Dwarf Gourami with sore on side 10/16/08
Hi Guys,
Congrats on having such a great site. I have learnt a lot from reading the Q&A's but still can't find what I'm after.
I have got 3 Dwarf Gouramis which I have had for about 3 months. About 4 weeks ago I noticed one of them had 1 or 2 scales missing from the side of him. The colour of the flesh didn't change. Everything looked fine.
<It's an ulcer, and will need to be treated with a suitable antibacterial or antibiotic to prevent secondary infections. With luck, the fish will heal just fine. I say "with luck" because Colisa lalia is a very sensitive species, partly because of inbreeding and partly because commercially bred fish are routinely exposed to viral infections for which there is no cure. I do not recommend aquarists keep this species.>
About 7 days ago I got home from work to find it had turned into a patch that looked like raw flesh that was white in colour but looked red from inflammation or infection. It was also raised from the body a few mm's. I put the Gourami into my 40l tank and started treating it with Furan-2. After 2 days the redness had gone away. I continued treating as
the sore is still an open. Today I have noticed 2 holes in the white flesh area that are red. The sore is still raised from the surface and looks worse in real life, than in the photos. The fish is still eating normally and looks fine, he is sitting down by the heater a fair bit but I think it is because he is the shy one of the lot and its a good hiding spot. What else can I try?
<Very, very difficult to say. The problem with ulcers is that they are not only infected wounds that need healing, but also gateways through which infections can travel into the body of the fish. Small fish like yours are particularly at risk because even a relatively small ulcer will "dig" quite a distance through the body, well into the major blood vessels, muscles and nerves.>
My tank details are:
190l tank, 26deg, I top up the salt after every few water changes, Ammonia 0, Nitrites 0, Nitrates 5, PH 7.2, lots of real plants, big bits of bogwood, Fluval 405 filter, tank has been running for about 5 months
<In theory all sounds fine, though adding the salt shouldn't be necessary when the fish are healthy, and long term we really have no idea what harm constant exposure to salt does to freshwater fish. At least some react very badly, as is the case with Malawi cichlids, so broadly speaking salt should only be used therapeutically, not as a routine additive.>
Fish are:
Guppies x 10 (about 14 babies as well), rummy nose x 9, Danios x 3, Bristlenose x 1, Corys x 2, Neons x 7, Gouramis x 3, pretty tetras x 2, bleeding heart x 2, harlequins x 6
<Should be fine with Colisa lalia.>
The Gourami has been moved to a 40l tank, internal filter, 27 deg, salt added, ph 7.2, amm 0, nitrites 0, nitrates 5
Thanks for your help,
Tracey
<All you can really do is carry on treating for ulcers and Finrot, and hoping for the best. To be honest, this species is so weak I can be especially confident of a positive result, but who knows? Cheers, Neale.>

Blue Gourami black spots and swollen 5/26/08 Hi. I have recently started up a 10 gallon tank. <Do understand that this tank is too small for Blue Gouramis, and indeed for virtually all tropical fish. There's no reason to buy a 10 gallon tank unless you're an expert fishkeeper with a view to a breeding project or some other specific usage. 20 gallon tanks are the minimum sized ones that work reliably for casual aquarists and standard community fish species. The price difference between 10 and 20 gallon tanks is negligible, especially when set against how much longer your fish will live in the one compared to the other.> 2 weeks ago, I bought a powder blue dwarf Gourami and a red dwarf Gourami. <Both Colisa lalia varieties. Extremely prone to disease; I simply don't recommend them to fishkeepers. Scarily high prevalence of viral disease; inbreeding and casual use of antibiotics means their lifespan once purchased is not high. A lot of retailers I know would sooner not stock them at all. Best avoided, in favour of hardy species like Colisa labiosus and Colisa fasciata.> All seemed fine, but the red Gourami hangs out at the bottom of the tank and sometimes pushes the blue one around. <The tank is too small. These fish are territorial, and if they're both males, as is highly likely if they're brightly coloured (females are greyish green) the dominant one will eventually kill the weaker one.> Two days ago, I purchased two emerald green Corys that are very active, racing around. <Too many fish in a 10 gallon tank! Corydoras aeneus need to be kept in groups of six or more (they're schooling fish) and that means a 20 gallon tank, at least. I'm not saying this stuff to be awkward: if you try to cram fish into too-small a tank, you're going to have problems with water quality, and that means disease. Your fish aren't going to be happy either, and if you don't care about their happiness, then why bother keeping fish at all?> I noticed a few days ago that the blue Gourami seems maybe swollen just under the gills. Today, I noticed he has some black dots on his face, like he's dirty. I have done a few partial water changes this past week. Also, last night, I noticed when he was eliminating it was not releasing and grew to a few inches long before it even dropped, or came off. <Difficult to know precisely what this is, but instinctively I'd be guessing Dwarf Gourami Iridovirus. This is very very common among Colisa lalia, and currently impossible to treat. It's 100% fatal, and highly contagious. This is why I tell people not to waste their money on this species. A photo would help ID the disease more precisely.> The red Gourami is a big eater, eating most of the food, including the catfish pellets. The water temperature is between 78 and 80 degrees. I think the red Gourami may like the bottom of the tank because I have the thickest planting there (all artificial). I bought some tall "grass" decor, but it is sparse. I have read it's recommended that I buy some floating plants. <Yes, floating plants are appreciated by Gouramis.> Thank you in advance for your time. These fish were purchased for my kids that just lost a Betta and I would hate to lose my younger son's Gourami. <I fear you're going to lose the fish anyway.> Thanks again. <You're welcome.> Beth <Cheers, Neale.>

Re: Blue Gourami black spots and swollen 5/26/08 Thank you for your response. I am obviously a beginner and went into the store not knowing much at all. <Fair enough.> I went by the suggestion of the clerk in regard to size of tank and the fish to put in them. <Do always remember the guys in the store are there to make sales. In a perfect world, they'd also hand out expert advice and would stop you from making unwise purchases. But we live in an imperfect world, and not every store clerk is an expert fishkeeper. Many are essentially salespeople with little to no personal experience of keeping fish.> He informed me that the Dwarf Gouramis are hearty, obviously misinformed. <Do see here, for example: http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/pfk/pages/show_article.php?article_id=428 Something like 22% of the Singaporean fish are infected with the Iridovirus, so right out the bag over one-fifth are doomed. Couple this with the fact the virus is extremely contagious, and you have a real problem. It goes without saying that intensive farming methods to keep the price down and serious inbreeding to create the all-red and all-blue varieties has done nothing to improve the hardiness of the species.> I also went by his suggestion with the catfish that he told me to come back for after 7 days when purchasing the Dwarf Gouramis. <In a bigger tank, not a bad idea. But in a 10 gallon tank, overkill.> I may not know much, but I even mentioned that the two Gouramis and two Catfish were going to create too many inches per gallon, but he insisted this was fine and that two catfish were good enough for them socially. <Ah, I see. So in this instance you should have trusted your instinct. I suspect that you have the makings of an expert fishkeeper even if you're only just starting out! Keep reading, keep being critical, and keep raising your game.> Thank you for your help. I will go back to the store with this knowledge. <Happy to help, Neale.>

Re: Blue Gourami black spots and swollen  5/27/2008 Neale, Thank you so much answering all of my questions. I have attached photos for you. If you believe this is what it is, I will be bringing both of the Gouramis back tomorrow since I have had them such a short time. ("<Difficult to know precisely what this is, but instinctively I'd be guessing Dwarf Gourami Iridovirus. This is very very common among Colisa lalia, and currently impossible to treat. It's 100% fatal, and highly contagious. This is why I tell people not to waste their money on this species. A photo would help ID the disease more precisely.>") <Photos aren't quite sharp enough to make a good diagnosis. When looking for Dwarf Gourami Disease, the order of symptoms is typically this: shyness; loss of appetite; stringy faeces; appearance of discoloured (usually pale) patches on the body; open bloody sores on the body; oedema; death. Obviously not every sick Gourami has Dwarf Gourami Disease, so it's as well to consider the options too, including things like Finrot and Constipation that can cause at least some of these symptoms. Do see here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/fwdistrbshtart.htm Dark patches can simply be signs of physical damage, specifically to the nerves that control the colour cells (effectively similar to "stuck" pixels on an LCD screen. So as I say, don't destroy the fish out of hand; review the possible alternatives and treat appropriately. In any case keeping two specimens in the one tank isn't a good idea, so you'll need to return or rehome one of them.> Thank you, again. I hope you can see well enough with these pictures. They don't depict the signs as well as I wish: <Indeed.> Again, I appreciate your time with this. The information invaluable! <Cheers, Neale.>

Re: Blue Gourami black spots and swollen 5/27/2008 Do you have advice if I wanted two more fish, after bringing the Gouramis back that might be smaller and okay in the tank? <There's an art to stocking 10 gallon tanks. Essentially look for small (2.5 cm/1") fish that don't move about much and aren't territorial. This approach will maximise your chances of success. In the "Gourami" field, you might consider Sparkling Gouramis (Trichopsis pumila), tiny little fish that work well in groups provided there are lots of plants at the surface of the tank for them to hide among. They're wonderfully coloured and make strange little sounds from time to time. If you live in a hard water area, you might also consider a "shell dweller" from Lake Tanganyika such as Lamprologus ocellatus. These fish rarely stray far from their shells (ideally empty apple snail shells or "escargot" shells from a boutique food store) and aren't aggressive to mid- or upper-level fish. Livebearers offer some interesting options, like the darling Least Killifish (Heterandria formosa), one of the smallest vertebrates known and native to the Southern United States. Gobies offer lots of potential, but you do need to review issues like feeding and water chemistry because some species will not last long if not kept correctly. Bumblebee Gobies for example do best in hard water with a little salt added (though this isn't essential) and will only eat ((wet) frozen bloodworms and small live foods like brine shrimp. As for catfish, the smallest Callichthyidae are perhaps the ideal, including things like Aspidoras pauciradiatus and Corydoras habrosus. Small Whiptails like Hemiloricaria parva also work nicely and add a quirky look to the system. I'm also keeping Cherry Shrimps and snails such as Nerites and snail-eating snails (Clea helena) in my mini tanks, and they're thriving, the shrimps in particular breeding like rabbits. So there's lots of potential with small tanks, provided you research your options and make good choices. Cheers, Neale.>

Re: Blue Gourami black spots and swollen 5/27/2008 Follow Up: Thank you for all of your help. I returned the fish today and they, indeed, said the Powder Blue Dwarf Gourami did not look well at all. I followed your advice and decided that the fish were all going to be too big to be happy in the tank and brought the other Gourami and 2 Cory's back. <Very good.> I will say that the pet stores do seem more into turn around than into the happiness of the fish as the Emerald Green Cory tank said that a 10 gallon tank is suitable and some fish that grow to be 3 inches were labeled for 5 gallon tanks! <Unfortunately not an uncommon way to keep fish.> I purchased 4 guppies, figuring that they will grow no more than 1.5-2 inches and should remain happy. I would like to add 1 or 2 catfish after the Guppies stabilize. I saw online that there are small species that only grow to be 1.5 to 2 inches. Would these fish all be okay in the tank as it would equal about 7.5 to 10 inches of fish in a 10 gallon tank? <In theory, Guppies can work in a 10 gallon tank. But in practise, the males often become aggressive towards one another. They also pester the females. It's not much fun to watch your male Guppies chasing one another and harassing the females. So while a single male and two or more females might be viable, I don't personally recommend Guppies in very small tanks. That said, many people keep Endler's Guppies in small tanks, and their smaller size perhaps makes them a better bet. I've also found Humpbacked Limia (Limia nigrofasciata) and Wrestling Halfbeaks (Dermogenys spp.) work well in 10 gallon tanks.> Thank you, again. <Cheers, Neale.>

Re: Blue Gourami black spots and swollen 5/27/2008 Dear Neale, I'm sorry for all of the emails. I just want to get this right. <Understandable!> As it is (background), under advice from a first pet store, we bought a tank, let it run for a week and then went to a second store (the one we ultimately bought from) and found out it was the wrong kind of tank, needed a heater and all the rest and had to start over again. Now, the problems we've discussed. <Hence our usual advice to buy/borrow an aquarium book *before* you spend any money.> The more I research, the more I'm concerned that the Emerald Green Corys are not right for the tank. I love them and how active they are. However, when we bring back the Gouramis, they may not only grow too big for the 10 gallon tank, but be too big for the fish we will get as replacements. <Green Corydoras (Corydoras aeneus) is an excellent catfish; it is peaceful, completely harmless towards even livebearer fry, and long-lived when kept properly. I keep a related species, Corydoras paleatus in my 180 litre aquarium and watching them plough through sand, spewing it out of their gills, is a real treat. Both these catfish spawn readily, and if they're happy you will eventually find their eggs on the glass. Raising the babies isn't difficult, but that's a story for another day. But these catfish are potentially too large for a 10 gallon system, at least once mature. Female Corydoras aeneus will get to at least 5 cm/2" and potentially 7.5 cm/3". They are not just long but deep-bodied as well. You also need at least 4, and ideally 6, specimens to see them at their best. So I agree with your analysis.> I know you are not big on 10 gallon tanks anyhow, but unfortunately it's what works best for our space. <Often the case.> I have found that there are smaller catfish. <There are several Dwarf Corydoras species, all reasonably hardy and easy to keep. Corydoras hastatus swims in the midwater when kept in reasonable numbers and not scared. Watching the flutter about like silvery bugs is lots of fun.> I was thinking that Platys might be a good choice for our tank? <A bit on the large size. Some varieties of Platy stay quite small, but in good health most varieties can top 5 cm/2". Personally I'd not recommend them, though some people do keep them in 10 gallon systems.> For my boys, we're looking for one fish each that will be characteristic enough to tell them apart, or maybe two each- space dependent. <The Catfish/Livebearer combo will work well. Catfish look strange and usually scoot about the bottom in a very purposeful way; livebearers are friendly and quickly become tame, rising to the top at feeding time. I have an 10 gallon system with Aspidoras pauciradiatus (a miniature, black-and-white Corydoras) and juvenile Limia nigrofasciata. The tank is filled with live plants, snails and Cherry Shrimps. The result is an aquarium that's very rewarding and fun to watch.> They really like the idea of catfish as well, and I have found online that there are catfish that stay smaller than the Emerald Green Corys. <Provided you avoid "Otos" (Otocinclus spp.) many of the smaller catfish are quite hardy. There are also some lovely small loaches, most notably Kuhli Loaches. Kuhli Loaches are gregarious and rather shy, but they work well in small tanks.> I am returning to the store to make an exchange for the Gouramis as the Powder Blue became sick right away. Would you suggest, while we are somewhat starting over, that we bring the catfish back as well as they may be too big to share the aquarium with fish much smaller than them? <I would, but it's your call. You always have the choice of hanging on to them for the next year or two, because Corydoras don't grow particularly fast. By Christmas time say, you might decide to upgrade the tank to a 20 gallon one. The "footprint" between a 10- and a 20-gallon tank isn't that great, and you can re-use the heater and filter.> I hate to do so, but like I said, I want to do this right this time before we get even more attached. Any advice on the new fish as to what would be best is greatly appreciated. Thank you! <Do read these articles for ideas on choosing livestock: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/fwlivestk.htm  http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/fwlvstksel.htm  http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/fwlivestocking.htm  Take the kids down to the library/bookstore and have look through the encyclopaedias of freshwater fish. There are literally hundreds of species on the market, and even if they aren't in stock in your local store, they can order them or you can go mail order. Cheers, Neale.>