Turt Stkg SueG 3

Related Articles: Red Eared Slider Care by Darrel Barton, So your turtle has the Flu? Recognising and treating respiratory infections in pet turtles by Neale Monks, Freshwater Livestock,

Turtle Stocking & Compatibility
Part 3

To: Part 2, Part 1

by Sue Garrett

Are RES and Box Turtles compatible? 6-29-07

(Original heading: Mixing turtles 6-29-07)

Hello, Crew
<Hello Pat -- Darrel here today>
I have owned Box turtles for at least 6 years now. I have added 3 Red Eared Sliders to the large outdoor pen. So far so good, they all get along fine. Should I be expecting some change?
<Not really. I have a large pen that's half pond & half land and I keep my water turtles, box turtles and Russian Tortoise together without problems. Two things to keep in mind (1) Their dietary issues are very different and (2) even though the SPECIES are compatible, that doesn't always mean that individuals are -- many years ago I have a big, belligerent male box turtle that tried to attack and kill all the other MALE turtles (Box and water turtles alike) so keep in mind that these are, after all, wild animals and strange things happen>
I also have a 20-gallon tank which holds 1 Red Eared Slider and 1 Box. They are both a couple months old. I put them together this morning. Was this a good choice
<Not really a good choice, no. At this point the Slider is primarily aquatic and needs just a basking area, while the baby box is terrestrial and needs room to roam. The footprint of a 20 gallon tank would be the minimum size of a small box turtle's roaming area.>
and what do I feed them? The Red Eared Slider eats feeder fish and the Box eats banana right now. Should I change their diet?
<Yes. Please do. The Red Eared Slider (actually, ALL of your sliders big and small) needs a good basic food such as Koi Pellets or Repto-Min (by Tetra) with an occasional treat of night crawler (earth worms) -- All three available at your local pet shop. Feeder fish are not nearly as much of their natural diet as you think and aren't really all that good for them. The BOX Turtle, on the other hand, needs a VERY mixed diet. Bananas aren't a good source of nutrition and they can very easily fixate on only one food (like Strawberries or Bananas) to the exclusion of all else and then you have a real problem. Strawberries, Bananas, melon, collards, carrots, green peas should be offered either in mixture or in rotation and then .. as a REAL TREAT ... some of the same night crawlers you feed the Sliders.>

Box Turtle with Greek Tortoise 8/27/05
We currently have a Greek tortoise. Someone dropped off a box turtle in our yard, and my sons want to keep it. Are we able to keep them both in the same habitat?
< I would not recommend it. The box turtle requires a higher humidity, slightly lower temps and an area to get wet. The tortoise comes from dry arid areas while the box turtle comes from a moist humid forested type of habitat. The increase in humidity could cause respiratory problems for the tortoise over a long time.-Chuck>

Turtle seems lonely - should I get a companion?

(Original heading: Box Turtle Care & Feeding 11/21/04

<Hi, Pufferpunk here>
This may be normal behavior, or I may have been misinformed on care. I have a box turtle-about 1.5 years old. She is in a 10 gallon aquarium w/sand or aquarium gravel on the bottom, about 2 inches of water and about 10 1 inch-ish rocks scattered about for basking. There is also a fake plant and a decorative rock in there with her. My problem is that she seems almost sad. She always hides under the plant, doesn't eat very well-refuses to eat the pellets they gave me at the stores and is partial to iceberg lettuce and any fruit. She has done really well today, but I'm worried she may be lonely. (A friend found the baby nest in a river behind his house, gave some away when old enough and returned the rest where they were found). My brother got her, or I would have asked for 2 lol. I was wondering a few things 1) Am I caring for her properly 2) Would it be a good idea to get her a "buddy" 3) If so, what kind of turtles get along well with box turtles?
Any advice would be wonderful, and I apologize if I re-asked a question, I'm not a good skimmer.
<1st thing, I must ask you to please use proper capitalization in your letters. These go to our FAQs & I have to fix them myself, before sending it. That takes away from time I could be answering other questions. If you do really have a box turtle (high arched shell, brown in color, locally caught ones usually have 3 back toes), then it is a land animal, not water. It will need a container large enough to soak in for water, but mostly a dry area to hang out in. I use cypress mulch about 3" thick, so it can bury itself, if they wish. It will need a 20g long tank, so you can have one cool end (with the water bowl) & a warm end (with a reflector lamp above). You need to change the water as soon as it gets dirty, as this will also be it's drinking water. It will also like a cave to hide in (a large shoebox with one side cut out will do). There is prepared box turtle foods made, but it can get expensive. When wild box turtles have been dissected, they found mostly earthworms in their stomach, so that should be #1 on their list. Usually I mix up some frozen mixed veggies, & diced fruit, mushrooms & canned dog food. If you haunt your local grocery, you can sometimes see them taking old, soft fruit off the shelves. Ask them if you can have it. Iceberg lettuce has no nutritional value, as it is mostly water. The greener the better. You can make up larger amounts & put into small 1/2 cup portions & freeze, to feed later. Also, find a good reptile vitamin to "salt" it's food with. If you want more turtles, you will need 20g/turtle. I'd stick with only box turtles as companions, but they really don't care if they live alone.
Here are some good sites on turtles:

http://www.turtletimes.com/ http://www.turtletimes.com/market/index_store.htm
Good luck & enjoy your turtle--it will live for around 30 years if you take good care of it! ~PP (My name is Jeni too!)>
Thanks again, Jenni

WOOD TURTLES

Glyptemys insculpta

Â· See Key Points at top of this Topic Page for general information on turtle stocking & compatibility.

Should I add another turtle for companionship?

Social turtles?

Hi I was wondering if you were the one that I talk about my turtle? if I have the right person I was wondering I have an ornate wooden turtle and I was wondering if they to have like other turtles in the cage with them?
< They really don't care one way or another.-Chuck>

TERRESTRIAL TURTLES

TORTOISE

Testudinidae

Â· See Key Points at top of this Topic Page for general information on turtle stocking & compatibility.

MIXING MULTIPLE TURTLE SPECIES

Â· See Key Points at top of this Topic Page for general information on turtle stocking & compatibility.

RES aggression toward other turtles; neutering to prevent aggression? 10/27/09

(Original heading: RES Companions and other Questions 10/27/09)

Hello there! First I would like to say that I am a little bit of a fan of yours.
<Cool!>
While sometimes you guys can be complete jerks, personally, I find it funny.
<Hmm... not sure why you think we're jerks. Blunt, sometimes, and I'll admit to being a little unforgiving of willful ignorance, but I don't actually set out to insult people. If people do get insulted, I'm sorry about that, and if they tell me, I will usually apologise.>
I think it's great the way you speak your minds.
<Indeed we do.>
I know that many people ask this question, and I have seen your responses to this question, but I still am unsure if I should take the plunge because of the mixed responses on the internet and even my own forum. Here goes...
<Fire away.>
I have a 1 year old red eared slider (RES) he is healthy, and extremely spoiled in his 210 gal aquarium. About 3 months after owning him I got him a plecostomus, My turtle Bowser seemed to really enjoy this companionship (not kidding).
<Unusual, but happens.>
While he ate the other fish that were in the aquarium, he did not eat the Pleco.
<Do bear in mind live feeder fish are not a healthy diet for Sliders. Even as occasional "treats" you run the risk of introducing parasites, and used regularly, the fat and thiaminase inside feeder fish (minnows and goldfish particularly) causes serious health problems. An appropriate diet is based primarily on plant foods, Darrel recommends Koi Carp pellets, but I prefer to go with cheap aquarium plants (bunches of pondweed for example) and things like curly lettuce, augmented with small amounts of seafood and white fish. Whichever route you go, using a vitamin supplement designed for reptiles is a good idea.>
In fact they would sleep together, eat together, hide out together. The Pleco would even clean his shell - they were buddies. Well then, due to some stupid errors in water quality which have been corrected, the Pleco died. After he died bowser didn't eat him (pretty big deal if you ask me), but then bowser got depressed (again, not kidding). Bowser would swim to the glass whenever we came around, and he would just act strange. Like he was lonely (still eats okay and doesn't have any illnesses). I currently am a member of the All turtles forum http://www.allturtles.com/msgboard/ and every time someone asks about getting another turtle they say it is a terrible idea.
<Indeed, it usually is.>
The thing is that it is always the same (5) people saying this. I really just need an expert's advice. Can I get a painted turtle to be a companion for my RES?
<Do not bank on it. Sliders, particularly males, are aggressive towards other turtles. Furthermore, while animals often tolerate other animals already in their environment, if you add something new, that newcomer isn't recognised, and territory-holding animals are much more likely to view that newcomer as a threat. It's down to something called "dear enemy" theory, where territory holders learn to tolerate rivals in adjacent territories because there's little advantage to fighting with them, while incoming rivals are seen as much more threatening and there are tangible advantages to seeing them off.>
I have seen that you guys have said yes to other people asking the same question.
<Wouldn't have been me! While I have kept two different terrapins (as we Brits call them) in one tank, a Red-ear and a Yellow-ear, and the two largely got along. But only the Red-ear was the male, and moreover, the two were reared together from babies. So while it is certainly do-able, it's not something to undertake lightly, and you really need a Plan B just in case things go wrong.>
So I feel like I've been getting mixed messages from my research. Also If I do get one, should I wait until my turtle is older and matures sexually? Or should I do it now so that they can have time to bond before the sexual maturity happens?
<Reptiles don't form anything comparable to a pair bond, with the exception of crocodilians, which do pair up in some species and guard the nest together. In most cases, the males simply mate with whoever they can, as often as they can. Conversely, keeping females alone can cause problems with egg-binding if you don't understand the problem and take the necessary steps to work around it. So it's complicated. For most people, most of the time, a single male is the easiest choice. In a big tank, one male and two females can work well. Needless to say, introducing the animals to their new home as juveniles is the best, so they can gradually build up the pecking order.>
I've heard that having males together can be a bad thing, but also male and females together can be bad. While I know it is hard to actually choose male or female at this young age is one or the other better?
<Two males in a standard domestic aquarium can be bad. Males bite, and if there isn't space for the males to separate, including space above the waterline, you can have problems.>
I have heard that you can get your reptile neutered or spayed... Do you know much about this?
<Nothing.>
do they offer spaying or neutering for turtles? is spaying or neutering your turtle humane?
<I'm sure done by a licensed vet it's human. But is it practical or even useful? That's a whole other topic. I'd consult with a trained exotic animal vet before anything else.>
Also, would that potentially help keep the turtles from fighting?
<Likely, yes.>
I think I covered the bases for all the questions I should have about that.
<Great.>
Since I'm asking questions I also have 2 more, do you think letting turtles come out of their habitat to roam around the house (in areas where they will not get hurt or crushed or anything of that nature) is a good idea?
<Mine did from time to time. Confused our Siamese cats no end. Of course, they did tend to defecate on the carpet, so putting some newspaper down is wise. Even having an outdoor area is a possibility. Because they're adapted to wet habitats, they can dehydrate quite quickly, so unless they have access to water, it's a good idea to limit these out-and-about perambulations to an hour or so. This is especially true if you live in a dry climate (not something I had to worry about here in England...).>
I do try to take my RES out frequently so that he can get any extra exercise that he might not be getting, and also to dry out his shell in case he has been a lazy basker. In the summer I take him to the yard for
supervised visits so he can be in touch with his inner turtle. But winter is way too cold for that here.
Also, I use ReptiSun bulbs to light the aquarium, how do I know when these need to be replaced?
<Every year. Supposedly, the UV-B component drops off after that time, and since you can't see UV-B, the difference isn't noticeable. Even allowing for the tendency of manufacturers to encourage replacement as often as they can get away with, I'd still change them within 18 months.>
Thanks so much for all your help in advance!
Regards to you knowledgeable and funny people,
Natasha
<And my regards to you, too. Cheers, Neale.>

Re: RES Companions and other Questions 10/31/09
Neale,
<Natasha,>
Thank you so much for your advise, you went above and beyond what I even asked.
<Happy to help.>
I especially like the information that you gave about the different types of plants to put in the aquarium. I will be using some of those for sure, Bowser seems to really enjoy the fake ones I have in their now and the Plecostomus would like the plants too (new Plecostomus). I know goldfish and feeder fish are bad, originally I had some of these in the aquarium but after finding they were bad I was going to take them out. Coincidentally my turtle went on a killing spree and they are all dead now, so that was convenient.
<Indeed.>
Right now I have some Green Barbs and Bleeding Hearts in there. But they are really not for food as my turtle would rather school with them than eat them (I didn't know about the parasites fish can carry though).
<Can be a very real problem, especially with wild-caught fish and fish breed cheaply as feeders.>
I buy any fish I have from a very reputable specialty fish store (not a pet store) so I doubt that they would have parasites, but that is good to know.
<It's not necessarily the retailer. A species like Bleeding Heart Tetras that are primarily wild-caught fish will have been exposed to worms and other parasites in their native habitat. While these parasites may or may not parasitise turtles, there *are* turtles in the Amazon, and therefore the risk of a turtle-specific parasite is there. As you perhaps know, many parasites need to pass through more than one host to complete their life cycle, and those parasites that affect reptiles often pass through a prey animal, like a small fish, first.>
I usually feed my turtle Wardley's Turtle pellets Fortified with Calcium, and I have a cuttlebone in there that he likes to eat too. If I did do a vitamin supplement what kind would you personally recommend?
<If you're feeding a good quality food together with fresh greens, vitamin supplements shouldn't really be necessary. So you're using a supplement more as an insurance policy than anything else. So get whatever is cheap and available.>
Also Do you think I should ditch the turtle pellets?
<No; as I say, at the very least, they provide a good source of useful vitamins and minerals. The main thing to remember is that once they begin to turn stale, the vitamins will have broken down, so they're less valuable. I like to freeze most of the dried foods I buy, and only keep by the tank small tubs of the stuff, enough for a few weeks at a time. That's an economical approach if you like to buy turtle or fish food in bulk.
While freezing food doesn't keep the vitamins stable forever, it's better than keeping them warm and moist by a fish tank, and should keep the dried food good for six months.>
I know as my turtle gets older he will only want vegetables one day, and I am prepared for that.
<Good. It isn't that they only eat vegetables, but as they get bigger and heavier, turtles are less able to catch food, so they get most of their calories from things that can't run away, like plants and carrion. There's no reason at all to feed them just plant foods, but certainly ensuring that their diet is rich with green foods is a healthy approach.>
Based on the information you provided me I will make sure I have another aquarium that I could set up as a home for the other turtle IF I decided to get another turtle.
<Wise; or at least, be sure you can find another home for the second turtle, should it be necessary.>
That way if they didn't get along I could separate them. In my current aquarium, space is no problem, it's a very long and wide 210 gallon.
<That should be big enough for two turtles, indeed, I'd perhaps go for three or four, one male, two or three females. That way the male would be less likely to fight, and while he would certainly pursue the females, he couldn't harass any one of them all the time. Building more than one basking spot is also helpful.>
But I will make sure that the other aquarium is in place before I decide to bring home a new turtle. Maybe I'll just get a tortoise instead, I think my RES will be fine with the setup he has now.
<Ah, now tortoises really are fun. A close friend of mine has three of them, though in England they're only out and about in the garden for about 8 months, spending the rest of the year in hibernation. Kept properly, these animals live a very long time, and it's great fun to watch them chase each other across the lawn. They're like animated garden ornaments!>
He seems to be infatuated with the new plecostomus that is in there now, so there are no more loneliness issues.
<Good.>
On a more personal note, I was hoping that you would be the one to answer my questions Neale. So I am very pleased.
<Cool.>
Can I ask what happened to the turtles and terrapins you had before?
<When I left to go to university in Scotland, they were taken to a tropical animal zoo called Tropiquaria in Somerset, a few miles from where my grandparents lived. That was some 20 years ago, so I have no idea if they're still alive, but I stopped by the Tropiquaria a couple of months ago with my nieces, and spent some time talking with the director of the zoo about the various reptiles they keep and breed. So I'm sure they had good lives.>
Thank you for your advice again, and I believe you are correct, "blunt" is a better word than "jerk" in describing your approach to idiots.
<Well, that's sorted then.!>
Regards,
Natasha
<Cheers, Neale.>

Re: RES Companions and other Questions 11/1/09
Neale,
<Natasha,>
Thank you for the advice, I do plan on following all of your suggestions, and very much appreciate your taking the time to answer my questions. That is really cool that you took your turtles to the tropical animal zoo. I'll bet they really did have a great life.

I have one final question that I forgot to ask before... I went to the plant store to buy plants to put in the aquarium after your advice, but they didn't carry Pondweed.
<This is sold under multiple names: Elodea, Egeria, Canadian Pondweed, etc.>
Do you have any other suggestions on plants I can buy for my turtle?
<In terms of aquarium plants, Floating Indian Fern, Hornwort, Frogbit, Cabomba will all be taken. Plants sold for human consumption are often good as well. Curly lettuce and red lettuce are both good, together with small amounts of things like cooked carrots, cooked peas, and melon.>
Also, any plants that I should avoid?
<Among edible plants, things with strong flavours often have chemicals that can harm turtles. Spinach and brassicas (cabbages, etc.) are among the plants to be used sparingly.>
I like the idea of getting more female turtles, that's what I will do if I decide to get more turtles. I like tortoises too, especially the red-footed tortoises and the Sulcata tortoises, they are so interesting. I heard that you can basically set them up a habitat in your backyard and they will have their own little ecosystem back there.
<Pretty much. They're good at digging though, and vulnerable to predators including dogs, so a certain amount of planning is required. If you live somewhere with cool winters, you will need to overwinter them, either indoors in a heated vivarium or else let them hibernate. The latter needs to be planned carefully if it is to be done safely, requiring that the tortoises fatten up properly beforehand.>
I know a few people who have their tortoises set up this way. I didn't know about them chasing each other though, I would like to see that. Well I appreciate all of your advice so much Neale, I wish I would have had the courage to ask my questions earlier. I feel like I wasted a lot of time on indecisive answers.
<Ah, well.>
If we don't speak again, thank you for helping my family have a happier and healthy life! I learned a lot just from scanning the pages of this website that is for sure, but your answers helped the most.
<Kind of you to say so.>
Take Care!
Natasha
<And likewise, Natasha. Cheers, Neale.>

Mixing RES, Musk and Mud species together in one large aquarium? 5/18/08

Quick Question About Turtles and One Comment. 5/18/08

First off right now I have a 75 gallon tank set up with a Jebo canister filter for up to a 250 gallon aquarium as well as Jebo UV Sterilizer to keep the water nice and clean.
<Sounds great.>
I have 4 sliders, 2 musk, and 1 mud all are under 4 inches. When they get a bit bigger I will be moving them into a larger tank. Right now they all get along great although in the past few days I have noticed the 3 larger RES have begun to flutter their claws sometimes in a triangular formation all three at the same time - since they are not sexually mature yet - I wonder if they are just playing or trying to see who will be the dominant turtle of the aquarium - from reading a lot of your questions and answers on here I fear that may change - before going out and purchasing the huge stock tank that I was going to get them for all of them to grow into I was wondering if I should at some point think about separating them.
<Males do this "fluttering" thing with their front flippers. You can sex Red Ear Sliders by looking at their front flippers: males have dramatically longer claws. Males also have a longer/thicker tail.>
I don't want to yet since the sliders especially seem to be such buddies as well as the 2 musk turtles - the only one who seems to be a loner is the mud turtle he or she seems to hang out in a corner by a side of the tank where he can see his own reflection which makes me feel bad and almost makes me want to get him a companion.
<Juvenile reptiles may well coexist, and may indeed stick together on the basis of "safety in numbers". After all, juvenile turtles/terrapins are often easy prey for water birds and other predators. It's doubtful whether they form "friendships" as we know them, but there may well be an instinct that keeps them together. That said, captive turtles of all ages do fine on their own.>
I can tell for sure that one of my sliders is going to be a boy his tail in the past few months has gotten extremely long - the other two are still up for debate.
<OK.>
I don't want to bring any more slider hatchlings into the world so would it be the smart thing to do when they get to be mature to separate the males and females for good or only during mating season?
<No risk of unwanted babies. Reptile eggs are difficult to rear without an incubator, so if you don't want the babies, then simply collect and destroy the eggs. The females can become egg bound under certain circumstances, so it isn't all easy going, but that's a discussion for another day.>
I also had a comment about a question sent to you in 2005 about a turtle that wouldn't grow (see: Two Turtles One Problem 12/5/05).
<Indeed?>
I have a red ear slider that I got in July 07 at the same time as another turtle here is a picture of my 4 sliders basking - they are all around the same age - Squirt to the left will not grow is just over an inch.
<Sometimes happens in animals just as with people -- for whatever reason (diet, genetics) the animal fails to grow normally. In fact there's often a lot of variation in adult size among animals, particularly "lower" vertebrates that don't have a fixed adult size (as mammals and birds do) but grow continually through their life. Maximal growth is during the early stages of life, and if for some reason the animal doesn't eat enough during that phase, it may never "catch up" with its peer group even if it otherwise lives a long and happy life. Bullying is actually quite common when juvenile animals are kept together, with males (being more aggressive) often monopolizing food to the detriment of the females. This happens with fish a great deal, but can be observed with many other animals too. Anyway, assuming it is healthy, I wouldn't worry too much.>
I have had him to the vets and tested for parasites and everything else under the sun which cost a fortune. And nothing is wrong with him.
<Good!>
He is not being bullied in the tank - I feed in a separate feeding tank and he is fed first so he gets all the choice food and usually if they pyramid on the other basking site he will climb on top of the other guys and be the top of the pyramid.
<All sounds fine.>
In fact as I am writing you right now he just climbed up on the basking ramp and squeezed in next to the larger one. So I don't think he is not growing from bullying. I know at some point I will have to remove him from the tank for his own safety because I will be afraid they will crush him as they get bigger but right now he seems to be doing okay and they are not aggressive towards him at all.
<See how things go. In a large enough enclosure there may never be problems, but too keep an eye out for trouble. Making sure everyone has easy access to a basking spot will help, for example.>
My vet said that although she has never come across cases like this she assumes that it may happen in the wild and that some turtles like people just don't grow and that in the wild he would have just been eaten by now by a predator.
<Indeed.>
I just wish I could find him another little mini turtle to keep him company.
<Not required; reptiles generally are not gregarious and do fine kept on their own. Indeed, by forcing them to live together in small containers *because we think they need company* we're more likely stressing them.>
Jen
<Thanks for writing, and all very interesting. Cheers, Neale.>
Here is one of squirt alone you can see he is a nice looking little turtle - nice and healthy - trust me he goes to the vets.
<No photographs came through at this end!>

Compatibility of RES and multiple species of turtles 5/15/07

(Original heading: Comments & Questions, Turtle/RES comp. 5/15/07)

Good Morning Gentlemen & Ladies
And ... as always ... many thanks.
<As many welcomes>
First a comment about Red Eared Sliders. I've been raising them and breeding them for almost all my adult life and I can tell you that all types of sliders, cooters that you're liable to run into in the local pet store will live together famously if they have enough sun, enough food and enough clean water. Although I wouldn't normally put hatchlings in with adults, eggs that I missed collecting have hatched out and the babies spent as long as a month with the adults with no ill effects as long as the adults are happily fed. Heat 'em, Feed 'em & Clean em. As far as food goes -- forget the packaged turtle foods in the cans and remember two words: "Koi Pellets." From hatchlings that have to take several runs at even a small one to adults that can eat a dozen in one gulp ... they'll live, thrive, grow and reproduce on that one staple. Softshells & Mud/Musk turtles, too. Once in a while when I'm at a pet store I'll buy a container of night crawlers (worms) and toss some around and they seem to like the treat and it rarely affects their basic appetite. Once in a while they get finicky, but after a week or three they'll give in and eat again. Box turtles are another story -- I've seen them 'fixate' on something like strawberries and go as long as a YEAR refusing any food at all if they can't have their favorite.
<Thank you for this input... Please do consider joining us if you have time, interest... if for nothing else to help with such captive Chelonian questions> Darrel
<Thank you for writing, sharing. Bob Fenner>

RES compatibility with same/other turtle species 5/13/07

(Original heading: Regarding some turtle question, RES fdg., comp. 5/13/07)

Dear crew, I have several questions and I hope you can help me.
Recently I tried feeding my red ear slider with new food, dried Red Shrimps, or at least that's what the bottle said. Anyway, after I fed the turtle with it , it appears that it refuse to eat the usual turtle pellets. My turtle will only eat those pellets if I haven't fed them for some period. If I throw in some shrimps , they ignore the pellets, is it normal ?
< Your turtles are actually quite fond of the shrimp. It is in their best interest to feed them the pellets first. As they start to slow down you can add a couple of shrimp. An all shrimp diet is not good for your turtles overall health.>
Could I introduce a new turtle or different species to my turtle? Is there anyway I could do it safely , assuming their size varies greatly?
Thanks for ur time and reply
< I would recommend one turtle per container. RES's are very aggressive turtles and see other turtles as competition. Smaller weaker turtles would be hiding from the established turtle and not be getting enough food.-Chuck>

Mixing adult RES, NW Pond Turtle, Mud, Painted & 4 babies in indoor pond 4/1/07

Mixing Turtles 4/1/07

We currently have 4 adult turtles, 1 female RES, NW pond turtle, musk, and a painted in a 200 gal, tank and 4 young, not much bigger than hatchling size) in a 100 gal. tank. We are building a large indoor pond complete with waterfall and underwater shelving and rocks etc. Our question is this: can the we put all the turtles in this pond together? Will they be able to coexist, or will the larger adult turtles harm or eat the younglings? How does it work in the wild when there are new turtles born into the group? We are the ones who wrote you last year asking for advice on our painted pursuing the RES and nipping her. That behavior has continued even after turning off the heaters. We put a divider in the tank, but he still tries to get to her. Do you think this behavior will subside once they are relocated to the much larger pond and the RES can more easily get away?
<I don't like the idea of mixing adult turtles. The RES female will get up to 12 inches, the musk turtle maybe 5 inches, painted turtle up to 8 inches and I am not sure about the pond turtle. RES's are aggressive turtles and tend to bully the other turtles around. Hopefully with an indoor pond there will be enough room for them all to get along. I think placing the smaller hatchlings in with the adult turtles will be a big risk. When the adults get hungry and cannot find food they will go after the smaller turtles just like they would in the wild.-Chuck>

MIXING TURTLES WITH OTHER ANIMALS

Â· See Key Points at top of this Topic Page for general information on turtle stocking & compatibility.

Painted turtle and Algae eater compatibility 5/23/10
Hello,
<Hi, Brendan. Melinda here tonight.>
I am sure you get these kind of questions all the time and I do apologize but I have been searching for an answer and heard contradicting stories.
<Okay.>
I own a Painted turtle approx. 1 yr. old in a 30 gal. tank and I am wondering about the compatibility with an algae eater.
<Generally, it is thought best not to combine fish and turtles, for a number of reasons. The first reason that comes to mind, for me, is the difficulty of maintaining good water quality when you've got an animal such as a turtle in the tank. It would require a lot of upkeep to provide what fish require, which are Ammonia and Nitrite levels at zero, and Nitrate below 20. In addition, turtles are usually happy in room-temperature water, because they're able to get out and bask, and return to the water after they're nice and warm. The difference between the warm basking area
and cool water allow them to effective regulate their body temperatures.
However, when it comes to fish, often, a heater is required to keep water temperature elevated and/or steady. Therefore, often, the situation is such that someone is going to be uncomfortable!>
I understand that fish are a part of a turtles natural diet but I have also been told that turtles will usually not bother an algae eater.
<Well, turtles will eat fish, but obviously, that's not what's best for them, especially on a regular basis. It's also not much good for the poor fish, who is being constantly chased around a 30 gallon aquarium! Also, there are many fish which are considered "algae eaters." Some would grow as long as your 30 gallon tank, and some only reach an inch! Therefore, the term itself is such a broad one that I'm not sure which fish you're thinking of housing with the turtle. In addition, most of the fish which your local pet store might call "algae eaters" may not eat algae at all,
may only eat algae as juveniles, or may have additional nutritional requirements which must be fulfilled in order for them to be healthy.
There are many aspects to consider, but ultimately, I would leave your tank as it is, and enjoy your turtle.>
I would very much appreciate a professional opinion before spending money on an algae eating fish.
<If you are experiencing problems with algae, it is likely due to one or more of several factors: an overabundance of light, an overabundance of waste products, or overfeeding/ lack of maintenance. If you'd like to clean algae on glass, your local pet store will probably stock various scrapers and Mag-Float type tools that will help. If it's algae on large rocks/decor, feel free to wash them and place them back in the tank. Without knowing more about your situation, I can't give a lot of advice, other than to avoid adding any fish to the tank, and to read here on algae:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/fwsubwebindex/fwalgcontrol.htm and
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/ca/volume_6/volume_6_3/fwalgae.html, and to read
on turtles, and their incompatibility with fish:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/fwsubwebindex/turtcompfaqs.htm?h=fish.>
Thank you
<You're welcome. Please do write back if you have any questions after reading.>
Brendan
<--Melinda>

Re: Painted turtle and Algae eater compatibility5/26/2010
<Hi Brendan!>
Thank you so much for your prompt response I had been struggling to get a straight answer for quite some time.
<I'm glad you found it helpful.>
I'm happy to have found your website.
<I'm happy I could help!>
Brendan
<--Melinda>

Red Eared Slider Compatibility with faster fish 5/8/10

(Original heading: General RES questions 5/8/10)

Hi crew!
<Hiya - Darrel here tonight>
I've been reading through the various postings on your site and they are fantastically entertaining and informative, you have helped me on various things including today's departure of pecker after his fall :-(

I have some questions, it seems you're busy so a speedy reply isn't necessary.
<Never that BUSY Dale, I'm just a poor typist. I typo 80wpm>
I live in Japan (originally Essex, England)
<Japan was originally Essex???? In England??>
. where it seems Red Eared Sliders are widely kept for a short period and then thrown out, no one seems to really know how to care for them,
<OUCH!! All the sadder that they're among the easiest of all pets to provide and care for>
. but anyways, in the attached picture you can see my setup(60x34x30cm) which admittedly is horribly small for three turtles but I was very uninformed at the time of purchase.
<No, you weren't, not it's not and it looks pretty cool!>
Is this too small for these 2(midori and LB)? At a guess (as they are still a little too small to tell) they are either both females or one of each (they seem to get on fantastically BTW)
<While Sliders, Cooters & the like can be a bit snappy from time to time, they are also excellent tank mates and can get along wonderfully in large groups. You have plenty of room here & I'll get into a bit more detail below>
They also have a large balcony(recently turtle-proofed) with a water source and places to hide/plenty of shade/sun. also the basking area in the pictured tank is just under half the size of the tank itself(kind of decking with a ramp)
<It looks pretty nice, but here are my comments: (A) the water is far deeper than it needs to be. Nothing WRONG with deep water, but it's not necessary for their well-being. Whenever you have a choice with turtles go for a larger surface area (length & width) and don't worry about more than 5 or 6 inches of depth. (B) Make sure that the lighting provides for their need for heat AND for UV. (C) The tank decorations are nice looking, but take a look with a critical eye any place a turtle could work his way into, under or behind and then get stuck? (D) If it was me, I'd rework the ramp area to allow for more dry-land area (unless there's more than I can see here) because they don't have a lot of room to really haul out of the water and bask in the warmth of the basking lamp.>
If not already too small, how long before you thing ill need a new tank?
<They could easily be double in size before I'd think about a new tank You could even think of adding one or two more at this point. By the time you need to think of a bigger tank, the next step up is probably more like an indoor pond than a tank (we'll talk about that another time)>
I finally found success with the live plants after many being ripped to pieces within a day but would really love to have some kind of fish in there(without the trial and error massacre) to liven it up a bit. do you know of any small durable and fast tank mates for them?
<The problem with fish & turtles is this: When you put it feeders and WANT them to be eaten, the turtles don't catch them and the feeders grow and become pets you have to worry about (I have 2 goldfish that were once 'feeders' that are now 7 inches long and the dominant animals in a 2500 gallon Koi pond containing 24 inch Koi) -- or the opposite, when you put in two fish you really DO care about and the turtles .. for whom fish is NOT a major dietary component .. suddenly get lucky. In other words, Dale there is no solution to this problem>
<A decent sized Plecostomus (common name 'Pleco' or 'Plecostomus') would hold it's own against turtles of this size, but it's an algae eating, bottom dwelling more-or-less boring fish.>
I was thinking small goldfish but have read that if eaten they are quite bad for the turtles.
<The problem is that feeder goldfish are kept in horribly unsanitary conditions and tend to be loaded with parasites. Fancy goldfish are usually much 'cleaner' but their elaborate tails & fins do make attractive targets for the turtles. So no.>
Ah and I am feeding them every other day a mix of pellets and they are nibbling the plants a little every now and then is this enough?
<Sounds good. I feed mine almost exclusively Koi pellets>
Thanks again for all your help
<You're welcome>
Dale

Turtles & tropical fish 4/6/10
I have an Oscar & 4 red ear sliders & 1 mud turtle in a 55 gallon aquarium together. Is it ok to mix the turtles & tropical fish together?
<No. Your tank is massively overstocked and water quality likely dire.
Mixing turtles and fish together is almost always a terrible idea because the turtles produce so much waste that the fish quickly suffer from ammonia and nitrite poisoning. Plus, most turtles will nip at fish, making Finrot and fungal infections more likely. If you peruse any fish or reptile book in your local bookstore, you will quickly establish that not one serious author suggests mixing fish with reptiles.>
Also my Oscar is showing signs of Ick. Is it safe to treat my tank with the turtles in it?
<No.>
Can turtles get Ick?
<They can't be parasitised by Ick, but they can certainly carry the free-living stages from one body of water to another.>
I have an under gravel filter & a Biowheel filter.
Thanks for any help,
Katina
<You need two tanks, and the Oscar needs rather better filtration than an undergravel filter that will soon be short-circuited once the Oscar decides to start digging. As you hopefully realise an undergravel filter that doesn't have a uniform depth of gravel doesn't work because all the water flows through the shallowest bit of the gravel (water follows the line of least resistance). Cheers, Neale.>

Red eared slider compatibility with native green sunfish 4/4/10

(Original heading: Turtle/ fish compatibility 4/4/10)

I have a red eared slider in a 55 gallon aquarium and I was wondering if I could keep some native green sunfish with him.
<Mmm, you could... with some provisos>
My turtle is now has a 4in carapace length. I know that there is a risk that they could be eaten so I am planning to get some that are the same size as my turtle.
<You'll need to have good filtration, keep up with regular maintenance (weekly partial water changes), be careful re not over-feeding the turtle, but do feed the RES regularly so it won't harass the Centrarchid unduly.
Bob Fenner>
Re: turtle/ fish compatibility 4/4/10
Thanks. Also, how can I make sure the sunfish get their share of food or vice versa
<Sunfish are VERY tough. I'd be feeding a good pellet food as a staple. Perhaps Spectrum brand. B>

RES & Western Painted Turtle compatibility with fish 1/11/10

(Original heading: RES... tankmates, diet mostly 1/11/10)

Hello,
I just have a few questions about my turtles. First of all here is my setup: I have two red-eared sliders, one male and one female I believe, they are both about 4-5 inches now.
<Getting to be sexually mature... do watch the male, can be snappy towards other turtles.>
I also have a western painted that is about 3-4 inches that I believe to be a male and a Pleco cleaner fish.
<Do not keep fish with turtles. That's the first rule of turtle-keeping, and stated by every expert and turtle book out there. For a start, a Plec won't "clean" anything, so that aspect is a total delusion. Secondly, it's almost impossible for casual pet owners with regular budgets to provide the space and water filtration required for both fish and turtles in the same tank.>
They are all in a 75 gallon aquarium filled 2/3rd of the way with water and I have created a custom basking area that has some smooth gravel rocks and a 75 watt reptile lamp. I have a 305 Fluval canister filter that has proven
to be a god send. I feed them turtle pellets for the most part and have offered crickets as a treat from time to time. I have had them for about 4 years now and they seem to be healthy. I do not offer any calcium or vitamin supplements and was wondering how or if I should add this into their diet.
<Yes. Their diet should be as varied and balanced as possible. Turtle and Koi pellets make good staples, but augment with fresh plant materials as well for vitamins and fibre.>
I am also wondering if there is any other creatures that I can add to make the tank a little more interesting.
<Nothing safely.>
I was thinking about one of those blue crayfish or maybe some African cichlids?
<No. Let me state again that as turtles get bigger, they produce massive amounts of waste. It will not be possible to maintain zero ammonia, zero nitrite, and sub-20 mg/l nitrate levels in tanks with turtles. The turtles don't care so much, but fish, because they have permeable skins, are far more exposed to these toxins.>
Thank you for your time and I look forward to hearing from you soon.
Thanks,
Andi
<Cheers, Neale.>

New Pond, Fish/Turtle compatibility 12/25/09

(Original heading: New Pond, stkg., turtles 12/25/09)

I live in SW FL. My husband has just finished putting in a 1,000gallon pond in our front yard. We got the pond and the 5 fish that are in it (1 8" Koi and 4 misc. Cichlids) from our friend. He says I can't have a Pleco or a turtle in it because they will die In the winter time. (I have never seen it get any colder then 44degrees in 15years)
<Mmm, what species are the cichlids? These will perish if the temp. gets this low. If the temp. is suitable year-round for Cichlids, the hardier Plecos/Loricariids should be fine here... a few of the common species are cultured in S. to near N. Florida outdoors>
The pond is I think 24 inches at least at its deepest point and it's 9 x8'.
I want to know what all I can put in it? I want it to look very awesome and have high expectations. We will be finishing it up tomorrow as soon as the truck delivers our landscaping!!
<Mmm... well...>
The pond setup is as follows. Large pond about 4 inches above ground level, has small pond (300gallons) about 1foot above ground level which waterfalls into large pond. Will have slate rock and river rock around the perimeter
and a 1' tall fence around the area. Total area the pond is in is 12 x 12' (it's locked in by cement between garage, sidewalk, and porch on all 4 sides.) I mainly did this so the turtle if I am able to have one, won't escape.
<The turtle may well go after the fishes... and they are quite "dirty">
I think I will be able to have a nice pond but everyone is doubting that it won't just be a "fish" pond.
I also wanted to say I have been sitting here for 2 hours trying to search Plecos and turtles to see if they are pond friendly and nothing was helpful then I came to your site and am still reading all the articles on here.
Thanks in advance for reading this.
Jessica
<I would go ahead with your plans for a Turtle (or a few) in the smaller pond... screening the fall area and around the basin so it/they can't escape. Do provide a basking area if they are to be amphibious species (vs. totally aquatic). Bob Fenner>

Painted turtle as a companion for my RES; neutering to prevent aggression? 10/27/09

(Original heading: RES Companions and other Questions 10/27/09)

RES compatibility with goldfish 8/24/09

(Original heading: Out door pond 8/24/09)

Dear Crew,
<Hiya Melissa, Darrel here>
I have purchased some red eared Slider turtles from a good pet store they approx 5-6 inches long.
<Yanno, Melissa, without punctuation after the word "store" -- you are technically telling me that you shopped at a good pet store that was 5 to 6 inches long.>

I did my homework on these fun creatures to add to my outdoor pond. The issue I am having is that they have plenty of food and places to bask in the sun, the pond is approx. 20 feet long, 15 feet wide and 3 1/2 feet deep to 4 foot deep at the other end, however my pond does not get full sun light at all times
<How many hours of direct sunlight reach the basking area or shores on an average spring or fall day? The amount of sunlight and UV they can absorb even from a slightly indirect source may be plenty. How many hours a day to they bask in direct sun?>
as well as I have found some turtles escaping the pond area. Once they get out they can't get back in. Any ideas on why they keep trying to get out?
<Yes, Melissa. Turtles wander. No one knows why, exactly, but they do it.
If they are not confined they'll often wander out and never come back.
I've found escaped turtles that were gone 3 months and buried themselves in a corner of the garden under a plant. A pond area in which you plan to properly keep turtles will require a hard barrier around the perimeter. I use 1/2 inch mesh hardware cloth buried 3 inches down with a 4 inch lip bent inward 90 degrees at the top. Then I plant tightly all around the outside, so that the little fence blends into the background. Waterfall areas can be lined with brick, stone or cinder block to create a barrier, but however you do it, it must be done.>
Should I be worried about nights getting colder since they are located in a pond outside and we are located in Iowa?
<Yes. While it's true that the literature says that all the sliders (Trachemy scripta) can over-winter in a pond, even a frozen one, the truth is that not all do survive it and even if they do, it is hard on their physiology. You should have a plan for over wintering them in your garage, porch or house in some sort of big plastic where you can control the temperature. Best is to set them up like any indoor environment like in our care guides, complete with basking lamp, UV lamp, etc so that it's summer to them. Also, in the spring, don't be too quick to put them outside. Wait until you're done with the sudden cold snaps of early spring and well into the growing season.>
Also some Goldfish have seem to be safe with the turtles however my grandson just bought a Bubble Eyed Goldfish, brought it out Saturday and it has been eaten already. Any idea on why some Goldfish ok and other's not?
<Turtles are opportunistic feeders, Melissa. (Just like my brother in law, they'll eat anything that's easy, cheap and doesn't require leaving a tip!). While fish are not the main part of a Slider's diet in the wild, the bubble eye was available and easy to catch. At the same time, the opposite is true --- all of us long term Turtilians (and yes I probably just made that word up) have stories where we intentionally filled our pond with goldfish for the turtles to eat and instead they thrived, grew, got names of their own and became pets we have to worry about! I have two "feeder goldfish" that are now 11 years old, almost 7 inches long and now live in my girlfriend's Koi pond where they hold their own with a couple of 28 inch monster Koi.>
<So as a general rule, turtles and fish make a bad tank or pond mates>
Also how many turtles would be too many for this size of pond?
<That's a huge pond for turtles, Melissa. If the water condition is good, you could hold more turtles in the summer time than you'd ever want to have to collect and house during the winter!>
<Assuming that you solve the fish problem, the sunlight problem and the
fencing problem, I'd put 4 Red Eared Sliders (Trachemy scripta elegans) and maybe 4 Pseudemys (Cooters, Red Belly turtles, etc) -- but again .. no more than I can house and care for over the winter. And this is AFTER I'd fix the other problems>
Thanks
<Yer welcome!>
IOWA Outdoor Pond

Re: Red Ear Sliders and lizards in plastic container... tog.!? 8/18/09
Darrel:
<Yes!!!!!!! Not like you win anything for the correct guess, but you're right! It's me!!!!>
Thanks for the reply.
<That's why I'm here! That and the free food>
I forgot to ask you one other question. We also have an anole (just 1) which is rather small....maybe 3-4 inches long. Could the three sliders co-exist in the same aquarium?
<No>
We are also contemplating using our glass aquarium for the sliders as opposed to the acrylic one and if we keep the anole in the same aquarium, we will probably have a 50/50 ratio of land versus water. Any thoughts?

<Um..... OK, first. Sliders and acrylic aquariums are a bad combination.
No matter how small they are, they manage to scratch the inside of almost every square inch of the tank in a very short time. I think they work in shifts and one may even stand on another's head to reach the hard to get places, but in less time than you can imagine they'll have the whole tank looking like someone sanded it.>
<Second, putting an Anole into a vivarium sounds like a good idea, since turtles and anoles occupy different niches within similar eco-systems, but the problem is that sliders are called "non specific feeders" which means that -- much like my brother in law -- they'll eat just about anything they can find as long as it's easy, cheap and doesn't require leaving a tip.
As soon as you start mixing animals in this manner you're creating an eco-system and eco-systems come with a thing called a food chain.>
<So .... no.>
Thanks,
Mark

Mixing sliders with Pleco and catfish 3/25/2009

(Original heading: Re: Turtles in a 75 gallon tank 3/25/2009)

Thanks for the reply Darrel!!
Dear Crew,
<Hiya Billy - Darrel here (again)>
Can I ask a couple more questions?
<You bet!>
I got both of my turtles when they were very small, only 1 1/2-2 inches big. The first was found just over 3 years ago and the other about 6 months later. Looking at them in the new 75 gallon tank, they seem to have plenty of room... could Red Eared Sliders really outgrow a 75 gallon tank in just over 3 years?
<That depends on the layout of the tank, Billy. Remember, turtles primarily live in two dimensions -- they need length and width of an enclosure, not so much depth so a 75 gallon "Tall Show" tank is not as useable as a 75 gallon standard, etc. Basking spaces, under heat ... yet enough room to get away from under the heat, etc. are all factors>
Also, the catfish and Pleco were residents of the 49 gallon tank before the turtles. The Pleco has continued to grow and is now huge and the catfish has also thrived in the environment with no signs of stress for the 3 years. I know you said they hide their symptoms, but do you think that the two would have shared the same fate as the Oscar by now if they were having similar problems? I only had the Oscar for about 8 months before he fell victim to the poor environment I caused.
<Catfish and Plecos (to a lesser degree) are more tolerant of water quality issues than open-water dwellers, so it's not as much an issue for them. My comment was simply that, in general, there are enough reasons to NOT keep fish with turtles to outweigh any desires to house them together.>
Finally, for the new 75 gallon I bought a Eheim 2215 Canister filter suggested for fish aquariums up to 93 gallons. Do you think this is sufficient for my 75 gallon tank (which is only filled about 3/4 full to give basking room)? I was thinking of adding the underwater filter back into the mix to help keep the water clean, but also help with water circulation??? I do plan on following your water cleaning/changing suggestions immediately.
<that filter is adequate IF you do the water changes as we discussed before, but not NEARLY enough for trying to maintain an aquarium in balance. As far as undergravel filters are concerned, I'm not a fan of them and never really have been. Try as they might to make a biological filter out of a gravel bed, the bottom line result (that may be a pun) is an ultra-fine layer of detritus that lays on the bottom of the tank.>
<Change the water and clean the filter regularly, don't feed more than they will eat in 5 minutes three times a week ... and enjoy!>
Thanks again for your help!
Billy
<you're welcome!>

Will turtles and catfish coexist? Give fish a chance? 2/18/09
Hello, my name is Russell.
<Hiya Russell, Darrel here>
I once again have a question for the WWM crew.
<Let's see if our answers improve with time>
I have a 100 gallon turtle pond with three red-eared sliders that are all around six inches in length, as well as a southern painted turtle that is probably 4 inches in length.
<And plenty of filtration, we hope>
Could I put my 5-inch albino channel catfish in the pond as well?
<That answer is in three parts, Russell. >
<no>
<No>
<and NO! >
Is there a possibility the catfish could "sting" one of the turtles severely injuring it?
<That's possible, but not as likely as the turtles will continually nip at the catfish until it becomes so stressed that it fails to thrive. >
I am wanting to add something extra to the pond and figured the turtles live with catfish in real ponds, so why couldn't they in mine?
<Here's what most people don't realize, Russell. Fish and turtles aren't compatible in nature, either. They don't even occupy the same environment -- they occupy DIFFERENT environments that happen to overlap. Turtles are
opportunistic feeders that don't generally eat fish ONLY because fish are streamlined and speedy in the aquatic world and turtles just aren't (unless of course, you're trying to net one ... then they develop temporary light-speed and even some invisibility properties). >
<In the wild, all sorts of diverse animals can live in what APPEARS to be harmony -- because they have virtually limitless space to escape each other. This is never the case in a pond or aquarium and that then requires us caregivers to become referees and hall monitors. >
<Lastly, regarding what works in the wild, also remember that not every animal in the wild survives. Sliders commonly survive in frozen lakes and streams over winters .... But not EVERY one does, so leaving yours out in a frozen winter might be "natural" but that doesn't make it responsible care taking.>
<Russell, I even gave up putting feeder goldfish in my turtle ponds because the turtles fail to catch & eat them, the goldfish thrive to become large pets in their own right .... and then that one day .. when one turtle just gets lucky, it's heartbreak. >

<Bob? Neale? Anyone else? Your go? ><<No way Darrel J! RMF>>
Thanks for the help,
Russell Cook
<No charge, Russell! >

RES compatibility with fish, frogs, etc. in pond 4/11/08

(Original heading: RES in pond -04/11/08;
Getting Rid Of Two Turtles)

Hi, I have two red eared sliders that I have owned for about 10 years now, that are quite healthy and large. However, at the end of this month I have to move and can no longer have them in my new home. My aunt has a home made pond in her yard which is quite large and has some fish and frogs and so forth, but does not have any other turtles, it's mainly for her garden. I was wondering if it would be a bad idea to let them stay in there, as it will probably get to cold for them in the colder months (we live in southern Ontario Canada)? They also have never hibernated. The pond is roughly 800galons and about 2 ft deep, it have some water plants in it and leaves and things tend to fall on its surface, and quite a bit of mud on the bottom of the pond. My aunt offered to feed them over the warmer months as well, and I don't think it will come into contact with any of the natural wildlife as there really aren't any other turtle in this pond. Let me know what you think. My other option is to follow up with the reptile rescue and have them put the turtles up for adoption. Thank you for your time.
< During the warmer months they would create lots of trouble nipping at the others in the pond. During the cold winters they would probably not survive. I would recommend the reptile rescue.-Chuck>

Turtle with Baby Fish 1/28/08
I have a Mickey Mouse Platy and 16 baby Platies. I purchased a two way breeder to protect the babies but I also have a small red eared slider turtle in the same aquarium. My question is, Will the turtle eat the baby fish? Please let me know ASAP!
Thanks,
<Yes, the turtle will eat the baby fish. Turtles and fish should not be kept in the same quarters for lots of reasons, the least of which are these: Firstly, turtles need a land area under a UV-B lamp for basking, which is not really compatible with a fish tank. Secondly, turtles produce a LOT of waste, and this will overwhelm most filter systems, meaning that there'll be ammonia in the water, and this will lead to Finrot or worse. So, your next step is separating the fishes from the reptile. Cheers, Neale.>

Mixing Frogs with Turtles 1/9/08
I have a red eared slider turtle and I also have bull frog tadpoles an they are now turning into frogs, can I put the frogs in the same aquarium the turtle is in? Thank You Brenda
< Not recommended. Turtles eat frogs as part of there natural diet.-Chuck>

Invite a frog home for the holidays! Sys... 12/24/07
Hello,
<Hiya right back!>
I really hope you can help me out.
<We'll try>
A very generous friend of mine just gave me three red eared sliders, the aquarium, food, filters, all the trimmings.
<A nice friend!>
I've read a lot of information about these turtles on the internet, and I feel pretty comfortable caring for them.
<I'll also give you a link below just for more reference>
However, my ecology teacher begged me yesterday to take home her albino African clawed frog over winter break. She keeps her frog with two turtles at school, so I figured it would be okay to put Albie, as I began to call the frog, in with the turtles for the ten day break. I worry, however, that the bright heat lamps that the turtles need may hurt Albie's eyes, and that the rather noisy cascade type filter might be bothering his sensitive ears. Please supply me with peace of mind, and let me know if this living arrangement is okay for the frog and the turtles.
<It's nice to hear that you care enough to worry. Here are my initial concerns for Ablie 1) She needs a tight fitting top to keep her from deciding to go exploring 2) Unlike a turtle, a frog should have a hiding place where it can get out of sight and feel secure (it's called 'visual privacy') and if you can accomplish this it takes the worry out of the bright light issue with the turtles. 3) Lastly, and this is the big issue - just because Albie is kept with two other turtles doesn't mean that YOUR three turtles would look at Albie and think "Hey Scabber!!!! Look! Cuisses de Grenouille!">
<But there is good news. First, Albie and her brethren (African Clawed Frogs) are pretty hardy as frogs go and unless stepped on, run over or eaten Albie will make it through these 10 days just fine and return to class with a story to tell!>
I just can't take seeing Albie kept in the tiny carrying case my teacher supplied me with to bring him home for the entire duration of the break.
<My suggestion is that you split the difference -- Let Albie spend time in the aquarium when you are there to be a referee but put her somewhere else when you're not. I've rigged many a temporary home for all kinds of reptiles and amphibians from a cardboard box with a water bowl sitting on top of an ordinary heating pad set on 'low heat'>
Thank you for any help you can give me.
and have a great holiday. :)
<Thank you Amanda - may your wishes come true>
< http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/RESCareBarton.htm>

Mixing RES with ghost fish 12/15/07

(Original heading: Can I mix together with ? 12/15/2007)

Hello ,
<Hi!>
I'm 19 , male , Yangon (Myanmar).
<I'm male, VERY old .... Southern California, USA>
I would like to some question to you Sir. I have 4 ghost fishes and 4 red ear slider turtles. I would like to mix together with the same tank. Could I do ?
<I do not think that is wise. Fish and turtles live in water worlds but have very different needs. What is best for Ghost and Knife fishes is not the best for Sliders. If you compromise to accommodate both, neither will be happy or healthy. The link below points to an article that has man suggestions on inexpensive ways to house turtles.>
Thank for reading my mail.

God bless you
<Thanks - I need all the help I can get>
From
Ichiko
<Darrel>
< http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/RESCareBarton.htm>

Red-bellied living with mollies and guppies 12/5/07

(Original heading: Pudgy Turtle problems12/5/07)

Clear Day
Hello.
<Hello to you , too!>
I have a red bellied Cooter that I had purchased in Feb. of 2006 for my 3 year old daughter. It was approx. 3 inches when we had gotten him and he is now only 3.5 inches. He eats TetraMin turtle pellets and/or TetraMin shrimp every to every other day. We keep him in our 29 gal. fish tank with some mollies and guppies. All of the levels in the water test out correctly and he has a turtle dock to bask outside of the water under a UVA/UVB bulb. The water in the tank is filtered.
<The first comment I want to make here is that while turtles and fish live in what appears to humans to be the same environment, in reality they occupy very different niches in the aquatic world. GENERALLY speaking, the conditions required for fish health are often only marginal for turtles. In addition, while fish (especially healthy fish) don't make up a high percentage of a turtle's diet, every once in a while they just get lucky and suddenly a prized fish is gone.>
Last week I noticed that the skin around his neck and legs seems bubbled almost as if it is filled with air or something? I can't seem to find anything about that other than swollen eyes which he does not have. I didn't know if maybe he has some sort of shell growth problem since he hasn't grown at all really and maybe he's getting to chubby for his shell. If you could figure something out for us I would greatly appreciate that.
<The questions to ask here are his behavior and activity. Is he active? Any problems diving? Internal infections can cause gas pockets that puff out and make a turtle extremely buoyant. This isn't common without a slew of secondary symptoms, but I thought I'd ask.>
<It's also possible -- just as you suspect -- that he is simply obese and this is possibly due to a dietary imbalance or environmental issues or both. First, see if you can obtain Koi Pellets at your local fish store. I've used very high quality (and expensive) imported brands and locally produced cheaper brands (such as Kay-Tee) with great success. Failing this, Repto-Min food sticks are wonderful -- they're essentially identical to Koi pellets, just more expensive. Make sure that his basking area gets to at least 83 degrees (f) and preferably as high as 93 -- and that his water is no warmer than 73 (preferably 70). Either or both of these conditions can produce the abnormalities you are describing -- a turtle that eats more than it is metabolizing will have stunted growth while still appearing to be fat.>
If you need pictures to better help in seeing his problem I would be happy to provide them for you!
<Is his name Pete by any chance?>
<Please check out the following article and measure your care against the recommendations and, by all means, write back with pictures!>
<regards, Darrel>
< http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/RESCareBarton.htm >
Thank you very much!
Kimberly

Red ear slider and catfish 10/16/07
I recently set up a turtle tank for 2 Red Eared Sliders. They were babies and one died about a week and half after arrival.
<Sorry for your loss>
I also have in the tank a small catfish I purchased from Wal-Mart since the guy at the pet store told me that it would not hurt. However, since the fish has been in the tank the remaining turtle just does not seem as interested in hanging out in the water like he used to. I am thinking that maybe it's coincidental that when I check on it he's always basking. Although usually in a different position so I worry less when I see
this. Last time I changed the tank and took the fish out, Speedy (RES) instantly became more active. I don't know if it was the excitement of the new water or the absence of the fish. I have only had him for just a little more than a couple of weeks so I don't have much behavior history to go on. While at work I ask my husband to check on him and he tells me Speedy is swimming. I know he eats. I have witnessed it. What is your opinion on this situation? I feel so paranoid since the loss of the other turtle. I love this little guy.
I never realized just how much personality turtles had until I was able to sit and really watch one!
<Yes, I agree with you. Many turtles MORE than make up for their lack of conversation with tons of personality and for as many different kinds of wet, scaled and shelled creatures are around me, I always am drawn back to the little green Red Eared's of my youth.>
<Ahem. Now down to cases. My standard advice is to resist the urge to mix fish and turtles. As much as it may SEEM that they occupy the same environment, they really don't and their needs are quite different. In your case, I have no doubt that Speedy would rather bask than share the water with a catfish. Catfish are often the Disgruntled Postal Workers of the freshwater fish community -- a short temper, a scavenger's "eat whatever and whenever I can" mentality AND .... and this is the most concerning .... they're not very fearful. Most small fish would see a large (to them) green scaly thing with feet and claws & stuff and simply decide to move to the left, at least until they're large enough to see things differently. But the smallest catfish can look at a full grown turtle and try to see if it's for dinner. So I think you're on the right track. Find a new home for the catfish so you & Speedy can spend quality time together.>
<regards, Darrel>

Re: red ear slider and catfish 10/16/07
I want to thank-you for your response.
<You're welcome! We all truly enjoy helping>
Since sending you my letter, I did some MORE online reading and realized (and how obvious) how beneficial it is to feed your RES outside of it's tank in another container.
<You'll read many different opinions on this. On one hand it's a nice way to keep the tank clean, on the other if feeding becomes a hygiene issue in the main tank it means that you're over feeding her and how soon the tank needs cleaning is a good indicator of how well she's being kept.>
I decided to do this every evening when I get home from work now. Speedy goes in a special bowl for a private swim and dinner. She loves it! (I think she is a she the bottom of her shell is caved in) Also, now, since I started this Speedy has become more active in her regular tank.
<All sounds well!>
Another question I now have is that she seems to REALLY like a picture of other RES on a box from her floating dock. Is this a good thing for her? I have heard in the past that sometimes this isn't good for birds because then they get depressed realizing it's not real. Could this be true for turtles as well? If not then do you suppose it would be ok to put up more pictures?
<Turtles don't get depressed that way, so I don't think that will be an issue. As far as more pictures are concerned keep in mind that Speedy would be most 'at home' in a tank that was like her natural home>
As far as the catfish goes I have not relocated it yet, however, since Speedy has been getting some "free time" in her special bowl she now swims right along w/ that catfish and she is sooooo.... very attentive to anything that moves. Even the cat watching her! (of course I have a secure lid on things)
<As long as Speedy and Doinkus (I just made up a name for the catfish) are happy and you're happy, then all is good>
Thank-you again for your input! I think I might be at a turtle owning point now that a discussion board might be good for me!
<There are many good ones to choose from -- a surprisingly common hobby>
My sons birthday gift has turned into a new love for myself! Who ever would have thought!
<A lot of us think that! http://www.lantera.com/wwm/ >
<best wishes to you and ... keep in touch>
<Darrel>

Baby Map Turtle and Juvenile RES in Same Tank? 8/23/07
Hello?
<Hello?>
We have juvenile RES (about 1 Â½ yrs) in a tank. We have purchased a Mississippi Map turtle that is a baby and would like to put them in the same tank. Do you think this would be a problem? The RES is about 5 inches from the top to bottom of shell and the Map turtle is about 2 inches.
Thanks!
Hope
<It is generally recommended that you don't mix species for a number of reasons. One big difference between them is that the Mississippi Map turtle (Graptemys sp.) is much more aquatic than the Slider (Trachemys scripta elegans) and consequently much more sensitive to poor water quality. Things that don't really bother Sliders, such as small mounts of ammonia in the water, can prove fatal to Map turtles by promoting bacterial infections. So you need to make sure the water in its vivarium is very well filtered and changed regularly (I'd suggest 100% weekly). Your other big problem is that the two species have entirely different diets. Sliders are omnivores when young and almost entirely herbivores when adult, so juveniles need 50% green foods when young to 90% green foods when mature. Map turtles, on the other hand, are specialist predators that feed on snails, crayfish etc. Finally, there are differences in temperament. Map turtles are pretty snappy, while Sliders are more laid back. If you have a really big vivarium you might choose to give it a go anyway and see what happens, but otherwise best keep them separated. Good luck, Neale>

Question... Can two fire belly toads and a red eared slider turtle live together in the same aquarium? 8/10/07
I think the tank is 20gals and is a terrarium. we have a filter, heater and a filter/water circulator. I have had some bad experience with previous turtles and don't want the same to happen. A few years ago two of my turtles that I had for approximately 2 years were eaten by a craw fish that was supposed to be a treat for my painted turtles. the crawfish was living under a rock eating the turtles fish and other food sources for a couple months, ate one turtle then a few days later the other. It was a big surprise when I drained the tank and found a crawfish about three times the size it was when we bought it. Especially since I thought it was already eaten because I didn't see it for two months. Anyway if I put the two toads in the same tank as the turtle which is about 2 and a half inches will they stay away from each other and be able to live healthy? I know the kinds of environments they both need and am just wondering about having a variety of species living together. Is there any species that can coexist with a red eared slider?
<Greetings. No, you must not mix frogs/toads with your sliders or for that matter crayfish. Sliders are largely herbivores and 75%+ of their diet should be plant food, particularly when they are adult. But that doesn't mean they aren't opportunists, and in the confines of an aquarium they will catch and eat anything. Even if they don't manage to kill the toads, their nipping are likely to damage them and let fungus or some other infection set in. Furthermore, your terrapins are very messy animals and pollute the water heavily; the toads, by contrast, are largely aquatic and require good, clean water. Bottom line, you can't mix them. Now, you're mentioning feeder fish, and I'm just going to remind you that [a] sliders don't need to eat live fish; [b] live goldfish and minnows especially are a source of thiaminase, a substance known to harm reptiles in the long term; and [c] your terrapins should be mostly eating greens anyway. I mention all of this because of your story with the crayfish; if I'm feeling charitable I'd suggest you hadn't done your homework on how to keep terrapins in captivity. Crayfish don't mix with anything, period. Not even each other. Terrapins and turtles cannot be mixed with anything but other terrapins and turtles of comparable size. Please understand a red-ear slider get to the size of a dinner plate, so before adding "tankmates", consider whether you have space enough already for the ones you have. Realistically, you're after something around 55 gallons for one or two specimens. So, be sure and read the articles here at WWM about keeping red-ear sliders; there are several of them, all good, and brim full of useful information. Cheers, Neale

Red Eared Slider and a Fiddler Crab 8/2/07
Can a small fiddler crab survive in the same tank as a small red eared slider. We purchased the fiddler crab today and wanted to know if they would both survive in the same tank before we try to combine them.
Thanks in advance for any knowledge you may lend us.
Sonia
<Hello Sonia. No, fiddlers and red ear sliders cannot coexist. Fiddler crabs require brackish water conditions to live for any length of time. In freshwater vivaria, they die after a few weeks or months. They need something like 25-50% seawater to do well (SG 1.005-1.010), and that water needs to be made up with marine salt mix, not "tonic salt". Too many people try to keep them in freshwater set-ups, and they're disappointed when they die. If you want companions for fiddler crabs, the best choices are salt-tolerant or brackish water fishes that are too small to cause them harm. Guppies and mollies are ideal, but small gobies work well, too. Fiddler crabs are sometimes mixed with mudskippers, though this tends to have inconsistent results, the mudskippers sometimes bullying the poor crabs. Red ear sliders are sometimes found in (low salinity) brackish water in the wild, but like many opportunistically brackish water reptiles they will regularly make use of freshwater for drinking and so cannot be safely confined to a brackish water vivarium unless there way, perhaps, a brackish water pool at one end and a freshwater pool at the other. Bottom line, no, you can't mix them. Please do enjoy your fiddler crab in its own vivarium. Kept in groups they are lively and fun animals. Not difficult to keep, though many people mess up by not giving them the conditions or food they require. Cheers, Neale.>

Slider and Cichlid together 07/26/07
Help Please!!!!!!!!!!
<That's what we do here!>
I have a Red Ear Slider named Dave. He's been alone in a 25 gallon tank for 2 1/2 yrs. I have never put anything else in there with him, until now and except the little feeder fish he eats.
<Turtles do well in groups, but they seem perfectly happy to be alone as well.>
I recently purchased a Red Devil, without knowing it's history.
<We here at WWM are assuming that you mean a Red Devil Cichlid Fish (Cichlasoma labiatus) as opposed to something else, right?>
She's very aggressive, do you think she'll survive? Or will Dave eat her? Or I fear she'll eat him!!!!! What do you think????????
<Well first, I think you should conserve on the use of multiple exclamation points and question marks. You never know when there will be a shortage of punctuation and you'll wish you hadn't wasted them.>
<Seriously, it's best not to try to keep fish and turtles together because their needs are quite different. While fish can be part of a turtle's diet, they are so BAD at catching fish that it's almost comical. I tossed some feeder goldfish into my outside turtle pond 8 years ago and they've grown to be almost the size of small Koi and on the rare occasions that the turtles try to catch them, they scoot away without even seeming concerned.>
<In your case, if it came down to it, I'd bet on Dave. Turtles are tough little guys when it comes down to it. My main concern is to see that Dave is so well fed that he just can't be bothered going after Victoria (You didn't tell us your Red Devil's name - so I just made that up). The same goes for her. If she's otherwise well fed and well cared for, she'll probably just think of Dave as an annoyance and nothing more.>
<With that said, Diana, wild things are wild things and when you keep them together you'll always run the risk of something unexpected happening.>
Thank You

Diana
<Darrel>

Turtles and koi mixed 07/18/07
Hello, Crew,
I have a few questions. Will a 5-year old female Eastern Painted turtle eat koi that are larger than her? And will she leave an unfenced pond? What about a 3-year old male? Thanks, Joe
<Hello Joe! Chrysemys picta picta is one of the nicest North American freshwater turtles (what we call "terrapins" in England, bizarrely enough after a Native American name for these animals apparently not used by most North Americans!). In fact, this was the second species I ever kept, and good fun it was too. Lived for many years before being passed on to a zoo when I went to college. Anyway, in common with other species in the genus, these animals are primarily herbivorous, which is why their optimal diet in captivity is one based on green foods. Juveniles will eat small fish as well as insect larvae, but the adults are too slow and clumsy to catch fish, though they certainly eat carrion. The problem is that in a pond the odds are biased towards the turtle because it is more difficult for the fish to swim away to safety. Feral red-ear terrapins have been reported eating ducklings in London ponds, apparently being released into the ponds by irresponsible owners bored with these large and somewhat difficult pets. So while you might be lucky mixing koi and turtles, and it's certainly be done, there are no guarantees at all. As for your turtles upping-sticks and moving out: yes, very likely. Even if they don't get out, there's nothing to stop predators like mink or cats getting in, so this is something to consider carefully. Cheers, Neale>

Mixing red eared sliders with goldfish 5/18/07

(Original heading: I need to ask about the Red Eared Slider turtle, sys. mostly - 5/18/07)

hi my name is Lisa and I have a couple of questions that I need to ask about the Red Eared Slider turtle.
<welcome Lisa, I'm Darrel - let's see if we can help>
My daughter Ashley brought home a Red Eared Slider turtle from the lake out in East TX. However, I am trying to find the right one of the research on these Red Eared Slider turtles.
<for pet purposes they're pretty much all the same. If he has red patches near his ears, that's good enough for now>
The turtle we have now, I guess it's a he and he's about 2 3/4" just a small baby Red Eared Slider, I am having problems with him, he's seem like he doesn't want to bask, but I also don't have the extra $$$ to buy all of this stuff for him.
<they don't need very much, let's see what we can do>
I have a 10 gallon tank along with my goldfishes I have about 8 of them, would it hurt him to be in that tank with my fishes? Will he drown and won't be able to get back up for air?
<better not. Water levels and temperatures and a lot of other things are different>
I have a small container that I just recently bought a couple of days ago, will he be ok in that container until he will get bigger to be put outside?
<as long as he can't climb out of it and the cat or dog (if you have them) can't get to him, it should be fine for now>
How high does the water need to be for him to swim? I have notice that he just like to swim, he's not interested in the food I offered him. But he will poke his head out of the water and look around.
<for now, all we need is enough water to that he can get wet (but they do like deeper water) and a space where he can easily climb to get completely dry. The first thing to do is see that he can get him warm to about 85-90 degrees when out of the water. I'd like you to put some sort of light bulb over his "dry area" so that he can warm up -- that will probably also help him start to eat (they eat and digest when they're warm, not cold). Warm ... but not HOT. If you don't have a way to let him get warm when he's out of the water, you should at least take him outside for a few times a day and let him walk or warm up in the sun. Just remember they can heat up very quickly and they can get away from you if you don't watch them>
Can you please respond back at this email address:
<<deleted>>
I really need some help on this little guy, this would be my first time having to raise a turtle.
<they're fun and interesting pets>
1 more question, will he be mean and aggressive to us and other people around him?
<usually if they're well fed and happy, they're easy to get along with>
thank you for your time. Lisa
<You're welcome Lisa. Make these first few steps and then write back and let us know how he's doing!>

Mixing fish with red eared sliders in 50 gallon outdoor pond 4/4/07

(Original heading: Moving Turtles To An Outdoor Pond 4/4/07)

I have two red ear slider (6 inches/1.5 years old) turtles I adopted from a friend in a 40 gallon tank with some small feeder fish and some small tetras and a 5 inch black and white gold fish (he came as a feeder fish but obviously was mixed up and is getting big...there are also some various freshwater plants roaming around (you can't keep plants tied down with any turtles I have learned). The tank is only filled up 75 percent as there is a water fall and I also don't want the turtles to get out.
Anyway I did some research and learned these turtles can live 10-30+ years so I figured I better read up and give them the best home as possible. I eventually want a large pond in my back yard in a few years which will house them.
I have recently come across a 50 gallon black tub that can be put in the ground as a pond but I have set it up on the corner of my outside deck.
http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?action=productDetail&productId=56567-1569-LP5718&lpage=none
I want the turtles to have a place outside and keep them out there so they can get some sun and want to have a nice habitat for them. I have run water in
it for a week and there are no leaks. I have been reading about ponds on your website (most knowledgeable website
I have every been too and am hooked on this site) and have recently put a rectangular grid out of some large pvc pipe and have weighed them down so they have a place to escape raccoons, cats, dogs, kids, etc.
I also have a Rio 2100 for water movement.
Anyway, I was wondering what kind of fish (any will do, just something hardy) I could put out there and how many can I keep? Fifty gallons is not a lot of water and freshwater fish get huge. Is it the same rule of thumb as salt? What's the hardiest freshwater fish I could put in there?
Also, with the temperature changes outdoors, I am sure that water will fluctuate with temperatures ranging from 50's to 100's. I can bring the turtles in (although I would think they can easily handle that) but is there a fish you could recommend or a certain type I can experiment with? What would be the max number of fish?
Also, any type of hardy plants you could recommend just for nutrient export that is also very hardy? I was originally just going to keep the turtles in there (but I will bring them in from time to time as I am setting up a 90 gallon now just for them and also in the winters).
Is it terrible to do run a hose to do a water change or to dilute the water with? I could treat the water but would rather treat it after I diluted it. Thanks for the help!
< A 50 gallon tub is not really that big. If you are not interested in what the fish look like then I would go with a few Gambusia or simple mosquito fish. Being outdoors you don't want this tub to be a breeding ground for mosquitoes. They are small and fast but very attractive. Another interesting fish to try would be the common paradise fish. They can actually be quite hardy in the temp. range you described. They are colorful and can actually breed outdoors when conditions are right. As far as plants go I would look at any of the pond plants that grow out of the water. They provide shade and are very effective at removing toxins from the water. If you are going with the hose technique from replacing water, you will need a water conditioner to treat the chloramines for the fish.-Chuck>

Tankmates for red eared sliders 07/02/06

(Original heading: Tankmates For Turtles 07/02/06)

Hello, I had a question about my 2 Red Eared Sliders. I know its not a good idea to put fish in the tank with them but I was wondering if there is anything else I can put in the tank with them like crabs or little frogs or anything like that. Please help. Thank you
< Unfortunately they will eat all the little critters you have mentioned. Anything in their tank becomes a potential meal.-Chuck>

Mixing fish with Eastern Long Neck turtle 6/14/06

(Original heading: Three Turtles Not Getting Along... good name for a bar... 6/14/06)

Hey guys, I am not too sure who to go for on help with this as I have rung local pet shops and they aren't too sure how to help me as they have not experienced this problem I have 3 turtles of 1 year of age (2 Eastern Long Neck and 1 Short Neck - I am not too sure of the exact species name as I don't have my handbook handy).

The problem is the short neck turtle is growing fast. The tank is more than sufficient in size to accommodate the 3 turtles, the eastern long necks are about 8 cm in diameter and the short neck is about 12 - 15 cm. The short neck has become quite aggressive and over the last two weeks I have noticed well, I wouldn't say fighting but meal times have become a bit aggressive. This has furthered to the short neck attacking and biting the foot of one of the longnecks consistently (this started 3 days ago) and I have noticed that it is still in good health but it is staying on the turtle dock out of the water. I am sure that it is more than them just playing and I am worried that the longneck is going to end up hurt. Tomorrow I will be buying a heater for my other spare tank and it has a filter and all, however, this leads to one of my questions, am I able to put goldfish in with the Longnecks while they are small and will not eat them? if need be I will give them to the neighbours next door it is not an issue just I am checking to see if they can be put in the same tank?)
<Turtles eat fish in nature. Usually they cannot catch them on their own and end up eating the dead and sick ones. The turtles would probably continually chase them until they finally caught one to eat. Turtles are very messy and their waste would soon pollute a tank to the point where fish would find it difficult to live. I would go without the fish.>
I am sure that the long neck and the short neck are not getting on and it is more than just playing, and I am sure the long neck is not going into hibernation as it is moving around and quite awake (we have just gone into winter here now) Thank you for your help Michael
< Turtles are not social animals. In nature and in your tank they actually view each other as completion and will continue to harass each other until they are separated. I often recommend only one turtle to a tank.-Chuck>

RES and algae eaters or other fish 2/5/06

(Original heading: Turtles and Fish 2/5/06)

I have two RES and I was wondering if I can maybe get an algae eater to help me out in between cleaning. If I can't then what kind of fish can I put in there if you can tell me everything I need to know PLEASE!!!!!!!!
<Hi, I would not recommend any fish for your Turtle tank. Turtles are dirty and foul the water too quickly in average sized aquariums; this creates poor living conditions for your fish. The turtles will also try to eat whatever fish you keep with them. For cleaning the tank I would recommend a magnetic algae scrubber, the kind that float, it will do a much better job than any fish would. Please see the link below and related links at the top of the page for more information on Red Eared Sliders. Best Regards, Gage
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/redearsliders.htm >

Don't Put Turtle With Bettas - 01/09/2006
Dear Crew, Thanks for your very informative site. I've learned a lot from it while looking for answers to my particular "problem". Unfortunately, I was not able to find anything that addresses the circumstances that I'm trying to work with. I would appreciate any information that you could offer on the following situation.
I have a 30 gallon freshwater tank with two small turtles in it (1 inch). The tank has enough gravel to have a 3 inch layer at the bottom and a dry spot at one end when there is about 7 inches of water in it. The gravel sits on an UGF plate and the water is pulled through it into a Marineland Magnum 350 filter with filled with charcoal. Right now, the water is returned below the surface and there is no real aeration happening. There are a couple of live plants and a few large rocks to provide cover and resting places for the turtles. The water we use is straight from the tap and not treated in any way. I clean the filter approximately once every two weeks and the water generally stays clear.
I also have a Betta living in a 1 gallon tank and would like to give him the opportunity to live in the tank with the turtles. I know that I will need to do something about aeration and ammonia wastes, but would like to know if the turtles and the Betta will be compatible before making the changes/investment.
Please reply to this e-mail address directly if you are able to.
Thanks in advance, Phil
< The turtles will eat the Betta the first chance they get.-Chuck>

Turtle Will Eat Fish 1/1/06
Hi, my family got a Red-Eared Slider Turtle and we also own a Chinese Fighting Fish. My family was wondering if it would be wise to put them in the same tank. I don't think it is a good idea but they are persistent to find the truth. Would my turtle eat my fish?
< In a heartbeat.-Chuck>

Turtles With Crabs (Not What You Think) 11/23/05
Can hermit crabs live in the same tank as a red eared slider turtle?
Thanks.
<Turtles are pretty good eaters and will try and eat anything including hermit crabs. The hermit crabs will go back into their shells when provoked so may lose a leg if the turtle can get hold of it. The turtle may pull it out of its shell too. I would not recommend it, but a well fed turtle may leave it alone for awhile until it gets really hungry.-Chuck>

Tiny Turtles With Violet Fishes 10/28/05
I have a 20 gallon brackish water aquarium with a violet goby. I just got two tiny turtles - they are about 1 inch each. I would like to know if I put something in there where they can get out of the water - could I keep them in there? Yes they are turtles that live in water, and I do not know what kind they are. Even if I could keep them in there, It would be only a temporary housing until I can get a turtle cage.
< Little turtles would benefit from a turtle raft by Zoomed. This is a little flotation device used to float up and down as the water level in the tank changes. They need heat and special lighting too. I would recommend a turtle book so you can read up on the requirements needed as well as check out the WWM website for setting up a turtle tank. Finding out what kind of turtle you have would be a big help too.-Chuck>
<<A side note: A violet goby could easily be hurt by a turtle. Not great tankmates at all. Furthermore, brackish water probably isn't ideal for the turtles. -SCF>>

RES turtles will eat Newts; Newts may also be toxic to turtles 10/22/05

(Original heading: Turtles Will eat The Newt 10/22/05)

Hello, I would like to thank you for your extensive question database which has provided me with many answers!
I was wondering just how long one red-eared slider baby would be alright in a ten gallon tank. I've been researching and planning for providing a great home for one of these guys for a long time and realize that one day it will need a nice happy pond.
< A ten gallon tank would only work for a few months depending on the temps you turtle is kept at.>
Would a Whisper internal (10i) filter be good for about 5 gallons of water for the little guy?
< Turtles are messy feeders. A filter helps but only as long as you are willing to clean it. Clean it often and do many water changes.>
I also have one fire-bellied newt and was wondering (although I am quite doubtful) if they would be okay in the tank together until the turtle grows larger, or if a separate tank right at the beginning would be necessary.
< Turtle will try and eat the newt every chance it gets. The newt may also be toxic to the turtle.>
If this is possible, my newt tank is planted heavily with live plants. I would not mind if the turtle ate them, but have heard
that some plants are not okay for a turtle to eat. I have Mondo grass, Anacharis, java moss, and a few other plants (I don't know the names of the others.)
< Turtle would pick at the Anacharis and probably leave the others alone but it would be a bull in a china shop with all the plants being uprooted every chance he gets.>
I also have a five gallon tank at home that is not being used and think that either the newt or the turtle could stay in it for a while. (I think the newt would be happier there than the turtle since it would only have about 2-3 gallons of water.) I previously had three newts, but the other two were VERY young and, like many pet store fire bellies, had a rough beginning and came to me with rot which I was unable to cure.
I eventually separated them from my adult, who is still living a happy and healthy life hanging out in her favorite plant, the Anacharis bunch. Also, what is your opinion on the occasional snack of a ghost shrimp for aquatic turtles?
< Great.>
(I know I am asking many questions here.) There is a very large debate over whether to use gravel or not. Of course cleaning is easier without it. I read where someone had used no gravel but had vinyl flooring in the bottom to give traction. Do you think the turtles really care?
< No not really.>
Like fish do, would turtles eat their own poo if there was no gravel to trap it?
< They have been known to eat their own fecal matter if they are hungry and no other food is around. Many fish stores carry gravel vacs that will do a great job of cleaning your gravel while siphoning the tank water.>
Thank you in advance for you time and patience with my plethora of questions. I appreciate what you do in an attempt to rid the world of people who improperly care for their pets.
< Just plugging away one question at a time.-Chuck>

Amphibian and Chelonian mix 8.27.05
I keep my red ear slider in an aquarium with 3 Firebelly toads, a tree frog, and a chubby frog. I have the aquarium so one side is water and the other side is land. I have been wondering, however, if the mix of reptile and amphibian is safe. I do have a filter and light source and the animals usually keep away from each other. Also, I used to have a soft-shell turtle; I had kept him with the frogs (but at that time I had one Firebelly). Sadly, he died in a weird way. A large, black, tube like thing with feathery ends came out of his anus, and hung out about an inch. We suspected that it had to do with the turtles eating habits, for it ate up to six fish a day. Recently, I have been wondering if it had to do with the frogs. I really don't want my red ear slider to die, so please help. Also, we have been feeding the slider a more reasonable amount of food. PLEASE HELP!!
<I am not sure what the large black feathery thing might have been, but it might be worth contacting a reptile Veterinarian to find out. I would not recommend keeping frogs with turtles. Turtles foul the water very quickly, frogs and toads are very sensitive to the quality of their environment and will not tolerate less than optimal conditions for very long. I am not sure if the frogs and toads you are keeping are toxic to animals that ingest them but it is definitely something you will want to look into, I am sure a turtle would sample a frog if given the opportunity. I would definitely keep the turtle in a separate tank. I would also get some care sheets on the different types of frogs you are keeping to ensure that your setup is meeting their needs as well, heating, lighting, feeding, etc. -Gage>

Mixing Turtles and Fish 7.24.05
I just got 2 hatchling turtles last week. When I got them, the guy told me that I could put them in my aquarium with my fish as long as I had something for them to dock on. He gave me a floating rock that goes in my tank allowing them some where to dock. My question is WILL THEY EAT MY FISH? I ask this because I saw on the net while I was trying to do a little search on them, that they eat worms, fish, shrimp, etc.
<Yes yes yes, if they can catch your fish they will eat them. The other problem is that the turtles will foul your water in a bad way. You will need to do water changes weekly to bi-weekly as your turtles grow. For more information on aquatic turtles please read the following article. Best Regards, Gage http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/redearsliders.htm >

Mixing RES with other species of animals

(Original heading: Don't Buy Turtles From Street Walkers)

Hello experts!
< The definition of en expert is someone who realizes how little they know.>
Long time listeners, first time callers.
< Thanks for dialing in.>
I think my husband and I have gotten in over our heads. About four months ago we thought it would be fun to get a small hobby aquarium. We started with a 20 gallon tank, which we cycled for about 6 weeks and have since had a pretty good success with our fish. About a month ago, we were walking in the city, and a woman on the street was selling baby turtles. We asked her if we could keep it in a tank with our tropical fish, and she said it would be ok. (I realize now that buying a turtle on the street was a huge mistake, but it seemed so small and harmless.) We brought the turtle back to our tank, set it up with an appropriate basking island, and everything was okay.
He even learned to take food from my husbands hand.
After a few weeks, we decided to add some silver dollar size angels to our tank. They died within a few days of each other, and we saw the turtle (and the other fish) eating the remains. We figured our tank just wasn't suitable for angels, and thing were okay again for a while. Currently, we have the following in our tank: 2 zebra Danios, 2 black fin tetras, one iridescent shark, three guppies, a molly and a red tailed sword, one catfish and (my favorite) a very small elephant nose fish. We haven't had any real illnesses - one case of ich a month ago. We just added two Plecos, who have been producing really long, stringy white feces. Really long (inches). But, I digress.
Last night, we looked up to see the turtle with the elephant nose's face in its mouth! We were shocked, and didn't know what to do - I was practically in tears. The elephant nose had not been sick - he was attacked unprovoked. We put the fish net in the water and tapped the turtle until he let go. Dazed, the elephant nose headed back into his ship for cover. We immediately removed the turtle to a quarantine tank. We decided not to return the turtle to the tank that night.
< Good idea.>
We did some research, and read online that goldfish (large) and turtles can live together peacefully. We bought an inexpensive 20g setup (filter, gravel, heater) and put turtle and three large shiny goldfish in. Well, about a half hour ago we saw the turtle grab onto one of their tails! The goldfish shook him off, but now we don't know what to do! We don't want to keep a small turtle alone in a twenty gallon tank.
Meanwhile, in the original tank, the elephant nose came out to eat earlier, and his nose is shredded to bits! I feel awful, and totally unprepared to handle this situation.
Here are my questions:
Can we keep anything with a turtle, safely?
<No>
What about crawfish,
<No>
fiddler crabs
<No>,
or frogs?
<No>
Is there anything I can do to help the elephant nose heal?
< Keep the water clean and watch for any infections. Redness indicates a bacterial infection while a whitish cottony growth around the attacked area is a fungal infection.> Will he make it?
< If the wounds heal and the mouth is still functional then he will probably live. If the mouth is too damaged and it cannot eat then probably not.>
Do you think our Plecos are sick?
< No, Plecos are vegetarians with pretty long digestive systems. While they are eating it is not too unusual to have long sting fecal matter following behind them.>
I really appreciate any help you can give. Thanks Rebecca (and Sal)
< In the wild, turtles eat everything you suggested. The crustaceans may have a hard exoskeleton now, but when they shed their new skeleton with be soft for a few hours. In this time the turtle could easily have them torn to shreds and eaten.-Chuck>

What fish can I put in with my RES?

(Original heading: TURTLES WITH FISH)

Hello. I was wanting to know if there are any kind of fish I can put with my red- eared slider? Another question was that I was reading your info on red-eared sliders and the staff said not to feed them feeder goldfish, which I did for the first time last night is this bad for them?
< Large active fish that stay off the bottom work best with turtles. They will eat anything that they can catch. Fish are part of a turtle's natural diet but it should have other things in it too. Too much protein forces the turtle's shell to grow at a different rate than the rest of the turtles body. Earthworms, crickets, mealworms, kingworms and commercial aquatic turtle food make for a well rounded diet.-Chuck>

Red-Eared Turtle with Catfish
I have a 75 gal. plastic pond in my backyard, is it possible for my red ear slider turtle to live with my catfish?
< Your turtle will probably constantly be taking nips and bites out of your catfish. It may not kill it but it may damage the catfish enough so that it gets sick and dies.-Chuck>

Mixing new turtle with existing turtle and fish in 500 gallon pond

(Original heading: Red- ear slider)

My Uncle works for the water dept and last year brought a turtle to me and asked to put it in my 500 gal pond. It appears to be a male, long tail short claws. He just found another one in the street and brought it over, I think it is a younger female, long claws, shorter tail, will they get along? I have several koi and about 6 smaller goldfish, my original turtle never bothered them and I'm hoping they will all get along. Any problems with this situation?
<Shouldn't be - though you may want to feed them from time to time with prepared foods, or they may snack on your goldfish if they can catch them (which isn't too likely). M. Maddox>

Mixing new turtle with existing turtle and fish in 500 gallon pond

(Original heading: Red- ear slider)

Thanks for the quick response, but I went this morning and checked on everyone and my larger turtle has the little one cornered and is biting at its head, feet, tail whatever he can get a hold of...I got worried for the little ones safety and took her out. Is this a mating thing or is he that aggressive??
<Hmm, no luck with them together I guess...if he doesn't like her, I would wait until spring to re-introduce her and see how it goes. Good luck! M. Maddox>

Mixing Pond Turtles with other aquatic animals

(Original heading: Turtle Buddies)

Are there any other aquatic animals that can safely cohabitate with a larger turtle (in our case a pacific pond turtle)?
<Not that I can think of off the top of my head, feeder goldfish have been known to last a little while, but eventually get eaten, I imagine a crawfish would make a nice snack, frogs or newts would be lunch. You could try a very fast durable fish, something that can put up with less than perfect water quality. I had some Giant Danios spawn in one of my turtle tanks once, ended up eating all the fry, but the adults survived with the turtle for a while. A few years down the road I figured I'd try the Giant Danios with the same type of turtle, they where all eaten within a week. So, fast, durable, forgiving fish, with good cover, and you may be able to pull it off, but I would not recommend it. -Gage>

Fish Compatibility with RES
I was just wondering if there is any kind of fish that would be okay to put in the tank with my res turtle.
<Hmm, you will want to choose a fish that you will not get too attached to, incase it gets munched by the turtle, also, something that is forgiving to poor water quality, turtles are messy. I kept some Giant Zebra Danios with a RES for years. The second time I attempted the combination all the Danios ended up as food. I think if I were to try it again I would try Rosy Barbs, they are active and colorful but I am not sure how good they are at dodging turtles though. So my official answer is no, it is not a good environment for the fish, and there is a great chance they will be eaten. If I were to try it, I would pick something from the fish store that is very common, very cheap, and a fast swimmer. Best of luck, Gage.>

Large RES turtle mixed with Koi in pond

Turtles and Fish

<Hi, MikeD here>
Please help...I was given (by a pet store) a RES about 12" long<It took me a considerable amount of time to deduce what a RES was, aka Red-Eared Slider. That borders on cruelty to ME, you know! **grin**>. About a week later ALL of my Koi (15 large) died. I did not realize I needed to treat the water with antibiotic before I introduced the turtle<You don't. Who told you that?>. Anyway, I also think the turtle has a bit of ROT<OK, I'll bite, is this just rot, as in an infection or is it another acronym?>. About 2" long diamond shape, whit sot<White spot?> on the shell. Also, shell peeling around the area <I'd use either Iodine or Mercurochrome on the spot initially, drying it with a paper towel after it soaks in, then return the turtle to the pond. Also, make sure the turtle has plenty of room to get completely out of the water. If this basking spot is not in sunlight, then you'll need to get a full spectrum light bulb to train on this spot. Sunlight is Mother Nature's first line of defense>. My question...is this ROT toxic to fish?<NO> I am wanting to re-introduce Koi as I have treated the pond with medication for 10 days.<Introducing the turtle should have had no ill effect on the fish, and I've never heard of adding antibiotics for this purpose. I'd seriously have to re-think taking advice from them if this is what they are telling you.> Thank you!<You're very welcome>

Community Fish with a Turtle
Hello everyone at www.WetWebMedia.com,
I am setting up my red-ear turtle tank and am wondering if I can add schooling fish like neon tetra's, and also a algae eater?
<Only if you want them to get eaten.>
Will the turtle be able to catch the tetras in such a large tank?
<What else does it have to do besides try?>
Petco has a smaller turtle tank with many red-ears and soft shells and a single goldfish that I have yet to see them catch, or chase.

Thanks for your help!
<You are welcome. -Steven Pro>

To: Part 2, Part 1

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