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Marine Angels Euxiphipops 10/6/05 Hi, I have a 90 gallon FOWLR tank with 85 lbs of live rock and I was wondering if I could keep a medium sized blue face angelfish (4-6 in). <I would not advise this, the adult length of this fish is considerably over a foot.> My LFS told me fully-grown adults need at least 100g <Your LFS's estimate was modest at best, and that's being polite. This fish will eventually require a tank in the 180+ gallon range.> but I also heard that in captivity they don't tend to reach they're full length. <This is somewhat true, but the common myth that "Fish grow to size of their tank" is ludicrous. As responsible aquarists we should plan for the largest potential size for any of the animals in our care. Furthermore I have personally witnessed the specimen in question to grow to 18" in length in private aquaria.> Do you have any suggestions? <I would not purchase this fish. While I'm pretty sure I made it clear that its potential size disqualifies it from being a good candidate for you, I did not even begin to discus the specifics of (Euxiphipops xanthometopon). This fish is notorious for not adapting to captivity or captive foods. It is best left to veteran aquarists with large mature tanks. For more info on this fish please research via the WWM FAQ's. Adam J.> Marine Angels Hey Bob, how's it going? <Bob is in Cozumel right now. Steven Pro at your service.> I have a question, I have a 55 gallon FOWLR, 45lb LR about 3" of LS a protein skimmer will be upgrading soon to a AquaMedic, a Fluval 404 canister filter, 2 MaxiJets powerheads on a Wavemaster for circulation and a Tessellated eel it's been set up for 8 months now. I was going to set up a 55 gallon reef tank until the other day I saw a Blueface Angel at the LFS that left me and my girlfriend amaze and from that day on I been researching info on these spectacular fishes and I was reading that these fishes don't last long on captivity <They are not the hardiest of Angelfish.> and also that they need a minimum of 100 gallon for them to be happy. <I would even say larger.> Could you tell me what is there average life span in captivity <Their average lifespan is probably remarkably short due to all the losses in the chain of custody. If you obtain a healthy specimen, though, you could expect it to live for ten years or more.> and could I keep small specimen in my 55 gallon for a while? <I cannot recommend this.> I know is kind of small, could it last more than a year in my tank? <There is a greater likelihood that this additional stress of being cramped would be more than your fish could tolerate.> I am still going to school and do not have space in my apartment for a bigger fish tank but I am looking forward in keeping a 125-180 in a year or so from now. <I would get a dwarf Angelfish for now, something in the genus Centropyge.> Thank you for your help. By the way I love your website. <You are welcome. -Steven Pro> A very hardy marine Angelfish - Annularis (Blue Ring) 2/16/05 Thanks for the quick and accurate response Anthony. Let me ask you another question while your here, lol. I asked this before but the other person didn't seem to be too familiar with this angel. Would it be ok to start (I know it will eventually grow out of the tank) off a 5 inch annularis (blue-ringed) angel in a 65g FOWLR with about 65lbs of rock? <the fish is fantastic... but the tank is way too small! Do a search for this angel on fishbase.org... see the adult size and do consider that a strong swimming active fish of even 5" is too small for a tank scarcely three times as wide as its length. It would be a disappointment to see such a beautiful fish placed here> If it is ok to START with, at what size/inches should I take him out and find him another home or get a bigger tank? <many well intended folks mean to get larger tanks in time, but never do (life, business, money, family, etc). PLEASE do not take any fish into your care that you cannot properly house from the start. They grow fast mate... or they stunt when not given proper care (and die prematurely). A minimum of a six foot long tank please> There will only be one other medium sized butterfly in the tank and some really small bottom/rock dwellers. Thanks a lot Ant <I do hope you can keep this fish... they are fabulously hardy, long lived and so beautiful. Best regards, Anthony> Angelfish Hi! I have a question regarding angelfish compatibility. Years ago I had a 180 gal aquarium and I had in this tank living peacefully together the following Angels: Clarion (when they were only $300) <I used to collect, broker these to wholesalers> , Scribbled (Large Male), Queen, Koran & Emperor. This was clearly the locker room effect and it worked. I now have a 360 gal tank and I have the following: Cross hatch triggers (mated pair) <Neat> , Large Male Scribbled, Harlequin Tusk, Naso Tang (Large), Yellow Tang. I have the opportunity to purchase a large Angelfish and have a choice. I am wondering which would be the most compatible with the Scribbled. The choices are: Large Maculosus(12"), Large Red Sea Emperor, large Asfur. If none of these are good and they might threaten my Scribbled which is 8-9" can I go with a smaller specimen? Jim <All three would go... my preference is one of the subgenus Arusetta... the Mac or Asfur... can go at the size listed or smaller. Bob Fenner> Questions from a beginner. Angel, Butterfly et al. stocking Hello WWM Crew. <Hi there> I'm a beginner in this hobby with very limited experience. My only experience is with freshwater fish (African cichlids). I've decided to move on and get a 150-gallon marine tank. I'm primarily interested in large angels and butterflies. (1) With full adult sizes in mind, how many large angels can I keep in this tank? <One or even less> (2) If I can only keep 1 because of the size of the tank and/or compatibility between large angels, how many butterflies can I have with 1 large angel? Can I add tangs/surgeons, too? How many? <Possibly... depends on species...> (3) Will this be the maximum bioload for this system? <Could be> Any help you can offer will be much appreciated. Thanks. Arnel <Best help... take your time... enjoy the journey/process of educating yourself, ferreting through your choices, options. READ over the materials on Stocking, these groups of fishes posted on www.WetWebMedia.com Haste makes waste my friend. Bob Fenner> Koran in Reef? >Howzit guys? >>Itz goin' a'ight. Snowy, chilly, but pretty cool all in all. >First off I just wanna thank all of you running the WetWebMedia.Com site. Keep up the great work knowing that without this site a lot of marine aquarists, including myself, would have made big expensive and shame full mistakes. >>And freshwater aquarists, and brackish water aquarists, and the odd herp fan or two. Then there are the school kids and teachers and people wondering about cures gained from aquatic specimens and so on and so forth. So, what's up? >Now onto my question. I recently purchased a 2 inch Koran Angelfish from my LFS. He had been in quarantine for about 2 weeks @ the shop and has been in my quarantine tank for about 1 week. >>VERY cool. 30 days total disease-free, and he's on his way. >I have given him 1 freshwater dip but otherwise no medication. He's eating Nori, Spirulina, algae and Artemia daily. >>Fantastic, but I think he needs a better variety of meaty foods. Add some chopped krill, squid, octopus, and the like, and soak the Nori/dried foods in Selcon and MAN he'll be righteous in no time! >My question is would he be all right in my 135 gallon reef tank? >>Hhmm.. full reef? Softies, stonies, LPS/SPS? Clams..? >This tank currently houses 2 black clowns, 2 ocellaris clowns, 1 cleaner wrasse (that I've watched change coloration from baby to juvenile and now coming on adult) and 1 Regal tang, 1 Cleaner Shrimp, 1 Pot Wine Shrimp, Hermits and Turbos. >>I'm sure you've heard this before, but the cleaner wrasse will have trouble doing well in a system that is not only small, but has a very real dearth of LARGE fishes upon which to perform its duties. Hopefully, whatever prepared foods he gets will be good enough, but this is often not the case. (This note is for other readers' benefit as well as yours.) >All these fish are babies and have been doing fine for quite a few months now. >>Likely they will/should, but all will grow, and grow a great deal if your system is in top notch shape. Do be prepared to pull the tang, the cleaner wrasse (possibly donate to public aquarium if such is nearby and suitable), as well as the Koran in around two to three years.. maybe less if you're REALLY good! >I've also got a mixed variety of LPS, SPS, 1 Maxima Clam and 1 Radianthus Anemone. >>I would not put a large angel into this mix. I would expect LPS, clam, and quite possibly the anemone to all be sampled to death. >I'm still looking to add a Flame Hawkfish, 2 Neon Gobies, 1 Yellow Tang and 1 Flame Angel. >>In my opinion, when including the large fishes, you may quickly see them become overcrowded. Those numbers and types of fish would be better in a system approximately double the current size. Things to watch for are disease, infighting with lethal consequences, and a failure to thrive. >Will this be a tall order and if so which would be the best to leave out? >>I would really be careful with the angel and those LPS corals, the clam, and the anemone. Really. I'm glad you're adding the Z. flavescens later. As for the neon gobies, I would use THEM for cleaner duties instead of the wrasse. I really love these diminutive little fishes - they're colorful, peaceful, hardy, easy to feed, and just plain neat-O! In a system that size you could easily put in a rather large group, 5-10. >I could take the Ocellaris clowns out at a later stage if need be cause they're also harassing my black clowns. >>To be expected. You may wish to go ahead and get it over and done with. >I'm running an Aqua Medic T1000 Skimmer. >>I think that animal should be performing well for you. Have you mentioned a refugium? I think that for the animal numbers you have and are looking to acquire, you could use a 40-50 gallon 'fuge. Increases water volume, AND you can culture cool macroalgae to feed the tangs! >In the long run the Koran will out grow the tank but by that time my 3.5m x 1m x 1m fish only tank will be up and he'll be moved. >>Excellent! This still may not prevent him from enjoying the table you've set, but in a large system he'll really enjoy him/herself. >Bearing in mind somebody else took home a Koran the same size from the same shipment and he's doing fine in the reef set-up he's being kept in. >>Keep their bellies full and you may have a greater chance of fewer upsets, but be prepared for the worst. A balance needs to be struck. What is worth more to you? Many folks are simply unwilling to take any risks with their reefs, others have frags practically growing out of their ears. Just be aware. Oh! Also, I can't remember the thread (DO search!), but someone on http://www.reefs.org started a thread asking about large Pomacanthids in reef settings some months ago; who's done it and succeeded, or what were your results sort of thing. There are those who have had success, but I honestly cannot recollect their system specs. >Any information will be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance - Daniel >>I'm assuming you've already searched our site for whatever information we have to offer, including the angel faq's. Not too long ago.. alright, I admit, it's getting on to twenty years, but to ME it's not too long ago.. where was I..? Oh yeah, not too long ago the 'rule' was NO large angels in any reef of any kind. Of course, at this time the 'rule' was also that it was impossible to keep SPS stonies, so, there ya go. I'd like to ask you to keep us updated, though, on what results you have, behaviors observed, etc. with this angel in your system. Photos would be nice, but we do ask that all photos submitted be limited to around 300 pixels a side (for space/bandwidth constraints). My point is, it would add to the data/knowledge base, and thus be helpful. Whatever you decide to do, good luck! Marina Regal Angel Enquiry Hi Wet Webbers... <Hi Brett, MacL here with you today.> Just a simple enquiry. Are Pygoplites (Regal) angels reef safe? <NO they aren't, no way no how> Can I trust one in my soft coral/coralline algae tank? <NOPE> I understand their natural diet is supposed to be tunicates and sponges. Sadly, here in Thailand fish sellers (I use this term as most know little or nothing about the creatures they sell and are just out for a quick turn over of stock with little care for the animals in the time they are in the shop/market) feed their reef fish brine shrimp and nothing else. I am not sure if this is due to the belief they are nutritious or just that fish seem to relish them. As long as it is eating, will a regal eat other more beneficial foods with ease when I get it home or is it likely to be a struggle to get one onto them after prolonged feeding with brine shrimp. <Regals are very difficult to get to eat so if you have found one eating that's a good thing. It needs more nutritious foods and it does need the tunicates and sponges in order to stay healthy and live a long and fulfilled life without dietary deficiencies. You can however get these in some types of angel formula foods. Regals are one of the toughest of the large angels Brett but very pretty fish for sure.> Brett Moloney Bangkok Marine Angel Qs thanks for replying bob. I really need help finding an angel for my 65g tank. Not really fond of many of them except the ones I mentioned. what about the Centropyge heraldi (the solid yellow dwarf angel), is that easy to keep? <Please read starting here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/marine/fishes/angels/centropyge/index.htm on to the related files, linked (in blue at tops of pages. Bob Fenner> \ Large Angel - bioload Hello to the Crew, Thanks for the great website and the enormous amounts of excellent information! Here's my situation: I have a 75 gal. tank with 60 lb. of LR a w/d filter and a 12 gal. refugium with macro algae. It is presently stocked with 1 royal Gramma (2 in.), 1 scooter blenny (2.5 in.), 1 bicolor blenny (2.5 in.), 1 pr. of Perc clowns (2 in.), and a blue tang (2 in.). I want to add a large angel (3 in.) as the last fish to the tank. I know the tang and the angel will grow too large for my tank and I am willing to return them to the fish store at some point in the future. I would also like to add some corals to the tank and I'm aware of the risks involved with that as well. What large angel would you recommend and finally, how large can the angel and/or tang get before they need a new bigger home? ***Hello Greg, I would discourage you from adding any more fish to this tank that grow beyond 4", especially if it's enjoying a relatively peaceful existence right now. I assume by "blue tang" you're speaking of Acanthurus coeruleus? This fish should be fine in your tank for some time, but expect it to need larger quarters in a few years. I've seen 75 gallons listed as a recommended minimum tank size, but this is a bit small for this fish long term. Smaller Zebrasoma species such as the yellow tang or Scopas tang do better in a tank the size of yours for a longer period of time. I wouldn't keep that tang in your tank once he gets beyond 6". If you're absolutely set on adding a large angel species, I would add a small maculosus. They are a hardy fish, perhaps the hardiest of the larger angels, and a good fish to gain some experience keeping Pomacanthids. Keep in mind though they grow rather large, and need at least a 125 gallon tank long term. I think he'd be fine for 3 or so years before he reached a size that would force you to move him - say 7". This fish could be kept with LPS corals such as Euphyllias, also mushrooms and SPS corals without much risk. Another option would be P. imperator, and I currently keep one in a reef myself. However they are not as hardy as P. maculosus, and although I consider them also to be one of the hardier large angels, they are not in the same league as the Mac, and I don't recommend them for beginners. Regards Jim*** - Big Fish, Big Tank - Hi, is it possible to have these fish in a tank that is 6 feet long, 3 feet wide, and 3 feet tall? <That's roughly 400 gallons for you fans at home.> This tank will be an indoor pond built with pond liner. Well, here are the fish I want to keep: 1)Queen Angelfish 2)French Angelfish 3)Niger Triggerfish 4)Dogface Puffer 5)Blue Unicorn Tang (The one with the long horn) 6)(3)Yellow Tangs 7)Rooster Hogfish (The BIG one) <I think everything but the hogfish would do fine in this tank. If we're talking about the same hogfish - Lachnolaimus maximus - this fish will be cramped. At it's maximum it will have little room to turn around, even in a system of this size. More information on this fish here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/lachnolaimus.htm > Thanks, Adam <Cheers, J -- > Clown Tang and Angelfish? 13 Aug 2004 Dear Bob and Crew, <Hi MacL here with you this fine evening.> Thanks for your splendid site and your availability to answer question impartially. This is really a great resource! <Thank you so much for your kind words.> I am an experienced aquarist and I am in the final stages of planning a new tank. It will be here, hopefully, in a couple of weeks. It is going to be 180 US/680l gallons and I am thinking about stocking. I would like to try and see if I can keep a small clown tang and raise it with only another fish, an angel. I was wondering what would be best, if a blue ring, a blue face, an emperor or a majestic to cope with the exuberant nature of the clown. What would be the best match? <In my personal opinion I would go with the Emperor. I think they are the healthiest and strongest personality wise.> Many thanks, Massimo UK Pomacanthus/Genicanthus Angelfish Selection Hey, <Hey, Ryan with you today> I am in the current stages of setting up my 240 gal tank. Right now I am in a 75 but will begin the switch in a couple days or so, as soon as I get some feedback. Ok, in my 75 gallon right now I have a stars and stripes puffer, yellow Hawaiian tang, 4 yellow tailed damsels, black and white banded Percula and a true Perc clown. I plan to add in my tank, a zebra moray, flame Hawkfish, Paddlefin wrasse, white cheek tang, blue unicorn tang, tear drop butterfly and a saddle back butterfly. I am also looking to add 1, 2 or maybe even 3 angelfish but I am not sure if there can be 3 angel fish co-existing in a tank together and what angels will not cause any trouble to my other fish. <I'd look to the genus Genicanthus, specifically a Genicanthus bellus. They live in small groups, and aren't as aggressive as other angels can be.> These are some of the angels that I had in mind. --------------------------------------------------- maculosus angelfish Chrysurus angelfish passer angelfish queen angelfish Annularis angelfish imperator angelfish Koran angelfish If you can tell me which of these angel fish pose no threat to my fish in my tank now or the fish that I plan to get. <They all pose a threat, as you're adding a predator. Pomacanthus annularis is the best on your list, for both aquarium health and small adult size. Remember, with each fish you leave out, you're giving the rest more room to be themselves, and more water to buffer their waste. If I were you, I'd limit my selection to 3 or 4 beauties total, and let them roam free in a huge tank. Cheers, Ryan> Thanks, any help is greatly appreciated Fish Stocking and Capacity <Hi, MikeD here> Dear Mike, Thanks for your help.<You're more than welcome> I will give the Sailfin a miss and maybe get a Chevron and Raccoon Butterfly.<or might be better than both> Are the Asfur and Blue ringed Angels any less aggressive than the Koran?<That's always hard to say. With angels there is so much difference between individual fish that it's usually dangerous to generalize> Kind Regards, <Good Luck!> James. p.s. I hate bothering you all with these questions my LFS should know me but they tell you anything.<That's the way with many LFS, and you're no bother at all...in fact, people like yourself are why I'm here.> Add a Rock Beauty? Dear Bob, <HI, You've got MikeD here> I am thinking of getting a Rock Beauty from the LFS I work at.<Not a great idea> He/she is about 5inches total length. We got the Beauty in two days ago. Since then it has eaten a variety of frozen food (even shark formula) and is picking at the algae in the tank. I understand this species has a bad reputation for being touchy, but I really think this specimen is an exception.<Often these can abruptly go down hill with little effort, even exceptional specimens> My tank at home is a 90 gallon FOWLR. It contains 3 small Yellowtail Blue Damsels, a Clark Clown, a Harlequin Tusk, and a Yellow Tang.<Here's your answer, and you actually already know it, right? **grin**> Water quality is excellent. I have a large canister filter for biological filtration (plus the live rock) and I have a bunch of Caulerpa algae growing inside the tank. My main worry is the Yellow Tang. He is about 4inches long and was king of the tank (Until the tusk arrived. The tusk had been introduced a day ago after a few weeks in quarantine). Do you think the introduction of the Rock Beauty will be to much?<Quite likely, yes. Between the tang's aggression, the tank just adjusting to the Tuskfish AND the limit being reached, the addition of even an exceptional specimen can quite likely bring down your whole house of cards. My suggestion is to not push a good thing.> Thanks for your help,<Sorry it isn't the answer you wanted to hear.> Sam Reef Choosing The Perfect Angel...The Search Continues! Dear Scott, <Hello again!> I have sent you a few e-mails about choosing the "perfect" angel for my six foot (approximately 75 gallon) tank and I am really trying to follow your advice but I am having problems. I found out that Lemonpeels are one of the most expensive species and are not readily available. <I guess it's all a matter of where you live! True, they can be a bit pricier than some of the smaller species...Sorry to hear that- I really like them! One of my favorites from my favorite group of fishes (with apologies to Scott Michael!)> I had a look at the other more reasonably priced dwarf's but in general they do not appear to be in good condition and I suspect poisoning or bad collection as most of them originate from Indonesia. Also I was told that these would get hammered by the spine-cheek clowns. <All important issues to consider. Unfortunately, as I heard at IMAC this past weekend, the use of chemicals to collect many fishes is still a major problem in many parts of the world. The presence of potentially more aggressive species will be something that you need to address when you consider the purchase of one of these fishes. It may be as simple as re-arranging rockwork, or it may involve removal (temporary or permanent) of the clowns when adding the angel.> I went back to my original idea of a scribbled but the owner told me that they do not ship well and his customers have not had much success (this was news to me considering that practically every site rates them as a perfect aquarium fish) <They are relatively hardy and long-lived fishes in captivity, but they can reach a length of about 10 inches, and need long-term housing that can comfortably accommodate them. Quite honestly, unless you will be providing substantially larger quarters for the fish in the near future, I'd pass on this fish> The only other Chaetodontoplus he has available are mesoleucos and they score very badly on every site I've seen. <They can really be hit or miss- some thrive right off the bat, and others just don't acclimate to captive life and fade quickly. As with the C. duboulayi, they need a large tank to accommodate them for anything approaching a natural life span> I asked the LFS owner (he is really an importer/exporter) what he recommended and he said that the most successful species were P. Navarchus and P. xanthometopon ( I guess this is a result of the fact that the Maldives are not really that far a way from here and so there is less shipping stress), but these fish are also quite expensive so I can rule them out. <I think that you hit it on the head with your rationale as to why these fishes do well for him. Capture, shipping, and handling are huge issues with these fishes, and proximity to their native range is definitely one way to help assure success with species that have an otherwise spotty reputation for captive success.> The majority of Pomacanthus' are to large for my tank and I read on your site that P. annularis is a shy species which is no good considering the tank is located in area with a fair amount of traffic/use. <Not to mention its 18 inch adult length!> Holocanthus sp. are definitely out of the question considering they have to come halfway round the world and the cost is huge. Can you please help me decide what to do, I'm at my wits end trying to decide what to get! I know that if I am to keep a full-sized angel permanently I will have to get a bigger tank and I am seriously looking at upgrading in a few years time. What species do you recommend for me if I intend to obtain a larger system? The LFS man says Emperors and Korans are also very successful but on your site it states that they are HLLE prone and need huge tanks? <They really do, when you consider their ultimate size and need for "space" in both the wild and in captivity.> I have read practically every WWMedia FAQ that even remotely deals with angels and there have been so many mixed results with various species that I have no clue what to believe about any of them. <Ahh.. Imagine that- differing opinions in our hobby! Seriously, it's important to read different hobby accounts on the maintenance of fishes in captivity. However, it is also helpful to get some objective information from sources like fishbase.org, which provides all sorts of relevant data on many species. In the end, you need to simply educate yourself about the species you want, ask yourself honestly if you can provide for the fish's needs for its entire lifespan, and then make your decision accordingly.> Please can you try and put me on the right track so that I wont screw up. Any advice is immensely appreciated. Yours Sincerely Adam Harbeck <Well, Adam- I certainly do share your concern and frustration regarding making the right decision. I also envy you! Part of the fun (at least to a fish nerd like me) is doing the research on prospective fishes. In the end, though- if it were me- I'd still choose a Centropyge angelfish for your system. Yes, some can be delicate in shipping, but these fishes are every bit as colorful and interesting as their larger cousins, and are better suited for medium to large sized aquaria. When you add in the fact that some are now being bred in captivity, it's an easy decision! Go Centropyge! I'd rather pay more for a fish which stands a better long-term chance of survival in captivity. Do also check on-line sources, such as Marine Center, etc. Good luck! Do keep us informed as the which species you ultimately decide upon! Regards, Scott F.> Re: Tankmates compatibility Adam: Just to keep you posted on my new addition. After 12 days in the LFS the Koran is already in my QT, been there just two days, but seems to be doing fine, already eating everything I've tried (flakes, worms, Artemia, seaweed, etc) now will just have to wait for the Q time (4 weeks) and see how it goes. << That sounds great. Thanks for putting forth the time to ensure a healthy tankmate. >> Alfonso << Adam Blundell >> Big Marine Angels - selection 5/31/04 Hey there,
<howdy> I have puttered around with angels for a few years now,
read a lot, and kept a few angels before selling them on as they grew
etc. In the coming months I will be setting up a new tank. it will be
about 180gals - either a standard 6x2x2, or maybe a 5x2.5x2 (LxWxH) -
or maybe even a 220 (6x2.5x2 - LxWxH). <in light of your angel
question below... it would be better if you could set up an eight foot
long version of any of the above-mentioned tank volumes. Whatever you
choose, do pick the tank with the largest footprint> I plan on
keeping an angel as the pivotal species. To be honest, I like them all
- at least all the Pomacanthus and holocanthus. My favourites would
include: Blue face, majestic, emperor, maculosus, asfur, queen, passer.
My main concern is how suitable these animals are to captivity. In your
view, what's the "best" angel to get in terms of (a)
suitability for this sized tank, (b) ease of keeping & general
hardiness, (c) ease of being able to provide a suitable diet. <one
of the biggest challenges here is adult size. The majestic (P.
navarchus) i the smallest adult at 28 cm... but pretty much the most
delicate on the list here. The P. maculosus is arguably the hardiest
but will be one of the biggest... at 50 cm adult size, this bruiser
should grow as long or longer than your tank is wide! The remainder on
the list (excluding the blue-face as more delicate like the majestic
IMO) are relatively similar in hardiness, adult size and suitability.
My personal preference is for the Passer... I think they are more
disease resistant and hardier. All of these angels have the potential
to be quite aggressive. Have you considered the Annularis angel
(Blue-ring). Far and away gets my vote for best suitability, hardiness
among angels. They are staggeringly hardy and long-lived. Quite
beautiful to see an adult in person too (pics do it no justice)>
This is the biggest tank I will likely ever own, and will be moderately
stocked with fish that fall well below the angel in terms of size,
dominance, and aggression. Cheers, Matt <good to hear, I wish you
the best of luck with it. Do look both angel genera listed here on
fishbase.org for greater perspective (feeding, diet, adult size, etc.)
to help make your decision. Anthony> Fish (Angel) compatibility issue Hey Bob/Crew, <Andy> I was wondering if you have heard anything on keeping multiple SW angels in a system, in a public/store aquarium? <Yes> I have an 80 g. Cylinder and I was thinking about putting in 3 different species of the Centropyge angels. The Flame, Lemonpeel, and the Coral Beauty. I'm not set on those three but I do like the pygmy angels. <Look into a trio of "dwarf-dwarf" angels like Centropyge argi or C. aurantonotus here... this size, shape tank is unsuitable for the mix you propose... constant fighting, unhappiness too likely resultant> I have read a ton saying that it is not possible, but that is in the home aquarium. I have also heard that in an aquarium that will have lots of activity around it you may get away with such a daring combo? Do you think it's possible or just cruel and a waste of money? Thanks in advance, <The latter IMO/E. Bob Fenner> Andy @ Critter Cabana Housing An Angelfish Dear Wet Web Media, <Hi there! Scott
F. with you today!> I live in Western Australia and have been
keeping marine fish for a few years now. We used to live in the tropics
and collect our own fish, but were never skilful enough to catch one of
the local angelfish species. I have since moved to a more temperate
region, which means that I will have to buy fish and would like your
advice on suitable species. I have a 280l (approximately 75 gallons)
aquarium in which I would like to keep a pair of Gold-Stripe Sumatran
Anemonefish and some type of large angel. I have been doing a lot of
research on the best species for someone new to angels and ruled out
the Emperor and members of the Euxiphipops genus but I am seriously
thinking about the Blue-Ringed or the Scribbled Angelfish. I have had a
bought scribbled in the tank before and she did very well for a while
and became very tame before she eventually succumbed to Whitespot
(along with her tankmates). The tank contains lots of live-rock for
grazing and has a good filtration system and lots of water movement. I
really like the larger angelfish but am unsure about the best variety
for me and I would hate to kill such a beautiful fish. Any advice would
be greatly appreciated. Yours Sincerely, Adam Harbeck <Well, Adam-
you certainly have done some homework here. The species that you cite
are very nice animals in captivity. The real problem here, however, is
that your tank is simply too small to sustain a large angelfish for
anything close to a natural life span. Both of the fishes that you are
considering can hit lengths of up to 10 inches, and have a significant
need for large amounts of space to "range" over. A 280L tank
would be the equivalent of you or I spending the rest of our lives in
our living room: No matter how well appointed, or how much beer and
chips are available, it would eventually be a miserable experience!
Unless you will be obtaining a much larger tank (like a 200- 300 US
gallon size, 6 to 8 feet in length), I would simply pass. Many
hobbyists will disagree with me on this, but it is much more humane.
Why not choose among the many interesting, colorful, and adaptable
Centropyge species? The largest of these generally top out at 5 inches,
and you'll have a much better long-term result with them.
That's my take on things. Some can be a real challenge to keep, but
most are pretty straightforward. Hope I can pique your interest in
Centropyge species- they're great! Good luck! Regards, Scott
F> Stocking (large angels in a reef) 1/10/03 I currently have a 125 reef that is home to 1 yellow tang, 1 flame angel, and 2 Percula clowns. All is well, and I am considering adding 1 large angel. <My first piece of advice is to consider this carefully. Many folks have large angels in reef tanks, but there is always risk. They may pick at corals (or flat out eat some!) and can be quite aggressive.> My question for you is: Is it ok to put a French Angel in with my Pacific / Indo-Pacific fish? Or would it be better to add something like an Emperor? <Unless you are trying to maintain a "biotope" system, I don't see why regionality should be an issue.> Obviously, I am trying to choose between the French and the Emperor! <The French is probably a sturdier fish that will probably have been collected and handled better.> Also, what are your feelings about the Majestic Angel? I have heard from some that they are very difficult to keep, and others say they are ok to maintain, but shy. <This may be my favorite marine fish (based on looks alone). Getting a good specimen and observing it eat are mandatory, and even then success is not guaranteed. Removing your yellow tang (at least at first) would probably be a good idea.> I appreciate any advice you could give me! Thank you! <Any of the angels you might choose should be quarantined for at least 2-3 weeks or a month. Juveniles are less likely to pick on or develop a taste for inverts down the road, but avoid specimens under about 2.5-3". Best of luck! Adam> Big Fish...Tough Questions... More of a point of observation
than a query this time folks. My recent research into which angel to
get for my new tank when it is up and running have led me to ask the
question: How big will an angel get in captivity? <Good
question...> This question, really, is quite a troubling one. For
example, I know an Emperor will get 16" - in the wild!!! But in
reality, a juv emperor will not grow on to anywhere near this size in
captivity, and typically gets to 9 or 10" .... and at that size it
is really quite a good specimen, by average home aquarium standards.
<Well, a fish that can reach 16 inches in nature achieving 9 to 10
inches in captivity seems like a stunted animal to me.> The most
logical conclusion as to why this is would be that they simply
don't get enough of the right nutrition. Most hobbyists simply do
not have access to enough of these correct types of food. <Among
other things-particularly, space and water quality> This would seem
to be true for all but one species of note. The French angel, H. Paru.
This species is the only species that I have read about that seems to
grow and grow, regardless of the size tank it is kept in .... that is
to say, these fish are obviously getting the right stuff to mean they
are reaching natural sizes..... <Interesting observation. However, I
wonder if this fish seems to adapt better to captive fare than some of
the other species...> Hence, based on the idea that they are the
only angel that seem to grow naturally in captivity, then would it be
fair to say that they are the only angels that are truly healthy?
Surely, by any normal standards, others angels, such as Emperor's
are not 100% healthy when they are obviously severely stunted.
<Again, a good observation. I'm not sure about the statement
that they are truly healthy- but the fact that they are growing could
be indicative of a variety of factors...> I was of the school of
thought, maybe French angels aren't really suitable for captivity,
because they get too big !!! But my opinion has matured to think that
maybe this very point makes them more suitable for captivity than any
other? What is better? Growing a juv French angel on to 15" in a
180, or stunting a 10" Emperor angel to the same tank? Which is
the lesser of the two evils? <Well, in my opinion, neither is ideal.
Having observed both of these fishes in the wild and in captivity, it
seems almost inhumane to keep a fish that's 15 inches in anything
short of a 10 foot plus tank. In addition to water quality and food,
these fishes have a huge demand for space, in the wild ranging over
huge territories. A 15" fish in a 6 foot tank is like you or I
spending the rest of our lives in our living rooms. Just not right,
IMO> I would be interested in your view point on this subject. Would
you agree that a French Angel grown to near natural adult size from a
small juv. in say, a 180 must be healthy, and as a result happy?
<Well, it's questionable, as outlined above. A relative
term...> And in theory will be a healthier, better adjusted animal,
both mentally and physically, than a similar species that has reached
no where near its natural size? <You bring up a very interesting
point, which is really arguable. I guess I take a near heretical
opinion that large angels should not be kept in most aquariums. Some of
the saddest things I've ever seen were large angels in 6 foot
tanks, externally healthy, but no doubt "bored". I guess we
have to try to put ourselves in the fish's place when contemplating
keeping these animals. I have always been a fan of keeping small fish
in large tanks...> As I say, I'd be really
interested in your views on this theory. I know the simple answer is
"ah but the 15" French should be in a 500 gal tank". But
I am not talking about ideal situations here, but rather reality.
<Yep- the reality is probably that most of these fishes should
simply not be kept in captivity, regardless of whether or not they are
being kept in a 150 gallon or a 700 gallon tank> In any given week,
there are dozens of posts to online web forums, such as Reef Central
etc., about people getting various angelfish species. The overwhelming
majority plan to keep the angels in a tank of 180 gals max, and I think
one half are telling half truths because "they feel that their
72x18x24 tank is after all, only 6 inches smaller than a 180".
Thus assuming that folks are going to put their angel in a tank that is
at max. going to be a 180, and they are going to do this despite they
have read a dozen times that a full size angel needs a bigger tank,
then what would your position be? <Sounds like the old rationale for
doing drugs, etc "everyone's doing it...can't be that
bad..."> Would you: (a) Get the French angel, knowing it will
get to near natural size - 13", 14", or even 15", but
knowing that while your tank is small, your fish is well fed and his
diet is adequate, and you are doing everything else right, and the
animal is responding by being healthy and growing to it potential. OR
(b) Get a different angel, telling yourself that the Emperor will get
16", but knowing that in reality it will not, and that it will be
a smaller fish than the French; hence in terms of size be better suited
to your 180, but at the same time you know it cannot be 100% healthy
because the diet you offer is not even enough to ensure natural growth.
<Honestly- none of the above...After being in this hobby for most of
my life, and killing many animals out of shear arrogance and ignorance,
I can honestly say that I simply "wouldn't go there": I
will never keep, or never recommend keeping this animals in captivity.
I think that they simply don't do well for the long term, even if
the level of care is high...> I won't quote you on this, and
this isn't one of those indirect questions cleverly designed to
disguise the fact I know I am doing wrong .... you know those questions
" my friend has a shark......." instead of just admitting
"I have a shark......". This is just a quest for knowledge in
my part :-) in an attempt to better understand. Personally, I have a
48" tank - although I will be building a large tank under the
stairs in my house.... it will be at least 300 gals ... but I can't
start that until the stairs is built :-) <You can quote me on it...I
"walk the walk" on this one. I just won't keep these
animals. I maintain a large tank (by most standards), but the largest
fish I keep is about 6 inches. I really don't believe in keeping
large fish in home aquariums...But that's me. Your question is
excellent, and does touch on the technical and moral issues of keeping
these fishes in captivity> Tanks for reading, and I look forward to
your opinions. If it could be forwarded onto a couple of guys on the
team, that would be great - just to get a few opinions on it. Regards,
Matt <Glad to throw in my two cents here...Will forward on. Good
luck! Regards, Scott F.> Perfect Little Angel... I am once again planning a system, which this time around I would like to be marginal reef (as opposed to being a full blown reef tank). I am more of a "fish" person, than a "coral" person, so I intend to stock corals to suit the fish, rather than fish to suit the corals. <Great> My "short list" of angels, in order of preference, is as follows: 1) Passer Angel. 3) Queen (ciliaris) Angel. 2) Maculosus Angel. 4) Emperor angel. <All coral eating savages...> I am having difficulty deciding which one to choose !!! I would look for a small specimen in any case, likely around 3", and the tank will be a 180 - with open aquascaping, good flow, and tank mates would likely be a couple of tangs, and a couple of other medium sized fish (i.e. not lots of small 'reefy' fish). Which fish would you recommend? <If you're not worried about your corals? I would raise a Queen Angel.> I fear the passer may live up to the reputation of being both a bully and a coral eating monster!!! Would the queen be much of a better choice? <Possibly yes, likely no. No angel is reef safe, and no angel is predictable. But, their beauty is truly unique. Sorry to say, this is going to be a trial/error sort of tank. Better keep that karma in good standing!> Your thoughts / comments / guidance would be much appreciated - I know there are no guarantees!!! Many thanks for reading, <Thanks for asking!> Cheers, <Cheers> Matt - Livestock Selection, Angel Mix - Hi Crew, I very much appreciate your website and believe it is the finest of its kind. I have a 240 gallon aquarium set up with Live Rock, a Sump, a large skimmer, a double helix UV sterilizer and a denitrifier that keeps my nitrate under 5 ppm. I am a very conscientious aquarist and try to keep my livestock in perfect health. Currently I have 4 tank raised clownfish, 2 tank raised fridmani and 4 cleaner shrimp. I am looking to add (after I quarantine of course) the following fish to my aquarium. Emperor Angel -- caught from the Maldives, juvenile about 3 inches (Is the Maldives a good place for an Emp. To come from?) His color is fabulous and he is fat Personifer Angel -- 5 inches with adult coloration Queen Angel - 3-4 inches including tail Navarchus - 4-5 inches, very fat and eating well. <I'm not a big fan of mixing large angels. These fish don't associate in the wild, and putting them together in a tank, albeit larger than most. A mix like this will cause a good deal of stress on the fish. Do plan to provide plenty of live rock and places to hide so these fish can get out of each other's way.> I have these questions: 1) Is a Maldives Emperor a good choice? <Given the distance it would have to travel, I'd rather have one from the Red Sea if you're going to buck up the cash for such a distant specimen.> The Queen, Navarchus and Emperor are all from my local fish store that quarantines all fish 3 weeks before selling. All are eating well and swim well. The Personifer is being purchased online and I may be gambling with that one. 2) Is caring for a Personifer tough? <No... the trick is to get a good one from the get go.> 3) Is it safe to add these fish in the same tank if I add them simultaneously after 1 month of quarantining? <I'm not a fan of adding more than one fish at a time... it's my feeling that the tank needs time to adjust. But if you persist on this mix, it may be the only way to avoid some expensive losses when one or more of the angels get their heads kicked in by the one who manages to become dominant.> Thanks so much for your website and your time, Matt - Denver, CO <Cheers, J -- > - The Sole Survivor, Follow-up - Thanks for the swift reply. <My pleasure.> My main concern was that I thought the Emperor would be the first to die if the water was of a poor quality or suffered a rapid change. <Actually, given the mix you had, I'd expect to see exactly what you saw, with the Emperor there until the end.> Anyway, are Emperor Angels regarded as aggressive/territorial fish? <Not especially, but there is always individual variation that is impossible to predict.> From reading about these guys it seams to me that they are not aggressive to other fish except for other angels. Is this right? <99% of the time.> What would be a few good fish to mix with the emperor? <Just about anything but another full-sized angel.> Also, a Majestic angel about 1 1/2 inches with adult colours came into my LFS today. Are they hardier than the Emperor. <I'd say about the same, given good capture and so on... sadly, Majestics are often poster children for cyanide capture. The bottom line would be... put a deposit on the fish, and let it stay at the store for a couple of weeks.> Also would they make a better "community" fish when compared to the emperor? <Perhaps... they are fairly easy going and don't get quite as large as some of the other full-size angels. Majestics are one of my favorite fish, but this one could be in trouble - getting kicked around by that emperor. I'd try some other low-cost dither fish like Chromis to check your Emperor's temperament.> The reason I ask is that the Majestic is $360. <Zoinks!> Not cheap and if the emperor is hardier and of the same aggression level then I would rather keep the emperor as I am growing very attached to the little guy. <I think I'd keep the Emperor.> Thanks for your help. <Cheers, J -- > About Rock Beauty Angelfish Hello uncle bob, it's me again. I want to thank to you and your team that give a marine fish keeper an almost full explanation about how to keep marine fish, and your article about the magnificent "Asfur" are very helpful to me, and it is definitely true about the hardy, easy to eat, very diseases resistant, handsome appearance and of course very expensive (cost me $450 for about 15 cm). It is a very easy fish to keep and will eat almost everything I offer to him. <A very good large marine aquarium choice> I bought this fish about a month ago, and now it became a center piece in my aquarium along with my emperor, majestic and French. Actually I have 6 adult angel, but a week ago I donate two of them (the annularis and the blue face angelfishes) to the Indonesia Sea World because both of them are bully my Asfur and French. <Good idea> I'm planning to keep only red sea and Caribbean angelfish, and later if can afford rock beauty and queen, I will donate the emperor and majestic to my sea world again. Right now I decide to buy Rock Beauty, but according to your article this fish are one of the almost impossible to keep in the aquarium together with the regal angelfish, is this correct? <Yes> I need your help of full explanation how to keep this species in fish only tank. What is your comment if you compare this fish with queen angel, which one is more easy to keep. Are the queen as hardy as the Asfur? <The Queen (Holacanthus ciliaris) is much closer to the Asfur in terms of hardiness than the Atlantic Rock Beauty> Thanks a lot for your help and see you again next time. <Better to just have one large marine angel to a tank though. Have you considered having just Red Sea OR Caribbean life in your system? Bob Fenner> Suggested book? (On Angels, Butterflyfishes) Thanks a lot Mr. Bob, so can you suggest (if there is one) an "aquarium book" for angelfishes and Butterflyfishes which tell us what kind of angel or butterfly can be keep and can't be keep. <Mmm, no... don't have such a suggestion. Instead, I would/do encourage folks to read a few "current" titles dealing with this or any other group of organisms, AND use the Internet to query other aquarists (on the aforementioned Bulletin Boards, Chatrooms), AND ask other folks at the fish stores, clubs... re their success, trials, including where they secured their livestock from. To sum up, there is no ONE source of information that is accurate, significant and meaningful on this subject (or much of any as far as I've experienced)... even, yes, penned by myself. Situations change, new sources, suppliers, technology on capture, holding, shipping evolve, new foods that supply needed nutrition are produced... "Things change" I assure you in the survivability/mortality ratio in the species used in our interest> I'll try to guess that if you being ask to give your suggestion about Chaetodon baronessa, triangulum, trifascialis, ornate, meyeri, larvatus and few more you will say that this kind of butterfly is better leave alone in the ocean, and should not be kept? Am I right? <Yes my friend. These are/have been very difficult to keep in captivity... living mainly on live polyps in the wild, not adjusting to captive conditions on many occasions. Almost all are dead within a month of capture> Have you seen my picture, can you give me your opinion, I'm waiting from the expert opinion! Thank you "very very" much for your suggestion and your helping! <Glad to share. Bob Fenner> Searching For His Angel... Hi Scott, how are you doing, hope you are doing great!!, Thank You for your advice, I will Only add 1 more fish to my 140gal office tank, which all ready have a: clown trigger 3" zebra moray eel 10" miniatus grouper 3 1/2" puffer 5" Which one would you recommend, a Volitans Lionfish or a Harlequin Tuskfish??? <Umm...I really advise against either of these...Simply too large, and they give off too much metabolic waste for this tank. I'd opt for something smaller, yet tough...> And in my 95 gal home aquarium I will only add 1 fish (a promise to my wife) an angelfish, which one would you recommend for a beginner the following list?? I all ready did a little research. Passer angelfish blue angelfish French angelfish emperor angelfish Koran angelfish queen angelfish xanthurus cream angelfish yellow band angelfish Please tell me which one is the most hardy and the one you will recommend the most (not considering the price of the fish), but the hardiness of the fish. <Well, the French and the Queen are quite hardy- but these fish require huge systems to keep successfully...Again- I'd pass on all of the above...Please reconsider a Centropyge species...Much better suited to your sized tank> I prefer to spend 100 dollars for a hardy fish than 50 dollars on one that I'll get attached to and die. And consider this is my first angel, and I am a person who takes excellent care of my fish. <I'm sure that you do! Just do a little bit more research into smaller, more appropriate species for your system, and I'm sure that you'll be successful!> Thank you again Scott, you have been great help!!! Saludos de Tijuana <The pleasure is mine, my friend! Good luck with your search! Regards, Scott F.> -Australian fish worth the extra cash?- Dear WetWebMedia crew <Hi!> Is it worth it to buy a fish from Australia? <Sometimes> Are they more colorful? <Sometimes> Or hardier? <Pretty safe bet that they've been net collected at least.> Or just more expensive. <Usually!> I know red sea specimens are worth the extra money (but this angel doesn't come from there) Just wondering and can't find it in the FAQs (looking at purchasing a Blueface angel from marine center). <Since they still commonly come from the Philippines, getting an Australian one will pretty much guarantee you that they have been properly handled and not been juiced. The color may be better as well, but that varies specimen to specimen. Enjoy the new angel (hope you have a large enough tank!) -Kevin> Thanks Gary Peterson Angels Greetings Bob, some advice if you have a moment? I have a large tank, 150 + gallons. I would like to introduce 3 angels, a queen, an emperor and a scribbled. There are a small number of reef fish in the tank currently, primarily tangs, all of which interact happily. There is also a banded cat shark of about 12 inches who sleeps at all but feeding time and again, gets on very well with everyone else. Firstly, will these 3 angels accept each other reasonably well <Mmm, not really. Best to just choose, place one of these> and secondly, to avoid too many skirmishes, which order should they be introduced in? I have a minor infestation of rock anemones (Triffids) and I am hoping that eventually these angels may take care of them. <Mmm, no. There are other pest anemone eaters. Please read re these on the Marine root web on WetWebMedia.com> Your advice would be welcome. Hope you're well. Rolf Evans <Be chatting, Bob Fenner> Looking to buy expensive marine angels Hello, I am currently seeking to purchase a conspicillatus angel as well as a clarion angel. Do you have these fish available for sale? If not, can you get them? What are their cost? Can they be delivered next day? Can these two fish coexist in the same tank (120 gallon tank)? If you have these fish available, I am highly interested. If not can you provide me with any tips on how to obtain these two. Thank you Regards, Dan Vollenweider <We don't sell livestock, but I encourage you to check with Marine Center (.com) and the various bulletin boards re their quality, service for rare, show specimens. Bob Fenner> Mapping out your tank Would a map angel be a good idea for a
centerpiece fish for my 90g FOWLR? it says on a couple of
websites that they would be ok in a tank anywhere from 80 to 100
gallons. <Hi Roger, PF here tonight. I'd have to say no on that
one. I did some digging around of my own, and came across
recommendations for around 135 gallons. I also saw some for 80-100 -
and they were from retailers. Not to disparage them, but I would go
with a more objective source of information. Have you thought about a
Pomacanthus annularis? IMO a very attractive fish and much better sized
for your tank. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but I'd rather
you acquire an animal that would thrive under your care than one that
would be cramped. Have a good evening, PF> My poor judgment, and how it will affect my tank
>hello!! Ok, then I'll respond from this directly,
Roger. Good morning, Marina here. >wanted to say that you
guys have been great!! now, of course, onto my problem. I
have a 90g FOWLR tank that has been up for roughly 3-4
months. i have a purple tang in my quarantine tank that has
been there for a couple of weeks. last week, i saw a
beautiful map angel at the LFS, and, after glancing at Scott
Michael's book, "marine fishes", saw that they
"only" get to about 11 inches, and are ok in a 100 gallon
tank. >>Marina knows exactly where this is leading,
yes ? >i really wanted to get it, and the LFS employee said it would
be fine in my setup. now, i was told in a previous letter to
you guys that it would be better for the fish if i returned
it. but, after three days my LFS only gives 60% of the
purchase price back in store credit. i paid 100 bucks for
the map angel, and would really rather not have to take a 40 dollar
loss. >>Ouch! >i know money is not an issue in the
life of an animal, but it is tough. >>Not an issue in
the life of an animal, but it IS an issue in the life of a human,
yes? Yes, so, I wouldn't be able to take that kind of a
hit, either. >i will take the loss if i have to, but do you think i
can keep the map in my tank until next summer? i own a
180gallon tank that i just received, but i will not be setting it up
until next summer. >>It really depends on the sizes
of the fish, and your filtration and husbandry
abilities. Let's read on. >the other inhabitants are:
1 snowflake eel (6inches) 1 maroon clown (2.5 inches) 1 lawnmower
blenny (3inches) 1 map angel (2.5 inches) 1 orchid Dottyback (2 inches)
and a purple tang in quarantine (3inches) >i have a pretty good
filtration set up, a really well thought out aquascape, and a cleaning
crew of snails, hermits, cleaning shrimp, and a conch. what do you
think? >>I think that, as long as your water
parameters are ALWAYS kept at NSW (near sea water) values, and you
watch that snowflake very closely, you should be
alright. Next summer is indeed over a year, so you'll
need to be prepared if this fish should explode in growth, but I
wouldn't expect him to attain full size in a
year. Touchy, but I think it's doable. Good
luck! Marina >thanks so much for any help, and i know i
made a mistake. :-( >>Don't be sad, just be
diligent, and be sure q/t goes for 30 days. Better safe than
sorry. Is the angel going into q/t as well? I
hope so, again, better safe. Marina Angel Selection >very much! can you possibly offer suggestions on a nice angelfish that is compatible with a dwarf lionfish, that will not eat my feather duster, and will be happy in my 90g FOWLR? >>Hhmm, now that's a bit of a tough order. There are some very hardy angels, Half-Moon, French, Gray, Cortez, Passer, and Clarion, but I can't say that they wouldn't eat the feather dusters. Then we get into the pygmy angels, but they could very possibly end up as a bit of a snack for the lion. For instance, the Flame angel would be relatively easy to keep, but the size is the problem here. >i wanted a Singapore, but i have been told that they are difficult to keep, and i don't really like the Indian yellowtail. any other good ones that won't break the bank? >>As suggested, and also consider something instead like a Copperband or one of the two Longnose butterflies, as relatively inexpensive and hardy, as well as easy to acquire. I'd also pose the query on out board, to get a better idea of the experiences of others. Good luck, and I'm glad I was helpful! Marina New Fish selection I currently have a 200 gallon FOWLR tank and only have one Naso Tang (7" including long tail), two Yellow Tangs(2" each), one Lime Green Australian Wrasse (6"), and one Maroon Clown (3 1/2"). I'm ready to add another fish and I really want it to be an angelfish. I am smitten with the Emperor Angel as well as the Half Moon Angel. Would either of these be a good choice for my next and probably final fish to add? I was hoping to get one about 6 - 8 inches. Would this be adult size? I really want the adult coloring of either of these two angels. If this is not a good choice which other angel would you recommend? <Between the emperor and the moon I would definitely choose the moon. I have kept both fish, in fact I have a moon right now and the emperor is more colorful but the moon is much more outgoing. As far as size I wouldn't go larger than 5? on the emperor. The half moon will probably be fine up to 7?, just make sure he is eating a variety of foods before you purchase him. It would be ideal to get him in the 2-5 inch range but most specimens imported fare well. There are also tank raised moons available but are usually only about 2?. Both these fish will develop their adult coloration with time and it is much more rewarding to get a juvenile and raise him to a full sized adult. The half moon usually changes colors earlier than the emperor also. The moon is often fully transformed around 4? but it make take 6-7? before the emperor is fully changed. Cody> Thanks so much! :) Re: (Too small) juvenile emperor angel Good morning, I have a quick question, I hope. I bought a juvenile emperor (about 2 inches in length) for my 220g FOWLR tank. All water parameters are good as my other fish are doing very well. The angel appeared fine at first, although it did take about a week to start eating (brine shrimp). The last couple of days it has become completely lifeless, sitting on the gravel and not swimming and picking around at the live rock, also has stopped eating. I removed it last night as I noticed its fins becoming very ragged and its tail almost disappearing over night. I've watched carefully and do not see any fish picking on it so I'm assuming it must be some type of parasite. <Or collateral "stress" reaction... resultant from capture, holding, shipping... through the chain of custody of the trade to you.> I gave it a fresh water bath for 8 minutes last night and put it into a quarantine tank. I was going to put it through a copper treatment for a couple of weeks to see if this helps, do you think this is the right thing to do? Any suggestions? If I do put copper in this quarantine/sick tank how long should it stay in there. Thanks <Mmm, please take a read through an old article on this species archived on our site here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/marine/fishes/angels/pomacanthus/imperator.htm I encourage folks to acquire this fish at 10-14 cm... Yours was/is likely "too small" to start. I would not copper its water, but would isolate it as you have, place a bit of live rock for comfort, water conditioning, food availability, hope to coddle it back to health. Bob Fenner> Joe Choosing An Angel? Hello again, I'm currently setting up a new 50 gal (36x15x24) tank today with a 4" sand bed, live rock, a Fluval 202 canister filter (sponge/foam prefilter material, bio balls & a bag of Chemi pure in the canisters) with Aquanetics 8 watt UV sterilizer, 202 203 & 802 powerheads H.O.T Magnum (with empty carbon canister and foam media just to add flow and mechanical filtration), and Red Sea Prizm skimmer. <Keep cleaning and changing the foam media regularly, so that it does not become a detritus/nutrient trap! Work that skimmer hard!> I'm getting a little bit ahead of myself but I was wondering what fish would be good/compatible with a Koran Angel. I also plan on having a pair of percula clowns in there as well but that one's a no brainer. TIA! Kevin <well, Kevin- te Koran, like most larger angelfishes, really needs a larger tank, at least 75 gallons or more, even to start- and then a much larger tank (150-300 gallons) to live out a long, healthy life span. Unless you have plans for such a tank in the near future (like within a year), I'd pass on this fish. They do make great additions to a larger tank, and are generally compatible with many fishes, but need room! Why not consider a much smaller, equally spectacular Centropyge angelfish? There are lots of great species to choose from, every bit as colorful and interesting as the "big guys", but you can keep them for long periods of time in a tank of your size. Do a little research on the WWM site about these fishes, and I'll bet that you change your mind! Good luck! Regards, Scott F> Singapore angel Dear Crew, <Hi there>
I ran across a Chaetodontoplus mesoleucos at a LFS and had some
questions concerning it's compatibility. I have a 37 gallon with an
assortment of SPS, LPS, some softies and a clam. Tank has
been est. for several years. There are 3 fish, a Sunburst
Anthias and 2 yellow clown gobies. I would like to add
a compatible angel and was wondering if a Singapore Angel would do fine
in such a setup. Or want would you suggest? <Not
this fish... it needs more space than your system. Perhaps a
"dwarf dwarf" species like one of the smaller Centropyges if
you had to have an angel. Please see: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/marine/fishes/angels/centropyge/index.htm
Bob Fenner> Thanks much, Doug Flame angel in reef Thanks for the ph meter answer. Turns out my system was 8.4 not 8.8. The meter needed calibration and cleaning. Coralline algae was covering one of the electrode ports. Anyway, all is fine. I have one question though... the xenia in my tank is my pride and joy. However, I've wanted to add a flame angel ever since I've been in this hobby. I've heard mixed opinions on how reef safe they are. <most dwarf angels are a decided risk... some more than others> What are the odds it'll be a problem? A nip or 2 on my xenia or polyps isn't the end of the world, but a total mauling would not be cool. Thanks once again. <hard to say, but easy to test... place small specimens of Xenia with the angel in the QT tank during the 4 week isolation period before adding to the main tank. A month of untouched Xenia in a bare tank is a very good test. Trade or rotate angels until you find a behaved one. Still no long term guarantee, but a good test/trick. Anthony> My Sweet Angel...? What is the fish on the Marine Center logo on your website? It is bright yellow with black around eyes and looks like on the sides but the most remarkable thing is the bright blue lips. I have never seen this fish before it is beautiful. Hadley <I believe the fish that you're referring to is the Conspicillatus Angelfish, Chaetodontoplus conspicillatus. This is one of the most sought-after and beautiful angelfishes. It's not cheap, requires impeccable water conditions, but is an absolute stunner! Good luck if you are lucky enough to acquire this sweet fish! Regards, Scott F.> Chrysurus angelfish Hello, I am thinking about getting a large or extra large chrysurus angelfish from the marine center, and was wondering what would you rate it's hardiness from 1-10. Do you know of any other place I can get one besides the marine center since they cost a pretty penny, although I know they all cost quite a bit. Thanks!!! <Not sure where they would place on a scale of 1-10, but I know they are one of the hardier Angelfish. The link below is to a list of "The Best Angelfishes For Marine Aquarium Use" http://wetwebmedia.com/marine/fishes/angels/bestmarangs.htm Depending upon the tank size and other fish that you have in the tank already it should be ok. I would not put it in anything smaller than 100gal, or with any other large angels. I am not familiar with any suppliers of the chrysurus. Good luck in your search, Gage> Large Angel Fish I am investigating buying a 180 gallon tank and I would like to keep an Asfur Angel, Queen Angel, Naso Tang, and Purple Tang together. Would a 180 gallon tank be sufficient for these fish? <The two Angelfish are not going to be able to cohabitate peacefully. I would leave out the Queen.> Thanks, Tim <You are welcome. -Steven Pro> Marine Angels, small tanks I have another question for you. Thanks again for all the help you provide. I currently have an 80 gal FOWLR tank, with about 85-95 lbs of LR. Would a Pomacanthus annularis and a Centropyge loricula co-exist in this size tank. Or the flame and a coral beauty. Thanks Rich. <Better the two Dwarf Angel species. The Annularis won't fit by itself in this size system for long. Bob Fenner> Marine Livestocking (Lined Wrasses, Angels) Hi guys, <Hello> I'm setting up a small reef tank in a 50G Uniquarium. I'm planning on making it a clownfish habitat minus the anemones. I'll be using leathers or hairy mushrooms as surrogates. My question is around fish compatibility. I'll have 3 ocellaris clowns and one small yellow or purple tang (he will be transplanted to a 125G later). Could I keep a four lined wrasse, a six lined wrasse, and an orchid Dottyback together? I'm using Live rock, a deep sandbed, and skimmer for filtration. Please let me know. <Mmm, not a good idea in this size system to have more than just one of these fishes. The Lined Wrasses don't mix by and large (except in very large systems), and too often Dottybacks and they will fight when crowded as well... I would leave off with all three here if your main desire is to have a peaceful "Clown tank", or if set on one of the three, look for a more easygoing tank-bred Pseudochromid species.> Question #2 - I have some smaller bristleworms in the Fiji rock that I'm not concerned about, however I spotted a larger one the other night- 3-4". Does he need to go, or do I leave him in until I find a reason to remove him? <The latter IMO> On a similar note, I have a hairy crab that came with the rock, and I don't believe he is an emerald. All he seems to do is graze algae. Go or stay? <Hold off on its removal for now as well> Final question, I'm setting up a FOWLR - 125G - 72X18X23. I'm looking for a large angel to serve as the center piece for this system. I'm evaluating scribbled, Map, Asfur, Imperator, and French. Which of these would I be able to keep, and which would grow too large for the system? <All listed could be kept for a while as young (till about six inches or so), the French the longest, but none could, will live to be full-size, age in this size system (need at least twice the gallonage). Look to the Angelfish genera Centropyge, Genicanthus instead> I will most likely set up a 30G refugium in addition to the existing Wet/Dry which I will convert to a plain sump. This should give me ~180G of capacity. <Lots of good ideas here. I encourage you to do a bit more delving, thinking over the stocking mix. Bob Fenner> Thanks, Chris General questions... Looking for rare marine angels, info., dealer Recently I decided that angelfish made a great topic and began to investigate. I am considering a Chaetodontoplus conspicillatus, a Centropyge interrupta, or possibly a Centropyge joculator. However, I have not been able to find much, if any information on these. So far, the most I have found out is that the interrupta is listed under many different names, and commands a 1000$ price tag. Ditto for the conspicillatus. But, how would I go about obtaining one from a reputable dealer? I live in Oklahoma, the people here are idiots. With that being said, any information would be greatly appreciated. Thank you in advance. <Please read through the articles and FAQs on these fishes posted on our site: www.WetWebMedia.com, get your hands on the most recent book by Allen, Allen and Steene on the Pomacanthids, and check out Marine Center as a great source. Bob Fenner> Denise Ward Marine Angelfish I have lost a Navarchus angel due in part to me. I had a friend watching my tank and the PH dropped and was not corrected until my noticing, which was too late. The angel in particular I lost was the Navarchus. However, this fish was eating which to my knowledge (and said on WWM) is the main problem with this particular fish, not water quality. <a common obstacle> Was I lucky to have gotten a healthy eating fish? <not at all... many thousands are imported eating well... just some mishandles ones have imparted this reputation> This specimen I have traced back to being bought from quality marine wholesaler, which to my knowledge sells good quality. < a very fine wholesaler historically> I was wanting to get another angel because I had already purchased a 125gal.tank for this Navarchus when he grew up. In your opinion is quality marine a quality place that can be trusted to send another Navarchus in healthy condition with a healthy appetite? <absolutely. I have used them for the better part of a decade and consulted many stores that have used them even longer with pleasure>> Or should I invest my money in another species? I am also fond of Annularis, Asfur, and Imperator angels also. Thanks for the help. John <the Annularis Angel is far and away the HARDIEST of all mentioned. It is and incredible fish and gets my vote above all. Anthony Calfo> Re: unsure about compatibility Hi Anthony. Thanks for your reply. Unfortunately, you seem to have confirmed what I suspected RE the wrasse. :-( <no worries... admire from afar and keep any of many other beautiful reef fishes> With respect to the same system, I am now considering an Angel as an alternative.... namely the Passer angel, <what a magnificent fish! Very hardy and beautiful. However, this and any full sized angel are not much less aggressive than the lunare wrasse. More importantly, these full sized angels get much too large for your 120 gallon tank. Such fishes easily exceed 12" at maturity> and the French angel. <another beautiful and generally hardy Angel, but Ich prone. Quarantine strictly for 4 full weeks> Am I correct in assuming that these fish would be ok in both types of system.... that is ok with more placid fish ornate fish (like more hardy butterflies etc), <actually quite a problem. They are one of the most dominant fishes on a reef and can be quite intimidating if only by virtue of their size> ok with fish like tangs, and ok with heavy weight fish like the longspine puffer etc....(I have discarded the possibility of wrasse). <actually big tangs, angels, wrasses and puffers can be mixed quite well together... they have similar assertive and sometimes aggressive personalities. It is the butterflies, and smaller reef fishes (clowns, damsels, etc) that need to be left out likely> From what I have read, both species seem to be fairly hardy. I have kept an emperor angel before, quite successfully.... from a 2" juv. to a 7" adult... over a period of nearly 3 years. <outstanding...the Passer and French are even hardier> Unfortunately he was one of the casualties I spoke of last time. So I do have experience with angels, just like a more hardy option this time. Am I correct in assuming that the French is a more hardy species? <not in my/many people's opinion. They like many Atlantic species are especially Ich prone. Passer angels are extremely hardy!> If so, would you rate it as MUCH more hardy ? I am leaning towards the passer at the moment though.... <my preference too... but will still need a much large aquarium after two years. I just saw a nice male Passer nearly 18" long!> I find it to be more attractively coloured, and I am under the impression that they do not get as big as the French, <all are too big for a 120 gallon> thus making it a more suitable choice for my tank. Which do you feel would be the better choice? I have read that French angels are more interesting in terms of behaviour etc and have more character.... would you agree with this statement ? <a very subjective statement... no worries about it. Each fish has a different personality even within a given species.> Finally, just to clarify RE my last email.... I lost all my fish to Whitespot.... caused by a long power failure.... and the person looking after them for me (I was abroad) could not treat them because I had 100 lbs of LR. Thus for future, I want my system such that if a disease arises while I am away, it will be easy to treat. <not at all accurate my friend. The benefits for using live rock far outweigh the risks. In tank you can use hypo salinity, FW Dips, medicated foods> Thanks for reading. Regards Matthew <best regards, Anthony> Angel for a peaceful, small tank Hi, Guys, <whassssup
Marc?> The 45G tank I mentioned some time ago is now up and running.
(Anthony, I promise I'll send a picture of how I put in two VHO
tubes and a pair of 150W MH bulbs in the hood. It isn't as tight as
you might think since it is a corner tank.) <very cool!> Anyway,
I'm in the process of trapping and moving the stock from my big
tank to my little tank. I have a very well behaved flame angel that
will probably make the move. But as you can imagine, the 45G is much
smaller than my 210G and I'm wondering whether I should stick with
smaller fish instead of the flame since it is larger and feisty. (The
flame is well behaved with respect to corals but can chase new fish for
a week.) <they are indeed territorial> So, are there any small
Centropyge species you'd recommend on the order of the C. argi (in
terms of size and body shape)? I've heard that C. argi can be
pretty bossy. <true> I kept a fisheri once and found it
mild tempered but it isn't all that pretty and it picked at my
gorgonians. <yes... a very neat fish!> I have no hard
corals in the tank but do have anemones, mushrooms, Zoanthids and some
other soft corals. The decision (for me) is either stick with the flame
or replace it with a smaller, calmer angel. I'm pretty set on an
angel one way or the other. <please do consider any of the
Genicanthus angels. Although mid-sized...they are extremely
peaceful/passive and about as reef safe as it gets. They run the gamut
from $20 to $2000.00. Most all are great fish!> Thanks for any
opinions on the matter, Marc <kindly, Anthony> Learning the Ropes (steep learning curves, with some folks offering not-so-good info.) Bob, <Anthony Calfo in your service> I just stumbled onto your website and noticed you help a lot of people out with there questions so I thought I'd give it a try. I can't seem to keep any expensive fish alive. <hmmm... sounds like we have the same taste in fish <smile>> I had a rock beauty angel <not a hardy fish by any definition... not to be recommended under any circumstance for beginners. They require very mature tanks (rich algae, plankton, live rock in residence. You were steered wrong from go on this fish> and a flame angel die a month ago to nitrite poisoning. <Hmmmm... if the tank is cycled how is it that you had nitrites? No angels should be kept in new aquaria (less than four months) for certain IMO> They were suffering from what my fish store told me was a bacterial infection. The flame angel was becoming very pale and the rock beauty was developing red and spots and later big white patches. <not categorically bacterial symptoms... need more info> They recommended an antibiotic (Kanacyn I think) <Ughhh! Wow... if bacterial you needed a better BROAD spectrum antibiotic... Kanamycin is very narrow in its scope of efficacy. Very limited usefulness in aquarium husbandry as I understand it> and it killed my BioWheel even though I was assured that it wouldn't. <I certainly do believe it could have/did... I am very dubious of the advice you have been given so far... you may want to seek out other counsel locally... making friends in an aquarium society would be ideal. Do read through articles and archives on this site extensively if you like> The fish never got any better and eventually died due to nitrite poisoning despite daily water changes. <I assume now you mean nitrite poisoning due to the meds killing the bio-filter?> I have a 45 gallon tank with a H.O.T. magnum pro system and an Aqua C remora skimmer with a MaxiJet pump. When the BioWheel recovered (two striped damsels, a blue devil damsel, a lawnmower blenny, and a Blue hippo tang survived the nitrite levels) I added a Coral Beauty Angel. He adjusted fine and became the dominant fish in the tank. I had him for three weeks and on Monday, I noticed tiny white spots all over him and the tang. <am I correct that you do not have a hospital tank and are not quarantining fishes? A QT tank is critical to protect the investment and lives you have in your main tank. All new fish and sick fish if the occasion should arise, should be held in QT for 4 weeks... please read up in archives (especially FAQ's) on this subject. Critical if you are going to stay in the hobby> I pulled out the live rock(10 lbs) and I'm keeping it in a five gallon bucket with the powerhead circulating the water and I added Sea cure immediately. My levels are all at 0 with nitrate at 20 ppm. The Coral Beauty died on Wednesday <all dwarf angels are extremely sensitive to copper... fire whoever suggested you use it> and the Tang is getting worse. <please review an conduct proper freshwater dips (protocol in WWM archives, again> The copper is at .2 mg/l and it doesn't seem to be working. <arguably needs to be .25 to be therapeutic for most fishes that will tolerate it. Also needs to be applied only in a bare-bottomed tank like a quarantine tank (QT). If dosed in systems with sand, shell, gravel or rock... the calcareous substrate absorbs it... very problematic> Is there anything else I can do and how can I keep this from happening again? <QT all new fish and freshwater dip when necessary> I am afraid to buy anything but damsels because that's all I seem to be able to keep. <much to learn my friend... enjoy the journey! Start here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/marine/index.htm> Matt <best regards, Anthony> Large Angel in a Reef Hello again, <Steven Pro in today.> I am toying with the idea of putting a majestic angel in my reef tank (2 clams, soft and hard corals, Featherdusters etc.). What is your experience on their reef-safety? <Have been known to nip at LPS, Xenia, and clams.> Thanks, Massimo <You are welcome. -Steven Pro> Angelfish Bob, I was interested in adding an angelfish to my aquarium but am not sure which one would be the best choice for me. I have a 125 gallon aquarium full of live rock, some mushrooms, and a couple of leather corals. Obviously I would like something that will leave the leather corals alone. The types that I was debating about were the Emperor angel, Koran Angel, and Queen Angel. I want one that is very hardy but peaceful towards other fish and non destructive to my corals. I would appreciate any help you may give me on this. Thanks. Gianluca <Of these three the Koran is the best choice by far... But would encourage you to read over the sections on marine angels on the www.wetwebmedia.com site and reconsider the smaller species of the genera Genicanthus, Centropyge and the smaller Chaetodontoplus instead. Bob Fenner> Angelfish and reefs Hello Mr. Fenner, I love reef tanks and have read a few of your books. I also noticed you had signed the FAMA issue which is posted at Sea Dwelling Creatures and was like wow. Well anyhow, I am starting up a new 75 gallon reef and was wondering what angel fish I can add in a reef if any. And what corals do angel fish not bother if any. thanks srahnama <Ah, the splendours, adoration of a pet-fishing public life! SDC's staff are friends, and the magazine covers I give out to the folks who were nice enough to put up with me when/where I shot the pix (Actually, the "separations" from Sue Steele, Art Editor that are used to print the covers.) (in this case at an industry trade show where this fine wholesaler was exhibiting). About marine angels, as species and specimens there are none that can be trusted one hundred percent not to sample stinging celled life... Depending on the size, type of set-up, livestock mix you have there are ones that are better "gambles" (especially the genera Genicanthus and many Centropyge for you with such a small volume) Take a read, please through the many angelfish files and FAQs posted on the site: www.wetwebmedia.com and you will have your incredulity for my activity bolstered. Bob Fenner> A stocking question Bob, I have been out of the hobby for ten years and have recently had the chance to put a 180 gallon fish and liverock tank in our new office building (actually in the wall between my office and my wife's). <How nice.> Things certainly have changed from the undergravel filter that I had so many years ago. This system has 135 pounds of live rock, a deep sand bed and a EuroReef CS2- skimmer. I have 2 Dolphin 800SST pumps for circulation. Lighting is 3 175 watt halides and 2 160 watt VHO. <Yes, the hobby has become much more sophisticated... and better> The tank has been up for a while now and I am adding fish. Water quality is excellent across the board. I have added the following fish in this order: 2 true Percula clowns 4 Firefish 2 royal Gramma 2 neon gobies 1 Randall's shrimp goby and shrimp 1 cleaner shrimp 9 green Chromis 1 Red Sea Raccoon Butterfly 1 Red Sea Auriga Butterfly 1 Coral Beauty 1 Bicolor Angel 1 Potter's Angel 1 Midas Blenny 1 Orchid Dottyback 1 Scott's Fairy Wrasse This seems like a lot when I list it, but the tank does not appear to be "full" so to speak. The Centropyge angels were added together and appear to be staking out claims to the best hiding places, but there is no sign of aggression. <Good... a large enough, nook and cranniness enough setting hopefully> A fellow aquarist is going to give me a Kole tang, and I would like to add a purple tang as well. I would also like to add a juvenile Red Sea imperator angel, a small Red Sea regal angel and a semilarvatus butterfly. I also am dying to add a flame angel. <Hmm, going to be getting a bit psychologically crowded...> Am I nuts? I want to have an active aquarium, but I obviously do not want to stress the fish or create a hostile environment. The stocking levels these days seem to be substantially smaller than ten years ago, but my neon gobies and Ocellaris clowns spawned in that 55 gallon with the undergravel filter. In short, how do I balance the joy of rediscovering the hobby with some limits on the fish load. Thanks. Matt Davis, Seattle [by the way, I have not read your book yet because it has been on back order] <Thanks for this latter bit... CMA is scheduled (according to James Lawrence, Editor/Owner of Microcosm, the publisher) for reprinting this month... And no to being "nuts"... this "overstocking" tendency is a universal condition, timeless. I would halt at the Pygoplites/Regal... or take out most all the Centropyge (good luck) if/when you have occasion to drain, remove the rock... Otherwise, the last additions will about top off the space practically available in your 180... Maybe time to start scouting around home for an even larger set-up... Bob Fenner> Livestock Selection Hello, just wanted to give you an update on my 4 eye butterfly that had a viral infection. The white clumps got so big around his gills that he had to take short quick breaths. He died about a day later. Thank God I didn't spend a lot for him. <Sorry to hear of the animals demise> Anyway the other 2 butterflies in my main system are doing well as are all my other fish. I am going to buy a metal halide retro to boost my lighting (I only have 40 watts on a 24 inch tank now) I plan to get a 250 or 400 watt unit. <Not the 400...> I also plan to get a canister or fluidized bed filter to go in-between the powerhead for my UV sterilizer and the sterilizer itself. Once I get all of this equipment and install it I plan to get another fish. I have a 55 gallon and I have a flame angel, a royal gamma, 2 true Percula clowns, an "algae" blenny (I don't think that is its official name) <Likely Salarias spp.> , and two four eye butterflies which I don't think will make it that long because I am told they are very difficult to feed and not hardy. (I have been feeding them black worm, they won't take any kind of frozen or flake food) I would like to get a juvenile or very small adult large angelfish. I would eventually get a bigger tank for it. I like the Queen, Half Moon, Emperor, and French Angels. Which one would you suggest? Thank You, Jonathan Pac <The French, but only when you have the larger tank in place... Please do read over the livestock selection pieces, FAQs and survey works on these organisms, placed on the www.wetwebmedia.com site. You can save some money and lives here. Bob Fenner> New Marine Tank Hi Bob. I love your website and articles. Just last week I set up a 110 (48" x 18" x 30")saltwater tank. It's going to be all fish (as opposed to having any invertebrates). I'm running an Emperor 400 Biological Filter (bio-beads and charcoal) and a Skilter 400 protein skimmer with 2 separate powerheads just for excellent water circulation. I'll be keeping the PH around the standard 8.2, with salinity at about 1.021 to lower parasite risk, and water temperature at a constant 77 degrees with 25% of the water and filter media being changed monthly as directed. There is no undergravel filter in the tank. Substrate is crushed coral, and I have some very nice coral skeletons and pieces of lava rock for decoration. But the tank is far from cluttered and there is plenty of swimming room so the fish can constantly be on display. The tank will be well-lit for about 16 hours per day on average, and I'm already planning on letting green algae grow abundantly in the tank. Fish will be fed 3 times per day. I'm 29 years old and have had aquariums since I was 7 years old. I've had several saltwater tanks in the past, but only with very limited success (fishes live a few months and die). Right now in my 110 gallon I only have 3 Domino Damsels to help start the water cycle. Ultimately I'd like to put the following species in my 110 gallon tank (tank holds almost exactly 100 gallons after displacement by substrate and decorations): -1 large (7-8") Emperor Angelfish (Pomacanthus imperator) -1 large (7-8") Majestic Angelfish (Euxiphipops navarchus) -2 large Butterflyfish (5-6", not sure which kind, but they'll be a pair and I'm thinking maybe they'll be Chaetodon semilarvatus - Red Sea Addis Butterflyfish) -1 large surgeonfish (6", either Acanthurus lineatus - Clown Tang - or maybe Acanthurus Sohal Red Sea Clown Tang). I'd also love to put a Blue Ring Angel (Pomacanthus annularis) or Koran Angel (Pomacanthus semicirculatus) in the tank. But I'm debating on whether to do this unless I go with a smaller (perhaps 3-4") specimen still in juvenile coloration. And that's it. I figure with the somewhat slightly belligerent dispositions of the angelfish and tangs I'm interested in (and given the sizes of the various fishes I want to put in the tank), I'd better only keep at most 5 or 6 fish in this aquarium. My questions are as follows: 1. What do you think of the chances of this setup succeeding from a community standpoint (i.e., how will the fish get along)? I mean, I know it's a risk having 2 big Pomacanthids in the same tank, but I've seen it done before by others and the fishes get along great. Do you think they'll fight? Also, don't I stand a better chance of success if I put them in the tank at the same time and only go with 1 large Pomacanthid and one smaller one in juvenile form? <Hmm, if it were me, I'd settle on one larger Pacific Angelfish species... and not the Navarchus... they're almost always poor survivors... If you really want another Angel species... a dwarf (one of the hardier Centropyges) would be my choice... Two of the larger species... would tussle as they got bigger in your 110... and it's not enough space for two to do well. If you are still going ahead... do as you suggest, and make sure one of them is considerably smaller, sub-dominant> 2. What are some of the foods I should use to keep the Angels in prime health? Apart from the natural algae growth, I have all the standard flake, frozen brine shrimp, frozen bloodworms, and frozen marine cuisine (combined clams, krill, mussel, algae, etc.), and will feed them Romaine lettuce as well. I keep hearing about Angelfish formulas and iodine and stuff - what are these foods, and where can I buy them? <All these but the romaine lettuce are good choices... as are making your own, or just using the ingredients to the same from the oriental food store... As well as mixing in some live rock... even though you intend this as a fish-only system> 3. How long should I wait until I put these expensive fishes in my tank? I'm told it normally takes the water about 5-6 weeks to "cycle", but I've also heard that Angels don't do well in tanks with newer setups because the water is still relatively "unstable." What are your thoughts here? <The longer the better... about three months ideally> 4. Is it OK to treat the entire tank with copper solutions should the fish get ick, Oodinium, or gill flukes? Can I treat the tank even BEFORE I put the expensive fish in? I don't want to kill the good biological bacteria in my filters with too much copper solution. I don't have a separate quarantine tank. <If it were me, I'd adopt/adapt a dip/quarantine protocol for your use... You can take a long look through the materials placed on our site: Home Page re this... And NOT get involved with routine copper use... especially in your main/display system... many downsides to this approach (copper, particularly in other than hospital settings)... and should be unnecessary with good livestock selection, dipping, quarantine... trust me> I guess that's it for now. I'd greatly appreciate it if you could answer all of my questions when you have some extra time. Thanks, and keep up the great work! Best regards, Scotty Knight >> <And thank you, my friend in fish. Bob Fenner> Would a 5 inch passer angelfish be compatible with a 5 inch Goldflake angelfish in a 135 gallon aquarium? The passer is not very aggressive. Thanks. >> I give you very good odds that these two will get along together fine. Not only are these two marine Angelfishes of dissimilar genera (Apolemichthys and Holacanthus respectively), they are good candidates on the basis of generally easy-going natures. Should be no problem. Bob Fenner We were curious what type Angel fish we could have in our 300 gallon reef tank? Thanks - Nicole >> Wowzah... out of more than 80 species, more than half of them? Looking for something large (like a foot, one and a half times that?) Some of my faves are the Koran, Imperator, Maculosus, Asfur, Queen... Mid-size? All the Genicanthus genus Angels, the Three Spot... Small ones of the genus Centropyge? The Flame, Eibl's, Vroliki... Take a look at the many survey pieces on the family Pomacanthidae I have stored at the site: www.wetwebmedia.com for much more. Bob Fenner Saltwater fish only I have a 75 gal fish only with 4 fish a red Volitans lion a yellow tang a Sailfin tang and a lunare wrasse> I have been thinking of adding an angel. The imperator or queen or Koran or African rock or something with some blue in the color. Any suggestions or recommendations. Also have thought about a purple tang. Will these work? Thanks, Mark >> I would limit your additions of fishes to just one more... And of the angels listed the easy choice for me is the Koran (Pomacanthus semicirculatus)... for hardiness, beauty, easy-going behavior, and growing slower, staying smaller than the others. Bob Fenner Hi Bob, I have a 75-gallon FOWLR tank. It contains a yellow tang, a blue damsel, a six-line wrasse, a maroon clownfish and a pair of Firefish. I am wondering whether it is possible to introduce a juvenile angelfish of the various medium-to-large size varieties. If it is possible, which one do you recommend? Also, what is their growth rate? Are they fast or hopefully, slow growers? There are so many beautiful fish out there. I want every one of them. I know it is not possible. I am just trying to narrow down my choices. Thank you in advance. Boon >> <Now you see why I go diving/traveling so much... I want to see, enjoy them all too... You might be able to keep a medium-large Angel species for a while with your mix (maybe with the exception of the Firefish which would be terrorized>, but I would encourage you to get a "regular" size Dwarf Angel Species instead... You might make do with one of the tougher Genicanthus species... but I would look at the entire Centropyge genus... you can read over them as a group on my site: www.wetwebmedia.com... and maybe get me to post a bunch of images of the ones you're most interested in. A larger, Pomacanthus, Apolemichthys, Chaetodontoplus Angel would be psychologically stifled in your 75 within a half year or so... The growth range is somewhere about a half to an inch per month... started small... depending on species, conditions, foods/feeding... Bob Fenner Dear Mr. Fenner, This is Bhaskar from Alaska again. Before I ask you a question I want to thank you for getting back to me. I would like to tell you that although I am no where as knowledgeable as you are in fish keeping I am just as crazy about fish. I started with a 20 Gal tank ten years ago and now I have a 240, 270, 125 and 60. But most importantly fish have guided my life. I got a bachelors in chemistry because I wanted to understand about the water, I got a masters in Environmental Engineering because I wanted to treat the water and I will be finishing my second masters in Mechanical engineering this may and I took on this because I wanted to make the filters and understand the technical aspects of the hobby. I read everything I can get my hand on. But as you know there is no substitute for experience. Now my question. I have fallen in love with large angels. The three tanks at my disposal are 240, 270 and 125. I want to keep an emperor, a queen, a half moon, a majestic, a blue face and an annularis. In your opinion what is the best way to divide these fish up in the three tanks and can this be done? I have spent sleepless nights thinking about this and your advise will be appreciated ten fold. P.S. If you ever take a trip to Alaska please look me up, I would love to show you around and pick your brains about aquariums. >> Thank you for writing. Your enthusiasm for life and the hobby are evident, and infectious. You could have all these large angels in your systems... for some time and all things else being equal, they would be happy and healthy up to a certain size/age... after which, it really would be better (let's say in a year or so) to only have one large angel per system... But, nonetheless, as I say, it can be done. IMO, the Emperor I would only place with the Half Moon... these fishes ranges overlap, and both can become co-dominant... I would place them in the largest system. The Majestic (aka Navarchus) and Blue Face you can place with any of the other species, but not with each other... these are members of the same sub-genus (Euxiphipops) that don't mix well together. The Queen (Holacanthus ciliaris) is the "odd fish out" coming from the Atlantic... and should be placed in the second largest system with any of the other Indo-Pacific Angels... Bob Fenner, whose Angel articles are stored at www.wetwebmedia.com and who has not been to Alaska, but was diving yesterday (in Maui) with some people from Juneau. Hello. I was wondering if it would ok to combine a dwarf angel with an emperor angel. I was thinking of adding a bicolor angel or a potters angel and I was wondering if these would be compatible. The emperor angel is about 7 or 8 inches and generally gets along with all the other fish in the tank (clown trigger, bird wrasse, purple tang and clown fish). Thanks for you help, Heather Mann >> Well, a few of the Dwarf Angel species might make a go of it... but I definitely would not try the Hawaiian endemic Potter's... too shy... The Bicolor might be a good try... but make sure and specify you want one from Fiji (the best source for this species currently)... Other possible "best Centropyge species to try" would be the tibicens, vroliki, and Eiblii... Look into them... I suspect that this IS a large system,,,, with lots of live rock... other cover... and that the specimens for their species are NOT very aggressive (hence your Clownfishes are alive...) Bob Fenner When I typed up the list of fish I would like to have I didn't mean to still have the bi-color angel and the coral beauty in there. I have just been writing those list for so long I forgot I wouldn't want them any more. I have been studying the angel section of your book and would like to ask just a few more questions (again) Its is really hard not to take advantage of someone this knowledgeable (you!) Anyway, if you remember I would like to have a trigger and 2 tangs, but if I drop the Wimplefish (don't want more than one) would I be able to add either the Half-moon angel or the Passer? If you had to choose between the two which would you choose and why. I really like the blue color. Sorry for such long posts. Thanks again. Michelle >> The Passer would be better, as it is more outgoing, hardier and less likely to put up with any guff from the trigger. These posts are not too long... Bob Fenner Angel combo Bob, can you tell which Angel would be a better match for a juvenile(3") Imperator and can they be about the same size? Queen or French Angel thanks, love your column Pete Collazo >> Well, though there is a wide variability in behavior/tolerance amongst species of these marine angelfishes, I'd give hands down preference to the French (Pomacanthus paru) over the Queen (Holacanthus ciliaris)... more on the "rule of thumb" of dissimilar appearances between the two, than the more-laid back personas of the French's (over the Queens). Both are excellent fish only show livestock animals from the tropical west Atlantic... Bob Fenner Hi Bob, Could I put a majestic, emperor, and blue girdled angels in the same 250 gal tank? >> I'd give you good odds that these three would learn to get along in such a large system. Do start them at the same time, within ideal size ranges (3-4 inches) and provide plenty of live rock hiding spaces... Maybe take a look at the semi-exhaustive notes on these marine Angelfish species I have posted under the wetwebmedia.com site. The first and last species are under their subgeneric title Euxiphipops. Follow the clues in these articles to help pick out initially healthy specimens. Bob Fenner Hello, I have a 50 gal aquarium with a snowflake Eel, a Porcupine puffer fish, and four blue damsels. I've been thinking about getting a "stunning" addition to my tank. I have been looking at angelfish but it sounds like they are really picky about water quality and I've been told that my puffer fish can release a toxin into the water. Not to mention the fact that the puffer and the eel are both messy eaters. I do have pretty good filtration, I have a penguin BioWheel 330. And a SeaStorm protein skimmer. Anyway can you recommend a beautiful fish that can tolerate such messy tank mates (not to mention semi-aggressive tank mates). Also, I've been thinking about getting an anemone can you recommend a good "starter" anemone? Thanks for the advice. Steve Weatherly >> Steve, don't be dissuaded from getting that stunning marine Angel, there are many mid-size to dwarf species to choose from that are neither picky about water quality, nor likely to bug your puffer. Please take a long look at my article detailing all of the species of the family and their suitability on the wetwebmedia.com site. There are a few other families with real winner show species, but I would go with your first choice. Look through the images on ffexpress.com for all the Angels they carry as well. I would hold off on the anemone at this point, though. These are not easy to keep period, and your puffer might well eat it, or your eel get stung by it... Good luck, Bob Fenner Question: Sounds like a stupid question but my friend told me I can and a Blueface angel to my 55 with a queen. Is this true??? I have a lot of rock work. Bob's Answer: Chris, I wouldn't risk it. Given size, temperaments... not a good risk. Question: What angelfish can be suitable for a reef tank? I am talking a tank with SPS, LPS, and Tridacna clams. I would like to add some diversity to my reef tank and was hoping there was an angel that might do that. Bob's Answer: Hey Ian! I've got to admit, I've
seen more than half of the described (88 and counting) species of
angels used in reef tanks around the world; including the largest and
most notoriously destructive. This being said, if it were me, I'd
shy strongly on the side of "going with the smallest" first
and foremost. The diminutive dwarf "dwarf angels" of the
genus Centropyge attract me most, C. aurantonotus, C. resplendens, C.
acanthops, C. colini, C. fisheri... and for a little larger size, or
course, the fabulous C. loricula, the Flame Angel. A specimen from HI
if you can find/afford it. But other species/individuals can be "tried". All must
have their dietary and psychological needs met (don't laugh you
browsers), and most importantly KEPT YOUR EYE ON for excessive nibbling
on your pet cnidarians. If they're hungry or curious enough, yes,
all angels will "sample" to a degree.
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