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Klein's Butterfly Heavy breathing no appetite; and no data
4/17/14 Anti-red aqua medic algicide
2/3/12 Chloroquine Phosphate to Kill
Algae 8/6/11 Kent RXP and live
rock 7/1/11 Quick Question/Algae Control, SW, algicide f'
1/24/11 Lost fish, trying to determine reason.
12/28/10 Xenia... chemical algaecide use
4/24/10 Re: Xenia... hlth? 4/27/10 SERIOUS problem - help requested: Tank (re)cycling, red
slime control f's 1/25/2010 Re: Odd Lysmata Amboinensis Deaths, ChemiClean... not an
Algicide claim 11/6/09 I am Lost Help!, Cyano treatment and related problems 7/11/08 Hello and thanks in advance, <Hi> I have been the example for so long on how to do things properly that I have found myself speechless. I have a beautiful 135 Gallon Reef with a beautiful collection of fish and corals that has been successful for over 2 years. I do not want to bore you with ALL the details but my water is near perfect. <Numbers please near perfect is not of much use.> I have/had an great collection of tangs and wrasses along with a clown trigger ( I know I know). Here is the issue.... Tues, Morning I noticed a bit of red slime Cyano and my Naso was wedged between two rocks dead. <Why?> I treated the tank with Red Slime Remover by Ultra Life as I have in the past. <I would not add anything to your tank that does not list its ingredients. Most likely you dosed your tank with Erythromycin.> All was well while the Lights were on. As directed I turned off my canister that I run with live rock and carbon and left just my refugium and Hydor on. The next morning, All my fish were sluggish and blotchy with labored breathing. I lost my powder blue and flame angel. I thought this may be lack of oxygen due to treatment so I began full power and filtration again. <Or due to a crash in water quality due to the possible destruction of the biofilter.> The tank looked to have fully recovered during the day. Still water quality including Phosphates were in check. <Numbers please.> This morning, same thing but I lost my harlequin tusk and the same labored breathing, etc. Now that the lights are on everything is back to normal. I just don't get it, Help! Tony Romano <Hard to say what exactly happened since we don't really know what you added to the tank. Best bet here is to watch water quality closely and do a few extra water changes. Again I will stress how important it is to not add unknown substances to the tank.> <Chris>
Algae research, CuSO4 bibliog....... 4/8/08 Robert... you really seem to be tuned into algae control. I'd very much like to obtain some good research on the use of copper sulfate to control algae. I'd like to be able to read it and then reference it. could you direct me to some good sources for this. thanks so much for your help, Ric <Mmm, in the early eighties I worked more directly for the gov't at a facility here in San Diego... NOSC (the civil servants love their acronyms), Naval Ocean Systems Center... at a bio-assay lab... essentially testing copper and organo-tin compounds for their efficacy and toxicity to a few species, densities of sea life... At the time they had a bibliography of a few thousand references... See a large/college library with a science dept. (bio., chem.) of size here. Doing such searches is covered on WWM. Bob Fenner> Red Slime on sand, Antibiotic treatments 3/5/08 Good Morning. <And too you.> Sorry to bother all of you so early this morning, but I have a bit of a problem. I have been getting a case of red slime algae on my sand and rocks. Almost looks like pudding skins. I have done water changed with RO water and tried to remove it. It just keeps coming back worse than it was and is getting scary close to my corals which I heard is bad. By the way, my water param.s are as follows: Ammonia = 0 Nitrites = 0 Ph = 8.4 Nitrates = 5 - 10 ppm I took a trip to my LFS and they suggested UltraLife Red Slime Remover. <I would not use, is an anti-biotic, Erythromycin if memory serves.> I was hesitant to put anything in my tank, but after trying to get rid of it and failing, and because it was coming very very close to my corals, I decided to use some of this product. <Better approaches here, like finding what is driving its growth. Test for phosphates which are often the cause, and find and remove the source of it.> I know this is bad, but I felt that my corals were going to be victims very shortly. <Still may be due to lower water quality, potential restarting of the nitrogen cycle.> I used a diluted dose and it worked very very well. All gone in about 24 hours. <Will return if conditions are right.> All my life, snails, sand sifter star, 2 tank raised clowns, and corals are all healthy. In fact, my mushroom corals have about tripled in size and look great since dosing with this stuff. The only problem was that my protein skimmer started to go crazy (AquaC remora) and was foaming and filling in seconds. I had to turn it off until the water cleared up from the dose of red slime remover. After two days I turned it back on and the same thing. It is foaming like crazy and producing millions of bubbles in the tank. I know that this has to be because of the red slime remover. Because the damage has already been done, do you have any suggestions at all of how I can turn the skimmer back on without having to watch it 24 hours a day? <Lots of water changes.> Any help fixing this problem would be wonderful. Thanks for all of your time and efforts on this wonderful site. Matt <I would be doing lots of water changes and watching the water quality very closely. Your biofilter was very likely severely damaged by the Red Slime Remover. See here for more. http://www.wetwebmedia.com/bluegralgae.htm .> <Chris> Can red slime treatment affect SPS? Coral Death 1/8/08 Gentleman, <Hello> Recently I treated for red slime with "ultra life - red slime remover" in my 125 gal reef tank (after reading some of the forums...I know this was bad but this was the LFS recommendation). <Not good in my opinion.> I think I know the answer to the question, but ...have you heard of this product affecting SPS corals? <Yes, is an antibiotic and can negatively effect the whole tank. See here for more http://www.wetwebmedia.com/bluegralgae.htm .> I had two SPS corals slime over about 48 hrs after the treatment and completely die within 12 hrs of that. All water parameters are on par (now and then) <numbers please> and I did an immediate water change which seams to have salvaged one tiny tip of one of the corals. All other SPS corals currently appear OK for now. Any info on this would be greatly appreciated. Many thanks John F <More water changes would help here, and figuring out what is fueling the Cyano bloom and eliminating this will help control it in the future. http://www.wetwebmedia.com/cyanocontrolfaqs.htm> <Chris> Blue Life's Red Slime Control = Death -12/16/2007 I used Blue Life's Red Slime Control to get a nasty out of control Cyanobacteria problem under control. The directions are 1 scoop of "poison" for every 10 gallons of water. Overdosing WILL reduce oxygen levels. Do not use your protein skimmer and don't dose at night. Check. OK, I'll start off by saying you're right, I should have listened. It's a sad day in the reef today. Massive loss of fish...OK all 8 of my fish have died. <Huh... that's odd.> Now I'm wondering how many corals will survive.?!?! <Not all things/conditions which can kill fish affect corals the same way.> What can I do at this point other than protein skimming and water changes to ensure there isn't a total collapse. <Run plenty of activated carbon filtration (preferably through a canister filter or media reactor).> Any advice right now would be appreciated. Lastly I would like to warn all of your readers out there to avoid this product like the plague !!! <Yikes. Ok, true enough, I usually do advice against the use of broad scale antibiotics for Cyano control. However, I've met and spoken with the Blue Life guys on multiple occasions and I don't think they'd sell an outrageously dangerous product (at least not purposely). I suspect something else might be going on here/contributing to the problem.> Blue Life's Red Slime Control = Death <Hmm... maybe in your experience, but let's not light the torches just yet.> Thank you, Chris <Best, Sara M.> Use of Chemi-Clean - 9/29/07 I have and outbreak of red slime and bought some Chemi-Clean to remove it. <I don't recommend the use of Chemi-Clean. It is best to get to the source of the problem and correct. It may be poor water quality or you may not have enough flow. The use of Chemi-Clean can kill off your beneficial bacteria.> I am hesitant to use it because of this statement on the box: "Remove Chemi-Pure or any other Carbon Filtration for 24 hours following each treatment. During treatment maintain tank oxygen levels with airstone or other aerator." My question is does anybody have any personal knowledge of this product, and do I need to buy an airstone to aerate? <No. This statement is telling you that any media (Chemi-Pure and/or Carbon) you may have in your filter needs to be removed to give the Chemi-Clean a chance to work. You must keep pumps running.> It's in my 14 gallon nano tank which has an additional Rio 90 power head for circulation. <The powerhead does meet this requirement.> I would like some advice before I add this stuff. Thanks in advance <You're Welcome! Brenda> Re: Use of Chemi-Clean - 10/01/07 <Hello, Brenda here> Do you recommend another product besides Chemi-clean? I have "sucked" out all the slime and done a 25% water change at this point. <Adding any product is just putting a band-aid on the problem and will damage your beneficial bacteria. Removal is a great start. Keeping pristine water conditions, adding more flow, and increased skimming will also help. You want to control your nutrients and phosphates in your water as well. Also keep your calcium, alkalinity and magnesium in their appropriate ranges. More information found here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/bluegralgae.htm Hope this helps! Brenda> The last straw... BGA and its control, not chem. 9/11/07 Hi Alex (or someone else on the crew)! <Dear Alex is on vacation, Sara here.> Thanks again, as always, for all your help in the past. To do a brief recap of our tank: A 120-gallon reef tank. I am sorry I don't know the specifics of the lighting or technical hardware stuff, but we have in addition to the regular stuff, an extra powerhead (moves 1100 gph) and a skimmer (which we can't use; see below). Ammonia 0, nitrates 10, nitrites 0, ph 8.32, temp 80-82 (no chiller), phosphates .05. About 150 pounds of live rock on a bed of about 80 pounds of live sand. Salinity 1.023. <The salinity of a reef tank should be 1.025sg. Nitrates should be close to 0.> As of May, this is what we had in the tank fishwise: Sailfin, Foxface, three Clarkiis, flame angel, four teeny Chromis, bicolor Pseudochromis, engineer goby and two yellow tangs. One algae blenny, <little crowded> one sand sifting starfish, <...which will surely die after it assaults your sand bed.> many blue- and red-legged crabs, assorted snails. And four peppermint shrimp and one fire shrimp. Survivors: Sailfin, two Clarkiis, the Chromis, bicolor, engineer goby and the Fireshrimp. In May, other life: Kenya tree (just split in two!), two feather dusters, two coco worms, yellow polyps, tons of mushrooms, anthelia, Trachyphyllia (sp?) brain, large green plate, wall hammer, three gorgonians, Alveopora, Candycane, Chile. I think that's about it. <Mixing leathers and LPS... ugh> Survivors: a few mushrooms, Candycane (not doing well), one teeny feather duster. <yikes> I'll do my best to keep this brief, but this is the end for us if we can't figure out how to stop our problem. In March we had a massive outbreak of long-haired algae. With your advice and help, we removed all the rock, switched to R/O water and cleaned everything. By hand. More than five hours. That was March 17. By the end of April, it was all back. On April 29, we did it again. On May 19, the long-haired algae was still gone, but we had an outbreak of red slime. At that point we started treating with Red Slime remover, so had to turn the protein skimmer off (after learning the hard way that it will overflow). In June and July and August, we battled the slime. We hired our LFS to come and scrub rock and clean. Everything started dying. We dosed with Red Slime remover six weeks in a row (on the advice of our LFS). <I've never been a big fan of the use of broad spectrum antibiotics in a reef tank.> We did water changes. We ran a fan over the top of the tank (yes, it got hot ... no chiller....but we turned up the thermometers so the swing wasn't so brutal). I admit there were days the tank was 86. <That's not such a big deal. Reef aquariums are best kept at temp 80 to 83F.> The red slime took over everything (we have pictures if you want to see). And the long-haired algae returned. Everything died. Yesterday we spent another five hours pulling everything out of the tank. We scrubbed and cleaned and added some new sand. We rearranged the powerhead and bent the returns to make the flow more even. We purchased an additional powerhead thinking we'd put it in today. When we woke up this morning and looked in the tank, the red slime was back. We are sick. Please help. <Ay yi yi, where to begin? Am I to assume you set up this tank sometime in Feb. or march? You have some major filtration issue going on. You said your protein skimmer isn't working. Do you have any other form of filtration? It sounds to me like you never let the tank completely cycle (this takes at least a month). You have inadequate filtration. Then you overstocked the tank with fish and corals which you didn't adequately research before hand. These mostly died, making the problem that much worse. I'm not trying to give you a hard time here, but the fact is that reef aquarium keeping is the most challenging of all types of aquarium keeping. You have to be willing to read a lot and have a great deal of patience.> Michael and Dianne <Best, Sara M.> Re: the last straw, part 2 9/11/07 We forgot to add: We have read (several times) Blue Green Algae/Cyanobacteria, Identification, Causes & Control. <<Lo dudo. RMF>> We feed the fish sort of randomly, perhaps once every six days or so. <Ugh, fish need to be fed every day.> We use either Mysis shrimp, a veggie cube, some pellets or an algae sheet in the clip. <Mysis shrimp and Nori sheets are good. I'd stay away from "veggie cubes" and pellets. Marine fish are best fed with fresh (or frozen) minced/chopped squid, shrimp, and other meaty seafoods. (Don't feed more than what they'll eat within a minute.)> We were feeding the coral liquid stuff, but stopped. It hasn't made a difference. <Would you ever order something off a menu described by the restaurant as "liquid stuff?" Never put anything in your tank unless you know what it is. Different corals feed differently. You need to research each and every coral you have in order to know how best to feed it.> Until yesterday, phosphates and nitrates were 0. We vacuum out the BGA all the time. We also use a turkey baster and blast it off the rock, but it reforms immediately. <You have grossly inadequate water flow for a 120g reef tank.> We do a major water change (30 gallons) once a month, and add a gallon of fresh R/O water every day. <And how do you maintain calcium and alkalinity?> Thanks. Michael and Dianne <Best, Sara M.> Re: the last straw, part 3 9/11/07 Sara M: Thanks for your response(s). Let me answer some of your questions and ask others .... We have more than one powerhead ... in total, we are moving 2,450 gph in the tank including the filter. We are considering adding another 1100 gph powerhead. Should we? <Typically, you want to have as much water flow as is feasible.> (The baffles in the tank will not handle more than 1300 gph so our only other option to move more water is a closed-loop system.) <The 3 powerheads should be fine for the corals you have left now (make sure to arrange your rock so it's not all up against the walls of the tank).> We are not using the protein skimmer because we need to completely clear out the red slime medicine. Once the tank is free of it, we will turn the skimmer on again. <You should turn the skimmer back on. You don't have to have all the red slime remover out. Just think about this... if the medicine is killing the Cyano, where does it go? This is why things like red slime remover don't actually solve the underlying problem. The Cyano grew in your tank because of excess nutrients and dissolved organics. When you kill it, you just put all this stuff back in the water. Except now it's arguably even worse since it's no longer bound up in a living organism. The skimmer will help remove some of what the dead/dying Cyano leaves behind.> We set up our tank in December and didn't start having problems until mid-March. Others on your site have said that feeding the fish irregularly is perfectly fine, and that feeding them everyday is too much. <Feeding them irregularly is ok, but feeding every 6 days is far too infrequent. The reason some aquarists say that feeding fish every day is "too much" is because most people feed way too much at once. It's far better to feed a small amount every day (or at least every other day). This is better for your fish and your tank.> The coral stuff is Corallite (I didn't get up and find the bottles when I wrote last night). <Do you mean Kent Marine Coral-Vite maybe? You don't need this stuff.> We will have to look into maintaining calcium and alkalinity. And we will research more ... we recently got several books on coral and marine fish. <Very good. But seriously, calcium and alkalinity are two of those things you should have been monitoring and maintaining since day 1.> How do we get rid of the red slime? <Turn your protein simmer back on and keep doing your regular water changes. When you do your water changes, suck out as much of it as you can. It may take some time for it to clear up completely. Don't add anything more to the tank for at least 3 to 4 weeks. It also wouldn't hurt to start running some activated carbon filtration (but you don't have to).> Should we remove all the dead coral from the tank? (We've left most of it in, since they are now just rocks.) <If all the tissue is gone, there's no need to remove it.> Thanks again, Michael and Dianne <De nada and good luck, Sara M.> Mysterious Coral Bleaching, Not Such A Mystery (Antibiotics Administered To The Display System) - 08/08/07 Dear WWM Crew, <<Hello Bill>> Please lend me your thoughts. <<Sure thing>> Recently (within the past week) I noticed two Montipora corals in my tank that have been acclimated and growing well begin to bleach. Within the past two days a few small Pocillopora and Acropora began to bleach as well and polyps hid. <<Mmm, an environmental issue of some sort>> I've checked the tank parameters - everything seems rather on par - 75 gallon tank -Alkalinity - 4.2 (may be a bit high?) <<Considering you Calcium is over 400...yes, a bit>> -Calcium - 420 -Nitrate - 0 -Temp - 74 - 76 night and day <<Probably fine but a little on the cool side in my opinion>> -SG- 1.024 <<Better than many I've seen but bumping to NSW levels (1.025/1.026) is best>> -Lighting - 2 * 250 10K, 4 * 96 actinic. All the corals have loved the light to this point. <<Unless the bulbs are "very" old this is likely not the issue>> I think my problem may be one of two things, or a combo of both. I used a cycle of "Chemi Clean" Cyanobacteria remover which threw my protein skimmer way out of cycle. <<Ugh! It has done much more harm than that I fear...you have likely wiped out much of your biological filtration. You didn't list an Ammonia reading but you need to check this right away...as well as preparing/performing large water changes and adding chemical filtration (Carbon/Poly-Filter/Chemi-Pure) to try to keep the buildup of nitrogenous compounds under control until bacteria has a chance to repopulate>> It is creating massive amounts of micro-bubbles so I haven't been able to run it properly. <<Possibly overcome by the increased organics load...perhaps you can adjust it "down" a bit>> I am doing a third partial water change today (in the last week) to try to remove excess chemicals so I can get my skimmer running normally (not overflowing the collection cup constantly). <<The water changes probably explain why your Nitrate reading was zero. Do try to get the skimmer back in service...perhaps throttling it back a bit to slow down the overfilling of the skimmer cup>> There is also one leather coral in the tank, could the lack of chemical filtration for the past two weeks, or that in conjunction with the leather emitting toxins be killing these previously healthy corals? <<Is definitely a contributor...at the very least is exacerbating the situation. Get some chemical filtration going!>> Any advice? <<Yes...don't administer antibiotics to your display system...and start reading here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/bluegralgae.htm>> Thanks! Bill <<Regards, EricR>> Re: Mysterious Coral Bleaching, Not Such A Mystery (Antibiotics Administered To The Display System) - 08/10/07 Eric, <<Bill>> Thank you for the thoughts and advice. <<You're quite welcome>> I will NEVER use any Cyano "solution" again. <<Are surely trouble...>> The day before I received your email I placed carbon and Chemi-pure in my sump. <<Excellent! Though do consider a purposeful reactor/canister filter for such to achieve maximum effect>> Yesterday the skimmer began working again (it wasn't working at the lowest flow setting previously) for the first time after another partial water change and two days of the carbon/Chemi-pure in the sump. <<Mmm...a good sign>> Question - now that the skimmer is running how long should I leave the carbon/Chemi-pure in the sump for additional filtration as I do not want to remove trace elements for too long? <<I prefer to "always" have some chemical filtrant in my system (I employ two reactors with cut-up Poly-Filter on my 375). I feel the benefits far outweigh any small loss of trace elements...and the latter is of very small/no concern really with regular water changes. In fact, there have been writings on the possible buildup of trace elements to toxic levels in our "enclosed" systems as many of these elements can enter our tanks through different avenues, not the least of which is the foods we feed>> Thanks Again, Bill <<Always happy to help. Eric Russell>> Micro bubbles from my protein skimmer... Chemical Algicide use... 6/30/07 Good evening, all. <Yawnnnn! AM here now> I have a 100 gallon, fish only tank with about 50 pounds of live rock. <Okay> I turned off my protein skimmer on Thursday afternoon to treat a red slime algae problem in my tank. I used ChemiClean. <... not advised...> I've just turned my protein skimmer back on after being unplugged for 36 hours and it is producing an exorbitant amount of micro-bubbles that are getting pushed up into the tank. <Good... you need to remove as much of the products, by-products of using this "Algicide" as quickly as possible> I've unplugged the skimmer to stop the micro-bubble flow for now, but I have no idea why the skimmer is causing them, or what else I can do to prevent it. Any suggestions? Trapped in bubbles, Scott <The Boyd product Scott... not a good idea... I'd do a few largish water changes... one a day over the next few days... leave the skimmer going, place some PolyFilter, Activated Carbon... and hope your system doesn't crash... Please read here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/maralgcidefaqs.htm and the linked files above. Bob Fenner>
Algae Magic 1/4/07 Anyone had any experience with this product from Marc Weiss? Thanks Craig Smith <None directly, but after reading their site there are better ways to go about this. Water changes and feeding less are more effective.> <Chris> Re: I think one of the tankmates is chewing the tail on my Foxface; 8/4/06 Thank you as always Bob. <Welcome... and oh, am going to be in NJ on the 24 on... to visit mum in law for her bday, and give a pitch at the NJ Reef Club... might meet you> I am still looking but I can never seem to find which fish is at fault in there. I even peek in there discreetly at night, morning and evening so they 'shouldn't' know I am looking but nothing so far. I still suspect the little tiger as she picks at everything. Oh, the Powder Blue tang ended badly in spite of my best efforts. <Par for this species... trials in captive circumstances> I left him with the LFS and they had power outage from a storm and lost all their PBTs except one... unfortunately the one wasn't mine. I really did want to find him a nice big home. This was an all around tragedy as they had some gorgeous tanks that were wiped out. What would they have done without insurance coverage?!? OUCH! Yes, everyone would benefit from a UPS, <These really do work...> or backup generator if possible, to avert some of the smaller scale power disasters. A UPS to run either an air pump and stone or a power-head with air running from a line is a small investment to protect our watery friends...IMHO. <I concur> On another note, I have a product called Chemi Clean that took care of the majority of the BGA/Cyano Bacteria problem. I may need to run another treatment as I quite an infestation in spite of my constant water changes and vacuuming/removing the red slime. I finally caved and used this stuff again and thus far the Condylactis and Peppermint Shrimp are doing well. <You've been fortunate...> Following the instructions with a 20% water change after 24 hours and having removed the carbon it seems to have really put a significant dent on the colonies of red yuck. I used cheesecloth to manually remove as much of the stringy material as possible. It also seems that the power-head, pump and protein skimmer all run better. <Also to be expected...> I imagine this product helped clear the film of red slime from the impellers. Disassembly found them cleaner than on my normal routine maintenance. <Mmm, and just overall whacked the BGA so it couldn't continue to modify the environment to its ends> Further detail: the slime problems in the tank seem generally due to temperature fluctuations. Being 24 gallons it has been hard to keep the temperature stable with the sunlight exposure in that spot and from the ambient heat of summer. Another possibility is that the filters from the RO system needed to be changed sooner than they were. I really have come to dislike small tanks even if only for quarantine or backup and far more so the 'nanocube' all in one versions. A better solution is a tank with similar dimensions that has similar components so exchanging parts during inevitable breakdowns or emergencies is easier; lighting and etc. After all we need similar lighting needs for our corals in both QT and in the main display. Nanocubes seem like a great upfront solution at a reasonable expense until you have to replace parts or have to try and get components to fit therein. <Agreed> Finally, the Remora Protein Skimmer is fantastic! This was by far the best money spent on the tank thus far. Thank you so very much for the suggestion. It is so easy to use, adjust and works so very well. Sincerely, James Zimmer Garfield, NJ <Hope to see you soon. BobF> BGA Control, Slime remover and Anemone 8/4/06 Dear Bob, <James with you today.> I had a red slime algae problem for a while and used the product Slime Remover (comes on a rectangular blue box). Worked perfectly and although I know its not a solution it helped me save a lot of tank life due to it's abundance. I have started a rigid bi/weekly cleaning and water change to try to reduce nitrates and switched to r/o water for minimal phosphates as well as feeding less in concern that I am over feeding. My main concern is my anemone. I have a Bubble Tip Anemone and I am hoping that the slime remover is not killing the symbiotic algae it needs to survive. DO you know if this is a general problem. <Anemones are difficult enough to keep without tainting the water quality with such products as Slime Remover. Depending on the wattage of your light fixture, you may not have enough light for the anemone to carry out photosynthesis.> Also I have notice he has shrunk a little since I have gotten him and doesn't open up as much, however he does have a great appetite and I feed him weekly with silversides. <Although these products are supposedly safe with invertebrates, most contain erythromycin which kills bacteria (good or bad) and fungal diseases. The product works well in this regard since the slime algae is actually a bacteria (Cyanobacteria). I would look at this link, and related links above, for controlling the problem. I, personally, would not use such products for BGA control. http://www.wetwebmedia.com/bluegralgae.htm> I have a 48" power compact light with actinic bulbs that run approx 14 hrs a day, salinity is 1.24, nitrates are minimal, have a 12 gallon mud sump with mangroves, 55 gallon tank. Best regards, <And to you. James (Salty Dog)> Jason Algaecide and Corals, a Bad Combination 7/16/06 Hello all, <Hi> I'm having some problems with my green star polyps. <Lets see if we can help.> I got them about a month ago, and they were THRIVING. Marked difference since their addition to my tank. I also have some yellow polyps, and green button polyps. I have had a minor problem with algae, so I tried adding some Algone to my tank, in addition to some de nitrate from SeaChem. <There is your problem.> The day after adding the two, my green button polyps didn't look as 'happy', and my green star polyps had not come out. (I also removed my carbon, as per Algone directions). I also added some Fluval prefilter (if that helps). <Replace the carbon ASAP.> I waited 3 days, still no green star polyps (4-5 extend, but the other 300 stay in). Thinking the Algone may be the problem, I removed it, and re-instated my carbon, leaving the de nitrate in. <Remove all added chemicals ASAP.> Its been 2 days since my removal of the Algone, the green star polyps have still not returned (green buttons back to normal, looking great). In addition, the purple mat is looking worse every day, what can I do! <Lots of water changes, run lots of carbon and get some PolyFilters if possible.> Nothing else was altered (pH, salinity), and they were thriving until I added the Algone, so I'm convinced something other than water quality is involved (all specs good). <Yes, toxic chemicals.> Thanks as always, Whit <Anytime> <Chris> Re: Algaecide and Corals, a Bad Combination Part II 7/18/06 Sorry, I am a bit confused- the Algone comes in a pouch, it was removed. <But it is probably still in the water, need to get it out of the environment.> The de nitrate is granular like carbon. Do you think the de nitrate could be the problem, or do you think its the Algone? <Most likely the Algone, but I would remove the Denitrate as well. If nitrates are an ongoing problem you need to find the source and set up water changes.> Thanks, Whit <Anytime> <Chris> Cyano problems and problematic stars 6/14/06 Dear Crew <Hi> I'm having a pretty big problem with Cyanobacteria. My phosphates are high, so I'm currently using PhosGuard to try to bring it down. <Check for the source as well, better to never have it in the tank than try to remove it later.> Other than phosphates, ammonia and nitrites were 0, nitrates were 15, and ph was 8.0. <PH is a little low, but not to bad.> A marine biologist at a local fish store said to put a dose of erythromycin in the tank to kill the Cyano and then to vacuum it out along with a water change. She also told me to put snails and a sand sifter starfish in the tank to eat the organics and detritus in the substrate, and to help aerate it. Unfortunately, I woke up the next day to find all of the snails and the starfish dead. This brings me to my first question: Are there any flaws in my plan of attack against this Cyano? <Oh yeah. Erythromycin, along with killing the Cyano, will also kill most of your biological filtration, leading to a whole bunch of problems.> I don't want to do anything harmful to my fish or not do enough so that it comes back. <Will come back as long as it has a food source and PO4 as fertilizer.> I also want to know, what does a starfish look like when it is dead? I heard they get soft and jelly-like. <Sometimes> My starfish definitely is not soft. It is quite hard actually. I believe it is dead because it did not move once since I purchased it last night. This morning, when I lifted it up to see if there was any movement from its structures underneath, I noticed a lime green/yellow on the sand where it was laying. <Not good.> The starfish did not bury itself at all or move to a new location. Even though it is not soft, is my starfish dead? <Could be, if it has not moved at all and you see no tube feet moving, likely dead.> Thank you, Mike <Find the source of the phosphates and manually remove as much Cyano as you can. With time/effort can be overcome. Stay away from quick fixes like antibiotic, nothing good every happens fast in aquariums. Also few creatures consume Cyano so don't overdo it snails and other cleaner.> <Chris> - Seahorses and ChemiClean - 6/14/06 Hi <Hello.> I had a problem with red algae in my tank so I put ChemiClean in my seahorse tank. The only problem is that I didn't notice that there was an enclosed teaspoon so instead I used a regular teaspoon to measure the ChemiClean out and dump it into my tank. I overdosed on the ChemiClean a lot. One seahorse died and now the second seahorse is swimming upside down and has bumps on her tail. I was wondering if there was anything I could do to help the seahorse survive. Thank you Nicole <Nicole, I would perform a couple of large (50%) water changes a couple of days apart. Hope that helps. Cheers, J -- > Algae Control 5/31/06 Hello, <Hi Brian> It seems after a few power outages which lasted much longer than I'd like I've got an algal bloom. The past week I've done a series of several water changes to correct any possible nitrate, nitrite (and so forth) problems and it's still horrible. The pet store recommended Maracyn. Will this be very affective/hurt inverts? I'm worrying about a crocea clam, torch coral, brain coral, anemone, and zoos etc. . <Brian, this product is known to work for Cyano but will do little for algae. I would not use this product with sensitive inverts in the tank that depend on photosynthesis to survive. Do read here and related links above for help with algae control. http://www.wetwebmedia.com/algaeconMar.htm James (Salty Dog)> Brian Ammonia Spike in Established 55G Tank. Mis-stocked, Algicide et al. chemically poisoned, non-cycling system 5/24/06 Hey Crew, <Jeremy> Very recently my tank's ammonia levels seem to be going off the charts. <Not good> My tank has been running for about a year and my Ammonia and Nitrates have never been high. I have about 60-70lbs of LR and LS each. Recently I added one of those dual BioWheel filter systems (rated to 75 gallon) along with my BakPak skimmer to help out because the skimmer has never really been that great... <Mmm... why? Brand? Application? Mystery?> My tank inhabitants are a pair of Percula Clowns (1 - 2.5" and 1 - 1.25"), a 3-4" Blue Regal Tang and a 3" juv. Imperator Angel. I know this tank is small for the tang and angel but I am about to upgrade to a 130 gallon system that a friend no longer wants. Those 4 fishes in a 55 shouldn't be considered overcrowding especially with the tang and angel being so small/young. Or is it? <Is... way too crowded... psychologically and appears physiologically> Last week I saw some Cyano growth on the LR. I did a massive water change, and a few small ones as well as up the circulation to get rid of any dead spots. I added a powerhead to shoot water through the center of the tank. Other than the fishes taking turns to play in the current, I don't see any changes. I usually don't feed too much either to keep the wastes down. I added some "Red Slime Removal" powder <A poor idea... Please read here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/maralgcidefaqs.htm> and I saw a noticeable reduction in the Cyano. <Just recycled... toxic> I am still not sure that I did the right thing adding that directly into the tank. Now, it is all back <Yep> and my ammonia levels have gone through the roof. <Ditto> I have been checking my ammonia levels daily and it continues to look worse. A level of 0 should show the color in the test tube to be a whitish yellow. Yesterday it was close to a teal color. Yes, teal color. I use the API Master Kit that everyone carries in their store. My fishes show little to no signs of stress, (if anything they look as healthy as can be, and eat like a pack of starving wolves) but I don't like the idea of them swimming in (supposedly) nasty water. Also I used AmmoLock <Not a good idea either...> for the first time and the label said the tests might show an increase of traceable ammonia levels but in a non toxic form that isn't distinguished by the tests. Did something all of a sudden go terribly wrong or is it the AmmoLock? <Can't tell from here...> I usually use StressCoat and Kent Ammonia Detox as tap conditioner. I use Oceanic Salt. <I would look for another salt brand. See WWM re> Maybe my tap water is the problem. <That too?> Do I need to get my QT fired up and throw them in there until this is resolved or is this something fixable in the near future? <... see WWM re Ammonia, Cycling... I would not feed these animals if ammonia is approaching 0.5 ppm> The 130 gallon won't be available for a few months so that isn't an option at this time. I added some Ammonia Detox, but I know that is that like putting on a band-aid and not solving the problem. Have you heard of Ammonia levels going from around 0 to ??? <Oh yes> (whatever my tests are showing) in a week's time? I just don't see how this is happening. Would adding a pack of Nitrifying bacteria help? <Possibly... see... re> I saw in the FAQ's that they may have died out and need to grow back. <Yes! The "powder"... likely bumped a bunch off, produced a physiological check> Oh yeah, Ph is around 8.2, Nitrites are 0 and spg is 1.024. The last time I checked Nitrate was about 2 weeks ago and it read 20. Thanks for all of your help, Jeremy <Read on my friend... no more chemicals, please. Bob Fenner> SW, killed fishes with Algicide, now continuing troubles - 03/22/06 I e-mailed you guys about 4-5 weeks go my 75 gal tank crashed. first I had a huge out break of red slime so I used medicine which I find out now was not the correct thing to do, <... correct> then a few days later I start losing fish within hours of each other, ok so now all my fish are dead so I start doing water changes first 15 % then 25% after a week I test with a fish and dying again in the same manner (sinking to the bottom then just dying within hours) I decide to go for it and just do a 75% water change I mean really what can I lose? Oh and my corals were not doing well either. then I e-mailed you and you tell me to wait it out for several weeks - Ok long story - its been 4 weeks and I put another damsel in the tank BAM after about an hour he is on the bottom of the tank and dies before morning. We have check the tank for electric current nothing, we have used poly filters, and ChemiPure, they don't really change any color except a yellowish tint. The water is tested for the normal stuff and is well within all ranges. I have had a saltwater tank for 4 yrs and never had this problem I just don't know what else to look for? I have Bob's book and cant seem to find anything in there that might be the problem either ANY IDEAS! PLEASE Thanks Shelly <Really just more time going by, water changes and chemical filtrant use. Your system will "cycle" into other organisms in time... could be sped up a bit with the addition of a few pounds of new live rock... Bob Fenner> Chemically Treated My Cyanobacteria...Now In Big Trouble - 02/26/06 Bob, <<EricR here this morning.>> I have had my 75 gal tank set up for 3 years now. I have a wet/dry with a protein Skimmer, and I use Chemi-Pure regularly. About 6 weeks ago I started to have a red slime out break along with green hair algae, and this black slime it was like a blanket on the LR (which smelled). I went to my local store and they sold me red slime remover, which after treatment I changed the water 2 times (20% changes) I also removed the black slime with my hands (coming off in very large sheets). Ok so then my fish start dying. Within 2 days all fish are dead sinking to bottom of tank with labored breathing ( 4 damsels, 1 goby, 1 per. clown and a blenny.) I do water changes to no avail. I notice that my Mushrooms, and other corals are not doing well they have tighten up or not opened or are limp. So I continue to do water changes ranging from 20-50% (I figured there's nothing to lose now). I also put in Chemi-Pure and a Poly-Filter. I wait a few days and try some test damsels and within 6 hours there dead. When this all started my water was tested and everything was great all within very good levels. Or so the store told me. That day I had bought two sand sifter gobies and the next morning they were belly up in the tank. I did the last water change at 75% 3 days ago and now I am at wits end. Any Ideas? <<Mmm, yes...I think you wiped out your bio-filter when you chemically treated your tank to kill the Cyanobacteria. In addition to eliminating your tank's ability to process nitrogenous wastes, you also released toxic substances from the slime algae...I'm not surprised to hear things are getting worse. And keep in mind concerning use of these chemicals for algae control...even had it not led to these problems, the algae would have been back in days to weeks as you are not addressing the cause/source of the algae.>> There are currently no fish in tank and my corals and inverts are not happy at best. By the way we have had no sprays or air fresheners or air borne things in the home. I use the same buckets that I have always used for water changes. <<I would stop adding fish and stop doing water changes (for now) and let the tank cycle (this may take a while). You also need to relocate your corals and inverts while this happens. EricR>> Thank you Chemically Treated My Cyanobacteria...Now In Big Trouble II - 03/07/06 Hello again, <<Hello Shelly>> I'm sorry but I see your response about what might have happen but I see no fix to the problem and you also mention that I still would have had the slime algae back within a few weeks how or what do I do to control that. <<Mmm, thought I made mention about removing the remaining livestock and letting the tank "cycle" again.>> I have since bought your book <<Bob's book>> however, I am waiting on the mail lady to bring it. Please if you have the time can you send me some helpful thing I may do for my tank? <<Happy to...go here ( http://www.wetwebmedia.com/bluegralgae.htm) and start reading up on the causes/preventions for Cyanobacteria. Do be sure to follow the indices in blue at the top of the page...much more info available to you than I can pass here. Thanks Shelly <<Regards, EricR>> Tank die off... actually kill-off... antibiotic "treatment" of algae 7/31/05 This morning I woke up to an almost complete tank die off. The only survivors were a Fire Shrimp, and hermit crabs. I lost several soft corals, two stony corals, and all 9 fish. <No fun> I did a 10% water change yesterday to which I added Erythromycin Thiocyanate. <... trouble...> I have been getting a lot of red algae growth on my glass for the past month, and last week some hair algae cropped up. <You killed off your livestock... Please read here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/maralgcidefaqs.htm> A couple years ago I had a serious hair algae problem, and I wanted to stop it before it got worse. Did the Erythromycin Thiocyanate cause the die off? <Yes> I also have very high calcium and alkalinity levels. Calcium is around 540 meg/L, and Alkalinity is 160 meg/L. <...?> I have not added any calcium supplements or buffers to the tank in over a year, and I only use RO water for water changes. <What salt mix? Please read on WWM re various brands...> I tested all other water quality parameters, and they are all very good. <... what is "good"? Subjective evaluations are of no use to us> Any ideas? <All sorts> Chris B. <Read. Bob Fenner> Ammonia Spike in Established 55G Tank. Mis-stocked, Algicide et al. chemically poisoned, non-cycling system 5/24/06 Hey Crew, <Jeremy> Very recently my tank's ammonia levels seem to be going off the charts. <Not good> My tank has been running for about a year and my Ammonia and Nitrates have never been high. I have about 60-70lbs of LR and LS each. Recently I added one of those dual BioWheel filter systems (rated to 75 gallon) along with my BakPak skimmer to help out because the skimmer has never really been that great... <Mmm... why? Brand? Application? Mystery?> My tank inhabitants are a pair of Percula Clowns (1 - 2.5" and 1 - 1.25"), a 3-4" Blue Regal Tang and a 3" juv. Imperator Angel. I know this tank is small for the tang and angel but I am about to upgrade to a 130 gallon system that a friend no longer wants. Those 4 fishes in a 55 shouldn't be considered overcrowding especially with the tang and angel being so small/young. Or is it? <Is... way too crowded... psychologically and appears physiologically> Last week I saw some Cyano growth on the LR. I did a massive water change, and a few small ones as well as up the circulation to get rid of any dead spots. I added a powerhead to shoot water through the center of the tank. Other than the fishes taking turns to play in the current, I don't see any changes. I usually don't feed too much either to keep the wastes down. I added some "Red Slime Removal" powder <A poor idea... Please read here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/maralgcidefaqs.htm> and I saw a noticeable reduction in the Cyano. <Just recycled... toxic> I am still not sure that I did the right thing adding that directly into the tank. Now, it is all back <Yep> and my ammonia levels have gone through the roof. <Ditto> I have been checking my ammonia levels daily and it continues to look worse. A level of 0 should show the color in the test tube to be a whitish yellow. Yesterday it was close to a teal color. Yes, teal color. I use the API Master Kit that everyone carries in their store. My fishes show little to no signs of stress, (if anything they look as healthy as can be, and eat like a pack of starving wolves) but I don't like the idea of them swimming in (supposedly) nasty water. Also I used AmmoLock <Not a good idea either...> for the first time and the label said the tests might show an increase of traceable ammonia levels but in a non toxic form that isn't distinguished by the tests. Did something all of a sudden go terribly wrong or is it the AmmoLock? <Can't tell from here...> I usually use StressCoat and Kent Ammonia Detox as tap conditioner. I use Oceanic Salt. <I would look for another salt brand. See WWM re> Maybe my tap water is the problem. <That too?> Do I need to get my QT fired up and throw them in there until this is resolved or is this something fixable in the near future? <... see WWM re Ammonia, Cycling... I would not feed these animals if ammonia is approaching 0.5 ppm> The 130 gallon won't be available for a few months so that isn't an option at this time. I added some Ammonia Detox, but I know that is that like putting on a band-aid and not solving the problem. Have you heard of Ammonia levels going from around 0 to ??? <Oh yes> (whatever my tests are showing) in a week's time? I just don't see how this is happening. Would adding a pack of Nitrifying bacteria help? <Possibly... see... re> I saw in the FAQ's that they may have died out and need to grow back. <Yes! The "powder"... likely bumped a bunch off, produced a physiological check> Oh yeah, Ph is around 8.2, Nitrites are 0 and spg is 1.024. The last time I checked Nitrate was about 2 weeks ago and it read 20. Thanks for all of your help, Jeremy <Read on my friend... no more chemicals, please. Bob Fenner> Re: Ammonia Spike in Established 55G Tank. Mis-stocked, Algicide et al. chemically poisoned, non-cycling system 5/26/06 Bob, Thanks for the reply. My replies will be in double carats. Hey Crew, <Jeremy> Very recently my tank's ammonia levels seem to be going off the charts. <Not good> My tank has been running for about a year and my Ammonia and Nitrates have never been high. I have about 60-70lbs of LR and LS each. Recently I added one of those dual BioWheel filter systems (rated to 75 gallon) along with my BakPak skimmer to help out because the skimmer has never really been that great... <Mmm... why? Brand? Application? Mystery?> <<Skimmate is usually clear, not the dark sludge I see coming out of other skimmers I see.>> >Agreed re the apparent "lower-efficiency" of this unit< My tank inhabitants are a pair of Percula Clowns (1 - 2.5" and 1 - 1.25"), a 3-4" Blue Regal Tang and a 3" juv. Imperator Angel. I know this tank is small for the tang and angel but I am about to upgrade to a 130 gallon system that a friend no longer wants. Those 4 fishes in a 55 shouldn't be considered overcrowding especially with the tang and angel being so small/young. Or is it? <Is... way too crowded... psychologically and appears physiologically> <<Is 4 small fish "way too crowded?" They show no signs of stress and they never fight. They show to be very well adjusted to each other socially. I can easily see it becoming the way you describe as they grow, but it isn't that way now, and that's why they will be in a 130 gallon in hopefully 2-3 months from now to avoid it from ever being that way. Everything written about how to tell a good species from a bad one, my fish currently show all of the good traits. Take it as a compliment, I used your advice and teachings to select the fish I wanted vs. an unhealthy fish, how to spot a good dealer/LFS and how to take proper care of them. I try my best and have had a failure or two. Also, territory doesn't seem to be an issue either. The 2 clowns have their little spot but the tang and/or angel kind of hang out with them sometimes and never so much as a spat. Maybe this is because they are still young.>> >Yes... the large Pacific Angel will outgrow the 130 as well< Last week I saw some Cyano growth on the LR. I did a massive water change, and a few small ones as well as up the circulation to get rid of any dead spots. I added a powerhead to shoot water through the center of the tank. Other than the fishes taking turns to play in the current, I don't see any changes. I usually don't feed too much either to keep the wastes down. I added some "Red Slime Removal" powder <A poor idea... Please read here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/maralgcidefaqs.htm> <<Thanks for the link. I was doing ok until this next part... Or at least I think so anyway>> and I saw a noticeable reduction in the Cyano. <Just recycled... toxic> I am still not sure that I did the right thing adding that directly into the tank. Now, it is all back <Yep> and my ammonia levels have gone through the roof. <Ditto> <<When I added the powder solution, I really didn't know what to do. I am not using it as an excuse, but I was just at a loss. I did the water changes, added extra circulation, even extra filtration to battle the nitrites/nitrates and ammonia, my water parameters were ok (at the time) and this red slime crap just wasn't going away. I am thinking about taking all of the rock out and putting it in a separate container like a Rubbermaid Tub and starving it. Similar to what one should do if a case of crypt brakes out and letting the tank run fallow. Right now I have the fishes in the QT. I decided to just take the 55 down for good. A friend wants it, and I am about to move and get a bigger tank. This crisis actually happened at a good time as bad as it sounds.>> >Mmm, please do take the not-so-long read on WWM re Cyanobacteria control... there are other very useful avenues for you to consider< I have been checking my ammonia levels daily and it continues to look worse. A level of 0 should show the color in the test tube to be a whitish yellow. Yesterday it was close to a teal color. Yes, teal color. I use the API Master Kit that everyone carries in their store. My fishes show little to no signs of stress, (if anything they look as healthy as can be, and eat like a pack of starving wolves) but I don't like the idea of them swimming in (supposedly) nasty water. Also I used AmmoLock for the first time and the label said the tests might show an increase of traceable ammonia levels but in a non toxic form that isn't distinguished by the tests. <Not a good idea either...> <<Is AmmoLock just a bad idea period? I usually use StressCoat to condition the tap water. I tried this one instead since it advertised helping out with the ammonia levels. I only added it like a supplement when I saw how high the ammonia level had risen just to do anything to detoxify the situation long enough to get my QT up and running at an acceptable level. You're right, this probably wasn't the best idea either. If this happens again, any advice?>> >The use of this and other "anti-ammonia" chemical treatments are only quick stop-gap measures at best... they introduce other poor trade-offs and do absolutely nothing to ensure avoiding further troubles< Did something all of a sudden go terribly wrong or is it the AmmoLock? <Can't tell from here...> I usually use StressCoat and Kent Ammonia Detox as tap conditioner. I use Oceanic Salt. <I would look for another salt brand. See WWM re> <<Really? I will definitely look into it. I remember hearing that it had a batch with phosphate issues. Sounds like it is much more than that.>> >Yes... a poor, inconsistent product< Maybe my tap water is the problem. <That too?> <<Hey, it is city water... I know how wastewater treatment plants work for city water supplies.>> >Heeeee! Don't we all?< Do I need to get my QT fired up and throw them in there until this is resolved or is this something fixable in the near future? <... see WWM re Ammonia, Cycling... I would not feed these animals if ammonia is approaching 0.5 ppm> <<I have been reading on it, trust me. My internet time is really limited, so I can't get to everything that I need to see a lot of the time. I think QT may be the best idea since the main tank is obviously very toxic and I didn't want to use any more chemicals. >You are wise here< I just had to get the spg, ph and temp to match what they were used to. The QT ph was 8.2-8.4, spg was 1.024, amm = 0.25 (a tad high, but much better than the main tank) nitrite = 0, nitrate = 10. Temp = 78F>> The 130 gallon won't be available for a few months so that isn't an option at this time. I added some Ammonia Detox, but I know that is that like putting on a band-aid and not solving the problem. Have you heard of Ammonia levels going from around 0 to ??? <Oh yes> <<Your response is somewhat comforting, it isn't just me...>> (whatever my tests are showing) in a week's time? I just don't see how this is happening. Would adding a pack of Nitrifying bacteria help? <Possibly... see... re> I saw in the FAQ's that they may have died out and need to grow back. <Yes! The "powder"... likely bumped a bunch off, produced a physiological check> <<This really explains a lot here. As a beginner, sometimes it can be really hard to determine what will happen when foreign chemicals enter an ecosystem. I always keep in mind that the water is their life and the livestock are helpless and totally dependent on the aquarist to do anything.>> >Yes< Oh yeah, Ph is around 8.2, Nitrites are 0 and spg is 1.024. The last time I checked Nitrate was about 2 weeks ago and it read 20. Thanks for all of your help, Jeremy <Read on my friend... no more chemicals, please. Bob Fenner> <<The only chemicals I use frequently are water conditioners. >You can and should "get around" this use by pre-mixing and storing your synthetic water...< My next investment will be a good RO/De-Ionization unit. Other than that, just iodine (2 caps per month), Kent PH Buffer (2 caps a week, if needed), and Kent Essential Elements (2 caps a month). Then I do my best to leave it alone!>> <<Also, a few months back I wrote you about possibly entering the marine biology field. I will be sure to get back with you once I have better information for you. I just have too much important stuff going on to take this on as well. I really appreciate your help.>> >And I your earnest sharing. Life to you my friend. Bob Fenner< Chemically Treated My Cyanobacteria...Now In Big Trouble - 02/26/06 Bob, <<EricR here this morning.>> I have had my 75 gal tank set up for 3 years now. I have a wet/dry with a protein Skimmer, and I use Chemi-Pure regularly. About 6 weeks ago I started to have a red slime out break along with green hair algae, and this black slime it was like a blanket on the LR (which smelled). I went to my local store and they sold me red slime remover, which after treatment I changed the water 2 times (20% changes) I also removed the black slime with my hands (coming off in very large sheets). Ok so then my fish start dying. Within 2 days all fish are dead sinking to bottom of tank with labored breathing ( 4 damsels, 1 goby, 1 per. clown and a blenny.) I do water changes to no avail. I notice that my Mushrooms, and other corals are not doing well they have tighten up or not opened or are limp. So I continue to do water changes ranging from 20-50% (I figured there's nothing to lose now). I also put in Chemi-Pure and a Poly-Filter. I wait a few days and try some test damsels and within 6 hours there dead. When this all started my water was tested and everything was great all within very good levels. Or so the store told me. That day I had bought two sand sifter gobies and the next morning they were belly up in the tank. I did the last water change at 75% 3 days ago and now I am at wits end. Any Ideas? <<Mmm, yes...I think you wiped out your bio-filter when you chemically treated your tank to kill the Cyanobacteria. In addition to eliminating your tank's ability to process nitrogenous wastes, you also released toxic substances from the slime algae...I'm not surprised to hear things are getting worse. And keep in mind concerning use of these chemicals for algae control...even had it not led to these problems, the algae would have been back in days to weeks as you are not addressing the cause/source of the algae.>> There are currently no fish in tank and my corals and inverts are not happy at best. By the way we have had no sprays or air fresheners or air borne things in the home. I use the same buckets that I have always used for water changes. <<I would stop adding fish and stop doing water changes (for now) and let the tank cycle (this may take a while). You also need to relocate your corals and inverts while this happens. EricR>> Thank you Mystery Toxin? Hi guys. <Hey there! Scott F. here today!> Bob here again. Still having same problem with fish dying within 4 hrs.. Quick re-cap. Had a diatom outbreak so used Chemi-Clean to clear it up. Didn't follow instructions and made water change too late. <Uh-Oh> All parameters are within limits but silicates are slightly high tank is 34 gal with BakPak skimmer and refugium. 7 " DSB and 35-40 lbs of rock. Water is RO/DI. Since the problem started I have changed out 100% of the rock and sand. I acclimate the fish by floating the bag to adjust the temp first and then switching out a little water every 15 min. Since putting the new rock in all bristle worms have died. <An interesting "side effect", huh?> Is there any place here in No Cali to get the water tested and if so what should I look for??? <I'm not sure of the chemical composition of Chemi-Clean, so I can't even hazard a guess! My suggestion is to execute regular water changes, and use Poly Filter on a continuous basis. This stuff can really help remove possible toxins from your water! Activated carbon is good, too.> Prior to the crash things were great, Xenias, mushrooms, Colts and Sarcophyton were thriving. I'm also using a white filter pad in the water flow that u guys highly recommend for removing toxins etc. (Forget the name right now). and it took weeks to change color to a light tan. Poly Filter is the name. <Yep! That's the stuff! Love it...!> Any ideas or help would be greatly appreciated as this has been going on for about 4 months now. Again, as usual, thanks for your help. You guys are great. <Thanks for the kind words! I think that the suggested water changes and continuous use of chemical filtration media is the way to go. Hang in there! Regards, Scott F> Ammonia... killing off one's biofilter Mr. Fenner, Thanks for all your help in the past. <Welcome> I have been battling ammonia the past couple weeks, and I lost a lot of fish. <Mmm... what are fishes doing in such water?> I seem to have gotten it under control today. I have had my tank setup for about 6 months. I suddenly got a tremendous (off the scale) ammonia spike that I could do nothing to fix immediately. <From?> I don't understand. I'm thinking I might have somehow caused new tank syndrome. I did replace my CPR BakPak skimmer with an ETSS reef devil, but the downward spiral started a couple days before that. I did keep my biomedia from the old skimmer and put it in a ventilated container and floated it in my sump. I don't know if that would do any good anyway. <Should have> Somehow, I think I killed off all the beneficial bacteria. <I agree... or overwhelmed the system with proteinaceous material... did someone toss in a bunch of food... might an animal have died and you not caught it?> I was reading all the posts and I think it was from excessive vacuuming of the DSB. it was so dirty though. I wanted your opinion on this observation: Immediately after 2 ammonia spikes settled down, the deep sand bed was covered in a rusty brown substance. That's what I vacuumed away. Is there any correlation between this "stuff" and the ammonia level going back to zero? <Yes... the brown stuff are likely diatoms, other algae... that need the ammonia to be gone, nitrate (product) to flourish> It's just odd that the sand is white, and my ammonia is through the roof, and then finally the ammonia is gone, and instantly the sand is brown. Well, I still have 1 dogface puffer and 1 striped damsel left, and I don't want to go vacuuming if its gonna finish them off too. I'm really surprised they made it. My ammonia scale only goes to 2, and it was definitely way over that! <Yikes> Also, what do you think about Chemi-clean? It's supposed "removes disease causing red Cyano bacteria, oxidizes trapped organic sludge and sediment. Chemi Clean also clarifies aquarium water to crystal clear and promotes ideal enzyme balance." <... not a good idea... Please read here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/maralgcidefaqs.htm> I started having the troubles when I added this in conjunction with B-ionic Calcium Buffer, and Ruby Reef Kick Ich. <Oooohhhh... This is the source of your trouble... you actually killed off your nitrifiers...> I think maybe it all had some unknown effect. <Yes, for sure> I read something on your site about one of these effecting pH, which might affect ammonia? Thanks for your time, I read your posts daily. B. Robinson <The "Clean" product... kills microbes... including your beneficial bacteria... the "kick" product does nothing (but flavor food), the B-ionic is a fine product (for pH, alkalinity). More study, less chemicals my friend. Bob Fenner> Major Hair Algae Problem Thank you for your prompt reply. So basically, besides stop adding the supplements, there is not much more I can do? <Yes, doing a 10% water change weekly helps much.> I have read mixed reviews about using medication to treat Cyano (e.g. UltraLife Red Slime Remover, Boyd's Chemi-Clean and Kent Marine's Poly Ox).> What do you guys think about them? <I think they work, but it's just a Band-aid. You can use it to initially kill it, but you have to go after the cause. Generally, high organic levels will cause this due to overfeeding/overstocking the tank. Keep using the Chemi-Pure. Most people go through this phase especially if the tank is newly set up. You will win the battle with good husbandry and careful feedings along with the water changes. It just takes time. Good luck. James (Salty Dog)> Red ??? infestation... chemical Algicide troubles Mr. Fenner, <Bob, it's Bob, please> Okay, I am stumped and am turning to you. Basics, 80 gal marine tank, 110 watts power lights, 15 gal bubble sump, protein skimmer; primarily fish only with 100 lbs live rock, coral sand, temp 78 (25 c), pH 8.2, phosphate < .02, hydrom.. 1.020. Critters powder blue tang, French angel, flame hawk, coral beauty angel, snowflake eel, cleaner shrimp and arrow crab (none the worse for wear). <Yikes... going to be very... too crowded in time> Problem, a red something is propagating at and alarming rate; covers sand, rock, acrylic every 24 hours. <Heee... a good description> This is exactly the color of red slime but has none of the sheeting characteristic of slime. Rather, it is like a fine powder. It is readily removable by use of a paper towels. It will hold to the paper towel but have trouble not having it "cloud" in the tank. Brief history, tank was in perfect condition, all critters doing fine. Had a small red slime problem in that it began to show on the sides of the tank about 4 days after water changes. Started to use UltraLife Reef Product's red slime remover about a month ago. This worked remarkably well. <Uhh, that's what you thought...> Exit me on a business trip three weeks ago and my son takes over. Begin to use store bought water instead of home mixed to safeguard against son making an error. Over the course of two weeks this red stuff starts to show up. Discontinue use of the red slime remover. Two corals die, one a pulsing xenia, and the other from a similar family. Came home to this red stuff. Question, what is it and how do I take care of it. Been doing lots of water changes, 5 gal every day for a week and then 10 gal twice in that time. Any ideas? Bob <Yes... the treatment has changed your system... for the worse... Discontinue trying to selectively poison your tank... the red "stuff" is actually BGA/Cyano... growing back as it may... and it and the "algae treatment" are killing your other livestock... I would change a good quarter of your water out... wait three days and do this again, gravel vacuuming, use activated carbon, and likely PolyFilter in your filter flow path... Going forward, I strongly, make that STRONGLY encourage you to NOT use direct chemical means of controlling BGA... the stuff has been here, oh, 2-3 billion years... will be here when we're long, loooooong gone. Please read here re: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/algaeconMar.htm and the links above. Bob Fenner> Red Mat Algae 12/14/04 I have a 75 gallon reef with corals and fish, 1 year old.... 300 watts of compact lighting on 12 hour cycle. I have recently had an outbreak of red algae that resembles the "typical" green algae on the live rock. <sounds like red Cyanobacteria (AKA a "BGA"... do keyword searches for these terms with the search tool on our home page> at first I thought it was Cyano algae <agreed> ... so I treated with ChemiClean several times with respective water changes. After contacting several local stores I have found that they are experiencing similar outbreaks. <this does not exclude Cyanobacteria> I use RO/de-ionized water, as do they. <hopefully aerated and buffered before use as evap or for salting... else your pH and/or Alkalinity are likely low or flat (under 8.3 pH by night and under 10 dKH?). If so, this will contribute to such nuisance algae. Get your pH soundly to 8.3-8.6 and ALK of 10-12 dKH> The algae isn't Cyano. algae, doesn't grow long, just stays "velvet like" on the rock... any ideas? <without a close detail pic or better description, my hands are tied here. Just guessing. Anthony> Chemical control of BGA how do I get rid of red slime and are the products safe for fish and inverts <Please read here: http://wetwebmedia.com/algaeconMar.htm and beyond, the articles and FAQs archived (linked, in blue, at top) on Blue Green Algae/Cyanobacteria, Chemical Controls... the use of antibiotics as algicides is NOT encouraged. Bob Fenner> Re: Red bubbles Bob <Linda> Hi, sorry to bother you again about my blue-green algae. <Not a bother> We did the 30 gal water change that you suggested, we changed our carbon, we used a soft brush and brushed all the red slime off all the rocks and it looked very encouraging. Then today the next day the red bubbles are all back. <Yes... simple organisms can have very fast "doubling rates"... if the conditions that allowed the BGA to proliferate have not been substantially altered it can grow right back! As you well know> I talked to a LFS today and he sold me some stuff called Maracyn. It says is made out of 200 Mg erythromycin activity per tablet. <Yes... an antibiotic first packaged and sold in the aquarium interest by Mardel Lab.s back in 1969. I was one of their technical liaisons at one time...> We have a 125gal tank and he told me to use 5 tablets every other day for 3 times. I am just double checking with you because this stuff says it is for freshwater fish, Fin and tail Rot and body fungus. Is this ok for me to use? <No... or should I state, "not really"... all the algae (and many other micro-organism groups) dying off at once can cause huge havoc in your system... including such a decline in overall water quality that you might lose all your livestock. There are several references to this posted on WWM. Start reading here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/maralgcidefaqs.htm and on to the many linked files (in blue, at top). You will find a mix of results, but one general opinion... there are better, safer ways to "treat" these situations than chemical means.>> He said he has used it for years and learned it from a biologist. Is it going to hurt my corals, and my clams?. <Very likely yes> I am so discouraged right now. Every day my algae gets worse and I will wait till I hear from use to use this stuff. Thanks Linda <Linda, please read over the article on BGA posted on WWM... seek to remedy the cause/s of your BGA proliferation here... enhanced water quality... through better skimming, chemical filtrant use (do you have excess nitrates, phosphate?), perhaps the addition of purposeful macro-algae, a better, larger means of denitrification... many roads exist for curtailing pest algae growth... chemical means are the last avenue to attempt... and are fraught with danger. Read until you understand what you are doing THEN act my friend. Bob Fenner> Dead Zoanthids - Cyanobacteria 11/5/04 Two weeks ago, I had a bad case of red slime, an F/S recommended I added Ultra Life's Red Slime Remover, so I did <Aiiiieeeee! No, please say it's not so :( This is an anti-biotic. Do look up the root definition of the term. Or, no... I'll spare you: anti-biotic: against-life Sure... it kills the Cyanobacteria... and so much more! And sadly, red slime algae is staggeringly easy to kick without hardly lifting a finger. Its all about controlling nutrients. Not allowing thawed pack juice from frozen foods into the aquarium, skimming aggressively, increasing water flow and water changes. A cure in 2 weeks or less> and it worked great. The red slime was gone but also an entire colony of zoos. The zoos closed up and are turning a dark brown should I just give on them and declare it a lost or should I just wait and see? How do you even know when a zoo is completely dead? William <water changes, good water flow and time/patience my friend. And please do read through our archives on BGA/Cyanobacteria/Red Slime Algae my friend. So much info. Anthony> Adding buffer, and ridding algae. Hi, Hope all is going well for all of you there. I have several questions please. First, I have read on your website that when preparing saltwater in a container for water changes the ph buffer should be added before the salt mix. Why is this? It seems it should be just the opposite as the buffer is for saltwater. << I don't add buffer to my mixed salt water. But if I did, I would be like you and add it after mixing the salt mix. I'm unsure of why someone told you otherwise, they may have a good reason but I haven't heard that before. Maybe they meant you add the buffer to your freshwater, before you add the freshwater to your tank as top off water. That I agree with. >> Also, I have read a couple of articles about people using hydrogen peroxide to treat algae in freshwater aquariums. Do you know if this if feasible in saltwater and if so what would be the dosage? << No I wouldn't do that. First, because I don't think you should be trying to kill algae... it is the greatest! Plus, if you do have an algal problem, I think there are many "natural" ways to take care of it. >> What about barley straw extract in saltwater? << It would be better to describe what kind of algae problems you have, and then let us go from there to think of ideas. >> Thanks for your help, James << Blundell >> Product Availability Hi, I read some reviews on the website "About Saltwater Aquariums" on a product formerly called "Clean and Clear" and now "Aqua Treat". It is an algae control product and I cannot find information on it anywhere. Are you familiar with it and if so, do you know where I can purchase some? Thanks, James <Sorry, James, I am afraid I have not heard of either product. I tend to focus more on attacking algae by getting at the root cause of the problem (i.e.; nutrient excesses, etc.), so- to be quite honest- I rarely even look at products and additives as means of eliminating algae problems. You could email Stand or Debbie Hauter, who are the moderators on the "About" SW site. They are very knowledgeable and nice people, and they might be more aware of the products that you mention. Sorry I couldn't be more helpful...Hope this helps. Regards, Scott F.> James Hall Cyano Treatment Hi, <Hi Wes> A LFS suggested that I use E.M. Tablets (erythromycin) to help get my Cyano outbreak under control... well I was reading through your FAQ about Cyanobacteria and I found an email in which you say that this type of treatment can take out the entire livestock... well this obviously scares me. <I can see why.> Being skittish to start with I only placed 1 200MG tablet in my 55g tank, I figured if I saw a difference then I would take action accordingly from there. However if this is very risky then I certainly will discontinue this course. <I have to say that way back when I did a treatment with Erythromycin, and really had no bad effects from it. The problem is that it kills bacteria and doesn't discriminate between good bacteria and bad bacteria.> I doubt the 1 tablet I added would have any detrimental effects on my system I hope, since a normal dosage is suggested to be 1 200mg tablet per 10 gallons. <Its definitely a low treatment but I also don't think it would be enough to make a difference.> At any rate I would appreciate your opinion/knowledge. <In my opinion if you have exhausted all other remedies and you are at your wits end it would be okay to do a treatment with Erythromycin. I personally wouldn't do more than a half treatment in the hopes that it would take out most of the bad and leave a lot of the good. But there are multiple other things that you can do to treat Cyano. I personally have good luck dosing Kalkwasser, and cutting way back on the feedings.> Also I do have to point out that I thought at first I just had brown diatoms, as what I have is more of a dark brown rather than a reddish color... http://home.stny.rr.com/oneofakind/greenmushroom.jpg there is a picture of some of it on my LR, can you confirm that it is indeed Cyano? <Hard to tell from a picture but does it have bubbles underneath it? Does it feel like its coating the existing rocks and sand? Is it nasty and slimy? In all honesty just from the picture looks to me like diatoms.> And again on a side note, the black arrows pointing to what I now know is a type of Caulerpa are there because I was showing the pic trying to figure out what it was awhile ago. <I have to say it looks like a type of Halimeda to me. You do know the red plant next to it is definitely Caulerpa? Let me recommend that for an exact identification you go to www.algaebase.org.> Now that I have gotten past my ignorance I realize that although I like those little mushroom looking things, they can be quite risky to keep! The colony has almost tripled in size since that photograph, I want to rip it out but I have a couple of concerns. First of all I'm afraid that it is taking up a lot of nitrates itself and if I remove it altogether the Cyano will become even worse. <That is possible but depending on the amount there I don't think its going to take all that much out from your tank.> Secondly is it true that removing it may cause its cell wall to burst and therefore release toxins? <It could possibly release nitrates or organics back into the tank if you do it in the tank. My suggestion might be to do any kind of pruning etc in a bucket and not in the tank. Then throwing that water you used away.> Or can it be safely removed if done gently without removing the rock that it is on from the tank to do so? <Honesty Wes when I prune Caulerpa from my refugium I just pull it out. Have to say its probably not a pretty site.> Your help is appreciated! thanks, Wes - Former Crew Member Reports Back From Beyond - I know you guys don't usually recommend products like this but I have to share my experience with you and your readers. <Thanks Ronni, good to hear from you.> I have many tanks but only a problem in 2 of them, my 10g salt and my 60g planted freshwater Tetra tank. Both of them had serious hair algae problems. In my 10g SW the hair algae was literally covering my rocks so much that you couldn't see them, choking out my Caulerpa, and even clogging my trickle filter if I didn't pull it once a week or so. I ran every water test I could think of and all of my levels were exactly where they should be. I tried a PolyFilter, I tried PhosGuard, I tried Essential Elements, I tried daily water changes, I tried different lighting periods, I tried less feeding, and everything else I could think of. Finally at my wits end I ordered some Algone. When it arrived I placed one of the pouches in the filter of my tank. Within a few hours (yes, hours) I noticed a brownish tinge to the ends of the hair algae. The next day it was a bit more brown, the next week it was thinner, and each day after it has gotten even thinner until now (about 3-4 weeks later) there's only a small portion of what was originally there. I kept a very close watch on my fish and my Caulerpa during all of this and figured at the first sign of stress I would remove the Algone and do a major water change. My fish never showed any stress, the opposite happened! Their colors improved, their appetites were as big as ever (I have 2 very small Clowns that never want to stop eating!), and they were swimming out in the open more. My Caulerpa went back to being the bright green it originally was instead of a pale green, and I also noticed an increase in coralline algae growth (not growing where I wanted it to but hey, at least it was growing!). In my 60g FW planted tank the hair algae would form a cloud that my fish would get tangled in and it was choking out my plants. Again, I tried many different things to solve the problem but none seemed to work. So I placed one pouch of Algone (1 pouch treats up to 55 gallons) in there and let it go for a week. I didn't see it slow the hair algae growth at all. I added another pouch figuring one wasn't quite strong enough. After another 2 weeks I'm still seeing major growth. I let it go for the 2 weeks but it finally got so bad it was driving me nuts and day before yesterday I pulled a baseball sized clump out. Oh well... I was really disappointed that the Algone didn't work in my FW tank but after seeing how well it worked in the SW tank I wouldn't hesitate to recommend it to anyone who has a SW hair algae problem! Ronni <Thanks for sharing. Again, good to hear from you. Hope all is well. Cheers, J -- > More Cyanobacteria - 2/20/04 I have recently had a problem with red slime....actually looks more like black fur. <Blue green Cyanobacteria is a real nuisance.> I was advised to use Chemi-Clean which I did. <Never heard of it. I highly recommend against these remedies as they usually nuke the tank of nitrifying bacteria and in some to most cases kill your fish and invertebrates. The issue usually arises from lack of a proper maintenance regime, lack of water circulation and turnover, or maturation of a newly established tank. (can take up to 9 months) 75G tank 4 months old. <Ahhhhh....see?> There are sparse instructions with the product. <May need to contact the manufacturer of the product or talk to the person who advised you to use it in the first place> It says to wait 48 hours and retreat if necessary. My question is, how do I know if it needs retreated? <I have no idea> Will all the gunk disappear if it worked or will that residual stay until I vacuum it out and do a water change? <I would do both vacuum it out and do a 20% water change. Use a poly-filter or high grade carbon to extract the rest of the product. Increase your water change regimen and watch your feeding technique. Read through our FAQs and articles on algae control. http://www.wetwebmedia.com/bluegralgae.htm Thanks for your question ~Paulo> Thanks. JJ Re: Hydrogen Peroxide question Bob: I recently came across a note saying that dosing a tank with 1ml of H202 per 50g was an effective treatment for Cyano - your thoughts? (I am aware of the natural ways of this - nutrient export, not overfeeding, etc. - just wondering about the plausibility of this) <Mmm, hydrogen peroxide (and other peroxides) are used in different applications in pet-fishing as well as aquaculture, but have not heard of this one. Don't see quite how it would kill the Cyano unless it was to "stay around" for more than the few minutes it is likely to. Bob Fenner> Xeones Re: use of antibiotics Hi, I have been facing some troubles with hair alga, due a change (decay) in my water circulation, It is not the first time and when I improve the situation in a few weeks hair algae disappear. It is amazing how fast the problems become and how slow they disappear, ok, to much bla, bla , my question is, there is a product (antibiotic, I cant remember the name) <Erythromycin, sold variously as Maracyn...> offered to fix the hair algae problem, they said is reef safe, but... it is really true, what problems I can expect? <That the root cause (likely excess nutrients, lack of predation, competition...) will not be addressed, possibly crashing your system by the rapid decomposition of the affected organisms... Please read here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/avoidingalgaeproblesm.htm and the linked (in blue, above) files. Bob Fenner> Greetings Carlos Re: copper and algae Hi, I have heard you can put a copper ring in a fountain to prevent algae. Would this be safe in an aquarium? Would it harm the fish? Thank You, Gay A. Nixon <Hi Gay, no, a constant copper level would be unhealthy to deadly for fish. There is also no way to know what constant dose the fish would be exposed to. Copper use in aquaria is usually limited to antiparasitic treatment in a separate quarantine tank. If you have an algae problem, look to excessive feeding and wastes in your system, perhaps due to inadequate or under-maintained filtration, coarse substrates collecting wastes, inadequate water changes, or wastes in source/replacement water. Solve the nutrient issue and the algae will go away. Hope this helps! Craig> Reef tank (algae control) Mr. Fenner, I appreciate your continued help and all you do for the marine aquarium hobby. <Ah, everyone needs to feel important. I am glad to be so here> I once again need your expert advice. I'm beyond frustrated with my reef tank. I currently have an outbreak of ich, and have moved my fish to a quarantine tank, and am lowering the salinity and temp to attempt to clear it out. (right track?) <Yes> but the ich I can deal with. my biggest problem is algae. we finally got our live rock about 50% covered with coralline algae, then it was suddenly (in approx. 1 week) taken over by what looks like a carpet-like green and brown algae. I clean it off the glass weekly, but it comes back full strength by the end of the week. I can't figure out a way to get it off the rocks at all. any advice would be greatly appreciated. <Have you read through the mass of materials on algae causes/controls posted on our site? Please start here: http://wetwebmedia.com/algaeconMar.htm See all the blue colored links above? I know they're a bunch of them. Do read through these> one final question. have you ever heard of "reef vital DNA, enhanced reef life energizer" by marc Weiss companies, inc.? we got it because it says it enhances coralline algae growth. I have been using it steadily (as directed) for over a week. could this stuff be encouraging my algae growth? any ideas? <This product is trouble. Discontinue it, return it and demand a refund. It is helping the algae problem almost assuredly> sorry this email was so long, but I have so many questions, and you're a fountain of knowledge on this subject. thanks again!! Tracy <No worries my friend. Study. Bob Fenner> Algae solution? (Note: add URL to links) Dear Mr. Fenner, We have not made an active move on the algae situation yet, hope to finalize the decisions soon. <I'll bet... "Wax on, wax off"... those kung fu lessons have got to be getting old... I assure you a "blue stone"/copper sulfate solution is your best route...> Meantime have I received the information below from a friend of mine in Tampa. He's been looking around a bit for me and came up with a company that deals with these things apparently. I would greatly appreciate your thoughts on that. Hope you have finished moving, have moved many times myself and hated it every time. <In progress as we key... am hiding upstairs for a rest...> Regards, John From: Sparky Brennan To: John Brokaar > The people from the chemical company responded finally yesterday. After their research, they have come to the same conclusion that you have. They recommend a product called K-tea. It is also a Copper/hydroxide Algicide. It is used in livestock, golf course , crop type applications. It is mixed a ppm in the situation that you described. This means 1 1/2 gallons for the entire 1.5 million gallon tank should solve the problem. They indicated that the walls would still have to be cleaned before using the chemical but that it should arrest the problem. The K-tea is about 40.00 per gallon. I have a material safety data sheet on the stuff that I will fax you if you need it. > Let me know if you need me to follow up with this John. It is hard for me to believe that 1 1/2 gallons of chemical will solve the problem but that is what the chemists have recommended. <No to this product... copper hydroxide is too "fast" toxic in marine biological systems... If you want/have to purchase a made product look to the McNabb brothers... Cutrine, Algaetrine... from Applied Biochemists... let's see if I can find their site with my engines: http://www.appliedbiochemists.com/ Need to add this to the WWM links... for sure. But I would still be making my own citrated solutions... really a huge savings... and fine for your open/semi-open systems... at a million and a half gallons to regularly treat/replace, you can really spend some money here. Bob Fenner> Re: Algae solution? This is interesting information. <Ah, yes... and an apology for not having "complete" information for you all... You can imagine my hesitancy in supplying "partial answers"> How often do we have to put the chemical in? <Almost continuously (sometimes punctuated treatments are advised) with such a large system, one that is open to semi-open... to maintain a physiological dose. For your operation, a very good idea (I wouldn't do otherwise) to adapt a probe, controller to a dosage pump to continuously monitor free cupric ion (Cu++) and be applying more with time... This is SOP in public aquariums (and even large wholesale livestock facilities) around the world... Once again, am very surprised that you folks don't have such gear (dosimetric) and operations in place... Losses due to epizootics and labor for manual algae removal are real costs... Bob Fenner> Lynn Algae Hey Bob, I have two questions about algae in my tanks. My FOWLR has a cob web like growth of a green algae across it. In some spots it has bubbles on top of it. What is it and how should I get rid of it. <Another algal form, the bubbles are just trapped gas accumulating between the colonies... see the site re control of all algae: http://wetwebmedia.com/algaeconMar.htm> In my sea horse tank I have a reddish cobweb growth over some of the sand. On some pieces of live rock and on the back wall I have the same algae with the bubbles I have in my FOWLR. What should I do to get rid of these algaes and will they harm anything? <Again, read through the site... for here re BGA, or Cyanobacteria. Bob Fenner> Thank You, Jonathan Pac Re: Algae in Saltwater pool Dear Bud / Mr. Fenner & All, I definitely agree with you on giving it a try. I don't know where the chemicals could be purchased but this could be found out I guess. Injection would have to be on one [or all] of the 3" inflow lines. According to Mr. Fenner it could not be done on the suction side of the pump as the metal parts of the pump could be damaged by the copper sulphate. As to the rapid exchanging of the water- here's a "stupid" thought: would it be possible / feasible to re-circulate part of the water through a filtration process of sorts? I think Patrick should spend some time on the math's and designs and let us know what he thinks. Regards, John <John, the "blue stone" (copper sulfate pentahydrate) and citric acid can be purchased from most any large chemical supply company (is a strong oxidizer... so heed: http://wetwebmedia.com/cuusepnds.htm the concerns listed here. The cost of preparing and feeding this stock into your systems is tiny compared with the labor and drudgery of wiping it down... and the copper solution doubles as an epizootic preventative! Bob Fenner> Re: Algae in Saltwater pool Good morning Mr. Fenner, Our mails just crossed, good to see I'm not the only one working on a Sunday. Once again, I want to thank you for your help and input. Enjoy the rest of the weekend, John <This IS the enjoyable part of the weekend (hmm, the entire week)... Off to make shelves in a bit (moving). Chat with you soon John... Your algae woes are soon to be a bad memory. Bob Fenner> Re: Algae in Saltwater pool John and all, My thoughts on the copper sulfate injection is we should try it, although Patrick had mentioned that perhaps our inflow was too rapid for such a small drip at the inflow site. Is it possible to drip in at one of the actual inflow outlets as a trial? perhaps one of the 3 inch lines? If this works we may want multiple smaller drips at all the locations where the water enters the pool, not where the water enters the pump. <There are dosimetric pumps that can be linked with real time measures of concentration in your main systems... Look at the "Neptune" and "Aquadyne" links on our site (www.WetWebMedia.com) and contact them for guidance. Bob Fenner> Ignorantly yours, Bud Re: Algae in Saltwater pool Brokaar wrote: > The types of algae we have, initially were green grass type, now we also have the brown slime type. Fenner wrote: > <Need more specifics... Please read through our site (www.WetWebMedia.com on Marine Algae)> Brokaar responds: Looked at your site- [must say very detailed and very impressive] Algae in question are the Green "string" Algae as well as Diatoms and Dinoflagellates <A good mix for sure> Brokaar wrote: > In your question about hypochlorite solutions- which I presume is similar to standard chlorine? > <Yes> > No we have not tried as we felt due to the water being replaced every 13-14 hours or so. Fenner wrote: > <Hmm, a standard material with many marine mammal displays...> Brokaar responds: We realize that but we recirculate the water back into the ocean. <Can be easily treated with ferrous sulfate to neutralize the chlorine (to ferric chloride...) Brokaar wrote: > Also, how would this affect fish life? Fenner wrote: > <Yes, a general biocide... Are there fishes in with your marine mammals? You > might consider citrated copper solutions... making them yourself of > copper sulfate pentahydrate, citric acid and clean water... and using a > dosing pump to keep up a physiological does (about.03 ppm)...> Brokaar responds: 1. Should the original dosage be about .3ppm or about 190 Gallons in our 1,500,000 Gallon pool? <Yes> 2. .03ppm would be about 20 Gallons for physiological dose afterwards- every how often would you recommend? <If new water is being added constantly, best to add with it... by way of dosimetric pump... or at the least twice a day pulsing doses following testing for free cupric ion concentration> 3. In what ratio should the copper sulphate, citric acid and clean water be mixed? <Hmm, about ten percent citric to the CuSO4(H20)5... What sort of stock solution do you want to make?> 4. What would be the best method for inserting the copper solutions into the pool- a. insertion through the pump system? b. manual spreading over the surface of the pool? <Are the pumps impellers, shafts and volutes non-metal? Can be fed through them... otherwise better inject into discharges (after pumps) last choice is to broadcast.> Once again Mr. Fenner, thanks for you willingness to help us. <Wish we could make this all go faster... and that I knew you better... You can appreciate my misgivings about not relating "a/the whole picture" to you... Do you have Noga's most recent work on Fish Disease? There are formulations there for making copper sulfate solutions, their use... I can't encourage you enough to go visit some other facilities... There is a hobby conference near the Baltimore Aquarium two weeks hence: http://masna.org/M13/index.htm I will be there, and you could tour, chat with the folks who administer that facility... Bob Fenner> Best regards, John Brokaar More questions from Portugal (Algae Control...) Dear Mr. thank you for your attention. I have my live rock and substrate coated with red and green filamentous algae.NO3 and PO4 is zero now. I try Azoo AlgaeAway, Aqualine Antired and Azoo PhosphateRemover without results. Now I try 20 snails,2 Mithrax crab,10 hermits and 3 Brittlestars. If I try Phoszorb or Phosguard to eliminate silicates I will have results? Thanks, Nelson. <Hmm, please read over the "Algae" and "Algae Control" sections on our site: www.WetWebMedia.com And stop pouring in these algicides... you need to find the net, root causes of your algal proliferation and solve them... not fight their effects. Bob Fenner> Re: Lighting and Algae Thanks for the quick response Mr. Fenner. I have an additional query I'd like to make. <Okay> As I mentioned previously I have a DSB of very fine sand. I'm concerned that the sand may be too fine. My NO3 level is 0ppm but I've noticed some areas where the BG algae seems to be more persistent, as well as a couple of areas, usually near the edge of the sand bed, where the sand appears somewhat grayish. These areas are always small, usually about the size of a quarter, and there are never more than 2 or 3. My current solution is to stir up the area until it is gone. Should I be concerned about this. <No, of minimal import. I would do as you state. Periodically stir, lightly vacuum about these areas... And possibly beef-up circulation, aeration, add some/more biological stirrers...> I've read about anoxic situations on your FAQ but am not sure if this is what is going on. Would it be a good idea to purchase some larger grain substrate (10-20 lbs) and mix this into my current sand bed? <One approach> Should I increase the circulation I currently have (mentioned below)? <Yes> Would some sand sifters/stirrers be beneficial to my system? <Hmm, yes> Since I'm solely responsible for the life-forms in my care I want to be sure they are safe and sound. Thanks for the time! <Thank you for writing. Bob Fenner> Algicides of any/all sorts Hey Bob, I have one more question for you. Recently my mechanical filtration was interrupted for about a week. It had some phos Zorb in there to keep phosphate levels down. It seems a side effect of this is that I have some pretty nasty hair algae growing now. Is there any product or action that you would recommend to help me get rid of the hair algae ( it is all over my live rock). I was considering invertebrate friendly algaecide but I was kinda worried about using it. Any feedback is greatly appreciated. Thanks Ryan Rymer < Ixnay on the Algicidenay. No, Ryan don't stoop to chemical means of controlling the nuisance hair algae! Sheesh, my young acolyte, you know better. Do consider a biological helper. Maybe a lawnmower blenny (Salarias, Atrosalarias) or Tang (Zebrasoma and/or Ctenochaetus genera)... but let's not mention the other route again, okay? Bob Fenner, who is calming down now> Shortcuts... not advised I HAVE A 130 COLUMN REEF TANK. I HAVE A VERY BAD CASE OF HAIR ALGAE. IT COVERS ALMOST ALL SURFACES THAT FACE THE LIGHT. I HAVE 2- 3' SHOW LIGHTS. I HAVE BEEN FIGHTING WITH THIS PROBLEM FOR APROX. 6 MO. I HAVE TRIED SALTWATER MARACYN (EVEN THOUGH YOUR NOT SUPPOSED TO) I HAVE GONE THRU 6 OR 8 DOZEN SNAILS & CRABS, MY PROBLEM GETS WORSE. WHAT CAN I DO??? ?!?!?! MITCH < Mitch, need to know much more about your system to give you positive direction, but I would not use the Erythromycin... and there is something(s) out of whack for you to be having this problem after six months. Do you have much live rock? You need more light... especially if you intend to keep photosynthetic life... Are you overfeeding? What sort of chemical readings do you have? Any appreciable phosphate? What sort of filtration/circulation and maintenance routine? Take a long look at the articles/subjects that touch on these questions at wetwebmedia.com and get back with me. Bob Fenner> Alkalinity Can lowered alkalinity lead to unwanted algae
blooms? <Indeed... this is beyond you! Yes... both biominerals
AND alkalinity are vital for a healthy reef microcosm. Bob Fenner, your
acolyte> Tank Specs:45 Gal (long & shallow tank), 2-55 watt sub
compact actinic bulbs, 1 48" fluorescent aqua-glow bulb, sump
style wet-dry filter, small Skilter filter do not use the skimmer
portion), protein skimmer in sump, use only RO water. Water tests good
for nitrates, ammonia, calcium, phosphates about (1.0). Tank has been
set up for about 6 months now. Use nature reef reef complete and
strontium. Tank is all live rock, soft corals, inverts, and 3 small
clowns. My Problem: About 11:00 am every day (1 hour before lights come
on) there seems to be an algae bloom or something. Water is sparkling
first thing in the morning and clears up about 9:00 pm at night. What
could be causing this, and what can I do about it? Would a uv
sterilizer be a good addition? Does a sterilizer raise water temp.
much? <Hmm, an algae bloom about mid-day, with high phosphate?
Sounds like the Sun may be shining on to your tank right about this
time. If so, do what you can to shade it from old Sol. Additionally, I
would use some activated carbon about once a month (in a Dacron bag in
that Skilter hang on the back filter probably) to help out with
removing the phosphate... and check your foods, feeding to discover
where this essential nutrient and algae booster is coming from. Some
macro-algae in your sump and/or main system would really help
out-compete the transient algae as well. Now, as to the Ultraviolet
Sterilizer question: Yes, zapping the free-floating algae and spores
would put a good end to them... but the nutrients would likely be
diverted into some non-free-floating algae types (ones stuck on the
tanks surfaces, the substrate...). A twenty watt unit (about two feet
long) would raise your water temperature minimally... likely you
wouldn't detect any difference. A UV would do a bunch more good
indirectly in improving your water quality, discouraging algae as well.
My last suggestion for this situation is to clean, and keep clean your
protein skimmer's collection cup and contact chamber... this will
greatly improve its efficiency. Bob Fenner>
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Better to go nutrient control, competition and biological control route by far.
