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Question on Harlequin Shrimp... Price Gouging...
-- 08/26/07 Hi Guys : <Hi there! Mich here.> I'm in
Australia (if it matters), <In that case, G'day mate!>
and I have seen a pair of Harlequin Shrimp for sale at a local
aquarium. <OK.> I have done a lot of research on this
species, and I have been keeping marines now for over 20 years,
so I feel I can adequately care for them, <Hopefully you have
don't all you homework re their specialized care
requirements, i.e. a diet of echinoderms, primarily live
seastars.> but my question is - Do you think that $350.00 is
over priced for a pair of these? <RIDICULOUSLY OVERPRICED!!!!
At that price, take the money and go to the GBR and collect
yourself!
http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=749&N=0
Approximately $A73 from this website, you may be able to find
cheaper. Happy shopping! Mich>
Re: Question on Harlequin Shrimp... Price
Gouging... -- 08/27/07 Hey there Mich : <G'day
apparently nameless Aussie marine aquarist ;) > Love your
sense of humour ... <Heehee! Thank you!> Thanks so much for
your reply. <Welcome!> I appreciate it immensely. <In
that case, you are immensely welcome!> I have been doing lots
and lots of additional research on these little guys, so that I
am assured I provide the best care possible. The species I see
for sale on the net is Hymenocera picta, but the species for sale
here is H. elegans. Would that make a difference to the price
issue, or am I still being extremely ripped off? <I'm
sticking with the latter! http://aquaticaonline.net/shrimp.html
Still under $A100 for two.> (I must say though that I have
never seen any for sale before, and these little guys are just
gorgeous). <They are quite pretty... I just have a hard time
with their eating habits personally. More info here:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/harlequinshrimp.htm > The other
issues are - 1. It's illegal to collect them myself, or I
damn well would <Heehee! Me too at that price!>
(I've been a scuba diver (Divemaster) for as long as I have
been keeping marines), <Am not familiar with collection
practices there, but sometimes there are variances for personal
or educational use. You might want to explore this option if the
GBR is a possibility.> 2. The species for sale here is
different to what is for sale on the net, and <I still
don't think this justifies the price difference.> 3. If,
(and I do mean IF, though I would put all efforts into it), I
could get them to breed, my return would be worth the effort.
<Mmm, I would caution you here, generally any breeding is
quite challenging for most aquarists, and profitability is seldom
the motivation for dedicated breeder. You can read of some trials
and errors here:
http://www.projectdibs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1112 I am not
aware of harlequin shrimp being successfully raised by the
hobbyist.> Just wondering if you know of somewhere else I can
get H. elegans that would export to Australia, because these guys
are extremely rare to see for sale over here. <I'm sorry,
but I am not well versed in import/export issues. But I do see
them being offered for sale on line
http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/prod/213707/product. the website
picture shows H. elegans but is not specific as to the
species.> Like I said previously, I have never seen a pair for
sale before. <I'm not sure what the reason is for this. I
know they are not terribly uncommon here in the USA and
frequently see them at the LFS. Wish I could be more helpful.
Good luck to you, my nameless friend, I would do more research
before parting with that kind of cash for these lovely creatures.
Mich>
Re: Question on Harlequin Shrimp... Price
Gouging... No Supply and Demand 8/28/07 Hey again Mich
- <G'day Ray! My no longer nameless friend!> I'm
really beginning to like conversing with you. <Nice to hear
and I with you.> Your sense of humour is very appealing.
<Heehee, if only everyone thought that... :) > My name is
Ray Grinberg (no longer nameless) ... ; ) <Nice to meet ya
Ray!> While I was waiting for your last reply, I did some
extra research on the availability of H. elegans, <Glad you
could be productive!> and I discovered that for some unknown
reason, Harlequin shrimp are incredibly rare to get in Australia.
We do have very, very strict laws about collecting on the GBR.
<As MarthaS. would say, "a good thing".> You
require a permit, and there is no getting around it. The
government is very strict on that issue, to stop exploitation,
and I agree with it, having dived it for 20 years now. <So you
likely see the benefit.> The other big problem is that we are
not allowed to import invertebrates into Australia from other
countries, <Was not aware of this, thank you for edifying
me!> which is why aquariums don't out-source their stock,
and Harlequins very rarely appear on stock lists for sale,
therefore, they are very rare and expensive here. <Ahh, makes
sense.> It looks like I may just have to live with that...
<Yikes, better you than me!> I am aware that breeding these
guys is rare and very difficult, (and I wouldn't do it
specifically for profit), but the challenge of breeding and
raising them would, (for me at any rate) become a natural
progression to paying such a high price. <Understandably.>
For something so rare over here, I would have to take the
challenge and try. <Couldn't hurt.> If you ever see a
site that sells in Australia, or can somehow export over here, I
think there would be a lot of people that would love to know ...
<I would imagine.> Thanks for all your help, and friendly
conversation. <You are most welcome, the pleasure is mine.>
Ray Grinberg ... <Michelle Lemech>
Re: Question on Harlequin Shrimp... Price
Gouging... No, Supply and Demand... What the Market Will Bear...
8/28/07 Dear Michelle - <Hello Ray.> It seems our
conversation is nearing its unfortunate, though inevitable end.
<Possibly.> I wish there was more I could write to you
about, as I have loved communicating with you, but, alas, I
don't wish to waste your valuable time talking rubbish.
<Communication/interaction/sharing is seldom wasteful.> It
seems that the price for the Harlequins I have seen is a little
extravagant, even by Australian standards, <Yes.> but I
doubt I will ever see another pair for a very, very long time, so
I may have to just accept it. <Is your choice, lies with in
your control ultimately.> These little guys are extremely
beautiful though, and in perfect condition, so I may as well get
them as someone else. <That's one way to justify it!
Heehee!> I will be dedicating a tank just to them, and be
assured that with such a high price, the greatest care will be
given to provide for their every need and desire. I think they
may well become the most spoiled, pampered shrimp in the world...
<Sounds like they could be in the running!> May I keep in
touch, and ask questions on their care if needed? <Of course!
Why we're here! Please let us know how any breeding attempts
fair.> Thank you for all your help. <You are quite welcome
Ray. Mich> Ray
Re: Question on Harlequin Shrimp... Price
Gouging... No, Supply and Demand... What the Market Will Bear...
Future Breeding Efforts 8/30/07Michelle -
<G'day Ray!> I just had to reply ... (any excuse)
<Heehee!> I guess it is just a justification for paying so
much, but if I don't get them, someone else will, and I will
miss out. <It's OK. It is up to you. It is your decision.
It is your money (I'm presuming you didn't rob a bank! Or
if you did, then it is not your money and give it back!) and your
decision as to whether you choose to use that money to have the
privilege of being solely responsible for the care and health of
these beauties.> I think these little critters are worth
getting hold of, and I do so knowing full well that I am being
taken for the ride of my life. <You are making an informed
decision. You know that they sell for significantly less in other
countries, but that does help you when importation is not
possible (or doesn't appear to be possible). So this price,
thought exorbitant elsewhere, is likely what your current market
will bear.> I will be trying to breed them, and rest assured
that I will indeed let you know how the breeding attempts fair.
<Look forward to that! I do wish you much success. The Project
Dibs (Desirable Invertebrates Breeding Society) website may be a
good resource for you. Their mission is to create an online
community collaborating on openly sharing knowledge of how to
breed marine invertebrates. They do have a good deal of
information and is a worthy project.> I don't expect to be
successful, but if I pamper them enough, you never can tell.
<Well, I can tell you it will take a lot more than pampering!
There is a lot of work that is required of such an effort. At
this point the care requirements of the fry is not understood.
Success may come, but only after a lot of trial and error, and
likely a good bit of frustration and perhaps heartbreak. But,
hopefully success will be achieved!> I have been looking for
all the info I can get on the subject and I think feeding will be
the greatest challenge (as it usually is with fry). <Mmm,
feeding the fry is a challenge, but from what I read, I don't
think that is the biggest challenge; the unexplained deaths would
be my biggest concern. Feeding might be less of a challenge if
you are near tropical water which perhaps you (hopefully) you
are.> I've bred a few marine species in my time, <Then
you may have some good experience to draw from. It is likely good
that you are considering purchasing these beauties. You have the
means, experience and desire to perhaps advance the reproductive
efforts of these lovely shrimp.> and I definitely think they
will be well worth the challenge. <Will be a challenge for
sure! I wish you much enjoyment and much success! Mich>
Ray.
Re: Question on Harlequin Shrimp... Price
Gouging... No, Supply and Demand... What the Market Will Bear...
Future Breeding Efforts My dearest Michelle - <My dearest
Ray, how shall I start the love letter? Heehee!> Rest assured,
I did not rob a bank in order to afford the Harlequins <Whew!
I can sleep now!> ... but a bank loan was definitely an option
... <Heehee... such is this hobby/illness/addiction...>
Actually, it was plain old desire. If you want something enough,
you'll find the money. <So has been said.> The DIBS
will be a place I will frequent, in my search for knowledge.
Thank you very, very much for that little gem. <My fellow
crewmember, Brenda, pointed me to this little gem, so we must
thank her as well!> I think that success in breeding such a
difficult species may well lie in scientific rationale + trial
and error, rather than hope and heartbreak. <Oh I absolutely
agree, hope and heartbreak are often the emotional products of
trial and error for those who are gifted enough to connect to
their emotional being.> I don't assume to be the person
the "break the code", but I may achieve some limited
success, and in doing so, pass on what I learn, so that the
progression of knowledge will lead to success for someone else in
the future. That is my realistic view, <A noble goal.> but
my heart still wants me to be the one (we can dream anyway) ...
<The dream is often the first step.> I appreciate, and
thank you for your encouragement. <You're very welcome my
friend, and I do hope your dreams come true. Mich> Ray
Grinberg.
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