MarAngSysFAQs

FAQs about Marine Angelfish Systems

Large angel species need systems of hundreds of gallons to prosper.

Angelfishes for Marine Aquariums
Diversity, Selection & Care
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by Robert (Bob) Fenner

Game Plan for New Tank, SW set up, stkg. 6/18/2013
Hi Crew -
<Sean>
I moved last year, so I'm looking to set up a new 100g FOWLR in my new office at work and have a service do the maintenance. I travel occasionally, and I'm not in the office over the weekend, so I need a low maintenance system with relatively hardy fish that will be fine with only Spectrum pellets fed by timer when I'm out of the office. I was hoping you could take a quick look at my plan and let me know if you'd recommend any adjustments before I move forward...
<Sure>
System: Red Sea Max S-Series 400 (42" long, 97g excluding the overflow area and sump, 110g total). It comes with 390W of T5 lighting, a C-Skim 1800 skimmer, carbon filtration and 2100gph of total circulation. There's no cover to the tank, so there should be good oxygen levels with the skimmer (though I need to avoid jumping fish). I plan to add an auto waste container to the skimmer so that it doesn't overflow between maintenance periods. I also plan to add an additional auto water top off to refill the included one if it gets low. The system only comes with one return pump, so I'll get a spare. In the hopefully unlikely event that the main pump goes out when I'm out of the office, there are other circulation pumps in the main display, so the tank will likely survive until I'm back in the office to replace the main pump. The office building is in a major city and unlikely to lose power for long (it has a backup generator), so I'm less concerned about a long term power outage. I'll use two feed timers both feeding small amounts so that it's likely that even if one dies, the other will at least provide some food. Any other recommendations for my setup?
<Not so far. It appears you've done a good bit of studying>
Stocking: In planned order of introduction... 3 Green Chromis, 2 False Percula Clowns (to be obtained as a pair), 3 Latticed B/Fs, 3 Angels (Watanabei, Bicolor, Flame),
<Mmm, I'd cut this back to one butterfly specimen and just the Genicanthus, or the two Centropyge for this size, shape system. Too likely to not get along otherwise>
1 Kole and 1 Orangetail Blue Damsel. I also plan to have some shrimp (2 Skunk, 2 Fire and 4 Peppermint) and possibly a few turbo snails (if needed). I've successfully kept all of these fish together before, along with other similar fish, but that was in a larger tank, so this feels a little tight and I thought I'd better get a second opinion. Do you think all these fish would work in the planned setup? If not, what adjustments would you recommend?
<As stated. Cheers, Bob Fenner>
Sean
Re: Game Plan for New Tank 6/19/2013
Bob -- Thank you so much for the quick reply. I was afraid this setup would be too snug. Rather than cut back on the Butterflies and Angels (my favorites), I'd be more inclined to go with a bigger tank. While the S400 (42", 97g) would fit best in the office, I could make the S500 (51", 119g) work. Do you think the 3 Butterflies and 3 Angels would get along in the
S500?
<Mmm, no. I wouldn't try to squeeze these fishes in this slightly larger size, shape>
If a little extra elbow room would help, I could skip the Kole.
Unfortunately, 51" is as big as I can fit.
Thanks again!
Sean
<Just not a good bet, a wager on such mixes... Too likely to have problems... and when? Of course, when you're not about. Cheers, BobF>
Re: Game Plan for New Tank 6/19/2013
Understood. I'll scale back my fish plans accordingly. It's hard adapting to smaller tanks after having a 220g tank for so long. Thanks for the advice!
<Glad to share. BobF>
Re: Game Plan for New Tank, now a 50 g, stkg., FOWLR 6/19/2013
Hi, Bob -- In scaling back, I have one other option to consider. I have an option to pick up a nice 50g (36x18x18) tank, stand, canopy and T5 lighting from a neighbor who's upgrading to a bigger reef system. It doesn't have a sump, but it has a Remora hang-on skimmer with filter box and collection cup drain. I originally thought "no," because I wanted multiple Butterflies and Angels. But since that isn't possible, I thought I would reconsider. Most of the guidelines I see for the smaller B/Fs suggest 50g minimum. Would you agree?
<Only for temporary, small specimens... Chaetodontids really suffer for the stress of small captive confines. IMO their losses here are only second to collection, handling damage as a source of mortality in our care>
If so, I'd scale back my stocking to the following: Latticed B/F, Flame Angel, False Percula Clown Pair, Orangetail Blue Damsel, Mystery Wrasse and Royal Gramma. Any changes you'd recommend to this line-up or setup?
<Yes; I'd drop the BF and the Loricula... only go w/ a dwarf dwarf Centropyge sp. Read here re:
Oh! The article was pulled pending pulp publishing... go through the Related FAQs instead: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/dwfdwfangels.htm
I'd still need to add automated feeders and an auto-water top off, but those are minor tweaks. Many thanks for your help!
<Happy to assist. B>
Re: Game Plan for New Tank 6/19/2013
Sounds like I'll have to pass on the 50g deal... I just can't give up my B/F! I'll stick with my plan for the S400 with 1 B/F and 2 Dwarf Angels.
Thanks again!
<Ah welcome. BobF, who would buy, get, use both systems!>

Hey everyone.... Passer Angel sel., sys. 2/26/10
<Hello Jason>
I wanted to get a few opinions on the Passer Angel.
<A quite wonderful fish, and hardy as well>
My local pet store has a 4" Passer and I am really interested. I have done thorough research and I see that they are rather aggressive.
<Yes, they can be>
How aggressive and to what other Angel could they be compared?
<Mmm, maybe a Queen although this fish gets much larger>
I have a 100g FOWLR setup with just Butterflies and a Tang. Will this be a suitable home for him temporarily or is he going to destroy my Butterflies?
<No, I'm sorry to say Jason that your tank is far too small for this fish.
It does grow smaller than some of the larger Angels (to about 14 inches max, and less in captivity) but you still need a tank more than twice the size of the one you have now. Read here:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/PasserAngF.htm>
I have a Raccoon, Heniochus and a Yellow Tang (all at 3" or below). The research states they need large quarters and that they are very aggressive but do you think this could work since my tank is lightly stocked?
<No I don't>
If not, which other angels could you recommend for a 100g in the larger genus (not pygmy/Centropyge).
<None of the Pomacanthus or Holacanthus genus will work here. You might find one of the smaller Genicanthus, Chaetodontoplus or Apolemichthys species that grow to a max of about 6 inches in the wild. Perhaps something
like a Chaetodontoplus mesoleucus, or an Apolemichthys xanthotis, but these fishes really do better in reef set ups. Read here:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/marine/fishes/angels/apolemichthys/index.htm
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/marine/fishes/angels/chaetodonoplus/index.htm
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/marine/fishes/angels/genicanthus/>.
Thanks a lot
<No problem, Simon>
26/02/10 Hey everyone....trying to shoehorn large Angels into small tanks... Passer, Pomacanthid sel. f'
<Jason>
Based on what I read within the links you gave, it pretty much states what these fish "should" be housed in.
<Yes>
Basically I was asking if it was possible to house this fish in my 100g and after reading I see that it is.
<Yes. It is also 'possible' to keep an Alsatian in your garage its whole life, but you can pretty much guarantee that it won't be happy or healthy>.
I see your trying to give this animal the largest living space possible
<No, for this I would recommend 500 gallons+, and I believe I stated that you need at a minimum more than double what you have. I would say 250 gallons>.
but based on what I read it can still live in the quarters I have.
<It can stay alive for a while, yes, but it will have a shortened lifespan for sure. Large angels like this can live 30 years. That is what you are taking on with this fish, but it won't go anywhere near that long in your tank. Had you really spent some time 'reading' you would know this. The fish if crowded will be stunted in growth. This is cruel, and you will be guilty of cruelty, especially if you have been warned, which you have.>
Kinda like having a bird in a cage and/or around your house, yes it's used to much larger quarters but it does just fine in the not-so-large quarters it's in (considering you provide a good home, nutrition and exercise).
<This depends on the bird. Obviously a canary would be ok. Do you think an Eagle would be ok in your living room? No, this fish will not 'do fine' it will be stunted. With a large head and small body. And it will die young. Does this sound 'fine' to you? Have you ever seen large angels that have been kept in small tanks like this for several years? With HLLE and deformed spines? No, you obviously have not but I have and I can tell you it is not a pretty sight. Is that what you want in your living room?>
From what I know through my experience, unless severely constricted, most animals will learn to adapt (I am less knowledgeable about fish though lol).
<This IS severely constricted, and no animal can 'adapt' to a smaller body.>
I could see if I was putting a 17" angel in a 55g tank but this is a 100g.
<? You are under the impression that 100 gallons is a large tank. It is not, it is a medium-small tank, and for an animal like this it is tiny, in fact putting an Angelfish like this in a 100 gallon tank is, to be perfectly honest, ludicrous.>
But after all this I see now that the size of it's home is more based on it's temperament rather than overall size.
<No, it is not, you have this backwards. Where have you been reading/ who told you this? The size of it's home is based on its maximum size, and it's nature. These fishes need space to grow, and to roam. It's temperament determines what fish you place with it. Totally different, you do not understand the fishes needs at all. You need to go back to the drawing board here Jason>.
I guess I just wanted to know what type of personal experience you had with this species regarding it's aggression.
<I have never kept this fish personally, but I have seen it in aquariums, and I have kept similar species (Holacanthus). This is an aggressive fish, but that is not the issue. You have been warned, Jason, and I leave it to you and your conscience about what you decide to do>
I'll just do some more research.

Thanks anyway Simon
<No problem>

Angelfish in large aquarium... comp. 8/9/08 Hey "Crew". Thanks for all your hard work! <Grant> I've got a 210 gallon tank I'm currently slowly stocking, it has about 150 pounds of live rock. Pair of Semilarvatus B/F, Checkerboard wrasse and a Purple tang are the current inhabitants. I want to add a Naso tang, and then hopefully TWO angels. The angels in question are the Emperor and the Queen angel. <Mmmm> I know mixing angels isn't necessarily recommended, but with the current stocking plan and plenty of swimming space, do you think these two angels would be able to co-exist? <Ultimately... not happily likely> The Emperor is going to be about 3", still a juvenile and then Queen would be a 5-6 inch adult. For what it's worth, all inhabitants are quarantined and both angels would be added at the same time to the display tank, although quarantined in separate tanks. Grant <Oddly enough, were this tank a bit larger... hundreds more gallons, you could "crowd" more large Pomacanthids in with little concern... but... too likely to be territorial issues here in a 210. Bob Fenner>

Single specimen tank, Angels 7/24/08 Hey Crew I am planning a setup for a single angelfish. In your article you have mentioned "I wonder why folks throw their money away on Euxiphipops species. Maybe most just don't know their poor track record, perhaps they're out for the challenge. Well, at least you have my ideas on optimizing your chances with them." That ensures that I will for sure stay away from this species. <Actually three species in this subgenus> Can you recommend a tank size that can keep an angelfish happy and healthy for life, while still contained in a home aquarium. <... Mmmm, yes... depends on which species of Pomacanthid...> I was settling in on perhaps the French or passer angelfish. <A system of about 300 gallons on the low side for either...> Would these species be a wise choice for a single specimen tank? <Could be... though I'd find either much more interesting in a biotopic presentation... with topography, other life that is found thereabouts...> I was interested to know if any species would perhaps have another fish for company. All help is appreciated! <Sure... all species are not found in biological vacuums... Please read here: http://wetwebmedia.com/biotope.htm and the linked FAQs file at top. Bob Fenner>

Choosing A Large Marine Angel…Some Need Really Large Quarters - 06/06/08 I have a salt water aquarium that is 72" long, 20" high and 30" wide, about 187gallons. The aquarium presently houses a marine Betta, dwarf fuzzy lion and flame hawk. I am going to add an Australian harlequin tusk wrasse and a juvenile angel, either French or Yellow Map, in early July of this year. <> My question: what suggestion do you have as to the number of other fish that I could add to the aquarium and what fish would you suggest. Or do you think that I should leave it as is. <> Thank you, Dennis <<Happy to assist. EricR>>

Large angelfishes in 170 gallon tanks 8/19/07 Dear Bob and friends, <Hey there> Thank you for all your previous answers to my questions. I spent so much time reading through. I have two tanks and they are both 170 gallons. I only want to keep two large angelfish in one tank and 7 green Chromis and 2 clownfish in each tank. My question is can I mix one Pomacanthus Asfur with one Pomacanthus Imperator in one 170 gallon tank with 7 Chromis and 2 clownfish. The other 170 gallon tank with one P. Maculosus and a Scribbled Angelfish (Chaetodontoplus duboulayi). There will be no other fishes. I really love to keep only large angelfishes. Thank you and I would really appreciate your answer. It would be so helpful for me. Thank you again. <Mmm, I would not do this... Some folks, companies have very good success actually crowding Pomacanthids (et al. families) together in greater numbers in large marine systems... but in this case... One's company, two's an untenable crowd... I would just go with one large Angel species in such a size tank... and the Red Sea Angels, larger tanks at that. Bob Fenner>

Angel fish problems ... systems, comp. - 03/12/2006 Dear WWM Crew, I'm having problems with my reef tank and would greatly appreciate your experience and guidance. By way of background I have an Aqua One AR-850 (about 50 gal), which I set up 11 months ago. Unfortunately, I didn't discover your site until after I purchased my tank and equipment. The tank has 3 filters: (1) Built-in AR-850 top filter with sponges, porcelain tubes and wool. (2) Aqua One CF-1200 canister filter with: a. Level 1/top - bio balls; b. Level 2/middle - Porcelain tubes; and c. Level 3/bottom - 2 sponges. <These last I would likely remove> (3) Small submerged UV filter with built in air pump. I have a reasonable quantity of live rock and corals, large anemone, large clam, etc. Until yesterday, the resident fish were: * 2 Ocellaris Clownfish; * 1 Royal Dottyback; * 1 Yellow Tang; * 2 dwarf Angelfish (Coral Beauty and Singapore Angel); and <... inappropriate for this size system> * 1 Pacific Blue Tang. <Ditto ultimately> The fish entered the tank in the order shown above, with the Blue Tang entering last, about 3 weeks ago - it's doing well. The 2 Angelfish went into the tank in December (received as a gift). Although possibly not that suitable for a reef tank, both angelfish had settled in and appeared to be doing well. <Not for long...> Yesterday, I noticed the Coral Beauty was missing and the Singapore Angel (normally an active grazer) was hiding away - it had a very pinched stomach but otherwise looked healthy and didn't appear to be gasping. The Singapore Angel passed away today. <...> I have tested ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, phosphate and KH. All appear fine, except the nitrate is high (40mg/litre), <Yes> although it has always tested at that level since the tank stabilized and the algae/invertebrate don't appear to be affected - also, I understand nitrate kits tend to give exaggerated readings. <Not likely... and you want to reduce this> I normally do a 15 to 20% water change each fortnight. The past few months, I have been collecting water from the ocean (which is possible a bit polluted - I don't know). I assumed it was better for the fish that prepared water. I'm at a loss as to why both Angels died so abruptly when they seemed to be doing so well. Perhaps my tank and filter set up is not good enough for angel fish - what do you think? <Not "the right" environment for these Pomacanthids... and not together> Also, I am concerned that the other fish might start to die and I would like to feel I have done everything I could to prevent that from happening. Your thoughts/comments would be greatly appreciated. Kind regards, Cameron <Mmm, what to say? Where to start? Do read re Nitrates on WWM, remove those sponges... consider other means of improving water quality... and please read re Quarantine, the Systems, Compatibility of future purchases ahead of their acquisition. Bob Fenner>

Water temperature for my FOWLR angelfish tank Good Afternoon, I have a 125 gal FOWLR tank. 1 5 inch Imperator & 1 7 inch Blue Faced Angel. I just added a 36 watt UV on the tank with a pump for it in my wet/dry. The temperature of my water is 83 degrees. Do I need a chiller? I was told that Angels like warmer water, but will that do harm long term??? <Should be fine... will slightly shorten life spans, could cause trouble in terms of gas solubility... in the event of power outage, overfeeding, die-off... Bob Fenner>

Angel & Tang Problems Fri, 4 Feb 2005 Hi, and I hope this gets through. I have never known of sites were I can get help for my lil fish's. so I can only pray this works since I am a novice at computers also! here's my questions of help.. 1) I have a 75 gallon tank with an emperor angel, a blue tang, a queen angel, 2 small clowns and a yellow tang,<Problem #1, too small a tank for these types of fish.> My emperor has his flesh gone from his gills, to the tip of his nose, the blue tang has discoloration on his nose, the queen has bad looking scales, the yellow tang has total discoloration, its faded light yellow. I feed them life line everyday and they eat like lil piggies. they have been in this state for at least a year now. I have tried local solutions with no avail, like ecosystem fish solution. I am moving ahead anyway and venturing into a 125 gallon tank!!! I am torn between starting over with new fish or trying with much patience to bring these fish back. Will the emperor be scared forever? other than that my fish look great!!!!!! <Thomas, your situation is saddening. Like so many other newbies, you can't resist the looks of these angels, tangs, etc, and purchase them without knowing their requirements for survival in a closed system. These fish require plenty of room, excellent water quality and good nutrition in a variety of forms. Even moving them to a 125, even though it will help the situation, is not a big enough tank as most of the angels in this family can grow in excess of twelve inches in length.> 2) With my move to a 125 gallon tank I have a large sump with a pump that I am not exactly sure is big enough to handle the tank. What size pump do I need? Gallons per hour is what I am looking for, I guess.<You will need a 1000-1200 gph pump and may require additional circulation by means of powerheads.> I also have a protein skimmer back pack that came with the set up. I am not sure how to tell you what make or size it is but what will I need for a 125 gal tank? I see a lot of different diets for angels and tangs, I am a bit confused by it all. Can you break it down for me in a 1-2-3 matter of fact? <The Ocean Nutrition Angel Food would be a good place to start as it contains the types of food they require. They also require some algae in their diet. Most supermarkets carry "Sushi Nori" which is a freeze dried form of algae that they seem to take to and is very nutritious.> I am really slow at catching on as you can tell by my fish so all the e-z, how to you can send my way would be extremely appreciated. Any other tips on starting a 125 gal would be a bonus!! If this does get through, thank you very very much for any help you can send my way. <Thomas, it sure sounds like you got off on the wrong foot. My suggestion to you would be to purchase a book like Bob Fenner's Conscientious Marine Aquarist or one similar, and read it from cover to cover. You need to have an understanding of what your getting into. The angels are definitely for aquarists in the advanced stage. Even though you have kept them for some time, the health of these angels is in poor shape. You mentioned the ecosystem. This type of filter is excellent for angels if it is set up properly, which includes the use of their miracle mud, Caulerpa (macro algae) and power compact lighting 20-22 hours over the filter. It has been known to reverse the dreaded lateral line disease. I wish you luck my friend, but you need to get yourself more educated in the fish you buy before plucking down your hard earned money. The Wet Web Media FAQ site has endless information on most anything you want to know. www.wetwebmedia.com. Definitely get those fish into that 125, and the Bak Pak you mentioned is not enough for the 125. Getting an additional one will probably be enough skimmer for you. James (Salty Dog)> Thomas Duffey trying hard with lil hope

How Much Room Does a Queen Need? (4/23/04) I really need some help on the possibility of owning a queen angel. I am setting up a 125G FOWLR, and would love to add a queen angel. Everything I have read says they should be in a 180G tank, <Absolute minimum. Frankly, it ought to be in an even bigger tank.> but the dimensions are so similar, how much difference does it really make? A 180G is only 2" taller and 4" deeper (front to back). <Front-to-back does matter! A 17" fish won't much enjoy trying to turn around in a 20" space.> What I consider to be the important dimension, side to side (swimming distance) <How does it turn to go back the other way?> they are the same. Does anyone have any anecdotal evidence of a small juvenile queen angel, around 2", growing to be healthy and happy in a 125G tank? <Anecdotal evidence means little. I have anecdotal evidence of people living to be 90 despite smoking 2 packs a day. That doesn't mean smoking isn't dangerous.> It would be one of only two larger fish. I plan on having a Zebrasoma desjardinii as well. (I think this fish belongs in a bigger tank too.> All other fish will be of normal smaller size. <You would not be able to have any other fish than these two in such a small tank. You need to re-think your plan. Get a smaller angel and a smaller tang.> Thanks in advance! <Sorry to be the bearer of bad news. Steve Allen>

Regal Angel in a Reef >Hi Bob/Crew, >>Hello, Marina here tonight. >I just wondered if you could provide some info beyond what I know. I have acquired a 3 inch juvenile Red Sea Pygoplites diacanthus, tip top shape, feeding in the shop on Mysis, and put it in my 120g reef tank (mostly leather, Sinularia, a Fungia, xenia, etc). >>A brave, brave thing you've done, but to have best success with this animal, I think you've provided the best possible of circumstances. However, do watch some corals. If you have sponges growing well he'll make good and happy use of them. >Circulation is good I think, about 20000 l/h -2 Tunze 4002 and one stream 6100- and there is plenty of live rock. I have an aragonite sump. I feed a variety of foods (Mysis, krill, Gammarus, SF bay emerald entree, squid, lobsters eggs, all soaked in Zoe and vitamins every day) and I add my own hand made live phyto every day. I was just wondering if you have any suggestions beyond what I am doing to make the fish feel ok. >>He should FEEL just fine, but also offer greenery. If you have anything resembling a refugium in which you can grow your own macro algae, he should wish to make use. Also, Nori (Japanese sushi algae sheets) is EXCELLENT, both to free-feed and to soak in said supplements (I very much like Selcon). >His tankmates are a 6" majestic - no aggression whatsoever from him at all to the little one, rather the little one seems to have sort of adopted him and never strays far from him... weird hey? - and a regal tang. >>You have definitely broken some rules with the mixing of angels, though they are each a different genus, so I would remain hopeful that no aggression will transpire upon maturation. I *would* like to see these fish in a larger system, double that size would be a great start. >The regal angel is eating and acting normally and moving about in the rocks. So, any further dietary or other suggestions? >>Watch, and the tang will greatly appreciate the addition of Nori as well. I think you should gain best results in this situation, but do watch for nipping of corals by them. A link: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/marine/fishes/angels/pygoplites/ -- and another: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/marine/fishes/angels/pomacanthus/euxiphipops.htm >Many thanks, Massimo, Brighton UK >>Quite welcome, Massimo, and best of luck! Marina

Where Angels DON'T Fear To Tread! Thanks for your time and assistance, it's truly valued out here in reefer land. <And we really enjoy corresponding with our fellow fish nuts! Scott F. with you tonight...> I have been preparing my tank for the last few months to display a Centropyge multicolor and, as this fish costs about 5x any other living investment I have made, I am a little paranoid about my preparation. I've written here a few times so a Google with broh will bring up my past questions - The tank is MUCH more grown out than these older pics show http://www.skimmerless.com/content/rig/12/. The quick of it - I had a pump failure about 6 months ago, and the consequent death left me saddened, but excited that I could restock closer to my original stocking plan. <Looks like a nice Centropyge environment to me!> The tank has gone about 3 months now with a school of 9 Chromis viridis as the only fish. The tank is 30x30x30 with a 55gal refuge. I have let the macro grow like wild, removing only the algae that interferes with the corals by shading, or growth. My parameters are the best they have ever been, with all levels at zero except Nitrate which tends to hang out a little below 5 ppm. <Still quite acceptable, and can drop to undetectable levels with continued good husbandry procedures> I have been reading through the FAQs here and whatever I could find on the web about this fish. I am curious about specific algae that this fish will take. I'd feel awfully silly if all the Caulerpas (racemosa, mexicana) Dictyota I grow are not of interest to the fish. <Well, this fish is usually found among rubble on steep outer reef slopes, so macroalgae may form a more limited part of its diet. However, if well maintained, the macroalgae can perform other valuable services, such as serving as a fine nutrient export mechanism, and acting as a haven for useful food items, such as amphipods, etc.> The only other question I have is about lighting. The tank was aquascaped with hiding in mind - so there are lots of caves and almost completely dark areas, however, there is still close to 1000W pouring into this tank. Should I reduce my 10000k lamp schedule and rely on the 20000k more to simulate a deeper environment? <It certainly couldn't hurt...It will certainly lend a more "realistic" look to the tank> The only other fish in the tank will be the Chromis, a blue spot jaw, and possibly a fairy wrasse in the future. Thanks. Bill Roh <Sounds like a nice mix. I like your approach to keeping this unique fish! It's very cool to plan a biotope around a fish's special needs. Good luck! Regards, Scott F>

Angelfishes for Marine Aquariums
Diversity, Selection & Care
New eBook on Amazon: Available here
New Print Book on Create Space: Available here

by Robert (Bob) Fenner

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