Water stinks! New water make-up      7/8/12
Crew,
<Dave>
I have an RO/DI unit for water. I mix in a Brute trash can, as recommended. I raise the temperature to about 75F during mixing, use power jets to agitate, and generally age the water a bit. My water tends stink (light mildew odor?),
<Can't say, but I'd likely be adding a good carbon filter here... If this doesn't do it, bleaching the whole apparatus occasionally>
and also has marine buffer precipitate (per the packaging, this could indicate "poor ionic balance").
<Yes>
Recently I left a full vat of water (with salt mix) for 2 days without aeration or heat. I thought I'd save some power, as I was not due for another water change for a week. After I noticed a much stronger stink, and for 4 days have used power jets/heater but the odor has not diminished (and the precipitate is far worse than normal).
<Summat growing there it seems>
Testing yields 7.9 ph and no measurable ammonia/nitrite/nitrate/phosphate.
Do I have anything to worry about in using this water?
<Not likely>
Could mildew or "poor ionic balance" cause a problem in the main tank?
<Some small chance of both, yes... I would be investigating what the source of both troubles are and fixing. For the latter, review the use of alkaline earth materials (additions of Ca, Mg...) and their counter effects on alkalinity/pH. You're likely fighting yourself here. Bob Fenner>

High TDS reading in Auto Top off bucket   8/14/11
Hi,
<Hello>
Excellent service, always helpful. I looked around for the answer to my question and seem to get conflicting answers / theories so wonder can you help.
Basically in my Auto top off bucket ( Old DD H2o salt bucket ) I get a Tds reading 700/800ppm maybe higher. The water going into bucket comes from my ro/di unit at 0/1ppm, how can this be.
<... strange>
Should I worry bout it. I cleaned the bucket and reading went down to 20 but few days later checked and it's gone over 700ppm again.
Thank you in advance for all the help ye provide to this hobby.
Aidan Connell.
<These buckets are made of Polyethylene... are chemically inert; should be contributing naught... to dissolved solids et al. First thing I'd try another kit/meter... maybe have someone else do the testing in front of you. Bob Fenner>

Helpful Roommate. Adding bottled water to top off a system 12/14/2009
Hi guys. Long time follower of your site.
<Hi Greg.>
Yesterday my friendly roommate noticed that the water level in my refugium was a little low. We have been chatting lately about my 75 gallon with a 30 gallon refugium marine tank.
I guess he was feeling helpful and "in the loop", so he decided to add a gallon of Harris Teeter drinking water to the tank.
<Well, if you were a gallon down, that should be fine.>
I wanted to kill him.
<Nothing that drastic is necessary.>
On the label of the drinking water it says, "Prepared by carbon filtration, microfiltration, and ozonization for purity. How worried should I be?
<As long as it was not chlorinated or carbonated, it should be fine.>
I have a bunch of sps and xmas tree worm rock that has thrived for over 3 years. My LFS is closed until Tuesday which is where I usually purchase salt water. Should I just wait and then do a water change on Tuesday, or will the aquarium to a relative, murder my roommate, and suffer the consequences?
<No worries. remember, you need to top off evaporated water with fresh water. Double check your salinity and water parameters, but I highly doubt any harm was done.>
Thanks,
Greg
<MikeV>

Make-Up Water 11/17/09
I made up 10 gallons of makeup water on Sunday for a water change I was planning on doing later on in the week. There was still maybe a gallon left in my tote from the last water change. I tested the salt level on Monday and also decided to check for ammonia and I actually found some.
Its somewhere on the color card between .25 and .5.
<I'm assuming the ammonia level was found in the gallon of water you had left. If so, I would test the R/O water for ammonia before adding the salt, just a process of elimination. Was Windex or similar products used in the area of the make-up water?>
I am using R/O water from the Culligan man and reef crystals. Is this water safe to use for a water change?
<Should be, but if in doubt, test before mixing the salt. James (Salty Dog)>

Re Make-Up Water 11/17/09
I found the ammonia after I added that 10 gallons of r/o and salt to it and let it sit for a day. No chemicals are used in the area I have my totes.
<I would check the make-up water before mixing the salt. I'm leaning toward an erroneous reading of the test kit. Have you compared the reading with one taken of your display tank water?>
I noticed that I have salt gathering and sticking to my heater I have in the tote is this a problem?
<No, is likely calcium build up, easily cleaned by soaking overnight in a vinegar solution. James (Salty Dog)>

Re Make-Up Water 11/18/09
I did compare it to my tank water and the tub water has a slightly more of a green tint to it. I did a 4 gallon water change its a 38 gallon tank, and tested the ammonia level in the tank about 4 hours later and no ammonia is present. I tested all my other parameters and everything is perfect.
<A possibility this tub/container was used for storing another product that may have contained traces of ammonia.>
Thanks for all your help.
<You're welcome. James (Salty Dog)>

Make-Up Water 11/17/09
I made up 10 gallons of makeup water on Sunday for a water change I was planning on doing later on in the week. There was still maybe a gallon left in my tote from the last water change. I tested the salt level on Monday and also decided to check for ammonia and I actually found some.
Its somewhere on the color card between .25 and .5.
<I'm assuming the ammonia level was found in the gallon of water you had left. If so, I would test the R/O water for ammonia before adding the salt, just a process of elimination. Was Windex or similar products used in the area of the make-up water?>
I am using R/O water from the Culligan man and reef crystals. Is this water safe to use for a water change?
<Should be, but if in doubt, test before mixing the salt. James (Salty Dog)>

Re Make-Up Water 11/17/09
I found the ammonia after I added that 10 gallons of r/o and salt to it and let it sit for a day. No chemicals are used in the area I have my totes.
<I would check the make-up water before mixing the salt. I'm leaning toward an erroneous reading of the test kit. Have you compared the reading with one taken of your display tank water?>
I noticed that I have salt gathering and sticking to my heater I have in the tote is this a problem?
<No, is likely calcium build up, easily cleaned by soaking overnight in a vinegar solution. James (Salty Dog)>

ATO Question: Siphoning 7/20/2009
Dear Crew,
<Hi Andy.>
Happy Friday. Many of you have helped me work through the crash of my tank last September. By pure luck and good fortune, I finally figured out how it happened.
<Good news.>
I have a Tunze auto top-off system. The outlet hose for the ATO is clipped to the top of my sump--I'd say 12" high off the bottom of the stand. I recently vacationed in Alaska and went through my normal protocol. I filled a Brute trash can with 30 gallons or so of RO/DI water for top off, and threw my Tunze pump in there. As luck would have it, I did one last check of my system before I headed to the airport and I noticed that even though my Tunze ATO pump was not cycled on, there was a slow trickle of water from the ATO hose outlet.
<Uh oh.>
So, it appears that a siphon is created once the ATO pump starts, which isn't broken when it cycles off.
<Likely so.>
This explains why my floor was wet when my tank crashed--the sump overflowed, water made contact with
either my return pump or my HQI ballasts, which tripped the circuit breaker.
How can this happen if the pump sits below the hose outlet? I'm thinking that it's because the trash can is so high, that the height of the hose coming over the top of the trash can overcomes the 12" or so height difference between the position of the outlet hose and the floor where the pump sits??
<That is it exactly.>
I am heading to the beach for a week at the end of August, so I need to sort this out. I was considering buying a large shallow tub that is no higher than the height of the outlet hose.
<That would be better. Remember the water hose will fill up to the level of the water in its container, so a shallower container is less likely to siphon.>
Thanks for your help.
<My pleasure.>
Andy
<MikeV>

Re: ATO Question: Siphoning 7/21/2009
Thanks, Mike.
<Hi Andy.>
I thought this was impossible--that you couldn't have a siphon if the outlet is higher than the inlet.
<Not true - particularly if there is a large mass of water over the inlet to provide pressure. It won't be as efficient, but it will still siphon.>
Andy
<MikeV>

Mystery Water Loss 9/4/08 Hi Crew!!!!!
<Hello Jay.>
Great website, it has helped me out a great deal, hats off to you guys and gals.
<Great! Thank you.>
I have a 75 Gallon Reef with a 20 Gallon sump, it is a new setup and was running with just saltwater for about a week without any noticeable water loss. Since adding my 28Kg of cured live rock and 20kg live sand and switching on my Tunze 9010 I have noticed a water loss of about 1 Gallon over a 12 hour period, I do not think that it is all due to evaporation because as I understood if saltwater evaporates the salt from the evaporated water would remain in the tank and the salinity would rise?
<A rise in salinity would be expected, but depending on your testing methods it may not be a measurable amount. A good refractometer will be able to measure the difference, but even then it will be very little in this water volume. A gallon in 12 hours is not unheard of.>
I am having the opposite, my salinity is slowly going down, I have checked all piping and bulkheads, I can not even find a drip or even a wet patch.
<If the salinity is indeed going down, you must be losing the water somewhere (and topping off). I however do suspect you may want to try a different hydrometer/refractometer or at least have an LFS test the salinity for you over a period of a few days.>
I have not even started to use my light fixture yet (Arcadia twin 150watt metal halides), so it can't be excessive evaporation, can it?
<It indeed can be. There will be some evaporation, much dependant on ambient temperature. Even just adding the protein skimmer will increase the evaporation.>
My tank parameters are as follows: SG 1.024 - 1.026, PH 8.24, Temp 25.5. I really can not work this one out, any ideas that you may have would be very much appreciated.
Jay.
<Welcome, Scott V.>

pH problems 1/31/04 Hey, just a quick question for you guys. First of all, thanks for the great website and for all the effort everybody has put into it. It has really helped me through a lot in this sometimes frustrating hobby.. I have searched through all the FAQs on Ph and Alkalinity and couldn't find the answer to my problem. I also searched through the RO sections. I did however find a person with the same problem, but it was never cleared up. Ok, the question.. <Wow! Sounds like you have been quite diligent.> When I make up top-off water I heat and aerate the water for 24 hours to drive off carbonic acid.. I do this in a 5 gallon bucket of old salt mix with a MaxiJet 1200 on the bottom facing upwards to create surface agitation. I have a pump with air stone I use also to make extra sure it aerated good enough.. I then add a half teaspoon of Seachem marine buffer and a half teaspoon of Seachem reef builder. I let this mix and circulate for another 12-24 hours. After about 90 minutes after adding the buffer the water test at 8.4 ... I then waited 7 hours and tested another time.. It tested at 8.2 ... I waited another 7 hours after that and retested. It tested at 7.8.. I have tried opening windows. I have tried aerating for a couple of days prior to mixing and nothing seems to help. I tried mixing for 3 days or so thinking the buffers haven't had time to dissolve totally, but nothing seems so help.. It still falls to 7.4-7.8.. after 24 hours or so. I just can't figure out why the buffer and reef builder is falling out of solution or being eaten up some how. I shouldn't have to add buffer ever day to keep a constant ph level. I just can't figure it out.. Maybe you guys can enlighten me on what's going on. <Two things are occurring in some combination. First, the buffers in these products are actually LESS soluble in fresh water than in salt water (I know this is counter intuitive, but trust me!). Second, the manufacturer puts a variety of chemicals in these products so that long term use does not lead to the accumulation or depletion of certain ions from your aquarium. The combination of these two things will lead to precipitation in your bucket. I suspect that you have noticed a powdery white precipitate in the bottom of your bucket, or the water becomes slightly cloudy. My suggestion is to use these products one at a time (alternate between them) and only add them to the aerated water immediately before use.> I hate to bother ya'll with stuff like this, but it really has been bothering me. I don't want to drive my tanks ph down by adding low ph water. I have read through just about every faq page on the website over the years for knowledge and for when any question arose.. It has been a blessing indeed. Keep up the good work. Thanks in advance, Jeff Trumble <No need to worry about driving your tank pH down. The buffers are still there, and in the CO2 consuming daylight hours in a reef tank, they will resort back to the desired pH. You just won't be getting the most effect for your money. Glad you have found benefit from WWM! Adam>

Automated water changes for mini-reef Hello, and thanks for the great website and instructive information. <thanks kindly... please keep reading, learning and sharing> I'm interested in attempting the following experiment: to maintain a 180 gal. community mini-reef system with automated water changes from the regeneration (the rinse water that cleanses the ion-exchange resin bed)  from my household water softener. <I see some likely problems already if your household softener uses potassium or sodium chloride to recharge: imparting chlorides which skew alkalinity in the aquarium for post treated water... OR...(your case) the impart of hardened "purged water" which has mostly useful hard water elements (exchanged for chloride by the softener) BUT(!) also has un-exchanged sodium chloride. This unregulated NaCl allowed into your aquarium without  the other balanced minerals and trace elements of seawater will naturally effect your SG but without the other necessary elements. In simpler terms... you can add enough NaCl table salt to a glass of water that gives you a desired reading for marine life, but without the trace elements... marine life will die in this salted water even though the hydrometer says differently> We use a 38,000 grain "on demand" water softener (using sodium chloride) <Houston we have a problem...> and a RO system. (THE RO brine is used for another application -- a humidifying water fountain). The hardness of our municipal tap water is approx. 16 grains. It is chlorinated, but has low (undetectable) total dissolved solid, phosphate, copper and iron content. Each regeneration uses approx 35 gallons, and regenerates approx. every 5 days. Approximately 3lbs of salt is used for each regeneration: <Ughh> The water chemistry of this "brine"  consists mostly of sodium chloride, calcium and magnesium. <Oh, ya!> I have 2 pH readings, 8.1 and 8.2 I'd like to have this water run through some activated carbon and a specified amount of additional synthetic sea salt -- before it hits the sump. <sorry... how do you reckon the incidental plain salt carried in? Even if you could easily measure it, do you really want to get into making your own synthetic trace element slurry to dose and temper the stray plain NaCl?> The tank would be appropriately fitted for overflow drainage. <way too complicated here, bud. Your best bet would be to get a separate (small is OK) 2-column de-ionizer and completely demineralize this water if your goal is saving water. The high pH of this effluent that will be lost through the DI is a small loss and easily/cheaply recovered post treatment> The issues, as I see it are as follows: 1: Maintaining the specific gravity of the tank by fine-tuning the requisite additional salt; (including fiddling with the evaporation rate, by changing the amt. of uncovered surface area.) <a complete nightmare... complicated and recommended only if you enjoy the challenge and are a chemist> 2: Accounting for an accelerated removal of trace elements (strontium, etc.). <accelerated? They were never there in the first place. Not sure we are on the same page here. I am talking about you reckoning the sodium chloride that you are bringing in with this rinse water but without the slurry of balanced trace elements to make SW> Before I reinvent the wheel, do you have any information about other attempts in this area? <no one bothers when time and expense are issues. This would have to be a personal challenge for you, because there is no practical reason otherwise for doing it. The irony is that your tap water through carbon is probably the best water could you have in the house for a marine tank. Reconstituting pure DI water is probably second.> Are there any flies in the ointment I'm missing? <a whole swamp full of flies, brother!> Other considerations? <this really all boils down to not bringing plain salt into the make up water or being a brilliant chemist with a lab to check the daily/weekly variances and compensate for them with your own home-made synthetic sea salt mix> -- e.g. are there some reef species that would be more tolerant to this? <cruel and unnatural to do so... doesn't happen in the wild> Species to avoid? <Ha!... All<G>> Are there other automations to help minimize other tank maintenance, <I can forward you a chapter from my book about setting up automatic water changes with solenoids> such as substrate maintenance? <thin substrate, strong water movement and active sand sifting animals> What other issues should I consider? <hmmm... I'd suggest that you try treating this more like a hobby instead of a science, my friend :) ... unless you truly enjoy the science more than the organic living components (our fishes and corals!)> Thanks!-Frank Pogoda BTW: I plan to keep a journal on this project & publish my results to help others who may be curious about this operation.   <indeed, that would be excellent at any rate. Kind regards, Anthony>

Automated water changes for mini-reef Whew! I haven't been sobered up that aggressively since college mid-terms! <Ha! With a college flashback like that, did you also suddenly get the munchies too? And for lack of a beer at hand, chug your scalding hot coffee chanting "Go. go...go...go...GOOOOOO!" in your head? Just checking?> Your sense of humor and gracious style, Anthony, is why when you ring in folks like me (and you sure did) we laugh along....good job! And thanks for the good feedback. <Wow... thanks kindly :) But I was really just taking the long way around the barn for calling you a sadist with mad scientist tendencies. I'll take the credit just the same <G>. Heehee...> Your reasonable protestations aside, let's assume I (pigheadedly!) go through with this experiment. <OK> Should I seek out a SW product that is markedly higher in balanced trace elements than others? <that depends on how involved you want to get here. If the science of it isn't appeal in the purist form... and you just simply want to make it work: my advice would be to simply purchase the semi-solid synthetic sea salt concentrates they make for the big commercial operations (actually quite economical... but you must mix every time EXTREMELY well or make whole batches (400gall) at a time). These SW slurries have everything in it you need except plain salt. Then... you will only have to calculate the influx of sodium chloride with the source water and supplement proportionately> Is there a trace element compound available without sodium chloride? <yep... most of the big manufacturers make it. Best to seek an aquaculture supply house for this. Fritz used to make such a product for public aquariums and shrimp/food fish farmers.. perhaps still do?> Maybe the trace element/SW slurry (including the correct amount of salt to balance the brine) could be set below the activated charcoal/carbon, ready to be washed into the tank with the regenerated water. What other suggestions do you have to make this work? <Jack Daniels... by the gallon> I know using that automating a system with inferior water  is complicated, ultimately may not work, and is repugnant to many. But the allure of utilizing water that is so close to ideal, and is generated a mere 5 feet away from the tank, and can lop off a HUGE chunk of time, and is an intriguing alternative to the conventional way -- is all too enticing for me. <some merit to it, some extra complications too. The high pH and high mineral content are easily provided/supplemented and cheaply too otherwise. You may find that using this water is not time saving at all, and simply resort to carbon filtered tap water> BTW, I will NOT jeopardize any marine wildlife with this Dr. Demento contraption. <understood my friend> Live rock will be added only when I can easily maintain the correct SW chemistry. Finally, I agree with your suggestion that I treat this more as a hobby than as a science. That's what I'm doing! Rather than anally adhering to scientific rules set in stone, I'm trying a different path to the same destination. <you're a heroin addict, aren't you? Ahem,... I mean... "Why yes, I concur wholeheartedly with your reason and rationale for embracing the science of aquariology without becoming enslaved to it." Errrh... or something like that <G>> From where I sit, my friend, that's the approach that makes mini-reefkeeping a hobby. Thanks again, and do let me know your additional input to this unconventional approach to make and maintain safe sea water. With great appreciation, Frank <best regards in this endeavor... we'll watch for you on the news. :) Anthony>