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Mushroom killing bacteria?
8/21/17
NEED GUIDANCE PLEASE... Read through this and decide... the
clues are here 6/3.5/13
Re: Dino's, now Cnid. dis., Alk...?
6/15/09 Nitrates... Nah. Allelopathy likely
2/20/09 Hi, I would like to know what is happening to
my tank. Recently my Torch coral grew a new head, and I was very happy.
But after awhile, the small head of torch just slowly stopped opening.
I also noticed brown stuff oozing out from it, and it stinks to high
heaven. <Oooh, very bad> I figured the head was dead so I fragged
it off. The next day, my Anchor coral starting dropping its tentacles.
I also notice brown jelly stuff inside it's mass of tentacles. The
condition just got worse so I had to throw it away. Today, while wiping
the aquarium glass, I notice my Hammer coral dropping off one of its
tentacles. I was trying to be positive and hope that this is not the
work of brown jelly spreading trough my Euphyllias. I took out both of
my hammer and washed them in some iodine solution. There was no sign of
decay or rot, and no more tentacles were dropping off except for that
one. Today, I also notice one of my mushroom coral "melting"
away. What is happening....please help? <Obviously, something amiss
here... chemical, biological, physical?> So many coral problems in a
span of a few days is surely a cause for concern right? <Oh yes!>
I looked up on the internet and I think it has something to do with
high nitrate content? <Mmm, doubtful that this is the a priori cause
here... More like an after effect> I have been pumping my fish with
food to get their immune system up, and I am afraid this has caused a
spike in nitrates. I tested for PO4 today and it registered 0.5ppm!! I
don't even want to know what is the result of my nitrate test...
<? Why?> So, I would like to know if the nitrates are causing
this? <Again... I am dubious... However... I would be doing a
massive water change, adding chemical filtrants, spiffing up your
skimmer, increasing RedOx if you have the means to measure and do
so....> I do water change every weekends, about 10%. What are the
signs of high nitrates and phosphates? <?... posted> I don't
see much nuisance algae growing around everywhere, and my water is
crystal clear. Except for the occasional brown algae that grows on my
glass. Usually a simple wipe with my magnetic cleaner should clear it
up. Other than that, my fishes are still feeding fine, and my corals,
(star polyps, torch, elegance, fox) just to name a few, are still
opening up nicely. <... Oh... I see the likely culprit/s here... the
Clavulariid, Catalaphyllia...> Or is this simply a case of brown
jelly spreading trough my corals. I will try buying some Ulva or Chaeto
this weekend to help in nutrient export. I fear for my Hammer coral. So
far my Torch corals are doing really well, I guess it is because of the
good flow they are receiving, to help wash away all the gunk. Please
advice my situation? Thank you so much. <Umm, read re... Let's
see... starting here: http://wetwebmedia.com/cnidcompppt.htm and the
rest of this series linked above... then the Compatibility FAQs files
for the "Polyps", "Elegance"... and others
experiences re... And we'll be chatting. Bob Fenner> What Could Be Wrong? (Mysterious Coral Death)
11/23/08 Hi Eric, <<Hello Michael>> Hope you are
well, down in South Carolina. <<Its a bit chilly at the moment
(40s), but otherwise fine>> Christmas is around the corner. Are
you ready for it? <<Nope [grin]>> Well this time it is not
a fish problem. They seem to be doing fine, except for two Banggai
Cardinal, who don't seem to love one another, so I guess I have to
remove one of them. <<Very common with this species>> But
this time it is more of a "coral problem" so to speak. Well
at least, I think so. I have just lost a leather coral (Cladiella sp.)
And I am trying to figure out why. I don't have that many corals in
my tank. I bought most of them without knowing much about them.
<<Not too late to learn>> But the latest coral I added to
the tank was almost a year ago, before I knew anything about
WetWebMedia (phew). Since then I have come to understand that the
mixture I have could cause trouble. <<Ah>> So there is
"plenty of room between them. I have Galaxea, Bubble coral, Open
brain, Lobophyllia, Euphyllia Paradivisa (which have grown BIG) Kenya
Tree, an Acropora, Candy Cane coral (which is also expanding much).
<<An aggressive and noxious mix indeed but very common among the
majority of hobbyists>> But until recently everything was fine.
Some time ago the leather Coral seemed to start to shrink and then it
started to dissolve. <<Likely a reaction to allelopathy>>
The latest test results showed the following: Nitrite 0, Nitrate, 0-1,
pH 8.3 Ca, 410 Mg 1390, Phosphate 0, and Ammonium 0. I have also
started to get a little bit of algae. I do a 3 gallon water change
every week <<You might need to increase this>> (RO water)
and top of with pH adjusted RO water. I thought the light could be the
problem. I changed my HQI bulb in May, but for some reason it stopped
working in July. They did not have a brand new of the one I use (250 W
14000 Kelvin) but they had one in one of their lamps that they
didn't use anymore, which I was told was almost new. I went into
the store today, to talk with the owner; he told me that the bulb was
from February/March, so when I bought it in July it wasn't exactly
new when I bought it. Could this be the culprit? <<I'm
doubtful? Your problem is probably a chemical issue>> The store
manager told me it could be a lack of trace elements (I do not add
anything except Calcium, and occasionally magnesium, and on a rare
occasion iodine). <<Your weekly water changes should take care of
any trace element issues this too is not the/a problem>> I use
Tropic Marin salt for water changes. <<An excellent salt
mix>> I do have some bottles of "Trace Hard" and
"Trace Soft" from Salifert, but I don't use them.
<<And probably don't need to>> I have only used them a
few times, but after I read Bob's book I have refrained from them.
The manager loaned me a new bulb, to try and see if that was the
problem. In a way that will be the easy solution, but the bulb costs
$100. But what are your thoughts Eric? Please let me know. <<Well
Michael, based on your info here all I can suggest at this point is
that you add/increase your chemical filtration. Some carbon and or
Poly-Filter, with a bit larger weekly water change, should help
somewhat with the chemical war-fare being waged in your system>>
Thanks, Take care my friend, Michael Fick <<Always welcome mate.
Eric Russell>>
yellow polyps... toxic sys., incompatible mix of Cnid.s 3/6/07 Hey, I had a question about yellow polyps sea mat infections. I have had a 12 gallon reef for about 6 months now and one of the first pieces of coral I bought was a beautiful piece of yellow polyps, and I have slowly been adding a frag here and there. <Dangerous in such small volumes> The yellow polyps has slowly decline of there size and numbers. Now there are only a few polyps left and everything else in my tank is doing great. tanks specs. calcium- 430 ph- 9.2 <Way too high> water temp.77 - 79 nitrites- none ammonia- .3 <Toxic> nitrates. - 20- 25 <Too high> The polyps are in strong current flow and have nothing crawl on them but a cleaner shrimp. They are about 12 inches away from a 36 watt power compact 50-50 actinic and daylight. The other things in the tank are, a piece of LPS fairly close to it. Some green sea mats , xenia, button polyps, anemone and a clam. There are no Nudibranchs. I have noticed a long red polyp/worm like thing growing near them. thank you for the time Jake Damiano <You have an incompatible mix of cnidarians in a toxic setting... Please see WWM re all the mentioned factors above and each species "Compatibility", "Systems". Bob Fenner> Chemical Warfare?...More Like Health/Water Quality Issues 6/27/06 Hello. <Hello Jon> I have a quick question. I was wondering if using a PolyFilter would reduce the noxious compounds my corals and anemones are releasing to the point where they would survive together. Currently I have a Condy anemone, rock flower anemone, colt coral, frogspawn, Fungia plate, and several less aggressive soft corals (xenias, mushrooms, zoos) in a 55 gallon, none of them are touching each other. Right now my Condy is usually shriveled up and my rock flower anemone is slightly shriveled. The frogspawn is out most of the way, but sometimes looks as if it's slightly shriveled too. If the PolyFilter is a ridiculous idea with no chance of working, which of these is the main problem and should be removed? I'm thinking maybe both anemones but wanted to check with you first. <Jon, sounds more like health/water quality issues more than anything else. The PolyFilter will help much in this regard. Is your lighting sufficient for keeping these types of inverts?> Thanks <You're welcome. James (Salty Dog)> Jon Panicky Coral Care/Poor Acclimation Causing Problems - 03/27/2006 Hello and thank you for taking a moment to answer my question. <Gladly.> I have had my 46gal bowfront saltwater tank running for about 4 years now. I recently added a 2x96w PC fixture to increase my light. I already had (a 1x96wPC, total 3x96W PCs, more than 6WPG). <Just tossed 'em up there and turned 'em on huh?> I have a protein skimmer that's definitely doing its job, the stuff lately has been DARK green (ugh!). Two power heads provide the flow, with one being a PowerSweep (goes back and forth on its own). It has had pretty much the same livestock for the last couple of years, which are a Gold Stripe Maroon Clown, Blue Velvet Damsel, Royal Gramma, and a couple of Green Striped Mushrooms. I added, a week ago today, a Colt coral, Pagoda coral, Toadstool Mushroom Leather Coral, Bulb Tip Anemone, <Not good to mix with your corals.> and a Blue Linckia Star. Well the Star has already died, and I acclimated it using the drip method and was very careful to not let it touch the air. The Anemone is doing WONDERFUL! It's found its spot, not moved since. I have fed it 3 times since I got it, and the Clown took to it in like 3 minutes...instantly! The corals are what I'm worried about. <Ok.> The Toadstool hasn't opened at all, the Colt and Pagoda are doing alright, but I was told they are in shock because of all the light? <Too much all at once. No acclimation to new light/environment?> I didn't think there was such a thing as too much light, so I've been running my single strip PC for about 2-3 hours a day. <This is making your situation worse. These animals need time to adjust. This needs to be addressed.> However I tried moving them to the bottom of the tank with the single strip totally off, and the Colt did a LOT better, but that's not where I want it at all, so they're all back to their original spots. <Ok...this is a very bad yet common mistake. Corals are very sensitive to environmental changes. You've only had these a week and already asked them to be fine with constant fluctuations in lighting/flow. I can assure you they are not.> The Toadstool still didn't open up even when at the bottom of the tank with the others. <Perhaps more insulted than the rest.> So, while they aren't melting, or COMPLETELY shriveled up, they aren't looking like they should either. <You're currently heading toward COMPLETELY shriveled up.> What should I do? <Read: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/acclimcoralslight.htm http://www.wetwebmedia.com/growingcorals.htm and other related links from this page http://www.wetwebmedia.com/marine/inverts/index.htm . Stop moving them and regulate your light cycle.> Oh and my water tests all come out fine except the nitrates were about 10ppm. I tried a water change for that without much avail. Any advise would be greatly appreciated! <You have my thoughts. - Josh> Weak Corals and Anemones - 01/12/2006 Hi - <Hello>
Thanks so much for all of your help in the past, evidenced by the below
thread of 2 years ago, among others. <Welcome> I have a 100
gallon well-established reef tank with HQI and actinic lighting, and an
excellent protein skimmer. The system uses a sump and has
excellent circulation throughout with extra pumps in the display
tank. RO water is used for replenishment, and the system
gets continuous water changes with my liter-meter III, about 5 gallons
per day. I am going crazy trying to diagnose problems with some of my
soft and LPS corals, and my rose and long-tentacle sea
anemones. For example, some of my mushrooms have died back,
my frogspawns don't open up like they used to, and my anemones are
pale and shrunken compared to before. In an effort to stop
the bleeding, I have, in the following order: 1. Stopped using
phosphate-removal filter media and use Salifert phosphate remover
instead (this is because I heard that some of the phosphate-removal
filter media can be a problem <Yes, can> and I noticed these
problems with my corals while I happened to be using a Kent product
(little white round balls that go in filter media). System
phosphate levels are currently very low as tested with a low-phosphate
kit. 2. Stopped using
Kalkwasser and am using B-Ionic instead (this is because I felt that I
was inconsistent in dosing the Kalkwasser). The calcium and
KH levels were a little low, around 360 and 8. <A better
alternative, agreed>
3. Stopped using SD <Likely
an acronym for San Diego... natural seawater available at the base of
the U.C. Scripps pier...> sea water and am mixing salt from
commercial seawater mixes like Instant Ocean. I am trying
out several and haven't figured out which one I like best
yet. <You will, in time>
4. Started feeding more
regularly with phytoplankton, zooplankton, and "silver-side"
fish for the anemones.
5. Lowered salinity to 1.025
(was around 1.026 as a recommendation from the protein skimmer
manufacturer; sometimes drifted as high as 1.027) None of this has
worked in the slightest. I have ordered a calcium
reactor and will install it as soon as it arrives. I have
other suspicions: 1. I use a
Rubber-Maid Brute trash barrel that I mix and store seawater
in. The water goes from that into a 125-gallon pond that is
the reservoir that Meter-Liter III draws from. That water is
filtered with a micron filter and aerated before use. I am
worried because the Brute trash barrel has a horrible smell, noticed
mostly when I lift the lid and especially when empty or hardly filled
with water. Have you ever noticed this and do you think that
could be contaminating my seawater? <Have not had
problems with this fine line of product... I would however, take yours
"down", scrub it thoroughly with rock salt... lightly bleach,
rinse it with freshwater, let air dry...>
2. I use bleach to clean my
micron filters and my main overflow filter bag (in the
sump). I normally rinse them, then soak them for at least 24
hours in about 5/1 water/bleach, then rinse them off and leave them in
the sun for a day before use. Is there anything wrong with
this practice? <No. I do encourage having/using multiple sets of
cartridges... to allow time to air-dry... rid of chlorine... and this
really extends their effective use and life-times> Could the bleach
be leaching into the system and contaminating the seawater?
<Possibly, but doubtful of much effect here... would kill outright
if present in much concentration>
3. I have a typical aragonite
sand-bed of about 1? to 3 inches, and have not been mixing it up or
siphoning it. I just reviewed your invertebrate book and
realized that I should be siphoning it. But do you think
this could be so serious as to cause my corals to weaken? <Could,
yes... I would replace a good part of this every six months at this
junction... a quarter or so... and the same with your live rock...>
Is there anything that you can think of that rings a bell from what you
read here? Thanks again for your time and help. Carl Beels,
M.S. <Certainly welcome. It is a distinct possibility that the
overall "dynamic" in/of your system is losing to
"aging"... leading to more/chronic allelopathy amongst your
Cnidarian life... The addition/use of the calcium reactor, renewing of
substrates will go a very long way to off-setting this aging/trend.
Cheers, Bob Fenner> Does This Match my Carpet? Allelopathy in Action (Not Inaction) 11/12/2005 Hi My name is Gal Judah and I am writing to you about a number of issues/pattern that I have noticed in my aquarium. I have a 150 gallon reef aquarium with well developed life rock, sufficient lighting and a well sustained tank environment. My first issue is that I have 3 Ocellaris Clownfish which I have had for about 4-5 months now, all were introduced at one time and get along well, my issue with them is that I have 2 Carpet anemones and 1 rosebud anemone (the carpet anemones were present before clowns were introduced) and for some reason the clowns choose not to go near them. <Happens> Secondly and more importantly I have noticed an alarming pattern to grow of corals in my tank and then a sudden crash. it seems that as soon as I get corals to grow and polyps to spread all of a sudden they just decide to die. <<Don't think they make this decision lightly, it may be for a very good cause. MH>> I do frequent water test and almost always find that my water conditions stay constant. I was wondering if you knew why this occurs. <Mmm, you might find you have more success with more frequent, larger water changes, using activated carbon in your filter flow path... and making sure there is space between the corals and anemones> Lastly I have had recently growing polyp in my tank. I again see the same pattern with the grow of polyp in my aquarium. They grow and spread rapidly and then in a matter of days deteriorate. So my question is what can I do to increase grow of polyps in my tank and what can I do to sustain that grow? <Mmm, a bunch... and all is posted on WWM...> Your help would be greatly appreciated and thank you for your time Gal Judah <Please start reading here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/marine/inverts/index.htm. Especially the area on Anemone, Carpet Anemone Compatibility. Cheers, Bob Fenner> Polyps shutting down 9/8/05 I'm having trouble with some polyp colonies in my 125 gallon reef system! The system was set up about 1 year ago and was doing great until about 1 1/2 months ago. Around this time, most of the polyp colonies closed in on themselves. The only colonies that seem to be thriving are the yellow polyps which continue to open wide and ,in fact, are spreading! <When one coral is thriving while others are suffering, it is a good indication that the thriving coral is actually winning a chemical battle against the others. Water changes and carbon are often helpful, but sometimes removal of the offender is required.> I have many Ricordea in the tank as well as some leather coral which also seem to be doing well. I do have a hammer coral that has drawn in somewhat . I do not know the scientific names of the polyps. I bought them as frags and have been growing them out. I regularly test for calcium, ph, magnesium, Alk, salinity, and iodine. All test are in the accepted ranges. Do you have any ideas why only the polyps are suffering? thanks C.B. Hough <Possibilities other than chemical warfare include nipping by fish or the presence of a predator (look for small snails with a "checkerboard" pattern.) Best Regards. AdamC.> Corals dying I was referred here from a member of MichiganReefers.com, told that you may be able to offer some advice or help. Please feel free to email me back any helpful suggestions, I am about to the point of giving up any hope.....thank you. <Mmm...> OK, about a month and 1/2 ago, I started to notice the SPS in my tank going downhill. Polyps no longer extending to max, some die-off of tips, and general unhappiness. Everything else was fine. Within 2 weeks, ALL SPS except my orange cap and green milli were showing serious distress, as well as some complete bleaching and die-off. Throw a sudden burst of hair-algae growth into this messy mix, and I am ready to beat my head against a wall!! I tested the water....more on that later.... Since then, (the last 3-4 weeks) I have lost all my SPS, except for the cap and milli, and they are now showing signs of stress. Even my mushrooms are starting to die! I had 8-10 green hairys, and dozens of beautiful blues and reds, as well as green stripes by the dozens all over the tank. I now have NO green hairys left, the blues are 1/4 their usual size, as are the stripes and reds. Even my green Rics are shrinking in size. My hammer and frogspawn are barely opening now, and mouths are usually gaped when they do open up, and the torch is almost non-existent. I also lost 3 feather dusters, a large amount of my cleanup crew is MIA, and my yellow tang croaked over the weekend. RIP..... Now here is the funny part though: crocea clam, xenia, green Yumas, green flower anemone, Kenya tree and yellow elegans leather, along with 2 different types of pipe organ, and potato-chip coral are just fine. Full extension of polyps, growth even with the xenia. And Cerith snails galore every night, all else is dying....WHY???? <Mmm, conditions favor the live group, they are successfully biologically poisoning the others...> Water param.s are as follows as of 4-10-05: 55g tank w/20g refugium, LR and DSB, sand in fuge also. Temp: 79-80 F SG: 1.024-1.025 pH: 8.1-8.2 PO: <.50 Ammonia: 0 Nitrite: 0 Nitrate: 10-20 Calcium: 420-440 ppm KH: 8.3-8.5 ALK: 2.97-2.99 I add every other day: 1 15ml ea. dose B-Ionic 2 part Alk/calcium I add weekly: 1 5ml dose iodine supplement Water changes have been 12-15 gal every week for 4 weeks now, IO salt used, 1.025 SG@ 80F. Please help me here.....I am at a total loss as to what may be causing this meltdown to occur. I changed nothing in my normal tank routine other than stepping up my water changes in the last 6 months, and everything was the picture of health until 1 1/2 months ago. I do not want to lose anything else, and I want my pretty tank back!! OK, an update to the dilemma that has become my reef tank. (or should I say, what USED to be my reef tank....I will politely refer to it as my coral graveyard!) As I stated in the last post, all SPS are gone. Totally. Even the hardy little Pocillopora is a goner. All the mushrooms are shriveled to the point of almost not being there. Reds, blues, green stripes and blue stripes, even the green Rics are starting to shrivel. The hammers and frogspawn have "fused" their tentacles into one mass at each head, and a few heads have vanished.\ altogether. The button polyps are still closed as are the last red zoos and the yellow colony polyps. The Yumas have not been looking very happy lately either. These will be the last straw, as they were our first corals, and I do not want to lose them. (nor does Kristie!) What I'd like to know is, how can the remaining corals be so happy and healthy and seemingly be unaffected throughout this WHOLE ordeal while the others all die? Mushrooms are supposed to be one of the easiest and hardiest of all corals to keep, yet they die while my clam and yellow elegans leather are thriving! So here is what is in the tank right now: Dead/dying: Hammers, frogspawn, button polyps, mushrooms, Rics, feather dusters, and ALL SPS. (invert MIA: emeralds, shrimp, porcelain crab), yellow tang. Alive and well: Crocea clam, xenia, clove polyps, pipe organs (2 types) potato chip, encrusting Gorgo, fish, tiger-tail Cuke, anthelia, and flower anemone. I have done 2 20g, 2 30g, and now 2 40g+ water changes which seem to have NO effect, I haven't changed the lighting schedule, feeding, or anything else other than charcoal now for the last month. All water parameters are unchanged, all within safe limits. What the heck is going on in my once beautiful tank?!?!?!?!? I am about to the end of my rope, breaking EVERYTHING down, and starting all over again. Please help me to NOT have to do this. <What you are observing, experiencing is an extreme but common case of "mixed garden reefing"... the mis-blending of incompatible marine life, particularly cnidarians... Know that the various stinging-celled life groups have a few mechanisms to "prevent crowding", resource partition... stinging, overshading, producing (sometimes in great quantity) chemicals that are toxic to other species (allelopathy)... Anemones in particular are not a good idea to mix with other Cnidarian groups... You are encouraged to read re these animals care, compatibility (much archived on WWM re this)... but the long and short of your situation is that you can hope to achieve some stasis with what you have left... by careful water changing, use of chemical filtrants, pruning... Or, get a larger (perhaps separate) tank for SPS, et al. less able to compete animals... Please do read... on WWM, elsewhere... the situation, results of allelopathic relations are all about us (common amongst plants for instance)... just more pronounced and dear in our controlled aquatic worlds. I wish you well. Bob Fenner> Sudden Coral and Xenia Die-Off 1/19/04 My husband and I have a 35 gallon reef tank with a 20 gallon refugium. The take contains several Xenia and cuttings we've taken as well mushrooms, polyps, and a few small LPS/SPS (Brain, Montipora). My husband decided to install a small powerhead to the tank to help increase water flow as he thought some dead spots were forming after adding a few new corals. <ah good> The very next day, all of the corals were looking terrible! <coincidental I assure you... something else is amiss. Perhaps something else done or disturbed at the same time he was doing maint./install of the new PH> We've lost every last piece of xenia and aren't sure we won't lose more corals before it's over. We've been so happy that we've had success in raising Xenia and are just heartbroken. My husband said he forgot to rinse the pump prior to installing and noticed some white powder come off of it in the water. We've done a water change and tested the water. All values are in perfect range (Nitrate, Nitrite, Ammonia, Ca, Alkalinity, PH, Phosphates). <without seeing your numbers... I cannot confirm or agree that you water is fine. I'd suggest you look hard at pH and ALK. pH should be over 8.4 by day (no lower than 8.3 at night for Xenia)... and ALK closer to 12 dKH> We contacted our fish store and they say it's impossible it's the pump that killed the corals as the power would have just been talc. Nothing else was changed. My husband washed his hands before putting them in the tank and the new coral he added at the same time seemed to suffer just as much as the rest of them. Any thoughts on what could have caused this or how to correct it? Our biggest concern is whether or not we'll ever be able to raise Xenia in the tank again. Thanks! <do a large water change or two (50-75%) in the next week, add fresh chemical filters like Chemi-pure and/or PolyFilters... and do try Xeniids again. Beautiful corals. Anthony> Polyp trouble Hi Bob, recently within the last two weeks I have noticed some trouble with some of my polyps mainly my green button polyps, some Zoanthids and some Palythoa. I also had a yellow finger leather die. The polyps while some are open and looking healthy some are closed and appear to be shedding or dissolving. I also had a pink and green cucumber die apparently of starvation. Are all these things related? I have heard that the cucumbers can poison the tank and the leather can also put off toxins. I have a good skimmer and the water tested OK except for a little high reading on nitrate ~ 40ppm. I have some yellow button polyps that are thriving, and a toadstool that is also doing well. Rick >> Thank you for writing... And these loss-events may well be related... If not from some original "cause", than consequent bio-poisoning as you mention... At any length, we don't have test kits (as yet, for soft coral terpenoids and short chain fatty acids) that might be implicated. However, I would do the usual: a large water change (maybe half), change out your carbon... and hold off on any livestock installation for a month or more. The nitrate, at 40ppm is not a difficulty for the mix of organisms you have now, but it may be indicative (as a view of other nutrient levels) of other substances present... not removed by filtration, biological action in your system. Bob Fenner |
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