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On NPR, "Sixth-Grader's Science Project Catches Ecologists' Attention"; re: Pterois volitans, minimum salinity> 7/27/14> Hello Bob, > An interesting piece of work from a 6th grader. > http://www.npr.org/2014/07/20/333192387/sixth-graders-science-fair-finding-shocks-ecologists <Ah yes> > The follow-up article is worth reading, too. As NPR have pointed out in their addendum, some lab work had already been done in this direction. > http://absci.fiu.edu/2014/07/just-because-people-keep-asking/ > > What’s interesting to me is that it supports something I’d read 20+ years ago (in the now defunct Aquarist & Pondkeeper magazine) about Pterois and Dendrochirus spp being found in estuaries in South/Southeast Asia, but not seen much reported in the aquarium literature. I’ve mentioned this online a few times but without experimental work to back it up, have never described these fish as truly euryhaline.> > Overall a reminder that motivated aquarists can (and do) provide useful raw data and observations (breeding behaviour, intraspecific communication to name but two) for the wider ichthyological, biological community. One of relatively few scientific fields where this is the case.> > Cheers, Neale <Does bear sharing. Cheers, BobF> Lionfish, gen. 9/27/09 tank setup, Lions, sys. reading 1/26/08 Hello, I really enjoy lionfish and I want to set up a predator tank with a lionfish and maybe a few others. Since you guys and girls have more experience than I do with saltwater fish, I was just wondering your opinion on at least one maybe two good tankmates for a Pterois volitans. From what I have read, Lionfish don't move around very much in the daytime, so maybe a fish that was more active would make the tank seem livelier. I was think of a Dragon wrasse, or something of that nature. Also, what would be the min. gal required to keep the lionfish and tankmates and also the filtration recommended. <Posted...> I don't have a ton of money to spend and would like to get a tank setup the first time correctly, so that I don't have to spend more money fixing it later. The finally question would be how large of a tank would you recommend just for a lionfish singly. Thank you! <Please read here: http://wetwebmedia.com/lions&rels.htm and the linked files above. Read on, take good notes... More to all this than you posit here. Bob Fenner> Scorpion fish in a small home <Good evening, PF with you tonight> Thank you for all your help. It is a great service you provide. I am in the process of setting up a FOWLR species tank that will house several Leaffish or other small Scorpionfish and/or a Fu Manchu Lion. I would prefer a Stonefish, but I know the 29 is too small for this fish long term. I have successfully kept large Lion's and Groupers for over six years, so I understand the potential for sting. Anyway, the tank is 29 gallons and I will use either an 18 gallon sump with a small refugium or a large spare wet/dry filter and a good protein skimmer. <Well first off, I'd say get a bigger tank, say a 40L. Even for such animals that are relatively inactive, the 29g will be awfully crowded. I'd feel even better with a 55> For these fish would the wet/dry or the sump/refugium be the better choice? I am concerned about nitrate control (from past experience) especially since it is such a small tank. Would I be better off with a DSB of 4" of sugar fine sand in the main tank or something like Carib Sea, sea floor grade at a depth of 3-4" with a small DSB refugium in the sump? Another thought would be to use less than an inch of substrate in the main tank with the in sump refugium? Which would you recommend? I plan to use about 45 lbs. of LR. <I'm always happy to recommend a refugium, and since you're skipping corals even Caulerpa (if you ever plan on putting any corals in there though, skip the Caulerpa and use Chaetomorpha). I assume you'll use the protein skimmer with either setup. In truth, I'd say use all 3, overkill can't hurt with these messy eaters. Remember though, that wet/dries need to be cleaned on a very regular basis. If you do decide on the 29, I'd say go with the 1" of substrate as it will make cleaning easier. If the 40L or the 55, go with a DSB. As I said above, a bigger tank would be #1 on my list, with maybe 10 or so more lbs. of LR, and a fair amount of long handled equipment so you don't end up a statistic. Have a good night, PF> Tryin' With Lions! I am in a little
need of professional advice! <Well, I wouldn't call myself
"professional", but I hope that I can help! Been "around
the reef" a few times! Scott F. with you today!> I have kept
Planted tanks for years, and the lighting was simple! Reef
lighting is so much more complex. <Well, there are sooo many options
and theories out there; it is certainly a bit confusing!> I am a
newcomer to the saltwater side, and this is my planned tank: 85 Gallon
Hexagon Tank 4 tube 55 watt power compact Possibly a single Metal
Halide A live rock tower with cliffs, overhangs, and caves will climb
the back panel of the tank, epoxied for stability, and two
'arms' of live rock will curve out around the bottom towards
the front of the tank, eventually tapering into the 5 inch live sand
bed. <I like the way that sounds...Lots of decorative possibilities-
and a highly "functional" design, too!> All species in
tank will be Indo Pacific. <My favorite place...LOL> Filtration
will be a Remora Pro Skimmer, and a Eheim 2229 wet/dry. I have a magnum
350 to add to this for mechanical filtration if needed. (but I hate how
messy the filter is to start up.) <The Magnum is the "DC3"
of canister filters...They have been around a long time, and seem to
run forever. If you opt to use it for mechanical filtration, you need
to clean/replace the filter pads and/or carbon on a regular basis, as
accumulating organic materials trapped in the media can have a negative
effect on water quality in the long run> I am planning on an initial
stocking over 2 months (after cycling with LR and LS) <Love your
patience! You will be rewarded for it...!> of Electric Blue Hermits,
Trochus Snails, and a few other species of cleanup crew and what not, I
am being specific in my invertebrate choices because I plan on the only
two fish in the tank to be P. Radiata Lionfishes. <Beautiful fishes,
but they do get pretty large (over a foot, in many cases), and can
definitely mess up a tank if your husbandry is not up to par. Be sure
to maintain excellent water conditions through frequent (2 times a
week/5% of tank volume) water changes. Really keep an eye on the filter
media and clean/replace frequently. Glad that these are the only fishes
planned for this tank...At full size, more fish would be
problematic> The ones my LFS gets in are usually about 2 inches
long, so I suspect shrimp could last a while in there, and I have
thought about getting one or two banded or arrow shrimps to take care
of any possible fire worm tag-alongs on the live rock. (will
also do a late night mantis inspection before moving stock in. )
<Sounds like a good plan> Anyhow, provided I give the lionfish a
place to shelter during the day, and the fact that the tank is deep
(over 24 inches I think) do you think the lighting will be a
problem for the lionfish concerning blindness? I want the
fish to be happy in this setup as well, not to just survive it.
<Great attitude! I think that the fish should be fine, as long as
there are adequate places for them to retreat to should lighting be too
bright for them. Keep a close eye on them and adjust as necessary. I
think that the water quality is of even greater importance, so do your
best to keep it as high as possible!> I plan on stocking the tank
with indo-pacific soft and stony corals eventually, along with feather
dusters, Christmas tree worms, brittle stars and perhaps a reef
friendly starfish, and your odds and ends that either the lionfish
won't want to put in their mouths, or are to big, unpleasant, so on
and so forth... <Again- sounds fine...Just keep in mind that the
lions are your "pivotal species" in this tank, so if the
fishes don't like the brighter lighting, your corals may suffer if
you have to back down...Sounds like all should be okay- but observe
carefully nonetheless! Good luck! Regards, Scott F> Thanks so much
for your time and effort. Stephen M. Swinney Quick lionfish/ light question I have a 125 gallon tank FOWLR which is home to a 5.5 inch lionfish. I have two 36 inch pc lights. One light is 192 watts. The other light I am only using one 96 watt actinic blue bulb. Is this OK for the lionfish's eyes? He swims all over the tank but I notice he likes to hang out on the end with the 96 watt actinic blue bulb. There are also a couple of tall plants on this end that he camps under so it is somewhat shaded? Should I also make a cave on the end with lesser lighting or is he OK the way he is? Thanks a lot. Brian <I would provide a darkened area. Bob Fenner> Not Lyin' About Lions Hey all <Hoooooowdy>, If some of you remember I bought a lion fish about 2 months ago for my 75 gal tank. I also have 1 percula clown and 1 yellow tail blue damsel. All is going great I have to say as MR. Lion has grown to about double in size. He was about 4in from tip to tip side fin and about 1 1/2 in head to tail when I bought him. Now his body is around 4in I would say and wow what a spread... My questions are before I got him I had done some searching and was reassured that a 75 would be ok for him. I'm hoping to get a 150 or bigger in the next 2 years but will he outgrow this 75 before then? <At this rate of growth? Definitely. I don't know specifically what kind of lion you have but even the dwarfs aren't so little after 1-2 years. At some point in the very near future, he WILL eat every fish that will fit in his mouth...the damsels, percula, and anything else that you may add to this tank. I had a Pterois in a 100 gallon for less than a year. The last fish he ate was a 6 inch wrasse! It was an expensive, painful lesson to learn...I carried him back to the LFS and received store credit.> If he keeps doubling in size I'm in trouble. <That's for sure. You can slow the growth by feeding less food less often. But...that tactic may just make him hungrier than usual. His tank mates will look even more appetizing!> Anyone have experience with slowing their growth? <You can slow the growth a little (see above) but not stop it. Just like every other living creature, he will either grow or die.> He is always a joy and if he wasn't a venomous fish I know he would eat out of my hands as he is always trying now. <Do be careful. He's cute and dangerous.> I did cut back on his feeding as I was feeding him AM and PM 1 cube of frozen food. I cut that back to 1 cube every other day. He likes the bigger pieces that break off and leaves the little ones for his tank mates or hidden creatures. <Soon you will notice the lion begin to watch those little fish when they come out to feed. That is the beginning of the end. Just like magic, those little fish will suddenly disappear! A sad fact but it is inevitable. Lions are gluttonous and always hungry. They will eat as often as you feed them. > I was thinking of getting some shrimp from the deli but not sure how to go about it. Is there somewhere on the site that explains this? <Just take the whole raw shrimp and put it on a feeding stick and dangle in front of the lions face or drop the shrimp in the water near his face. I assure you, if he sees the food, he will know what to do. When he's done with that he'll eat old shoes, the couch, the television, the cat, the dog...just kidding! You can feed him just about any seafood item from the deli as long as it's not in a shell.> Ok done babbling as always. You all are great and thanks for your time. C <It's my pleasure to help you C. Lions are good tanks mates with fish their own size. Good luck! David D.> Lion Question. Hello, I'm rather new to the hobby, about two months now. I have a 50 gallon tank with a 10 gallon sump, about a 2 gallon bio tower and I'm putting the finishing touches on my skimmer (I've built most of my stuff from DIY sites and everything seems to be working good). My tank finished cycling about two weeks ago, and the fish I have in it are happy. I have a 5 inch Yellow Tang (he had fin damage when I bought him but he's liking his home so much all of his fins are perfect now), his pet Neon Cleaner Goby (much thanks for steering me away from a Wrasse), a Common Clown and I still have the Yellow Tailed Damsel I started the tank with. I recently became rather enamored with the Dwarf Lions. Fortunately, I managed to resist the evil urge if you know what I mean. I just read through all the Lion FAQ's you have posted. Very helpful and informative. Now for the rather odd question. I want to get a lion, but I am planning on keeping my tank peaceful so what I would like to do is add a secondary tank off my main one for the lion to live in. What I was thinking was putting a powerhead in the main tank to run water into the second tank, and then overflow either back into the main tank, or back to the bio tower. What would be your suggestion if this is an ok idea? <I would pump from the sump to each tank separately.> The site states that a dwarf could live in half of 30-40 gallons. So, 15 to 20 gal. <A bit small for my tastes. I would much prefer 30 gallons for this fish.> I know that such small tanks would have problems with keeping levels stable and that's why I want to connect it to my main tank. <Good idea> One thing is, my 50 gallon is somewhat strange in that it is a 55 gallon without the extra height, so its 4 feet long. <A standard 55 is 48" x 12" x 21" ballpark.> If I add a 20 gallon, that would add two and a half more feet onto my total tank size which is a little long for how things are arranged right now. So, I would probably want to try to use a 15 for now. From what I understand, a 15 is just a 10 that is taller? <There are 15 gallon tanks with the same base dimensions as a standard 10 and also some that are a short 20 high.> Would the lion appreciate the extra height, or would a 10 be acceptable if I was hanging it off the 50 in this fashion. <A 10 or a 15 gallon tank seems cramped to me.> From what I have gathered from the site, lions are rather dirty, so I probably would put in an under gravel and maybe a box filter on the second tank to augment things. Is this a good idea? <I would rely on your DIY W/D vs. the UG, too messy.> Also, I have one other question that wasn't addressed in the FAQs. I've read that there was a tank that had two lions in it, and someone cleaned the tank, got stung, and the venom ended up killing the whole tank. <Absurd> While I don't plan on getting stung, (Does anyone?) How big a risk is this? <No risk at all.> If the lion gets startled or tries too aggressively to attack a fish could it release venom and possibly hurt my other fish? <Nope> I respect your advice and if you think its totally a bad idea, the fish will remain in the store where it can be bought by someone who will better care for its needs. I really appreciate all the hard work you have put into your site. It has probably helped save countless fishy lives and is a great resource. Thanks for your patience in reading my rather long mail. Bob <Good luck to you. -Steven Pro> Volitans Lion I know I'm going to get cyber smacked for
this and well deserved I know. My husband thinking he was being a good
man brought me home a lionfish the other day. Yes he had been at
the LFS for 3 weeks and I've seen him eat several times and is
eating here. I was not intending on getting one until I had a qt tank
and had no time to get one when there he stands happy as a lark with a
"gift" for me. Well ok guy is in tank and doing well 3 days
later. <Good... generally tough... often disease free> I have 2
questions do they eat the critters of the night? <As a matter of
fact, yes. A spectacular sight if one dives during crepuscular times
(twixt light and dark) is seeing an individual, or better, a group of
many of the Lionfishes (Pteroinae) "in formation", coming out
(generally hide in cracks during the day) to comb reef bottoms...>
seems like after lights out he is hunting around the base of the rock.
and number 2 are they just a clingy creature everywhere he goes he is
clinging to the rock or in the instance I just caught him my powerhead.
Can you say unplug that thing quick? <Not ten times in a short span
of time> Should I worry about him going around the powerhead?
<Mmm, yes... put something over the intake (a sponge or Bioball) or
move some landscape such that the Lion can't get to the intake>
Obviously he can't get sucked up but is he powerful enough to get
away should the suction grab hold? <Could give him an enormous
hematoma or worse...> Ok more than 2 questions. It's like a
potato chip can't stop with just one. <Now you've got me
fantasizing about Frito-Lay products... yummy> Thanks, You all are
great. Colleen Pittsburgh, PA <Don't know about that. Bob
Fenner> About adding a lionfish I've just bought a 120 gallon
tank. Its huge its 6 feet long. I'm filtering it with a aqua clear
500 and a undergravel system ran by 2 aqua clear 802 powerheads. I have
crush coral as a base. Almost two weeks ago I put 3 fish in my tank to
start the biological cycle. I put 2 damsels and one 2 inch long maroon
clown fish in my huge tank my 120. In two weeks I want to put a 6 or 8
inch long volitans lionfish in my tank. When I introduce my lionfish to
the tank I plan on dumping a bottle of live bacteria in to the tank
also. Is my tank set up too new yet to introduce a lionfish? Will it be
okay in that big of a tank by itself? Does there have to be one dark
spot in the tank for the lionfish to hide? Can the three little fish I
bought cycle out my tank for me? Bob please respond soon thank you.
<<Wowzah! You've certainly dived right into the hobby... A
few things to mention here... I would look into beefing up your
filtration, definitely add a protein skimmer (wait till you see the
gunk the thing will produce), and add some live rock rather than a
"live bacteria" in a bottle to make sure the system is
cycling. Please read over the sections on Marine Set-up, Filtration,
Cycling/Biological Filtration, and Lionfishes posted on our site for
folks just like yourself: Home Page. And, we'll be chatting.
Bob Fenner>> Lionfish in cycling period Dear Mr. Fenner, I will be purchasing my first salt tank in a week or two. I am buying a used 55 gallon tank, stand, hood, crushed coral, skimmer etc. and I'm not sure of the filtration method may have to buy new filter). I'm buying it from a guy who has kept all kinds of fish and only has time for one tank now. I bought and read the Conscientious Marine Aquarist and was very pleased with the book. I plan on starting with a volitans with some live rock. Long term plans are a snowflake moray eel and a antennata lion. My parents insist on using damsels during cycling but the cost of all the damsels is actually more expensive then the lion. And then I have a bunch of damsels to get rid of. My question is this if I am going to keep lionfish in my tank then why not start with a lion? So Lions or damsels? <<Thank you for writing, and your obvious thinking and caring. And very good question re the possibility of "starting" or establishing nutrient cycling with the Lion instead of Damselfishes. I suspect your parents have a concern that you make the system ready with the Damsels rather than risk losing the Lionfishes. I assure you (and them) that Lionfishes actually can be used in place of the Damsels (both are broadly tolerant of higher than average ammonia, nitrite...), but want to propose an alternate plan. To place the live rock, allow it to (re)cure in your system, and once if (the live rock) initiates cycling (as evidenced by the occurrence of ammonia, nitrite, their leaving, some nitrate showing as well as apparent algae growth), THEN place one or both Lionfishes, and leave off with the Damsels (which would be eaten, or returned, or?). Will this plan work? Yes. Please take a look through the many articles, book sections, images and FAQ's posted on our site (yours will soon be too!): Home Page for much more. Bob Fenner>> Tank setup for lionfish Bob, I've really enjoyed reading all of your comments and I thought that you would be the person to ask about a setup for lionfish. I am wanting to purchase several larger aquariums to hold several species of lionfish. Currently I have an Oceanic 58 with a Fu Man Chu and a Radiata. I know that the Radiata will outgrow the tank and I'd like to purchase other larger species as well (Volitans, etc.). I'm thinking that a medium sized tank (75-100 gallons) as well as one large tank (around 200 gallons) will support the kinds of lions that I am looking at purchasing (I'd like to purchase all when young and be able to keep them after they're full grown). <Sounds good so far> What kind of filtration would you recommend for these big waste producers? <Big, and vigorous water movement> I see that you're a big fan of the live rock/Caulerpa in a sump but with as much waste as the lions produce (and don't worry--I don't plan on feeding very often or feeding goldfish) would the amount of live rock that I would have to purchase be cost effective? <It would help a great deal... but as you infer, much mechanical, biological and even chemical filtration is necessary as well> I plan on these being fish-only tanks holding solely lions. If you had to recommend a wet/dry what company makes a good product? <There are many... but Clear for life and Tenecor's products I like for being sturdy> If you think that a sump with rock would be better where should I purchase it? <I'd make it... think about this... not too hard to do... any water holding container that's chemically inert would do as a sump... through-hull fittings...> Currently I have a Tidepool with Chemi-pure, PolyFilters, and a U.V sterilizer on the 58 and everything works well (close to non-detectable nitrates with the water changes). I'm wanting to add a protein skimmer for the 58 and for the other future setups. I'm leaning toward the needle skimmers (I've heard really good things about the DAS) or a spray system (like the AquaC). Which of these two types of skimmers do you recommend? <The needle wheels are the best present technology> Any particular brand better than the others? (The Euro-reef knock offs are fabulous for very large (200+ systems), the Turboflotor 1000 would be fine for the smaller set-ups> Any particular brands that you would steer clear of? <Many, too many to relate here> Finally, will there be any compatibility problems of putting lions of the same species together? <Not really... just tough finding them (many of the smaller ones are reclusive) to make sure they're all getting something to eat...> I've had LFS tell me that they'll all get along well but I know for a fact that this is not always the case. The Fu Man is my favorite and I've had several through the years. However, I've noticed that if you put more than one in a tank they do tend to tear into one another. I don't believe that this is the case with the larger lions (I've never had more than one of the larger lions at any one time so I'm not positive about all species). Can I keep, for example, a group of Radiatas together? <A few of all species, with the proviso that the system(s) are big enough> Thanks for all of your help! Michael Krogman <You're welcome. Bob Fenner > Lionfish trouble Hey Bob, I've run into some trouble with one of my new lionfish. It managed to get stuck in a power head some time during the night. I've moved it to the quarantine tank, it just floats at the top, upside down, with a visible rip just in front of its anal fin (if that's the right name). So, is it a goner, or is there something I can do for the little guy? Thanks for your help, David <Let's hope this one recovers... Lionfish species are known for being very tough and good healers. Yours may not feed for a while (many days), but don't give up hope. Bob Fenner> Lion Fish Bob, I hope you are doing well! Here is my question: I have 110 watts of compact lighting and 35 watts of actinic lighting is this too bright for a lionfish in my 75 gallon ??? I certainly hope not to cause him any eye sight problems.... Thank you in advance, Ryan <Shouldn't be a problem. Bob Fenner> Lionfish and Lighting Concern I just bought a lionfish and read that they were very sensitive to long periods of light. <Mmm, not so much long but intense. Lionfishes can be blinded by too-bright lighting> How long is to long for the lionfish. I have my light set up on a timer its on for 4 - 5 in the morning and then shuts off about 1:00 and then I turn it back on at 5:00 and stays on till 10:00 or so at night Is this to much light. <Please read through the "Lionfish FAQs" posted here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/lionfaqs1.htm and beyond. Your lighting photoperiodicity is fine. Bob Fenner>
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