Likely Territory Size for Orange Spot Watchman Goby? -- 10/29/10
Hi gang,
<<Hey Chuck>>
I was looking to purchase an orange spot watchman goby to help stir up my DSB and handle a light-but-persistent diatom problem in my sand bed.
<<A great fish for this -- if you can handle them 'crop-dusting' your rockwork/sessile inverts as they glide over your reef expelling a mouthful of substrate as they go. Just a not'¦ An Amblygobius species would be less prone to this than the Valenciennea puellaris you mention here, but, will be more 'disturbing' to a DSB re its burrowing>>
I was wondering how large a 'territory' the goby is likely to work -- in terms of distance from its burrow, once it chooses one.
<<In my experience, this fish and other species like it (e.g. -- Amblygobius species, etc.) are going to 'work' the entire substrate in most any 'hobby-size' system. Even though they will accept most prepared foods offered (and this is key to their long-term good health as most every hobby system will not provide enough 'natural' substrate fauna), the fish is still going to forage throughout the tank>>
It would be great if one fish would 'wander' throughout most of the tank to feed, but I'm not sure if this is likely.
<<It will -- it will also 'move' its home/burrow from time to time>>
And/or how far of a distance he (or she) is likely to be belligerent vs. another goby, if they're not a mated pair.
<<For all but the largest systems ('several' hundred gallons or more) it's best to keep one to a system -- even of different but similar species>>
I've got a six foot 220 gallon reef... two moderately sized LR 'mountains' separated by a couple feet of bare 'beach'...
<<Very nice - a sugar-fine substrate is preferred by the Goby>>
which seems to minimize territorial issues.
<<Indeed>>
I know it's unusual, but I've actually got three pairs of adult clownfish (black-and-white, true percs, and maroon and gold) established and dwelling together in peace by making sure the terrain is separated by horizontal and vertical rock faces, and making sure they bonded with different 'host' species (green fuzzy mushrooms, frogspawn, and Zoanthids, respectively).
<<Hopefully the peace will continue as these fish mature>>
Thanks in advance for any help on this...
Chuck
<<Happy to share'¦ EricR>>

Orange Spotted Diamond Goby afraid of new Two Spot Bristletooth   12/5/08 Tang Dear Wet Web Media, <Laura> I have an 85 gallon reef tank with a 2.5" live sand bed and plenty of live rock with the following parameters: KH 9 Calcium 450 Magnesium 1350 Ammonia 0 Nitrite 0 Nitrate 0 Phosphates 0 Temperature 77-78.5 Tank has a very efficient protein skimmer and a refugium with Chaetomorpha growing in it. Water changes are done monthly. I supplement with trace elements, iron, strontium, calcium, and potassium iodide regularly. My tank is 9 months old Inhabitants are: 1 Multicolor Pygmy Angel 1 Golden Rhomboidalis Wrasse 1 Fiji Yellow Sailfin Blenny 2 Black and White Ocellaris Clowns 1 Midas Blenny 1 Royal Gramma 1 Diamond Watchman Goby 2 Cleaner Shrimp 3 Fire Shrimp 2 Emerald Crabs Cleaner crew of Blue Hermit Crabs and Cerith Snails obtained from GARF. Many SPS and LPS corals and one Crocea clam I did have a Citron Clown Goby that recently passed away, due primarily (my best assumption) to malnutrition. Her stomach was concave most of her life (I had her about 6 months) and she would never eat well enough for me to feel comfortable. <Very... too common> With the exception of my Sailfin Blenny (loves Julian Sprung's Reef Veggies!), my tank thrives of Spectrum Thera-A pellets, Cyclopeeze, Phytoplankton, and the Sea Veggies daily. Now for my dilemma...My last and final fish was added approximately 6 days ago - a "teenage" Two Spot Bristletooth Tang. It is by far the largest fish in the tank (that is why I added it last) at about 4 inches. She has settled in quite well, eating the Spectrum Thera-A pellets and Sea Veggies voraciously. My Multicolor Pygmy Angel has definitely had some stress issues with her, I say this because she has been swimming in kind of a loop at one end of the tank, something she was not doing before the Tang came in. But, she seems to be settling down as each day passes and I don't see a real issue here. My Wrasse hid behind a rock the first day the Tang came in, and since has been out and about and acting completely normal. The problem (surprise!) is with the Diamond Watchman Goby. <This is surprising to me as well> She is very frightened of the tang, and will not venture out from under her rock covered with mushrooms. If she does come out, the tang zooms down to see it, and with a cloud of sand, the goby is back under the rock. I don't know if there is true aggression on the part of the Tang - I have seen her zoom at the Goby a few times when the Goby gets enough nerve up to try to come out. I have been very worried and have been spot feeding her the Spectrum Pellets (she loves these) with a turkey baster near her home twice a day. This just makes the Tang hang around there more, increasing the problem! I am not sure what to do. The Goby was incredibly active and entertaining before the Tang came in, and sifted sand the entire day, even ate Sea Veggies from our veggie clip when she could sneak them in, and shut herself in her "apartment" every night at 6;30 P.M. You could literally set your watch to it! I feel as if I have really upset a lovely community of fish with the new Tang. He is a beautiful fish, and I researched the compatibility levels very carefully before adding him. My Goby's behavior is really throwing me, and I would welcome any and all suggestions you could provide. <Mmm, patience at this point...> Getting the Tang out of the tank would require breaking the whole thing down - basically a nightmare. Your help is very much appreciated. On another note- I chose the Two Spot Bristletooth Tang because they are, for the most part, hardy, don't get too terribly big, great algae eaters, and just a great reef fish. I was assured by many trusted sources (including much web research) he should be fine for the size of my tank, but I would like your opinion on this as well. Thank you, Laura Garmizo <Thank you for providing so much information so well... If it were me, I would do nothing outside what you have been doing... At least for another week. I suspect the new social dynamic will set in by then... with all becoming "used to" each other. Bob Fenner>

Re: Orange Spotted Diamond Goby afraid of new Two Spot   12/5/08 Bristletooth Tang Hi Bob, <Hello Laura> Thank you so very much for the prompt reply - and the reassurance. <Glad to render it> Will do. This Diamond Watchman Goby was quite a character before the Tang came in. I hope her "chutzpa" will get the better of her soon! Thank you again, Laura Garmizo <I have high confidence that s/he will... What you relate so well is often seen... in captivity, a new animal being added, resulting in a period of readjustment in extant population behavior. Particularly amongst/between organisms utilizing similar space, habitat, food resources... I do think you will have no real problem here in the longer haul. Cheers, BobF>

Re: Orange Spotted Diamond Goby afraid of new Two Spot Bristletooth Tang, the latter, sys.    12/10/08 Dear WWM Crew, <Hello again Laura!> Bob F. has been unbelievably helpful in responding to my attached email concerning my tank. I am reattaching it because I do have one more question (that I am almost afraid to ask) so you can see all tank water parameters/history/occupants. Here is the question... When I bought my last and final fish for the tank 10 days ago, the Two Spot Bristletooth Tang, I had done quite a bit of research prior to the purchase. I researched compatibility, appropriate tank size (most resources said 75 gallon minimum), diet, and water quality needed to keep this fish happy and healthy. I honestly feel I made the purchase with the health and welfare of this fish in mind, along with my desire to enjoy it. However, I am so confused about the tank size issue for a Tang that I am second guessing myself. After reading further, simply going by the number of gallons in the tank was misleading. Many resources also stipulated a minimum of 4 feet in length was required to house a Tang. <Indeed, the bigger the better for these wide-ranging fishes... they often tussle with animals that utilize the same sorts of environment> My tank is an 85 gallon reef. It is loaded with live rock, hiding places, live sand, and houses 8 additional small to medium size fish (at adult size). However, my tank is NOT 4 feet long. It is 3 feet long, 18 inches wide, and it IS 85 gallons. I have observed the Tang and she seems to utilize the height, length, and width of the tank. <Well-stated> She is eating beautifully and just a lovely specimen to my eyes. Aside from her adjustment to 8 established residents (and theirs to her), I have not seen any real issues other than what I have previously written about, and there have been no outbreaks of disease at this point. I do not want to stress any of these fish out, I want to give them a healthy environment to try to ensure they live as long as they are capable of in captivity. Just how important is the extra 12" in length to this fish? <Mmm, overall volume, habitat is more important...> I purposely got a Ctenochaetus due to the smaller potential size of the fish as compared with other tangs. From research I have done, it should reach 5-6 inches in captivity. I really need your expertise on this. In fact, your opinion is the last and final one that will resolve this dilemma for me! Can this fish be kept successfully in this size tank? <Yes> As a final note (especially to Bob F.) my Diamond Watchman Goby was out most of the day. She is eating, and although her guard is up to the new Tang, I see gradual daily improvement in their relationship. Thank you Bob! <Ah, most welcome> Very best, Laura Garmizo <Bob Fenner>

Worried about my new Goby-Valenciennea puellaris Hi Bob! I must say your knowledge through books and web sites have helped fuel my knowledge regarding the marine hobby. But since I'm sure you hear that all the time, I'll cut right to the point. <Craig here today, I'm lucky to fuel myself to the bathroom!> Yesterday (11-18) had a good pal of mine donate his Orange Spotted Sleeper Goby to me (Valenciennea puellaris) out of the kindness of his heart. It is a very fat specimen and he had raised it from a little 3 incher to about a good 4 1/2 to 5 inches that I have him at now. I received him perfectly healthy straight from my friends tank and just gave him the routine fresh water dip and skipped initial quarantine because I knew it's been a healthy specimen for over 7 months and didn't find it necessary since my water parameters are good and all my other livestock are just fine. Here's a rough estimate of what I have set-up as well. 90 gal Fish only w/ 105 lbs of LR. and about a 4" thick fine live sand-bed. Here's the problem. After I acclimatized him, dipped him, and introduced him, all was well for about 15 minutes. I then went to go check on something else for about 10 minutes and I couldn't find him anywhere. I know these guys are fantastic jumpers (he did jump clear out of my friends tank a good while back) and thus, the top of my tank and such have been adjusted accordingly. Plus I feverishly looked around my tank just in case he did escape and no sign of him, so obviously he must have buried himself when I was gone. (the lights were off all this time as well).  When I came back I couldn't find any trace of a place where he buried himself. (As I am assuming he just buried himself totally out of sight) He has plenty of rock to hide under/in and a nice thick sandbed. I haven't seen him since those 1st 15 minutes of introduction (its almost been 24 hours) and am getting a little worried. Is this kind of shyness normal upon introduction? <Not to worry, he's hiding.  24 hours is not at all exceptional.> I think he's hiding towards the back of the tank and tried putting some frozen krill and brine shrimp in the sand bed last night to see if he would come out to eat. The krill was gone this morning but my juve harlequin Tuskfish probably ate that. So what should I do? Is waiting all I can do? I'm just a tad worried as I said, and will just try to spot feed brine shrimp, bloodworms, and krill as to where I think he is near. <Just feed your fish as you normally do. He will come out.> Any idea how long it will take for him to come out? Thanks a lot for your time!! You are the Uber-marine fish guru! Sincerely, Pat <That's Bob. I'm the Uber-food guru, something different altogether! Wait it out, your Goby will come out when he feels safe. It could be a few days even.  Just be patient..... Good luck!  Craig>

Re: Worried about my new Goby-Valenciennea puellaris Thanks a lot Craig! Its day 2 and still no sign of him, even though I do think I found his hiding place. You have helped calm my worries. When would be a good time for me to start worrying if I don't see him for a while? Thanks again!  Pat <Well you know Pat, it's never a good time to worry! I have had Blennies hide for a week then suddenly come out and rule the roost and I've had them never appear again (small ones). More of the first and only one of the last. Don't worry, he's in there!  Don't worry, his life is in his hands. He's not going to kill himself! Craig>

Goby M.I.A., Family Valenciennea 10/11/05 Hello, <Hi Chris!> I've had a pair of diamond gobies for about a year in our 125-gallon reef tank. We'll one of the pair will come up missing over the past month or so for a day or so, then will show up.  <Fairly normal of Valenciennea (sand-sifting and sleeper) gobies.>  We'll it's because the other one keeps burying him/her in their burrow she's been missing now  <Have you ever observed any aggression between the pair. Quite common for the gobies to fight over burrows.>  for about 72 hours and I moved some of the sand where he had covered up a clam that's right next to the burrow entrance he went back and put the sand back.  <Yes this is one of the facts of life with a goby in the tank, I have a pair that will bury anything given the chance.>  Is the other one okay or should I try and move the 4 inches of sand that he piled on the top of the hole, I don't see any other entrances to the burrow however these are very large rocks about 15 - 20 pounds that make up where they have made their burrow? <If the goby is indeed in the burrow he/she can get out. I would be patient for now and give it a little bit more time. Occasionally these fish can get over zealous in their tunneling behaviors, and have rocks/sand cave in on them.> Thanks, Chris <Just be patient it may emerge, Adam J.> 

Question on Orange spotted goby   1/22/06 Hi everybody!. I recently bought a pair (or i believe they are a pair) of Orange spotted gobies, and after i put them in my tank, right away one dug a hole under a piece of live rock and they both moved in. Now every once and awhile they do this weird dance where they swim around each other in a circle and one will lock its mouth on the others face and then act like nothing happened and go about there business. Now i think they are a pair because they NEVER leave each other. When one goes out the other goes with it. if one decides to go munch on gravel the other does as well its funny. But anyhow does anybody know what this might be? any help would be great. THANKS! Roger. <A social species... may not be reproductive in nature, but are "pairing" here. Bob Fenner>

Yellowhead sleeper gobies  7/7/07 Dear Crew, In your experience have you ever heard of this situation: I have a mated pair of yellowhead sleeper gobies who lived harmoniously for over a year. They had their own burrow under a rock where they stayed together. Then, for some unknown reason, one has turned on the other. <Mmm, yes> The aggressor chases the other away if too close. The weaker one is suffering; eating, but getting thinner. I'm going to try to catch the aggressor if I can and separate them for a while. I was wondering if anyone had ever heard of pairs of gobies turning on each other. Thanks, Jeff <Perhaps some sort of behavior related to the system being, or rather being perceived as too small... Maybe two animals of the same sex... Bob Fenner, who would separate them>

Goby Dust'¦The 'Engineering' Nightmare? -- 03/06/08 Crew, <<Ben>> Thank you in advance. <<Happy to assist>> I recently added a Diamond Goby to my 240. I made sure he was eating at the LFS for several days before getting him and he continues to eat well at home. <<Excellent>> After finally adding him to the display after QT he is now "going to town" on my sand. <<Indeed'¦and likely 'crop-dusting' your rock/corals>> I have a grain size mixture that includes oolitic sand. He is doing such a good job that I have a good amount of particulate matter in the water column now. <<No doubt'¦the fish are quite the 'stirrers'>> Will this be detrimental to other livestock in anyway, gills etc.? <<It may cause some irritation to those organisms that can't slough it of easily (e.g. -- plating Acroporids)'¦but for the most part it should cause no harm>> I understand that the photosynthetic animals will not receive quite as much light until this thing works itself out, but what about fish? <<The fish will be fine'¦ But don't expect this to 'work out.' The goby will always find another place to dig'¦or at the least, gobble up mouths-full of sand and sprinkle it around the tank (crop-dusting)>> I'm hoping this is purely aesthetic for the time being and won't hurt anything. Last time I went snorkeling the water wasn't exactly crystal clear, so I hope the fish will be okay. I guess I'm just used to my water being extremely clear with UV, carbon etc. <<Indeed, is/will be more bother to you than most anything else in the tank. I have a 6' Barred Goby (Amblygobius phalaena) in my 375g reef display that keeps quite a bit of the fine substrate/detritus in suspension. If I had it to do over I would forgo the goby'¦but not because of any 'harm' it has done to the system/livestock>> Thank you, Ben <<Quite welcome. EricR>>

Orange Spotted Diamond Goby afraid of new Two Spot Bristletooth   12/5/08 Tang Dear Wet Web Media, <Laura> I have an 85 gallon reef tank with a 2.5" live sand bed and plenty of live rock with the following parameters: KH 9 Calcium 450 Magnesium 1350 Ammonia 0 Nitrite 0 Nitrate 0 Phosphates 0 Temperature 77-78.5 Tank has a very efficient protein skimmer and a refugium with Chaetomorpha growing in it. Water changes are done monthly. I supplement with trace elements, iron, strontium, calcium, and potassium iodide regularly. My tank is 9 months old Inhabitants are: 1 Multicolor Pygmy Angel 1 Golden Rhomboidalis Wrasse 1 Fiji Yellow Sailfin Blenny 2 Black and White Ocellaris Clowns 1 Midas Blenny 1 Royal Gramma 1 Diamond Watchman Goby 2 Cleaner Shrimp 3 Fire Shrimp 2 Emerald Crabs Cleaner crew of Blue Hermit Crabs and Cerith Snails obtained from GARF. Many SPS and LPS corals and one Crocea clam I did have a Citron Clown Goby that recently passed away, due primarily (my best assumption) to malnutrition. Her stomach was concave most of her life (I had her about 6 months) and she would never eat well enough for me to feel comfortable. <Very... too common> With the exception of my Sailfin Blenny (loves Julian Sprung's Reef Veggies!), my tank thrives of Spectrum Thera-A pellets, Cyclopeeze, Phytoplankton, and the Sea Veggies daily. Now for my dilemma...My last and final fish was added approximately 6 days ago - a "teenage" Two Spot Bristletooth Tang. It is by far the largest fish in the tank (that is why I added it last) at about 4 inches. She has settled in quite well, eating the Spectrum Thera-A pellets and Sea Veggies voraciously. My Multicolor Pygmy Angel has definitely had some stress issues with her, I say this because she has been swimming in kind of a loop at one end of the tank, something she was not doing before the Tang came in. But, she seems to be settling down as each day passes and I don't see a real issue here. My Wrasse hid behind a rock the first day the Tang came in, and since has been out and about and acting completely normal. The problem (surprise!) is with the Diamond Watchman Goby. <This is surprising to me as well> She is very frightened of the tang, and will not venture out from under her rock covered with mushrooms. If she does come out, the tang zooms down to see it, and with a cloud of sand, the goby is back under the rock. I don't know if there is true aggression on the part of the Tang - I have seen her zoom at the Goby a few times when the Goby gets enough nerve up to try to come out. I have been very worried and have been spot feeding her the Spectrum Pellets (she loves these) with a turkey baster near her home twice a day. This just makes the Tang hang around there more, increasing the problem! I am not sure what to do. The Goby was incredibly active and entertaining before the Tang came in, and sifted sand the entire day, even ate Sea Veggies from our veggie clip when she could sneak them in, and shut herself in her "apartment" every night at 6;30 P.M. You could literally set your watch to it! I feel as if I have really upset a lovely community of fish with the new Tang. He is a beautiful fish, and I researched the compatibility levels very carefully before adding him. My Goby's behavior is really throwing me, and I would welcome any and all suggestions you could provide. <Mmm, patience at this point...> Getting the Tang out of the tank would require breaking the whole thing down - basically a nightmare. Your help is very much appreciated. On another note- I chose the Two Spot Bristletooth Tang because they are, for the most part, hardy, don't get too terribly big, great algae eaters, and just a great reef fish. I was assured by many trusted sources (including much web research) he should be fine for the size of my tank, but I would like your opinion on this as well. Thank you, Laura Garmizo <Thank you for providing so much information so well... If it were me, I would do nothing outside what you have been doing... At least for another week. I suspect the new social dynamic will set in by then... with all becoming "used to" each other. Bob Fenner>

Re: Orange Spotted Diamond Goby afraid of new Two Spot   12/5/08 Bristletooth Tang Hi Bob, <Hello Laura> Thank you so very much for the prompt reply - and the reassurance. <Glad to render it> Will do. This Diamond Watchman Goby was quite a character before the Tang came in. I hope her "chutzpa" will get the better of her soon! Thank you again, Laura Garmizo <I have high confidence that s/he will... What you relate so well is often seen... in captivity, a new animal being added, resulting in a period of readjustment in extant population behavior. Particularly amongst/between organisms utilizing similar space, habitat, food resources... I do think you will have no real problem here in the longer haul. Cheers, BobF>