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Lionfish Upper Jaw Issue
6/12/19
Injured Lionfish + 1 month without eating. Need advice please. 5/24/07 Hi! <Hello there> First off, great site - full of helpful information, but I can't seem to find anything that quite matches my case, so I'm dropping you a line. 4 weeks ago my lionfish acquired a sizable gash across the top of the head in the soft tissue between the "head plate" and the first dorsal spine. The deep gash went from one gill covering to the other and he was bleeding freely in the tank. <Yikes! Very bad situation... Fishes have very high "Packed Cell Volumes"... and a world of not much dissolved oxygen (often about 7 ppm... vs. ours of about 210,000... Need their blood, rest of their integument/slime systems to be intact to stay alive> I wish I could figure out how to attach the pictures I have, but it basically looks like someone took a steak knife and split the back of the head open. <Mmm, have seen similar injuries... Lions can really move at times... run into objects, jump out of the water, striking gear...> I later found a 2-inch peacock mantis in my live rock (which I immediately removed), but I am still unsure what caused this injury. The bleeding eventually stopped and under the advice of my local fish store, I treated the tank with MelaFix for 2 weeks. <Am not a fan> The Lionfish ate sparingly after this injury (he was a terrific eater of fresh frozen and freeze dried shrimp prior to this event), but ate his final piece of food 24 days ago. His wound is healing nicely (no discoloration or puss from the wound). I tried ghost shrimp and guppies - nothing is taking his interest. In fact, when I try to "pole feed" dehydrated shrimp, the live ghost shrimp will crawl up onto the face of my Lionfish to get the food!!! Water levels are fine, I check the ammonia, etc., every other day and change a portion of the water weekly. Anyway, his dorsal spines are depressed, laying along his back and he's noticeably losing weight (although I haven't massed him). I've contacted a few local aquaria regarding force feeding, and had I.V. feeding proposed as a suggestion. <Mmm... would not do this> Unfortunately, the aquarium that suggested this is too far away for me to bring in the fish (overseas). I was wondering if you had any suggestions for force or IV feeding? <Well... could/can be done... with extreme care with Pteroines obviously... but I would keep trying the foods you have been, with some changes... I would re-arrange the decor in this system, soak all foods in a vitamin and HUFA supplement (for attraction as well as nutrition), and make/use a "feeding stick" for the non-live items...> I've managed to shove food in his mouth via the "pole feeding" method, <Oh! Good> but at this point he's spitting everything back out - so I think we've gone a bit beyond the standard "hunger strike". If I must handle him to force or IV feed, what type of gloves would suffice to prevent being injured by his spines? <Mmm, actually... better to use well-soaked (to discount residual cleaner) white (versus colored) older cloth towels... to "hold back the dorsal and pectoral fins while manipulating such animals> I have dive gloves, but the joints are fairly thin. <These can be easily punctured... and the handling will further damage the fish with these> Any advice would be very helpful - my lionfish is such a terrific little guy, with an awesome personality (up until this event... his behaviour has radically changed to depressed and non-interactive over the past month). I don't want to lose him! Thanks, Kim <The food bolus must be pressed, inserted further back than the buccal cavity... past the obvious closure in the back throat... there are some backward pointing structures there that disallow live food organisms from escape... A plastic catheter, other tools... Bob Fenner>
Lionfish mouth problem 8/30/05 I hope someone can help me! I have a nice size lionfish (probably 8-9" long) in a 55 gallon. <Too small...> He has been in the tank for 2 years. I feed him frozen and dried krill, and feeder guppies occasionally. Yesterday I feed him some feeders and he did his usual routine of stalking his prey and thrusting his jaws open swallowing. But this time something happened that I have never seen before. It appears that his upper jaw is partially stuck out. <Happens> He went up to other feeders in the tank and attempted to swallow, but it was like he could not open his jaw. I will describe what it looks like the best I can. there is about 1/4" inch of white tissue on his upper lip that looks like it belongs inside his mouth. ( I am sure is does, I have seen his mouth and jaws expand out and forward then back to there normal position). He is now sitting on the bottom of the tank and unable to eat his prey. Any ideas on the problem or a solution? thanks for your time Eric <Time going by might heal this joint... otherwise (caution here) there may come a time when you want to catch and VERY CAREFULLY hold (in wet towels) this fish and massage, manipulate the jaw/joint back into place... fold the fish's dorsal and pectoral fins, pinning them backward, along the body... If it were me, mine, I would wait a week or two (the fish will not starve in the mean time, but will shrink a little and this may "do it")... I would look into larger quarters (by at least double) and eschew live foods. Bob Fenner>
Lionfish Choking Problem <Hi,
MikeD here> Hey Guys, I've spent a long time on this site
reviewing the FAQ's and the articles and I understand that I
can't have anything that's smaller than my lionfish's
mouth. He is a Volitans Lion and is currently an infant at
only about 2" in length. Problem is that he just ate,
or rather, was trying to eat a damsel that was in the
tank. I've had him for about 3 weeks and have not been
able to get him to feed on anything frozen.<Which is why he's
eating damsels. Very young lions frequently have eyes bigger than
mouths or stomachs. As a general rule, with new juvenile
lionfish I try to make sure all other fish in the tank are almost twice
as large, three times in the case of long narrow fish, such as
wrasses.>> This is the second damsel that he as
attempted to eat, the first was successful, as it was a much smaller
fish. Problem is, he has half the fish sticking out of his
mouth.<ouch> Will he be able to consume the whole
thing? I have heard that lionfish cannot regurgitate and that a large
chunk of food will choke them to death.<Actually, they can sometimes
spit prey back out, but the problem here is the damsel automatically
locks its spiny fins erect in self defense> If I need to
take action, what do I need to do?<By now it's probably a moot
point, but I've had fish choking on oversized food items to the
point they are belly up spasming on the bottom. I keep a pair of
long-nosed tweezers by the tanks to pull obstacles back out. The last
one was a 5" Sgt. Major Damsel that had even quit spasming, so
after I pulled out the food item (a piece of shrimp meant for a
lionfish), and once the passageway was cleared I "walked" it
back and forth in the tank for almost 5 minutes to keep water flowing
over the gills. I've since re-named him Lazarus. With any of the
scorpaenids, hold the fish carefully belly up with the spines facing
down to avoid impaling yourself if this becomes absolutely
necessary> By the way, all the tank parameters ( its a fish
only) are fine. <That's good at least>
Thanks,<You're welcome.> Red ulcer on lionfish hey guys, <Neel>
I'm new to the hobby and I have a bit of a dilemma. I've had a
recent outbreak of Ich in my 155 gal main tank and had to quarantine my
fish in a 40 gal copper tank. Here's my issue, today I noticed that
my lionfish has developed a reddish ulcer on the lower "lip"
of his mouth. He hasn't eaten in a few days...any thoughts on what
it is? <Likely the expression of a physical trauma (a bump in the
night) and the stress and strain of being moved, coppered...> Should
I place him back in my main tank to allow the ulcer to heal? He would
be the only one in the tank. Neel <I would put the Lion in the main
tank IF the quarantine/fallow period is done for the Ich remedy... NOT
if not. Bob Fenner> Lion In Trouble? Hey guys, I'll try to make this quick because I'm sure you've got about a thousand emails waiting for you. <That's what we're here for! Scott F. on call today!> I have had about a 3" Dendrochirus Zebra for about 2 months now, and he arrived to me with part of his "gill cover" missing so that some of his red, fleshy gill are is exposed. I thought this was just because of transportation, but now another problem has raised on that same gill on the same side. It seems that a small, very thin, transparent "skin sheet" has found itself underneath the gill area. It looks like it should be inside his mouth or by his gills, except somehow it got stuck outside. It almost looks like part of an onion peel. He is still eating and swimming happily and healthy. The other side of him looks fine. What could it be? I would have sent a pic but my camera broke last week. Thanks a bunch again, it's much appreciated! Francisco <Well, Francisco, hard to say what this tissue(?) is without actually seeing it. However, if the animals is otherwise healthy and happy- and eating, it may be that you simply need to maintain excellent water conditions, keep him fed, and be prepared to act should the animal appear to be in distress...Keep a close eye on him, and be prepared to act if the need arises. Otherwise, just give him a little TLC, and he should pull through just fine! Regards, Scott F.> Lionfish with broken venomous spines Hi!!! <Hello there> Just a quick question - I searched your site and could not find the answer for this one... I have my eye on a black Volitans lionfish at a LFS but one of his venomous spines (the top one) is broken and is about a half inch shorter than the rest. My question is will it grow back? Thanks a bunch....Lana. <Sometimes these spines do grow back... and sometimes they don't... In either case it doesn't seem to mal-affect the Lionfish. Bob Fenner> Injured Lionfish <Hi Brett, MacL here trying to help.> I have an adult elegant Volitans lionfish in my 75 gallon reef tank. He is about 7 inches long. Up until this point, I have been feeding him krill, frozen. Last time when I ran out, the store only had Freeze dried. He was eating these just fine, but one day I witnessed him hit his nose on the glass panel above the tank when he was jumping to get a floating krill. His nose turned a little red under the skin and he stopped eating. Then, he extended his mouth and it appeared that his upper jaw had dislocated. Just the lip portion, It appeared to have separated so you can see the bone. Since the incident, I have not noticed him eating ANYTHING. He tries, desperately, but He will not open his mouth wide enough. He used to eat off of the ground occasionally, but I have not witnessed this, either. He seems to be afraid of the krill now. ( I have not tried to feed him Freeze dried that float on the top since the incident.)<Sounds like he has dislocated or broken his jaw. Only time will heal that.> After all of the background to my situation, my question is this... HOW CAN I HELP HIM TO EAT? I noticed a similar question on the forum, with much less background, so I am hoping you can give me a definitive answer. <You might try something much smaller like Mysis or brine that he doesn't' have to open his jaw very wide to eat.> I had not noticed any major signs of starvation yet, so I had been waiting it out to see if he could heal on his own, like most people have said to do. However, it has been 3 weeks, and I feel like today he might look like he is getting a little skinny. <Try live brine while I'm thinking of this. Might stimulate him to go after it.> One shop recommended that I try and feed him live food to get him into eating again, so I did. I tried Rosies, but he couldn't get to them. he would slightly try to bite at them, but the his jaw will get distended and he stops. It takes about 10 minutes go back to normal, yet when I tried again to feed him today, it seems like it goes normal after a few seconds. He seems to be improving, but I don't know how he can get really better without food. Should I try some small shrimp or fish that can survive in the saltwater? Does anyone have any suggestions?? I am desperate here, I don't know how much longer he can go without eating. If pictures are needed, I can take them and e-mail them immediately. <I wish I had better news for you. I've been trying to research this but honesty there's not much you can do to help him heal. Some people recommend vitamin C. Personally I wouldn't give up hope. Lions are marvelous creatures. Try the smaller foods and hopefully he will be able to eat at least a little bit of it.> Thank you. Brett Chisholm <Good luck Brett.> Fish eye injury I have a lion fish that has stopped eating and looks like it has a scrape off scale mark on one side if its body and one gray smoky eye that is extremely enlarged. What is wrong and what can I do about it? <exophthalmia... (Popeye) likely caused by being spooked/frightened into the rock or glass. May require antibiotics, do use some Epsom Salt (from the pharmacy is fine) at 1 tablespoon per 5 gallons one time. Prepare to medicate in a QT tank if swelling doesn't subside within three days. Review medication procedures for exophthalmia in the disease section here on WWM. Don't worry about the lack of feeding...they can go for weeks without food. Best regards, Anthony> Thank You, R. Doughten Injured Lionfish Dear Crew, My lionfish looks like he may have injured his jaw. He is unable to retract the upper lip. It almost looks swollen. He still eats, but not nearly as much. I can tell that he is uncomfortable, and that he is having difficulty swallowing his food. Any suggestions?<Just give him time and try to keep him eating. He may have dislocated his jaw and all you can do is give it time. Cody> Thanks, Adam
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