FAQs on Thalassoma Wrasse
Systems
Related Articles: Thalassoma Wrasses,
Related FAQs: Thalassoma Wrasses 1, Thalassoma Wrasses 2, Thalassoma Identification, Thalassoma Behavior, Thalassoma Compatibility, Thalassoma Selection, Thalassoma Feeding, Thalassoma Disease, Thalassoma Reproduction, Wrasses, Wrasse Selection, Wrasse Behavior, Wrasse Compatibility, Wrasse Feeding, Wrasse Diseases,
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Bluehead Wrasse Reef Aquarium
10/9/19
WWM Crew,
<Chris>
I'm getting bored with the tank again and looking to do something different. I
have been looking through my old books (I'm old enough to have actual hobby
books) for inspiration and something you do not see
anymore today are tanks with the bigger fish. I love corals, but everything
lately is trending around the collector's sticks with little fish and I have no
interest at the moment. My current aquarium is a 110
gallon (48"x18"x30"), basically a 75g with a little more height. This current
tank has been setup as an LPS reef with Gorgonia for 4 or 5 years now and has a
harem of royal gramma, a pair of pygmy angels and a Hawkfish.
There used to be some gobies in there....but Hawkfish happened.
I would like to re-build my aquarium around a small harem of Bluehead Wrasse
(Thalassoma bifasciatum).
<Okay>
System wise, is my tank big enough?
<Mmm; barely... One male, or becoming male... perhaps 3-5 females,
juveniles....>
Could I do one male and two females? Tankmates would consist of blennies and
pygmy angels for algae control (No tangs as the tank is too small). I already
have a mated pair of cherubfish (Centropyge argi) that would stay.
Hawkfish would probably stay as my gobies' spirits can live through him.
<Ha!>
I could keep or sell the Royal Gramma harem if it is a problem with the wrasse.
<Should be okay; esp. if there's plenty of nooks, crannies>
The tank would remain Gorgonias and LPS as I like these and I find SPS to be too
finicky.
<I have a piece (art.) coming out next ish of Coral on gorg.s (along w/ one by
Felicia McCauley)>
Regarding cleanup crew, are there any snails or crabs that would be safe with
the Bluehead Wrasse. I know they generally planktivores but will also eat
shrimp, snails and stars. Are there any mobile inverts that can work in a wrasse
tank? Perhaps larger conch or Mithrax type crabs?
<I'd risk larger gastropods, not crustaceans>
Aquascaping would be live rock from Florida aquaculture with special seafloor
grade sand. What thickness would I need on the sandbed for the wrasse.
<3-4 inches of something fine/r>
Rock would be arranged to keep an open bottom as much as possible, probably
something L shaped along the bottom and tapered in height from one side to the
other.
Feeding wise, I use a liquid food blend of Mysis, Arctic Pods, Fish Eggs,
Rotifers, Oyster Eggs, etc. With the wrasse being a larger fish, I may add a
daily manual feeding of frozen mussels (or fresh oyster when in season).
<Do mix this up w/ other foods. I'd likely use a good pellet (Hikari, New
Life...) and an assortment of frozen/defrosted San Francisco Bay Brand meaty
foods>
System filtration-wise, I currently run a skimmer rated for a 150-gal tank with
UV. Since I suspect I can no longer keep a cleanup crew with the wrasse in the
tank, would an algae turf scrubber be recommended here?
<A nice addition; yes.>
Any other thoughts?
Thanks,
Chris in New Orleans
<None at this juncture. Bob Fenner>
Re: Bluehead Wrasse Reef Aquarium
10/9/19
Thanks Bob and WWM crew! Regarding the harem of Bluehead wrasse, how many cubes
of food do you think they would require daily?
<Only a part of one... maybe a quarter or so until the fish are grown>
I am a fan of the SFBB single ingredients and I usually keep mussel and the
large plankton on hand - I would supplement with the same. I do want to make
sure the turf scrubber is sized properly for the little underwater piggies. I
have kept Gorgonia for over 20 years, with it being my first coral back in 1999.
Purple sea rods will always have a place in my tank lol.
<Neat!>
I am looking forward to your article. On the inverts, I will stick with conch
then, but how would a Sally Lightfoot Crab fair (speculation is fine)?
<If/when it sheds, unless it has good hiding... might be eaten>
Finally on the substrate, I was not clear on the comment - would the Special
Grade be a good gradation (1 - 2 mm) or did I need to go finer?
<The 1-2 mm is good to use>
Thanks again, Chris
<Cheers Chris. BobF>
Just wanted to get some advice regarding a Thalassoma
duperrey. Comp. 2/1/12
<Ahh. A fave endemic from HI>
I have a
90gal FO tank with a good amount of free swimming
space. Do you think I am "pushing it" by adding this
6" wrasse to my tank?
<Mmm, possibly. What else is stocked here?>
His tailfin alone is around 2" (including long point
tips). So I'd say his body is about 5" or so. This
is the first (out of 3) Thalassoma wrasse that actually swims calm and
relaxed....yet alert and always "on the move". Does
this species tend to be less "rambunctious"? What do
you think? Am I providing enough
space?
Thanks,
James
<Is about mid rambunctious for the genus... Bob Fenner>
re: Hey folks.....
I have a 3" yellow tang, 2" flame hawk and 2" purple
Dottyback, 4" Harlequin tusk, and a 2.5" Kole tang....
<Should go w/ B>
re: Hey folks..... 2/1/12
And.....WOW....he is beeeauuutiful! Pictures don't do justice
in the least! He looks like a palette of monotone pastel
colors...amazing.
<Healthy individuals are fab. BobF>
... Thalassoma Wrasse, lighting...
2/3/12
Get Bob, speaking of the wrasse I am confused with the lighting.
The orange on the wrasse and the reds (oranges) on other fish are very
muted under my coral life t5 light. Should I increase the actinic
or the daylight in order to bring these colors out? Its a 10k
daylight bulb and just the standard actinic that came with the
light. I'd like to keep the intensities on the blues but
intensify the reds and oranges as well.
Thanks
<I wouldn't change the lighting. Your eyes/mind... appreciation
will adjust in time. B>
re: Hey folks..... 2/3/12
Ok, will do. Just out of curiosity though, what would you do
hypothetically, if you wanted oranges/reds to stand out in
addition to the blues?
<Apply more light in the longer wave length, shorter frequency range
of EMR that humans can register. B>
... Thalassoma Wrasse, lighting...
2/3/12
Get Bob, speaking of the wrasse I am confused with the lighting.
The orange on the wrasse and the reds (oranges) on other fish are very
muted under my coral life t5 light. Should I increase the actinic
or the daylight in order to bring these colors out? Its a 10k
daylight bulb and just the standard actinic that came with the
light. I'd like to keep the intensities on the blues but
intensify the reds and oranges as well.
Thanks
<I wouldn't change the lighting. Your eyes/mind... appreciation
will adjust in time. B>
re: Hey folks..... 2/3/12
Ok, will do. Just out of curiosity though, what would you do
hypothetically, if you wanted oranges/reds to stand out in
addition to the blues?
<Apply more light in the longer wave length, shorter frequency range
of EMR that humans can register. B>
Harem of Lunare wrasse requirements
10/5/11
Hi All,
I had a quick question. What is the minimal size tank required to have
a harem of Lunare Wrasses?
<Mmm, likely 150 gallons>
I have a 450 display with another 100 gallon sump. What's the best
number of Wrasses to have in this?
<One definitive male, a few females/undifferentiated
individuals...>
It is fairly well stocked, but I thought the harem would be neat.
<Me too... I see such groupings (where the genus Thalassoma occurs
natch) in the wild, and only in public aquariums otherwise>
Thanks,
Jim
<Welcome. Bob Fenner, out in Fiji, observing this species in such
associations most days>
re: Harem of Lunare wrasse requirements 10/5/11
Thanks for the quick response! Enjoy the Fiji's..I'll give it a
try with 3, and share the results.
<Thank you, BobF>
Klunzinger's Wrasse Question 1/12/11
Hello Crew. I ordered a Pink Faced Wrasse yesterday, but received a
Klunzinger Wrasse instead. He is now a "freebie" and they
will send me the proper fish as well. He is a good 6" in
length
<Yikes... a VERY active animal>
and looked great in the bag. After a 3 hour acclimation I placed him in
quarantine 20 hours ago.
<Take him out! I'd summarily dip/bath and place this fish in
your largest system. Something at least six feet in length>
He seems really stressed out and has been laying upright, (not on his
side), breathing heavy, with an alert look in his eyes, and in pretty
much the same area since being placed in the 40 gallon long tank.
<MUCH too small a volume>
I was wondering if this is common behavior for this fish after a coast
to coast trip from California, to my door in Michigan, or should I be
concerned here. I have the light turned off and tried once to give
him
Mysis today, without luck. The parameters in the quarantine are right
where they should be. I am also curious now that I have this fish, if
you think I will be able to keep two, Thalassoma wrasses in a 96"
x 36" x 36" system?.
<Yes>
I appreciate any advice you can give me on this issue.
Many thanks,
Howard
<Welcome! Bob Fenner>
Re: Klunzinger's Wrasse Question 1/12/11
I truly appreciate the "rapid" response Mister Fenner.
<I felt the need... "the (wait for it) need for
speed"!>
I did as you instructed and he immediately went into a dark cave in my
"show" tank (8ft long, 3 ft wide and 3 ft tall). The Wrasse
came in very "fat" but I am wondering, should I try and place
some food in his "cave" in a day or so, or do you think he
will come out on his own and eat when he is ready?.
<Oh, this Thalassoma will definitely come, be out eating w/ gusto in
time>
I have exhaustively read, and continue to enjoy your site, so I know
your take on quarantine. I was just thinking exactly what you
recommended may be an "exception", much like my new Red Coris
Wrasse was, which I why I contacted you today. The Red Coris Wrasse is
doing great, by the way, and ate right out of the bag.!
<Ah, good>
My show tank is aggressive and though I read up on the Klunzinger
Wrasse, and know he is also aggressive, I wanted to give him a little
"peace" after the long haul from the Red Sea, to California,
to Michigan, before he had to deal with the "brutes". Once
again I want to extend my heart felt thanks to you, and your marvelous
"crew" for your tireless, wonderful service you provide for
fellow aquarists.!!!. I am also a diver and take one trip a year.
<Ahh!>
I miss the ocean, but my multiple salt water aquariums take the sting
away a bit between trips. Have a great day Mister Fenner.
Many thanks.
Howard
<As many welcomes my friend. BobF>
Re Housing lots of Moon Wrasses And Not A
Hoax/Bob's Input Please 3/15/09
<Hello Karen. Please see Bob's input in double carets below.
James (Salty Dog)>
Hi James,
<Hello Karen>
My thesis is actually a scientific one. I'm isolating anti-feeding
metabolites from invertebrates and I'm using Thalassoma lunare in
my feeding assays. Also, this species of Moon Wrasse is common in our
country.
If you don't want to dive and buy it from suppliers, it cost around
30 pesos ($0.60), its pretty cheap, actually.
<All making more sense now, did not know your location as your
English does not dictate such.>
My friends are willing to lend me two other 50 gal tanks, so now I have
four. Sand and rocks? I can buy them cheap also. Since Thalassoma
lunare is a tropical fish, do I still need heating?
<Likely not in your location. They would tolerate temperatures as
low as 72F, but likely not too happy above 80F.>
I am actually worried it might die of heat, it's summer here!
<You may need to keep this in an air conditioned room.>
I need to buy a filter though. My problem is actually to keep them
alive for about 4-5 months without them killing each other or dying.
For the dividers, I need to group them for replicates, so I was
thinking to group
them even before I use them in my assay. So it's a not a good idea
after all?
<If you divide your total gallons (200) by 40 wrasses, that's
only giving them 5 gallons of space each, not nearly enough to expect
any long term success. The tanks would have to be covered, as they
would
jump, then with no escape possible, environmental stress would set in
likely leading to their demise. I'm thinking you will be wasting
your time.>
And don't worry this isn't a hoax.
<Mmm, maybe not a hoax, but not a workable plan, at least in my
mind. How about in yours, Bob?>
<<Mmm, this Thalassoma species lives in harems... one adult
male... dominant, with perhaps a few trailing females and juveniles...
I don't know of a practical way to house a bunch together in one
system w/o real
trouble. RMF>>
Thanks.
<You're welcome. James (Salty Dog)>
Re Housing lots of Moon Wrasses 3/15/09
Hi.
<Hello Karen.>
Thanks again for your reply.
<Welcome.>
I just recently found a research paper (about 10 min.s ago) describing
on how they housed Thalassoma species.
"One to two specimens of either T. klunzingeri or T. lunare were
placed in each of the 75 l aquaria supplied with flowing
seawater."
However, they didn't mention if they did it in a long-term period.
Do you think they could probably live for 4-5 months at the condition
mentioned above?
<As long as they are not adults and/or two males and you provide
good nutrition, you might have a
shot at it. Any useful observation will likely be meaningless as they
will be in a survival mode. James (SaltyHousing lots of Moon Wrasses
3/13/09
Hi WWM Crew,
<Hello Karen>
I need to house 40-50 Thalassoma lunare (moon wrasse) in an aquarium
for my thesis.
<I'm guessing you have well to do parents and/or are financially
secure.
I'm not understanding the purpose of your thesis and to inform you
that we are not in the habit of helping with homework, do not have the
time.>
I read that the minimum amount of aquarium space for a single Moon
Wrasse is 75 gal with other aggressive tank mates. If I will house just
moon wrasses in the aquarium, does the 75 gal-rule still apply?
<Yep.>
Also, I can't find information if they can eat their own kind? They
can eat other small fishes, but are they really that aggressive to eat
their own kind?
<I don't know about eating their own kind, but the
aggressiveness is more pronounced in closed systems than in
nature.>
Also, would it help if I install dividers in my aquarium, more like
having rooms or cells for each Moon Wrasse?
<You would have better luck putting five German Shepherds in a
closet.>
Currently, I have two 50-gal aquarium and I will start conditioning it
next week. Hope you could help me.
<No, I cannot help you, Mr. Fenner may inject his input here. The
whole idea sounds ludicrous to me, makes no sense.
Even if this were not a hoax, to purchase and properly house 40-50
Lunare Wrasses would cost a few thousand dollars. Three to four inch
size Lunare Wrasses are near 40 bucks each....Mmm let's see, we
have about 1800 bucks in fish, probably going to need about a 750
gallon tank along with a 3 to 4" deep sand bed for them to burrow
in, plenty of rock, heating, and a large filtration system.
We are also going to lose some money here due to deaths from
territorial issues, and to prove what? Why am I going on.
James (Salty Dog)>
Re Housing lots of Moon Wrasses And Not A Hoax/Bob's Input
Please
3/13/09
Hi James,
<Hello Karen>
My thesis is actually a scientific one. I'm isolating anti-feeding
metabolites from invertebrates and I'm using Thalassoma lunare in
my feeding assays. Also, this species of Moon Wrasse is common in our
country.
If you don't want to dive and buy it from suppliers, it cost around
30 pesos ($0.60), its pretty cheap, actually.
<All making more sense now, did not know your location as your
English does not dictate such.>
My friends are willing to lend me two other 50 gal tanks, so now I have
four. Sand and rocks? I can buy them cheap also. Since Thalassoma
lunare is a tropical fish, do I still need heating?
<Likely not in your location. They would tolerate temperatures as
low as 72F, but likely not too happy above 80F.>
I am actually worried it might die of heat, it's summer here!
<You may need to keep this in an air conditioned room.>
I need to buy a filter though. My problem is actually to keep them
alive for about 4-5 months without them killing each other or dying.
For the dividers, I need to group them for replicates, so I was
thinking to group them even before I use them in my assay. So it's
a not a good idea after all?
<If you divide your total gallons (200) by 40 wrasses, that's
only giving them 5 gallons of space each, not nearly enough to expect
any long term success. The tanks would have to be covered, as they
would
jump, then with no escape possible, environmental stress would set in
likely leading to their demise. I'm thinking you will be wasting
your time.>
And don't worry this isn't a hoax.
<Mmm, maybe not a hoax, but not a workable plan, at least in my
mind. How about in yours, Bob?>
<<Mmm, this Thalassoma species lives in harems... one adult
male... dominant, with perhaps a few trailing females and juveniles...
I don't know of a practical way to house a bunch together in one
system w/o real trouble. RMF>>
Thanks.
<You're welcome. James (Salty Dog)>
Re: Housing lots of moon wrasses
Karen, James, Bob,
With my zoologist cap on, can I just add my two-cents' worth?
Karen: if you're going to do any sort of experimentation on
animals, you need be able to demonstrate that you've controlled all
the variables. Specifically, you need to eliminate anything that might
affect whatever measurement(s) you're taking. So if you're
analyzing growth rate of wrasse as related to, say, temperature, you
need to make sure that social behaviour (crowding effects) aren't
affecting the growth rate, or that metabolite concentration in the
water isn't affecting growth rate through toxicity. You need to be
able to say that (in this case) temperature alone accounts for the
changes in growth rate you've seen, and not bullying or nitrate
poisoning. For practical reasons, most studies on fish use small
species -- guppies, gobies, sticklebacks, convict cichlids and so on --
simply because it's easier to control all the variables. That's
why we know more about these fish than whale sharks or sturgeons! If
you're specifically interested in wrasses, there is a literature on
some of the European species, for example through their use as
"cleaner fish" on salmon farms. So you might want to find out
how these fish were handled and maintained before coming up with
your own protocol. Otherwise, find some other small, cheap, available
fish that might work better. Cheers, Neale.>
Re: Housing lots of moon wrasses
Hi Neale,
Thanks for your reply. I'm not planning to do any growth rate
measurements or any of that sort. My objective is to prove that my
invertebrate have anti-feeding metabolites. How? I'll extract these
metabolites, incorporate them in a food matrix, make them look like
food pellets and see if these
pellets are palatable to the fish. My control is food pellet without
extract. As for my moon wrasse, I'll get them in just one reef
location where I'll be getting my invertebrate, to eliminate any
possible location
effect error. Also, I'm using wrasse because it's a generalist
predator of benthic invertebrates.
<Hello again. While your idea sounds workable, I still think wrasse
will be too big to make controlling the other variables easy.
You'll have enough work isolating each metabolite, determining
effective concentrations, looking for combination effects of two or
more metabolites, and so on. I'd imagine a smaller fish, like a
goby or flounder, would work much better.
For example, you could feed gobies live brine shrimp. By adding or not
adding dosages of a particular metabolite, you could determine whether
the presence/absence of that metabolite had any impact of feeding
rates. Flush the water out, starve for 24 hours, and repeat as
required. It would be easy to keep gobies in 5-10 gallon tanks, and
since they feed on small particles but in large quantities, you could
video tape their behaviour and get sufficiently large numbers of data
points to actually do some serious
statistics. Do have a look at the classic Optimal Foraging work done
using Sunfish and Daphnia; while not identical to what you're
trying to do, in terms of practicalities and statistics, I'd
imagine it would be relevant.
Cheers, Neale.>
Re: Housing lots of moon wrasses
Hi Neale, Thanks for your reply. That will be good because it would be
easier. Regarding on the concentrations, I am particularly interested
if the natural volumetric concentration of metabolites can deter
feeding of the wrasse.
<May well do for all kinds of reasons. A small amount of a
"prey" smell could indicate food, but in large quantities, a
potential predator, or at least a predator feeding. So there are likely
threshold values below which there's no response, a peak value the
elicits the strongest response, and then amounts where the response
either doesn't increase further or declines.>
For the starvation, I will not starve it, I'm doing my feeding
assay an hour after its daily feeding.
<OK. But you'll have to demonstrate why this time interval was
selected.
For zooplankton feeders like gobies, feeding likely occurs all day, and
the stomach/gut morphology reflect that; opportunistic predators by
contrast may be adapted to consume large amounts of food at one
sitting, and then may not feed for some hours, even days, afterwards.
Hence, a period that would starve species X might be simply a breather
between meals for species Y. Assuming this is an MSc or PhD-level
project, your examiners will presumably expect you to have demonstrated
the optimal period between feeding sessions to elicit the strongest
feeding responses (i.e., animals feed more, take more risks in terms of
leaving shelter, the hungrier they are).>
This is to make sure that they are just not feeding out of hunger.
<What other reason is there for feeding? Do wild animals feed simply
because food is sitting there? To feed optimally, they need to balance
the risk of being exposed to predators against the benefits of
consuming the energy source available. What you'll end up looking
at, I suspect, is not innate desire to eat, but rather, do certain
metabolites dissuade animals to feed despite being hungry.>
I actually based my methods on a paper. Please see the link
(http://people.uncw.edu/pawlikj/1995MEPSPaw.pdf)
This method is used by the same author in his other studies and when I
looked at other studies, other researchers also used this, so it's
like a standard procedure.
<Cool. It's always easiest to follow someone else's
protocol, while changing a single variable to match whatever you're
interested in. But still, be open minded: if the work has been done to
death, there's no
mileage in doing it again. But if there's a reason other
researchers could be mistaken, or if there's a factor they've
not investigated, that's how you do good science. Anyone can follow
a recipe; good cooks create their own! Cheers, Neale.>
Thalassoma purpureum 9/26/08 I am currently on
waiting list for the Surge Wrasse (Thalassoma purpureum) at my LFS,
Marine Center and Zooquatics.com. I wanted to get a better idea on
feeding, care and handling of this fish, as there is very limited info
out there, even on your site. Thank you in advance. Charles <Mmm,
needs room, clean water, vigorously moving, high DO... high RedOx...
feeds largely on small fishes and invertebrates, accepts most all meaty
fare in captivity... More here:
http://fishbase.org/Summary/speciesSummary.php?ID=5647&genusname=Thalassoma&speciesname=purpureum
Bob Fenner>
Re: Thalassoma purpureum 9/27/08 DO? <Sorry re:
Dissolved Oxygen... as you are likely aware, this species lives in
areas of high, consistent gas availability> From what I've read,
it seems otherwise to be a very hardy and unique addition to a FOWLR
system, yes? <Can be. B>
Triggerfish has become unsocial and not eating... sys.
/env. 5/2/08 Hi Crew, I've read some of your
answers to other problems (and i am definitely looking here first for
all my fish info!) but unfortunately I haven't quite got the answer
that I'm need for this situation... I have a 50-gal tank and all
the levels are good. and there are many rocks, plants, and hiding
places. I currently have 5 fish living in this tank, two 4-stripe
damselfish, a blue devil damselfish, a 3 1/2 inch lunar wrasse, and a 3
inch rectangular trigger fish. <The last two need more room than
this...> The wrasse is the newbie in the tank and he is doing really
well. but before we got him, trigger was king of this tank and for the
first couple days that the wrasse was introduced, the trigger would get
very protective of his side of the tank and would chase him all over.
and then they co-existed peacefully for about a week but for the last 4
days or so trigger has been MIA... he is hiding all the time and not
been coming out to eat the frozen pieces of krill that he loves.
<Not good for a standard diet> the wrasse doesn't bug the
damsels at all, he just likes to swim all over. but the times that i do
see trigger (when the tank light is off but the overhead light in the
room is on and the fish are "sleeping") i can see glimpses of
trigger moving to where he sleeps. at this i see an opportunity to feed
him, but as soon as he sees me he goes back into hiding. I'm afraid
that he is going to starve. should i take the wrasse out?
<Perhaps> i have another 10-gal tank that has 2 ocellaris clown
fish and a scooter blenny in it <... also need more room> but i
think that tank would be too small and he would be unhappy. the other
solution i thought of was to sell back the wrasse the fish store but
that also doesn't grantee that trigger will go back to normal, plus
I enjoy watching the wrasse 'fly' throughout the tank. i hope
this is enough info and any help would be greatly appreciated! -Jamie-
<Well... you seem to be aware of your options. Going forward,
I'd either get much larger tanks, or investigate the psychological
needs of the livestock you intend to keep... These systems are too
crowded. Bob Fenner>