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FAQs on Glass Aquarium Repair, Scratches, Coatings & Blemishes

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Related FAQs: Glass Aquarium Repair 1, Glass Aquarium Repair 2, G lass Aquarium Repair 3, Glass Aquarium Repair 4, Glass Aquarium Repair 5,  & FAQs on Repairing Glass Tank:  Cross-Braces, Leaks, Chips/Cracks, Whole Panes, Tools: Cutting Glass, Silicone, Moulding/Frames; Techniques; Olde Tank (Slate Bottom, Metal Frame, Pecora...) Repairs, Troubleshooting/Repairs, & Acrylic Aquarium RepairUsed Aquarium Gear

A slight scratch/blem might not be a problem, but a crack... might call for taking the tank down, repairing.

micro chips in 65g Cube. - 01/27/2013
 Pls re-size and re-send your email at a few hundred Kbytes size. B
micro chips in 65g glass - 01/27/2013

Hello.
<Howsit?>
I was hoping to get the opinions of your talented crew on a discovery I just made with my 24x24x24 DeepBlueProfessional aquarium.  I have had this aquarium up and running for approximately three and half to four months now and this is the first time I noticed two very small chips.  The tank in question is actually a replacement for a damaged tank first sent to me by DBP so I was very observant when I received the tank. I recall going over every square inch and being satisfied, of course this was dry at the time. 
I also paid special attention to the tank during the first three months that I set aside for it to cycle and never noticed anything of concern.  I would like to share the images I took and see if these are something I should be concerned with or if I should just take a deep breath :).  Sorry about the size, I did the best I could to reduce them and the section about picture reduction was not functioning so please forgive my ignorance. Both chips are on the outside of the glass. The first two photos are of the same chip and it is located roughly six inches from the bottom of the 24 inch tall tank on the left pane towards the front corner maybe 2 1/2, 3 inches away. This chip is slightly deep enough to just catch your fingernail if pressed onto its surface.  The third image is of a small chip approximately 3 inches higher on the front pane of the tank and almost dead center from left to right. I was just barely able to feel this one and it is much tougher to catch my fingernail on it.  Tank details:  the aquarium is a 60-65? gallon glass aquarium from DeepBlueProfessionals with 3/8" thick glass. Currently installed are 3 EcoTech MP10w's set to reef crest at approximately 70% flow strength.  There is one MP10w on each side and on the back pane alternating placement both in height and in left-right placement for maximum coverage (the tank is heavily stocked for SPS).
Should I be concerned with the EcoTechs placing to much strain on the glass?
<No; not a worry>
 It is 3/8" thick so i felt it was fine.  The returns blow straight down so I doubt any force from them is causing strain but the return speed is set to max the 3/4" pre-drilled drain. (Im not certain the flow rate but it is a 900 gph pump turned down quite a bit)  One last concern I wanted to share, I intend to move in the next few weeks and I am planning to drain the tank, move it about 15-20 miles across town and set it back up. I plan to be extremely careful while moving it as many of my corals are unable to be removed, so the tank is going to be babied the entire way.   Truth be told I do not have the money to replace the tank at this time but if it is necessary I get out of this tank I would prefer to know so I can begin making arrangements.  Any opinions, experience, or thoughts would be amazing. I have learned so much through the years just by coming here so I feel confident I am asking the right people.  Thank you again for taking the time to help me, Brandon M
<These scratches are not a problem. I would not be concerned. Bob Fenner>

  scratch and finger nail

Glass Stains   12/30/12
Hi
I have a 65g hex aquarium and a few of the panels of glass have oily stains on them. (Picture attached.) I have tried many things to clean it e.g.: Windex, Vinegar, CLR, Magic Eraser.
<These won't work>
When the stain is wet it is not visible
but when it dries it always comes back. Any help would be appreciated Thanks.
<I see these blems along w/ scratches... there are some fine "polishes" that can work on both, given quite a bit of work... IF they're surface blemishes (not deeper). Please read here re:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/glstkscratches.htm
Bob Fenner>

White Coating    11/24/12
WWM Crew,
<Richard>
I have checked the WWM archives and cannot find anything that specifically deals with my issue.
This one has got me stumped. I run a service company in the Greater Philadelphia area. I installed a 220-gallon reef system a year and a half ago. About six months ago I noticed a white opaque coating on some of the inside glass panels. Some non affected areas were visible in the form of a suction cup and some other random swatches. I tried to remove with a pro scrapper with no luck, and then tried a razor blade. It wasn't coming off.
<Chemical, physical then... not biological>
 If I used the corner of the razor blade and scraped so hard that the blade broke in half, it would remove a thin line of the coating, but it would be impossible to remove the entire coating in this manor. I tried a Brillo pad in a corner of the tank but it scratched the glass before removing the coating.
<Uh yes>
 The coating was not apparent on the sides of the glass. Just the front and back panels. I was convinced it was some calcium deposit
<More or other than this>
as I was running a ca reactor and ozone on the tank.
<Using whose salt mix/synthetic?>
 I have others with ca reactors but not the O3 combo. Or maybe a defect in the tank.
<Not>
 It was a standard 220 from one of the big manufacturers. Whatever it was was getting worse so I reluctantly decided to replace the tank. The plan was to have the manufacturer inspect the tank for a defect. But just two days ago I noticed the coating on another reef system. This one a custom 400 gallon with Starfire glass. This tank has no Ca reactor or ozone. We have switched salts recently from NeoMarine to ReefCrystals.
<Mmm; may well be involved... What re your supplementation products, practices?>
 We have also started running Bio Pellets within the last year in both systems. This case has some non affected areas as well that appear to be snail tracks. (I just studied the picture and they cant be snail tracks because they are all in the exact same angle) It is visible in the picture.
<I see, make this out; the dew-drop shaped clearings>
This case has only affected 2/3 of one viewing panel. Has anyone experienced anything like this?
 What is causing it?
<Yes; usually traceable to precipitation of alkaline earth (Ca, Mg...) AND alkalinity interactions; "plating out" as it were on the viewing panels>
 I read a similar question on WWM but it was offered that it should not get worse. It definitely got worse in my case. I cant tell if it was a gradual "plating" or several "events" that cause the worsening. Replacing a custom 400-gallon is a whole other ball game from replacing an off the shelf 220-gallon. Not to mention the tank is doing so well. Where do I go from here.
<Let's review your use of the above mentioned supplements, do some (ten gallon glass tank) experiments w/ some of your synthetic salt and these... And I'd contact Aquarium Systems w/ the batch numbers for your salt... ask for their technical assistance>
I have the 220-gallon in our shop and I plan on sending a sample for chemical analysis. But I was hoping there is some precedence I can look to for help.
Thanks in advance,
Rich
<Do please report back your further observations, others input. Bob Fenner> 

 

Scratched glass/Aquarium Repair    8/24/12
Hey crew,
<Hi Ryan>
  Not sure if this is in your wide range of expertise, but I have a bunch of small light scratches on the front inside my tank. My tank is glass, and wondering if there is a way to fix the scratches, without having to drain the tank.
<Mmm, not really unless Bob knows of a way.  Polishing or jeweler's rouge would have to be used with a buffing wheel to remove fine scratches.>
Thanks,
<You're welcome.  James (Salty Dog)>
Ryan.
Re: Scratched glass    8/24/12

Ok, tried reading up online for any methods couldn't find much. I guess it is much easier to remove scratches from acrylic then it is glass. They sell acrylic scratch kits, any possibility it could work for glass?
<You are correct re glass vs. acrylic scratches... none for acrylic will work for glass, but both involve the same strategy... like dermabrasion, removing material around the scratches down to the same level. Yes, w/ the tank empty. If there's an easy way to turn the tank about 180 degrees... use the back for the front... this is what I'd do. Bob Fenner>
Re: Scratched glass    8/24/12

It has an overflow,
<Ahh>
so no can do on the switch around. But thanks crew as always much appreciated, I'll call a few glass repair guys and see of something as easy as a type of sand paper would would work.
<Mmm, a power tool can be used... with varying grades of (diamond mostly) abrasive... Cheaper by far to generally just replace the one panel of glass. BobF>
Re: Scratched glass - 8/24/12

Ok. How Would one go about replacing one panel of glass?
< http://www.wetwebmedia.com/marine/maintenance/maintindex.htm the seventh tray down. Don't write before searching, reading. B>

Hair line crack! HELP!     12/18/11
Hey guys! Hope all is well!
I was feeding my goldfish this evening when I noticed a hairline crack approximately 2 inches long about half an inch away from the bottom in the middle of the back pane on my 29 gallon tank. I'm terrified of my tank exploding while I am not home. Is it a possibility?
<Mmm, very remote. This is almost assuredly a "scratch", caused by scrubbing a rock against the glass during maintenance, or something hard in the way of decor placement...>

! Is there anything I can do to seal it until I can afford another tank?
<Not to worry. Rub your finger nail along... can you feel it?>

I'm really worried, and appreciate any peace of mind you can give me.
Thanks for the help!!
Jessica
<Bob Fenner>
Re: Hair line crack! HELP!     12/18/11
Yes, and from the outside too,
<?! Is this a glass tank? Acrylic?>

do I doubt it's just from the rocks. I'm trying to get a hold of a temporary tank as fast as I can, to be honest, I don't feel safe using this tank long term.
<VERY unusual for such a break to occur w/o simultaneous breakage, leakage.
IF glass, I would drain down now. BobF>
Re: Hair line crack! HELP! 12/18/11
I'm thinking it's probably acrylic
<...? Probably?>

 considering the characteristics, and the fact that it is not leaking/ expanding. I have a new tank on it way to my house this evening, and hopefully I will be able to transfer the fish safely. Thank you for your help! I really appreciate your advice! Any other tips?
<Keep reading. B>
Re: Hair line crack! HELP! 12/19/11
So I verified that it is acrylic, and I CANNOT feel the crack on the inside of the tank.
<You previously stated you could...>
I can only feel it on the outside of the tank.
<Then, again, I wouldn't be concerned... This is almost certainly a simple scratch>

I still plan to replace the tank. And I have definitely learned to inspect tanks thoroughly before I fill it.
<Ok. B>
Re: Hair line crack! HELP! -- 12/19/11

I do apologize for inconsistencies, I was honestly in such a panic. I hope I isn't waste to much of your time. Thanks again for everything! :)
<Certainly welcome. B>

OxyClean, to clean aquariums? Glass tank scratches  11/7/11
Hi, I got a used aquarium that has white stuff on the inside glass.
<Mmm, minerals... mainly salts of calcium likely>
I scraped off what I could with a razor but you can still see it lining the inside glass along the bottom sides of the glass. I read about using vinegar and tried that. I put the aquarium on the side and poured some vinegar to cover the spots. After about 20 minutes I scrubbed it with a pad.
<Mmm, best to use the razor blade again... scrubbing may well scratch the glass>
It looks clean when wet, but as soon as the glass dries, you can see the "stains". I did a Google search and read somewhere about using OxyClean to clean the inside of the aquarium.
<Mmm, really?>
Can I use OxyClean to get rid of the "stains" on the inside of the glass?
<I wouldn't... though their PR states that the principal ingredient in their products is hydrogen peroxide
(http://www.oxiclean.com/news/the-science-of-oxiclean.aspx ), there are likely detergents, other materials you don't want as residual/s in the system>
Did I not use the vinegar right?
<Maybe more concentrated... or longer duration/soaking>
How about using borax?
<Mmm, no. Too scratchy again>
How about using baking soda?
<Nor this. You really don't want to use an abrasive>
The tank is still empty, I need to get rid of the stains before moving forward with setting it up.
And advice would be appreciated.
Thanks
<Have a read here: http://wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/fwclngtkfaqs.htm
Bob Fenner>
Re: OxyClean   11/7/11

Thanks,
<Welcome>
One more question.
I read someone used Turtle Wax - heavy duty rubbing compound to clear out the mineral deposits. He said the abrasives in the rubbing compound were not as hard as glass, so no scratching would occur. Also claimed there would be little residue left after rinsing, since it is designed to clean something being prepped for painting. Have you ever hear of this?
<No... and again, I wouldn't do this... the "scale" itself is too abrasive to be grinding into the glass. Read where you've been referred. BobF>
Thanks
Re: OxyClean  -- 11/08/11

OK, I think the mineral deposits have been etched into the glass.
<Mmm, not likely. Much more probable is that someone has scratched the glass trying to clean it>
I let it soak in vinegar overnight, then tried scraping with a razor.
Nothing, when I run my finger over the whitish stain it feels smooth, just like the glass.
Is there anything else I can try?
<Mmm, really too late. If the "back" of the tank is less scratched, you might want to "flip it around">
Thanks,
<Welcome. BobF>

Possible Tank Repair? -- 11/09/11
Hey guys, I just purchased a 140 Gallon used tank that was previously used as a saltwater tank. When I picked up the tank I could see a bunch of calcium deposits and it looked very dirty, so I purchased it and took it home to give it a good cleaning. After cleaning, I got rid of all of the calcium deposits, yet there is still a "fog" on the front panel. I tried removing this by soaking it with vinegar & baking soda, spraying a strong (very acidic) bathroom cleaner, and even a attempting to remove it with a razor, yet no progress at all was made.
My question to you is; Is there any way to get rid of this clouding on the front panel?
<Not likely no... I'd flip the tank around... make the present back the front. There ARE techniques of grinding down such "fogs" (like dermabrasion, ow!), but they're expensive (tools, materials, time) and not
altogether satisfying>
If not, would it be possible to replace the front glass panel with new glass?
<Oh, yes... Again, a bit of time to cut away the frame and between-glass seal... but possible>
Thanks a bunch,
William Slattery
<Welcome. Bob Fenner>

Scratch or Crack in my aquarium?  3/29/11
Hello, what a wonderful website! I've been reading about many, many repairs to tanks but couldn't find one exactly like mine, and I don't want to take chances here. Firstly, I've just unpacked my 16 gal, bow front tank that has been in storage (in freezing temperatures, I live in Alberta, Canada) for a few years. Upon cleaning it I noticed some "scratches" on the inside. They couldn't have gotten there from before I packed it for storage, as far as I can tell, so I'm presuming they are not scratches but more like hairline fractures caused from storage and moving.
<Mmm, glass shouldn't "do this". Very much more likely these were made when you had the system up, going, and didn't notice with the water in the tank, nor when it was cleaned and put away>
I cannot feel them on the outside but can feel them on the inside if using my fingernail. There are about 3 of them. 2 on the side (about 5" long, and 3" long) and one 4"long one on the front bow. They are all on the inside. What am I dealing with here?
<Mmm, these are very long... and the placement? Not seemingly random.
Perhaps these are manufacturer defects... You might want to query the maker>
Do I just fill it up and see if it leaks?
<Yes I would... and not leak, but (unlikely) fail (catastrophically)>
If it doesn't leak in a few days does that mean its safe or will these "fractures" get weaker over time and burst unexpectedly?
<I doubt this tank will do so>
If so, how do I fix these from the inside of the tank?
<Mmm, not possible really... to remove these apparent scratches/defects. Again, as long as not "too deep", not at all likely a problem>
I'm really hoping you won't say 'add another piece of glass over the scratches" or "rebuild" or "buy a new one". I'm hoping for a quick easy fix like everyone else I guess. Also, should I be worried about the sealant after the long storage time and change in temperatures?
<Mmm, this too should be okay... is the Silastic still a bit flexible to the touch?>
If the sealant is peeling lightly on the outside corners is that a problem and if so, how do I fix that?
<Mmm, IF one had the perception, or actual leak, re-doing the inside corner beads could be done as posted on WWM>
Do I have to disassemble the whole thing?
<Not likely; no>
Besides that, the tank looks fine and in good shape, especially compared to some of the horror stories I've read on this website! So glad that's not me. Or is it? One more thing, I have to set my tank stand (which I purchased with the tank and is made as a set) on carpet rather than the lino it was sitting on before. I'm worried that the carpet will not provide a sturdy, level base. Should I put another piece of solid wood under the tank stand and level that or can I just level the stand itself without the extra wood under it?
<Try it first w/o the piece of wood is what I'd do>
I'm an amateur with 2 kids that will freak if the tank bursts and fish die. I cannot afford a new tank as I bought this one new at a pet store and it cost a bundle. The bow front makes it hard to find a cheap replacement. Thanks so much for any advice. Warm regards (and I do mean warm as its almost the end of March and we still have a lot of snow and no sign of spring here in Alberta), Sam from Canada.
<Not to worry (out of hand) Sam... set this tank, stand up in the garage and test it there for a few days. Bob Fenner>

Crack/Scratch inside turtle tank should I be worried? - 1/25/10
I've asked this on a few other places, but after finding your site on Google I think you may be the most likely to have an answer for my problem.
Anyway, I just found this crack/scratch on my turtle tank. I say crack/scratch because I'm not exactly sure what to call it. It's in the bottom, back, left part of my Red Ears 29 gallon tank. I've had the tank for just less than 3 months, it's never been moved since I bought it and to my knowledge it's never been hit/bumped in that location. The only reason I noticed it is because my turtle pooped out a rock at that location and felt the crack/scratch with my finger as I picked the rock up (I've stopped using rocks when I got this new tank).
It's only as thick as a hair
<Mmm, then not likely to be of concern>
and I can feel it on the inside but not the outside. I don't know how deep it goes, I can just feel it when I
slide my finger over it. It extends from the silicone(is that what it is?)
<Yes... or Silastic as another trade name>
on the left and curves in an "S" shape upward to the silicone on the back and also it feels thicker on the left and gets gradually thinner towards the back though it doesn't disappear. I don't know if this helps but if I shine a
flashlight at it then it casts a shadow on the display table. I took this picture,
<No picture attached. Oh I see the link below>
I think it's the best my camera can do. Will the tank hold? Do I have start saving up for a new one? Does the fact I have a turtle in the tank make it more important that I get a new tank? Any help will be appreciated!
http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/9954/crack2p.jpg 
<Ahh! I don't think/consider that you have a problem here. Particularly that you are not filling this tank all the way. Please read here for more:
http://wetwebmedia.com/glsaqcracks.htm
and the linked files above. Bob Fenner>

Small Crack any help appreciated 7/29/09
Hello;
<Hi there>
I have just bought a 155gl tank for a small fee. It was sitting in a friends garage I got it home cleaned all the white film off and noticed a small 3in crack/scratch.
<Which?>
I say crack/scratch because it can be barely felt on the inside and not at all on the outside.
<A scratch>
Also it runs across the length not up and down and is a foot from the center.
There was coral in the tank previously about the same height of the blemish it is about 5in from the base of the tank. Is there a way it can be repaired.
<Mmm, can/could be ground down... but not likely something I would do>
Also I have not filled it completely and if i do so should I be worried.
Greatly appreciated,
Michael Cahill
<If "just" superficial, I'd not worry about this... If there comes an occasion to "turn the tank around", I might flip the front to back... Bob Fenner>

Small Scratch/Crack in tank 5/26/09
I was cleaning the glass on my 1.5 month old 48x26x22 110 gallon this evening when I noticed a small scratch/crack in the side panel. It is not leaking water and doesn't appear to be all the way through the glass. It appears to be about 1/16 deep in a 3/8 panel. I have marked both ends of the scratch/crack to see if it grows. I do remember my 2 year old grandson tapping that side of the tank with a tool the other day which is how I think that it happened. My question is do you think that it is something to be really worried about and should I be thinking of replacing the tank? I really do not want to start all over again....then again I do not want 110 gallons of water flowing all over my house and into my basement. Your advice is greatly appreciated. Thanks, Sue
<It really sounds to be of no concern. Do keep an eye on it and drain the tank should it grow, I doubt it will. Welcome, Scott V.>

Scratch Removal - Glass 3/17/2009
Hello Crew.
<Well hello there.>
I've seen a postings on how to remove scratches from glass tanks. Pretty much everyone says it can't be done, but I've found some interesting articles that says it can using jeweler's rouge of the appropriate abrasiveness.
<This is true, used it to polish old glass from an old Jaguar I was restoring.>
Also, are you familiar with this product (Janvil Glass Revive)?
<Never worked with it myself.>
Article 1:
http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/225889/how_to_remove_scratches_from
_glass.html?all=1&cat=6
Article 2:
http://www.fitchfamily.com/glass.html
Hope this helps someone and would love to read some more feedback from others. Keep up the outstanding contribution,
<Thank you for sharing>
Lee
<Mike>

Concern over scratched Juwel 260 Vision Aquarium -- 09/04/08 Hi I have had my Juwel Vision 260 aquarium for around 4 years now and recently noticed a few scratches, the one that concerns me is at the bottom of the front glass and is about 2 inches in length and on the inside only, it is barely visible unless you know it is there, it has algae growing along it too. I am concerned that this may weaken the tank as it is at the part that bears most pressure, Is it likely that it will increase in size do you think? I must have done it myself with the course scraper I purchased, perhaps some gravel got caught in between the glass and the scraper? Any help or advice you could give me would be most welcome. Thanks, Jenni <Hi Jenni. It's easy to scratch the inside of the tank, especially if you get sand trapped between the glass and the algae scraper. My Juwel tank has lots of scratches! If small and superficial, these are unlikely to cause any major problems, and I wouldn't worry about it. There's no way to fix scratches, but you can replace the glass part of the tank through any Juwel dealer. Do also see here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/glstkscratches.htm You are not alone! Cheers, Neale.>

Fish Tank Crack or Scratch? (No Pics!) -- 08/02/08 Hi! <<Hello Grace>> I recently got a fish tank that's about fifteen gallons on Craigslist. <<Neat>> When I went to pick it up I looked at it and thought it was fine until I took it home. <<Uh-oh>> The person had filled the bottom with some gravel and when I took the gravel out to clean it, I saw these weird black "scratches" on them. <<Hmm'¦>> The weird thing is when you feel them some are raised bumps and some are dips. I don't know what to make out of the situation! <<Neither do I without some pictures of the tank and the damage>> Could I somehow fix this tank so I can put fish in? <<I have no way of knowing for sure by your description alone, but if the tank bottom is cracked you will not be able to use this tank. Repair 'is' possible but would need to be done carefully by someone familiar with the process and even then is likely more trouble and expense than this tank is worth. My first suggestion is to return the tank for a refund, if possible/practical. Otherwise, you could take it to a good LFS in your area and let them see it first-hand and advise you on its condition and feasibility for repair>> Thank you so much! Grace <<Happy to share. EricR>>

tank 911, crack, scratch?    4/20/08 hello all, <Ryan> I was changing my water in my 30 gal. planted tank today and notice a scratch/crack. it does not go all the way through (only on inside) and am not sure if it is just a scratch or not. <Can you feel it/this? With your finger, nail?> Can a crack be only part of the way through the glass? <Yes> have heard popping sound from the tank for the last few weeks, but just thought it was from my new all glass lid which fits with very little room to spare. how can I stop the crack (if it is one) from spreading until I can get a new tank? <Mmm, likely this gouge is not a problem if very shallow, contained> will be few weeks until I can get new tank and stand (current stand flimsy fiber board) I have set up a 10 gallon tank to start cycling "just in case" I need an emergency transfer. can I use silicon or anything to stop path of crack on temporary basis? please help Ryan <If you can, please send along a good (well-resolved, close-up) image or two. Bob Fenner>

attn bob reply to e mail, pics attached. Subject: tank 911, crack, scratch?   4/24/08 <Good pic... this scratch should be fine... except for being annoying. Maybe next time there's a call for a complete tear-down, you can turn it around front to back. Cheers, BobF>

Can scratches break an aquarium?  7/29/07 Hallo, <Hi Dorin, Twothless here.> I just bought a new aquarium, and I have no idea how but it seems that during the transportation I managed to scratch it quite bad! <That's a bummer.> I updated pictures with the scratches at www.bocanila.ro/s3/acvariu <I see.> The scratches are hair thin but several of them, on the outside of the back glass, and quite in the middle. It is a 12mm glass, 180x70x60 (LxHxW), the water level will be till 53cm (55 is max due to the 3 holes drilled in the back for filter) and they are something like 7cm long (between the height of 50-60cm) <Lucky you, it was only the back panel!> What do you think I shall do? Will it be safe due the thickness of the glass? Shall I replace the plants terrace with a 8mm glass which might then act as a strength stripe, in addition to the normal ones on top? Shall I put on more piece of glass in the back? But only to the height of 55cm?(due the holes) < Those scratches don't look bad at all. They're superficial and should not compromise the integrity of the tank very much, if at all. The 3D background you are installing will make the tank all the more rigid and structurally sound. In short, I wouldn't worry about the scratches.> Thanks a lot for any input! Dorin <Your welcome! I hope I helped alleviate any fears you might have had. Good luck with the tank. It sure looks like it's going to be nice when its completed! -Twothless>

Very small cracks on the bottom. -- 06/14/07 First off, Incredible site. I can't believe it took me so long to find it. <Me neither!> Now, my question is: I've got a 75 gallon (48x18x21) aquarium the has two very small "cracks" in it. They are located in the center (width wise) and about 3/4 to the right (length wise) The cracks themselves are only about a hair thick and about an inch long, barely visible, unless you know about them. Also, there parallel to each other, about 3-4 inches apart. <... trouble... are these "just" scratches? At any length, I would NOT fill this tank> There located on the inside of the tank. By that I mean that when you feel the bottom of the tank you can feel them (finger nail gets caught as well). they can't be felt on the outside of the tank, so I don't think it's serious. <Uhh, no... do you know how most glass is cut? By making such cuts, applying pressure to a side...> I'm almost tempted to call them scratches. It's fairly thick glass, and the tank is new. <Oh? Take it back> If it helps, the hood fell into the aquarium when we were setting it up and made the cracks. <Yikes!> Just curious if this is cause for concern, and what I should do if it is. Thank you in advance for you help. Justin. <Let's see... no pix... a vague description... A response many thousands of folks will see over years time? Mmm, no contest... take it down, back... or change into a vivarium or such. Bob Fenner>  

Small chip in 75 gal -- 06/14/07 Hello, I did a bit of digging on the already posted FAQs but couldn't find anything that was specific enough to this one. I have a new All-Glass 75 gal aquarium I got at Petco and I just noticed there is a very small (pinhole size) chip on the center of the outside front glass. <I see it/this... like a "rock" strike sort of pit> I don't believe there is any reason to be concerned here, but I wanted some confirmation that there really isn't anything to worry about. <Mmm... some...> In addition I was wondering if there was anything I could do to fill this in so you couldn't see it? <Could try, or have it ground down...> Right now it just looks like there is a tiny bubble on the tank that doesn't come off. Would filling it in with silicone sealant do any good? <No> I have attached a couple of photos showing the chip up-close and then one shot showing it farther back just to give you perspective on how small it is and the location. Thanks for your help! Shane <Mmm, if it bothered me much, I'd return and exchange this tank... Yes, a pain, but peace of mind... Otherwise, please read here re the grinding poss.: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/glstkscratches.htm Bob Fenner>

Glass tank repair (repairing a crack on the glass panel) <Grinding a pit...>  - 05/26/07 Hi there, <Hola!> Germán from Mexico writing, I am amazed with the amount of valuable info posted here, I am very grateful for all I have been able to learn reading this site. Also I am still reading the CMA, lots of good info too. This is not a question, but some information I thought might be helpful to other readers. <I/we thank you> I am setting up a 200 gal tank, 12mm glass, I made it myself. I was going to use overflow boxes but after reading your site I decided to have it drilled, well I had a glass shop come home to drill the tank, I asked for 2 2" holes at the side glass panel, unfortunately the round piece of glass that came out of the hole was shot against the front panel (when it comes apart of the glass panel, it starts to spin inside the drill, I should have taped the glass on the opposite side to prevent this), <Yes> and it shattered it, any way it was a small crack, less than one inch long, but as we know any small crack will continue to grow to the edge of the glass in no time. <Yes!> even when I looked across the side of the glass (through the 12mm section), I could see how deep the crack was, it was only 1mm deep. I looked over your site and all the internet looking for a way to repair this but only found suggestions to replace the glass panel, which I was not willing to do, I would rather throw away the tank and buy new glass panels and plastic frames than tearing it down and cleaning all the silicone. After thinking about the situation 2 solutions came into my mind, one was to drill a 1" hole to remove the cracked section before it would grow, and then plug the hole with a bulk head and a cap, or glue from the inside a piece of glass to cover the hole, this would save the tank but did not like the idea of seeing the patch, the tank is a view through dividing the living room. The other solution was to "grind" the glass to remove the crack, then polish the glass to remove the whitish color after grinding, it would only leave a concave section on the glass. <Mmm, I hope this area is near/er the top/surface...> I got my hands on the Dremel tool and a scrap piece of glass and started to practice this method, I first used a green grinding stone (Dremel 85422 Silicon Carbide Grinding Stone), this allows to remove glass to a concave form, however the grinded glass looks whitish, then I used a polishing disk for metal, (Dremel 425 Emery Impregnated Disc), it is a rubber disk with very very fine sand, this started to smell to burnt rubber pretty fast so I took a new disk and used it with water this time, took the hose and pointed the water stream right where the disk touches the glass, the result is that it polishes the glass to leave the concave form to look like a magnifying glass, I was very impressed with the result, then I was ready to work on the tank. As I stated before the crack on my glass was still less than 1mm deep so I decided to go directly with the polishing disk (did not need to remove that much glass), I removed the glass section where the crack was, now there is no "line" on the glass that  may continue to grow. I suggest to avoid getting a 90 degree angle on the section grinded, the shape of the grinding disk will leave that shape on the glass, so you have to practice first to grind to leave a round concave form as that of a magnifying glass, (I am not sure if I am getting myself explained). <Entiendo. I understand> Well, I saw on your FAQ people asking about scratches on their tanks, these can be very easily fixed with the polishing disk, takes less than 5 minutes to remove them. Hope this info can save others the pain of replacing a glass panel when they find a scratch or a surface crack. Regards, Germán <Again, thank you for this valuable input. If such damage is shallow, only surface (not through both sides of a panel) AND such blem.s are near the surface (not the deeper part of a tank where the pressure is greater) such repairs are possible. Mucho gusto y nos vemos. Roberto Fenner>

Overflow Noise/Glass Scratches - 08/15/06 Hi, <<Hello!>> I have a 54G RR Corner tank with a 1" drain and a 3/4" return. <<Sadly undersized throughputs...even on this volume of water>> I bought the whole reef set up used, but I can't imagine how the previous owner tolerated the noise! <<Mmm, indeed...you can't really put much water through a 1" drain before it becomes problematic>> I installed a 1.25" Durso standpipe (1" did not work, now I follow directions, doh!).  I have a 1/8" drilled hole in the top of the T of the Durso.  It was fascinating to watch the relationship between the air hole size, the drain line position relative to the sump water level, and the gurgling and flushing effect. <<Ah yes, you are finding out just how "fiddly" it can be.  I would like to suggest you try enlarging the hole just enough to push some airline tubing through and down in to the standpipe.  This will help with aspirating/releasing air from the drain line and often eases the gurgling sounds.  It will take some experimentation to determine the best length/diameter tubing to insert>> As I slowly increased the air hole from a pinhole up to 1/8", I observed the step by step decrease in flushing effect amplitude.   <<Yes...allowing that air I mentioned to escape more readily>> It started at about a 3-inch oscillation, at 1/8, it was gone completely.  Adjusting the drain pipe position also impacted the flushing effect and required small changes in the air hole.   <<Pretty much all comes down to eliminating the obstructions (air bubbles) to the water flow>>    OK, on to my questions:  I have extensive bubbling/gurgling noise in the sump from the drain. <<From air that is "carried" down the line by the water>> I have read on WWM two things to try: A "T" or "Y" fitting on the drain line, and aspirating the drain line from the top with air line tubing. <<Yes indeedy...though I prefer a 45- or 90-degree ell fitting on the end of the drain line>> I am confused about the specifics of both of these.  For the T or Y fitting, how is it positioned? <<Is of little consequence...just position to direct flow in the direction you desire>> I am guessing that it goes at the bottom of the drain line, with one leg submerged and one leg above the sump water level? <<Mmm, okay...I think I'm with you now.  The purpose of the fitting on the end of the drain line is to "slow" the rush of water a bit.  So...experiment with the position to determine which gives you best results.  Either way you position it, I find that having the end of the drain line completely submerged usually works best.  And do be aware, it is usually not practical to expect a 1" drain to flow more than about 300/350 gph without much hassle and noise, as you seem to be experiencing>> For the aspiration tubing, is the tube supposed to have its own hole separate from the existing air line in the Durso T cap? <<Refer to my earlier comments re>> Or does it simply go down the same hole? <<Yup!>> It also seems to me that the bubble/gurgle would be reduced if I had the water break on some live rock rubble or other irregular surface. <<Can give it a try>> I think I have seen reference to using filter pad material. <<A detritus trap>>   Next question: Even though I only have about a 2-inch drop from the overflow wall to the top of the water behind it, it still makes an annoying, trickle noise that induces the need to visit the bathroom at night (tank is in the bedroom). <<Hee!>> I am thinking of installing some kind of stepladder down to the surface.  Or perhaps a piece of filter pad would also suffice.  How have you seen this done? <<Raise the height of the standpipe to raise the surface of the water in the overflow...it only needs to "fall" a fraction of an inch or so>>    Last, the tank is used, and has a good number of extremely fine scratches that are visible depending on angle and lighting.  I have read that you generally shy away from glass polishing/buffing, but that usually seemed to be because the emailer was asking about significant/deep scratches.  What do you think about using a commercial buffer on an orbital drill pad, and follow with a thorough cleaning? <<I think you'll do one of two things...nothing at all...or make it worse.  Scratches in glass "can" be repaired/removed, but unless you really know what you're doing/have done this before, I recommend you refer to a professional for advice/consultation.  You may find it is easier/cheaper to replace the tank...or learn to ignore/accept the scratches>> Jack <<Regards, EricR>> Foggy glass I have a 135 RR Oceanic tank that I purchased used. It was previously used as a cichlid tank. The tank has been sitting in dry storage for almost 2 years. When I went to clean it, I noticed the (inside) front glass panel is foggy. I have tried hot water, vinegar and rubbing alcohol, but once the cleaning fluid dries the fogginess reappears. Is this normal? When I wet the glass it looks perfectly fine? I have never heard of glass getting old. Would soaking help? Any clues? < Two things could be going on. The glass could be scratched and there is not much you could do about this. If it is precipitated with  mineral deposits then wipe down the tank with a vinegar and or lemon juice to dissolve the minerals. This is pretty common for a used tank. Be sure to check the silicon for leaks.-Chuck> Thanks, Ken

Algae in scratches on glass Hello; <Good evening> I have scratches on the inside of the glass of my 55 gal reef tank.  I'm not sure whether I created these scratches by using a metal scraper blade to remove coralline algae, or by using an algae magnet (I hear both actions, if done improperly, can scratch the glass). <Yes> Green algae grows in these scratches easily, making the scratches quite visible ;-) and making the tank generally ugly. Assuming there's no easy way to actually remove the scratches, what's the best way of removing the algae from them?  None of the algae removal items (pads etc.) I've bought from my LFS seem to work. Thanks! <Other than techniques to make nutrients scarce through chemical filtration and/or competition, there is little you can do here. Are both sides of the tank scratched? One side may be better to turn as the front... The above methods are detailed in various places on WetWebMedia.com under marine algae control. Bob Fenner>

Aquarium Disaster Prevention - and a small bubble in the glass Dear Sir / Madam, Upfront - My question is  - how do I detect if an aquarium could crack or burst. Are there any notable things to look for? Here are my details leading to this question (my apologies for lengthiness). - Last night (new years eve) I heard a "slight bang" come from my 65 gallon aquarium (long). After inspection everything seems ok. Except for a small crack in the plastic molding at front top right corner. The molding is siliconed to the glass but the contact area of the silicon is about 1/2" up - away from the crack. That crack may have been there all along - or it may be new. Yesterday I had worked on the aquarium, replacing 1/2 tank of water as I do almost weekly. Also - there's a small bubble inside the front glass pane I didn't notice before - its 1/2 way up and near the same side of the tank as the molding crack. Its about 1pinheads wide, crest shaped. - The tank (Miracles Aquariums brand ) was bought with a pine stand - all sides are supported under the tank. We bought it new in late August. Its a freshwater, fully planted, lots of fish, co2 injection, some wood ,rocks and about 2 inches natural gravel across the bottom. The lighting canopy never did properly fit over the sides. the top molding does have a bar through its centre. I'm thinking the whole system is max 1200 lbs. It sits in the living room corner -along a retaining wall in our 50 year old apartment, but not across the joists. We felt that it was better to have it along the retaining wall than across the joists in the center of the apartment - in our limited space. - We've placed a piece of wood (pine) about 1/4" high and 3" back - as a shim underneath the front of the stand, as we had noticed the floor slightly drops towards the centre of the room. The floor also drops from left to right about 1/4" across the aquarium. I'm thinking that slight shifting over a few months time could crack the molding at a pressure build up point. But wouldn't the glass have cracked? Or can glass ever so slightly curve? Could a bubble in the glass mean trouble? Thank You in advance for your time and efforts. Any help with this source of insomnia is be greatly appreciated. < You have two things to be concerned about. One is cracks and the second is leaks. Planted tanks and reef tanks have pretty high lighting requirements. These high intensity lights generate lots of heat. As the lights are turned off and on the plastic molding expands and contracts accordingly. The plastic loses some of its elasticity over time and may not totally rebound and develop a crack. These cracks may develop leaks through condensation under the lip and should be resealed. Cracks at the top of the tank usually are not structural. The top of the tank has no pressure put on the joints. At the base of the tank a setting floor could case uneven settlement and put stress on one point of glass over another. That would case a crack and a leak. Bubbles are a structural weakness in the glass. I would recommend a better safe than sorry approach and check the tank and floor to see if they are level. If not then you may have to consult a structural engineer to see if you floor are capable of handling this long term strain on your floor joists.-Chuck> R Ryan

Aquarium Glass Scratch Removal Idea/Experiment Good Morning, <Morrow to you> I've searched the archives and was unsuccessful in finding a similar post. Internal scratches on glass aquariums seem to be an accepted annoyance, one I hope to change. <Great> As an old fiber optic technician I have several grades of optic lapping film (See http://www.psidragon.com/store/enter.html  for an example) left over from polishing fiber optic connectors in the 'good ole days'. I use these successfully to remove scratches from my wristwatch crystals, hence the origins of this Email'¦ <Okay> I want to conduct an experiment utilizing said lapping film in an attempt to remove scratches on the inside of my tank and thought it would be fun to have you 'involved' via before, during and after photos which I'll send as close to real time as possible. Sound interesting? If so, we can arrange a date and time that accommodates both our schedules. <Okay... or perhaps simpler digital/digitized pix over the Net> The only concern (possibly moot) that I have is that I'm not quite sure what the film I have is comprised of. I'm not overly concerned about the abrasive mineral itself but the glue holding it to the film backing. Any suggestions on testing the film? <Simple bio-assay... but I would not remove the scratches with livestock, water present... but rinse all out once the removal job was done> I was thinking of soaking it in saltwater and testing for phosphate, pH etc. to see if any changes occur. <Could> Hopefully this experiment will result in something a great many of us can benefit from. Tim DuBois, PA <Thank you for your efforts... reporting. Bob Fenner> 

Glass Repair <Hi Steve, MacL here with you today.> I was cruising your wonderful site looking for repair ideas for scratched glass and found none. <That's because glass scratches are pretty much permanent, especially if they are on the inside of the glass. Acrylic can be repaired.> I am considering repairing my 150 with a razor blade and super glue gel. <I'm assuming you mean you would scrape out the silicon with a razor blade and them glue it back with superglue? My understanding is that this will not work over the long term. That if you can get a bond that eventually it will wear out.> Do you know of anyone that has tried that before? <I know one guy who tried and ended up going back to silicon.> I purchased Calfo's book on Coral Prop and find it a great source but lacking on Fragging Techniques-I need pictures. <Steve, that book is amazing isn't it? There are a few pictures in there and I'm betting he will be updating soon as well. You might try www.fragexchange.com I know they are adding more and more fragging examples and after IMAC in June will have a lot of good examples.>   Can you suggest a good book?  <I don't know that there is a good book on fragging other than Anthony's book but I'm sure it will be covered shortly.> Thanks.
Steve

Scratch like things in the glass Dear Crew My question today is something that has nothing to do with living things in my aquarium. It's a riddle that I could not come to a conclusion so I want to share it with you maybe I get a solution from you. Attached are 3 pictures that I took from my 250g reef aquarium. The front glass is 15mm thick 240 cm length and 75cm height. On the glass from inside the aquarium it's been a year I noticed strange circular scratches all of them are almost the same look it starts with couple of lines than it forms almost a round design. In diameter the biggest is 8mm the pictures are enlarged to give you more detail. They are soooo thin that I could not feel it with my fingernail but when I used a razor blade with the sharp corner of it I could feel that I am scratching something and the problem is that it is not protruding out it is to the inside side of the glass so it is something that has scratched or I don't now what has done to the glass. it also happened on the back glass . And all have the same patterns .Is there a case called glass sickness that is eating itself??? <Mmm, I would have a professional look at these markings... appear to be failures in the glass itself. Is this a laminate type material?> I feel stupid asking these questions but I don't have any other explanation to myself. I'm extremely confused I hope you now something about this or have seen it before and can give me some kind of advice Thank you all Regards Viken <Thank you for writing... As stated, I would have someone who knows glass manufacture well take a look on-sight here. Please do make it known what they state. Bob Fenner>
Scratch Like Things in the Glass, Follow-up Hello Dr. Fenner <Just Bob please> Thank you for your reply to answer your question its not a laminate glass its  just a regular type. <I see... I will tell you, these do look like imperfections, if in float glass much better than laminated... perhaps an artifact of the gear used for transferring the molten silicate...> The explanation that I was able to give to myself so far is that these markings were already there when I bought the glass but they were not visible to the normal eye. when the salt water was added the salt by time entered these very tiny cracks and it gave it the white colour and became visible .and every once in a while a new one is appearing. <... this last concerns me> My main concern is if it is a dangerous case. Thank you again Viken <Am hesitant, as you might concur, to assure you that there is no problem here... Likely not, but I would still have someone out from the "glass business" to look. Bob Fenner>

Scratch in glass I recently purchased a 30 gallon glass aquarium.  I noticed it has a surface scratch on the back pane of glass that is about 6 inches in length across the back.  Should I be concerned?  Does a scratch typically lead to a crack or leak under pressure when filled with water? Thanks for your help. <scratches on the glass unless quite deep are unlikely to cause any problems left undisturbed. It would simply be a weakness if struck or torques there at best. If its on the outside, seek a filler of you prefer. Best regards, Anthony>

Re: scratch in glass I recently purchased a 30 gallon glass aquarium.  I noticed it has a surface scratch on the back pane of glass that is about 6 inches in length across the back.  Should I be concerned?  Does a scratch typically lead to a crack or leak under pressure when filled with water? <Not simple surface scratches. I would test fill it outside... and consider taking it back to your dealer if it concerns you. Bob Fenner> Thanks for your help.

380 Gallon Glass Aquarium scratches WWM crew, I have read many messages and I am afraid I already know your answer.  I have a 380 gal Oceanic aquarium in my Great Room which I set up 2.5 years ago.  I wish I would have know how important it was to keep scratches to a minimum and I wish I would have spent the money earlier on this expensive Magnavore cleaning magnet which has kept new scratches to a minimum.  I have several scratches on the inside of the glass I created cleaning within the first few months of the aquarium.  Is there any remedy to get rid of the scratches without having to empty my now mature aquarium?  I am willing to spend whatever it takes.  Do the acrylic scratch removers have any utility on a glass aquarium?  I have called some jewelers and they indicate a jewelers rouge might work, although I would try it on a piece of glass outside the aquarium first.... do you think this might work?  Is there such thing as ultra fine sand paper that I can use and if so any idea where to procure it?  I am willing to spend hours on each scratch to get rid of these blemishes.  If ultimately the answer is "you have to live with it" then in the future, would your recommend an acrylic aquarium that I could repair or would you recommend a glass aquarium and just be more careful? Thanks in advance for your help!  Bob Wood <Sorry to say they are there for the duration with glass Bob. Acrylic can be polished, but scratches much easier to begin with. The answer depends on you, your needs, (earthquakes) and if you might scratch your tank again, esp. with sand or moving rock.  Rock can gouge acrylic pretty good, but again can be polished. If you do switch to acrylic, get the special acrylic pads for your Magnavore. Craig (who has a few scratches too.)>  

- Replacing Severely Scratched Glass Pane - <Good morning, JasonC here...> I picked up a 90 Gallon "Reef Ready" tank over the weekend as part of a package deal for a really good price.   The guy was getting out of the hobby so he gave me all of his stuff (tank, stand, hood, VHO lights, CO2, wet dry, pump, etc) for $200.00 and my time to break the tank down.  I did have to drive two hours one way to get the stuff, but who reading this wouldn't?. The only down side is that the tanks front panel is severely scratched, to the point it would distract me from any wildlife I placed in it for viewing.   I read the FAQS on tank repair but I still remain unclear of recommended process.   I noticed that it is recommended to cut out all of the old silicone instead of just the area on the pane you are replacing.    When you (the collective) suggest removing "all" of the old silicone, not just the affected area, and re-siliconing the entire tank are you suggesting that I cut out all of the silicone inside the tank, but leave that which is gluing the glass together,  then re-seal all inside corners OR are you suggesting that I remove all panes separating them form the others and take every little smidgen of silicon off and start from scratch. <Leave the panes attached, apply a new bead to all the corners and seams.> Lastly, the alternative it to purchase a new replacement tank for roughly $270.00, and attempt to sell the scratched tank as it is, it does hold water. <Or use it for a mix tank or sump.> Would you attempt the repair or go with the replacement? <Depends on how much you value your time or enjoy fix-it projects.> Thanks ahead of time. <Cheers, J -- >

Small scratch? Hi, I have a 20 gallon long tank with a possible 3/8 ths of an inch scratch on the back. Located on the upper half of the back glass wall. I felt it with my finger nail . And I felt the possible scratch on the out side. And then I felt it with my finger nail on the inside, and felt nothing. Should I be concerned with the possible scratch? If so what should I do?/ <Not likely a problem. I might "test fill" the tank in your garage and leave for a day or so... if this settles your mind. Not likely to fail if glass or acrylic. Bob Fenner> - Scratched Glass - Top of the morning to you! <And you as well.> A quick summary/question. I got a "great deal" on a used Oceanic Reef Ready tank (24"x 24"x 24").  The catch....the front glass is scratched to the point of distraction ( I bought it sight unseen from "a friend"). The overflow is positioned dead center on the back panel so rotating the side-to-front is not a good option. Also, there is no center bracing.  I am considering replacing the front glass (3/8") panel. In your experience, is this a reasonable project or folly? <It is a project, that much is for sure... not unreasonable.> I am a diehard do-it-yourselfer (Civil Engineer), so I enjoy taking on projects as long as they have a good chance of a positive outcome.  Also, any tips would be greatly appreciated. I'm not sure how to attack the top and bottom trim/braces. <Cut them out... is really what you will need to do is disassemble the most of the tank, clean the seams very well, and then re-silicone in your new front panel.> Thanks much for your time. gr <Cheers, J -- >

Removing Scratches from Glass Hi Bob. I will be moving soon would like to remove some scratches my tank has obtained over the years. Do you have any suggestion on the best method to remove light scratches from glass. Is buffing the best method or is there a filler that is safe to use? If buffing is the only way, what will I need to do it? <On glass... better to actually ignore... maybe see if you can turn the tank around 180 degrees (with the hope that the current "back" side isn't as bad. Buffing out can be tried but is really a LOT of work... and can weaken the glass... heat burnishing can be tried on very thick glass tanks... by professional glass folks... but is rarely worth it for home hobbyists... maybe the present container can serve as a sump for a newer tank? Bob Fenner>

Repairing Glass Scratches - Lighting a Reef Tank Hello Jason, is Bob still away? <<Hello, he is... he should be back Friday 12/7 although I doubt he'll be back in gear that day.>> I was the one who emailed you about my Lubbock's fairy wrasse. <<ok>> Anyways, I have a few questions. Here is a short history of my tank -its been up for 4 years -38 gallon (36" by 12" 20") with 60 watts of light -Inhabitants include Lubbock's fairy wrasse and a Centropyge argi angelfish, (nice to have a group of fish without compatibility issues) <<not too many arguments to get into in a 40 with two fish - a very good choice in my opinion, and aren't those argi's funny...>> Question 1: The tank is four years old and has quite a few scratches on the inside glass, is there any product that can help remove the scratches? <<on glass, erk... I don't think so. If it were acrylic, that would be a different story. I don't think there's anything that polishes glass that you want to put in your tank.>> Question 2: Since I am only 14, I don't have that much money, but I want to upgrade lighting, and I am trying to find a cheaper way of going (but enough to keep my corals thriving). I am interested in keeping shrooms, zoanthids, leathers and colts, and possibly a few hardy hard corals like bubble coral. I believe power compacts and VHOs both have 96 watts per for a 36" long tank. How many watts would you recommend for the inverts I am interested in keeping? Two power compact bulbs or one? Any other good ways to light my tank, (not metal halide, too expensive). <<ah sure. I'm a big fan of the "get as much as you can afford" philosophy when it comes to lighting so... power compacts, whatever you can afford.>> Also, my dad is worried about upgrading lights because I told him that my Atlantic pygmy angel comes from relatively deep water in the wild (even the fish is tank-raised). Will the increase in lighting harm him? <<Tell Dad it will be fine, the argi will do just fine.>> Sorry to bother you, and good luck keeping up with all the questions! Thanks <<Thanks, need some luck there, I'll tell ya'. Cheers, J -- >>

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