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fennerrobert(at)hotmail.com

New WetWebNews Bob, I made up a new WetWebNews page today with a prominent ad for the new book. Check it out here--> http://www.wetwebmedia.com/PondSubWebIndex/WetWebNews/index.htm Also, if you or anyone else in the WWM crew have any favorite or interesting FAQ's, please post them on the WWN page and update the date. I just randomly go into the site and pick the FAQ's out now and they may not be the most interesting ones. <Yikes... where is that Barb? Hey, where is that Jason.C? and CA??? Bob F> Mike

Temperate Starfish... is it warm in here? Hi Bob, 11 days ago I found a star fish at Myrtle Beach. It traveled home and I have setup a tank for her. She seems to be doing fine. I would like to know what she is and how to take care of her. She's gray on top with teeth like spines all round her arms. They are reddish at the base and white on the tips. She is peach and orange underneath. I also brought sand and shells from her beach to setup my tank with. She likes to bury herself under the sand. This morning I found her completely on the glass, which to me is a social improvement. Please help me if you can, or at least point me in the right direction. Thank you so much, Tammy Shilling <my friend... this is a temperate species that will suffer and die in time if not provided with chilled water. Even room temperature is too warm for year around maintenance. And a tank without a heater will allow temperature fluctuations that are even more stressful between night and day. I'm sorry to be a buzzkill, but such animals belong in the ocean if they cannot be provided for adequately in captivity. Temperate species need refrigeration units (chillers) that cost nearly $1000 for hobbyists models. Without it, your starfish will hang in there for some months perhaps. Over a year in rare cases. My advice is to find a local public aquarium that will take it in assuming they have temperate species displays. Best regards, Anthony>

Adding The "Clean-Up" Crew Ok, ok, so I know this is going to make me sound like a total newbie, even after doing this for years I do consider myself one anyway. Every time I set up a tank I feel like it is the very first time, but as you probably know there is a popular on-line vendor who sells clean up crews that include a LARGE number of animals. <Yes, I have seen several of these offers.> They claim that you can add ALL of the snails and star fish and crabs to your aquarium all at one time without a problem. I'm QUITE skeptical. <You should be. All be skeptical of what any person selling you something says.> What are your thoughts on this? <I much prefer to pick and choose what species and how many specimens my particular system needs. I work in the aquarium maintenance business and after setting up many identical systems, I can tell you that no two run exactly alike. There are always differences, even when I take care of all the maintenance, in how much people feed and that makes a big difference in how many cleaners they need. If you do not have enough algae to go around, the hermits crabs will begin to eat all your snails.> I'm more inclined to add a few at a time and let the filter <And the algae amounts> adjust before adding more. Is it stupid to add upwards of 50 creatures all at once <If you had a 200 gallon tank, I could see adding 50 snails at once. Otherwise, no add a few and see how things change.> (I can't believe I'm even ASKING that :-)? Is it a bad idea to buy on-line in the first place? Wes <No, not a bad thing to buy on-line period. Just take everything with a grain of salt when purchasing anything, anywhere (e-tailer, mail-order, or LFS). An educated consumer is a hobbyist that will never get ripped off. If you choose to not educate yourself PRIOR to purchase, you will eventually get taken. -Steven Pro>

Sight-impaired Goldfish Hi there <Hello> We have two small goldfish. We often see one of them swimming sideways and have recently noticed that one of his pupils is larger than the other. Is it possible that he is blind in one eye and this is what makes him swim sideways, or should we be concerned that his enlarged pupil and sideways swimming are symptoms of a more serious problem and, if so, is there something we can do? I hope I've provided enough information - I'm new to this! <It is indeed a possibility that the fish is blind on the one side, and quite astute of you to make, relate the observations above, link them... Not much to do in this case other than provide excellent care. I have had several goldfish and ornamental carp (nishikigoi, Cyprinus carpio, a related coolwater species) that were unilaterally or totally blind... and they seemed to be fine... eating with the their tank/pondmates and living for several years. Bob Fenner> Thanks very much, Glenys Edinburgh, UK

Skimmers, when is enough - enough! Hello again, you have answered my questions before and I thank you. Also for the great site. It is habit forming. Just one quick question, is it possible to have a skimmer that is too big or efficient for a tank? <Yes> If it is what are the drawbacks? <Skimmers remove both good and bad things. IMO, skimmers are far more valuable by removing the bad and whatever good things they remove are outweighed by their positive aspects. Generally, if you follow the manufacturer's ratings you will never even come close to over skimming. Many manufacturers overstate their skimmers performance and capacity. Stick to a good brand and its ratings and you should be fine.> OK, that was two questions... <That is ok. They were good, valuable questions that I am sure others will like to read. -Steven Pro>

Re: Make up water Hi Anthony, a few days have past with my new meters, and I am seeing a depressed PH that is starting to scare me. Up to now I have changed about 50 gallons of water in my 125 g tank, and have another 15 g ready to go. <do make a larger water change like the last one... 15G is hardly enough to make a dent in a problem that requires dilution> The pH in my tank is still dropping (recalibrated meter to be sure it was accurate). Yesterday the PH in the AM was 7.62 and rose slowly to 7.82 by 8:30 PM ( I did add a very small amount of Kalk to help raise the PH). The Calcium and DKH are stabilizing and are now at 340 and 11 respectively. This morning I find the PH at 7.58...ouch! My ORP has been rising with the water changes and is now at 347. My corals look fine. <exactly... even with the low pH, slow changes are fine and this is the lesser of two evils. Fussing too much with Alk and Ca like a seesaw is a good way to kill coral and fish. Simply have faith in the water changes/dilution in time to get you in a reasonable ballpark and only after a series of these w/cs and stable readings then resume supplementation> I wanted to add some Xenia to my tank and bought a small specimen last week, and am really scared I'll kill it at this PH. <it really was a bad move. Xenia are very sensitive to low pH. But now that you have it... please don't stress it with another move. Just a few more big water changes to get back on track> Interestingly it was pulsing slowly last night at this depressed PH. Any thoughts as to why my PH might be so low even after water changes? <it is natural until all salts dissolve. Still... not the main issue here either. Two more water changes and then back to Ca and Alk supplementation. Kalk or Baking soda if not a Calcium Reactor> I have good circulation in my tank, I tried the probe in all depths and locations and the PH remains constant. Thanks Larry <have you tried aerating a sample of water and seeing if the pH rises after 6-12 hours. If it rises... you have a CO2 problem. Not enough aeration. Kindly, Anthony>

White worms crawling on the glass of my aquarium I have a 90 gal. tank with four discus in it which is also planted.I have noticed what appears to be small white worms crawling on the glass and swimming freely, can you tell me what they are? <Not specifically... as in down to species. But I assure you, these are likely some sort of inocuous earthworm-like animal (oligochaete annelid) and not harmful to your fish or system. These sorts of critters "pop-up" quite often, particularly in aquariums that have excess food, too little circulation/filtration... and very often "disappear" of their own accord. Do keep your eye on water quality and in time you will likely find they have gone. Bob Fenner>

Feeding the reef Hiya, is it ok to feed minced scallops to my reef & fish. I've read something about them but forgot where, saying it wasn't a wise idea, so I just ask to make sure. <as a filter feeder and low down on the totem pole, scallops are more likely to contain contaminants like heavy metals. If bought from a pet food mfg, I'd feel comfortable... but from the grocery store... perhaps raw cocktail shrimp would be better :)> the corals just LOOOOVE the recipe from your book :-)...it made a huge improvement on my trachyphilias. <excellent to hear... Bob is a wise fellow indeed. With kind regards, Anthony Calfo WWM crew> thank you. Stefi/UK

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RE: WWN > If you guys have a better idea, let's here it. I have one! :-) A disconnected/unlinked page in WWM that is a repository for "WWNews-worthy" FAQ candidates, that can be populated (with a grouping/identification by date and/or topic?) by Barb, Bob, or whomever is doing the daily clean-up and distribution off the dailyQ&a page. You could use that page as a sort of pre-screened source for producing the WWNews... <Instead of... picking out "the best of"?> Since I'm not the guy who'd have to paste submissions there, I can't really talk much, I s'pose! -Zo <Mmm, all reasonable ideas, input are appreciated... As the person who doesn't produce WWN I don't know much here (kind of Desdemonesque eh?), and don't have time to "do". Bob F>

WWN See the latest WetWebNews here--> http://www.wetwebmedia.com/PondSubWebIndex/WetWebNews/index.htm <Have done so, very nice. Like the new sponsor on the bottom already! Miguel, could you modify the "new articles" statement going forward to be "new content on WWM" rather than by me? It's not and will be less so in future. Thank you, Bob F>

New WetWebNews (WWN) hot off the press! Bob, <Miguel> I just got done making up the new WetWebNews page. See it here--> http://www.wetwebmedia.com/PondSubWebIndex/WetWebNews/index.htm <'Bout time! Good to see it> I had to put it on the Ponds sub index so I could get at it from anywhere using a dial up connection. I added some new features and links to it. Could you do me a favor and link it up with the WetWebNews link on the WetWebMedia homepage? I can't do it from here. <Will do right now. Done. Thanks. Bob F> Cheers, Mike

Subscription to WetWebMedia News letter Dave, Thanks for bringing this to our attention. I will forward this to the rest of the WetWebMedia crew for a follow up. Thanks, Mike Kaechele Wetwebmedia.com <Miguel, have you been steadily producing this feature? Do you think it should be supplanted with the upcoming CA Online Zine? Bob F> Dave Stevens wrote: Hi, Just found your website - great job. However, I tried to subscribed and got the 404 error. I hope the subscription system was down for only a short time. I will try again tomorrow. Or, if there is a problem and the newsletter subscription feature is gone, please advise. Thanks. Dave Stevens

Error when trying to subscribe to newsletter Hi! I thought you might want to look into this issue. I tried to subscribe to the newsletter at wetwebmedia.com but when I click on the subscribe button I get an "HTTP 404 Error - File Not Found" from Internet Explorer 6.0. I also tried the "Edit Subscription" button with the same result. Enrique Muyshondt <Thanks much for this. Will send word along to "Magic Zo" as this is his gambit. Be chatting. Bob F>

New WetWebNews Get the latest edition of the WetWebNews. Click here ----> http://www.wetwebmedia.com/wwnews.htm <Great. Bob F> Mike

Unable to subscribe. Frank, I will forward this on to Lorenzo Gonzalez and Robert Fenner to try and resolve this for you. The actual server that runs the sign up for the WetWebNews is not the same as the one for the WetWebMedia site. We'll get back to you. Thanks, Mike Kaechele <Got me... Zo? Bob F> > Hi there, > I tried a few times to subscribe to the Wet Web weekly newsletter but kept > getting tome0outs to the server. Can you help? > Regards, > Frank Canzolino

New WWN edition Get your new edition of the WWN, hot off the press---> http://www.wetwebmedia.com/wwnews.htm <Hotay! Will post to new faqs tomorrow. Bob F> Mike

Featured Sponsor Mr. Brandstetter, Your logo and company are the featured sponsor in this weeks edition of WetWebNews, WetWebMedia weekly subscription e-mail. Go to the following link and take a look. <Great. Bob F> http://www.wetwebmedia.com/wwnews.htm Mike Kaechele mike@wetwebmedia.com

New WetWebNews Get it while it's hot off the press---> http://www.wetwebmedia.com/wwnews.htm <Styling. Bob F>

New WetWebNews Get your new WWN here--->http://www.wetwebmedia.com/wwnews.htm <Outstanding. Bob F> ===== "I never think of the future. It comes soon enough." Albert Einstein

RE: Daily "Wallpaper-size" Pic email out Ok Bob, I like the pictures and the subjects were never too long for my browser. I love the context too. Like the largest brain coral thing. Its great when you tell us interesting fish facts, like this species is used for an aphrodisiac on an obscure Caribbean island where Cameron Diez vacations <Hey, where was/is that?> - stuff like that. What do you think? <What, think?> Your fish friend, Jeff <Oh, mi Jefe! Wotta delight. Hope to see you on Monday night (ran into Carolion at the HD buying plants... Bob F>

New edition of WetWebNews, Hot off of the press Check out the latest edition of the WWN>http://www.wetwebmedia.com/wwnews.htm Mike mike@wetwebmedia.com <Well done Miguel. Like the pix choices. Bob F>

WWNews hits the press Mike, Sorry it took a me a coupla days to get that one out... it really looks good by the way! Hope to see you experiment some more with the look as time goes on... keep it fresh! 212 subscribers... and counting. <<Great growth... Need to be be consistent on mail-out... Bob F> -PostMastahZo

overflow box for sale? Hi Bob Fenner, I was wondering where would be a good place to post for sale an overflow box that I have, (it is brand new, when I hooked it up and got everything going, I realized I needed a bigger one). I read on the WetWebMedia chat forum where someone suggested listing things for sale on rec.aquaria.marketplace <It's an electronic "BB" Bulletin Board... look on/through your ISP (service provider) for access to same...> but I don't know what that is,... a website? How do you get there? ( I am familiar with the internet, but no forums, chat rooms, and such) Hopefully you have a suggest,... or you could just call Todd for me at Custom Aquatics and tell him Bob Fenner said to take it back ! (just joking, Todd's my friend - I work right around the corner from Custom Aquatics and bug these guys all the time :) Anyway, thanks for any suggestions, Jana <Oh! We live in the same town then. Todd, I and crew and friends were up at an industry trade show in Anaheim just a couple of weekends back. Bob Fenner>

Re: overflow box for sale? (Zo, is this answer enough?) rec.aquaria.marketplace really would be best. It's a Usenet News Group, that has a much larger, busier readership that the WWM chat forums (infancy!) currently boast. Like Bob said, your ISP should be able to help you find/access/post to the newsgroups... usually using a newsreader like the one built into Netscape Messenger (and Outlook Express I believe?) You'd probably sell it pretty easily on eBay as well. Cheers, Lorenzo <Thanks for the addendum Zo. See you week after next! Bob F>

RE: overflow box for sale? (Zo, is this answer enough?) Tradeshow? Sounds like fun. <Yes, there are such things even in the diffuse industries which are pet-fish biz...> Thanks, Bob Fenner ! I'll give this a try. <Be chatting my friend. Bob Fenner>

Fennerisms Woozah Bob! The forty gallon gal here. >Zo: > Be chatting! (you should SEE the number of 'Fennerisms' on the forum - it's HILARIOUS.) > > [grin] > <Do notice them... a tremendous asset... likely soon to be reducing > crime around the world, > increasing ophthalmological bills! Bob> Hmm, all you do is refer everybody to the chat room and Zo finds someone who can do the software and you guys can retire to travel the world and go to *more* exotic places. We may not give as good advice as you, but at least we keep the Fennerisms living on and on. <<There's some sort of clever retort due here, but I can't come up with it>> As one of the greatest proponents of Fennerisms, (good to hear/read, huh? ;-)) Please read up on these www.wetwebmedia.com/fennerism.htm... Be chatting, Your friend in fish, --Jane aka des with tongue firmly in cheek... <Not touching that one either. Be chatting, Bob Fenner>

Re: WWN Youch. It's pretty time consuming as it is, though I've worked out a slightly better routine each time. I've usually tried to throw in a couple more FAQs, but building the 'text-only' version is pretty tedious. I'll have to work on a better, more automated routine for getting this thing out, then maybe we can start looking at twice-weekly or something? <Mo'is mo' bettah... Or something like this. Our participation/counts are soaring... Miguel is still on the warpath for improving the site, even selling ad space... Pete's determined to get some video on WWM... lots to come. Bob F> -Zo

WWN (sign up now!) Bob--I really enjoy getting and reading the WWN newsletter. The only complaint I have is that it could be a little longer, and could come out a little more frequently! Other than that, keep it up! A great service to the hobby! <Thank you for this James. Will circulate to Zo and Mike... see what they think... would like to expand WWN and make it daily even... just finding funds to wiggle in front of the free help (including m'self) is tough. Bob F>

Re: Euphyllia divisa in Pulau Redang, Malaysia... now a wallpaper Hi, This is a WAY awesome picture!! But just a comment. You might send a little note saying you are sending a picture or any other attachment. I normally don't open them as this is a good way of spreading a virus. (The virus spreaders just somehow hook them onto familiar people's email). Anyway, other than that it is a wonderful picture, and I am happy you sent it. <Thank you for this... have added your e-mail address to my daily mail out (so aquatic type friends can have a 24h change-out of their wallpaper. Please let me know if this is too much of a bother. Bob Fenner>

Re: daily photo mail ><Thank you my friend. Would really like to include such worthwhile >excerpts/quotations and daily image e-mail outs to all interested... That's a big CanDo, Bob... I can easily setup a separate list for you to do this with. And any email you send to it will automatically be sent to all subscribers, no further input from you. Wanna try it out? Send me the list of email addresses you normally send the photos to each day. <Yeeikes... hope this isn't going to be more work than fun for you Zo> I'll auto- subscribe them to a new 'daily-photo' list - then maybe later we can set a subscription page on WWM, just like WWNews... Literally, all you'll do is send your email to the list address, and everything will go from there. <Just as I dreamed it might. Bob F... pls find the 140 or so on this list currently... Hope that it will help Mike to sell ad space as well as "pump up" our friends, associates.> -Lorenzo

Re: WWNews Test Lorenzo, Looks great! I had the calendar thumbnail itself a link back to the calendar page, because sometimes people are used to clicking on thumbnail images to see the big picture. Talk with you soon. Mike <Zo, a note re costs. Though it is a long-term dream to actually pay us for our time, I want to offer what funds that do come WWM's way to pay our hard costs. Towards this ends, please send along a note/bill for registration, server time, gear, what have you. Otherwise, do look to the dates upcoming for the Interzoo at least (next May) and come out to the trade with us if you have interest (then diving in the Red Sea after). Bob F>

Re: Heteractis magnifica city (re a daily image) Great photo with great narration. <Thank you my friend. Would really like to include such worthwhile excerpts/quotations and daily image e-mail outs to all interested... Perhaps Zo will solve this mystery... and we can scavenge enough funds to pay for server time to send... Bob Fenner> Todd Gabriel

Re: Plerogyra simplex, Bubble Coral in Bunaken, Sulawesi, Indonesia (daily image sent) Hi Bob, How are you?? Good seeing you at the show. It would have been nice to chat a bit more, but things were quite hectic for me, and I'm sure for you also. <Yes my friend> Got a couple of emails today from you, the Plerogyra came out fine, but the Angel pic didn't open. Were these meant to come to me? If so there was no text attachment. <Yes, Chris. If these daily mail out pix (I use them, change as wallpaper daily) are too much, let me know and I'll drop you off the list. Bob Fenner> Anyway hope things are well, and stop by QM or give a call sometime. <Oh, will do so... am past due for a visit up north... need to write a couple of "happy industry stories", make pix for same. See you soon. Bob Fenner> Best Regards, Chris

Cyber and closer (seemingly) space Hi, I am trying to figure out how people are having conversations with you on line. <Hmm, you mean... like we are now?> I have written to you twice and never even received a reply.<Very strange... answer all queries> Please advise how I may talk live. <Live? I don't do... just this e-mail... We do have a chatforum: http://talk.wetwebfotos.com/ that may be more timely. Bob Fenner> Thank you Sandy Levy

Re: The 2d ed. of WWNews Bob, I'm not quite sure what you mean about the calendars. I already have a link to them on the page. Let's put a one calendar per week on the WWN. <A better idea> As far as putting a hyperlink on an image and then having someone be able to click on it while it's on their desktop as wallpaper to get back to WWM, it won't work unless you activate the active desktop feature which I will not even try to explain to people and which isn't a feature on Apple computers, I think. <Yikes, and bummer> Anyhow I will put one of the calendars on the WWN tonight. <Great. Want to go to Callahan's and celebrate?> Also I think most people like to look at the images but very few are actually putting them on their computer as wallpaper. Mike <Yeah, wish we knew how, could get something like Webshots software to automatically download there... with links back... Will send to Zo to take up even more of his day, RAM. Bob Fenner>

Re: The 2d ed. of WWNews >Also, can you show me how to affix our name as a link to these images >so that if/when folks click on it it will send them to WWM? That is unfortunately impossible. You can only put the name directly in the jpeg, then in the html make the image an href to the homepage. If the user is viewing the image outside of a browser/web-enabled email client, obviously this won't actually do anything. <Arrggghhh, well, can you show me how to walk on the ceiling then?> On a similar note, are you hoping to mail out the calendar images themselves? Or use thumbnails with links directly to the website, or something? <Uh, Mike?> -Lorenzo

WetWebNews the 2nd WetWebNews currently has 148 subscribers (we gained about 10 since the first mailing?)... <Don't know if it's spurious or directly correlated/able... but our unique ISP count took a HUGE jump this Sunday (3,874 for the day...). Zo, could be the new features could be propelling the sites visibility tremendously> Anybody preparing for the next one? I figure weekends are the best time for me to do the publish, since it does take a little time for the FP-free, html massage, 'text-only' formatting and final prep. But I do hope someone... mike...? will take care of the images and initial page layout. <Miguel... you said you would... any inkling of when the next "edition" will be ready for Zo... Um, do we post it on the WWM site like the last one?> On another note, the forums are starting to take off, and Bob even made an account and posted! Woohoo! -Lorenzo

New WWN news page I put some new images, sponsor and tried to choose some FAQ's but I don't really know what is interesting or not. Besides that I started running into problems with the FAQ's. I would paste one in and all of a sudden have double spaces in them. Please choose some of your favorite FAQ's to put in here. <Will do so. Goodnight my friend. Bob> Mike

The 2d ed. of WWNews Ready to go Zo... http://wetwebmedia.com/wwnews.htm Miguel, can we send this months calendars next week? I know it's mid-month but they're really spiffy, and think this will clue folks in as to their availability Also, can you show me how to affix our name as a link to these images so that if/when folks click on it it will send them to WWM? Bob F, who has tried this in a number of ways, no go.

WWNews Guys, If you're ready with the page at WWNews.htm, I'll go ahead and pull the source, so I can strip out all the ridiculous FrontPage garbage, fix the links, and prepare it to send... <Saw what Miguel did to improve the current WWN... incorporating a bunch of your ideas... looks good to me... Here tis: http://wetwebmedia.com/wwnews.htm I say go. What say you Mike? Bob> Lemme know. -Lorenzo

WetWebNews Bob, If you have a good copy of Mike's icon/banner, can you put it on DataPipe where I can get it? He sent the message to my hotmail account as well, but it's breaking there too - no image. :-( <Try here you boyz: http://wetwebmedia.com/wwnews.htm Very rudimentary, but an earnest beginning... couldn't place a name/logo/link for WWM on the image thumbnail itself today (rats) and make it work as such... and need more/better ideas for content, a border probably... who knows. But do want to give it/this a go. Bob F> I'm going to throw together a 'mock' mailing list, with just my three email addresses, you, and Mike, for testing our messages with different email clients, before we publish them to the real list. You don't need to do anything - but don't be surprised when you see the test messages... <Good luck to all of us.> -Zo-

Re: image mailing Hmmm.. Congratulations go to adillard@worldnet.att.net (whoever that is) as the first person to sign up for WetWebNews... :-) -Lorenzo <Yay! Now, when are we sending out our first try? Would it take too much time, trouble, just to stick our WWM name as a link on the daily pic I send out... to all? Bob F>

Re: image mailing Bob & Lo, The links to the new mailing page are in place on the homepage and left side bar of the WetWebMedia site. Now to settle on a format for the new page. First we will see if anyone signs up. Talk with you all later. Mike <Miguel... they will... and I'm going to "force send" this feature to a few hundred folks... via my email ability and hotmail... for selling ad space mainly... please do your best work here on the layout. Bob F>

Re: image mailing Hmmm. Sounds like you're planning on a full HTML/mime mailing... I for one can't read HTML in my email client, and when I can (hotmail for example) I try to turn it off, because it allows for easy 'spy-mail' in which a spammer can instantly validate your email address, his choice of 'subject' line, you're interest in 'subject' - if you merely open the mail and allow your client to load stuff from his webserver.... yuck. <Hmm, uhh, well... don't know much about much... let's make the images a link back to the full/er version on the WWM or WWF site (?)... maybe use this project as a spring (sprung?) board to start loading/building WWF?... Don't care if the whatchamacallit is in Persian m'self... as long as all works... Bob> So, you should probably figure out how to send a 'dual purpose' email - those emails that can be read like normal text, or viewed as a web page. Not exactly sure how to do this myself, but I'm confident I can figure it out - it's been done once, we can do it again. Barring that, we can setup a 'full-color glorious HTML mail' list, and a 'plain Jane, just-the-faqs, mam' list for those of us who despise HTML mail. thoughts? -Lorenzo

Re: image mailing (protocol... Bob is still lost in cyberspace) Gentlemen, The mailing list page is at: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/MailingLists.htm That's right, it's already on the DataPipe server, waiting for someone put a link to it! :-) Here's a step-by-step of signing up (more for Bob, Mike's done this plenty): 1. Enter info on above webpage 2. Reply to confirmation email sent by list server. 3. done Step-by-step of sending the newsletter out. 1. Send message to WetWebNews@mail.wetwebfotos.com 2. login to admin interface at http://mail.wetwebfotos.com/mailman/admin/wetwebnews 3. select 'Tend to pending administrative requests' 4. select 'Approve' checkbox on message. 5. click 'Save changes' at bottom of screen. 6. Done. Note that it's possible to remove all steps except Step 1. - by setting Mailman to auto-approve messages from your specific email address: i.e., all messages from mwk819@yahoo.com or BobFenner@WetWebMedia.com are instantly/automatically sent to all subscribers... that's up to you, and can be setup in the administrative interface at the above address (Step 2). What's nice about leaving the approval steps in, is it will give you an opportunity to remove the 'Free Mail at Yahoo' or 'Check out MSN Explorer!' tags that our freebie email services tack on the end of our messages! On another note, regarding my server sending the daily photograph: 1,000 subscribers x 80kb photograph = 1 hour (approx) of outbound mail That's No Big Deal. We can setup a separate mailing list for that, as I doubt EVERYBODY will want to receive a big fat JPEG everyday - then we do the sending late in the evening when bandwidth is a little better... -Lorenzo <Great... let's go... Miguel, will you formulate what this sucker will look like every mail out? Should have our logo/name... as a link hopefully, a space for a sponsors logo/link (free at this juncture, and we should rotate...), a pic, and a couple, three faqs... Anything else? Bob> > All, >Do you want me to put Wetwebmedia.com on the images like on the calendars? >I'm also a little confused as to where the e-mail listing page is (the >missing link) so we can link up to it. I thought Bob knew but he obviously >doesn't either because he is asking me where it's at. What is it we >need to do again? Please give me a step by step approach as to what >is needed to get this to work. >Mike

RE: A nice Ecsenius opsifrontalis pic Thanks for sending the fish-o-the-day, Its cool to get this kind of color in the morning. <Glad you're enjoying them... I place same as daily wallpaper changes... that and splashing myself with seawater occasionally keeps me hanging on. Bob F>

RE: mailing list, Unix servers, etc. Jason offered: >I own a UNIX system... what do you need? Jason, There are two 'new' projects we're currently working on. We'll start with the mailing list. As of last night, I have GNU Mailman running on my Linux server at home, on a 768/384 DSL line (static IP). The server also handles a few personal websites, and a portion of the prototype/development site that is the second of the two projects. More on that in just a sec. Both the mailing list and the new website are 'high-priority' stuff, but the mailing list is definitely a little easier to tackle, and demand (historic and recent/current) from Bob's many fans is naturally driving the order of operations here. :-) <Am changing my biz card job desc to "Chief Cheerleader" (from Principal Cook and Bottlwasher"). Methinks, mefeels that the "practice" of weekly, moving to daily FishMael will "do" a few things for us/WWM... get me/someone to engage in the re-scanning and more of what we have graphics wise... to start WWF in earnest... along with cash (hopefully) from same and FishMael sponsorship we can pay folks, have more fun... even direction.> We need a home for both of them, in the long term. A home for the list- Serv (at least the Mailman version I've tried so far) requires root access to a Unix box, for installation, as well as list setup. A fairly current python interpreter is required as well, along with access to the apache conf, for installation of global cgi aliases. Like I mentioned, I got it all installed and running on a fairly vanilla Red Hat Linux box no problem, with send mail as MTA. Other mailing-list managers might not be so needy, but I haven't worked with them yet. (MajorDomo?) <What he said, yeah> The second project, the new website, is a full-blown web-app written in server-side Java (servlets/JSP/webmacro), with a MySQL backend. We have been leaning toward 'self-hosting' that one, as the hardware requirements are astronomical, in the way of storage. 200GB+ is the initial estimate for storage of the images. The prototype is up and running at http://www.wetwebfotos.com - HTML comes from my cable modem, and the images are served on my DSL line. (The generated HTML points img src tags to a different machine) <It IS a start!> I'd really like to find a home for this web-app as well, though not necessarily all the high-res images - with a little additional coding, we can host those ourselves (they're streamed from a secured/authenticated servlet)... but a speedy, robust connection/server for the app and the thumbnails would be ideal. Requirements are of course Java 2, any Servlet 2.2 engine, MySQL 3.23.23+, and a few hundred megs of storage. <Okay> We could also (more easily) split the web app into two servers, one a 'dumb' webserver, hosting the thumbnails and medium res image files, and the other the full appserver, serving the HTML and the protected hi-res files. <Whatever will "work" expediently... both need to be up most the time...> So, Jason, what do you (and anyone else still listening, we could sure use some Java development help as well) think about it all? -Lorenzo

RE: FW: Mailing lists The URL to subscribe to the 'Fishmail-weekly' mailing list. http://mail.wetwebfotos.com/mailman/listinfo/fishmail-weekly <The interfaces look good... amazing> I also created Fishmail-discussion and Fishmail-daily, but it sounds like we're supposed to start with this weekly one! <Okay with me...> It's really an 'opt-in mailer' not a mailing list (that's Fishmail-discussion). So it's configured as a moderated list, and it's expected that the list admins (anybody with the admin password) will only approve the appropriate 'weekly' post. Posts from any subscribers will be sent an auto-reply describing the list and how to unsubscribe if desired. <Oh...kay...> Try it out, let's see how it works... <Will do so... later today. Bob F> -Lorenzo

RE: FW: Mailing lists Sounds great... I do have access to a full T1 connection, so if having a Windows 2000 server box with full terminal services is what you end up needing, I'd be happy to donate a box with such services for you guys... provided the most of the mail listing can happen at night during "off peak" hours of internet usage. We could setup this box as listserv.wetwebmedia.com and have it point to box I'm hosting... whatever you need. Sounds good about trying it out soon... place me on the list!!! <You can be the first Guinea Pig to try signing on... Bob Fenner>

Re: FW: Mailing lists Ah hah, The Lyris server is limited to 200 subscribers for the free version. The $500 version allows 500 subscribers. That's not exactly cheap, for such limited numbers of subscribers... :-( <No, we need much more... the 5-10 k version of such software> The Xtreem MailXpert server required interactive (full windows terminal) access to the NT host it's running on. We don't have that at all, only ftp access, to our NT server at DataPipe. :-( <Can we rent this svc?> The Gnu MailMan software we're currentyl using/playing with is a completely public domain, 'open source', free-for-all, piece of software, that unfortunately runs only on Unix systems with Python installed. :-( Anyway, the first couple of lists (for testing/rollout) are about to be available! <Let's go ahead with what we can at this point IMO. Bob F> Thanks! -Lorenzo

Re: FW: Mailing lists <Okay, and Zo'ster, pls make your email addr. available if you deem appropriate. Be chatting you boyz. Bob F> Bob, please forward to Lorenzo... thanks. I've found some list server software for you Lorenzo... hope this helps... these are either free or really cheap. http://www.zdnet.com/downloads/stories/info/0,10615,72783,00.html http://www.lyris.com/store/listmanager/software/down/down.html http://www.lyris.com/products/listmanager/user_area/free_tools/

mailing list Datapipe says they can move us to a Unix server for $15. But after researching most of the mailing list products, they all seem to want root (top system administrator) access to the server for installation. :-( Let me get one up and running on wetwebfotos.com - then you can see what you think of it. I'll do that this afternoon after we're done launching model rockets at the park... :-) <Sounds great. Have fun, of course. Bob Fenner> -Lorenzo

Re: mailing list ><Wowzah, yikesville, holy pet-fish batboy! Yes, this practice page is >about "it"... has all the features I'm looking for (at least today)... I think if/when you see the administrative pages, you'll see that it does just about everything you could possibly want from a mailing list system. <<Okay, will look/see when get the passwoid>> > Do we get something like this coming with the new FP02? No. FP2002 has a new feature called "Lists" which are lists of info that are maintained and live entirely on the website, like announcements, events, contacts, etc. These are available with the Microsoft 'SharePoint' server extensions, available with Datapipe's 'Advanced NT' Service ($99/month). <<What? RIPPPP!> SharePoint also enables a handful of other useful functions, like threaded discussion boards, surveys, file upload/management, etc. > When can we make this bag o tricks live on WWM? As a subweb? Just a link back to Zo's server? This particular product/system can never be installed at DataPipe unless we have a dedicated Unix server. Needs to be dedicated, because we need 'root' access to do the installation. Those are pretty expensive, though I dream of having one someday. That means it'll just be a link to wetwebfotos.com/mail, methinks. <<Looking forward to this, you betcha>> > How many hours will this tie your machine/s up per day? That depends on the quantity and size of messages. If it's just a single, outgoing, daily mailing, "Bob's Answers to FAQ's", and any attached 'Photo- of-the-day' is fairly small (maybe a thumbnail with a link to the site?)<<Yes, but still likely 100kb or so...>>, the load will be manageable. If it's an active 'discussion' with many subscribers, but message sizes are limited and attachments forbidden, no problem. But if we get out of control - messages are large, there are several thousand subscribers, etc - we'll definitely overwhelm my DSL connection, with email traffic alone. > Can you provide a flow chart/protocol for maintenance/use? Bob/F> There are a couple different 'models' for usage of the mailing list. Traditional 'discussion list' - everybody can post messages (all messages sent to the list, are automatically forwarded to all list members). Moderated discussion list - all member posts are sent to the list admin for editing/approval, after which they may be discarded, or approved, and sent to all list subscribers. <<No to moderating, or moderation for that matter>> 'Announcements' list - only a select few can post, but anybody can subscribe. I can setup one of each of these, and we can test them out, amongst the 'in crowd', to help decide what we want to open up to the public? I think, initially, the daily 'Bob's Answers' mailing list is our highest priority, si? <<Hmm, along with a pic... and hopefully soon thereafter a sponsor to generate cash flow, start paying folks...> Gimme a name for the first list. <<Fishmael, Fishmail, ...>> Has to be no spaces, use dashes and/or underscores. I'll set it up however you want as far as type/model, send Bob and Mike the admin info/password, and we'll invite a select few to subscribe. ;-) -Lorenzo <>

Re: mailing list You guys can check out the following URL. It's currently setup for a 'standard' mailing list format, i.e.. subscribers can choose either 'immediate' mode, or 'digest' mode. Only subscribers can post to the list (unmoderated), and all subscribers get all emails sent to the list. This is Gnu Mailman, probably the most popular list manager available today, at least in technical circles. It's configurable to do pretty much whatever we want, digest-only, selected posters only, etc. and I can customize the subscription interface to simplify it, and to look like WetWeb*.com without too much trouble. We can have any number of separate lists, for example WWM-public-discussion, saltwater-forum, bobs-daily-pick-me-ups, fish-of-the-day, whatever. http://www.lgonzalez.net/mailman/listinfo/mailman-test The above is just an initial test list, to let everybody see what it's like. -Lorenzo <Wowzah, yikesville, holy pet-fish batboy! Yes, this practice page is about "it"... has all the features I'm looking for (at least today)... Do we get something like this coming with the new FP02? When can we make this bag o tricks live on WWM? As a subweb? Just a link back to Zo's server? How many hours will this tie your machine/s up per day? Can you provide a flow chart/protocol for maintenance/use? Bob/F>

Website FAQs (dreams of a new feature... auto daily? email outs...> Hello Bob... Wondering if you were ever planning on setting up a daily email newsletter that would contain the FAQs. I visit the site each day, and read through the FAQs, and thought it might be easier for us devotees to just get a daily email blitz. But then again, your daily "hit" count for the site would go down. Just a thought. <A very good idea... one that I have been chatting re for it seems forever... Am waiting for HTML nirvana from somewhere, perhaps the new FrontPage 02 release to be able to make this so... a simple (please!) database tool for gathering names/e-addrs for interested parties to batch/send the "pic of the day", "top FAQs of the day", "monthly calendars"... and perhaps a sponsor's msg. to pay for the time, server... Do you know "how" to do such code-wise? Bob Fenner> - Eugene

Re: Website FAQs Listbot used to be a popular method, but Microsoft just announced they're closing down the service. I will research and keep y'all posted... it's the least I (and my fish) could do. <Thank you for your help. Bob Fenner>

Re: Website FAQs http://www.bcentral.com/services/lb/pricing.asp lists "List Builders" features and pricing... I'd be happy to sponsor the first few months at $29.95. This gives up to 10,000 emails a month. I'm sure a corporate sponsor would GLADLY pay the monthly fees for a advertising tag at the bottom of each email that goes out. This also lets you collect very important "demographic" information that I as a user would give up easily, trusting that you would not solicit our email addresses to "junk" companies... if Ecosystem, CPR or The Marine Center wanted to email me specials and stuff, I'd gladly accept it. This type of info is GOLD for these companies... of course, you'd want to let it be known upfront that we're signing up for a "Bob Approved" email spam database. <Hmm, sounds very intriguing... wish there was someway to just "pay once"... and not have a limit on the number of emails... Zo and Mike, what say you? Bob Fenner>

Can do! RE: Do you know "how" to do such code-wise? Bob Fenner> I can do... need some heavy duty back-end Internet support? I'm your man... What is it that you need exactly? <Don't know how to even describe... am sending you to Zo (our itinerant real computer person...) for chatting back and forth. Pls cc me (if "it's" something I can understand, help with... Bob F> J --

Re: Website FAQs Guys, If I could get off my sorry, overworked ass, and do some work on DataPipe, it's possible we can do this ourselves. I just wish the server at DataPipe were Unix, this'd be so much easier. <You know what Zo... when I call DataPipe for help they invariably ask "Are you Unix or NT?"... I suspect they have both... could we/you use them?> Finding list-serv's for NT is somewhat difficult... I did find one, and I think it'd work for our needs, but whether it will really work on Datapipe's server is a bit in question. <Would you please, puhleeze call them: 1-877-773-3306 and ask in computerese?> I could DEFINITELY host such a thing on our DSL server - it's a Linux box. We'd just have to put a link from wetwebmedia.com to something like mailing-list. wetwebfotos.com for user subscription/administration - then my server could do all the mail sending at night, etc. Hmmm. why didn't I think of that earlier!!!!! <And could we get a "interface" form of some sort to have mere mortals sign up for such service? Bob F> -Lorenzo