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Sump Design Question - 03/12/07 Dear
Crew: <Paul> I apologize in advance
for the lengthy question but I have read through the FAQ's and
articles but I need an expert opinion. My wife forbid me
to get a bigger tank until we move into a larger house (5 years
from now) but she didn't say I couldn't add a sump.
<Heeee! You sneaky devil you> My tank is 30 gallons and is
36"x12"x16". I have two
designs #1 is a single sump design, and #2 is a two sump
design. My concern with design #1(about 20-25 gallons)
is too much flow through the refugium I would like to move around
200 GPH through the sump which is more than the recommended 5-7x
turnover. <A valid concern... overcome by either
design/bypass... or the possibility of two sumps... one as a
refugium> I am trying to achieve a 15x turnover in the display,
in addition I would use a powerhead in the display to create
opposable flow and a loc line on the return.
Design #2 would be about the same volume total
but I am worried that drilling 4 holes in the back of the tank
would weaken the back panel. <Mmm, no... not if done/spaced
"properly"> It would eliminate the use of a powerhead
in the display but again it would put a lot of flow through the
refugium. The single overflow into each sump seems to be
a disaster in the making if one of the overflows becomes blocked
somehow. I could run the returns over the lip and use
all four holes as overflows but I would rather not unless
recommended. <Depends on size/diameters... with good
screens... blockage is not such an issue>
I have read about the overflow stands that
can be placed in tanks but in a 30 gallon it would take up way too
much room and I don't like the look. <Me neither> I want
to do all this to my tank to prepare for a larger tank in the
future and I figure make the mistakes now. <Let's avoid them
altogether, eh?> I'm looking to provide pods and food for my
scooter dragonet (who eats Mysis) and a Protula magnifica. I would
also like to bring my nitrates down and inhibit algae growth in the
display. <All good goals and achievable here> I know I should
wait for a reef ready tank but I want to try drilling glass,
plumbing, and tinkering with my system. I want to design my future
200+ gallon custom tank (my wife think it's a 125 but I'm
pretty sure she can't calculate volume just by
looking). <Mmm, careful Abdul... you never know who
reads the Net... and it goes on forever... "Remember, thou art
mortal"> Once my larger tank is set up I could use this
tank as a quarantine tank or species specific tank (peacock
mantis). <!> This is my first attempt and I know
there are many things that I don't see so any critiques or
suggestions would be greatly appreciated, even if it is to say all
hope is lost and this design is a total failure. All
this started because: "<Mmm, and a fave suggestion... do
consider a "living sump", a refugium... for several
benefits, one of which is endogenous food production for such
filter feeders. Please read here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/refugium.htm and the linked
files above... in order... Rationale... Bob Fenner>"
Sincerely,
<I blame... myself. BobF> |
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Marine Water storage tanks --
03/09/07 Hello Crew, <Hi Mike.> I've searched the site
and I have not found a question similar to mine, so I apologize in
advance if this is a repeat. <There are some similar issues here:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/circpumps.htm> I have a 180
gallon FOWLR with a 55 gallon refugium (both with deep sand
beds). I was seeking your opinion on the use of large water
storage tanks in a setup. I have been offered a 210 gallon FDA approved
plastic water storage tank. <nice!> By virtue of
where my aquarium resides, it would be a simple matter to drill two
appropriate sized holes through my wall and keep this tank in my
laundry room (where noise is not an issue). <Convenient place to put
a laundry room!> My thought was to take the output from my sump and
pump it through a spray bar into the top of this (full)
tank. Then pump it out of the bottom back into the tank -
essentially giving me an additional 200+ gallons of water volume.
Additionally, I've thought about putting a large quantity of coarse
crushed coral in this tank for additional
buffering. Drilling a hole in the tank and adding a spigot
for fast water changes is also planned. Is this a good
idea? Are there any pitfalls that I may be missing? <The
pitfall is that pumping in and out will cause a flood when the pumps
aren't perfectly matched. This is addressed here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/plumbingmarart.htm You can
incorporate this extra tank, maybe overflow from the aquarium into the
tank, then overflow (bulkhead at appropriate height) to the
sump. Then pump back to aquarium. You can only
pump once, or you will have a mess. Levels set so that when power
fails, nothing overflows.> Many thanks for an outstanding website
<Very welcome.> Regards Mike
<Alex>
Sump advice 3/3/07 Hi there,
<Hello> > Thank you for a fantastic website
<Welcome> > I have attached a sketch of my proposed sump
and overflow plans > If I have misdirected this e-mail please
just push me in the right direction, if the pics are too poor or
incomplete please let me know <Well... I do like the proposed
overflow with the two drain lines... over the alternative with
one... You might want to search for an "in-sump" model
skimmer, rather than one that necessitates drilling the input and
return as illustrated. But all other elements seem accounted for,
reasonable in perspective> > Thank you so much <Again,
welcome. Bob Fenner>> |
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Re: Sump advice 3/4/07 My
reasoning behind the external skimmer is because of the large
footprint, I just assumed if I make arrangements for it to be
mounted externally I would not only get more water volume in the
sump, better water flow and I would not be restricted to a small
model just because my sump is small. <Mmm... I'd gladly
trade (in most cases) the added safety of having "less
stuff" that could "go wrong"... a break in a line,
less noise from pumping... and inserting the skimmer in the sump
myself...> I could remove the piece of glass that I
am currently using to direct the flow of the water to the skimmer
and just pop a skimmer in the second compartment.. agree? See
attached revision. <I do agree... do be diligent re cleaning
that mechanical media illustrated... likely at least once a
week> My second question is , with the fuge chamber
being 52x38cm, and 28cm deep ( half of which is sand )
My Q: is this size too big / too small <Never too big... and
this should be "about right" in terms of being
"enough" volume> Thanks for your valued assistance
Muz |
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Flood prevention in upstairs/downstairs display/sump
2/26/07 Hello again. <Hi, Kris. GrahamT here.>
I'm back with a new question/suggestion. I
have been entertaining the idea of adding a sump to my 55gal FOWLR
tank. <I agree with sumps. "Add volume, add buffering!" I
always say. At least, I *should* say that. That would be cool.>
The sump will be in the basement, my tank is in the living
room one floor up. <I hope you have a solid plan for this. Can be
troublesome in the early stages if not planned extremely thoroughly.
Imagine having to run up/down stairs to observe what is happening
simultaneously.> One of my hesitations about adding the
sump is the plumbing involved and the fear of flooding when something
goes wrong. <Mmm, flooding can happen regardless of
location of the sump. Actually, that's probably what you meant;
sumps introduce the possibility of flooding. D'oh!> I understand
that of the three options for getting water out of the tank siphoning
is the worst, external overflow boxes are better but still problematic,
and a drilled tank is best. <Would agree on basic
principles here, but every situation calls for a different application,
as you probably know.> My tank is not drilled, and for the obvious
reasons I will not go the route of a siphon, so I'm left with a
hang-on overflow box. <Or you could drill the tank? That aside, I
think the overflow is a solid plan. (BTW some of the systems I service
have been drilled, and still utilize a overflow, but instead of the
lift-tube that could potentially fail, we plumb directly between the
two with PVC bulkhead fittings.> That said, I understand
that, should I lose power, the sump won't flood because the
overflow box will only let a minimal amount of water into the
sump. <Right. The overflow will reduce the level in the
tank only to the point where water cannot cascade over the
skimmer-edge.> What I am worried about, however, is flooding the
display tank with sump water when the power returns and the pump
empties my sump. <Not to say that that is altogether unlikely, but
it *is* quite avoidable with some basic planning/foresight. Make sure
the overflow is designed so that the water level never goes so far down
below the skimmer-box level that the siphon is lost and you will be
alright.> However, if there were something the pump could be plugged
into that would require a manual reset to restore power to the pump
after power returns then the display tank could not be flooded from the
sump as there would be no water returning to the tank until I reset the
pump. <This is true, and there are interrupt-reset
power-supplies that serve this purpose. The only thing I would reflect
on here, is that while the pump is off, your filtration, circulation,
possibly heating, etc. are all isolated from the main display. All this
is moot if the sump pumps onto the floor though, huh?> This makes
all the horror stories of floods seem easily avoidable to
me. <I would try to avoid needing the
interrupt-reset power-supply, but it would make a great backup in case
of failure. One thing you need to have in mind when designing a system
is contingency and flexibility.> Am I missing something in the
dynamics of water flow or do you agree that what I have described would
all but eliminate flooding at either the tank or the sump? <I think
that if the siphon in the overflow is never interrupted, you won't
have to worry about the water not returning to the sump, causing a
flood. That said, insurance is the backbone of a solid dependable
aquarium. You need to feel secure that you can leave home without
placing a camera and broadcasting on a webcam that you check every
half-hour. Your idea is one more wall of security. I say, do
it!> Thanks again for your great service to this
incredibly enjoyable and sometimes challenging hobby. <You're
welcome, and thank you! -GrahamT.>
-Kris
Sump a Distance From the Tank, is
Feasible. 2/14/07 Hi there, <Hi Deryck! Mich
here.> I am thinking about putting my sump in another room about
10' away from the main tank because it doesn't fit very nicely
under the tank. <OK.> Is this going to cause me
problems? <No as long as you consider there will be a
reduction in the flow the pump produces related to the further distance
/ increased resistance.> I am looking at getting some decent size
pumps in for the returns, but would like to know if this is even
feasible? <Is feasible.> Currently I have two drains in my tank,
both 1" pipe. Thanks, <Welcome! -Mich> Deryck
Cramped in space...and time... not a Hemingway
pastiche! Skimmer fitting 2/12/07 Hey Crew,
<Adam> You guys rock, I have
been able to be very successful in having marine aquariums the last
4 years with no outbreaks and ich, etc.. Who would ever guess a
quarantine tank would save so many lives...??!??
<Yay! You and I at least...> I
have this sump in my 120 GL FOWLR and Shrimp/Snails/Hermit/Star
Fish tank. http://www.seatrademarine.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=PCA75&Category_Code=PCA
We just bought a really cute small, Yellow Eye Kole
Tang which is doing well in our old tank, a 30 gallon, that has a
aqua c remora skimmer which we use for our quarantine tank. I am
very PRO skimmer BTW. <Mmm...>
we currently have about 80 lbs of live rock and are
going to add another 40 when we introduce our new tangs (hoping to
get a chevron or another one with Kole (not same sub-species) to
separate/differentiate the current territories. <Are
conspecifics in HI...> We have approx 20 hermits, 10
snails, 2 cleaner shrimp, 1 dwarf angel and 1 false eye puffer ..
so a small bioload.. We do not have a
skimmer yet, and with the 2nd compartment of the sump being only
10x10 we are going to probably get a EV-120 with the intake
positioned directly underneath the bioballs.. <Good choice> I
will extend tube the pump for the ev120 under the bioballs chamber
and cut a hole for the tubing to go through the sponge divider
(small hole) This then would drain through the return valve via
skimmer into the same 2nd compartment which the skimmer would share
with our mag 7 pump, which would be positioned sideways in
remaining 5' area. <Okay>
The sump's 2nd compartment is 10x10 and the ev120
is 8.5 w x 4.75 pressed flat against bio-ball compartment, then the
sideways mag 7 pump 5 x 3.8 with our water heater in there as
well.. pretty tight fight but it will work.
the background info is done, now the
questions. 1. Should I 86 the
bio-balls? <I would, yes> I do not plan on having any other
inverts than current stock and they are doing great.. The bio-balls
clean stuff up and I don't think it would "hurt". We
do 10-20% water changes 1 or 2 times a month.. Only algae we are
getting is a little green hair algae on a few spots in the very
fine (less than 1 inch) sand at the bottom of the tank. I have dual
overflows pre-drilled and 2 pumps aerating water positioned at the
top left and bottom left front of the tank (fish love to swim in
the current.) <Nice to have the redundancy> 2. If
you think I should remove them, what should I put there? <Mmm,
nothing if you'd like... some rock, other calcareous
media...?> The skimmer is too tall 18' and the drains drain
directly on top of them.. (see intake in picture... right on top)
BTW: 2 overflows = 2 drains which are T into 1 for that
connection. 3. Do you think the
skimmer is even worth it even though it is getting pre-filtered
water and sits very close to the return pump? <Oh yes... very
worthwhile. Wait to you see the gunk it removes, your improved
water quality, the improvement to the vitality of your
livestock> You don't think this may get extra microbubbles
with the EV-120 and be very undesirable? <Not likely
to be an issue here> (bubbles drive me nuts)
4. Or should we bite the bullet and buy a different
retail sump with more room.... would you recommend one (not the one
you get a 10% kickback for recommending! ;) JUST KIDDING)
<Heeeee! We don't "do"
kickbacks> I think this should work as long as the
EV 120 Extension tubes do not make the skimmer less efficient...
<Marginally> Let me know what
you think, you guys have always helped me well in the past and I
owe you guys big time! -Adam
<I'd make this addition, improvement. BobF> |
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