Zoanthids in a mixed community with Corallimorpharians and select LPS corals 9/1/10
Hello WWM Crew. Thanks for your availability today and lending an ear and a helping hand.
I have a scenario to present concerning my Zoanthids in a mixed community with Corallimorpharians and select LPS corals.
I have finally turned the corner on a 55 gallon reef in the never-ending battle with hair algae. I have shifted my lighting from 3 actinics and 1 daylight to a half-and-half configuration of two actinics and two 10,000k daylight power compacts. I have also recently added a Phosban 150 reactor, which seems to have stopped further algae proliferation cold (what green slimy gunk I remove, mostly stays removed. I am turning water over at the rate of about 35+ times the total system volume per hour. Here are the water parameters: ammonia - 0, nitrite - 0, nitrate - undetectable, specific gravity - 1.025, alkalinity - 2.5, pH - 8.1 (trying to stabilize at 8.3), temperature - 80 degrees, calcium - 440, phosphate - undetectable, silicate - not tested. I dose C-Balance A-B twice a week for calcium/alkalinity, Seachem's Reef Builder, Reef Buffer, Reef Complete and Reef Calcium usually once per week and as needed to maintain proper levels.
I also add 2 drops of Lugol's Solution twice weekly. I run 1 bag of Chemi-Pure Elite and 1 bag of Purigen, along with Seachem Matrix Carbon in an Emperor 400, specifically used for chemical filtration. I remove detritus with a 100 micron filter pad, changed weekly.
Fishes: Lawnmower Blenny (Salarias fasciatus), Bicolor Angel (Centropyge bicolor), Devil Damsel (Chrysiptera taupou), Cinnamon Clown (Amphiprion melanopus). There are currently no crustaceans or motile inverts in the tank. As for other inhabitants: 1 Cup Coral (Turbinaria peltata), 1 Duncan Coral (Duncanopsamia axifuga), both very healthy, directly fed and thriving; 2 yellow encrusting sponges which are growing quite rapidly; various Corallimorphs including Discosoma spp., Ricordea yuma, R..florida, and Rhodactis indosinensis, all thriving.
The problem is with 2 of the 4 Zoanthid colonies (all different species).
Two thrive and are open continually except at night, of course. Another fails to open all the way as the edges of the disk remain slightly curled up, and only a few of the polyps open at all on the fourth colony. These latter two colonies have failed to open all the way since introduction a couple of months ago, although they look healthy enough otherwise. I have
given these 2 "lagging" Zoanthid colonies a Lugol's seawater dip of about 30 minutes with 7 drops of solution, which seemed to have no effect.
<... I would move these non-performing Zoanthid colonies elsewhere. To another system>
The Bicolor Angel might ordinarily be a culprit in keeping the Zoanthids from expansion but many hours of observation has not revealed that he ever touches any of the invertebrates. (The fishes are well fed a varied diet.)
I do not see that water parameters are to blame either. Also, the Zoanthid colonies are placed on the opposite end of the tank from the mushrooms to reduce any potential effects of toxicity or aggression, and the LPS corals seem undeterred by the presence of either group. The Zoanthids have good water flow, reside in about the mid-section of the tank, and receive half of the lighting 12 hours per day and full lighting intensity about 8 additional hours. Any thoughts as to what might be causing two of the colonies to not fully expand or the edges of the disks to curl?
<They are "losing" to other Cnidarians here... likely the other Zoanthideans... if you leave them all present, there will likely be more chemical warfare stress and trouble than you'd like by the time they all (might) learn to get along. Please read here:
http://wetwebmedia.com/zoanthidcompfaqs.htm
and here: http://wetwebmedia.com/cnidcompppt.htm
and the linked files above. Bob Fenner>
Thank you in advance for whatever insight you might have to offer.
Regards, from
David Bell
Bob,
Thank you very much.
<Welcome David>
Am working on a Tomato Clownfish article. Will let you read...almost complete.
Regards, from
David Bell
<And you, BobF>

Zoa question, hlth. 1/4/11
Hello all,
I noticed on my orange Zoa frag, that one of the polyps has what looks like a black lining around it's base/stem (if that's what it's called). I can't get a good picture of it, but it almost looked like a bit of skin (albeit black) that was on it. I prodded it with an empty syringe, and it seems well attached. This is a really healthy frag, it's put out a few new polyps, and one that fell off (due to cleaner shrimp I think), has latched on to a piece of LR where it landed and it is happily growing there.
Tank is 65g with 110 lbs LR and about that much crushed coral/gravel and live sand.
Red Sea Berlin triple pass skimmer
Ammonia/Nitrites 0ppm
SG 1.024
pH 8.2
Nitrates 5-20ppm
Phosphates 0ppm
Ca 420ppm
KH 11*
weekly 20% water changes with RO/DI and Instant Oceans Reef crystals
Temp 82-83*F
Shares tank with 2 clowns, 2 cleaner shrimp, 1 sand sifting star, 2 blue-leg hermits.
Fed Kent zooplankton 2 times weekly (5ml per feeding)
So, should I be worried? Cut it off? Leave it and see?
<I would not worry... Have seen this sort of thing before... either from the animal itself or something innocuous growing on it. I'd leave be>
Thanks,
Chris
<Welcome! Bob Fenner>

Zoanthid eating snails? Hi Guys, <Jorge> I just finished searching many forums and reading through a lot of your site. Over the last month, I lost various Zoanthid colonies of mine. The colony slowly but surely starts to develop a white film and then just disintegrates (which I know is typical of infection but...). Once I noticed this, I fragged away any healthy polyps as best as I could and those for a while did well, but then also withered away (over a week or so) I also dipped the colony in CoralRx but that was to no avail as it continued to disintegrate. While I was fragging away some more healthy polyps, I noticed that the colony had hundreds, or even thousands, of these little tiny balls. I am guessing they are some sort of egg as the balls have a mucus like substance that keeps them together when you try to pull them off the coral. In other words, if you pull a tiny cluster of the balls away, quite a few more little clusters follow behind it. Sure enough, as I started to pull the "eggs" off the colony, under the "eggs" I found various snails. I am not sure what they are, but I am guessing they are the culprit. Hopefully the pictures are good enough. I would really appreciate it if you could tell me what the heck these things are and if you think they are guilty. And then what I need to do to get rid of them. The CoralRx seems to have done nothing to stop them. Thanks so much for all the information you provide us reefers. It is greatly appreciated by me and many others. Take care, Jorge aka - Jgoal55 on RC. <Do look like predatory snails... Please read here: http://wetwebmedia.com/zohlthf3.htm and the linked files in the series above, and: http://wetwebmedia.com/pestsnailfaqs.htm Bob Fenner>

Zoas looking bad... several possibilities -- 06/09/10 Hi <Umm, yeah!> I have had a group or Zoas in my tank for prob 4-5 months they started off looking healthy and were always open, A month or so ago I noticed that they weren't opening up that much and getting some red algae slime over them <You need to discern the cause/allowance for the BGA and solve it/this> so I moved them onto a higher point in my tank hoping this may help. It seems to have made them worse and they are now not opening up at all and look very white. <Apparently "bleached"> Tank parameters are normal, <?> I did have a problem awhile back with excess phosphates in the water but this now seems in check. <How?... please see WWM re HPO4...> All other fish. Corals appear ok. The tank is 200L with a 30L sump I have a protein skimmer and run one Tunze Turbelle for water movement I am looking into getting a UV sterilizer to hopefully combat some of the algae prob <Not a reasonable approach in general... see WWM re... > that I am having on the tank glass and substrate. I run 2 150W 14000k Metal halides and 2 actinic PL Lamps I have attached pics of before when they were healthy and a month back ( this is before I moved them up onto a higher point). Thanks Sarah <Maybe start here altogether: http://wetwebmedia.com/zoahlthf2.htm and the linked files above. Bob Fenner>

before after

Re: Zoas looking bad -- 06/9/10 Sorry a bit confused by your response You need to discern the cause/allowance for the BGA and solve it/this> What does this mean I.e. BGA <Read here: http://wetwebmedia.com/bluegralgae.htm My tank parameters are : pH 8.2, Calcium 420, kH 8. Phosphates 0.25 <... see WWM re the last two> I did have a problem awhile back with excess phosphates in the water but this now seems in check. <How?... please see WWM re HPO4...> using a phosphate remover in the sump seemed to fix this <... see WWM re> I am looking into getting a UV sterilizer to hopefully combat some of the algae prob. <Not a reasonable approach in general... see WWM re... > do you not recommend a sterilizer ? Thanks Sarah <Keep reading. B> Re: Zoas looking bad -- 06/9/10 Bob <S> Okay after reading your email a few times I think I get what you mean now, by BGA you mean I need to get rid of the red slime algae/find cause, They are now not covered in any algae, could this have caused them to die off. I don't have any mechanical filtration so I will get some activated carbon in my sump hopefully this will help with the algae <Some> Are they dead the attached pic is how they look today very bleached, can they recover. I have two smaller colonies in the tank and they all look the same, never saw any algae on them so I didn't think this was the problem. I had a clam die a few weeks back, I moved him to a spot I thought was better but my Valentini puffer was able to get to him underneath and I think killed him, could the death of him effect the water? <Yes> I also read in one of your links that excess chemicals could be causing a problem but I only add - Calcium, Purple up <See... re> and Carbonate hardness powder. Should I be adding Iodine and anything else. I have a metal clamp on my pump holding the pipes together looks very rusty- could this be a problem. <Yes> Help I don't want them to kill any fish or other corals. I have Daisy SP and hammer corals xenia and lots of other Zoas that all look ok. Also where do I find the book The Conscientious Marine Aquarist <See Amazon.com> Thanks Sarah <B> Re: Zoas looking bad -- 06/10/10 Bob <Sarah> Some of the articles i.e. the one by Michael Van Bibber, says to use purple up in supplementing calcium and iodine. Have had a look for FAQs against it but cant see it. <Please put the string: "Purple+Up" (no spaces) in the search tool here: http://wetwebmedia.com/Googlesearch.htm and read the cached (highlighted) views> What is wrong with a KH of 8, my test kit states this value is ok <It is...> Should I be adding Iodine and anything else. I have a metal clamp on my pump holding the pipes together looks very rusty- could this be a problem. <Yes> ( yes to which one or is it both) <The last... too much Fe2, Fe3 is toxic> I don't have any mechanical filtration so I will get some activated carbon in my sump hopefully this will help with the algae <Some> Can you suggest anything else as I've spent the day reading WW and this is what I came up with <See here: http://wetwebmedia.com/marmechf.htm and the linked files above> Are they dead the attached pic <Nothing attached this time, but can recover...> is how they look today very bleached, can they recover ( can you answer this ) thanks Sarah <Welcome. BobF>

Treating the tank for Nudibranchs 4/28/10
Hi crew.
<Hi Chris>
I have read tons of stuff related to my problem. I have Zoanthid eating Nudis in my tank.
<Bad news>
My problem is that I can't remove all of them to dip without completely dismantling the tank knowing that the whole process will need to be repeated to eradicate the next generation of Nudis.
<Dipping usually does not work anyway>
I have removed a couple from dipping small rocks and frags and very rarely see them.
<They have to be removed manually. The life-cycle is typically two --three weeks, so daily removal over this period is required. An hours work or more a day typically until they disappear after three weeks. Frustrating. http://www.wetwebmedia.com/corldisart.html >
I was hoping that treating the entire tank with Flat Worm Exit
<A Planarian killer http://www.wetwebmedia.com/fltwmchemcont.htm Nudibranchs are not Planarians. This is a shotgun approach, a 'hopeful punt' that probably won't work>
followed by a healthy water change
<Requires at least two, 50% changes, the same day, the first an hour or so after treatment. This is NOT something I would do, it will kill life in your system>.
and carbon would be a viable solution.
If so, do you have any specific methodology including dosage amount to pass on to me?
<No chemicals that I know of. Quarantine of invertebrates & live rock before adding to the main system to prevent introduction of these in the first place. Hours of manual labour to remove once they are in>.
Thanks for you attention to my problem.
<No problem Chris>
Chris
<Simon>

Zoas Not Opening 4/22/10
Hello there,
<Hi Eva>
I hope you can help me out with a problem that I am not able to find any answers to.
<I'll try my best.>
Got a 100g wet/dry all in one setup (new tank with sump and skimmer is in the works). No skimmer at the moment, 4x T5's, two powerheads (not sure what size they are but on the not so powerful side), 50 lbs of live rock, two clowns, two black & white Chromis, Starry Blenny, mandarin dragonet goby, watchman, two Clown Gobies, Peppermint Shrimp, cleaner shrimp, Emerald Crab, coco worm, crabs and snails. Tank parameters are "normal" Amm. 0, Nitra. 0, Nitri. 0, Calc. 420, Alk. 10-12, SG. 1.025 pH is fluctuating between 7.8 and 8.4 within day and night and I am wondering if that is the problem.
<Is a pretty good swing but if not sudden, shouldn't be a problem. Is normal for small changes to occur during a 24 hour period.>
There are about 10 colonies of polyps in the tank, only two of them are on the larger end, most are 5 - 10 polyps. They were all doing extremely well until about 2 weeks ago.
<Mmm, did you add something to the tank two weeks ago?>
Regular water changes have been performed. There is also a Hammer Coral and a Duncan Coral which have been behaving a little odd, extending and shrinking a lot. The Sun coral, Green Star Polyp, Pulsing Xenia, Open Brain, Frogspawn, Candycanes and Acan are all doing fine.
<The Hammer and Duncan coral are not the easiest species of corals to keep. You may not have enough light and water quality may be sub par for keeping these corals. Since you didn't state tank dimensions, length, wattage, and
Kelvin temperature of the lamps, I cannot comment further with the lighting issue but the lack of a protein skimmer will reduce water quality. Another issue you may have is that Euphyllias, of which the Hammer Coral is, are high on the allelopathy list (aggressive), and may be the reason your Zoas are not opening. Care should be taken so that no coral is placed within six inches of the Hammer Coral, as their sweeper tentacles are capable of extending up to six inches and will sting corals they come in contact with.
Protein skimming is a must for reef tanks, and use chemical media is highly recommended. These two in tandem can/will reduce the effects of allelopathy in it's chemical form.
The black and white Chromis were added about a week ago but the Zoas haven't opened normally in about two weeks. I was dosing with Strontium and Calcium but not a lot, less than it asked for on the bottle but I heard that I shouldn't be dosing at all since the water changes would take care of all that.
<Not always the case, will depend on the absorption rate by the animals kept in the system. Is best to test to avoid under/over dosing. You did not state magnesium levels in your system, and it is important to maintain this element at the proper level (1250-1300ppm) as it allows corals to absorb the calcium that is available to them.>
Any information is greatly appreciated .
<You're welcome. James (Salty Dog)>.
Greetings,
Eva
Re Zoas Not Opening 4/22/10 - 4/23/10
Thanks for your quick response.
<You're welcome.>
So I have to come to the conclusion that the hammer and the Duncan are not affected by anything that's going on chemistry wise.
<Mmm, I didn't say that. Read the original thread again.>
I think they are being harassed by a tank occupant, have yet to figure out which one.
<Tis a possibility.>
As far as the Zoas go I have gathered the information that you were asking for in your response. I just got a Magnesium test and performed the first test (I did two) and the Magnesium is at 1170ppm. I have a feeling that that is too high.
<Not, I stated the range if you have read my last response entirely.>
It is 3 x 10000 K and 2 x 54 W.
<? OK, based on the original thread (4 T5's,) I'm going with three 10K lamps and one actinic lamp.>
There actually was something changed about two weeks ago. We took out the carbon bags (ChemiPure) that we use in the filter and it took us about two or three days to replace them. the Zoas were all doing fine before we took them out (it was time to take them out) but never went back to normal. We also use a filter pad that is sitting on top of the remaining bioballs.
<The Chemipure will help with the effects of allelopathy.>
As far as the allelopathy goes...the hammer is a few inches away from some Zoa rocks.
<Not far enough, again, read original thread.>
Could it be a chain reaction? The first one closest to it closes up and the other ones follow?
<Yep.>
There are actually two frags sitting on the sand bed right now and they are doing fine.
The dimensions of the tank are 60L x 20H x 18W.
<Your lighting in lieu of your tank depth and length is borderline at best for keeping Hammer Corals
or most other Euphyllias. The lighting should be fine for the Duncan Coral providing it is somewhere near
mid level of the aquarium. May want to read/learn more about the Euphylliidae family here.
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/caryophyllids.htm
Do read here also. http://www.wetwebmedia.com/cnidcompfaqs.htm >
Thank you so much for your help
<You're welcome. James (Salty Dog)>
Eva
Re Zoas Not Opening 4/22/10 - 4/23/10
Hi Jim,
<Eva>
Right after I sent my last e-mail I noticed my mistake about the magnesium level. So I guess I am a little bit on the lower end. We have had the Hammer for about six months and it's been doing great so far. After the
clowns have hosted a beautiful Goniopora partially to death. I am thinking that they are going for the hammer now. I just haven't caught them red finned yet.
<Yes, clownfish can aggravate the corals for sure.>
Sorry about the lighting information. I just looked at the lights but am not so good with the technical stuff. The other half knows everything about that and he's not here at the moment.
<No problem, the T5's are pretty intense and just may provide enough light for the Hammer Coral to photosynthesize.>
I will try to move the frags around a little to see if that will help then also start thinking for a solution for the clowns if they are hosting a coral again.
<Yes, and again, allow at least 6 inches around the Hammer Coral. The sweeper tentacles are capable of extending to that length.>
Thanks again,
Eva

Fungus on Palythoa... Dipping madness 4/16/10
Hi
My pink Palythoa colony has fungus on it,
<Really? Unusual>
I bought it 3 weeks ago dipped it in Lugol's then FW rinse.
<Straight Lugol's?!>
They opened up after a day or so. They were quite healthy till I found fungus growing over polyp, <Actually fungus here is exceedingly rare...>
other polyps were open. I did a 10% H2O2 dip in DT water for 5 minutes. The colony opened up in like 2-3 hours & fungus was gone. After a day I noticed a larger breakout of fungus(on 3-4 polyps) this time I did a 15 % H2O2 dip for 5 minutes. Now I still see some strands of fungus on some polyps, other polyps've opened. Should I repeat the dip again ?For how long ? & What concentration?
Parameters are
NH3=0
NO2=0
NO3=5ppm
Temp=85C
Sg=1.256
<No>
No other inhabitant.20G with 35 lbs LR 5 month old tank.2x20 W CFL & 2x20 W T4 Actinic. I tried changing position of colony from lower to higher flow.
<Where are the spaces between your sentences? I would stop dipping here and start looking into root cause/s... water quality, allelopathy... read here re: http://wetwebmedia.com/cnidcompppt.htm
and the linked files above in this ppt. series... Oh and do send along some well-resolved images when you can. Bob Fenner>