Elephant Nose and Iron       4/16/17
A few weeks ago, I wrote to you about a baby elephant nose that I got from my neighbor that I felt was extremely emaciated. He was keeping it with quite a few tetras and rasboras and had a powerhead plus two hob filters on the tank but was indifferent to the condition of the elephant nose. I talked him into selling it to me, brought it home and put it in my 10 gallon plant tank (cycled for over a year), and tried to help it. The little elephant nose put up a valiant fight, but ultimately passed away.
I'm heartsick as I really fell in love with the little guy and I've been searching your site to try to find out what I did wrong. I came across articles in which you state that elephant nose are sensitive to iron. I use RO/DI water (you might remember me from other posts - I live in Idaho, have human remains in the water, among other toxic junk) and I add Equilibrium to bring the mineral content back up. I was looking at the bottle today and it says Equilibrium does contain iron that they list as 0.11% Water Soluble Iron (Fe). Would that have been enough to affect the elephant nose. Also, I used to put Excel Flourish in the tank (though I had not added any for at least three months prior to this incident) and it says it "...has iron reducing properties which promote the ferrous state of Iron (Fe+2)...." Could this have harmed the little elephant nose? My roommate wants to get a black ghost knife fish, but now I'm worried as the BGK is a mormyrid the same as the elephant nose. Even though we're setting
up a tank specifically catering to the needs of the BGK, with filtering and powerheads providing more than 1,000 gph of water flow in a 72 gallon tank, I need to keep using the Equilibrium (I don't have to use the Flourish) and
I'm afraid that if the iron in these products harmed or killed the elephant nose that it might also harm the BGK. (Please don't misunderstand, I think a great deal of SeaChem and love their products, but not every product of
any manufacturer is right for every species of aquarium animal).
<I'm sorry this story had a sad ending, and thank you for trying so hard to save this fish. The short answer is that aquarium iron supplements are unlikely to harm this/any fish; at least, not if used as directed. More likely, this Elephantnose was "just too far gone". They are not easy fish to keep, as we've probably discussed before. While relatively adaptable in terms of water chemistry, they can be finicky feeders, and like all Mormyridae, they are acutely sensitive to chemicals like copper and formalin widely used in aquarium medications. On top of that, being
wild-caught, it's not impossible for them to arrive infected with parasitic worms, which means that however much they eat, they lose weight. Deworming wild-caught fish isn't mandatory by any means, but if a wild-caught fish
fails to thrive despite eating plenty of food, it's a good next step.
Anyway, you will find Black Ghost Knifefish very similar to Elephantnoses in terms of care and feeding. You could probably argue that these Knifefish and their relatives occupy the same ecological niche that Mormyrids do in Africa. Soft substrate, micro-invertebrate prey including worms and insect larvae, and plenty of oxygen are all on the to-do list, while formalin and copper are just as toxic to Black Ghosts as they are to Elephantnoses.
Given Black Ghost Knifefish don't need bright light -- they actually prefer deep, shady conditions -- you will probably find iron-based substrates redundant, even detrimental (they can cause algal problems in the absence
of fast-growing plants). So I'd be taking the Excel Flourish out of the equation, and sticking with silica sand, water worn pebbles and roots, and so far as plants go, low-light tolerant species for the bottom (Anubias for
example) and an over-storey of fast-growing species like Amazon Frogbit to keep algae under control. None of these plants needs any more iron that the usual top-up with fertiliser added to the water every few weeks. Cheers, Neale.>
Re: Elephant Nose and Iron       4/17/17
Thank you Neale, you made me feel a little better.
<Glad to have helped.>
I still wish I could have helped the little fella, but some things are just not meant to be. I've nervously agreed to try the black ghost knife fish (my roommate's all time most wanted fish - mine too if I can keep it healthy and happy).
<They are nice, if demanding, fish. Not really for casual aquarists, but certainly not impossible to keep either.>
The local store that sells them has fish that are about 3 inches long, they look healthy, and the store owner demonstrated to me that all the BGKs in the tank are hungrily eating blood worms.
<Good. These sound VERY small though! Not necessarily a bad thing -- especially if they're feeding well -- but do be careful not to expose them to sudden changes in temperature or water chemistry when you bring them home.>
I knocked down and completely re-worked my 72 bow front. I have put on a Fluval 405 canister filter (340 gph) and added two Hydor Koralia powerheads (one is 1,200 gph and the other is 850 gph). I know this is a little bit
excessive for a 72 gallon tank, but I have also put in two very large fake plants (for hiding spaces) that hang down from the top all the way to the bottom and I want to be sure the current is sufficient to move the water past those plants.
<Understood. BGKs appreciate current, and overall water turnover rates around 8-10 times the volume of the tank is ideal. So anything between 500-700 gallons/hour should fine. But I would turn down the powerheads so that they don't produce too much current. While the Fluval by itself won't be enough, the two extra powerheads -- operating be full blast, anyway -- could be much too much current. Use some common sense here.>
I have pool filter sand as a substrate and a smooth glass candle chimney wrapped with a fake ivy plant for the fish to feel safe. I have placed it diagonally across the water flow so the current inside the chimney is significantly less.
<Wise.>
Since the fish is still very small, I've also added a small cave and a small terracotta strawberry pot (placed diagonally to the water flow as an alternate hiding and refuge away from the strong current). It will be the only fish in this tank.
<Might actually look into some suitable dither fish at some point.
Peaceful, medium-sized tetras would be ideal. Dither fish help bottom-dwellers feel more secure. Some placid bottom-dwellers would be a plus, too, consuming uneaten food. I'd choose something like Brochis catfish that handle deep water better than Corydoras, but share with Corydoras the fact they won't steal food too quickly, leaving your Black Ghost plenty of time to feed.>
Since I had knocked the entire tank down to the glass, I am currently recycling it. I started back on 3/28/17 using Seachem Stability to supply the bacteria and Mysis shrimp to feed them. As of today, my ammonia is down to zero, but my nitrite is now quite high (> 5ppm - really super dark purple), and my nitrate has only climbed to 40, so it will be another week, maybe two, before I can start thinking about bringing the fish home.
<Agreed.>
I also have assurance from the fish store that I can bring the fish back to them if it starts to show any signs that something may be wrong.
<I think in a tank this size, with such a small fish, the risk of "new tank syndrome" after 4-6 weeks of cycling should be very low.>
They're very good and will help me to work out any problems that may come up and will "board" the fish until I get things worked out. Or, worse comes to worse, they will keep the fish and find it a better home if I can't make this work. My roommate has built a large aquarium stand to support a larger tank, so we are currently shopping for a 150 gallon tank along with appropriate filtration. I know it is not a concern right now as the fish is still small, but I want the big tank up, cycled, planted, and fully established before the fish needs it.
<Wise. If this were me, I'd get something else settled in first, to bed the filter in. The Brochis for example, or failing that, a small, harmless Loricariid catfish such as Ancistrus. Sometime to "stress test" the filter before you add anything too delicate. Make sense?>
So, can you think of anything I've left out or forgotten?
<Hope the above helps! Neale.>
Re: Elephant Nose and Iron       4/17/17
Ok, will add the Brochis first, after the tank has finished cycling, if I can find them. I did a quick search and came up with the emerald catfish (Corydoras splendens), is that the species you were referring to?
<Yes; used to be called Corydoras splendens, then became Brochis splendens, and now seems to have switched back. An excellent, inexpensive catfish.>
The selection of freshwater fish in my area is limited and I've never heard of this fish before.
<Very similar to the common Bronze Catfish, Corydoras aeneus, but a bit chunkier and with a dorsal fin that has a much longer base than on typical Corydoras. Quite commonly traded and not expensive. Keep at least 5 specimens.>
Everyone carries the Cory Cat's, but I can't remember seeing an Emerald Catfish.
<Oh, it is out there. Should be available to order. Just make sure you
don't get it muddled with the Bronze Catfish. The dorsal fins are VERY
different.>
If I can't find one (or six to 10 as my quick Google search recommends), would 6 - 10 Congo tetra (Phenacogrammus interruptus) be appropriate or should I stick with bottom feeders?
<Congo Tetras are excellent fish, and good companions for Black Ghost Knifefish. They will provide good "dithering" but won't do much to clean up leftover food.>
I understand those types of tetra would appreciate the strong current and higher oxygen levels and I know I've seen them at my fish store.
<Cheers, Neale.>
Re: Elephant Nose and Iron      4/27/17
Exciting news! Our new BGK is home! OMG! What a stunning fish!
<Quite so.>
Every time I walk past the tank and catch a glimpse of her, I have to stop and watch her for a while. Anyway, things seem to be going great! I see her swimming through the plants night and day and she seems healthy,
strong, but awfully skinny. Now, the aquarium store where I bought her had her there for almost 3 weeks while I was cycling the tank (and I know its fully cycled because I tested daily and watched it go from ammonia to
nitrite and then to nitrate. BEFORE I brought her home, I knew from my own testing that the ammonia was 0, nitrite was 0, and nitrate was 5 ppm before I went down to pick her up, but regardless of my own testing, I took a
water sample down with me and had them test to confirm my results. We were all good. But I digress! Anyway, the aquarium store where I bought her demonstrated to me that she was robustly eating bloodworms when I expressed concern for her looking so thin.
<I would be tempted to deworm, using an aquarium dewormer.>
They told me that many fish arrive from the supplier in a very thin condition. But she was with them for 3 weeks eating bloodworms and is still very skinny, but she shows no other outward signs of any problems. Also, since I've had her home, I've found that she LOVES Cyclops and daphnia (frozen) a lot more than bloodworms, Mysis shrimp or catfish from the grocery store (I still include those foods, but she ignores them until she's eaten all the Cyclops and daphnia).
<Do also try newly hatched brine shrimp; these are economical and very nutritious (unlike adult brine shrimp, which are basically popcorn for fish) if a bit of a hassle to rear. Frozen lobster eggs are also worth trying -- some marine aquarium stores sell them, and they're very calorie-dense, making them useful for "fattening up" new fish.>
So now I'm in a quandary. I don't like using chemicals or medicines unless I'm sure they're warranted, so I wanted to ask you if you believe it would be wise to worm this fish now or give her more time (and Cyclops, and daphnia) and see if she starts putting on some weight?
<Assuming she doesn't have worms, patience and numerous (relatively small) meals is the best way to return fish to healthy conditions. One or two big meals is less good than five or size small meals because fish have short digestive tracts, so tend to poop out a lot of the food they've eaten if "overfed". Deworming is a good idea though, such as Prazi Pro, if a fish is eating plenty but failing to put on weight. Cheers, Neale.>

Baby Elephant Nose with a damaged nose     3/28/17
I recently came across a baby (1 1/2 inches tops) elephant nose in the possession of an acquaintance that looked frighteningly thin to me.
<Very/Too common... under and mis-fed; stocked w/ incompatible life>
When I asked him about it he said the fish's proboscis was damaged but didn't elaborate on how it got damaged. I looked closer and could see that the animal's nose looks "different" but there was no sign of any external damage - it just doesn't look straight. It seemed to be trying to forage for food, but this guy's tank has a heavy current (29 gallon with two hob filters and a powerhead) and he has what seems like a lot of tetras and Rasboras in the same tank. I told him the elephant nose was starving and that if he didn't do something it was going to die - he just shrugged. So I offered him $10 for the fish and he took it. The little guy/gal, that I've named Finley, is now (as of 15 minutes ago) in my 10 gallon by himself. This tank is heavily planted tank with only a 10 gallon filter on it. I've put in rotifers, daphnia, Cyclops, and mashed bloodworms (small amounts) and he seems to be trying to eat it. My question is, is there any chance this fish's nose will heal as it grows if I can just get and keep him eating?
<It may well do so under your good care. Mormyrids have "remarkable powers of regeneration". Bob Fenner>
*Renee *
Re: Baby Elephant Nose with a damaged nose     3/30/17
Thank you! ��
<Welcome Renee. BobF>
Re: Baby Elephant Nose with a damaged nose     3/30/17
Hi Bob - the little elephant nose is still fighting, but its not looking good (lying upside down in the tank, not really swimming) but he's going to have to call it quits - and I'm going to keep going until he does. But I've never kept this kind of fish before so I was hoping to share my plan and get your opinion and suggestions.
<Ok>
The tank he's in is my hospital tank for plants, no fertilizers or anything, just my normal water additives (Equilibrium, Alkaline buffer, Acid buffer, and Stability) and a cup (in a ten gallon tank) of waste water from another tank per week for food for the plants.
But he's the first fish to be in there in 3 years. The water parameters show only yellow (no ammonia), blue (no nitrite), and yellow (no nitrate). I've read on your site that this species is sensitive to many common products used in aquariums such as salt, Prime, etc., and I haven't used anything like that in my efforts to help this fish. But I did a 20% water change this morning (I don't want leftover food hanging around in there), changed the filter medium, and that's about all I've done. I'm keeping the tank temp at 77 and keeping a towel over it to keep things dark and quiet for him.
I'm dropping small amounts of food near him, leaving it for half an hour, then vacuuming it out. Does all of that sound ok to you?
<I'd try the food only twice per day>
Is there anything else that I could be doing that would help?
<Not really; no. There are downsides to trying most everything. Bob Fenner>
Re: Baby Elephant Nose with a damaged nose     3/30/17
Ok, thank you. Whatever happens it means a lot to know I didn't miss anything.
<Ah yes. B>

Mormyrid - safe medicines      1/2/16
Before I devote a tank to a group of Mormyrids, I want to know beforehand which medicines I should have in case there is a problem with disease. The tank will be large and based around their requirements, I just want to be
prepared if there's a complication.
<Ah!>
I see that salt and heat is recommended for Ich, and copper and formalin are unsafe. Malachite green and Acriflavine are also dangerous?
<Acriflavine is relatively safe; Malachite, no. And no metal dyes... most antibiotics, antimicrobials are fine... Sulfa drugs; anti Protozoals... as well>
Furan for fin rot and Maroxy for fungus have been called Mormyrid safe, I don't know if it's the truth.
<Tis so>
Which diseases are they usually vulnerable to, and which medicines can be used to treat them?
<Please see WWM re.... what little I know is archived there>
Thanks.
<Welcome. Bob Fenner>
Mormyrid - safe medicines /Neale      1/2/16
Before I devote a tank to a group of Mormyrids, I want to know beforehand which medicines I should have in case there is a problem with disease. The tank will be large and based around their requirements, I just want to be
prepared if there's a complication.
I see that salt and heat is recommended for Ich, and copper and formalin are unsafe. Malachite green and Acriflavine are also dangerous?
Furan for fin rot and Maroxy for fungus have been called Mormyrid safe, I don't know if it's the truth.
Which diseases are they usually vulnerable to, and which medicines can be used to treat them?
Thanks.
<Short answer: anything safe for Stingrays should be safe for Mormyrids. So if the packaging says "not suitable for stingrays and Elasmobranchs" then avoid. Antibiotics, salt/heat, dewormers should all be fine. Would avoid anything with metals (copper sulphate, potassium permanganate, etc.) and organic dyes only if the manufacturer says they're safe with stingrays. Make sense? Oh, to be clear, copper and formalin are both (a) toxic to fish and (b) toxic to you! Question of dosage and exposure, but by no means are these chemicals "Safe". Cheers, Neale.>

Elephantnose parasite treatment. Dis. and stkg f's       7/18/14
Hello,
I have greatly enjoyed your website, and have in fact found it so comprehensive, and helpful I have never had to write until now.
I have a school of small Peter's Elephantnose fish in a quarantine/holding 75g tank right now. In a couple days they will be moving to moving to their final home, a 160g (+ big sump) tank, which they will share with some Ropefish, Congo tetras, a pair of Pelmatochromis Ocellifer, and later possibly an African knifefish, some African Butterflyfish, and some other rarer West African cichlid and/or Ctenopoma species. (I probably will add the fish on second half of the list later, because for the next year or two
I'll be growing out a fire eel, an Astronotus crassipinnis (rare, smaller cousin of the Oscar), a Paratilipia polleni, and some Paretroplus maculatus
(hopefully) in the 160g before they move to the 300g tank. So that is for the vision for the tank in he next few years.)
I find Elephantnose fascinating, and that was my main motivation to design a tank around them, and to keep them in a group like in nature. I started out with nine, expecting that being a bit sensitive I might lose one, and I have had them for two months now. I had one die for no discernible reason not long after I bought them, but until a couple weeks ago, all the others were fine. They were all eating very well on live Blackworms (rinsed  well), frozen bloodworms, frozen Mysis, frozen krill, and chopped earthworms.
During that first month most of them started to get nice and fat, and lose that thin look they come in with, however a few kept getting skinnier, even though they were eating well, and then eventually they stopped eating as well, and got even skinnier, and then ate less... etc., you get the picture. I am sure it is parasites, rather than competition for food, because there are not other fish with them yet (I wanted to get them
eating well before introducing them even to a sedate community tank) and also because one of the very skinny ones was one of the largest, most dominate of the ENs.
I hesitated to treat them all for parasites, because I know they are sensitive to many meds, and I didn't want to risk the ones who were healthy for the skinny ones. I eventually separated the two skinniest ones to try to treat, but by that time they were too far gone and I lost them. I want advice on what anti-parasitic to use on the six who are left, because I really want to treat them all, just to be on a the safe side. I have a couple still alive who aren't gaining weight like the others. It is very similar to the "wasting disease" wild caught loaches often come in with. I have available to use PraziPro, API General Cure (Prazi and Metronidazole) and Levamisole. What would you recommend?
<The combination of the Praziquantel and Metronidazole... either as a mixed product as you list from Aq. Pharm., or blended together yourself... delivered via foods>
Also a separate question, but do you think I should add a couple more Elephantnose once they are moved to the 160g? Six seems to me to be on the low side for a group of them.
<Six is fine... and what I would stick with. As having more adds to the possibility of the "last one" getting picked on, doing poorly>
Thank you so much, and sorry that it was a bit long!
--
*Ariel Johns*
<Cheers, Bob Fenner>
Re: Elephantnose parasite treatment      7/18/14
Thanks so much for the prompt reply!
Quick follow-up question: the API General Cure's instructions are for mixing in the water, so what would be a good amount to use mixed with the food?
<Mmm, IF you using the API in the water, realize almost NONE of it is going to get inside the fish/es (FW fish don't drink their environment... unlike marines). IN ORDER to treat for internal parasites... Let's just have you read on WWM re: http://wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/fwmaintindex.htm
scroll down to Disease, read re the compounds involved here>
Each individual packet contains 250mg Metronidazole, and 75mg Praziquantel. Should I mix one packet with water (how much water?), and then soak their food in it? How long should I treat them with the
medicated food?
Thanks again!
<Do the reading. BobF>
Re: Elephantnose parasite treatment    8/4/14
Hello, and sorry to bother you again!
<Never a bother>
Thanks for the info on how to dose the API General Cure orally for the fish. After a lot of reading to make sure I understood the amount to use, I mixed 1 tsp of the API in 1 cup of water, and soaked the food in it for a few hours. I fed this two days in a row using a fresh mixture each time. I treated not only my Elephantnose fish, but also a number of wild caught cichlids I had in quarantine that weren't thriving.
<Good>
Everyone seemed to improve... EXCEPT my skinny Elephantnose, unfortunately. Initially the treatment seemed to improve its appetite, but it is just as skinny, perhaps skinnier after several weeks. Is there any point in repeating that same treatment again?
<Mmm; yes; to some extent>
I know Metronidazole is toxic if used too much...
<Yes>
Which I guess brings me to my main question. Is it worth the risk to try Levamisole?
<IMO/E, yes>
I know that it kills some types of parasites that Prazi and Metro don't, so it may help where they didn't. Do you have any idea how Mormyrids react to it?
<Unfortunately I do not; nor see any reference to it in my in-print works here>
Is there a way I could dose it orally like I did with the API General cure, and if so, would that be safer for them?
<Can be dosed as you state... and is safer administered thus>
Or could I do a Levamisole "bath" for the skinniest Elephantnose? What would be the procedure on that?
<The bath will not likely be efficacious... VERY little of the material will get into the fish>
Thanks so much!
Ariel
<Welcome. Bob Fenner>
Re: Elephantnose parasite treatment     8/5/14
Thank you!
The problem I have is that the Levamisole I have doesn't say how many milligrams are in each treatment, all it says is to use "4 drops per gallon". If this is the dosage to put in the tank, what dosage would be a
safe to soak the food in?
<Mmm; much more. Do you want to pay fro 2d. ed. of Noga's Fish Disease book? He gives units for:
Prolonged immersion: 10 mg. HCl/l...
Feed: 2.5-10 mg/kg
Injection....>
1 drop in a Quart of water, or should it be higher than the amount to treat the tank? Like 1 drop in a Cup of water?
Thanks!
<... can't say/state a comparison w/o knowing what the concentration of the product actually is. B>
Re: Elephantnose parasite treatment     8/5/14
I emailed the distributor of the Levamisole I have, and they said concentration in the directions are for about 2 ppm (=~2mg/l). What would be a way to judge my Elephantnoses approximate weight? They are 4-5inches long, but obviously much slimmer than, say, a cichlid that same length.
<Mmm; likely guessing will be good enough (an ounce each let's say). IF you had a gram scale, you could (I would) weigh out a given weight of water with container (tare); add the fish to this... the difference being the fish's weight>
Thanks for all your help! I will let you know how it goes after treatment, so others will know what to do for their Mormyrids!
<I thank you, Bob Fenner>