Hi, my guppy is starving, what do I do, I think he is going to die?    3/4/13
I have had 2 guppies for a few months then suddenly one started acting odd  and going to the top of the water,
I thought it might of been because of fertilizer dosing
<Both would be similarly affected>
 so I did a 45% water change and put prime in then 2 days later: today
<Good>
Thought it may of been from the dying Anubias which was because the co2 I squirted on it was contaminated with vinegar so I threw the Anubias out
<?>
I tested the water and it came back with about 3 nitrate so just incase it was from that I did a 40% water change and added prime But today I noticed he isn't eating and has a hollowed stomach basically I think he is starving to death
I fed them and he didn't eat
None of my other fish are affected (rainbow shark,
<This fish is often a bully of others...>
 guppy, 6 Kuhli loaches)
What do I do? has he got a internal parasite or some incurable illness?
He seems weak and keeps resting on things..
ammonia is 0, nitrite is 0, ph is about 7.6
nitrate WAS 3 now its probably half since I did that water change The tank has been cycled for a long time
What could he possibly have and how do I treat it? I don' think he will last long?
<Mmm, can't tell w/ the information presented... Read here:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/GupDisF7.htm
and the linked files above>
I think maybe an internal parasite or gill infection or swim bladder virus just something that causes them not to eat and to not swim around much I am so worried :(
<No need/use... Read, consider the possibilities you learn about. Bob Fenner>
Re: Hi, my guppy is starving, what do I do, I think he is going to die?     3/7/13
He died :(
I'm watching the other fish
the shark never picked on the guppies
<... have you read where you were referred? BobF>
Re: Hi, my guppy is starving, what do I do, I think he is going to die?     3/7/13
I read all the posts in the link you gave me, i can't find anything similar to what happened to my guppy.
The tank is 55 gallons and has been cycled for 6 going on 7 years (2 of the Kuhlis and the shark are about 6-7 years old and the other 4 Kuhlis are younger, I also suspect 2 extra Kuhlis may be in one of my filters but anyway).
There were no odd feces or anything, just gasping at the top then slow lethargic swimming then not eating.
No visible marks on the body, a bit of color loss
<Perhaps "something" internal... senescence (cumulative genetic defects... old age; how old are these guppies?)>
Now my remaining guppy is being a bit jumpy and when I fed the fish I didn't see him eat, of course he may eat later over night but I am not sure if this Is just jumpiness from being the only guppy or if he has the same as what the other guppy had.
I don't think its a good idea to add more guppies until at-least a few weeks of monitoring this one for symptoms.
What do you think?
<Agreed>
Thanks Bob :)
<Welcome. Sarah. B>
Re: Hi, my guppy is starving, what do I do, I think he is going to die?     3/8/13
Thanks for your fast reply Bob,
<Welcome>
It seemed a bit sudden to be old age?
<Mmm, no; not really... deaths from such do occur w/o notice in wild animals quite often. It's sometimes said/stated that they "have to put on a good face" to avoid predators/predation... that "letting on" re poor health signals that one is an easy/easier target>
When I got them I suspect they had just reached adult hood?
<Yes... often sold at 4-6 mo.s of age... grown up quickly by numerous feedings, constant water changes... only live a couple/three years>
knowing breeders?(but I don't know for sure) and they were from a 'pet shop', so anywhere from 3 months to 5 months old I suspect and I have actually had the guppies for 4 months
<Oh! Then should have lived longer>
I specifically picked him out at the pet shop, he was my favorite :( :/
sigh
Is this usual for guppies? or a rare occurrence? because it kind of put/s me off them,
Which is sad considering I always wanted to have them, then when I finally do he dies...
<Guppies do "die mysteriously" for the most part... And livebearers (Poeciliids in this case) nowayears are not nearly as tough/hardy as they were decades back unfortunately. Perhaps Platies would be a better choice for you. BobF>
Re: Hi, my guppy is starving, what do I do, I think he is going to die? 3/8/13
Thanks for your fast reply Bob,
<Welcome>
It seemed a bit sudden to be old age?
<Mmm, no; not really... deaths from such do occur w/o notice in wild animals quite often. It's sometimes said/stated that they "have to put on a good face" to avoid predators/predation... that "letting on" re poor health signals that one is an easy/easier target>
When I got them I suspect they had just reached adult hood?
<Yes... often sold at 4-6 mo.s of age... grown up quickly by numerous feedings, constant water changes... only live a couple/three years>
knowing breeders?(but I don't know for sure) and they were from a 'pet shop', so anywhere from 3 months to 5 months old I suspect and I have actually had the guppies for 4 months
<Oh! Then should have lived longer>
I specifically picked him out at the pet shop, he was my favorite :( :/ sigh
Is this usual for guppies? or a rare occurrence? because it kind of put/s me off them,
Which is sad considering I always wanted to have them, then when I finally do he dies...
<Guppies do "die mysteriously" for the most part... And livebearers (Poeciliids in this case) nowayears are not nearly as tough/hardy as they were decades back unfortunately. Perhaps Platies would be a better choice for you. BobF>
Re Hi, my guppy is starving, what do I do, I think he is going to die?     5/3/13
Hi again...
He died so I got new ones but now. Everything seemed to be fine. I got the guppies about 4 days ago, the tank has been cycled for a long time. The water has no ammonia or anything and i got new guppies and one died it has a really red gill and fat stomach some of the others have reddish gills and are a bit bloated; what should I do? :(
I'm scared this is going to wipe my whole tank out..
Thanks :(
<As Bob said before, farmed Guppies and Mollies are much less hardy nowadays that they were in the past (or are in the wild). Keeping in slightly brackish water, around a teaspoon of marine salt mix per 3-4 litres/1 US gallon makes a big difference. Obviously this won't suit other species, so choose tankmates accordingly (much to be said for keeping Guppies and Mollies in single-species set-ups). Mycobacterial infections seem ubiquitous; abdominal swelling, bloody sores on the flanks, and general emaciation/failure to thrive are common symptoms. Best advice: choose some other species if "easy to keep" matters to you… X-ray Tetras, Zebra Danios, Bronze Corydoras, Bristlenose Catfish all the fit the bill and can do well in tanks from 15 gallons upwards. Cheers, Neale.>
Re: Hi, my guppy is starving, what do I do, I think he is going to die?   5/3/13
Hi Neale thanks for your fast reply, I dosed using PimaFix do you think it might save the rest?
<Wouldn't bank on it. Pimafix, Melafix, and other "herbal" cures are at best preventatives, and likely do little/nothing to cure established diseases. Some, like Bob, actually feel they cause more problems than they solve. In any event, Wasting-type diseases such as Mycobacteriosis are very difficult to cure even with real, medically-testing medications, let alone Pimafix, Melafix and the like. Better to understand the background to Wasting diseases (poor stock to begin with, and/or failures in care, such as overstocking, diet, wrong water chemistry). Then you can prevent or avoid the problem through better choices, planning and execution. Cheers, Neale.>
Re: Hi, my guppy is starving, what do I do, I think he is going to die?     5/4/13
Hi again Neale
<G'day Sarah,>
Yes I heard it is fairly weak in terms of a medication so I picked up some tetracycline today and some stress zyme in-case it puts my tank back into cycling. I also have prime to protect the fish from the ammonia if it does cycle again. I also have some stress coat too. Would that help to clear it up, should I dose it right now?
<I'd be leery of overmedicating. Do remember any/all medications tend to be poisons at some level (it's the dose that differentiates between "beneficial" and "lethal") and the interactions between any two medications is virtually never tested, so what happens when you mix medications is unpredictable. If a fish is basically okay, feeding and responding to the medication you're using, I'd recommend finishing off that course of medication (as described by the manufacturer) before switching to another course of medications, and even then, I'd wait a few days between them to see if the fish is recovering under its own steam anyway. With all this said, Tetracycline is an antibiotic and should be tolerably safe, though its effects on the filter bacteria may be undesirable (it does, after all, kill bacteria) and Stress Coat is pretty mild stuff, not really a medication so much as "ointment" for fish like you'd rub onto a child's cut or graze, and about as useful (i.e., you wouldn't use an ointment to deal with gangrene or tuberculosis!). Prime is a water conditioner rather than a medication, and should be safe to use during all water changes.>
Also tomorrow I have to go down to the place where I got the fish with a water sample to prove the water quality is all right. Would adding the tetracycline cause an immediate ammonia spike?
It says on the bottle if it is used for a while it will cause it, so it won't cause it immediately?
<It's really difficult to predict, but yes, it can (though often doesn't) kill filter bacteria, so act/plan accordingly. If you have another aquarium then chances are you can take some live filter media from that tank's filter and put in into the filter in this aquarium, assuming the two filters are more or less compatible. Alternatively, have some zeolite ("ammonia remover" filter media) to hand and stuff into a simple box or canister filter, and use this during the period of medication. Generally, be prepared to replace this every 2-3 days, depending on the amount used and the messiness of the fish being treated.>
Just wondering since the place I got the fish obviously wouldn't refund if I have ammonia (even if caused by antibiotics, probably).
<Understandable, they'd go out of business if they did! Seriously, nine-tenths of the premature fish deaths in the hobby are caused by poor water quality.>
The fish are still all alive, they don't look like they are 'dying' per say. But then again neither did the other guppy that died. Particularly.
<Quite so.>
Thanks again Neale
<Most welcome, Neale.>
Re: Hi, my guppy is starving, what do I do, I think he is going to die?     5/5/13
Thanks for your reply Neale,
<Welcome.>
I added tetracycline yesterday and been treating with prime incase the ammonia rises.
<Ah, do understand that Prime will do little/nothing to prevent ammonia poisoning. Big source of confusion here among aquarists. Prime (and other "ammonia removers") neutralise ammonia in tap water, either directly or via the breakdown of chloramine to chlorine + ammonia. What Prime and others don't do is neutralise ammonia produced in real time by respiring, excreting aquarium fish. May have some slight positive benefit I suppose in the hours after a water change, but the Prime is otherwise used up, metabolised by the filter bacteria.>
It hasn't so far even though when I took it to the store i got it from, they said i had ammonia. I actually bought a new test kit and tested and compared it with tap water and it was identical so they must have contaminated their sample by not washing the tube out properly.
<Or your tap water contains ammonia and/or chloramine; I find nitrite test kits infinitely more useful, being less likely to report false positives (from the chloramine). Ammonia is, of course, toxic whether it comes from the tap water or your fish, but most modern water conditioners neutralise tap water ammonia; what's added subsequently by your fish is where your filter steps in and earns its keep.>
I am kind of worried that the ammonia will rise too high to be treated with prime, since it only detoxifies like 1ppm.
<Lethal.>
I don't want to mess with the filter though so is there anything else I could do /add that will make it lower?
<Filtering through zeolite is the best, in fact only way to reliably remove ammonia without using bacteria. Everything else is just a waste of money.>
I added beneficial bacteria to help (stress zyme) and a little of stress coat. None have died, which is good
Sarah
<Cheers, Neale.>
Re: Hi, my guppy is starving, what do I do, I think he is going to die?     5/21/13
Hi again Neale
<Sarah,>
I cured that guppy.
<Well done!>
A lot has happened since the last email, 5 fish were looking bad including the one I cured which showed some signs of something wrong. Signs: Odd coloration/goldishwhiteness, random holes in fins, fin rot and splits, extra respiration and some reddened gills, lethargicness
<Ah, yes, does sound bad… in the case of Guppies, do check water chemistry (should be hard and alkaline -- 10+ degrees dH, pH 7-8); up the temperature (to around 26-28 C); add a little salt if possible (1 teaspoon per US gallon is a good start). These will perk up Guppies if they're merely unhappy with ambient conditions. It's also a good idea to think about opportunistic bacterial infections, some of which are treatable.>
So surprisingly I gave the fish to the fish 'expert' guy where I got them from and basically he said they would live. I said they need treatment asap or they will die. Anyway I followed up a week later and he told me they ALL died except one.
<Oh.>
Now 3 in my tank were looking odd, 2 with all those symptoms and 1 with just some. I took them into a quarantine tank and have been battling to keep the ammonia under check and treat. Needless to say the Tetracycline treatment didn't work, well at least not on these. Ich treatment didn't work. I am starting to think it is Columnaris disease and I am going to get Methylene blue or potassium permanganate tomorrow to do a bath with them. How do I do this exactly? how much parts water to how much parts of one or the other? and for how long?
<I would recommend neither medication. Methylene Blue is a mild anti-fungal more than anything else; it's used in breeding tanks for example to keep eggs from going mouldy. Problem is that Columnaris isn't a fungus. As for Potassium Permanganate, it's toxic stuff, nasty to you, your fish and your filter.>
They are all looking slow and bad, one has been going through periods of corkscrewing, i tried the pea method but it doesn't seem to be working… I really don't think these guys have much time left at all. So tomorrow fingers crossed I can get that stuff I can give it a try. Hopefully that doesn't mean sacrificing a uni lecture. Its either that or waiting till after 10pm to treat them...
<I'd review water conditions as outlined above, and then use a broad spectrum antibiotic, such as the classic Maracyn 1 and 2 combination. As ever, give your aquarium a decent clean and water change before using it, and then remove carbon from the filter (if used).>
So really hope they hold out. My loaches have been swimming around a lot and respirating more than usual.
<These definitely wouldn't like the Potassium Permanganate!>
Had a big disaster in the morning where the tank temperature plummeted to 13 degrees Celsius because someone fiddled with the power point but it got back up slowly and they seem to be ok but I'm worried they might have it. If they do, how can I treat them in the main tank?
<Loaches should perk back from brief exposure to chilling without any further medication.>
Thanks so much ah I hope they all live
<Hope this helps, Neale.>
Re: Hi, my guppy is starving, what do I do, I think he is going to die?     5/21/13
Thanks for your fast reply Neale
<Welcome.>
Unfortunately I hadn't got your email yet and was desperate to try something on my fish so I got the permanganate and did it in a bucket. They still don't look good and obviously didn't like the potassium permanganate bath.
<I bet.>
Thing is I don't know if I can get Maracyn in Australia. If this doesn't work, and they are still alive I will try it.
<Maracyn is only sold in the US over the counter… in most other countries antibiotics are prescription only. A vet can supply equivalents -- Maracyn 1 is Erythromycin, Maracyn 2 is Minocycline. But there are often non-antibiotic antibacterial medications sold as alternatives. Here in the UK, a typical product is eSHa 2000 that works well against external bacterial infections. Do consult your local retailer, and ask for good quality anti-Finrot medications if the problem is with the fins, scales or skin; avoid products based on tea-tree oil and suchlike as these tend to better used to prevent infections than to treat acute infections.>
I also called the fish guy at the pet shop back up to tell him what is going on and ask about my fish and he said it died too... Said it was looking fine then just died... hmm. Good news is the guppies in my main tank look ok so far. One a tiny bit fat though, loaches are fine and back to their hiding selves. My water is relatively hard. I don't know about salt, the pet shop guy put salt in with the others and they all died so hmm.
<In and of itself, salt, if used correctly, will NEVER do your Guppies harm; Guppies positively thrive in low-end brackish conditions! Something like 5-6 grams per litre of marine salt mix in a freshwater aquarium creates low-end brackish conditions than Guppies (and Mollies) adore, often doing better than in freshwater conditions. Loaches, on the other hand, dislike saline conditions, so should not be exposed to such conditions.>
Sarah
<Cheers, Neale.>
Re: Hi, my guppy is starving, what do I do, I think he is going to die?    6/29/13
Hi again Neale,
now for an update, 2 of the guppies died and one actually lived and is now fully healed in my 55 gallon aquarium.
<Good.>
5 total guppies lived out of the 14 i had,
<Sadly not uncommon with Guppies these days.>
and my shark and all my Kuhlis lived and my peppermint Pleco.
<I see.>
I believe they had an internal parasite, since they are all ok now (no more deaths) after i dipped the 5 guppies in potassium permanganate then a bit later treated the whole aquarium with Praziquantel for 2 weeks. One does have a split in his fin, so i believe there may still be a mild bacterial infection (fin rot) in the tank. I'm wondering how should I treat that? and should i treat the whole aquarium? or just the individual?
<Either. Any good Finrot remedy can be used; most are safe with filter bacteria but check the packaging. Treating in a hospital tank is fine because Finrot isn't "catchy" so you don't need to treat all the fish.>
also one of the other guppies has slight light patches in spots of his tail, not sure what it is? any ideas on how to treat?
<Would treat as incipient Finrot and act accordingly.>
I have now unfortunately gotten myself involved in my boyfriends mothers problems with her fish tank. The filter stopped working and she just left it for i don't know how long, without a filter. I went over his house and saw the fish and it is very swollen and has cloudy eyes (it is a cichlid or ram) and doesn't move much, it just was kind of staying somewhat tilted
near the glass. So after some instruction, i got my boyfriend to change 100% of the water and order a hang over filter which should be on its way.
He also added some Epsom salt. But now I don't know how the fish can be treated and how we can do so cheaply, because his mum doesn't have much money and well basically would rather ignore it and wait till it dies then shove a bunch of new fish in. Which i am against.
<I bet.>
So anyway I really think it has some kind of bacterial infection and maybe internal parasites but I'm not sure how to treat it. Praziquantel
<Specifically treats worms, nothing else, so not much use for most internal parasites.>
and just a broad spectrum antibiotic? or tetracycline?
<Antibiotics treat bacterial infections, but no antibiotic treats all bacterial infections. Without information on what's in the tank, the water chemistry, the sickly species involved, and ideally a photo, it's hard to recommend anything specific. Would assume it's an opportunistic bacterial infection (like Finrot) and treat thusly.>
Also the tank is not cycled so what can be put in/done to make sure there is no ammonia?
<You can't "add" anything to a tank to make ammonia go away. Zeolite may be used in lieu of biological filtration, but you need a fair amount, and it needs to be replaced every few days (hence zeolite is primarily of use with small fish and/or short-term situations like hospital tanks).>
I don't think large water changes can be an option because there would be medication in there and it would need to be topped up every time right?
<If you need to medicate (say) 8 PM one day, but do a daily water change 7:30 PM, then you should be fine. Most medications work for about a day before being completely absorbed and metabolised by the filter bacteria and others, so provided you leave the medication in there for 23 hours or so, daily water changes aren't a major problem.>
It's a tricky situation, also the tank is about 30 gallons.
Thanks Neale :)
<Good luck, Neale.>
Re: Hi, my guppy is starving, what do I do, I think he is going to die?    6/29/13
Awwwe don't worry about the last part of the previous message, the cichlid/ram died how sad :(
it didn't even get to receive medication yet how could that family not notice its condition -.-
<Too bad. Yes, it's often a wonder why people get pets when their desire to maintain them is minimal. Let's hope the Boyf. appreciates your better intentions and experiences. Cheers, Neale.>