of his body where turning "pale" let's say. Like
losing it's colors. My father added an ozonizer but the wound kept going
bigger and bigger until we lost him today morning.
Any clue what was this?? Or what happened after all this time??
<In this short a time frame? Something eating the Flame>
The same thing happened at a ciliaris
<A "ciliaris" what?>
20 cm that I received from TMC. Here you go with the situation back
then. I received a large ciliaris from TMC that was absolutely great ,
maybe one of the best ciliaris I have ever seen!! It's colors , it's
attitude , everything. The same day I received fishes from Indonesia. So
in the same aquarium I kept ciliaris I added some small Valenciennea
strigata from indo. After 2 days a problem similar to them photo started
at the end of the upper fin of ciliaris , starting losing it's color and
it's body We once again added an ozonizer without results ,
<What does the RedOx measure here?>
so we also lost this fish. I assumed though that strigata from indo had
some bacteria problems that pass on the ciliaris so I believed that was
my mistake , but with lori I do not know what happened so I need your
help.
I would appreciate it if this could stay between us ;) you can
understand why ;)
Best regards
<Bob Fenner>
|
|
Re: Help Needed!! SW fish losses, anomalous
1/30/13
What do you mean altogether??? Not altogether anymore?? Yes indeed.
<That the Tangs or Algae Blenny might well be picking on these fishes>
What could possibly eat the flame from these fishes???
<As above... any>
A Holacanthus Ciliaris.
<A Queen Angel... usually very tough>
So you believe that has to do with RedOx??
<... may be... again, the reading, confirmed? B>
Re: Help Needed!! 1/31/13
About Ciliaris , what do you think?? Could be bacteria that came along
with Indo fish??
<Not to kill, digest it in a few hours time, no. B>
I will send you the RedOx measurement tomorrow.
Thanks
|
Mysterious fish deaths
1/21/13
I have been in the saltwater hobby for about 4 1/2
years. I started out with FOWLR tank, but for the past year or so
have been gradually adding several low-light requiring and easy to care
for soft corals, including mushrooms, Kenya Tree Coral, and some button
polyps. In November I added a toadstool.
<Okay... you're aware I take it, of the sorts of chemical warfare the
Shrooms, Polyps and Sarcophyton commonly engage in>
Tank is 75 gallon. Currently lit by a fixture with actinic and
daylight T5, one fixture with a marine bulb, T8, and a glow stick with
an bluish marine light bulb. Anyways, I have ordered an LED
lighting system which is supposed to be a replacement for metal halide,
and will provide higher lighting level. Also recently added a
bare- bottomed 20 gallon fuge/sump with Chaeto under my tank.
Current tank params are: Ammonia and Nitrite 0, Nitrate 20 ppm
(adding the fuge recently is in hopes of getting the nitrate down
further). Have deep sand bed, Aqua C Remora skimmer, use 1/2
Instant Ocean and 1/2 Instant Ocean Reef for my salt mix for replacement
water. I do weekly water changes. Currently my fish are:
a Cleaner Shrimp, a Yellow Tang, a Coral Beauty Angelfish, two small
Ocellaris Clowns a Royal Gramma, a Banggai Cardinalfish, and numerous
(mostly small) snails to stir up the deep sand bed and eat algae and
detritus.
Anyways, my problem is, since shortly before Christmas I have been
experiencing strange fish deaths. What happens is a fish will seem
fine, and then all of a sudden it will rapidly dash all over the place
in one area of the tank, and then turn over dead and sink to the bottom.
This happened to a Royal Gramma 8 days before Christmas, then to a Blue
Reef Chromis 8 days later.
<... so... guess thus far, some sort of allelopathy... alluded to above.
The sump/refugium should help>
I haven't noticed any symptoms of illness prior to this happening.
Thought maybe it was stray voltage in the tank, and checked with a
voltmeter and there did seem to be a low level (4 volts) of stray
voltage.
<Eh! This much can actually be induced... by rotating a charged solution
in space... how electricity is made in one common way>
Replaced a pump, and the stray voltage seemed to disappear.
I thought I had the problem solved, and then yesterday, close to a month
later, it happened again and I lost my remaining Blue Reef Chromis.
What could be causing this? My male Ocellaris and Coral Beauty
occasionally seem to pick on other fish, but only rarely, that I have
noticed. Today I was wondering if the toadstool I got could be
releasing a toxin, since it doesn't seem to be very happy, since it fell
in the tank recently. (By the way, the first incident of this
happening was not long after I got the toadstool).
Any ideas you might have on what the problem might be and how I can
resolve it would be much appreciated.
Thank you
Marlyce G
<Well, the one damsel lost may be anomalous; but I'd have you read on
WWM:
http://wetwebmedia.com/cnidcompppt.htm
and the linked (FAQs) files above... some recommendations are presented
of worth/note, in using chemical filtrants, an appropriate approach to
introducing new Cnidarian life principally. Do write back if you're not
clear on this after reading. Bob Fenner>
Fish deaths and other "new fish" questions 1/18/2013
Hi Crew, Hope 2013 is finding all of you in good health. I have a few questions about some recent (as in the last 8 months) fish deaths I've had plus some questions on some new fish I have gotten. Tank is 125
gal, 30 gal sump, 30 gal refugium...The sump & refugium are just a couple months old. I previously had a 25
gal sump with no refugium. About 8 months ago, my Copperband butterfly fish that I've had for 5 years got real skinny, even though he was eating, and finally passed on. Tested my parameters, Sg 1.025, no ammonia, nitrite, nitrate 40 ppm (hence the refugium addition) and calcium, magnesium have always been on the high side (can't remember exact figures) Seachem reef salt is what I have always used. About a couple of months ago I added the new sump and refugium, this entailed the break down of my tank so the fish, Hippo tang, 2 Ocellaris Clownfish, Harlequin Tusk, Foxface Rabbitfish, Algae Blenny, 1 RBTA, and 2 big pieces of live rock were housed in the 30 gallon long refugium for about 5 hours while the fish guys went to town. Rest of the LR was in buckets. Two days later my RBTA split, I'm sure due to stress so I wasn't that surprised. A couple weeks after that, my tusk started acting
weird, laying on the sand on his side, not coming out to eat and I could tell he was on his way out. I got the tusk, butterfly, and
Foxface all around the same time 5/6 years ago. Two days later he was gone and was fished out shortly after. No visible wounds. <Mmm, what is coming to mind here? Something re continuous exposure to NO3, what it might entail... the high biomineral content of the water?>
The next day, I did a 40 gallon water change, checked parameters, all the same as above. Had a big diatom breakout but with the new sand in the refugium and some more added to the tank I wasn't surprise, and am currently in battle with some
Cyano (added another Vortech) and a bigger skimmer (Octopus Diablo). No new Live Rock, just rearranged to give a bigger swimming area. <All sounds good>
Well, ever since the Tusk died, my Foxface has that stressed coloring and will not come out from behind the rocks when any one is near, when I watch him from afar, I see him swimming about and playing by the new Vortech MP40 as I'm sure he is loving the increased flow but he still has the stress colors. He used to come right up and stick his head in the net that I use to feed them with but now he just hides with that stressed coloring. Only additions since the Tusk died, is a small
derasa clam, 1 Lyretail Anthias, a blood shrimp, and a blue spotted
Jawfish who's home is the refugium (only one with a top). The Foxface is about 5 or 6 years old now and the biggest fish in my tank. Could this be why he is stressed? Checked water parameters, still the
same, GRRR with the nitrate!! <Any room there, in the main system for a DSB of size/volume?>
I feed PE Mysis and H2O's mixed reef and fish food soaked in Selcon. Been a little heavy handed with the
Jawfish but he's eating good. As far as the Anthias, the female was the only one left at the fish store but I wanted to add a couple more when they come in and have been there for a couple of weeks. Would I be able to do this or since she's in there by herself, is it too late now that she is finding her own
niche? <Better to add the extra females>
Thanks again....Perhaps it's old age, goodness knows, I feel it myself!! <Oh yes... on a dive outing currently with (surprise!) two more folks older than I. I'd add the DSB if possible/practical, and for general principle/practice, some activated carbon, perhaps a pad of PolyFilter in your filter/water flow path... These "anomalous losses" worry me as well. Bob Fenner>
Re: Fish deaths and other "new fish" questions 1/18/2013
Thanks for the quick response Bob. I'm working the DSB, started at 3 inches, working my way up to 6 in the refugium, tried adding red
Gracilaria (sp??)
<Ah, yes. genus Gracilaria... "Ogo" in Hawaii/an>
didn't do well so I ordered some Chaeto.
<Also a good choice>
With the new sump I have filter socks instead, thinking of removing these, could
they be a contributing factor?
<Oh yes... I'd at least switch them out, rotate clean daily... yes, every
day. Or do away w/ completely>
I also want to get a PhosBan reactor to put carbon in,
<Mmm, see WWM re... not a fan of by and large. Not needed; and some important downsides>
I've read it's better if the water is forced through it and with the filter socks, it's not really forced through. Have fun with your Dive. I'll just continue to freeze up here in Minnesota. I'm jealous.
<Brrrrrr! BobF>
Disappearing Burrowing Fish 11/24/12
Hello there,
Way back in June, I purchased my first Jawfish, a yellowhead. He was
doing great, had a burrow, ate aggressively, and his fins were healing
up from when I bought him. Then ( I think I had him for at LEAST 2.5
weeks) I did a pretty big water change, my parameters were good, but I
figured I might as well do one. I did it with offshore ocean water that
had been in dark storage and capped for a while.
<A good two weeks if it were my S.O.P.>
Then, the JF stopped putting a rock over his burrow at night, for two
nights, then, he disappeared. I couldn't find him on the floor, pasted
against a powerhead or overflow, and the biggest fish in my tank is a
1-2 inch ocean surgeonfish. I never found him, didn't experience an
ammonia spike, and no corals shriveled, and I don't think the water
change did him in since the other fish didn't react to it.
<Mmm, maybe>
I think his burrow may have caved in.
<Almost always can/do dig themselves back out>
Now, I lost a goldenhead goby. He had a burrow (Do they burrow
normally?)
<Yes>
RIGHT on the jawfish's old burrow. He was
pretty shy, didn't eat when everyone else did, but ate the pellets i
dropped in his burrow. He started getting used to the tank and started
sifting freely outside of his burrow, and now he's gone again. I think
it might've been another cave in, except that NOTHING on top of the
burrow shifted, and the burrow is underneath a huge piece of LR that
spans about 1 foot. It's been less than a day since he went missing, but
it's disheartening to see another burrowing fish disappear so quickly,
especially if he has the same burrow as the JF.
Thanks a ton!
<Mmm, well, I should ask re the make-up (size, shape, amount) of your
substrate... to assure, urge that it is something appropriate. Next,
there may be predator (unknown) like a large Bristleworm, a pistol or
mantis shrimp here... I would try baiting, trapping (at night, see WWM
re techniques, under "Compatibility FAQs for each group)... Bob Fenner>
I keep losing new additions to my marine tank
11/16/12
Hi,
<Hello Glenda>
I have a 400L reef tank which has been running since June, live rock,
invertebrates, coral and fish.
I cycled my tank for 6 weeks before adding any live stock.
I do a weekly water change and my ammonia, nitrates etc are always zero,
pH spot on.
I run skimmer, chiller, bio balls and Rowa Phos in a bed filter. Led
lights and Vortech MP40W Es fans.
<Ok>
My problem is all my corals, invertebrates and the first fish I added to
the tank an Angel beauty,
Six line wrasse and Red hawk fish are great. But now every time I add
any new fish to the tank they die.
<Possibly killed by one of the inhabitants. The Hawk and Angel will not
accept there own genus. Six lines can be quite rambunctious.>
If there was a disease in the tank wouldn’t it kill my older fish too?
<Yes.>
The new fish always are eating and seem happy then overnight they just
die.
I don’t quarantine my new arrivals as I live in a unit and just don’t
have the space.
<This is a time bomb; QT tanks can be small.>
I am at a loss as to what is causing this.
<Stressed, sick, aggression... The list is long. Using a proper QT would
allow for observation and help determine the cause.
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/ca/volume_3/cav3i4/quarantine/Quarantine.htm
>
Please help
<Jordan>
Re: I keep losing new additions to my marine tank 11/16/12
Thanks for getting back to me so soon regarding my problem, I will set
up a quarantine tank before I add any new additions.
<Wonderful, this will definitely help you in the long term.>
Just a little concerned as to how to go about this, will have to read up
on it more. I thought the quarantine tank had to be cycled like the
display tank,
Otherwise how do I keep ammonia, nitrates etc under control.
<Water changes. Read more here on QT setup and use--
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/QuarMarFishes.htm >
Glenda
<Jordan>
Fish died in 24 hours 8/26/12
Hi, just found your website and its very helpful. We have a
5ft marine tank (corals and fish) with sump. We use
carbon and have uv sterilizer (bulb changed regularly). A few
weeks ago we had an outbreak of Whitespot which killed off two thirds of
our fish.
<No fun>
We changed sterilizer bulb although it showed as not needing to be
changed. The Whitespot seemed to clear and for a week or so the
other fish seemed healthy, then all of a sudden they started to die.
<Mmm>
The would gasp for breath at the bottom of the tank but
still eating and within 48 hours would be dead but have no obvious signs
of parasites, sores etc. All water tests are within range (shop
has tested water to).
<Need your own kits... samples change over time, transport>
Have not done a copper test yet but will tomorrow.
<?... the soft corals would be dead if there was appreciable Cu>
Left tank with no fish for four weeks, then added a damsel.
The damsel died within 24 hours. We use no products or
sprays as I am allergic to most things and wash and rinse our hands
thoroughly if for any reason we need to put hands in the tank (will use
gloves from now on).
<Good>
We have checked all appliances for damage and have found nothing. Please
help.
Jamie and Terry
<I fully suspect there is/was some sort of "cascade event" w/ the
challenging of your fishes, likely in turn eliciting an overt reaction
from your "Soft Corals" (please list by species, genera if you write
back)...
with them releasing toxins in the water... Please read here:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/envdisphysiof.htm
Bob Fenner>
Re: Fish died in 24 hours 8/27/12
Bob, Thank you for your quick response. I followed your link and read
through the articles. It made me remember that before we had the
Whitespot the tank was overrun with long haired green algae on the rocks
and red algae on the sand.
<These might well have been Blue Greens (Cyanobacteria)... see WWM re>
We bought some urchins and a sea hare
<This last often problematical as well... most sold in the trade are
temperate species, not tropical... again... see WWM re>
and it finally cleared. Shortly after this the fish came down with
Whitespot etc The corals we have are as follows: Green Star polyps
(Pachyclavularia Violacea)
<Quite toxic>
Nephtheidae
<What?>
Hammer Coral (Euphyllia Parancora)
<... almost assuredly an allelopathogenic situation>
- hasn't opened for 3 days Hairy Mushrooms (Rhodactis Sp) Actinodiscus
Mushrooms Duncan's Coral (Duncanopsammia Axifuga)Pulse Coral (Xenia Sp)
Birds Nest Coral (Seriatopora Hystrix) - starting to bleach Gorgonian
Tree (Pacific Gorgonian Sulawesl)
<.... see WWM re each>
Montipora Our Starfish and crabs are fine and we have two clams that are
healthy as well. We can't find our peppermint shrimps (although
that's no surprise as they usually hide in the rocks). I hope how I have
listed our corals is OK. Jamie and Terry
<Stop writing and get reading. B>
Re: Itchy Fish. SW... disease diagnosis
8/21/12
Bob, I am writing not to argue but it seems we were both wrong here. I
looked extensively on the internet in regards to disease symptoms none
of which that I could find matches bacterial or fungal infections and I
decided as my copper levels were very low and the symptoms did not
resemble Ich or Oodinium I was at a loss, the only symptoms were large
grey blotches over the body and loss of appetite.
<... Microscopic examination...>
Sadly the Regal Angel died. What I found strange is that descriptions
for bacterial and fungal infections listed symptoms like stringy white
matter, red fins etc. I decided to treat with Mardel Maracyn Plus which
contained a part description matching and after 4 days the Emperor is
eating and the blotches are gone.
<Ah good>
The reason I write is to hopefully help others where the symptoms are
the same without the fast breathing of Ich and Oodinium. Regards,
Adam.
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