Re: Raiw Cichlids: Now back to the blather re loach stkg./sel.       2/3/15
Neale, I want you to know how appreciative I am to you for all your help and patience with me. I don't mean to be a pain. God bless you!!
<Thank you.>
I do have one more issue I just thought of. I have been doing research on loaches lately. I have considered getting several to keep my sand stirred up (which is less than 2 inches) to keep anaerobic areas from building up.
<Meh.>
But all I read about seem to need soft water and low pH. My pH is about 8 here.
<Not ideal for most tropical loaches. Horseface Loaches would be one option though. They do well in hard water, all else being right. Their great speed is an asset too.>
I haven't checked my hardness. Do you feel loaches are necessary or should I just use my hand periodically to stir up the sand?
<The latter works fine.>
I love Corys but I know they do not sift the sand.
<If you have sand, then yes, all but the smallest Corydoras will dig their heads right into the sand, spewing it out through their gills. Plenty good enough for keeping the uppermost layer of sand clean.>
Thank you again.. James
<Most welcome.>

Yoyo loaches becoming friends with a zebra loach? And also, company for Kuhlis? 3/4/11
Hi! I've just found this excellent website and would love to get some advice about my loaches. Have looked in the archives but to my knowledge nobody has asked this question before so here we go:
<Ok!>
When I first set up my aquarium I was persuaded by the LFS to buy a (one) zebra loach for the tank to keep any snails at bay.
<Mmm, like most Cobitids, social animals>
He seemed to be doing the job as I've never had an infestation yet, but he also hid away all the time.
Sometimes I didn't see him for days on end and if I did he'd very quickly scurry away again when he noticed my presence. So, very skitty and scared. It was only months later that I realised that they like to be in groups, and I only noticed this after I'd bought a couple of yoyo loaches and one (again, one!) Kuhli
loach. The yoyos seemed happy enough - really gregarious and getting on great.
The Kuhli immediately hid away not to be seen for weeks (I thought he'd been eaten before he suddenly popped up again). I was a bit worried when I realised what I'd done by just buying one of the zebras and the Kuhli, because I have a 250l tank that is basically fully stocked already (with Danios, Platies, guppies,
a frog and a couple of Corys). Still, I was willing to go to get at least a couple of zebra and Kuhlis to make sure they didn't remain totally traumatized by their enforced solitude. Went to the fish shop and got a couple of Kuhlis that weren't stripy but which were, so I was told, the same species (like for example Platies in different colours are).
<Might be, might not>
Again, they get on great together, but it's not done anything for the striped Kuhli, making me think that they
are not the same species after all. So now I've actually added to my problem because I'm rapidly running out of space in the tank. So my first question is - should I go and get more Kuhlis to give them all a chance as separate species?
<I'd just wait, be patient for now>
My second question concerns my zebra loach. As I said, he didn't mix at all with the yoyos, initially, but in the last week or so he's suddenly emerged from his hiding place and seems to swim and interact with them all the time. Is he accepting them as company?
<Appears to be>
Does this mean that he will be OK with the yoyos for company and doesn't need more of his own type?
<Likely so>
Or is this stressing him out more?
<Not really>
Sorry for the long email - ideally I would of course just go out to buy 4 more of each species, but as it is that would totally overpopulate my tank I think so I'm hoping that maybe I can at least have the zebra and the yoyos as a team?
Maybe the striped Kuhli will come round to the idea of having non-stripy mates too?!
<Probable>
I'd be grateful for any advice you may have
<Welcome. Bob Fenner>

Loach Barb Danio Compatibility / Environment   3/6/10
Awesome Crew @ WWM;
<Hello,>
I have a 36 gallon aquarium 30Lx22Hx16D awaiting new residents, just completed cycling.
<Great. Now, a tank 30 inches long is somewhat short for the larger Danio species, so be careful when shopping. Danio rerio-sized species would be fine, but Devario aequipinnatus-sized things would feel very cramped.>
I've done some research on-line on compatibility and conditions to stock it properly, however, I'm hoping you can give me your expert opinion. There seems to be a lot of variation from one site to the next.
<Fire away.>
Water planned to be maintained at 78F (26C).
<Very slightly on the warm side for Danios; in general, these fish prefer somewhat cool conditions, in part because they're upland rather than lowland fish, but also because they're sensitive to stuffy, oxygen-poor water.>
pH comes out of the faucet @ 7.6, however, I've been maintaining it @ 7.0 based upon the fish I want.
<What I'm concerned about is you mention only pH, which is largely irrelevant, but not hardness, which is crucial. If you said you were mixing 50% hard tap water with 50% RO water, I'd say that was a brilliant idea.
That's how I keep most of my fish. But you said you're controlling pH, and this sets my mind to thinking you're adding pH buffer potions to the water.
This is a terrible idea because it [a] does nothing useful for your fish; and [b] creates an environment with a potentially unstable pH level. Do not, repeat DO NOT, use pH potions alone to change the pH of water. This is a total misunderstanding of water chemistry. Some magazines, like TFH, actually avoid articles that discuss mentioning water chemistry changes precisely because of this, because too many people add pH buffers without understanding what they're for. In summary, you add a pH buffer AFTER you've softened water, to make sure the pH stays stable between water changes. If you haven't softened the water, then you don't need, and shouldn't use, a pH buffer.>
Based on compatibility charts I've come across loaches, barbs & Danios should be good together. Temperament & Environment.
Loaches pH 6.0-7.5, temp: 72-86
Barbs pH 6.0-7.0, temp: 74-79
Danios pH 6.5-7.5, temp: 73-79
<OK.>
I'm hoping a pH of 7.0 and temp of 78 is able to maintain these three species?
<What "species" are we talking about? Not all loaches are happy across this temperature range. There are plenty of loaches that cannot be kept as warm as 30C/86 F. Many are like Danios, and prefer things a little cooler than average. Likewise, Barbs range from coldwater species (like Rosy barbs) that do better in unheated tanks through to species that appreciate warmth, like Tiger Barbs. So again, what species?>
Would it be possible to acclimate the barbs to the pH of 7.6 out of the tap or should I keep maintaining via pH buffers to 7.0?
<Depends.>
I would like Loaches on the bottom. Is 6 too many? Quantity suggested for this size tank? Either Angelicus, Yo-Yo or Queen. They recommend groups of 5+. Do they all have to be the same type of Loach or can I mix the types I listed here, say 2 of each kind?
<Has to be five of any one species. Best not to mix species, since differences in aggression levels can lead to bullying.>
I would like Barbs as well. Is 6 too many?
<No; it's the minimum number per species.>
12?
<Sure.>
Quantity suggested for this size tank?
<Depends on the species being kept. 10-12 Tiger Barb-sized barbs would be fine in this tank.>
I would like either Eight-Banded, Green Tiger, Gold or Tiger. Maybe 3 each of 3 kinds? Do they all have to be the same type of Barb or can I mix the types I listed here?
<At least six per species, ideally more if you want to avoid nipping.>
I would like Danios for the top. I was think about 12? Too much?
<Again, depends on their size, and how many other tankmates. Your aquarium is relatively small, 36 gallons/136 litres. So you have to be careful. Even if you had, let's say, six Tiger Barbs, six Zebra Danios, and five Yo-yo loaches, that'd be an overcrowded tank. I don't much like the "inch per gallon" rule because, basically, it sucks, but let's use it for a moment.
Six tiger barbs at a bit over 2 inches a piece, that's at least 12 inches there. Zebra Danios, just under 2 inches each, so another 12 inches. Yo-yo loaches are around 5 inches long each, so five of them would be 25 inches.
Add that together and you have 12 + 12 + 25 = 49 inches, in a 36 gallon tank. You're overstocked even with this fairly crummy rule.>
I would like some Inlecypris auropurpurea "Lake Inle" and Green-Barred, maybe a few Glo. Compatible?
<I think you need to choose which species you want, and choose one. In all likelihood, best results will come from a single school of one type of Danio. Unless they're in adequate numbers they won't school and they often become either shy or bullies, which is pointless. So get at least six, and ideally more. It sounds like you're more interested in "stamp collecting", i.e., keeping one of every fish you've seen, and while that sounds fun, it's actually pointless. You'll never keep all the fish you want, and if the fish you do have look frightened or annoy the other fish they're kept with, you won't get any fun from them. So choose a species, perhaps something like Inlecypris auropurpurea that isn't widely kept, and then create the aquarium around its needs. This is a fairly cool water species, 24 C/75 F being ideal. Rather than loaches, which tend to be too big to keep easily, why not keep one of the Corydoras species alongside it? Most Corydoras appreciate cool water, and they're so much smaller than loaches.
You could easily keep eight Inlecypris auropurpurea and six Corydoras julii, for example, and still have a bit of space left over for some Cherry Shrimps and Nerite Snails! With a sandy substrate, some plants and a few bits of rockwork, that'd be a great little system.>
What would be the best order to stock? Once species at a time or a few of each species every couple of weeks?
<If the tank is cycled, I'd add the Danios first, as a group. After a couple of weeks, I'd then add the Corydoras.>
Is there any other species that might be a better compatibility in this tank that I am not familiar with?
Thanks so much - John
<Cheers, Neale.>

YoYo Loaches 05/21/09
Hello Crew, I have a question, please. I bought a yo-yo loach today to help with my snail problem.
<It probably won't help.>
The owner of the LFS said it was fine to keep them singularly, but I want to ask you if that is true or if I need to have more, and is so, how many?
<Five or six is the minimum.>
Are these type of loaches fairly peaceful or will they be aggressive at feeding time?
<Although not usually aggressive to other fish directly, they are extremely aggressive feeders, and can't be mixed with anything "slow" at feeding time: spiny eels, small Corydoras, whiptail catfish, etc.>
Thanks, James
<Cheers, Neale.>

FW 20 gal tall stocking question: snail remediation solution 3/18/09
Hi! I've learned invaluable things from your site but need to be some confirmation or redirection regarding my tank.
<Oh?>
I have a 20 gal tall FW, artificially planted, smaller substrate gravel w/ several drift wood pieces, double hang-on-back filters (each rated for 20 gal). Water parameters are ammon: 0, Nitrite: 0, and Nitrate 10. Ph 7.8+ due to municipal water source. Tank is kept at 78 degrees F.
<Sounds nice.>
Current stock: 1 bristle nose Pleco, 10 glass fish. I will be adopting an unaggressive female three-spot Gourami in another week and have already provided a dedicated cave for her (on opposite side of tank from the Pleco's preferred cave).
<Hmm... like children, fish often want to play with the SAME cave, even if there are caves to go around!>
I also, unfortunately, am now the not-so-happy owner of unwanted pond snails (most likely came in with the last add of glass fish). I've already removed a dozen or so and yet babies are cropping up all over! I read that Botia sid dwarf loaches are an excellent natural solution to this problem.
I know I don't have room for FIVE as suggested, but have read others have kept them in happy groups of three. Do you think I have room in my tank for three? I need a snail remediation solution, but don't want to disrupt my currently peaceful tank.
<Yasuhikotakia sidthimunki (formerly Botia sidthimunki) is a schooling fish, so keeping a single specimen isn't fair. They're intensely gregarious, and even in groups of six look pretty forlorn. To be honest, the idea of choosing a fish for snail control rarely works in practise.
Puffers and Loaches will eat snails when they're hungry, but they cause problems of their own. Loaches tend to be aggressive and sometimes bully other fish, while Puffers are often territorial and frequently nippy, even
putting aside the fact some of the species sold need brackish water. By far the best control for snails is manual labour. Begin by keeping snails out, for example by dipping new plants in an off-the-shelf snail-killing potion for a few minutes. Secondly, kill any snails you see on sight. Squish them, and leave your catfish or whatever to clean up the corpses. Thirdly, make life difficult for your snails: keep the tank clean, and in particular remove uneaten food. Finally, consider adding a predatory snail or two.
Clea helena (sometimes called Anentome helena) are sold as "Assassin Snails" quite widely now, at least here in the UK. They're attractive animals that get to about an inch in length and are prettily marked with
yellow and brown. They eat snails, but don't eat plants. While they do breed, they breed so slowly that they're unlikely to cause problems. Worst case, you remove any you see. They're amazing little snail-eaters, and though their impact is slow, it is substantial in the long term. You end up with a balance of predators and prey, and the snails stop being a major problem.>
As always, thanks for your thoughts and support!!!
Kristi
<Cheers, Neale.>

Re: FW 20 gal tall stocking question: snail remediation solution 3/18/09
Neale,
Just to clarify, you say not to add a SINGLE sidmunk (Botia sidthimunki), but I asked about adding a small group of three (knowing they are best with buddies).
<Yes, I caught this. My point was you shouldn't keep them in groups of less than six, and ideally twice that number. They really are nervous animals kept in too-small a group, by which I mean they're skittish and prone to "unexplained" deaths.>
Aside from this, though, it doesn't sound like an over-stocking issue to add these but rather an action that may create a rather aggressive tank.
Did I read your reply right?
<Precisely. While Yasuhikotakia sidthimunki isn't particularly aggressive (far from it in fact) most of the loaches big enough to actually deal with a snail problem tend to be more trouble than their worth: Clown loaches, Skunk Botia, etc.>
I did reading on the Assassin Snails - doesn't appear to be common here in the U.S. I think I'll just crush them as you suggest and hope for the best. I've already scaled back on food for the tank, so don't know how much I can change that. My daily feeding habits for the tank are: AM: small amount of flake and PM: 1/2 small block of bloodworms OR 1/2 small square of brine shrimp with an algae wafer for the Pleco every once in a while).
Any changes suggested in my feeding given my livestock and the snail problem?
<Nope. Sounds fine. A certain number of snails are good. They're like earthworms, keeping the substrate aerated. Vast populations of snails, on the other hand, tend to come about through chronic overfeeding and/or under-cleaning.>
And - I will repeat over and over - THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!
<There's also a little device called a "limcollect" from JBL. It catches snails. Or is supposed to, anyway. My unit never seemed to catch any at all! May depend on the snail species in question. On the other hand, the
tank with Assassin Snails would be snail-free if I didn't deliberately add more (small) snails to keep them well fed.>
Kristi
<Cheers, Neale.>

Loach question in planted tank Hey all great website, since I found it a few weeks ago I've spent hours reading and learning..... anyways on to my question.  I'm getting ready to start my first live plant tank.  I have a 30 gallon "tall" tank and plan on using only an outside filtration system (an emperor 400 I believe the model is).  I've read on your site about snail infestations resulting from newly acquired live plants.  I do not have room in my place for a smaller quarantine tank so I need to find an alternative method of snail control.  I've read on your site about using loaches to control the problem.  I plan on using some floating plants as well as rooted ones and having cardinal tetras as well as some other small tropicals and I was wondering what type of loach you would recommend for my tank.  some species of loach seem to get rather large and I would be worried about losing small fish such as cardinal tetras to these fish.  any input would be greatly appreciated, thanks! Ben K <Hey Ben, maybe a dwarf loach? Botia sidthmunki. Check out the link below, lots of good snail info here http://www.wetwebmedia.com/PlantedTksSubWebIndex/snailsags.htm Best Regards, Gage>

Dojo Loach Question... sel.   7/24/06 Hello, <Hi there> I have a 25 gallon tank with 3 goldfish and I want to get a dojo loach. However, I am not sure as to whether I should get one or two. <Mmm, could have two... and they are more active... more outgoing/comical with more than one... are social animals...> I read that they like to have another one of their kind, but I also don't want to overcrowd. <Mmm, well, this 25 will be overcrowded in time with just the three goldfish...> Another thing is that I have underground filtering. I know the dojo likes to burrow... I'm not sure how underground filtering works, will it get sucked up?   -Ashley <Not sucked up, but can scoot down the "stand-pipes" and live underneath the plates... A good idea to look into having some outside power filter redundancy here: http://wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/gldfshsystems.htm Enjoy those Dojos! Bob Fenner>

Locating Gold Dojo Loaches hi Robert, <<Bob has gone diving, JasonC here standing in.>> my name is Jim Brilliant and I want to know if you could help me find these loaches and who sells them. I would like to purchase many gold dojo loaches and albino's, too. thank you for any assistance you can provide <<I would try a couple of things, one check our discussion forum which has a diverse group of kind folk who just might have the answer. http://talk.wetwebfotos.com/  I would also use Google or your favorite search engine and just pop that subject in there "gold dojo loaches" - I just did and it turned up four pages of possibilities. The Internet is your oyster. Cheers, J -- >>

Loach question in planted tank Hey all great website, since I found it a few weeks ago I've spent hours reading and learning..... anyways on to my question.  I'm getting ready to start my first live plant tank.  I have a 30 gallon "tall" tank and plan on using only an outside filtration system (an emperor 400 I believe the model is).  I've read on your site about snail infestations resulting from newly acquired live plants.  I do not have room in my place for a smaller quarantine tank so I need to find an alternative method of snail control.  I've read on your site about using loaches to control the problem.  I plan on using some floating plants as well as rooted ones and having cardinal tetras as well as some other small tropicals and I was wondering what type of loach you would recommend for my tank.  some species of loach seem to get rather large and I would be worried about losing small fish such as cardinal tetras to these fish.  any input would be greatly appreciated, thanks! Ben K <Hey Ben, maybe a dwarf loach? Botia sidthmunki. Check out the link below, lots of good snail info here http://www.wetwebmedia.com/PlantedTksSubWebIndex/snailsags.htm Best Regards, Gage>

Lookin' for Loaches Hey guys, first thanks for all the great info on this site. It has saved a lot of headaches so far. I have a 25 gallon tank that just finished cycling. I have 3 Serpae Tetras and 2 Zebra Danios. I have a fine sand substrate and I am looking for a fish to add that would help stir up the bottom of the tank a little. The LFS recommended a Clown Loach but that advice I'm not sold on since I've heard they can grow to 12 inches.  Thanks for any ideas. <And indeed they can!  There are so, so many options available for you.  Any of the smaller loaches, Botia striata, Botia dario, Botia lohachata....  Kuhli loaches.... soooo many loaches out there!  Also Corydoras cats.  http://www.loaches.com  is a nice place to start looking at loach options, and you can find loads of info on cats of the genus Corydoras at http://www.planetcatfish.com - as well as on the WetWeb site and FAQs.  I would like to mention that loaches and Corys are scaleless, and that you might want to keep an eye on them to see if they react poorly to the sand if it is at all sharp.  Also, please be sure to keep loaches or Corys in groups of three or more, as they are schooling fish.  -Sabrina>

White cloud with growing black markings Evening all, <Good evening, Rosa!  Sabrina here tonight> You've always been helpful and on target in the past and after doing a lot of searching, with no answers, thought you might come to the rescue, yet again... <Thank you for the kind words - and we'll sure try> I have a question about white cloud minnows- I have had 2 for about a year now, they are yellow and white, with black specks and markings.  Hearty, fun, and social.  They share a planted tank (15 gallon fresh) with some Otos, harlequin Rasboras and cherry barbs.  Recently I added 3 clowns to fish tank who at first were pretty dominant and stressed out other fish for a while- now they are all alright with each other and the clowns sit at bottom of tank, or hang out in driftwood, and leave other fish alone. <I assume you mean clown loaches?  Clown loaches get enormous, over time.  You might want to consider a smaller loach species, or plan on upgrading tank size eventually.  At least clown loaches are very slow growers, so you're okay for now.> Soon after all this I noticed that the markings on one of my white clouds were getting darker- the black specks were getting deeper in color and actually bigger. Nothing else wrong with fish, no ich or anything like that- just that its original black specks - actually one in particular on its back- is just a lot longer.  The fish is fine- eats, hangs out with other fish, but I wondered about this.  Is there some kind of skin disease or perhaps stress, or maybe just 'normal'- perhaps markings just increase with age? <It's hard to tell without seeing the fish; if there's any way you could get us a picture, that'd be great.  Otherwise, do a Google search on their Latin name, Tanichthys albonubes, and compare yours with pictures of others; that may at least help you to see if the coloration is normal or not.> If you could help me out here I'd appreciate it- I'm always checking on this fish and just a bit worried- would like to know that it's nothing- or, if it is something, what I should do.  Thanks,  Rosa Haritos White cloud with growing black markings - part II Hi Sabrina- thanks for response. <No prob.> I'm actually going to SF, CA for business trip tomorrow and I won't be back until 25th- I CAN send a photo of fish and will, when I get back. <Ah, welcome to my neck of the world.> Haven't found ANYTHING using Latin Name- tried it-- just pix of Ich's disease- and I know it's not that. <Try this:   http://images.google.com/images?q=Tanichthys+albonubes&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en&btnG=Google+Search .  Should give you lots of pics of White Clouds.> Yup, clown loaches. It was actually someone at WetWeb who told me they are great snail eaters- and they get big, but as you say, slowly. So I bought 3 - so they wouldn't be lonely, and GUESS WHAT- no way did they eat snails!! <Now THAT is stunning.  I've NEVER seen a clown loach turn its nose up at snails!!  It might just be that they needed some time to settle in, first; also, don't feed them other food for a few days, and they should dig right in.> Even when I crushed them and put then right next to them--so I had to pick at snails for a whole week to get rid of an infestation. I asked LFS and they said they would exchange for zebra loach- which is suppose to be more aggressive re snails, but peaceful for the tank--and smaller. <Well, smaller, yes; but I think these have pretty much the same temperament as clown loaches.  Mine certainly do, anyway.  And though they certainly chow down on snails (took all of two weeks for three zebra loaches in my 72g to rid me of all my snails), clown loaches are reportedly much better snail eradicators.> BUT my son, who is 6, fell in love with these fish and pleaded not to trade em. so I'm stuck. <Heh, at least you're stuck with a nice type of fish!> Thanks re white minnow - I'll send photo when I get back. If you find anything in meantime, I'd appreciate it. <Well, I'm afraid it's not so much a matter of finding anything; there's just so many things that it could be.  Stress, normal coloration, etc.  I do look forward to helping you figure this out once you've got a picture for us!  Wishing you well,  -Sabrina> Thanks again, best  Rosa

Buffering Fresh, 2.1 >Marina, Thanks for the advice. >>Quite welcome. >!ST bubbles from the bubble stones, not the powerhead. >>Gotcha, so you've got excellent oxygen/carbon dioxide (O2/CO2) exchange. >I did check KH and GH.... both WAY TOO LOW...... so I guess the best thing to do is to find some of the Seachem products. I do like Seachem best, as I said.  The products were quite easy to find online, and relatively inexpensive. >I have read that clown loaches do much better as a pair or more? Is that not so? >>They may be a bit happier, but honestly I've never known them to do poorly if kept singly, either.  They can grow quite large, though, something to consider. >Thanks for all the help. Monica >>Again, very welcome, I'm glad I was able to answer your questions.  Marina

This Clown's Not Joking Hey Crew, <Hello! Ryan with you> I recently had to shut down my 75gall saltwater tank because it is too big/heavy for my new apartment. <Sorry to hear> To ease the pain of this loss, I purchased a small 5 gallon Hex. Eclipse system for my dresser. Cycled the tank for 3 weeks w a platy. The plan was/is to plant the tank nicely and put a nice Betta in there (of course got a show quality fish from Canada to be shipped next week!).  Also wanted to get one Corydoras cat to keep the bottom clean. Here is the problem/mistake I made ALREADY.  I hadn't dealt with freshwater fish for a long long time and thought I knew "enough" to do this w/out reading. If I had stuck to my 2 fish/plant plan I think I would have been ok. But when I went to get my Corydoras 2 days ago.....I came home w/ a Clown Loach instead. I thought "they're nicer and serve the same purpose." Wrong....<At least you didn't make me tell you!>...I decided to read AFTER the fact and see that it won't fit in my tank for long and needs to be in groups of 3 or more. <I have seen this fish well over 8 inches> And I'm starting to wonder....do they even scavenge??? <Not in the way a true scavenger does> I've feed him 2x and while he gets excited, he doesn't seem to find the food as it sinks to the bottom. Will he find the food at night on the bottom?? <Yes> Secondly, will this guy be ok by himself or does he NEED to be in groups. <he needs to be returned, he will die in your setup within a few months.>  Thirdly...should I just bring him back or give him away??  <Bring him back, stick you your initial plan!  It was a good one.  See ya, Ryan>