Tang Path Dis F

FAQs about Pathogenic Disease of Tangs (plus see below)

FAQs on: Tang Disease 1, Tang Disease 2, Tang Disease 3, Tang Disease 4, Tang Disease 5, Tang Disease 6, Tang Disease 7, Tang Disease 8, Tang Health 9, Tang Disease 10, Tang Disease 11, Tang Disease 12, Tang Disease 13, &
FAQs on Tang Disease by Category: Diagnosis, Environmental, Nutritional, Social, Trauma, Pathogenic (plus see below), Genetic, Treatments
FAQs by Tang Disease by Pathogen: Tangs/Rabbitfishes & Crypt, Tangs/Rabbits Crypt 2, Tangs/Rabbits Crypt 3, Tangs/Rabbits Crypt 4, & Paravortex/Black Spot Disease,

Surgeonfishes: Tangs for Marine Aquariums
Diversity, Selection & Care
New eBook on Amazon: Available here
New Print Book on Create Space: Available here
by Robert (Bob) Fenner

New Fish (Tang) - Quarantine 11/9/17
Good afternoon Crew,
I feel your forum has a mixed bag of answers,
<... we don't have a forum>
and although I was pretty confident with my previous decision, I'm now undecided. I've successfully treated numerous fish for crypt via Cupramine in the past and have yet to experience a loss during that process.
<Acanthurids don't tolerate copper exposure well>
I enjoy the comfort of knowing I have a crypt free tank.

In Sept I bought a Kole Tang that I knew had Crypt, and requested both a guaranty on the fish and $ discount from the store because of this. The Tang was active, alert, plump, and feeding... thus I figured he'd be a good
candidate to QT and utilize Cupramine to get him healthy for my display.
Finished the 16 day treatment and he was still feeding and looked vibrant and healthy, so I introduced him to my display tank. 60g with two Picasso clowns, yellow watchman goby, royal gramma, and a rose BTA. Everyone left
him alone and for the first few days he was somewhat shy, but still active.
Approaching the two week mark in the display tank he remained hidden and I can't recall seeing him eat in the display tank ever, although I purposely left some hair algae alone for him to pick at. Roughly two weeks, the Kole
Tang died. I know I used the proper dosage of Cupramine, and if I was slightly off... I was likely slightly a lower dose than higher. Previously Bob Fenner suggested that Tangs are definitely more sensitive to copper treatments than other fish.
<Ah yes>
Maybe it was the Cupramine?
<Quite possibly a contributor>
Maybe it was something from the collection process - but then I'd suspect perhaps this fish wouldn't have been active and feeding for the first few weeks. Maybe he grazed my BTA, but I wonder if touching my BTA could cause a two week decline and death in my Tang? Stumped.

So, in a long winded question... I'm afraid to add a new Tang directly to my display tank. This seems like the least stressful way to introduce a Tang, but I'm very concerned with a new Tang bringing crypt back into my
tank.
<You are wise here>
If it was you, how would you introduce a new tang?
<Isolation, sans treatment for a few weeks, lowered spg (1.012). Possibly CP feeding>
I do have a 20g bare bottom QT available. I hate any fish loss, and just want to do what's best for my existing reef community as well as any new acquisition. Thanks again!!
Dave
<Welcome. Bob Fenner>
Re: New Fish (Tang) - Quarantine 11/9/17
Thanks. So, I assume gradually lower salinity from store water to the 1.012, and then eventually up it to my tank that sits at 1.023?
<Yes>
Possibly CP Feedings?
<... Please search WWM re Chloroquine Phosphate use>
Not following you there.
Dave
<Sorry re. BobF>

Attn: bob-achilles tang; and Trematode f' 11/29/14
Hey fellow name sharer,
<Hey Rob>
As discussed before, I restarted my 155 fowlr august 4, and the tank has been cycled since midway point September.
My lfs was having. 25 percent off sale this week, in which I took a purple tang. It died shortly after, so after explaining situation, he have me the credit to use on it, and I picked up my two favorite fish, Aussie tusk and an Achilles tang.
Unlike my previous achilles which I killed while trying to quarantine (ammonia) this one is larger, in the 4 to 5 inch range, and has been at the store since august. Has not yet showed signs of ich at the store, and I know the store runs a low level of copper.
<Ah yes; most all LFS do>
Once in my tank, he ate right away, and is very active. Later that night I noticed just one of his eyes appeared to be foggy (thought it was flukes) but after More observation, it's a blue tint, on just the one eye. I know after reading achilles can have some shades of Blue on them, but being it is just one, I am not sure.

My first instinct was a fw dip, or Prazi pro, but looking back at my mistakes, over reacting, I did nothing.
<Good>
I know they are sensitive fish, and not cheap, would you say the laid back approach here is the way to go? Or is one eye always an indication of an issue, whether it be bacterial, flukes etc.
<I do like dips (short term baths) of pH adjusted freshwater (aerated if RO or doing a bunch of fishes); with formalin if you have it... for these (Acanthuroid) fishes. They almost always sport a bunch of Trematodes coming from the wild; or mixed in with fishes from same>
Thanks again for your time. I hit an all time low this summer with fish trying to be a hero, and want to change my approach for the better going forward.
Thanks bob
<Welcome. B. Fenner>
Re: Attn: bob-achilles tang 11/29/14
Hey bob,
<rob?>
Thanks for the input, always appreciated .
Upon getting home from work early tonight I devoted my time to paying close attention to the eye of the achilles. These tangs move a lot and often, so getting a good view is tough.
While looking at this eye, I saw little oval shaped pieces on the eye, much to my displeasure. I believe them to be flukes. I did not fw dip this fish in fear if killing it just as what happened with the purple tang a week ago.
<As prev. mentioned... I ALWAYS do>
I knew the "just having different eye color" was wishful thinking. I can try to catch fish tomorrow and fw dip, but I do have about 175 lbs of rock.
Being I am running a therapeutic (sp) level of Cupramine , could I shut My skimmer off and run one or two courses of Prazi pro as well for the flukes?
<You could... there may be water quality issues from the Prazi killing off a good deal of Vermes biomass... you might want the skimmer on>
I waited about 6 hours to make sure my eyes weren't fooling me. He also has what looks like mini seeds (white) on his black body.
<.... sigh... too likely Trematodes as well>
And if caught, for a fw dip, is taking two gallons of fresh ro, pumped with a strong pump for an hour, pinch of reef buffer the trick? I have a pinpoint but can throw it a lot further than I can trust it. I just don't want a repeat of last week . Thanks again and hope your not experiencing the 24 degree weather we have!
<... no thanks! It's time, perhaps past-time for me to suggest you getting, using a simple microscope. B>Attn: bob-achilles tang; and Trematode f' 11/29/14
Hey fellow name sharer,
<Hey Rob>
As discussed before, I restarted my 155 fowlr august 4, and the tank has been cycled since midway point September.
My lfs was having. 25 percent off sale this week, in which I took a purple tang. It died shortly after, so after explaining situation, he have me the credit to use on it, and I picked up my two favorite fish, Aussie tusk and an Achilles tang.
Unlike my previous achilles which I killed while trying to quarantine (ammonia) this one is larger, in the 4 to 5 inch range, and has been at the store since august. Has not yet showed signs of ich at the store, and I know the store runs a low level of copper.
<Ah yes; most all LFS do>
Once in my tank, he ate right away, and is very active. Later that night I noticed just one of his eyes appeared to be foggy (thought it was flukes) but after More observation, it's a blue tint, on just the one eye. I know after reading achilles can have some shades of Blue on them, but being it is just one, I am not sure.

My first instinct was a fw dip, or Prazi pro, but looking back at my mistakes, over reacting, I did nothing.
<Good>
I know they are sensitive fish, and not cheap, would you say the laid back approach here is the way to go? Or is one eye always an indication of an issue, whether it be bacterial, flukes etc.
<I do like dips (short term baths) of pH adjusted freshwater (aerated if RO or doing a bunch of fishes); with formalin if you have it... for these (Acanthuroid) fishes. They almost always sport a bunch of Trematodes coming from the wild; or mixed in with fishes from same>
Thanks again for your time. I hit an all time low this summer with fish trying to be a hero, and want to change my approach for the better going forward.
Thanks bob
<Welcome. B. Fenner>
Re: Attn: bob-achilles tang 11/29/14
Hey bob,
<rob?>
Thanks for the input, always appreciated .
Upon getting home from work early tonight I devoted my time to paying close attention to the eye of the achilles. These tangs move a lot and often, so getting a good view is tough.
While looking at this eye, I saw little oval shaped pieces on the eye, much to my displeasure. I believe them to be flukes. I did not fw dip this fish in fear if killing it just as what happened with the purple tang a week ago.
<As prev. mentioned... I ALWAYS do>
I knew the "just having different eye color" was wishful thinking. I can try to catch fish tomorrow and fw dip, but I do have about 175 lbs of rock.
Being I am running a therapeutic (sp) level of Cupramine , could I shut My skimmer off and run one or two courses of Prazi pro as well for the flukes?
<You could... there may be water quality issues from the Prazi killing off a good deal of Vermes biomass... you might want the skimmer on>
I waited about 6 hours to make sure my eyes weren't fooling me. He also has what looks like mini seeds (white) on his black body.
<.... sigh... too likely Trematodes as well>
And if caught, for a fw dip, is taking two gallons of fresh ro, pumped with a strong pump for an hour, pinch of reef buffer the trick? I have a pinpoint but can throw it a lot further than I can trust it. I just don't want a repeat of last week . Thanks again and hope your not experiencing the 24 degree weather we have!
<... no thanks! It's time, perhaps past-time for me to suggest you getting, using a simple microscope. B>
Re: Attn: bob-achilles tang 11/30/14
Microscope will look into. What does a good one run these days?
<See my scant input on WWM re... I have a really neat Intel/Mattel QX near hand that was under a hundred US... up to 400 power, two light sources, USB connection... FAB!>
Also about the Prazi, it says on bottle to turn off uv and skimmer. With Cupramine, I didn't know if the Prazi would be a "reducing" agent like a dechlorinator would, supposedly that makes the copper deadly toxic.
<These do have to be off lest they remove the med.s quickly and for the UV, result in coating of the lamp or sleeve... hard to remove>
I hope these companies stick those notes on the bottle in cya fashion. I be read some others using Cupramine( bounded copper) with Prazi.
Thank you
<Can be used together. Pardon the emboldening but "SHOULD USE IN treatment tanks", and of course "PREVENTION is far better, vis a vis dips/baths... There's a bit of disc. re the same the last few days twixt Lemon Tea, myself and others. B>
Re: Attn: bob-achilles tang 11/30/14
Ok. So just to be absolutely sure. When SeaChem says not to mix with reducing agents,
<? Proton donors, electron acceptors? Am an olde ex H.S. chem. and physics teacher>
such as ammonia or chlorine removers,
<?>
Prazi pro from Hikari would not fall into that category, and would be fine to mix?
<As far as I'm aware; yes>
I am at about .35 level of the Cupramine. My believe and joy would be to extract cooper after a few more weeks to help the tang ease in without fear of ich,
<It may die from flukes first, or complications thereof really... such as non-feeding>
but at same time, with eye already cloudy, and other fish starting to "head shake", I may not have a few more weeks to play with.
I can go home tonight, do a 1/3 water change. Knock the copper down to .2, run some carbon a few hours, and dose with Prazi.
I supposed I am starting to panic, and a war is raging between heart and brain. I want to exhibit patience, but at the same time do the right thing for my livestock.
<When, where in doubt, do nothing... Or better, keep reading, seeking to understand what's going on; your options>
If I am comprehending effectively so far, and this was your tank, you would begin the Prazi pro tonight, even with elevated copper levels?
<... not going to repeat myself a fourth time.>
This reminds me of something a college professor told me once, and that is if you keep looking and reading, you will find contradictions that you might inadvertently be looking for.
In my case I suppose I was looking/scouring for something telling me you can not mix Cupramine along with Prazi.
Thank you again for providing your ears and cranium. I feel this hobby is a game of poker, with much higher stakes!
Re: Attn: bob-achilles tang 11/30/14
Hey bob, not sure about the chemistry terms. Here is the excerpt from SeaChem's website:
Q: I've been dosing with Cupramine™ and then I added Product X and everything died. What happened?
A: If Product X is a reducing agent such as ParaGuard™ (or other aldehyde based medications), or if you overdose with a dechlorinator, such as Prime® then the Cu+2 will be reduced to Cu+. Cu+ is 10 times more toxic than Cu+2.
<Ah yes; Aldehydes can be oxidized...>
This is what I was not sure of. If the was Prazi would fall into the same boat as the products mentioned.
<No... Look both up on Wiki... Praziquantel is best administered via food/s... has a short metabolic life. Mode of action is entirely different. B>
Re: Attn: bob-achilles tang 11/31/14
Thank you bob! That was the one thing holding me back from having confidence. I now see there should be no interference with Prazi and cupramine.bim assuming formaldehyde is a reducer, different animal than dewormer.
I know, display tank is far from ideal for dosing Meds. I lost about 2900 in fish this summer trying to medicate in qt, and have a bit of a bad taste still.
I get out of work in an hour, I plan on feeding real good, water change, shut off skimmer and uv, (bio pellet reactor leave on?)
<If you'd like... just supplies C>
and dosing Prazi, again 5 days from now and after resuming therapy level of copper again.
I feel good now, thanks!!
<Welcome. B>
achilles update; Re flukes 12/3/14
Hey Bob-
<Rob>
Just wanted to be courteous and give you an update. You did offer sound advice, and I feel you not knowing the outcome would be unfair.
<Ok!>
With that said, I am on day four of the Prazi, and all I can say is "wow".
The Achilles eye has improve 100 percent, and he is starting to eat more, and seems to be putting on some mass.
<Ah good>
Consequently, I have seen some worm like structures floating in the water column, and other fish, including my aussie tusk, and durgeon trigger, look to be perfecting there look. The trigger looked okay, but since the induction of Prazi pro, has had white marks surfacing and falling off his body.
<Not surprising... as you'll see from reading, there are MANY worm parasites... in aquatic environments, terrestrial...>
I have one more day, will complete a 25 percent water change, and dose one more time for 5 days. Hopefully that will cut it, but knowing me, I will play it safe and hit it one more time.
Perhaps the most aggravating part of this whole endeavor is preventing this.
<?>
My fish had all be quarantined in copper and Prazi, my tank was bleached out and restarted, and this new Achilles was in the local lfs tank for four months, seemingly no signs of ich or flukes. (I visit there 2-3 times a week). Why it snowballed in my tank, I guess the answer is it needed only one to get it started.
<Mmm; yes>
Thanks again Bob. I am trying to be smarter this time around, not a shoot and ask questions later type. What makes that tough is the dollar sign next to some of these fish.
Thanks, Bob
<And you for this follow up. Happy holidays. BobF>

Zebrasoma Flavescens in quarantine 6/11/14
Hello again Mr. F.
<Mr. A>
A quick question: I have 2 Zebrasoma flavescens in quarantine for well over 2 weeks now and they looked very good since day one, absolutely no white spots on them, are eating very good , they actually got fat , I fed them a lot and they have live rock covered with algae in there and they always graze around. There is no flashing, but the only problem is that from the beginning they seem to breath very rapidly. At first I thought they were scared
<A week is more than long enough with most all Surgeons; esp. Zebrasoma spp.... And yes to being stressed in quarantine settings; much more to be lost in delaying... move them>
and adapting but they still do it, even if they come and eat while I am there so they are no longer afraid.
I know ( too well unfortunately ) that this could be a sign of Cryptocaryon or even worse Amyloodinium but is the only sign and as I told they are eating and grazing all day.
<Highly doubtful>
When could I introduce them to the DT? Do you think there is reason to worry? Anyway I always dip in freshwater and blue Methylene before introduction to the DT, but I have in there very valuable and sensitive fishes and I don`t know what to do.
Thank you,
Andrei from Romania

Tanged and confused: Oversized fish, Flukes 10/20/2009
Hi there,
<Hello>
I bought a 55 gallon fish tank a little over a week ago. I bought the whole set up from a man who had a 20 gallon refugium with gravity feed hose and a protein skimmer (not sure on the name) My test kits are kind of old so I have been taking the water to the LFS to be tested and every time (3x's) it has been fine.

I am a little worried a because of the fish that this man had kept in the tank. He had a Clown fish (about 3 in) a Sailfin Tang (about 4 in)
<The Sailfin Tang needs to find a new home, way to big in the long run, and likely too big now considering he has been in the tank at least two years.>
these two he had had for about 2 years and then he had added more recently (with in the last few weeks) a Blue Tang (1.5 in)
<Also way to large for this tank, although he fits in the tank physically now, psychological stress can be caused by being kept in such a small tank.>
As far as aggression goes they are all fine. The Blue Tang hides often and the other two let her. Though I know I will need to upgrade to a 150 gal or larger in the future or re-home one of the Tangs, for now they seem to be doing fine.

The problem I have seen is with the Blue Tang. I have seen whitish circular spots on her and her belly is looked swollen. She has also been scratching A LOT and so my hunt for a cause and cure started. I have been reading up on your site for 2 days now and it sounds like monogenetic Trematodes though I have been overwhelmed by the amount of information out there. She swims oddly (no other way to really say that) spends most of her time hiding or at the top of the tank (often face down). She has been eating and seems happy enough so that's a plus. I need help in how best to treat this.
< I would recommend a Prazi treatment in a separate quarantine tank, there are several products available commercially including PraziPro, however there are other options for treatment, read here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/fshwrmidcuref.htm.>
Also because I bought this as a complete set up I do not have a QT set up though I am going to set one up today. I am however unsure as to how to set up a QT in one day'¦ maybe use cycled water from my tank and add new salt water to my display? Then use the sponge my in my refugium as a filter in my QT and replace with another sponge though I do have a 5 gallon refugium I could use (your thoughts on
this)?
<That sounds like an excellent start, make sure to provide some flow, and during medications you use be sure to make sure the water is adequately aerated, although the powerhead may take care of that depending on the tank you set up. Just make sure to pick up a test kit and continually test this "quarantine" water and administer water changes as needed.>
Am I off base in any way? Please point me in the right direction. Thank you for your time.
<I think you have a good start to your research, and I would highly recommend setting up a quarantine and treating your fish. However, both of the tangs should be returned or gifted to another aquarium keeper with a minimum of a 6ft tank for them to be kept in.>
Sabrina
<Good luck,
Josh Solomon.>

Tang spots 2/16/08 Hi Crew, <David> I previously posted ...but after over 2 weeks the "issue" keeps returning. I have a 3"-4" Scopas Tang that I've had for about 2 months. Starting about 3 weeks ago he displayed flashing, periodic scratching, heavy breathing, then several faint soft-edged spots just in front of his tail( in order of symptom appearance). First it was only on one side, but within a couple of hours it was on both sides. The spots progressed into a larger "patch" made up of the spots. The patch/spots only appear above his tail.( see pic) I quarantined all of my fish and treated with QuickCure ( Formalin & Malachite Green). Within minutes of the first dose the Tang looked much better - normal color and patch seemed less apparent, less labored breathing. 3 days of QuickCure ... filter in. Next day the patch returned ( approx same location)! Complete tank cleaning and 3 more days of treatment. Again, Tang looked much better - one might even be tempted to say he looked "cured". Again, insert carbon filter ...24 hours ...white spot, same location ...with labored breathing! Other 3 fish removed to a second QTank ( no signs of disease). So, I've started the 3rd round of treatments with QuickCure. Today is day 2. My question is ...is this Ich or Velvet or some other nefarious ( I threw that in for drama) parasite? See attached picture. The patch has been more distinct, but that's what he looks like today. Ich, Velvet, Other ...? <Other> Suggestions on treatment alternatives? <Time going by, careful observation> A beer to the one who successfully gets this Tang "cured";) <Oh!> A sincere thanks for your time and thoughts. David <This tang is damaging itself by "flicking" the tang on this, its favorite side... likely in response to its own reflection (internally, inside the tank). Try placing a piece of paper on the side it seems to stay most on "jousting" and be patient. Bob Fenner>

Re: Tang spots 2/17/08 Hi Bob, No beer awarded yet ... but I'll put one on ice just in case;) <Ooh, stop teasing> I will try the paper suggestion, but new symptoms have appeared! The Tang has 5-6 quickly developed individual soft-edged spots on one side of his "chest" ( resembling the original spots just above his tail) and now appears to have something ( not quite cloudy) on both eyes! He's stopped eating, and over the course of the day the spots on his chest have gone through a transformation from slightly visible to distinct and now have diminished to the point that I can only identify (1) spot. I've observed each morning he seems to look great, <Am curious as to whether these spots/marks re-appear everyday, grow in number> or at least good, but his condition diminishes with the day. While I haven't witnessed any "jousting", his temperament could be characterized as more aggressive with frequent bullying for a corner position with the bi-color Damsel that was sharing the QT (these fish have been removed to QT2). <Good> Sans tank-mates, he has just been slowly swimming around the tank. Also, I have seen a marked improvement whenever the Tang is receiving the QuickCure. <Perhaps akin to you gargling seawater for a sore throat...> Each time the spot(s) seems to retreat, color becomes vibrant and his overall health looks to have improved - sometimes to the point of "cured". Assuming I am up against a parasite, I dosed the fish today and over-dosed ( 20%) when spots returned, monitoring for any signs of distress. Several hours have gone by and again he seems to have improved after receiving medication! <Dosing... the formalin/copper? Where? Not in the main tank I hope/trust> Tell me to "take my foot off" the QuickCure and I will ...but I fear the beer might never be awarded:( <Me too> Thanks again for your thoughts. David <Do you have access to a microscope... even of low (a few hundred X) magnification? Facility of using? I would be chary of continuing the exposure to the active ingredients of QC with this or any other Tang, fishes period... If it can be determined that this is indeed a parasite definitively, more specific (less general biocidal) treatment may be proscribed... Otherwise, I still stand with my non-high-confidence guess that the root of the issue here is environmental. Bob Fenner>

Re: Re: re: Tang spots 2/17/08 Hi Bob, The spots come and go, but seem to have a "life expectancy" as they change throughout the day. <A useful bit of data> I don't have a microscope ( put that on list of things to buy next). However, the spots on the Tang's eyes appear to be a small ( grain of salt size) soft-edged sphere(s) with what look like tendril-like branching roots extending out randomly. <Interesting... perhaps a trematode...> Spots on the abdomen came and went and have been replaced by a new spot. Several smaller white grains have appeared around its eyes. Pectoral fins have a "moldy" look to them which also has come and gone over the course of the day. Unbelievably the Tang is still hanging in there, but I suspect its life expectancy has already been determined:( <Am not generally subject to much belief in pre-destinies> Any advice ...a last ditch attempt ...some rare experimental medication recently developed from the stamen of some endangered Amazon flower? The fish has shown real heart ...I'd hate to give up on it. Thx again. David <Where is this specimen again? If not in the main display, I would make the bold move and summarily pH-adjusted FW dip and move it thus. BobF>

Re: Re: Re: re: Tang spots Thanks for the quick reply Bob. <Welcome David> ...freshwater dip (ph adjusted) until any signs of distress or 6 minutes ...which ever comes first? <Yes... aerated> Then move to display tank? I see where you're going with this ...seems worth a try. I'll let you know what happens ...TBC. Thx. David <Should all be fine. BobF>

Re: Re: Re: Re: re: Tang spots Good morning Bob, <David> As prescribed, FW dip about 6 min, then right into the display tank. Rough night ...but Tang is alive ( see attached photo). However, it's looked good every morning ... only to look horrible by afternoon and evening:( Spots seem to have disappeared ...except for several on its left eye. Small specks with some cloudiness. <Patience my friend> Lights out for the day... it couldn't possibly be something that is part parasite with a photosynthetic ability? <Not likely, no> Next problem ... eating. This fish is very thin and has refused brine shrimp(!), Nori and an algae based feed ( Source One?). <Try Spectrum pellets of small size/diameter... remarkably palatable> ?, the other 3 fish, False Clown, Bi-color Damsel and a 3 Stripe Damsel ...dip and return home or leave in QT? <I'd leave them for now> Here's hoping I need to FedEx a beer to some distant state;) <Mmm, what town do you inhabit? What brand of beer?> A sincere thanks for your assistance thus far. <Welcome> PS - I have a Chiton that I've had for about 2 weeks. I didn't QT for fear of it starving. How does one, or do they, ensure that nothing "rides in" on this new addition? FW dip? <Not to worry here... this planet, life is not discrete in such vectoring/conventions... all is a matter of "degree"... With other tendencies, influences in your favor, all will be well here. Please take a scan: http://wetwebmedia.com/mardisease.htm This idea set is one of my few important models to grant others> If so, how long? Thx. David
<Bob Fenner>

Ahhh, mas mejor. RMF.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: re: Tang spots 2/19/08 Bob, <David> Do you have a cell phone number in case something happens to the tang really early in the morning? <Heeeee!> Just kidding;) Seriously, thx for the great advice. I'm sure The Crew has saved many... while educating the care givers on the diverse habits and needs of all these wonderful LFS purchases;) <It is indeed... a mission, a cause célèbre... expression of the desire to share awareness, inspire other folks to appreciate, enjoy, have success... twixt themselves and the living/aquatic worlds> I'm located in Western Massachusetts, 5 minutes from Amherst, MA ( 5 colleges - Amherst, UMASS, Hampshire, Mt Holyoke and Smith). <Mmm... a bit far from HI and San Diego, Ca... But am hopeful we will indeed meet in proximity> No matter the outcome you have earned your beer. Address? <Thank you, but let's wait till that time of meeting. Knowing that you and your Zebrasoma have gained is sufficient thanks> PS - careful when you open it as the contents were probably subjected to rapid changes in motion;) Paix David <Salutem dicit, Bob Fenner>

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: re: Tang spots Bob, today's pic entitled: "Tang foraging" ...evidence of your successful guidance, my thanks ...and the Tang's recovery ( I'm sure it thanks you also). <Ahhh!> If our paths ever cross I owe you a gallon of beer. <Almost getting worth jumping on a cross continent jet!> Now I'm off to click a couple of WWM sponsor ads;) Sincerely, David
<Congratulations on your success David. BobF>

ID - Please Can you tell me what is hanging from my purple tangs rear end?? It's certainly not the usual muck. Thank you, Julie. <Mmm, appears to be a good-sized mass of worms... likely Nematodes... though it might be Acanthocephalans... I would be treating this fish/system with a vermifuge... Likely Levamisole... please see WWM re such. Bob Fenner>

Unusual growth on Purple Tang (Zebrasoma xanthurum) 12/10/07 Hello Crew, <Ron> Thanks for taking the time to review my query! For the first time today, I noticed a dark fuzzy/hairy growth on my Purple Tang (Zebrasoma xanthurum) -- passengers side near the tail. ; ) I have searched the web and WWM but can't seem to find anything that fits the profile of a dark gray/black 'hairy' growth. <Could you send along a well-resolved pic? Oh, I see the links below> Nobody in my local Reef Club (RASOC) had any suggestion either. It seems that most accounts of spots or growths on fish are white, unless it involves black speckles or a generally discolored spot. Perhaps my search query is lacking some keyword. However, I would definitely have to describe this growth as hairy or fuzzy in appearance since it appears to be a cluster of 'hairs'. When I look back at earlier pictures that I have taken, I can see that this spot was there in some form a month ago. It is approximately 2 mm in diameter. It doesn't seem to bother the Tang as far as I can tell. I have an active Cleaner Shrimp and he doesn't seem to be concerned about it either. Here are the best pics I can get of the growth. I am providing a couple of Flickr links in lieu of sending pictures that may be too large (hope that is ok). Feel free to upload and post if you desire. http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2022/2098256828_b98c969b7d.jpg http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2188/2097478823_335152a998.jpg Do you have any idea what it could be?? If so, would you recommend treatment or merely observation for now? Ron <")))>< Charlotte, NC <Might be a crustacean parasite... looks in outline like a pair/two copepods... A shame to stress this animal by netting, but if the occasion presents itself, I would use two nets, capture this fish and gently try prising off this mark with blunt nose tongs (ask your wife re maybe...). IF there is any sign of blood from doing so, do daub (with a "Q tip") a bit of mercurochrome/Merthiolate/Merbromin on to the spot. I see what appears to be the antennae of a Lysmata sp. in the background... In time, this cleaner may remove this mark... Otherwise, I doubt if it is really debilitating, and strongly sense that it is not "catching". Cheers, Bob Fenner>

Re: Unusual growth on Purple Tang (Zebrasoma xanthurum) 12/10/07 Bob, <RonF> Thank you for the information you provided. The pictures closely represent the view one gets with the naked eye. Perhaps I will try to use my digital zoom to get a closer pic, in order to see if it is indeed some sort of crustacean. I am hesitant to stress the Tang out by netting it, as you alluded. For now, I will observe and hope that the Cleaner ultimately resolves the issue. Ron <")))>< <Ahh! This is what I would do as well. Cheers, BobF>

Sail Fin Tang... HLLE and Trematodes... -11/27/2007 I have a Sail fin tang. He has small holes all over his body and fins. I thought it was Ick but have not had any luck treating for Ick. <Are likely flukes... and neuromast destruction...> The best way to describe is the holes with something white in the middle of them. Something seems to be eating away at the skin. I have attached a very large photo so you can zoom in. Any help would be appreciated! Thanks, Brian Safian <... I would treat... successively... with Metronidazole... then Praziquantel... see WWM re the use of these compounds... AND you need to address your water quality and nutrition... Something is amiss here that has allowed the HLLE to advance... see WWM re HLLE causes/cures... Write back with specific issues... Bob Fenner>

Re: Sail Fin Tang... hlth. f' 11/27/2007 Bob, <Brian> I have been putting Metronidazole in food regularly for about a month <This is MUCH too long for exposure to this material> and I treated the tank with PraziPro. <This... should have "done it"> Some folks have suggested I do the formalin dip as that is also effective against Flukes and Ich and maybe feed Metronidazole while the fish are in QT after formalin dip. Basically, setup QT tank, do Formalin dips and then put fish into QT tank for a while. My next question is, "Does the eel need treatment." <...? What eel?> I know most flukes and worms can be fairly species specific and this one might only go after tangs. <Likely so> I just do not know what the resistance to flukes is by different fish or eels. <Many species are almost commensals...> I know that in tank treatment is not recommended by most, but having a fish only tank might be able to get away with dosing Praziquantel in the tank? <Is done... frequently. Often times with success... though the issue of co-interactions is pertinent... may absorb the medicant/s> If it is not recommended, what the life cycle of the fluke is and that way you know how long your QT has to be for. <What?> Thanks, Brian Safian <See WWM, the Net re Trematode diseases of fishes... BobF>

Re: Sail Fin Tang... hlth. 11/29/07 OK....Let me clarify. The Sail Fin Tang is in a FO tank with a Naso tang and a Snowflake Eel. The Naso and Eel have no signs parasites what so ever. Last night I gave the Sail Fin a 45 Minute Formalin bath. <... depending on strength/concentration, this is too long for formalin exposure> It seems today that several, but not all the holes are empty so it may have gotten some of the flukes off. Everyone seems to think I should bring the tank into Hypo, which I may begin stepping down today. Sorry for the confusion Brian <... please, don't write; read instead... on WWM re hyposalinity... RMF>

Sick Vlamingii Tang Hey guys! at work we have this Vlamingii Tang that has had HLLE before and it looks like it is coming back. :( But in addition to HLLE he has these gray/black skittle (candy) sized bumps on him, and some smaller ones. Most of the bumps have little tiny white dots at the tip of em (about the size of a grain of sand). These bumps/parasite/infection seem to be increasing every two days, and the bumps are located on the gills and 2 inches before his spines. what is this infection called and how can I treat it? <Don't know exactly what this is... would take at least catching the fish, scraping a bit off, looking under a scope... perhaps a "worm" parasite stage, or a protozoan...> but the catch is the tank is 3200 gallons and has lots of other fish like puffers, triggers, wrasses, angels, and groupers. No one else in the tank has these bumps. treating the whole tank is not really an option, nor is giving him a special diet, while he is in the 3200gal tank. I'll net him and put him in the hospital tank but want should I do from there, treat him with chemicals? fresh water dips? vitamin enriched foods? <Vitamin and medicine treated foods. There are vermicides/fuges like Praziquantel and Piperazine that I would "lace" (mix in) much as described on WWM in the Pond subweb for Furunculosis treatment. I would do this first, in a large treatment tank, for a few weeks (2,3) and see if there is marked improvement. Don't worry re re-infestation, as this parasite very likely has a complex life cycle with at least one or more missing intermediate hosts/vectors in your main system. Bob Fenner>

Tang with Fin Rot? Hi guys, <whassssup?> You have a great website! <thank you... pass it along. The "great website" part... not the "thank you": that was just for you> I have two questions for you. We have a 75 gallon tank with a yellow tang, tomato clown and a cleaner wrasse. I think my yellow tang may have fin rot! I have found lots of information on your website on how to treat it, but I want to confirm that is indeed what is wrong. His tail looks split in some areas, and in general it's more transparent than it used to be. <eroding? could be fin rot if restricted to one or few fishes> Same for his top fin. Does that sound like fin rot? <possibly... but is the wrasses spending way too much time on him? Some will "clean" fishes raw> I'm pretty sure he isn't being harassed by the clown fish. He pretty much ignores him. Assuming it is fin rot, we put in some Melafix. <such homeopathic remedies are weak at best. Some are snake oil... or tea oil :)> We have seen minor improvement in his fins, <natural healing... healthy fish> and he is acting fine. However, our Alveopora, which has done wonderful for over a year now, doesn't seem to like the medicine (his 'flower pot tentacle' don't come out, or are only short stubs). I didn't think we had to do a quarantine for this type of medicine, but would this be a better option? <quarantine is necessary for all medications... especially in tanks with such invertebrates that filter feed and absorb nutrients every day through great volumes of now "medicated" water. Please do a large water change and add poly filters/carbon> I'd appreciate a confirmation of our diagnosis and treatment! <a picture would be helpful. Else, send the tang to QT with a Nitrofurazone/Furazolidone combo drug> I really don't want to lose this guy, or even more so, the Alveopora! Thanks, Amy <best regards, Anthony>

The Parasites Won... Robert or Jason, <<JasonC here>> Well all of my fish died of what appears to be velvet except my big, fat blue hippo. <<oh, I am sorry to hear this.>> He is actually doing well. <<some good news!>> He eats lots of medicated flakes and thoroughly utilizes my 2 cleaner shrimps. When I FW dipped all the ones that died these strange things came off them. They looked like white shrimpy looking things with two long antennae like horns coming out of one end. Do you have any idea what these were? <> None of these came off my Alive Hippo thank goodness), but I did get a few small white things with two black dots like eyes) off him. Have no idea what these were either. They looked very similar to Mysis shrimp, only smaller. <<same thing, doubt it was something severe, but better off the tang than on, I suppose.>> Can a Tang die from sadness? <> He is very sad that he is all alone. <<he's not, he's got two cleaner shrimp waiting on him hand and foot, uh... fin.>> He is a very SHY fish and only comes out to eat unless other fish are in the tank, which none are. <<probably just a little bugged out as to where everyone just went. Will get over it.>> How long must we wait to get him any friends? <> And will he get a long with a smaller Achilles tang? <<probably not - it's best to keep one tang to a tank with 50 gallons.>> Which is the best tang to get to befriend a Blue Hippo? <<none at this juncture.>> We also wanted to get either another pair of True perculas or Maroon clowns, will tangs get a long with these? <<sure, but think about the perculas, maroons have a reputation for being a little mean.>> Should we get all new arrivals in one day, or break it up and if so, which should we get last? <<I'm a big fan of adding only one thing at a time, and then waiting a month or so before the next add. You will be quarantining these fish before you add them to your main tank, yes?>> How many fish can we have in a 50 gal? Is 6 too many? <<not if they are all very small and will stay small>> Thanks in advance for your wonderful advice. <<You are quite welcome. Cheers, J -- >>

Surgeonfishes: Tangs for Marine Aquariums
Diversity, Selection & Care
New eBook on Amazon: Available here
New Print Book on Create Space: Available here
by Robert (Bob) Fenner