FH Dis F 4

FAQs on the Flowerhorn Cichlid Disease 4

Related FAQs: Flowerhorn Disease 1, Flowerhorn Disease 2, Flowerhorn Disease 3, Flowerhorn Disease 5, FAQs on Flowerhorn Cichlid Disease by Category: Environmental, Nutritional (e.g. HLLE), Social, Infectious (Virus, Bacterial, Fungal), Parasitic (Ich, Velvet...), Genetic, Treatments, & Flowerhorns, Flowerhorn Identification, Flowerhorn Behavior, Flowerhorn Compatibility, Flowerhorn Selection, Flowerhorn Systems, Flowerhorn Feeding, Flowerhorn Reproduction, Cichlids, Dwarf South American Cichlids, African Cichlids, Angelfishes, Discus, Chromides, Neotropical Cichlids,

White String hanging from flower horn anus 4/24/12
Hello Sir.
Please assist me. I am facing a grave problem!! :(
<Oh?>
I just got a good water head 3 inch Red Dragon the day before yesterday.
It is eating well. I fed it with Humpy head, Ever Red XO and Grand Sumo. I gave it 10 medium pellets in 1 day.
Yesterday, while feeding it, i noticed a white thing hanging from it's anus.

This was 15 hours back.
The white thread is still hanging from the anus. It is about an inch in length and is trailing behind the fish when it moves.
The fish is still eager to eat. But, I have stopped feeding it because I am scared.
<Don't be>
Another weird thing happened!!
While the white thread was hanging, the fish had pooped. The poop came out (normal colour) from beside the white thread like thing and fell on the glass floor. It can't be white poop then!! Can it?
<Could well be>
How can it poop over a hanging poop? After that, it has pooped normal quite a few times.
What is it then? [image: sad.gif] [image: sad.gif]
The little guy is in a 35 gallon by himself with a 1750 ltr/hr top filter.
Water parameters are all normal.
The fish is hungry and wanting food!! But the white thread has driven me crazy!!
Can I just pull the white thread out with my hand??

What do I do? [image: sad.gif]
Please please guide me!! [image: sad.gif]
Please save my little guy!!
A video of my Flowerhorn is here : - http://youtu.be/qvHlDDE9oRQ [I am sorry for the bad light!!]
Also enclosing a picture showing the fish pooping normal colour. The poop comes out from the front side of the hanging white string.
Please guide me!! :(
I am at a loss!!
<Don't panic! I'd continue as if nothing had happened. Bob Fenner>

Re: White String hanging from flower horn anus 4/25/12
Thank you for your prompt reply Mr. Bob Fenner. :)
The white thing fell off from the Flower Horn's anus.
<Ah, good. As I suspected>
I can't see it anywhere.
Although there are some poops on the bottom of the tank where the upper part of the poop is slightly jelly white.
Fish is behaving normally.
Should I add a bit of Epsom salt to the aquarium?
<You could; but I wouldn't; no real need, benefit at this point>
Thank you. :)
Regards,
Ritam
<And you. BobF>

Re: White String hanging from flower horn anus 5/2/12
Sir,
The same problem thing has repeated itself. Today, 4 hours back I again saw a white stringy thing hanging from my flower horn's anus. It is acting normal. The stringy thing is still there.
It is trailing behind the fish. Should I be worried? :(
Please assist me sir.
Ritam
<White stringy faeces are usually a symptom of an intestinal irritation, most commonly Hexamita. This can only be treated with Metronidazole (often sold as "Flagyl"). Without treatment, most cichlids end up dead. Hexamita infections are very common among aquarium fish, but only become a problem when something is bad about their environment. Often low oxygen levels and high nitrate levels seem to be to blame. Review, and act accordingly; without the right environment, treatment with Metronidazole won't work.
Cheers, Neale.>
Re White String hanging from flower horn anus, ( Mr. Bob Fenner)' – 05/12/12
The below email entails the series of conversations between me and Mr. Bob Fenner.
<Ah yes; I do recall>
I am sorry for writing such a long sequence of messages.
<We have archived; filed under FH dis. F's>
But the sequence was really necessary to understand the whole thing. Thank you guys lots in advance for your assistance. :)
I am your #1 fan. :)
Sir,
<Ritam>
It has been a few weeks now. Everything seems to be alright with my fish.
It is now about 4.5 inches. But once or twice a week I see that same white thing. It hangs in there and falls off after a few hours.
My flower horn eats well and poo is brown coloured. But, why does the white
thing hanging from anus keep coming back once or twice a week? :( It does not look like any worm.
<This is likely a bit of this animal's colon that has prolapsed... again; not to worry. Not a big deal/problem>
It really looks like poo. But the aquarium ground is covered by brown poos. It poos brown. But once or twice a week this white string like thing sticks in the anus and keeps on trailing behind the fish and comes off after a few hours.
Is that something to be worried about? :(
Please assist me. I am so worried right now. :(
Here's a video of the white string thing : - http://youtu.be/qvHlDDE9oRQ
Please assist me. :(
Ritam Ganguly
<Do try other foods... Please read here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/flowerhornfdgfaq.htm
I am hoping that by providing a mix of foods, that your FH will retrieve its prolapsed colon. Cheers, BobF>
Re: White String hanging from flower horn anus, ( Mr. Bob Fenner)' – 05/12/12
Sir,
<Rit>
Thank you for your reply. :)
But, I thought that prolapsed colon looked like a blob protruding out of fish anus, But this is just like a white string think which falls off by itself to the ground after 1 hour max.
Ritam.
<Mmm, well... if it were, mine, I'd continue to do nothing... BUT, if you have a microscope, can examine this "thread", ascertain that it is possibly a Nematode, Protozoal... there are treatments (added to food) to treat for such... They have their dangers, downsides... Read here first: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/flowerhorndisfaq.htm
and the linked files above. B>
Re: White String hanging from flower horn anus, ( Mr. Bob Fenner)' – 05/12/12
Thank you sir for such a prompt reply. :)
I would really prefer to do what you would do. :)
<Ahh! Please join us when you feel it is time>
I won't do anything for the time being. :)
Currently, I am soaking his pellets in plain water before feeding him. I read somewhere that this makes food less complex to digest. :)
Am I doing right? :)
<Mmm, I might add/soak the food instead in a liquid vitamin (and HUFA) preparation>
Other than that I won't do anything for now. :)
<Ahh, this is what I would do as well>
Thank you sir.
Ritam
<Welcome my friend. BobF>

Short body Flowerhorn still unwell 4/17/12
Hello,
<Hi there>
My short body Flowerhorn (3.5 - 4 inches) has been upside down for quite some time now.
<?!>
Last time, Neale suggested that I move her to a bigger tank, so I got a 40G (160L) tank and observed her for a bit. But when things did not improve (she was actually laying sideways not even upside down), I started treating her with Erythromycin (http://www.nationalfishpharm.com/fish_diseases/swim_bladder.html ). During the treatment, she moved from sideways to upside down position. Since I had her on fasting for last 12 days, I put a capsule of vitamin B-complex. But the next day, I observed some slimy blackish/transparent stringy poo hanging out of her anus. Her colon is also slightly protruding. I do not see her tummy being bloated abnormally in any direction, but is slightly puffier than it was before putting the vitamin B-complex. Vitamin was added three days ago.
Actually, I would have liked to treat her with Maracyn, but I can't get it in India.
<This Mardel (co.) product IS Erythromycin>
I also tried getting it through some in US, but that could not happen, either.
<... and of no use here>
The temperature is 27 degrees Celsius, and right now has an internal filter. I change 50% of water every alternate day. There has been no feeding for last 14 days now barring the vitamin B-complex that I added.
Here are two photos I have uploaded of hers (takes a little while to load)
-http://tinypic.com/r/1215qxd/5
http://tinypic.com/r/ing9bl/5
Would a video be more helpful?
<Not really, no>
Any help is appreciated.
Thank you,
Shami.
<This hybrid cichlid has many such developable/ontogenetic problems... along w/ being kept in inappropriate conditions, poor nutrition, the "short bodied" mutants are much more prone to these spatial orientation issues.
This one will not likely improve. Do read here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/FHDisF4.htm
and all the linked files above. Bob Fenner>
Re: Short body Flowerhorn still unwell 4/17/12
Thanks for the reply, Bob. I went through the page (some of the posts there are my queries that Neale had answered last time).
<Ahh!>
So, from the page it looks like it is a bacterial infection,
<... Mmm, no... only secondarily... Genetic, environmental for the most part>
and it is pretty hard to treat. Is there any medicine(s) (I'll try to get it from US) that I can use it as a last resort.
<None; this is not a pathogenic issue>
So that at least the stringy poop is taken care of? She has been upside down for a while, and I've put rocks/sponge for her support, so she is okay for now. She does get up and swims (whirls and wobbles) every few hours.
PS - what I meant by Erythromycin was Althrocin by Alembic for humans.
Appreciate your help.
Shami.
<I'd try another type of fish/livestock. BobF>
Re: Short body Flowerhorn still unwell - 4/17/12
Bob, It is not about trying another fish/livestock; I will try to do the best for her. I just hope there were good vets for fish available in India.
<Perhaps you will become one. B>
Thanks anyway.
Shami.

Flowerhorn with Wound that Does Not Heal 4/10/12
Hello, I have searched your site and have not found anything regarding the issue I'm experiencing. I have a Flowerhorn with a small wound (1/8 inch) behind his Pectoral Fin that continues to have a white fibrous, thread like material on it (not fuzzy). He is 5 inches long in a 40 gallon breeder tank, water parameters are Ammonia - 0, Nitrite - 0, Nitrate between 5-10 ppm depending upon the day, Ph 7.4, Temp 81. He is still eating well and active and the wound is not getting worse nor larger. I have tried the following treatments with no success in the following order (not all at once, over the past four weeks) - 50% Water change, clean all filter media, and vacuum Epsom Salt (1 Tablespoon per 5 Gallons of water)Swabbing the wound with 10% Iodine solution Quick Cure (Malachite Green)
<... and formalin, deadly toxic... will destroy nitrifying bacteria>
API Melafix (Melaleuca 1.0%)
<A scam... see WWM re>
Tetra Fungus Guard (Nitrofurazone, Furazolidine, Potassium Dichromate)
<... I should and therefore will make a comment to/for others reading this:
Do NOT mix medications together unless you are very sure that this is a safe practice (e.g. all Mardel med.s are miscible)>
- Please note that I did not find Nitrofuranace After swabbing the wound the white growth will reappear after two days. Is this Bacterial or Fungus or something else? What do I need to do to cure? Your help is much appreciated, Kathleen
<Likely a physical trauma... that will clear (in weeks) of its own accord.
I would discontinue any treatment/s, as these are more problematic than useful. Bob Fenner>
Re: Flowerhorn with Wound that Does Not Heal 4/12/12
Okay....this was my second attempt to obtain some useful information from this site and in both cases you obviously did not take the time to read my email clearly. Case in point I stated below that I did NOT use all of the medications at once and hence did NOT mix them.
<Mmm, did not state that you did; but a warning to others not to>
I realize that it is a wound....what I'm trying to determine is what the white fibrous material is....is it bacteria or fungus? Don't bother to reply....no longer interested in what you have to say!
<Only way to "tell" here is through sampling and microscopic examination... but standard protocol is perhaps some salt/s use in all cases, monitoring/maintaining "good water quality"... B>

FH... sick... no data 4/7/12
I have a Flowerhorn(4inch) who is suffering white cloudy eyes and mucous fins and all its waste would stick to it. Besides that, i too observed that its feces is very red colour and very thick. It is also not active. It too shed its skin but does not change is colour. This sign disappear after 75% water change and it becomes normal and the next day all the sings would reappear. I do not know what to do. Pls help?
<Uhh, what re the system, foods... water quality your most likely trouble/sources here... Read here:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/FHDisF4.htm
and the linked files above. Bob Fenner>

Sick Flowerhorn Cichlid 3/30/12
Hi. I have a two year old female Flowerhorn about 9-10 inches in length called Bella. She lives by herself in a 200L tank with an internal filter and an airstone (2 airstones since she became ill). The water temperature is steady at around 25C/77F, the parameters right now are: Ammonia 0ppm, Nitrite 0ppm, Nitrate 5-10ppm (I use API liquid testers). The Nitrate has only been low recently after I was advised to add some additional bio-media to my filter system after explaining to my local aquatics centre that the Nitrate levels in Bella's tank had always been a little high, usually measuring around 30-40ppm after a water change and around 50-60ppm (sometimes even higher) before the next water change (weekly water changes of around 30%-40%). I moved house in May and the water from my taps is now Nitrate-free. I usually feed her 2-3 times a day with Hikari Cichlid Gold, the sinking type because in recent times she has shown signs of anxiety by hesitating when the pellets were on the surface sometimes splashing when taking them and then whisking off to a corner to eat. I didn't feed her much else apart from frozen bloodworm occasionally as she was reluctant to eat other foods, and I admit that I have probably over-fed her most of the time as well. I now realize the importance of getting some greens into her and will definitely adjust her diet when/if she recovers. As far as the anxiety goes, I noticed it several months ago and have been trying to fix it ever since - I have replaced the daylight bulb with a second colour bulb so it's not too bright for her, bought sinking pellets, tried different objects in her tank to try to help her feel more secure etc. but none of it really helped. Bella's problems: about two weeks ago I noticed she was hanging closer to the surface than usual but after a few days she stopped doing that so I didn't worry. However, after another couple of days I noticed she was sitting on the bottom of the tank with laboured breathing and not moving very often. So I phoned my local fish store and was advised to make sure all of the water parameters were acceptable and to maybe turn the light off to reduce stress, both of which I did. A day later I noticed she was rubbing the side of her face on the filter housing and turning on her side to rub herself against the substrate (only occasionally) and after speaking to the pet store I was advised to dose the water for gill flukes using Kusumi Wormer Plus as she had no visible parasites like Whitespot etc. It is now 9 days later and I am coming towards the end of a second treatment and she still spends most of the time sitting on the bottom (not on her side) and she only really moves around when I go close to the tank, then she will perform her 'get away from my house' dance and act generally aggressive, although not as energetically as usual. She gasps for air whenever she does move around and her gills stick out more than usual, although I cant see anything else wrong with them. She is also spitting and/or coughing occasionally too. She hasn't eaten for 3-4 days now either (and her appetite was poor in the days before). I asked my pet store if I should raise the tank temperature or add salt and was told not to do either and that her tank temperature was right where it should be. Also I'm not entirely sure but she may be slightly bloated in her stomach, but it's hard to tell. Her colouration is normal too. I have done epic amounts of research online to try to find a match for her symptoms but to no avail, and there is so much advice around that is very bad for fish everywhere. I would be very happy indeed if you could help me understand what on earth is going on with her. Thank you! P.S. Bella has rubbed herself on things in the tank before but only rarely, and in recent weeks I did notice a rare cough or spit too. I don't know if this is normal behaviour or if she has a long-term problem that has recently become worst. Regards - Martin (UK)
<These generic cichlid malaises are difficult to pin down, but are often a combination of environmental stress (including low oxygen concentration, and your tank is small for this hybrid cichlid) alongside protozoan parasites (e.g., Hexamita) and a secondary bacterial infection. I'm going to quote WWM cichlid guru Chuck here: "The internal infection can be difficult to treat. Ideally you need to get the medication in the fish through the fish food. Since your fish isn't eating I would recommend a little different treatment. Treat with the Metronidazole every other day doing a %50 water change on the days you don't treat. I would also add an antibiotic such as Nitrofuranace with the Metronidazole. After the third treatment I would try to feed the fish and try to get them to eat. If things aren't any better you could try Clout if it is available in your area.-Chuck"
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/fwsubwebindex/FHDisF2.htm
This is usually the only way to treat cichlids in this situation. In the UK, you can get these medications and the right dosages through your vet.
Cheers, Neale.
Sick Flowerhorn Cichlid-Chucks Take 3/31/12
Hi. I have a two year old female Flowerhorn about 9-10 inches in length called Bella. She lives by herself in a 200L tank with an internal filter and an airstone (2 airstones since she became ill). The water temperature is steady at around 25C/77F, the parameters right now are: Ammonia 0ppm, Nitrite 0ppm, Nitrate 5-10ppm (I use API liquid testers). The Nitrate has only been low recently after I was advised to add some additional bio-media to my filter system after explaining to my local aquatics centre that the Nitrate levels in Bella's tank had always been a little high, usually measuring around 30-40ppm after a water change and around 50-60ppm (sometimes even higher) before the next water change (weekly water changes of around 30%-40%). I moved house in May and the water from my taps is now Nitrate-free. I usually feed her 2-3 times a day with Hikari Cichlid Gold, the sinking type because in recent times she has shown signs of anxiety by hesitating when the pellets were on the surface sometimes splashing when taking them and then whisking off to a corner to eat. I didn't feed her much else apart from frozen bloodworm occasionally as she was reluctant to eat other foods, and I admit that I have probably over-fed her most of the time as well. I now realize the importance of getting some greens into her and will definitely adjust her diet when/if she recovers. As far as the anxiety goes, I noticed it several months ago and have been trying to fix it ever since - I have replaced the daylight bulb with a second colour bulb so it's not too bright for her, bought sinking pellets, tried different objects in her tank to try to help her feel more secure etc. but none of it really helped. Bella's problems: about two weeks ago I noticed she was hanging closer to the surface than usual but after a few days she stopped doing that so I didn't worry. However, after another couple of days I noticed she was sitting on the bottom of the tank with labored breathing and not moving very often. So I phoned my local fish store and was advised to make sure all of the water parameters were acceptable and to maybe turn the light off to reduce stress, both of which I did. A day later I noticed she was rubbing the side of her face on the filter housing and turning on her side to rub herself against the substrate (only occasionally) and after speaking to the pet store I was advised to dose the water for gill flukes using Kusumi Wormer Plus as she had no visible parasites like Whitespot etc. It is now 9 days later and I am coming towards the end of a second treatment and she still spends most of the time sitting on the bottom (not on her side) and she only really moves around when I go close to the tank, then she will perform her 'get away from my house' dance and act generally aggressive, although not as energetically as usual. She gasps for air whenever she does move around and her gills stick out more than usual, although I cant see anything else wrong with them. She is also spitting and/or coughing occasionally too. She hasn't eaten for 3-4 days now either (and her appetite was poor in the days before). I asked my pet store if I should raise the tank temperature or add salt and was told not to do either and that her tank temperature was right where it should be. Also I'm not entirely sure but she may be slightly bloated in her stomach, but it's hard to tell. Her colouration is normal too. I have done epic amounts of research online to try to find a match for her symptoms but to no avail, and there is so much advice around that is very bad for fish everywhere. I would be very happy indeed if you could help me understand what on earth is going on with her. Thank you! P.S. Bella has rubbed herself on things in the tank before but only rarely, and in recent weeks I did notice a rare cough or spit too. I don't know if this is normal behaviour or if she has a long-term problem that has recently become worst. Regards - Martin (UK)
<These generic cichlid malaises are difficult to pin down, but are often a combination of environmental stress (including low oxygen concentration, and your tank is small for this hybrid cichlid) alongside protozoan parasites (e.g., Hexamita) and a secondary bacterial infection. I'm going to quote WWM cichlid guru Chuck here: "The internal infection can be difficult to treat. Ideally you need to get the medication in the fish through the fish food. Since your fish isn't eating I would recommend a little different treatment. Treat with the Metronidazole every other day doing a %50 water change on the days you don't treat. I would also add an antibiotic such as Nitrofuranace with the Metronidazole. After the third treatment I would try to feed the fish and try to get them to eat. If things aren't any better you could try Clout if it is available in your area.-Chuck"
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/fwsubwebindex/FHDisF2.htm
This is usually the only way to treat cichlids in this situation. In the UK, you can get these medications and the right dosages through your vet.
Cheers, Neale.
< If you do a search WWM on cichlid bloat I think you will find that many of the cichlids with similar problems have been fed bloodworms. These worms pull nutrients out of the substrate and probably pull some toxins as well.
I would recommend not feeding bloodworms to cichlids as well as the recommendations Neale has referred too.-Chuck>

Flowerhorn in Distress 3/4/12
Dear crew,
Hello!
<Hello again, Manoj,>
We have a female Kamfa Flowerhorn little more than 15 months old with good growth. She has reduced her food intake since last one week and has not eaten anything for last three days. Generally she is a good eater. Now we are observing that she has few small faint white spots on her left side flipper (small clear fin). We are not sure whether it is ICH. We had
changed the water completely and added 20 tsp of rock salt to 15 US gallons of water.
<15 gallons is FAR too small for an adult Flowerhorn. This species needs 75 gallons, minimum.>
Also, we increased the temperature to 86 0F after which she developed severe red patches under her belly, so we reduced the temperature to 82.4 0F which she has tolerated well earlier. Further, we added 500 mg of tetracycline HCl to the tank. The redness reduced next day after changing 70% water.
<Good.>
Now the concern is the fish is not at all eating any Grand Sumo pellets which we generally feed her. She was passing normal stool but for last two days didn't pass anything after she has stopped eating. Moreover, we find her hanging in the corner of the aquarium most of the time with belly up as if resting. When we call her she responds and moves around normally for some time and then goes back to the hanging position again. Earlier she was in the habit of resting regularly in the night after the light is switched off in a vertical position with head up and tail down till morning. But it worries us now to see her hanging in belly up position during day time also which she never did before. She is also suddenly shaking her body few times in a day.
Please advise immediately what is her problem and what we need to do to bring her back to normal health. She appears to be in distress and not her usual active & happy self. We have enclosed photos of her earlier & present sleeping positions for your proper understanding. We wait for your urgent advice on diagnosis and treatment. Thanks in advance.
Manoj P.B.,
<Do read:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/fwsubwebindex/FHParrotCichArtNeale.htm
And also read through our other replies for very similar situations, here:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/fwsubwebindex/flowerhorndisfaq.htm
Follow the various "Flowerhorn Disease" links on that article. Do also read about Metronidazole, here:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/metranidazole.htm
This is a good all-around medication for parasitic infections, including Hexamita:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/fwsubwebindex/hexoctfwfs.htm
Bottom line though, without data on aquarium size, water quality, water chemistry I really can't diagnose the problem here. It's most likely environmental, but I can't be sure. Cheers, Neale.>

Bonsai FH lying sideways 2/17/12
Dear crew,
<Hello Shami,>
I have a bonsai Flowerhorn (exactly similar to this fish -
http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forums/showthread.php?328310-Bonsai-Red-Flame-Flowerhorn-Female-TX-Shipping-or-PU ).
About a month ago, my FH had a bacterial infection that I treated with Terramycin 250mg.
Now about 15 days ago, I was going for vacation (while my mother was at home), and I decided to add some B-complex capsule before leaving, because she was still on blanched green peas diet. Anyway, when I came back after 4 days, I saw she was upside down with a big swelling on her abdomen. My mother had not fed her for first two days, and gave only half pea for the next two days.
After looking at the swelling, I again started the treatment with Terramycin, and during the course of treatment she went sideways from being upside down. Now after two weeks of continuous treatment, her swelling has disappeared, but she is still sideways (mostly staying in one location).
She can get up barely for 10 seconds, and she does this for about 5-6 times a day. Sometimes her bottom two fins are almost clamped to her body, but not always. Also she likes to stay near the air stone. There is no filter,
<Not filtering water is not an option. If you're using a medication that kills filter bacteria (some antibiotics do, some don't) then you need to use zeolite.>
because I was treating her with Terramycin till two days ago. I also noticed some black pepper like spots ONLY inside her mouth. These are new.
They weren't there 15 days ago (I think).
My local fish store suggested that I treat her with Parazin P.
<Not terribly reliable; certainly NOT an antibiotic, and at best, used for treating external parasites.>
I have purchased the tablet, but I am little scared to use it unless I know that will fix the problem.
Based on the my description of the problem, can you please tell me what possibly could be the cause for her being sideways? Also, how do I diagnose the problem - that is whether it is bacterial/fungal/parasite problem.
Appreciate your help!
Thanks,
Shami.
<Do need much more information than you're giving me, Shami. How big is the aquarium? I assume at least 75 Imperial gallons/340 litres for a single Flowerhorn. The "bonsai" name doesn't mean this variety is smaller -- it is only more deformed than the average Flowerhorn, and hence has a shorter, more bent body shape. Second, what's the water quality? You can throw all the medication you want in the aquarium but if ammonia and nitrite aren't zero, then the fish will sicken. So a big, heavy-duty biological filter is a must. As with all cichlids, nitrates also have to be controlled, less than 20 mg/l. Finally, there's water chemistry; these fish need moderately hard to hard, alkaline water -- aim for 15+ degrees dH, pH 7-8. Your problems are almost certainly caused by the environment because that's BY FAR the biggest source of problems people have when keeping Flowerhorns.
Cheers, Neale.>
Re: Bonsai FH lying sideways 2/17/12
Hello Neale,
<Hello again Shami,>
Sorry, I forgot to mention the aquarium details. I will give you the case history. Please bear with me, as this is a little involving.
<Not a problem.>
So, I do not have a big aquarium and I am going to get a 3ftx2ftx2ft for her once she is well.
<Hmm part of her getting well will be fixing her environment.>
Actually, when I first saw her in the aquarium store, the guy told me that it is a cichlid and that it can stay in my existing aquarium of size 4ft x 2ft x 1.5ft with 3 other barbs (red eye). However, being very aggressive, she killed one of my barbs,
<Ah, yes, what they do. Flowerhorn cichlids are best kept alone.>
and that is when I moved her to a smaller aquarium of size *1.5ft x1ft x 1ft *that holds approximately 15G of water.
<Too small.>
She was barely half an inch in diameter when I got her home about a year ago. Now she is ~3.5 inches in diameter.
<Now, you're doing well having grown her to this size. But as fish get bigger, they need more space. Even at this size she really needs 40, 50 gallons of water.>
Since late Oct 2011, she started flipping upside down. And I have been treating her with Terramycin and Flagyl on the need basis. She recovered around Nov end, and few weeks later bumped in to a rock and got a bad red bruise on her tummy (I am still wondering if the bruise was because of banging in to the rock).
<Possibly, but the main thing is surely inadequate water quality. Cichlids are VERY sensitive to small tanks and inadequate filtration. Daily water changes can offset things to a degree, but still, it's best to keep them in big aquaria.>
Anyway, then I starved her for a week, while adding Terramycin. When she recovered from this situation, the last incident that I mentioned in my previous mail happened. I can get a bigger aquarium, but I am apprehensive to change anything while she is unwell. What do you suggest?
<Yes, change the aquarium! The upside-down swimming could be caused by constipation, which can be fixed by using Epsom salt and feeding the fish peas:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/fwsubwebindex/SaltUseFWArtNeale.htm
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/fwsubwebindex/gldfshmalnut.htm
If the fish is sick with Hexamita, Dropsy, or something else like that, then you will need to use the appropriate medication. Do read the various Flowerhorn Disease FAQs, starting and linked from here:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/fwsubwebindex/flowerhorndisfaq.htm
Round off your reading here:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/fwsubwebindex/FHParrotCichArtNeale.htm
Your problems *are* environmental more than anything else.>
Now during normal circumstances (when she is not flipped), I keep her in the same tank - 1.5ftx1ftx1ft. I use bore well water and add DoAqua-BeSure to treat the water. There is an internal filter and a heater that was kept at 26 degrees Celsius. I feed Hikari Cichlid Excel mostly. Other food I rarely use are Hikari Gold/Staple. I do not feed bloodworms or any other food. All this was before Oct '11.
When she is unwell (flipped upside down or has swelling), I take the filter out, hike the temperature to 30 degrees (it's been four months that temperature is 30), stop feeding mostly (or give blanched green peas), add mineral water instead of bore well water in next water change, and do 50% DAILY water changes. Sometimes, I do water changes on alternate days (this is the maximum).
<Good.>
I followed a similar regime this time, too. I am assuming that there will not be much Ammonia and Nitrate, because of water changes. I could have given you the test kit reading, but I do not get test kits in Bangalore, India. It sounds ridiculous, but I have placed the order since last six months and no one got me a test kit. If there is a another way of testing water, please let me know and I will send you the results.
<Hmmâ€¦ to some degree, expert fishkeepers don't need test kits. If you keep a few fish in a big aquarium with a robust filter and do regular water changes -- the water quality should be perfect!>
Right now, she is active, that is, moving or rather swirling like a disc and occasionally rising to the top. She wants food, but I am feeding her green peas every alternate day.
Based on your comment, I feel Parazin P is not useful. With naked eyes, I do not see any thing on her body. Would you suggest that I add Flagyl?
<For intestinal parasites like Hexamita, yes, this is good.>
I am really curious as to what causes her to go upside or sideways?
<This variety of Flowerhorn has a deformed spine and compressed swim bladder, so is prone to buoyancy problems when stressed or sick. Constipation can be a common cause of trouble, but not the only one.>
More than anything, I would like her back to normal.
Any help is appreciated.
Thank you for your time.
Shami.
<You're welcome, Neale.>
Re: Bonsai FH lying sideways â€" 12/17/12
Hello Neale,
Sorry I misspelled your name in my last mail.
<No problem.>
Thank you for your prompt response.
<Welcome.>
I had actually gone through the same links that you had sent me. I honestly like your site, so at my leisure time I keep browsing through it.
<Good to hear.>
I have a couple quick questions -
<Yes?>
1. This morning I put 200mg of Flagyl in her tank, which is about 45L of water.
<Too small.>
I have not noticed any significant change, but this evening I saw some red dots on the skin just on top of her right gill. I tried taking pictures of it, but she is moving (horizontally!) very fast, and would not let me take a good picture of the area. Also, there is something stuck to her anus (it is not a worm, but more like body part).
<Yes; a prolapse of the colon. Very common when cichlids are stressed, infected with bacteria in the gut. Do read on WWM for many, MANY examples of this sort of thing; e.g., here:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/fwsubwebindex/OscarDisF7.htm
The issue is environment; the solution better housing alongside antibiotics.>
I have put the filter in with carbon, but turn it on occasionally, because she does not like much current. Can you please take a look at the attached 2 pictures, and see if you can figure out something? Do you think her eyes are bulging out a little?
<A little, yes. Again, very common when cichlids are stressed. Fluid accumulates inside the body, and as well as causing dropsy, causes the eyes to bulge.>
2. Now I really believe that there are parasites,
<Brought on by a poor, stressful environmentâ€¦>
so I would like to treat her with a quarter tablet of Parazin P (The fish store guy sold me 5 loose tablets of Parazin P - I am hoping it is actually Parazin!), but I do not know how exactly to do it. Should I take 50% water out, so that most of the Flagyl is gone, and then add the Parazin?
<You should be able to use them together, but there's always a risk. On the other hand, you shouldn't ever stop a course of medication halfway through.>
Or should I wait for one more day, and then change the water, and then add Parazin?
<If that's how long it takes for the course of Flagyl to be finished, yes.>
Once I add Parazin, should I do daily water changes, or is there a particular period? Should I keep the filter on?
<Yes!>
Can there be carbon in the filter?
<No!>
Can she be fed green peas during the Parazin course?
<Yes.>
I will appreciate if you can help me with the above two questions.
By the way, I am going to order a new tank tomorrow and it should be ready in next 7 days.
<Good.>
Thank you so much!
Shami.
<Welcome. Do read, learn from others' experience of the same thing. Many, MANY cases of cichlids kept in too-small aquaria, and such situations usually end badly. These are not fish for aquarists with limited space, money. Cheers, Neale.>

Re: Bonsai FH lying sideways 2/18/12
Hey Neale,
Thanks for all the answers!
<Welcome.>
I guess it is your day off, but I will write the proceedings of the day anyway. Today, I did a 30% water change, and added Flagyl (about 200mg). I powdered the Flagyl 400 tab, and added half of it to hot water in a cup.
Then I took a part of the solution and added blanched green peas, and fed her the green peas (soaked in Flagyl). Later, I added the rest of the Flagyl solution to the water. Although, I am using mineral water for her, I still added "DoAqua-BeFine".
<Why use mineral water? Tap water with appropriate water conditioner should be fine.>
As a follow-up question, can I add DoAqua-BeRelax to heal her wounded portion along with other medicines?
<If you want, yes.>
I am following the Flagyl dosage based on -
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/metranidazole.htm - so tomorrow will be the last dosage.
<Yes.>
Now, my fish store guy suggests me to use Parazin P after Flagyl course is over, and he also says that Parazin P is NOT for parasites, but for internal worms (he is not very technical). So, I need your help in understanding what really Parazin P is.
<"Straight from the horse's mouth" as we say in England; what the manufacturer says it's for:
http://www.waterlife.co.uk/waterlife/parazinp.htm
For treating Fish Lice, Anchor Worm, Gill Maggots, and Water Tigers and other parasites that attach to the OUTSIDE of the fish (gills are, technically, on the outside, even though they're covered with the gill opercula).>
Also, you said that since her colon is protruding out, I need to put her on antibiotics along with a bigger aquarium. In some places, I see that Flagyl (Metronidazole) is an antibiotic? Is it true?
<Yes.>
I thought it is only anti fungal and anti parasite.
<Uh, no. Is used to treat bacteria and some protozoan parasites (like Hexamita spp.) but has little/no value treating fungus. Again, read: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metronidazole
>
The aquarium is going to take about 7 days, but can I start her again on Terramycin?

Anyway, I think Terramycin is antibiotic.
<Yes.>
But I have been using it since last 3-4 months on her, so could it be possible that the bacteria in her body might have gotten immune to Terramycin?
<Body won't be immune, no; but may not be the right antibiotic for the bacteria you're treating.>
In that case, should I use Terramycin, or switch the antibiotic?
<Perhaps.>
Do you know any effective antibiotics for Fish that are available in India, too? If not, suggest me some that are available in US, and I will ask someone to FedEx/bring it.
<Here in England antibiotics are only available through a vet. I would assume it's the same in India too, at least so far as the law goes. In any event, it is ALWAYS better to talk with a vet before using an antibiotic.
At the moment you're randomly medicating, and that's not a very effective approach. In the US, it's fairly standard to medicate sick fish with two antibiotics (e.g., Maracyn and Maracyn 2) that treat gram-positive and gram-negative bacteria at the same time. This gives you the best chance of beating the infection. But it's still a worse approach than asking a vet for help.>
She is still sideways although very active. Whenever she sees me near the tank, she gets up straight (with difficulty) and comes near the surface thinking I will give her food. And when she does not get food, she goes and lays down again. Sigh! It is very sad to see her beg for food :(
One last question for today - how bad a condition do you think she is in, and how long it may take for her to recover?
<Hard to say. Depends on how soon you get her moved to a healthy aquarium of the right size and with the right water chemistry and quality.>
My experience says that she is strong (really thank god for that!), and if I do daily water changes and give the right medicines, she will be fine soon.
Thank you so much!
Shami.
<Glad to help. Cheers, Neale.>
Re: Bonsai FH lying sideways 2/18/12
Hi Neale,
<Salve!>
Thanks. You know, I would take my fish to a vet if only there was one available. First, there are very few vets, and to make things worse for me these limited vets only treat dogs and cats. I even went to regular doctors (not vet - but who treat us humans), and even they were of no help.

It is only when I could not get a local help, I started looking online. At the best, I can take help from this site, which has vets available online - http://www.justanswer.com. For some reason, I think it is not reliable.
By the way, I thought you guys (@WWM) are vets. Is that not so?
<Hmmâ€¦ no. Some of us are scientists to be sure, with marine biology backgrounds. In my case, zoology degree and a palaeontology PhD. So mostly we speak from experience rather than veterinarian school training. That said, we do each have our own fish healthcare books (written by vets) from which we'll quote as necessary.>
I am going to order Maracyn & Maracyn2 both next week. I really hate to blindly treat her without any knowledge, but then I have to try something, otherwise I may loose her. I left her without medicine for a couple of days, and her condition was going worse (swelling coming back, less active).
I really appreciate you helping me in this crucial moment.
<Most welcome.>
Thank you,
Shami.
<Cheers, Neale.>
Re: Bonsai FH lying sideways 2/20/12
Hello Neale,
<Hello Shami,>
How are you doing today?
<Busy.>
So here is how my Fi's (Bonsai Flowerhorn) day went today.
She is a little dull, but I have seen that Flagyl does make her lethargic.
I did a 50% water change followed by adding 200g of Flagyl. I also fed her one green pea, which was refrigerated and soaked in Flagyl for 24 hours.
She did not look excited about the food, probably because it must have gone bitter. Anyway, she is not able to get up as much she used to a couple of days ago, but I am hoping once the Flagyl course is finished, she will be better.
Well, I am pretty sure that there are parasites on her fins and near gills.
And since she is already on Flagyl, I decided against Parazin P. You article on 'Salt Use' motivated me to treat her with aquarium salt. Now, as usual, I have two questions -
1. Is aquarium salt same as rock salt?
<If food-quality, yes, you can use non-iodised rock salt.>
I could not get aquarium salt, but from the near by Fish store I got rock salt. The store person claims that it has NO Iodine in it. So, can I use this as a substitute for aquarium salt? It was very cheap - like 5 INR (0.1 Euro) for 1Kg!
2. Even after reading a few articles on parasite, I cannot understand what kind parasite she has, so I thought I will describe it to you, and perhaps you can decipher what it is. On her transparent left hand fin (I am talking about the fins that are almost attached to the gills), there is some kind of tiny, transparent gel like things (all in a column) equal to size of pen tip. This area, where the growth is, on fins is away from the gill. Then similar growth is seen near the joint (where fins join the gill area). I feel this is fish lice. I am so surprised that there are parasites in her water, when I am using mineral water! Unbelievable!
<The problem is environmental Shami. You can't identify obscure parasites through words or photos. And in any event, I don't think that's what your problem is here.>
Also, on the other gill, there are two red (dark pink) spots about the same size as above, which I believe are parasites. Do you agree? If so, what kind?
I was also thinking of giving her the rock salt treatment with the lowest dose you prescribed in your article as 2g/L, which would tantamount to 100g for my aquarium.
<2 grammes per litre; 100 grammes for 50 litres.>
Can you endorse this please?
Thanks again for your time.
Shami
<Let's not waste any more time here Shami. This fish won't get better without a better world to live in. Do read where you were sent, and in particular review aquarium size, filtration, water quality and water chemistry. Cheers, Neale.>

Re: Bonsai FH lying sideways 2/20/12
Hey Neale,
Thanks for the answers, again. Yes, I am getting a tank. Since the size I need is not available of the shelf, it is taking a few days. I hope that solves all the problems for my fish :)
<Will certainly help. You may need to medicate to fix the immediate problems. But longer term, yes, to keep this species successfully, it does need certain things, as described earlier.>
I will update you once I have moved her to a bigger tank.
Thanks,
Shami.
<Best, Neale.>

Re: Bonsai FH lying sideways 2/22/12
Hello again Neale,
<Hello Shami,>
Sorry to disturb you, but I thought I should inform you that finally her tank (3ftx1.5ftx1.5ft) is arriving tomorrow :) I am planning to fill it with tap water, add filter/heater, add beneficial bacteria solution (DuAqua) and let it run for a couple of days (pre-cycle). Right now, she is in mineral water, so I am thinking that when I change the water tomorrow, I will add some tap water so that she gets accustomed to it by Saturday.
<Okay.>
Also, yesterday I realized that she has Ich (it is not some other parasite as I had doubted earlier), so I am thinking is it better to treat her in the smaller (current) tank? I will really appreciate if you can please take a look at the attached picture?
<Please don't send such big photos! These two were almost 8.5 MB in size, and that fills up our e-mail account. They also take ages to download.>
1. Do you think her pectoral fins and the lower fins are affected?
<No.>
2. Do you think her eyes (surrounding area) are cloudy?
<No.>
I am trying to treat her with rock salt (10 tablespoons), because she has had too much medication in the last three weeks.
<Hmm…>
I am also adding Epsom salt to ease her extended anus. The filter is off most of the times, because she finds it difficult to swim against the current, especially in the horizontal position. I turn it on every hour for 5-10 min.s. I have started feeding her Hikari Excel soaked in Epsom salt.
<Why? Sounds pointless to me. Epsom salt isn't a medicine. They don't need to eat it.>
Please let me know if you think I am doing something wrong here.
<Do refer to previous e-mails and read the articles where you were sent.>
Thank you for your time.
Shami.
<Cheers, Neale.>

Female red dragon flower Horn with anus popping out 1/15/12
Dear crew at WWM,
<Krissy>
I have a female red dragon flower horn who has an anus that is popping out.
At first she didn't start showing many signs other then slowly stopped eating. Next we noticed these white cotton like matter that was in the tank. Now her anus/lady parts have started bulging out of her body.

She has an appetite, she will eat the food but spit it out before chewing on it. I've treated her with Melafix
<Worthless>
anti bacterial fish remedy but would like to know what else I should treat her with.
<Please use the search tool on WWM... on every page... with the words "anal prolapse", and try adding the word "cichlid" to the string, and read...
Perhaps Epsom Salt (search for this on WWM as well...) will help here>
We did a 25% water change just recently before treating tank (tank is only 10 gal)
<Too small...>
, and her tank is sitting between 82-84 F
<Too hot... Please, read here:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/flowerhornsysfaq.htm
and the linked files above re this sport mutation's husbandry>
. I don't have the equipment to test the water but if you recommend to test I should be able to take a sample to my local Petland.
<Need your own test kits...>
What do you suggest I do? I've attached photos.
<Search and read for now. Write back if you have specific questions, you're not clear what to do.>
Thank you for your time,
Krissy M from Canada
<Welcome. Bob F in Ca>

Red streaks on Flowerhorn fish 1/13/12
We have a female Flowerhorn little more than 1 year old. Off late red patches have developed on her body. Especially the underbelly, dorsal fin, around the gills and the nuchal hump. Even the periphery of her mouth seems to be reddened. Also on the head there is some black/green mark looking like some growth of fungus. She is very active and her appetite remains normal.
<Good>
We generally feed her with Grand Sumo 25-30 pellets thrice daily which we have now reduced to 20-25 pellets. Ours is a 14 gallon aquarium
<Ahh, too small... most of these cases of errant markings can be attributed to aspects of water quality and stress from environmental issues. Larger space is required>
with a normal power filter with 172 gallon per hour filter rate. The water is maintained at 82.5 0F.
<Too high... I'd keep in the mid 70's if possible>
We have changed the entire water of the aquarium after these symptoms started appearing however these symptoms seem to persist.
We have attached her photos taken today along with some previous photos to assess degree of redness. (Image 411-previous, Image 732-present)

Please advise what is the problem with the fish and what needs to be done.
Looking forward to your immediate reply.
Thanks in advance.
Manoj P.B.,
Mumbai, India
<Please read here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/FHDisF4.htm
and the linked files above, particularly FH System FAQs. Bob Fenner>

Short body Flowerhorn Bacterial Infection (?) 12/31/11
Dear Crew,
<Shami>
I am attaching the picture of bruised my Flowerhorn. I will really appreciate if you can take a look at it and let me know what possibly this could be?
<... poor water quality leading to stress, reduced immunity, now secondary bacterial infection. This fish is on its way out>
I was treating her for bacterial infection for last three days with Terramycin with daily water change, and yesterday I gave her a tablet of Metrodanizole,
<... of no use here>
too. This morning she did not look very well, so I did 50% water change,
<There appears to be mulm on the bottom... what re water quality, test results?>
and added only Terramycin and little bit of Epsom salt. Also, yesterday, she banged in to a rock, but I did not notice a bruise.
However, since this afternoon, I feel the bruise is getting bigger and worse.
Please, please let me know what this is, and how can I cure it. I researched and I am scared if it is hemorrhagic septicemia or contusion.
Thank you for your valuable time.
Shami.
<... Please read here:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/FHDisF4.htm
and the linked files above. Bob Fenner>

Flowerhorn... hlth., nutr. 12/2/11
Hi,
Good Day.
<And you Binesh>
This is Binesh here from India.
1 week back i bought a male and female Flowerhorn. The male is 4-5 inches and the female 2-2.5 inches.
I kept them in a 200 ltr tank and separated them with a glass partition. The female occupies 25% space and the male 75% space.
When i started feeding them ( XO Humpy head) the male was not taking the food immediately and the female ate this very quickly.
The male fish used to take the pallets in his mouth and then spit it. But after some 1 hour it starts chewing it and would spit all the food which deposited in the bottom of tank.
This went on for 2 days. After 2 days i changed the water 100%. But still the male is repeating the chewing and spitting practice and the female eats it as usual.

The male is not playing with us as Flowerhorn usually does, but the female do plays a bit.
The male fish is moving around in the tank very freely and does some exciting act towards the female but not to us. The earlier Flowerhorn i had used to play with us very much.
I enquired about the same to the pet shop and they advised me to put 800 mg of Flagyl ( Metronidazole) into the water and change the water 50% on alternate day. I did it and still the male behaves the same way.
<Mmm, this is a very powerful medication...>
Then one of my friend asked me not to put Flagyl and try 10 tablets of tetracycline hydrochloride capsule along with half kg of salt and 10 drops of a medicine called rid all. I have put this yesterday. He advised me to change 60% of water tomorrow and repeat the same cycle.

Will my fish be cured of whatever disease it has and start being active with humans and start taking food.
Please advise.
I have maintained the water temperature to 28 degrees.
With best regards,
Binesh
<Best to just be patient. I doubt that the one fish has a biological disease here. Bob Fenner>
Re: Flower horn 12/2/11
Hi Mr. Fenner,
<Hello Binesh!>
Thanks for your quick response.
<Welcome>
I have done the second part of water change yesterday and repeated the process of salt and tetracycline. Tomorrow i am again going to repeat the same.
<Okay...>
Please advise what other food can be given
<Please read here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/flowerhornfdgfaq.htm
and also advise what is biological disease. Is this curable?
<... ones caused by living agents... as opposed to nutrition, environment.....>
Also please advise if you have any other medication to suggest.
<None>
I love the fish that i bought and don't want to loose it. Please help.
Thanks in advance.
Best regards,
Binesh
<BobF>
Re: Flower horn, fdg. -- 12/5/11
Hi Bob,
<Bin>
I don't get such fast responses from my vendors, which i get from you.
You were of great help in guiding me for the faster recovery of my fish. Thanks a lot.
<Welcome>
I have got the fish food Hikari food sticks. My FH is eating this very well.
<Ah, good>
The cover of the food reads ideal for top feeding carnivores.
But the shopkeeper told me that the food is for Arowanas only.
<... No...>
Please advise if I can continue this.
<You certainly can... B>
Rgds,
Binesh
Re: Flower horn
Hi Bob,
Thanks a lot for all your valuable advises.
I have zeroed in on the supplier of Hikari foods in India and he is sending me Cichlid Bio Gold.
I hope this is fine?
<Oh yes>
Once again thanks for all your support.
<Welcome Binesh. B>
With Best Regards,
Binesh
6Re: Flower horn -- 12/6/11
Thanks Bob,
Thanks for all your help.
<Welcome Binesh>
Here in India the general conception is that Humpy head is the one and only food which is good for FH.
People believe that it will increase head growth.
I was also under the same impression before i started reading articles in your site.
<Ahh!>
Thanks for suggesting Hikari to me.
Once again thanks for your time and i hope i don't disturb you in near future.
Cheers,
Binesh
<And you, B>
Re: Flower horn, hlth., nutr. -- 12/03/11
Hi Bob,
<Binesh>
I did a 100% water change today, removed all the medicines, put some more rocks and stones, added one more filter.
<Good>
Changed the food to dry shrimps. He initially did not touch the food.
But then suddenly he took all of them into his mouth.
I put one more and he ate it well.
<See WWM re Thiaminase>
Think the diet has improved. But the humpy head pallets remain untouched.
<Throw it away>
Thanks for your advise of changing the food. Is it OK that in future i feed him with only the shrimps.
<No... see above and where you were previously referred. BobF>
Thanks
Binesh
Re: Flower horn -- 12/03/11
Hi Bob,
<Big B>
Thanks for the quick responses you give.
<Welcome>
As per your below mail, understand that i should not give more of shrimps to my FH as it contains Thiaminase and can cause a deficiency of vitamin B1.
Please correct me if I am wrong.
<You are correct... Did you read here:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/flowerhornfdgfaq.htm>
So I should start giving peas and spinach to the FH. But is this enough for FH?

Is there any specific tinned food you can suggest me? Need your help here.
Rgds,
Binesh
<And you. BobF>

Sick Flowerhorn Cichlid 11/9/11
Hi,
I was hoping that someone would be able to help. I have been browsing the forums, looking for a question similar to mine, in order to avoid asking the same question.
I have a 37 gallon tank with 3 fish in it: a Flowerhorn cichlid, a pacu, and a plecostomus.
<These fish are MUCH too big for this tank! The Pacu will get to at least 60 cm/24 inches in length, and the Plec something like 45 cm/18 inches. The Pacu needs a pond, not an aquarium! Do Google "Colossoma macropomum" to see some examples of adult Pacu. Also, they're omnivores, not herbivores, and treat other fish as potential meals.>
Prior to getting the 37 gallon tank, the Flowerhorn and Pleco were kept in a 20 gallon tank (by their previous owners). Since both fish are rather large (both more than 9 inches from nose to tail) I felt like this was an insanely small environment, and moved them to a 37 gallon tank. Everything was fantastic until I made the huge mistake of moving a pacu (that was causing problems in a different tank) to this one. The pacu developed mouth rot, and I have been attempting to treat him for this ever since. The first medication that was used (regretfully I do not remember the name) didn't appear to work, and I moved on to the highly recommended BiFuran. The mouth rot appeared to get better within a day, but the Flowerhorn has been acting very.... off.
The Flowerhorn is no longer eating, less active, and is slightly tilted to one side (almost at all times). He has been skulking in a corner and refusing food for about 1.5 days. I know that refusing food is extremely unusual for Flowerhorns, which is why I am extremely alarmed and worried.
So far my methods for treatment have been to remove the pacu and put him in a medicated bucket with a bubbler, and doing yet another water change to the main 37 gallon tank. The medication BiFuran calls for doing a partial water change every 24 hours, and yesterday was day 2 of this treatment.
This morning when I noticed the Flowerhorn looking worse than he did yesterday I did another water change (and attempted to remove all visible waste of any kind). I also did liquid water tests, the results of which I'll indicate below.
After the water change the temperature of the tank is down to 77 degrees F.
Usually the tank temperature is 82-83 degrees F.
The pH of the tank is around 8.2 (which I believe is normal for this cichlid).
Nitrite levels appear to be normal <25ppm,
<Do you mean Nitrite or Nitrate? A Nitrite (with an "I") level of 25 ppm is lethal. Even 0.25 ppm would cause stress and likely explains the problem here. Too many fish, too little water, not enough filtration.>
but it is difficult to tell since the BiFuran has tinted the water yellow.
Nitrate and Ammonia levels also appear to be normal, but it is difficult to tell due to BiFuran tinting.
During the morning's water change I added Aquasafe (as usual) and a biological aquarium supplement. The supplement I added because I am worried that such frequent water changes have been upsetting the fish as well.
I hope you will be able to assist me, thank you so much.
<The problem here is almost certainly environmental. You need something like 100 gallons just for the Flowerhorn and the Plec; add the Pacu, and we're talking hundreds of gallons. Hope this helps, Neale.>
Re: Sick Flowerhorn Cichlid 11/9/11
Hi Neale,
<Julia,>
Thanks for the quick response.
<Most welcome.>
I'm aware that this is a disastrously small tank for these fish. At the time my priority was getting them out of the 20 gallon tank and into one much larger. I did not think at the time that considering their size, this is (the 40 gallon) unacceptable. I've since removed the pacu and put him in a quarantine tank with BiFuran medicine and a bubbler. I'm hoping to find a fish store that would be willing to take him and care for him since I don't have adequate space.
<Indeed. Public aquaria and zoos are your best bet, really. In the UK, I can also recommend the Maidenhead Aquatics chain; they'll normally take back fish and rehome them, even if they didn't sell the fish originally.>
I am doing very frequent water changes. I did not quote that previous figure correctly to you before - the nitrite level is at 0 mg/L, not anywhere close to what would be deemed dangerous. My ammonia levels are also zero, but I was told by a fish store (to which I took a water sample for analysis) that my nitrate levels were too high, about .5 mg/L.
<Nitrate levels of 0.5 mg/l are ideal! Honestly, I think there's some confusion here between nitrite (with an "I") and nitrate (with an "a").
Nitrite is dangerous even at trace levels, with 0.5 mg/l being immediately dangerous and 1 mg/l being lethal. Nitrate, by contrast, is quite literally a hundred time less toxic, with levels of 100 mg/l being lethal to salmon, for example. Normally, levels up to 40-50 mg/l are tolerated by most freshwater fish including most community fish, and only some groups, including cichlids, being sensitive to levels above 20 mg/l. Do also bear in mind that marine aquaria work perfectly well with levels of 5 mg/l, so nitrate really is relatively non-toxic.>
They indicated that this was not a catastrophe but very strongly recommended that I take care of it ASAP. I purchased a new filter, hoping that the water quality would improve, and did another water change this evening, very thoroughly vacuuming all of the gravel. I am now aware that I have not been vacuuming the tank properly, I stuck the nozzle of the water vacuum as far as it could go into the gravel and *black* water started coming out. I suspect that my ignorance about proper vacuuming led to a very dirty and unhealthy water environment.
<Nitrate isn't removed by a filter, so you can add as many as you want, and it'll have no impact. Filters only remove ammonia and nitrite. Nitrate depends on two things: how many fish are in the tank (they cause nitrate to go up) and how many water changes you do (these cause nitrate to go down).>
You are very correct about my mistake with the "nitrite." I meant to say less than .25 ppm, not 25 ppm. I am using two different water charts, which is why previously in this email I used units mg/L and am now returning to the ppm unit system. As I mentioned previously I was able to verify today that nitrate was too high, while ammonia and nitrite appear to be fine. I was also told, by a very surprised fish store keeper, that the water quality is to soft. Unfortunately this did not occur to me. I know Flowerhorns like hard water conditions, but the tap water in the house in which I live has only soft water available. What would the solution here be, and how can I harden the water slowly enough so that the fish are not shocked and hurt by the sudden change?
<Just do small water changes, 10-20% per day, while changing water chemistry. Do read here:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/fwsubwebindex/fwh2oquality.htm
The Rift Valley salt mix, at about half the quote dose, should work well.>
What is your opinion about whether or not the Flowerhorn cichlid and Pleco (only those two) could remain in the 37 gallon tank together?
<Long term, no. Viable for both while the catfish is less than 20 cm/8 inches and the cichlid less than 15 cm/6 inches. But long-term, these fish would need something around the 75 gallon mark to do well, and ideally more, 100 gallons, if you didn't want a constant battle to keep the water clear and the tank clean.>
I will refrain from any sorts of experiments involving the purchase (or transfer of other fish). I also removed the largest decoration (a Greek temple ornament that had a bubbler feature, I kept it in there because the Flowerhorn was very fond of spending time in it) in the interest of increasing space. I am frantically trying to find a website that sells a hundred gallon tank for these fish, but so far have had more luck with craigslist.
<A good approach, but do be careful. Leaky tanks are expensive to fix and difficult to judge from a photo! A local aquarium club might be a better bet. When all is said and done, it's often more cost effective to buy a new tank, simply to remove the risk factor.>
You have been very helpful. My only remaining question is, why is the Flowerhorn tilted slightly to one side?
<Does the light come in from that side of the tank? Fish will lean towards light. Like us, they can feel up and down by gravity, but they also assume light comes from overhead. If the tank isn't lit, but the outside is, the fish will lean towards that source of light.>
Also, how can I get him to eat again (he is still refusing). I really appreciate all of your help, I was Googling for hours on Flowerhorns before I finally messaged your crew, asking for help.
<Ah, now, if he isn't eating, constipation may be an issue. He won't eat if ammonia and nitrite aren't 0, but if they are, and he isn't eating, he may be constipated; quite common with these fish. Do read about Epsom salt: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/fwsubwebindex/SaltUseFWArtNeale.htm
And also constipation, the use of peas: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/fwsubwebindex/gldfshmalnut.htm
>
Best,
Julia
Re: Sick Flowerhorn Cichlid 11/12/11
Hi Neale,
<Hello Julia,>
Sorry for the delay in reply, school has been hectic (and sick Flowerhorn wasn't helping!) The Pacu is still in a 5 gallon quarantine bucket with bubbler and heater (he is still small, about 6 inches long) with the BiFluval. The white stuff (from mouth rot) around his mouth appears to be gone (now has been replaced by a clean but bleeding sore). I am hoping that the medication will help him heal, and that the sore will become better before he is transferred to a different location. I live in California, and I believe there is a store near by that could adopt the Pacu after he is in better shape than he is now.
<Cool.>
I've been following your advice and changing the water every day, 10-20% and putting in small amounts of salt, and smaller amounts of Epsom salt (as the article indicated). After the fish are better, I will (as the Epsom salt article suggests) try to slowly raise the hardness of the water. So far I am extremely pleased - the Flowerhorn is eating again, active again, and even playful (not skulking in a corner). It is likely that a combination of moving the first fish, cleaner water, and the use of salt has improved how he feels. Nonetheless, he isn't eating as much as usual, which is why I am putting very small amounts of Epsom salt in as a general laxative (since constipation could be a problem).
<Now, do understand two things. Firstly, salt slightly reduces the toxicity of nitrite and nitrate. So in overcrowded tanks it can make fish healthier and behave more normally. Not indefinitely, and it certainly shouldn't be used inside of buying a bigger aquarium and better filter, but in emergency situations, it's useful. Secondly, when making the moderately hard, alkaline water Flowerhorn cichlids prefer, you need more Epsom salt than aquarium salt. I'd recommend half the dose used for Rift Valley cichlids.
In other words, 0.5 teaspoon baking soda, 0.5 TABLEspoon Epsom salt, and 0.5 teaspoon marine salt mix per 5 US gallons. See here:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/fwsubwebindex/fwh2oquality.htm
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/fwsubwebindex/SaltUseFWArtNeale.htm
Used as instructed, this should create water with around 10-15 degrees dH and a pH around 7.5.>
Thanks again for all of your help, I really appreciate it. I'll try to update you with the progress of the fish since I know that this will be beneficial to other users and their own experiences with cichlids, and in particular Flowerhorns.
Thank you so much, this website is remarkably useful, and your help is very valued.
Best,
Julia
<You are most welcome. Cheers, Neale.>
Sick Flowerhorn Cichlid,
Flowerhorn With Internal Infection 11/11/11
Hi, I was hoping that someone would be able to help. I have been browsing the forums, looking for a question similar to mine, in order to avoid asking the same question.
I have a 37 gallon tank with 3 fish in it: a Flowerhorn cichlid, a pacu, and a plecostomus. Prior to getting the 37 gallon tank, the Flowerhorn and Pleco were kept in a 20 gallon tank (by their previous owners). Since both fish are rather large (both more than 9 inches from nose to tail) I felt like this was an insanely small environment, and moved them to a 37 gallon tank. Everything was fantastic until I made the huge mistake of moving a pacu (that was causing problems in a different tank) to this one. The pacu developed mouth rot, and I have been attempting to treat him for this ever since. The first medication that was used (regretfully I do not remember the name) didn't appear to work, and I moved on to the highly recommended BiFuran. The mouth rot appeared to get better within a day, but the Flowerhorn has been acting very.... off.
The Flowerhorn is no longer eating, less active, and is slightly tilted to one side (almost at all times). He has been skulking in a corner and refusing food for about 1.5 days. I know that refusing food is extremely unusual for Flowerhorns, which is why I am extremely alarmed and worried.
So far my methods for treatment have been to remove the pacu and put him in a medicated bucket with a bubbler, and doing yet another water change to the main 37 gallon tank. The medication BiFuran calls for doing a partial water change every 24 hours, and yesterday was day 2 of this treatment.
This morning when I noticed the Flowerhorn looking worse than he did yesterday I did another water change (and attempted to remove all visible waste of any kind). I also did liquid water tests, the results of which I'll indicate below.
After the water change the temperature of the tank is down to 77 degrees F.
Usually the tank temperature is 82-83 degrees F.
The pH of the tank is around 8.2 (which I believe is normal for this cichlid).
Nitrite levels appear to be normal <25 ppm, but it is difficult to tell since the BiFuran has tinted the water yellow.
Nitrate and Ammonia levels also appear to be normal, but it is difficult to tell due to BiFuran tinting.
During the morning's water change I added Aquasafe (as usual) and a biological aquarium supplement. The supplement I added because I am worried that such frequent water changes have been upsetting the fish as well. I hope you will be able to assist me, thank you so much.
< The water quality will be difficult to measure with the medication in the water. I would recommend treating with a combination of the antibiotic in addition to using Metronidazole. Assume the antibiotic has wiped out the biological filtration and continue with the water changes. Do a 50% water change an treat with both medications. When you fish begins to eat you are on your way to a successful recovery.-Chuck>

Short body Flowerhorn Bacterial Infection (?)
Bloating Flowerhorn 10/30/11
Dear Experts at WWM,
< Expert = Someone who realizes how little they know.>
My name is Shami Thoke, and I am writing to you from Bangalore, India. My short body Flowerhorn, "Fi", is unwell, and I need your urgent help. I've Googled numerous sites, but I am unable to find anything that I am experiencing. I will really appreciate if you could bear with my lengthy email, and suggest me a solution.
My "Fi" (not sure if it is male or female) is with me for the last eight months. She is about 3-4 inches in diameter. I feed her Hikari Cichlid Excel, and I keep her in a 50 Litre (~15 G) tank. I maintain the temperature at 26 degrees, and I use an internal filter. I clean the tank every week. I keep sucking the dirt out of the tank till it is clean, While the inlet pipe keeps the water pouring in. I use bore well water (I do not know the parameters), and I add DoAqua BeFine during every water change.
Last week (Friday Oct 21st 2011) before leaving for office, I observed that she had difficulty in swimming, and was toppling over and over again. I got a little suspicious, so I changed 70% water, and refilled with mineral water, and added 3 tablespoons of rock salt, and increased the temperature to 27 degrees. When I came back home, she was upside down and could not get straight at all. I did another 50% water change (henceforth I am using mineral water), and now I added 15mg of Epsom salt, and increased the temperature to 28 degrees. I stopped feeding from the evening.
By next morning (Saturday), there was no change in the condition, and I observed white-stringy-fungus kind of poop, so I again changed 50% water and added two tablets of Flagyl 400mg (contains Metronidazole), and upped the temperature to 30 degrees, and fed her blanched green peas soaked in Metronidazole.
Her condition did not improve till Saturday evening, so I did another 50% water change and added one tablet of Flagyl 400mg. She could get straight by Sunday morning though not for long, so I followed the same procedure - two times water change and adding two Metronidazole tablets.
By the grace of god, she was much better on Monday morning, so I kept the water change to once per day, while feeding Metronidazole soaked peas. I continued with the treatment with Metronidazole on Tuesday and Wednesday, too, Since she was a little better on Wednesday, I started with a little bit of Hikari, and I noticed that she again had difficulty in swimming on Thursday, but I did not pay much attention and did not stop the feeding. And on Friday (Oct 28), she was upside down again. I starved her for two days with water change once a day.
Sunday morning, I fed her a bit of green peas soaked in Metronidazole. But she is upside down about 50% of the time, and is craving for food.
I have to confess one more thing - last night, when I changed the water I forgot to switch on the heater back (I am cursing at myself for this), and she was at room temperature, which was about 24 degrees, for six hours (12 midnight to 6am). I switched on the heater back at 6 am, and kept it at 26 degrees for an hour before raising it to 28 degrees. I am not maintaining the 28 degrees temperature.
I feel horrible seeing her upside down, though it is not as bad as the initial few days. I will really, really appreciate if you can tell me what I am doing wrong, or what I can improve up on.
Eagerly awaiting your response. Thank you so much!
Shami.
< All these changes are probably stressing out your fish. Causing the reoccurrence of the problem. Set up the tank as you would normally and leave it alone and see if she gets better for one week. Do not feed her. There may be an internal infection. If she looks worse then treat with a combination of antibiotics and the Metronidazole. Start to feed after the treatment but only feed enough so that all the food is gone in a couple of minutes. Remove any uneaten food after that.-Chuck>

Flower horn hurt itself and a scratch on its head- precaution 10/26/11
help
Dear WetWebMedia Crew,
<Akshata>
Appreciate all the efforts your have been doing to help all of us take better care of our loved Flowerhorns.
My Flower horn hurt itself today and has a scratch on its head leaving its head flesh in contact with water . I have attached the picture of it for reference. It is behaving normal and playful but is there any precaution I need to do to avoid any infections. I just love it too much.. Please help.
Regards,
Akshata
<Not to worry. This wound will heal of its own accord. I would NOT add anything to the water. Bob Fenner>

Re: Flower horn hurt itself and a scratch on its head- precaution help 10/27/11
Thank you so much for your reply :)
<Welcome. BobF>
Re: Flower horn hurt itself and a scratch on its head- precaution help 10/28/11
Hey Bob,
<Ak>
The fish has recovered completely :) This sure is a sturdy one!
<Ah, yes... given decent conditions (space, water quality, nutrition) this is a very tough organism. Cheers, BobF>
Regards,
Akshata

Flower Horn 10/1/11
Hey guys!
I am writing you in regards to my male and female Flower Horn. I purchased my Red Dragon Flower Horn about 3 weeks ago. She is a lot smaller then the male flower horn I have in my 120 gallon tank but they got along just fine with no fighting. We noticed that her stripes are getting a lot darker, and she is going to lay eggs. They both started clearing out the small pebbles around the rock we have in the tank. Okay here's the problem today I noticed my male flower horn has started hanging out at the top of the tank with his fins poking out from the water.
<Mmm, something wrong here>
his top fins have started to get all messed up and it almost seems like he has air in his tummy. He keeps doing 360 spins and then floating back to the top of the tank. Should we do a water change and clean the filter?
<What re water quality? Ammonia, nitrite and nitrate, pH/alkalinity?>
Or should we let the female lay her eggs? Could he be stressed seeing as this is the first time he has mated.. Please let me know what we should do.
Below I will list some information about the tank.
Thank you in advance!
Temp-82 degrees
The tank has 2 flower horn-2 algae eaters-1 rope fish
We feed them sinking and floating pellets.
<Please read here:
http://wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/flowerhornreprofaq.htm
and the linked files above. Bob Fenner>

Flower Horn Skin Condition 9/6/11
Hi Crew
Eric King here and I have a question about my Flower Horn. Yesterday I was feeding him and I noticed that he is starting to develop some sort of skin condition (pics included).
<... 8 megs... What do we state we'll accept? Hundreds of Kbytes. Back to go w/ you>
He has some patches on his skin that are milky in appearance and starting to slough off. This started 2 days ago and the patches look to be spreading across the length of his body. I am thinking it is some sort of Fungal infection. My water parameters are all good, Ammonia is 0ppm, Nitrites are 0ppm, Nitrates are 0ppm,
<... no... How?>
PH is 8.0-8.5
<Too high>
and the water temp is 78F, water volume is 100 gallons and I am doing a 25 gallon change every week treated with API Stress Coat fish and tap water conditioner, and adding API Aquarium Salt
<Why? Not needed or suggested>
at rate of one tablespoon per 5 gallons and adding API Stress Zyme biological filtration booster.
<Ditto>
Tank has two Magnum 350Pro Canister filters and Bio wheels filtering 700 gallons per hour total, filters are filled with Marineland Activated Carbon and Zeolite.
P.S. I have been having a problem with him eating, He hasn't eaten on a consistent basis in probably two months. I feed him Hikari Cichlid Gold and Hikari Cichlid Staple twice a day but he really doesn't eat all the time.
<... Likely environmental... the pH is too high; however you're rendering the water NO3 is likely toxic... See WWM re FH systems, chemical filtrants for nitrate poisoning. Bob Fenner>

Flower Horn Skin Condition 9/7/11
<... this has already been responded to>
Hi Crew
Eric King here and I have a question about my Flower Horn. Yesterday I was feeding him and I noticed that he is starting to develop some sort of skin condition (pics included). He has some patches on his skin that are milky in appearance and starting to slough off. This started 2 days ago and the patches look to be spreading across the length of his body. I am thinking it is some sort of Fungal infection. My water parameters are all good, Ammonia is 0ppm, Nitrites are 0ppm, Nitrates are 5 ppm, PH is 8.2
<Too high>
and the water temp is 78F, water volume is 100 gallons and I am doing a 25 gallon change every week treated with API Stress Coat fish and tap water conditioner, and adding API Aquarium Salt at rate of one tablespoon per 5 gallons and adding API Stress Zyme biological filtration booster.
Tank has two Magnum 350Pro Canister filters and Bio wheels filtering 700 gallons per hour total, filters are filled with Marineland Activated Carbon and Zeolite.
P.S. I have been having a problem with him eating, He hasn't eaten on a consistent basis in probably two months. I feed him Hikari Cichlid Gold and Hikari Cichlid Staple twice a day but he really doesn't eat all the time.
<Environmental. Read here:
http://wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/FHParrotCichArtNeale.htm
and all the linked files above. BobF>

Re: BobF's wonderful customer relation skills.... FH hlth., "good" consumerism 9/7/11
<... Am sending this along to the gentler Neale for his further input.
Cheers, B>
<<Hi Eric. When fish produce patches of slime the usual explanation is that there is some sort of irritant on their skin. Most of the time that irritant is chemical: perhaps ammonia and/or nitrite, but potentially also
things like copper or even (improperly used) medication. Sometimes external parasites are to blame, including "Costia" (properly, Ichthyobodo spp.) and Trichodina spp. Such infections are often called Slime Disease. Now, Slime Disease appears to be latent on many fish, but becomes problematic when
fish become stressed. You often see it on newly imported livestock that don't adapt to the cramped conditions in tropical fish shops, for example loaches and pufferfish. But it can also appear on fish at home if they become stressed, so reviewing water quality, water chemistry, temperature, oxygenation and social behaviour (tankmates) are all critical. There are commercial medications that treat Slime Disease; I find these work best alongside saltwater dips. Cheers, Neale.>>

FH hlth., Hospital Tank for a Flowerhorn suffering from Ciliate Chilodonella infection 9/7/11
HI Crew, this is Eric and I was wondering, do you guys have an article giving detailed instructions on setting up a hospital tank? I have finally narrowed down what my Flowerhorn is suffering from and now I need to get it treated but I have never had to set up a hospital tank and I want to make darn sure I get it perfect. Any info would be greatly appreciated!!!
<Hello Eric. Chilodonella is difficult to treat, and it's also difficult (impossible?) for hobbyists to distinguish between Chilodonella, Ichthyobodo (=Costia) and any of the other so-called Slime Disease parasites. So you need to be open minded here. Normally, a good, reliable Whitespot medication works against them. Usually, salt at 3 g/l to as high as 5 g/l will also eliminate early cases. One of the best things you can ALSO do alongside either of these treatments is to do seawater baths, i.e., dip the fish in water with a salinity of 35 g/l but the same temperature as your aquarium. Dip the fish for at least 2 minutes and preferably as long as possible, 5, 10 or even 20 minutes being possible. Remove the fish before it becomes obviously distressed, e.g., by rolling over. Saltwater dips kill parasites on the skin, and the longer the dip, the more parasites are killed. The saltwater also helps to clear up the irritation and reduce the mucous. Do at least one dip, and I like to do another after 2-3 days.
If your Flowerhorn lives by itself, there is no need to set up a hospital tank. Flowerhorn cichlids are not sociable fish and aren't usually kept with other fish. Details on quarantine tanks are elsewhere on WWM; the rules for marine tanks hold here, except, obviously, you don't use seawater but freshwater!
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/quaranti.htm
Cheers, Neale.>
re: Hospital Tank for a Flowerhorn suffering from Ciliate Chilodonella infection 9/7/11
I have a medicine that contains Methylene blu, and formalin.
<Formalin can work. But it is EXTREMELY toxic to your fish, your filter, and you! So use with extreme caution as instructed on the packaging. I would not use it.>
Will that work and if I treat the entire tank what would I need to do after the treatment, i.e. recycling the tank.

Nitrates too high (RMF?)<<Already wrote this fellow re the root of his issue...>> 9/7/11
Hello Crew, this is Eric
I'm having a problem with Nitrate levels in my Flowerhorn Cichlids tank. I have a 75 Gallon tank and my water parameters are Ammonia 0, Nitrites 0, Ph is 8.2 which I know is high and I am currently trying to lower it with Ph Down, tank temp is 77F. I did a 50% water change today and vacuumed the gravel and my Nitrates are at 40 ppm, ml/G. My question is should I keep doing a large water change every day until that level drops down to minimal?
<Yes, that's the easiest approach. Also cut down feeding, and also make sure the aquarium is reasonable for the size of your fish. An adult Flowerhorn can be 25 cm/10 inches long, and a big, fat fish at that -- so 75 gallons isn't a huge amount of water. What's the nitrate level of your tap water? If your tap water contains 40 mg/l nitrate, then doing water changes will NEVER take the nitrate level in the aquarium below that. For cichlids, 40-50 mg/l is just about the maximum they tolerate without long-term problems. They are, for example, much less tolerant of nitrate than Goldfish. You really want 20 mg/l nitrate or less. If you have 0 mg/l nitrate in your tap water, and 40 mg/l nitrate in the aquarium, then changing 25% will lower the nitrate to 30 mg/l, 50% to 20 mg/l, and so on. Obviously big water changes expose fish to the risk of temperature and water chemistry changes, so there's a balance to strike between adding new water and your ability to keep temperature and water changes nearly constant. Small, daily water changes of 10-20% will be safer than changing 75% once a week, though some advanced aquarists certainly take the second approach knowing that they can keep temperature and water chemistry very steady.>
I have Bio Wheels on my tank with two Magnum 350 Pro Canister Filters that are both filled with Activated Carbon and Zeolite. I understand for reading on the site that Bio Wheels can add a lot of Nitrates to the tank.
<Not sure this is true, but it's often stated. I think it's perhaps better to say that a DIRTY canister filter can cultivate its own "ecology" of microorganisms that may contribute nitrate to the water, and certainly compared to sand filters or live rock filters there's no active removal of nitrate. But a well-maintained canister filter that's rinsed regularly is a PERFECTLY good filter choice for cichlid aquaria.>
I am also adding 1Tblsp per 5 gallons of water of Aquarium salt to the replacement water when I do my water changes, could that be contributing to the high nitrate levels.
<No, but salt isn't a magic bullet either.>
The only reason I am adding the salt is per my Veterinarians recommendation.
<Salt reduces the toxicity of nitrite and nitrate, so in some ways its useful. But it's also a potential stress on freshwater fish, especially soft water fish. I doubt this concentration of salt will have much negative harm on a Central American hybrid cichlid, but do be aware that some hard water cichlids from the Rift Valley of Africa are prone to "Malawi Bloat" when kept in tanks where salt is added carelessly. There isn't any compelling reason to use salt in the long term, so once your fish is better, and once you've got nitrate levels to 20 mg/l or less, I'd slowly phase out salt usage by adding less and less over a few months. Cheers, Neale.>
re: Hospital Tank for a Flowerhorn suffering from Ciliate Chilodonella infection 9/7/11
Ok one last question, this white spot problem started about a week after I introduced a large Pleco into the Flowerhorns tank, would it be a good idea to just get rid of the Pleco?
<Any new fish has the risk of bringing in Whitespot, so in that sense, the damage is already done. But in a 75-gallon system an adult Pleco and an adult Flowerhorn will be producing a LOT of waste, likely explaining your high nitrate levels. Furthermore, there are lots of reports of Plecs "sucking" onto the sides of big, slow-moving cichlids such as Oscars, so that's another reason not to keep them together. Flowerhorn cichlids are simply much easier kept alone, where you can very precisely maintain the
right water chemistry and water quality. If you must keep them with other livestock, you'd really want a tank bigger than 75 gallons. Cheers, Neale.>
Re: Hospital Tank for a Flowerhorn suffering from Ciliate Chilodonella infection 9/7/11
Also, Neale, I have now way of checking salinity levels so any idea how much aquarium salt I need to add to 16 gallons of water to get 35g/l?
<You can use Google to convert grammes into ounces and litres in gallons.
On my web site there's a program called "Brick Calc" that will do this for you, converting g/l into ounce/US gallon and comparing these to specific gravity and % seawater. Cheers, Neale.>
Re: Hospital Tank for a Flowerhorn suffering from Ciliate Chilodonella infection
ok Neale, I am trying to find something in the USA that is equivalent to the eSHa 2000, any ideas, or maybe what types of chemicals I should be looking for.
<Seachem Paraguard and Mardel Maracide are the sort of thing I'd be looking at.>
I can get products from a company called Mardel that treats skin problems.
I am really at a loss for what to do here cause my Flowerhorn has had this problem for 4 days now and it just keeps regressing as the days go on.
<Do try the salt dip; can clear up the mucous within hours, and that's a good sign Costia or similar is the problem.>
I've spent the last 4 days just trying to figure out what is going on. Also I would need a product that I can treat the hole tank with and after treatment just replace my carbon
<Remove these while medicating.>
and filter pads and do a water change.
<Cheers, Neale.>
Re: Hospital Tank for a Flowerhorn suffering from Ciliate Chilodonella infection 9/7/11
Oh ok so I would actually add 35grams of aquarium salt per litre of water.
Right?
<Yes. Do read:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/fwsubwebindex/SaltUseFWArtNeale.htm
35 g/l looks A LOT. But it's actually how much there is in seawater. Hold the fish in the water with a net. If it thrashes about, or turns upside-down, then remove and return to the aquarium. Be cautious, but don't
be frightened: this is one of the safest ways to treat fish. Do read the section on salt in the aquarium fish health book of your choice. Signing off for the next 48 hours! Cheers, Neale.>
Re: Hospital Tank for a Flowerhorn suffering from Ciliate Chilodonella infection
Oh ok so I would actually add 35grams of aquarium salt per litre of water.
Right?
<Yes. Do read:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/fwsubwebindex/SaltUseFWArtNeale.htm
35 g/l looks A LOT. But it's actually how much there is in seawater. Hold the fish in the water with a net. If it thrashes about, or turns upside-down, then remove and return to the aquarium. Be cautious, but don't
be frightened: this is one of the safest ways to treat fish. Do read the section on salt in the aquarium fish health book of your choice. Signing off for the next 48 hours! Cheers, Neale.>
Re: Hospital Tank for a Flowerhorn suffering from Ciliate Chilodonella infection 9/10/11
Before u go I picked up two medicines, Mardel Maroxy, and Mardel biospheres.
Sound ok?
<Not familiar with them. Check with manufacturer (packaging or website) to see if they treat Costia or Slime Disease. Cheers, Neale.>

Salt Dips on my Flowerhorn Cichlid and Maracide treatments 9/11/11
Hi Crew, Neale to be specific.
Neale I was wondering how many times I should do the salt dips on my Flowerhorn Cichlid? I did one today (9/8/11) and I am going to do another one on 9/10/11.
<Sounds fine. Do another a week later if you need to, but it may not be necessary.>
The one I did today he only tolerated it for about 5 minutes before he started showing serious signs of distress. Also with the Maracide treatment the instructions state to do the treatment for day one, day 3, and day five, should I stop after day five or continue to do the treatments until everything clears up?
<Follow the instructions! If the Slime Disease is still there, do a 25% water change, then the following day another 25% water change, and then on that second day, start another treatment (three doses across five days).>
Thanks to all of you at WWM for all the help, and the wealth of knowledge!!
Thanks again
Eric
<You're welcome, Neale.>
Saltwater Dips 9/11/11
Hi Crew specifically Neale, Eric King here again and here is a question about Saltwater Dips. I am making a dip for my Flowerhorn Cichlid and am wondering if I can use Aquarium Salt for this or if I need to be using a Marine Salt Mix?
<Either can work, but aquarium salt rather than marine salt mix will be better and cheaper. Non-iodised cooking salt will work, too. Cheers, Neale.>
Flowerhorn Cichlid with Slime Coat Disease and holes in Head and Lateral Line... water quality
High Tank Nitrates and HITH 9/11/11
Hi Crew, This is Eric. I have been talking back and forth with Neale about my problems and I know he is out of the office for the next few days but I have an important question. My Nitrate levels in my tanks are very high, 80 ppm ml/g and I am going to do 50% water changes every day till the levels get back to acceptable, but I need to know should I do these water changes before I start treating the tank with Maracide or after I treat with Maracide?
< Check your tap water for nitrate levels. In agricultural areas the tap water nitrate readings may be very high so changing water may not do too much good. Getting the nitrates down below 20 ppm would be a big help. If you fish is in a severe condition I would still start treatment despite the nitrate levels.>
Also I am going to do Salt Water Dips, should I start these right away or wait till the tanks water parameters are back to acceptable?
< Check the condition of the fish. The disease already has the fish stressed. If the salt bath stresses the fish out even more then I would wait until the fish builds up it strength.>
Thanks a lot to everyone on this site for all the great help and input.
< Thank you for your kind words.-Chuck>
Re: Salt Dips on my Flowerhorn Cichlid and Maracide treatments 9/13/11
Hi Crew, Neale to be specific, I am treating my Flowerhorn Cichlid for Slime Coat Disease and today is the last day of treatment with Maracide. He looks to be getting a lot better, activity has gone back to normal, his colors are coming back and the Slime Coat Disease looks to be almost gone.
My question is, should I continue to do a second round of treatment with the Maracide to be on the safe side, or could that be detrimental to the fish. Thanks for all the help and wealth of info, it is greatly appreciated!!!
<Do finish off the course of treatment. That's usually the best approach.
Glad all is working well. Cheers, Neale.>

Brewing Water... ongoing FH env. issues... pH/GH 9/13/2011
Hi Crew, Neale to be specific,
<Hello Eric,>
Got question for you, I have decided to use my two old 75 gallon aquariums as brew tanks for the water that I am going to use for my water changes.
One tank for my Flowerhorns aquarium and one for my other aquariums. The questions I have are these. 1. Do I need aeration in these tanks or just water circulation, I was going to install a powerhead and a circulation pump in each tank. I am also going to install JBJ Titanium heaters in these tanks so I can guarantee proper water temps.
<Circulating with an airstone or powerhead is a good idea. It takes about an hour to fully dissolve salt mixes, so aerating for an hour is really useful. Some folks aerate overnight, and that's good if your tap water contains dissolved gases and tends to change in pH rapidly. Otherwise, it's overkill, and an hour is fine.>
2. If I decide to use the mix that you recommend for Flowerhorns and Parrot Cichlids (Per 5 US gallons (20 litres) add the following amounts of each ingredient: one-half level teaspoon baking soda; one-half level tablespoon Epsom salt; and one-half level teaspoon marine salt mix (Reef Crystals, Instant Ocean, etc.)) is it ok to use aquarium salt instead of the reef crystals or instant ocean? And can I just add this mix to my brew tanks?
<Yes, you can use aquarium salt, but marine salt is better because it has more trace elements and it adds buffering capacity to the water. So by all means use up aquarium salt, but if the cost isn't a major factor, switch to marine salt as/when you can. For Flowerhorn cichlids, half the dosage should be ample unless you have very soft water. In other words, where the recipe says per 5 gallons:
1 teaspoon baking soda (sodium bicarbonate)
1 tablespoon Epsom salt (magnesium sulfate)
1 teaspoon marine salt mix (sodium chloride + trace elements)
Instead use this per 10 gallons/40 litres.>
3. I bought a new Nutrafin Master Test Kit and I checked my GH and KH of my Flowerhorns Aquarium, my dH is 14.56 but my KH is 220 mg/l, in your writings you state that the KH should be at least 5 degrees, what would 5 degrees be in mg/l, or do I use the same conversion for KH as I do for dH?
<1 degree KH is just under 18 mg/l calcium carbonate. So 5 degrees KH is 5 x 18 = 90 mg/l calcium carbonate. It's all here:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/fwsubwebindex/fwh2oquality.htm
Don't be too worried about the exact value. Carbonate hardness is all about stabilizing the pH, and if your pH stays stable from one week to the next, you're fine! You have a nice high level of general hardness, 14-15 degrees dH, and that's perfect for these cichlids.>
Thanks so darn much for putting up with all of my questions. I am trying to d my best to learn as much as again about this wonderful hobby.
Thank You
Eric
<Thanks for the kind words. Cheers, Neale.>
Re: Brewing Water 9/14/11
Thanks for the info but this brings me to another question, when I tested my tap water the pH is 7.0 but after three days in a Rubbermaid tote with dechlorinator, a heater set to 80 and a circulation pump ( not a power head) the pH is all the way up to 8.5 and higher. How can I get this to stabilize?
<The higher pH is likely the correct one. When water is underground it can absorb CO2 or minerals that lower its pH. When the water is "aged" in a barrel, some of those chemicals leave the water, and the result is a change in pH, typically a rise. The pH shouldn't go up above 8.5, so a 24-hour period of ageing should be fine. On the flip side, if you're worried, then do smaller, but more frequent, water changes so that the fish isn't exposed to dramatic changes. Instead of changing 30% once a week, change 15% twice
a week.>
Is that were the KH comes in and if so what can I do to keep the pH at the appropriate number for my Cichlid or the rest of my tanks for that matter?
<No; carbonate hardness, measured in degrees KH, is usually picked up when water flows through limestone-rich places, such as chalk aquifers underground. Cheers, Neale.>
Re: Brewing Water 9/14/11
Hi Crew, Neale to be specific
<Greetings,>
So in reading some of your writings I came across this: The carbonate hardness scale is based on the concentration of carbonate and bicarbonate and is a reflection of the *buffering capacity* of the water. *Water with a high buffering capacity resists changes in pH either up or down, resulting in very stable water conditions.*
<Yes.>
When I start my brew tanks my pH right out of the tap will be 7.0-7.5, how can I keep the pH at that level? Will the mix that you suggested boost the buffering capacity of this water so that when the water ages in the brew tanks the pH doesn't rise so bad? Or do I need to do something else to keep the pH at the acceptable 7-8 for my Flowerhorn?
<Yes, the Rift Valley salt mix contains lots of carbonate hardness -- the bicarbonate of soda -- and even at half-dose should provide very stable water conditions. Aerating the new water overnight helps it "de-gas", a really good idea if your water has unstable pH levels. Stir in the Rift Valley salt mix as well, and the result should be extremely stable water. Try it out with a bucket of water, and see what happens!
Cheers, Neale.>

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