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Stocking for a 180 gallon FOWLR
aquarium 7/24/10 Use of Canister Filters, SW, Koran Sys., Selecting a/the "truth" -- 06/07/07 Guys, I found this on FAQ http://www.wetwebmedia.com/marcanistfltfaqs.htm, . You said to read about the systems and such, Bob said the FX5 canister filter might not be a good choice and I have too many incompatible fish in my small 80 gal tank, but... <Yes> Under Canister filters, the FAQ says they can be good for bio filtration. <Can... in actual practice the use of canisters period has some dire potential... should the power or pump go out for a period of time... an hour or more let's say... and resume... the anaerobic activity can be troublesome... to deadly> The FX5 I'm using is about the largest in the industry, strictly bio only, and is easy to clean if necessary. <Good features, points> Using additional filtration for mech/Chem and a skimmer (of which I just purchased a larger one), by reading some of this FAQ it looks good. The question answered below makes mention of the other filtration besides the canister needing to be addressed but doesn't dissuade the writer from using them. <Antoine's opinion at the time...> Secondly, the writer has a 55gal with similar bioload, that being a Koran angel, a yellow tang, a moon wrasse (thinking Lunare wrasse or similar), plus some others. There is no mention of concern about incompatibility or bio overload for the tank size. <Again... I certainly would mention... Please, not to be argumentative here, take a look around reference works re Pomacanthus...> I'm adding another 25 gallons with the 80 gallon, plus with the designs to go to a 135 in the very near future. <Still too small for this species...> Now, the shark is pretty stationary (and currently only 6", but yes, will grow), and yes the puffer creates a bigger bioload on the tank. But the three large fish (not large yet in the 80, larger with time in the 135), that being the doggy, the tang, and an angel, ought to be similar to gentleman's livestock below and there was no concern mentioned in this FAQ. <Again... keep reading. Selecting one input from a small sample is not going to grant you much insight... Yes, even if it were mine> A Koran gets pretty large, too, and in a 55gal? <Yes> See, I did go back and reread the FAQ on compatibility of the three fish, and with the yellow tangs didn't see where there was a direct conflict. Angels can be aggressive, yes. Some actually recommend puffers as good tank mates with these fish, too. Just stressing again that the below question was an example and isn't my original Q. Two, I am in NO WAY being critical of any WWM answer, as you guys have been really helpful to me, but I just wanted to point out that sometimes when I do reread the previous stuff I get some conflicting info. Below quoted from FAQ on Canister filters: "Re: Filter change Hi all- Thank you for the reply to my filter question. As a follow-up, will switching from a hang-on filter to a canister make a significant difference? <most canister filters are larger than hang-ons and may very well be more effective by virtue of their size. Pick a good brand like Eheim that has been around for decades and is tried and true> I am currently running a 55 gallon saltwater aquarium with about 30 pound of live rock, a CPR Bak Pak skimmer, an undergravel filter, and a Whisper hang on filter. Basically, it's a FOWLR (plus one starfish) with a Cardinalfish, Koran angel, yellow tang, two striped damsels, and moon wrasse. <hmmm... do maintain that UG filter diligently> The biggest reason for my considering a filter change is the frequency with which I'm changing the filter pads, sometimes twice a week. <either you are feeding WAY too much food or your skimmer has not been adjusted to collect good skimmate DAILY or a combination of both. A canister filter is not going to solve your problem... only put a bandage on a symptom> I know a canister filter requires maintenance as well, but I wonder if I'm harming water quality by having a filter with less filtering ability (although water parameters test fine). <if you get the canister, do modify with a course foam block (like from a Hagen AquaClear filter) on the intake strainer. Rinse and reuse this frequently and this will dramatically extend the life of the media in your canister> Thanks in advance for all your help. All good wishes, Daryl Klopp <best regards, Anthony>" <Please read here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/marine/fishes/angels/pomacanthus/koran.htm and the linked files above. BobF> Koran angel and yellow tang, env. stress, env. 2/14/07 Hey guys, First time writer here, and I must say this is a fantastic website that I've spent a lot of time on and need to spend even longer on. Ok I have two questions for ya. First I'll give the quick background on my tank. It's a 75 FOWLR it includes a clown, 2 damsels, a 4-line wrasse, yellow tang, and Koran Angelfish. <Will need more room> The tank has been running for 2.5 months now. About 2 weeks ago I switched heaters and the temp spiked up to 86 on me then I just barely adjusted and it bottomed out around 76. <Yikes!> I then put my old heater back in and things are fine (I actually just bought one of those digital probe temp checks with an alarm that goes off when the temp gets outside 76-82 I nice tool to have) <Neat> anyway a week later or so the yellow tang I believe started hemorrhaging with the red lines on his face and breathing really quickly and not eating. A week later he has I think mostly settled down and is eating some and swimming around a bit again-still breathing quickly and the red lines are still there. So I'm thinking he's on the mend. <Likely so... maybe brought about by the thermal insult, what it wrought in turn...> A few days after the tang developed his symptoms the angel got a what looked liked a fungus on one of his fins a small cotton growth. I fresh water dipped him and a few days later it fell off or went away but now he has a couple more spots now on the body only size of a pin head though. Wondering what you guys think-I've been through all the Koran angelfish FAQ's and not seen this. <Might be just "stress" markings...> My tank conditions are 79 degrees, 1.021 density, <I'd raise this... see WWM re> 20-40 ppm Nitrate <And lower this... Ditto> and pH between 7.7-8.0 (I have a difficult time here in MN keeping my pH between 8-8.3 seems like I'm buffering constantly) <Uh... that website... read> with a BioWheel 350, Prizm skimmer, and 10 lbs LR. I know the filtering process could be more but I'm planning on buying a 180 tank and have been buying the sump, pumps, larger skimmers, bio balls and everything else to get ready for that. lastly the diet of the fish is... the tang and angel get Nori and Romaine lettuce, <I'd drop this... may be part of your problem here...> angel frozen fish food (sponge and algae) some frozen brine shrimp, then flake food. I know I wrote a ton but I figure you should see the whole picture. Thanks again for the great website Jeff Fitzmorris <Read on my/our friend... Read on. Bob Fenner> Three different factors. Clownfish beh., Koran Angel Sys., SW filtr. 8/21/06 Dear Mr. Bob Fenner <Rachel> Hope everything is fine there! <Yes my friend. Thank you> I need your option on three different factors. I have an 80G with 1 Bannerfish 4', 1 Hippo tang 3.5' and 1 Clownfish 1.5'. My Banner and the Hippo are very peaceful but as I added my Clarkii Clown 5 days ago it hides behind my Power-head but comes out and swims around when food is added and then he goes and hides again. Do you think he is in stress? <Yes... but normal, to be expected. Takes a while to "get settled in"> and as a result will be infected with Parasites or something? <Mmm, no... or at least not necessarily> Until now I had no such outbreaks for almost a year now. I am just worried as I have heard sometimes stress will initiate bad outbreaks. <Correct... hence the desire for quarantine, careful observation> Do you think I should remove the small clown? Or if I introduce another 1.5' or 2' Clarkii clown, will it make things positive? <I would start quarantining a/the new Clownfish if you intend to add one...> Can I add a Koran Angel fish 3' to my 80G? <Mmm, no, not really... this Pomacanthus will grow to be too large, cause too much stress in this sized setting> I know this is a large angel and my tank will soon be smaller. How soon do you think this will happen? <Months...> Or is the fish already too big for my 80G? <Nearly> I can return this fish if it grows too large to my LFS. So do you think it's alright to introduce this fish to my tank at the size of 3"? <Not a good idea> I need to know what equipment I will need to maintain my tank perfectly. I already have 1 Large Canister Filter with 3 bags of Activated Carbon and Bio-balls, 2 Power-heads, 1 Protein Skimmer with another Power-head, 1 UV-Sterilizer 9W, 1 Air Pump & a Heater. What else do you recommend I use to maintain perfect water quality? <Mmm... you could experiment with a sump/refugium... but what you list along with diligent maintenance will do fine. Please read here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/refugium.htm and the linked files above, particularly "Rationale"> I want my Ammonia, Nitrite and Nitrate at perfect 0-levels. Do you think a wet-dry filter is a good idea? <Actually no. Please read here re: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/wetdryfaqs.htm and the linked files above> Please let me know what you think. Thanks, Best regards, Rachel <Welcome. Bob Fenner> Angelfish Questions Love the website. I'm considering a juvenile Koran Angelfish for my 80 gallon tank. I have plans for a larger tank in the future. What is the minimum size for this species? <This fish gets to 15" long. A six foot tank in the 125 gallon range would be an appropriate minimum.> Will the Koran and a dwarf angel (Eibl's, or coral beauty) co-exist? <Given enough room, one larger Angelfish can be safely housed with one of the dwarf varieties.> Or is it one angel per tank, period? Thank you, Rich. <Have a nice day. -Steven Pro> Important fish question Hi Zo I had written to you a couple of months ago about my 33 gal FO tank. I am writing again because I need some advice and you have not been writing on the forum, and I kind of need your advice in this matter. I have a yellow tang, a coral beauty, a cinnamon clown, and a flame goby in my 33 gal. All around 2-3 inches in size. I have a sea-clone 150, a Fluval 204, and 25 lbs of live rock (or what could be dead since I used copper). I saw this baby Koran (1-2 inches) and I fell in love with it. It is not too expensive ($20), and I just can't resist thinking about it. I know that my tank is no where near the size this fish needs when full grown, but what are my chances given its size right now? I know I am going against all fish-keeping rules on this matter, but please do try to understand :) I do consistent water changes and feed quite a lot of seaweed (which this fish needs). I keep the salinity at 1.019. Do I even have a chance in hell?????? please say yes :) Thank you in advance and I am sorry to bother you. Sincerely, MO <Mohammed - I'm very sorry to disappoint you, but the Koran is a challenging fish to keep, it can be prone to HLLE (head and lateral line erosion) and often, the root cause cannot even be ascertained. The aquarist can have apparently perfect water quality, feed an excellent variety of the necessary diet, and still the fish will waste away. In such a small tank, already crowded by a fast moving tang, busy angel, and one of the more aggressive clownfish, you are really, really asking for trouble. The Tang and the Koran can reach more than 10 inches, and both are very active, curious animals - 33 gallons is not enough for the Tang you already have. Dream of the beautiful Koran angelfish - and start planning and budgeting now for the 150 gallon (minimum) system you need to do justice to this incredible animal. (Your Yellow Tang needs this as well, and is certainly almost as deserving as the Koran) Best Regards, Lorenzo> Koran Angel in small space Zo, I know I am not even supposed to ask you this, but humor me please: What is the worst that could happen? What if this Koran is a hardy one and can live for a year or two before outgrowing my tank? Is this even possible/doable? I sincerely thank you for your help and prompt reply as well as your clear concern and willingness to help other fish-hobbyists. Thank you MO <Mohammed, a Koran Angel in your crowded 33g will be dead within several months, no matter how hardy. I know you'll do the right thing! Plan, wait, save - for your bigger tank! Best Regards, Lorenzo> Tangs And Angels Hi Scott How are u? <Hi there! Getting over a lingering flu, but raring to go today!> I am thinking of purchasing a Yellow Tang in the near future what is the best food to feed this guy. <Well, these fishes are renowned for their vegetarian preferences. The ultimate food, IMO, would be some fresh Gracilaria macroalgae> I had a look at your site and everybody has their own opinions. Can you tell me what you think would be the best way to go. <A varied diet, with a heavy emphasis on vegetable matter (of marine origin- NOT lettuce or terrestrial greens)> Also how big does one's tank need to be to house a Semicircular Angel. and how difficult are these guys to keep? <If you are referring to Pomacanthus semicirculatus, you'd need a very large tank, IMO. Like hundreds of gallons, and at least 8 feet in length. These guys can easily attain an adult size of 12-15 inches or more, and range over a wide range in nature. Quite honestly, I don't like to encourage people to keep large angels like this species in captivity. They are gorgeous, and reasonable hardy, but trying to keep a fish like this in a typical sized tank would be like condemning yourself to a life in your living room! It may be okay at first, but in the long run, it would become a miserable and agonizing experience for the fish. I would rather encourage you to investigate many of the gorgeous, small Centropyge angelfish species. These "smaller models" are usually much better suited for captive care, IMO> Thanks Again Ziad <Always a pleasure! Regards, Scott F> Regards Ziad Limbada Koran Angel Juv Stuffed into a 50 12/8/05 Hi, A simple question although it's too late already as my poor Juvenile Koran has died :( Anyway here is the scenario. Had a 50 gallon tank that had fully cycled so ph =8.3 nitrate, nitrate ammonia etc... or undetectable. So generally my water quality isn't a problem as I frequently test them. <These species of angels do require excellent water quality along with a larger tank. Your 50 is too small. I'd be looking at a 100 gallon tank minimum.> My tank only consist of about 5 other fish (2 clowns, 2 Firefish/Dartfish and a small eel) with 2 inch of sand and a couple of bits and pieces of rock and clam shells for shelter. <Eels should not be mixed with fish such as the angels as they create huge amounts of waste. Your tank is too small for the fish you are keeping especially if the clowns are the larger species such as Tomatoes and Maroons.> Anyway I bought a small juvenile Koran angel about 3 inch in length. For the first week he was fine, eating and reacting great. Even bullying my clowns at times. As I have the tank for only about 1.5 month, <Too short of a time for keeping angels in it. At least six months and by the sounds of your decor, not nearly enough rockwork to make the fish feel comfortable.> I thought I'll change it to a QT as I'm planning to get a larger tank. I therefore removed all the sand and rock etc..... in a time of 2 days. Replacing the shelters with PVC pipes. After the removal, the water had of course became cloudy during the 2 days of removal from the sand being removed. Anyway the little Koran became very patchy and pale in colour and over the course of the next week, <I'm sure enough hydrogen sulphide gas was stirred up to cause the problem.> he began to not eat, then started to linger at the bottom of the tank and eventually this 2 days he's been lying on his side at the bottom of the tank. Before he was lying on the tank, when he was just lingering at bottom of tank I have noticed that the fin joints and gill cover was a little red in colour. Anyway today he has died unfortunately. When I first bought him he had 2 pale dots on his tail fin (I was thinking it might be ich but he didn't scratch and it didn't really manifest itself) but I think its not the cause of death. What I wanted to ask was, could he had died from stress <Sure> (although I don't know why fin joints are reddish - I was thinking it might be parasitic or bacterial) if not what other causes may have caused his death. <Too small a tank, water quality down, lack of proper diet, no weekly water changes all lead to reducing the immune system of the fish, and they have a very low immune system to start with. You also didn't mention your means of biological filtration. Do research future fish you may purchase to be sure you can meet their requirements/needs.> Secondly, I've only bought a heater today as the weather became cool, down to about 15 degrees and all my fish stayed at bottom of tank not wanting to eat this morning. I've subsequently bought a heater now, hope it'll do better. The clowns are eating now. My Firefish/Dartfish are always hiding beside the pipe not coming out. I also wanna know why are they doing this. <Firefish do best when kept with members of their own kind and not with fish that have aggressive eating habits. They spook easily in this regard and will hide. It also sounds to me like you have not been in the hobby very long. I suggest you search our Wet Web Media site which provides answers to most questions you may have.> Thanks for your advice in advance. <You're welcome, James (Salty Dog)>
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