Scorpionfishes:
Lionfishes & Much More for Marine Aquariums
Diversity, Selection & Care
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by Robert (Bob) Fenner |
|
Feeder shrimp/ghost shrimp
; and as
Lionfish food 1/4/15
Hello everyone at WWM, I have a situation here. I had bought 60 feeder
shrimp from reefs2go, nice size, for a Radiata lionfish I'm getting on
Tuesday. I received the shrimp took them out of the bag and put them
into a container acclimate them. As soon as the drip line started
dripping the shrimp most of them (60) were crawling up and out of the
container. I fixed
a lid on container took drip line off and did the 1/2 cup of saltwater
every 10 minutes. Every time I opened the lid shrimp were crawling out
of container so I just through the shrimp in tank. What a nightmare most
of
them were trying to escape the tank.
<Makes sense if you're a little shrimp being thrown into a small
aquarium with a deadly predator in there! More seriously, temperate zone
(i.e., coldwater) shrimps will naturally "leap" out of overheating
tidepools and the like in a bid to land in deeper, and consequently
cooler, tidepools nearby. Makes sense if the body of water you're in is
overheating and oxygen-poor, and very likely to dry up. In the wild this
strategy makes a lot of sense, and has probably saved the butts of many
shrimps over the years, but in an indoors aquarium it's clearly
suicidal.>
55 gallon tall tank that's been running for over 3 years. Not much in
there, but a pair of maroon clowns and a pair of green Chromis. Most of
the shrimp were climbing out (not a tight cover on tank) my fish really
weren't paying any attention to the shrimp. I called the place were
shrimp were bought and the person on the phone said that "yes the feeder
shrimp were
saltwater and didn't know why my shrimp were escaping told me to check
water). I did, everything was good. QUESTION: Are feeder/ghost shrimp
fresh or saltwater animals?
<Impossible to be sure. Assuming US retailers are getting the same sorts
of shrimps as UK retailers, they're buying, in bulk, cheap shrimps
caught in river estuaries and freshwater marshes. True saltwater shrimp
are much more valuable as human food, and if you're going to the fuss of
dredging a marine habitat to catch shrimp, you're going to sell them for
the best
return aren't you? In the UK, the two species usually seen as "feeder
shrimps" are Palaemon elegans and Palaemon serratus. They're small
estuarine shrimps that tolerate freshwater for a few days and can live
in brackish and marine conditions indefinitely, but will tend to jump
out of tropical tanks after a while (they're much less jumpy in unheated
tanks,
and actually excellent denizens for such tanks). I don't know the
standard feeder shrimp in the US, but can state that a freshwater
species, Palaemonetes paludosus, is regularly sold as such for both
freshwater and marine aquaria. It can live in marine conditions for a
while but not indefinitely, usually long enough to be eaten. This is the
so-called "Grass Shrimp" of the US hobby. Identifying shrimp species is
generally extremely difficult. Can I direct you to the Smithsonian
report on freshwater Palaemonetes for example:
http://www.sil.si.edu/smithsoniancontributions/zoology/pdf_hi/SCTZ-0228.pdf
The collectors of your shrimps probably know what they are because only
a small number of species will be found at any one locality, and
typically just one or two predominate. But without knowing where yours
were collected from, actually identifying a shrimp species will probably
require expert (i.e., PhD-level) expertise.>
And how in the heck am I going to keep these live feeder shrimp to stay
in and stay alive (if freshwater) in my tank long enough for the
lionfish to catch and eat them?
<You really can't, short of a hood or mesh that keeps them in. As
stated, temperate zone shrimps, especially those from truly coldwater
areas, won't put up with tropical conditions for long. Their metabolism
will be going too fast, and the oxygen availability will be too low, for
them to feel at home.>
You can see I don't know what I'm doing with the feeder shrimp I never
had them before? Thank you for your time and knowledge. Brenda
<Do consult with the retailer; ask they what the species was, where
collected; describe your problems. If all else fails, try a few in
brackish and freshwater conditions, at room temperature, and see which
do best.
That'll be empirical evidence at least. Maintain thusly, and remove a
few.
Neale.> Krill and Lockjaw in Lionfish
3/9/13
Good evening!
<Not just quite here PST Brielle>
I am wondering what specific nutritional deficiency/problem that krill
presents in a lionfish's diet.
<Most celebratedly Thiaminase... see WWM re>
I would like to feed my lion pellets, but the second ingredient on most
all pelleted foods I can find is krill. Would the pellets be okay as a
staple food for him anyways?
<Look to the Spectrum line... and Hikari otherwise>
The primary ingredient is herring/fish meal. I also feed him jumbo Mysis
shrimp soaked in Selcon and VitaChem. I certainly don't want to risk
health problems with my antennata. Thank you so much for the advice!
Brielle
<Do try/train this animal on "mixed seafood" that you can buy in parts
in human food stores... Defrosted of course, on a feeding stick. Bob
Fenner>
Re: Krill and Lockjaw in Lionfish
3/10/13
Thank you for the quick reply!
I do have access to both NLS and Hikari.
<Excellent>
I'd like to feed him more of a variety from the grocery store, but I
read somewhere (can't remember where anymore) that these foods are not
sterilized and may contain parasites. Is there any truth to this?
<Are frozen, and almost always expediently processed under "clean"
conditions. I am not any more concerned than in dealing w/ foods
prepared for my and others consumption. Very little chance of issues>
Thanks again! Little Bri
<Ahh! Welcome. BobF>
Volitans Lionfish Not Eating/Odd Behavior... a host of
possibilities, influences 3/18/13
My volitans lionfish <http://www.thereeftank.com/forums/tags.php?tag=lionfish>
has refused food for the last three weeks and is constantly pacing back
and forth in the aquarium; I have not seen him perched in over a week. I
have offered him freeze-dried krill, frozen silversides, shrimp,
scallops, squid,
<... likely a Thiaminase issue then... See WWM re Lionfish
feeding, this issue... the search tool, on every page. Very common w/
folks, Pteroines>
and live Rosie reds (a desperate, last ditch attempt), and have
supplemented a number of these with Garlic Guard. He refused to
acknowledge any of these. Usually I feed him raw shrimp, scallops,
squid, and frozen silversides with occasional krill and I feed off a
wooden kabob skewer. Yesterday he started circling at the top of the
tank non-stop; when I placed the skewer in the tank, he ran into it
without noticing it.
About the lion: he is approximately 8" and I have had him for a little
over 6 months (he was around 5-6" at the time). I fed him daily and he
was always an enthusiastic eater, except occasionally he would ignore
food the day after tank cleaning. He has never needed live feedings and
no fish in the tank bother him.
<Good point>
About the tank: 135 gallon long aquarium that has been set up for 7-8
months. Residents: 5" porcupine puffer, 5"
<This fish could be mal-influencing the Lion>
Foxface, 5"
<And the Siganid might have poked it...>
harlequin tusk, 4" lyretail hogfish, 3" flame angel, 3" coral beauty, and
1" black and white striped damsel. Everyone else is eating and acting
normally (the puffer has started acting a little strangely but I think
that is because the lionfish keeps running into him).
<Ahh, the Lion may be going blind... from too-bright light,
avitaminoses...>
I treated for Ich with copper
<Mmm, a factor>
around 4 months ago and lost no fish (lionfish never had signs of Ich).
My salinity was low last week (around 1.016)
<This could be a factor as well>
but over the course of a few days I raised it to 1.023, which is where
it is now. Ammonia is 0, nitrites are 0, nitrates are a little
high at 40,
<... and this>
pH is around ~8.4, and temp is ~76F. I do weekly 20% water changes. My
light was out for a few days last week, but has since been repaired. I
have had no additions to the tank in the last 3 months.
Any suggestions would be great.
<Just your reading... you'll understand that what you have here is very
likely the result of a simple long-term nutritional condition... IF the
fish will resume feeding (a good chance); and fed suitable fare, it will
survive>
I was thinking of trying Epsom salts in case it is a blockage, but I
wanted your advice first!
Jake
<Bob Fenner>
Non feeding Lionfish - 10/27/2012
Hi WWM crew,
<Gary>
After good responses in the past I have decided as a last resort (in a
good way) to contact you on the above problem.
About 6 months ago I took in a 6 inch Volitans Lionfish from a tank he
had outgrown.
All was well till about 3 weeks ago when the hunger strike started.
<Happens>
I proceeded to read up on the subject and found it not uncommon for this
to happen so didn`t worry too much.
As time went on I read more and I discovered that the food I have been
primarily feeding (whitebait) has the enzyme Thiaminase present..
<Trouble>
I was aware of this problem in the feeding of predatory fish but never
realised whitebait was a bad food source. I had heard of it with regards
to mussels and prawns. Also read your very good article on the subject.
Basically I am wondering if this could have caused the non feeding
problem and also is there anything that can be done.
<Just to switch to other foods post haste... possibly to force feed
(careful!) this animal if need be>
A bit more information is as follows.
The fish has sat in his cave as normal and whereas before he came to the
surface to be fed daily, he now does with increasing rarity.
He will often swim after the food then just swim away without eating.
He has also gone darker in his colouring.
He is housed with a Niger Trigger
<A poor choice of tankmates>
and a lively Regal Tang. These 2 fish don`t directly bother him but do
stop him from feeding as they are so fast, if he doesn`t eat straight
away.
it was fine before as he ate from hand.
I finally sourced some river shrimp
<These can also be a bad source of Thiaminase>
last Saturday but again trouble getting them to him. When I did he
didn`t seem interested.
Thinking it may be the stress of his tankmates or possibly the bad diet
,I have managed to get him rehomed in a QT in The World Museum of
Liverpool.
<Oh! Am headed that way in a few days... out visiting in Bristol
currently>
Just 2 large Horseshoe crabs as tankmates.
He has only been there 24 hours and I have just heard he has again
ignored live river shrimp and live Mysid shrimp.
I have given as much information as possible and was just wondering what
your thoughts were and if there is anything else that could be done.
Thanks
Regards
Gary
<I'd be reading here:
http://wetwebmedia.com/lionfdgfaqs.htm
and looking into New Era pellets... the poss. of force feeding this
fish.
Bob Fenner>
Re: Non feeding Lionfish - 10/27/2012
Thanks Bob.
I will forward this email to Paul at the museum and keep my fingers
crossed.
Enjoy your trip.
Regards
Gary
<Thanks much Gary... am at Southwest Marines currently! Up to York in a
few days. BobF>
Volitans Lionfish lockjaw, deficiency...
10/6/12
I read one other discussion on the topic of lionfish lockjaw, but was
hoping to better understand a few details regarding how to go about
treating this unfortunate situation. I have a 55 gallon FOWLR system
with the following parameters: salinity:1.02, nitrates:0, .5 ammonia,
<Half a ppm of ammonia? Bad>
temperature:78 F, ph:8.2. I have one Volitans lionfish that has grown
from a golf ball size to a cantaloupe size in roughly one year. He is
very friendly and has learned to spit water at you to get a silverside.
He is unfortunately been on a diet of krill and silversides.
<Not good>
I now realize I made a mistake feeding him the krill as he has developed
what seems to be lockjaw (his mouth is open on the right and closed on
the left). He will no longer eat and swims toward the food happily but
gets frustrated, turns a dark red watches it sink to the bottom. I have
decided to give him 7 days (I am currently on day 2) before I attempt to
either adjust his jaw (how to begin is beyond me),
<Carefully... not to get stuck/stung, or break the joint>
or consider trying to fit some food into his mouth using a syringe. I
just am at a loss as to what to do and would hate to watch him starve as
he is such a friendly fish. I would love any creative ideas or a little
bit of advice ( part of me says just to let it run it's course and try
to find a humane way to euthanize him). Any advice would be very
appreciated!
-Stephanie
<Hard to fix at this point... due to nutritional deficiency... You could
try adding HUFA/vitamin mix to the water... hoping... Sometimes this
situation (miraculously) fixes itself. Bob Fenner>
Interesting Lionfish Feeding Tactic
9/23/12
Hello WWM Crew,
<Byron>
Wanted to pass a quick idea past your brains for picking! I am currently
housing a fuzzy dwarf lionfish of about 2.5" in a 40b. Within the first
week of him being introduced he has taken to eating frozen Mysis and
krill from a feeding rod. I am feeding him a few of these every 3 days.
He will attempt to eat anything I put on the rod, but spits out anything
that doesn't look like a shrimp. No go on the squid, silversides, strips
of fresh marine filet etc.
I was thinking tonight and thought I would try something - I used a
small nail to drive a cavity through one of the krill, and then stuffed
it with NLS Formula 1mm pellets - maybe 5-6 would fit in one krill. I
then tried feeding and the lion took them as if nothing was different.
I know that feeding only krill/Mysis has potential to cause nutrition
problems, lockjaw, etc.. I was curious if you felt that being stuffed
with NLS (or some other small pellet of your choosing) would offset
these issues?
<To some degree, yes. I would add a liquid prep. of vitamins and HUFAs
(e.g. Selcon) to the food and the water weekly>
They would certainly seem to make up for any nutrients not found in the
plain krill, but I was not sure if there was some specific compound
found in the Mysis/krill that caused the issues other than a simple lack
of nutrients.
Thanks as always and hope all is well on your end,
Byron
<Thank you, Bob Fenner>
Flake eating Lions
3/27/11
Hi Crew!
<Ben>
Hope this mail find you guys in good health!
<Thank you>
I have a question regarding nutrition and diet of lion fishes. I know
that many can't seem to get their lions to accept frozen food.
However I'm proud to say that I've train all my lions to eat
pallets and flake foods. Though of course it takes time and effort to
move from live feeder to frozen food and now pallets and flakes. Took
me almost 2months to train them. Each new lion undergoes solitary
training until they readily accept flakes and pallets before joining
the rest of the pack in the main tank. I have 9 lions.
<Quite a collection>
Can you tell me if I should just completely switch to pallets and
flakes as its much cheaper and easier to prepare and feed?
will they be getting all nutrition they need?
<There are indeed some completely nutritious foods of both these
formats. I would go w/ pellets over flakes for a few reasons, and am a
big promoter of the Spectrum brand; as you'll find from perusing
WWM. Indeed have seen Pablo Tepoot's Lions. Bob Fenner>
Thanks,
Ben
Lionfish Question: beh., fdg.
3/22/11
First of all, I would like to thank you n advance!
<Welcome>
I have a lion fish that seems to be turning more reddish in color. He
has always seemed to be more of a opal/grey sort of color.
Should I be concerned?
<Mmm, no, not necessarily. Often such colour changes are due to
issues/influences of diet; not portent/s of disease>
The diet is mostly fresh raw shrimp, everyday or every other day, and
occasionally live feeders.
<Mmm, both poor choices... Read here:
http://wetwebmedia.com/lionfdgfaq2.htm
and the linked files...>
I have had him/her for about three years.
In a 110 gal tank with six other fish. The lion is
king'¦"Winning"!
<Pterois charliesheenii?>
Eyes are completely clear.
thanks,
Lee
<Bob Fenner>
Lionfish variations, fdg.
11/30/10
Good evening,
<Howdy Dave>
I have a follow up question. I have access to an unlimited number of
White Shrimp (Litopenaeus vannamei). Ranging from PL to adult. I
imagine this would be a great food for lionfish. However, they have an
extremely sharp rostrum. The rostrum has pierced me before and has
drawn blood.
<Yikes>
I assume they eat critters like this in the wild, but, do you think I
would have an issue if I fed these to the lionfish all of the time?
<Unfortunately, I do.>
Increasing the risk? Or, would you do it without hesitation?
<I myself would not feed these, perhaps not even dead. Have
seen/necropsied many Lions dead from "gut blockage" issues...
I do think they might easily succumb from perforations from these
rostra>
Thanks!
Doc Piscis
<Thank you, Bob Fenner>
Re: Lionfish variations
Once again, your expertise is greatly appreciated. That would have been
a luxury to feed vannamei to lionfish, however, I will definitely
follow your recommendation. I will not feed these to the lionfish.
Take care.
<And you my friend. BobF>
lionfish stop eating 4/21/10
I have had a 10 inch Volitans lionfish for about 2 years now. HE is in
a 150 gallon with a 8 inch Hawaiian black trigger 1 6 inch Picasso
trigger and a four inch undulated trigger.
<"Lions w/ Tigers and Bears oh my!" Too many
too-aggressive tankmates here>
I feed them once every two or three days. salinity is 1.023, temp stays
at 77, nitrates 10ppm, nitrites 0 and ammonia 0. I feed them a mix of
silversides, krill, squid, shrimp, and clams. If this is too fatty,
what are some less fatty alternatives?
<... read here: http://wetwebmedia.com/lionfdgfaq2.htm
and the linked files above>
For the last 3 days, he has just been hanging out in this one spot when
usually when I walk in he is swimming in the front of the tank wanting
me to feed him. What could be wrong with him? This is the first time he
has done this
<Perhaps stress alone, maybe a Thiaminase problem. Read where you
are referred. Bob Fenner>
lionfish no eating, owner no reading
4/27/10
my lionfish hasn't eaten in 4 days. His stomach looks a little
swollen and he has a piece of string bowel hanging out of his anus. It
is 150 gallon fish tank. Water is perfect. I have had him for two years
with a Hawaiian black trigger, undulated, and Picasso.
<Did you send this before? These fishes are too aggressive to have
w/ a Lion>
Everyone gets along fine but I want to know if there is anything I can
do because he might be constipated. I feed them mixed varieties of
krill, squid, silver sides, shrimp, and clam strips. How can I help him
pass the bowel and feel better?
<... Read, re-read here: http://wetwebmedia.com/lionfdgfaq2.htm
where your last email is archived... B>
Lionfish fasting 3/19/10
Hi there,
<Patrick>
I've had a lionfish for about 2 years. He's been voracious for
that entire time up until about two weeks ago. The store I bought him
from was feeding him live fresh water feeders, since I have had him he
has eaten only fresh/frozen supermarket fish and an unfortunate group
of peppermint shrimp. He is roughly 9 or so inches in total length and
in a 92 corner with a Kidako moray and a small male epaulette shark
(about 10 inches,
<Ahh, much too crowded... physiologically and psychologically. The
Moray and Shark may well get badly "poked" by the Lion
here>
he is being grown out for a 800 gallon pond that currently houses two
24" females). Water parameters are near perfect (0,0, >20ppm)
76 degrees or so with ample filtration and regular water changes.
Visually I can see no signs of disease or damage. His behavior has
changed however; he used to react immediately by backing away if I
approached too close to the tank, now he just kind of stares (eyes are
not cloudy). He also spends a great deal of time resting on the bottom,
and also "shovels", sticking his face out of the water at the
surface. He has refused all food I've offered.
<... Psychological... crowding...>
I did some reading before writing you; I understand that feeding the
same type of food for extended periods can cause intestinal blockage,
which I think is likely at this point. I have had him on diced whole
shrimp for perhaps a couple months for lack of squid/smelt/other foods.
One of the remedies I found was a fresh water dip to evacuate the
bowels... does this sound right?
Any help would be great.
Regards,
Pat C.
<This fish needs to be moved elsewhere. I'd be returning it to
the store.
Bob Fenner>
Re: Lionfish fasting -- 03/19/10
Bob,
<Patrick>
I've been writing you guys for almost as long as I've been
keeping fish and always found you to be a valuable resource, so please
forgive me for saying I don't find this response to be constructive
at all... in your own article
on lionfish you suggest "30-40 gallons per adult Pterois"
<Mmm, an olde piece... For adults... a nine inch specimen, I'd
allow a good 50-60 gal.s for its own in a large/r system>
and given that each of the three fish in this tank occupy a different
section of the water column I did not see any issues, nor have I ever
observed any signs of distress in any of them. I would assume that
psychological issues develop over time; this manifested itself as if
someone had flicked a light switch overnight.
<Oh?>
I'm also not sure why you'd suggest returned this fish to the
store I bought it at 2 years ago that, as I mentioned, was feeding it
goldfish. If you felt it needs to be moved to a large tank, you could
have said so.
<Please do>
I know you guys get a tremendous volume of emails, some of them from
folks that cram appalling numbers of fish into frustratingly small
tanks, and that WWM is a tremendous free resource build by passionate
people like you
for curious people like me. I just feel that I'm being treated like
a novice, and my question wasn't really answered. I'll try the
freshwater dip, large water change and move him to my 180.
-Pat C.
<Thank you for this input. BobF>
Re: Lionfish fasting 4/1/10
Hi Bob,
<Pat>
Just to follow up- I did a FW dip with the lionfish. I used 3 gallons
of spring water, floated them over night in the tank to bring them up
to temperature and added stress coat. I dipped him twice for three
minutes each time, with an hour in between. As of today he's eaten
three times since the dip and appears to be returning to his old self.
I did not see him defecate, so I'm not sure if he was impacted, or
if it was some kind of internal parasite. I'm going to give him a
month or so to recover fully and then move him to my 150.
Thx,
Pat C.
<Thank you for this follow-up. BobF>
sick lion fish... lack of data,
reading -- 1/21/10
hi there. I am having a problem with my lion fish. He was over fed two
weeks ago and now he wont eat ANYTHING. Its very unlike him. As far as
his looks, he looks healthy, no sign of disease or anything, but his
behavior has me worried. like I said, he has not eaten in two weeks,
and he likes to stay in one remote area for most of his time now,
instead of swimming around. I have also noticed that his gills are
constantly flared or it
seems that he's having trouble breathing or something. I don't know,
I'm so confused. I have had people come out and change the water,
do whatever tests they do...and nothing. I'm lost. please help.
<We need more data than this. How big is the aquarium? What's
the water quality like? And the water chemistry/salinity? Are there any
other fish in this system? In terms of diet, most people cause problems
with Pterois by feeding them "feeder fish", typically
Goldfish and Minnows. It's no secret that ethically I'm against
this, but when it comes to saltwater fish, the use of feeder fish goes
beyond ethics and into bad husbandry. Bob Fenner
has written about how often Lionfish that have died prematurely turn
out to have unnatural amounts of fat around their internal organs. And
guess what, Goldfish and Minnows contain much more fat than the normal
prey Lionfish
would eat. Indeed, Bob argues that feeder fish are likely a major,
perhaps THE major, cause of premature mortality among the Scorpaeniform
fish we keep as pets.
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/lions&rels2.htm
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/goldfshfd.htm
Marco Lichtenberger has recently summarised the danger posed by
Thiaminase.
If predatory fish get too much of this enzyme in their diet, they
suffer all sorts of problems cause by vitamin B1 deficiency. Guess what
again, Goldfish and Minnows both contain lots of Thiaminase.
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/ca/volume_6/volume_6_1/thiaminase.htm
In short, there are no good reasons to use freshwater feeder fish when
feeding Lionfish, and lots of scientific reasons why it's a bad
idea. If you're deep of pocket, you might be able to use saltwater
feeders such as
marine killifish, Cyprinodon spp., but why bother? In general, Lionfish
can be weaned onto frozen foods more or less easily depending on the
patience of the fishkeeper. They can go without food for a couple of
weeks, so a
trial of wills is okay. Just so long as you win! More importantly, you
need to offer a variety of prey. Feeding just one thing, such as
prawns, would be daft. Alternative live or wet-frozen foods should be
used through the
week, and part of the trick is training your pet to feed (from forceps)
whatever you offer it. So, in short, review basic environmental
conditions.
Lionfish are hardy, but they need big tanks (75 gallons upwards) with
good water quality and stable water chemistry. These fish will lose
their appetite if stressed. It goes without saying that if you dump
half a dozen
feeder fish into the aquarium, you'll ruin water quality. Check you
haven't been using the wrong type of food. Make sure you
haven't been overfeeding.
And if you're weaning onto alternative foods, don't stick to
just one thing, but offer a variety, and use forceps or a piece of
cotton to dangle to food enticingly until the Lionfish bites. Cheers,
Neale.>
Lionfish feeding 11/29/09
I was reading through the FAQ's on your site on how to improve my
feeding methods once I get my lion, but I ran into some questions. I
know freshwater feeders are a poor choice,
<More specifically, cyprinids are poor feeder fish, and anything
bought from a pet store is very risky. Home-reared and gut-loaded
saltwater and brackish water fish, such as livebearers and killifish
are safe, but they're expensive, and so not really viable on that
basis more than any other. Some aquarists relate increased aggression
levels between Pterois and other predatory fish down to the use of
feeder fish, though why this should be is a mystery to me at
least.>
but I've read that mainly silversides are a poor choice too and in
one post, one of your members said that the problem may have arisen
from a diet purely consisting of frozen food. I planned to use a mix of
squid, shrimp,
oyster or clam, and three different types of fish from my local market
that I would clean, cut up into cubes and then put in the freezer-would
this be okay?
<Yes; do read Marco's excellent article on Thiaminase, since
that's the prime issue. Mussels and prawns are particularly rich in
Thiaminase.
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/ca/volume_6/volume_6_1/thiaminase.htm
Tilapia fillet is a cheap and easily obtained source of white fish, and
so far as I know, doesn't contain much Thiaminase at all. This is,
among other things, what I feed my current predatory fish (two
Ctenolucius hujeta
characins). But varying the diet is paramount, so that anything lacking
in one food is made up for with another. In short, the more different
things you offer, the better. Hand-feeding is a key step, though by
this I mean through the use of forceps rather than fingertips. Once
"trained", predatory fish will accept almost anything offered
to them, so you can easily give them things they wouldn't normally
take in the wild. The use of a vitamin supplement is a very good
insurance policy, but stuffing Spirulina flake or a quality food like
Hikari micro pellets into whatever meat is being offered works almost
as well.>
Another one of your members said to have a varied diet is the best
choice, but the other said 100% frozen=possible problems (but He/She
did not emphasize on what the frozen food consisted of though).
Thanks.
<It is certainly possible, indeed desirable, to wean all predatory
fish onto an all-frozen diet. Hope this helps. Cheers, Neale.>
Re: Dwarf Freshwater Puffers and Oscars
9/16/09
Thanks for all the tips on feeding! I bought some frozen brine for the
Oscars and silversides for the lionfish. I don't have tweezers or
forceps but I did try to carefully dangle a silverside at the water
surface and Lucifer the Lionfish struck almost instantly.
<Glad to hear it! Now, mix things up as much as possible. The more
variety you offer, the healthier your Lionfish and the less likely he
will be to go on a hunger strike. Feel free to "gut load" the
lancefish with some
Spirulina flake by ramming the flakes into the abdomen or mouth of the
thing. Get the vitamins into the Lionfish that way, and you won't
have much to worry about.>
Oscars are eating great now too. Thanks!
<You are most welcome. Cheers, Neale.>
Happy Update (Bob, do read and comment on Pterois
if required) 09/24/09
Hey guys I just wanted to send a quick e-mail to say that I really
appreciate a website like yours.
<I'm sure Bob and everyone else where will be please to hear
this.>
I think your website is an amazing wealth of information not just to
me, but to everyone in the hobby. I work at a LFS so every time I
can't answer a question I refer them to this site.
<Great!>
Again I just thought I would right an email to let you guys know I have
been following all the advice I find on the website and through asking
questions. My Oscars are all growing and have healthy appetites and
after only 2 weeks with them I can already tell their individual
personalities.
<Wonderful fish for just this reason. Great "pets" in the
full sense of the word.>
My lionfish is also greedily accepting frozen foods now without me
having to make it seem alive.
<Victory! Yes, this is what happens once they "learn" that
when you approach the tank, something edible appears. Instead of their
feeding instinct being triggered by a wriggling live fish or whatever,
it's triggered by seeing you.>
Since the 125 he resides in is so lonely looking now I am thinking of
adding one of the more easy going triggerfish (Pinktail), and maybe
some dwarf fuzzy lions.
<Bob might have comments to make here, but broadly, I'd keep
Triggers away from Lionfish. The risk of nipping is just too great.
Melichthys vidua is certainly a contender for the title of Most Placid
Trigger, but still...
pushing your luck I fear. How about something less nippy but equally
lively? Like a Hogfish? As for mixing Lionfish species, it's
certainly possible, and some species are gregarious in the wild, but
you need ample space for those species that are intolerant of
conspecifics. It goes without saying that a big Lionfish might view a
small one as food, with obviously fatal consequences for both
parties!>
My only other tankmates I might consider are a maroon clown, or a
bullseye Jawfish after I research the adult size on the later.
<Jawfish would be Lionfish food; Maroon Clown a gamble, and probably
a risk one, even for a "friendly" Lionfish weaned onto other
foods. Anything that can be swallowed, or even looks like it might be
swallowed, will be swallowed. Lionfish are top predators in their
habitat, and view small perciforms as food. Would suggest looking at
Labrids, Hogfish, perhaps hardy Angels like French Angels as
tankmates.>
Once again you guys are the best. Thanks! -Ray
<Cheers, Neale.><<I agree with you, your stmt.s Neale.
RMF>>
Lion Question... fdg. 9/7/09
Hi again. Your help and advice has been extremely useful thus far. I
now have an issue with a lionfish I purchased which I can't find
the answer to.
It's regarding to him eating. I purchased a Volitans about 2 weeks
ago from a store. He's about 6inches long. I did see him eat two
bits of frozen prawn at the store. He was in a tank with 3 others
around his size. When I took him home I acclimatised, not quarantined,
him and fed him some more bits of prawn, at night with the lights out,
over a couple of days, which he ate. Ever since, however, he refuses to
eat anything I offer him. It's been about two weeks since his last
meal. I tried frozen prawn, clam and squid and even put two mollies in
there. He initially chased the mollies but then gave up. I can't
seem to find ghost shrimp anywhere. He doesn't hide at all, but
tends to sit on a rock all day long. The tank is around 550 litres with
LR only. Filtration is more than required. His tank mates are a 5 inch
harlequin tusk, 5 inch fox face and a 3 inch Picasso, none of which
bully him, or that I have seen anyway.
<Won't necessarily see this... though is occurring>
All important water parameters are excellent, as confirmed by the
store.
The temp. is set to 25 deg, of which I was told by the same store to
raise it as high as 27? I have noticed very slightly "cloudy"
eyes with minor scratches(?) on them, but nothing that looks too
serious.
<Mmmm, what re water quality test results? In particular nitrate
readings>
The store is kind enough to either exchange it or offer store credit.
Is it worth the hassle of going through this whole ordeal again, or
should I be patient and not give up?
<I urge patience>
My thoughts are he is still acclimatising, or is full, or is actually
being bullied when I'm not around. Any help would be greatly
appreciated.
Apologies for the lengthy email but I've tried to include as much
info as possible.
Kind regards,
John Catanzariti
<Please read here: http://wetwebmedia.com/lionfdgfaq2.htm
and the linked files above. Bob Fenner>
Lionfish not eating -- suggestions?
Reading 8/19/09
Hi, crew. I'm having an issue with my lionfish. I know that they
can go on "hunger strikes" but I'm seeing an odd specific
behavior that I wanted to consult you guys about.
<Did you read before writing?>
I have a 120 gallon reef tank. Vital stats as follows: Temp ~ 80 (fan
over the water full-time); pH ~ 8.1; salinity ~ 1.025; Ca ~ 350; Alk ~
3.5 meq/l; PO4, NO3 ~ 0.
<Zip? Really? How? Chemical filtrant may be at fault here>
I run a sump with a Euro-Reef skimmer (forgot the model, but it's
the recommended size for the water volume), activated carbon in a
fluidized bed filter, and have a small refugium. Lighting is 8x54w T5
(10K and AquaBlue).
Circulation is via a 1270 gal/hr pump, plus a VorTech pump.
Inhabitants are a yellow tang, barred ("dragon") goby,
Christmas wrasse, a few damsels, a long-nosed Hawkfish, starry blenny,
and a Radiata lionfish.
I have what I now know to be an unfortunate collection of corals (hence
the carbon...): frogspawn, green star polyps, a leather, a Galaxea,
plus a random assortment of yellow and button Zoanthids and Palys, plus
some random mushrooms.
<These might be "warring", poisoning the system,
but...>
There's also a fair amount of xenia in there (a few different
varieties) plus a rather unhappy Montipora capricornis.
One significant thing is that I have been battling a bad Bryopsis
outbreak -- like, it has taken over the tank -- and have tried lots of
different approaches: reducing feeding, Phosban,
<I would discontinue the use of this material>
increasing pH, and, most recently, increasing magnesium. I brought
levels up to about 1800.
<And this... way too high in proportion to Ca... should be about
three times... as much>
Perhaps I did this too fast, because...
A little over a week ago, I noticed a sudden change in the health of
the tank. The Montipora bleached badly; the frogspawn was retracted;
and the lionfish was hiding in the corner (unusual). No other critters
seemed affected. I did an immediate 20 gallon water change which seemed
to stabilize the corals. I have since done another one, and will do a
third tonight
<Likely the disproportionality>
Now, for the lion: he spent about three days in the corner acting very
lethargic. Usually, right about lights-out, he starts patrolling the
reef looking for food. He didn't leave his cave. He also usually
"alerts" when I open the lid of the aquarium, waiting for
food (he gets a krill, or a piece of shrimp, scallop, or squid, about
three times per week).
<This is a problem too... These foods are too fatty as a steady
diet>
Feedings ten and seven days ago, he never even noticed the presence of
the food. Just sat there. A few days ago, he came out at feeding time,
"hunted" the krill (his favorite), but his feeding strike was
very weak, not nearly enough to "suck in" the food. He did
the same this morning. He "cornered" the krill, waving his
fins and tail, looking eager; closed to feeding distance; and then did
this little "kiss" strike. Then, swam away.
Does this sound at all familiar?
<Yes...>
We absolutely adore this fish, and don't want to lose him.
Thanks,
Dan
<Read here: http://wetwebmedia.com/lions&rels.htm
and the linked files above... and the subjects I mention... search and
read re them on WWM. Your problems are iatrogenic; self-induced. Bob
Fenner>
Re: Lionfish not eating -- suggestions?
8/20/09
Bob,
<Dan>
Thanks for your prompt reply and the valuable information. I was hoping
to clarify a few points, if I may.
> Hi, crew. I'm having an issue with my lionfish. I know that
they can go on "hunger strikes" but I'm
> seeing an odd specific behavior that I wanted to consult you guys
about.
> <Did you read before writing?>
Yes, I'm actually an avid reader of WWM. Since I got your reply
last night, I re-read most of the lionfish feeding and disease FAQs
just to be sure.
<<I see; good>>
> NO3 ~ 0.
> <Zip? Really? How? Chemical filtrant may be at fault
here>
I have never had measurable nitrate in my tank, post-cycle (at least,
it's well under 10 -- I haven't gotten a high-sensitivity
test). It could be my 4" DSB with plenum; or the algae in the tank
is scavenging all available nitrate and phosphate(?).
<<Thank you for this. As you know, high NO3 by itself can be a
"cause" here>>
> One significant thing is that I have been battling a bad Bryopsis
outbreak -- like, it has taken over the tank -- and have tried lots of
different approaches: reducing feeding, Phosban,
> <I would discontinue the use of this material>
I did as soon as I started seeing the problems.
> increasing pH, and, most recently, increasing magnesium. I brought
levels
> up to about 1800.
> <And this... way too high in proportion to Ca... should be
about three times... as much>
This was a deliberate action after reading the numerous success stories
on Reef Central regarding the use of increased magnesium to combat
Bryopsis.
I recognized that this was out of "norm" but the anecdotal
evidence was strong (and others reported no detrimental effects to
their corals/fish).
<<Did this work for you?>>
> [the lionfish] gets a krill, or a piece of shrimp, scallop, or
squid, about three times per week).
> <This is a problem too... These foods are too fatty as a steady
diet>
This is the main point I wanted clarification on. I chose this diet
when I got the fish (about two years ago) based on suggestions from
WWM. Upon re-reading the FAQs, this is the sort of diet suggested by
many of your crew ("various meaty foods of marine origin"). I
have tried adding silversides to the rotation, but the lion doesn't
like them as much as the others. What specific changes would you make
to this diet?
<<Wean the fish off the fatty foods... try adding some other cut
or whole marine fish to the diet>>
> A few days ago, he came out at feeding time, "hunted"
the krill (his favorite), but his feeding strike was very weak,
> not nearly enough to "suck in" the food... Does this
sound at all familiar?
> <Yes...>
I read the FAQs but never saw this particular issue described. There
were several instances of jaw maladies where jaw
breakages/dislocations/"lock-jaw" were noted, but I
haven't seen that with my fish. Others described their lionfish
being completely uninterested in food, but I'm not seeing that
here.
<<My experience is broader than what is presented in
writing>>
Aside from continued water changes (did another 20 gal this morning)
and stopping the chemical filtration (done a week ago), do you have any
specific recommendations as to how to proceed?
<<Nothing that is novel. I might try a feeding stimulant/soak on
any offered foods... vitamins, HUFA mix>>
Best regards, and thanks again for your time.
Dan
<<And you for yours Dan. BobF>>
Re: Lionfish not eating -- suggestions?
8/21/09
> [Re: Mg at 1800+]
> This was a deliberate action after reading the numerous success
stories on Reef Central regarding the use of increased magnesium to
combat Bryopsis. I recognized that this was out of "norm" but
the anecdotal evidence was strong (and others reported no detrimental
effects to their corals/fish).
> <<Did this work for you?>>
Hard to say. The Bryopsis has declined over the weeks/months due to
diligent manual removal, a decrease in feeding, phosphate removal, etc.
I started seeing problems with my tank as the Mg levels got to
"target" levels (1700-1800), and I immediately initiated
water changes, so it's really tough to say one way or the other the
effects of this particular component. In short, the approach was not
very scientific. I will continue with the manual removal and nutrient
deprivation approaches until I get things stabilized.
> [the lionfish] gets a krill, or a piece of shrimp, scallop, or
squid, about three times per week).
> <This is a problem too... These foods are too fatty as a steady
diet>
Based on my culinary experience, shrimp, scallop, and squid are very
difficult to cook correctly, presumably due to their *low* fat content.
An internet search confirmed this: shrimp, scallop, and squid have
about 1.4g/fat per 3.5 oz serving. For comparison, this is about the
same as cod, haddock, flounder, sole, or snapper; and about a quarter
(or less) that of swordfish, tuna, or salmon; and 2-3 fold less than
chicken breast.
In short, they are about the least fatty marine foods available --
perhaps they have the wrong (non-HUFA) fats?
See:
http://www.holisticonline.com/Remedies/weight/weight_table-fat-content-of-foods2.htm
<Are more concentrated with fats that are harder to digest than fish
flesh>
I will write back when I have definitive results with my lionfish. Next
feeding attempt will be tomorrow.
Thanks again,
Dan
<Do try some live ghost shrimp if all else is being refused.
B>
Lionfish Blindness: Lionfish Health, Feeding, and
Lighting 8/11/2009
Hi,
<Hi George>
I have an 8" Volitans Lionfish. I have had him for approx. 10
months. He has always displayed normal behavior. For the last 2 weeks
he has been very finicky and has been eating very little.
<Feeding strikes aren't uncommon, what are you feeding
him?>
The last 4 days he wont eat. Now he is swimming erratically especially
at the top of the tank and he is running into the glass and other
objects in the tank. He appears that he can not see.
<Lionfish blindness has a few possible causes:
1. Poor Diet
2. Intense lighting
3. Old Age\Cataracts (Aggravated by the first two causes)
Follow this link - there has been much written about this subject:
http://www.google.com/custom?hl2=en&cof2=GALT%3A%23008000%3BGL%3A1%3BDIV%3A%
23336699%3BVLC%3A663399%3BAH%3Acenter%3BBGC%3A99C9FF%3BLBGC%3A336699%
3BALC%3A0000FF%3BLC%3A0000FF%3BT%3A000000%3BGFNT%3A0000FF%3BGIMP%3A
0000FF%3BFORID%3A1%3B&oe2=ISO-8859-1&ie2=ISO-8859-1&forid2=1&domains2=www.WetWebMedia.com&q=lionfish+blindness&sa=
Search&sitesearch=www.WetWebMedia.com&client2=pub-4522
959445250520 >
He does not respond to me. His color has darkened, other than that I
don't see any other physical changes. I have checked all of the
water parameters and they are all normal. Nothing has changed in the
tank and all the other fish appear fine. We lost a lionfish last year
at about the same age. He was displaying this same behavior before he
died. I can not find a vet in the area with any knowledge of lionfish.
Is there anything you can suggest?
We really don't want to lose another Lion.
<Do read the above linked files>
Thanks,
George
<MikeV>
Re: Lionfish Blindness: Lionfish Health, Feeding,
and Lighting 8/13/2009
Hi Mike,
<Hi George.>
Thank you for your response.
<My pleasure.>
We have been feeding him silversides and thawed frozen shrimp. About a
month ago he began rejecting the silversides, so he has been eating
only the shrimp. We also supplement with fish solutions, although only
on non feeding
days. We have been feeding every other day.
<May want to try some different foods - squid, perhaps some
clam.>
The lionfish is only about 1 1/2 years old, so I don't think
it's due to old age.
<Ok>
After watching him the last few days, I am convinced he can not see. He
is running into everything.
<If it is nutritional, the blindness can be at least partially
reversed.
How much lighting is in the tank?>
He is also sticking his head out of the water like he is trying to get
air, but there is plenty of aeration in the tank and none of the other
fish are displaying abnormal behavior.
<Hmm....... what do your water tests reveal?>
I will read the link and we are open to any other suggestions you may
have.
<Keep the lights dim for a couple of days, do look into soaking
foods in Selcon - a very good vitamin supplement.>
Thank you.
George
<MikeV>
Re: Lionfish Blindness: Lionfish Health, Feeding,
and Lighting 8/19/2009
Hi Mike,
<Hi George, I apologize for the delay in getting back with you, I
was sent out of town on business.>
We only use the actinic lights in the tank, so it's not bright.
<Hmm... I wonder......Actinic lighting is actually more for our
benefit than for anything in the tank. I would try to get this fish
under some regular light as well.>
I have stepped up using the "Fish Solutions" supplement every
day.
He won't eat anything. I tap him on his mouth with the shrimp and
he just backs away.
<Not a good sign.>
The water test are all perfect. The only one that is up a little is
nitrate, but that's only 15-25 and this is a fish only tank, so
that should not be too high.
<I agree.>
The big problem is his blindness. I don't think he is going to eat
because of it. I think this is the same thing that happened to our last
lion. He finally starved to death after about 7 weeks without
eating.
It is strange to us that both lions appear to have the same behavior
after about the same amount of time in the tank. Since the ammonia, ph,
nitrate, nitrites and salinity are fine, and all the other fish are
fine, I can't imagine it is the tank, but it makes me wonder. Is
there something else I should check?
<Beyond using some real light - something in the 6700 - 10000K
range, no.>
I have noticed a lot of small white worms, very thin smooth red worms
and large bristle worm in my fuge. Also, what appears to be a large
blob of red algae. Is any of this harmful?
<Not harmful - actually signs of a healthy fuge.>
For now I have disconnected the fuge from the tank until I know. None
of the other fish are displaying any abnormal behavior.
<Try some real light and see if that helps. Also keep up with
nutritious foods.>
Thanks again,
George
<MikeV>
Re: Help! Is my tank to big for lionfish to see
food?, Feeder Fish 8/18/09
Hey Chris, thanks for the quick reply!
<Welcome>
Well my water parameter are good, both ammonia and nitrate and nitrate
are showing 0 and also there are two Clownfishes in it.
<Ok, but if the clowns are small enough to fit in the lion's
mouth they will eventually become expensive lion food.>
The thank has been cycling for a month plus already before purchasing
the fu Manchu. Well I did what you said and I tried using ghost shrimp
and it works!
<Good, now to start training him on non-live foods.>
Thanks a lot for the fast and efficient reply! For the fish colouring,
its pretty strong and bold, no pale colouring or whatsoever. When I
first placed him in the tank 5 days ago, he straight away retreated
into the rocks for shelter but no less then 2 hours later he emerged
and was pretty much exploring and he wasn't affected by my
presence.
<Good>
One thing I would like to clarify is , is it possible to place another
dwarf fuzzy lionfish in?
<Not in this sized tank.>
I`m truly in love with lionfish and would love to set up an all
lionfish tank. Cheers and thanks a lot Chris!
<Would have to be a good sized tank with oversized filtration to
handle multiples for these relatively messy fish.>
<Chris>
Re: Help! is my tank to big for lionfish to see
food? 8/18/09
Hey Chris, thanks again for the fast reply!
<Welcome>
Anyway, as you said, my clownfish disappear, but I have no idea if its
my octopus or lionfish, I just placed the octopus inside yesterday
cause my other tank wasn't ready yet, anyway, what size tank would
you recommend if I wish to keep a total of 3 lionfish?
<I would go with a 100G as the bare minimum for 3 dwarf lionfish.
Careful with the octopus, you may end up with no fish pretty quick and
a dead octopus on your floor after he leaves the tank.>
<Chris>
Re: help! is my tank to big for lionfish to see
food? 8/18/09
Would the octopus eat the lionfish?
<Unlikely put possible.>
Doesn't the lionfish sting affect the octopus?
<Don't underestimate the craftiness of the highly intelligent
octopus.>
The octopus is really small, the mantle is about 1 and a half inch, the
lionfish is 3 inches.
<Ever seem the video of the octopus attacking and killing sharks in
the public aquarium? Not saying this will definitely happen here, but
there is a reason most people keep octopus in dedicated tanks that are
well sealed
to prevent escape.>
<Chris>
LIONFISH NOT EATING, reading
7/11/09
Thanks in advance for all your help.
I have a volitans lion that has been in the 75g tank with 80lbs
liverock for about 8 months. He been hand fed since about 1 month in
the tank, scallops, and raw shrimp primarily cut up into small
pieces.
<Mmm, too fatty a diet...>
While I was out of town for the weekend of May 30, a palm sized Sailfin
tank in the tank totally disappeared. Not on the floor, or anywhere in
the tank. There is a hermit crab in the tank and a sand star.
<These may have consumed a good deal of the Zebrasoma...>
The only other fish in the tank are the lion, about 5" long and a
snowflake eel about 12" long.
<Not these>
The tank is as escape proof as I could make it due to the eel. I think
the tang was too large for the lion to eat but he hasn't eaten
since then.
He will swim up to food and attempt to suck the piece in briefly but
won't eat it or take it in his mouth. Last week I tried live ghost
shrimp but no luck. Today I tried ghost shrimp and feeder fish.
<A poor idea...>
He chases them around the tank, lunges at them but doesn't take
them in.
It seems that it may be
lockjaw but I couldn't find how to treat it in the FAQs. Please
advise.
Thanks,
Sid
<Please read: http://wetwebmedia.com/lionfdgfaqs.htm
and the linked files above. Bob Fenner>
LIONFISH NOT EATING II 7/14/09
Bob,
I added Iodine supplement to the tank after 50% water change. How can I
force feed the fish? I've searched the FAQs with no luck. I have
frozen mysis that I could make into a slurry and inject in mouth with
tube and syringe, but didn't know if I should attempt to pry his
mouth open to get the tube in. Any tips (other then avoiding the spines
and minimizing time out of the water)?
Thanks,
Sid
<Go here:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/WWMAdminSubWebIndex/question_page.htm
In the search tool put in the string:
Force feeding fish
Read the cached views. RMF>
Lionfish question 5/17/09
I have a lionfish that hasn't eaten in 8 days and is losing his
color.
<Was he eating previously or is he a new addition?>
The stripes on his sides are turning white and I have tried frozen
krill and silversides to no avail. I would try live food but between my
Niger trigger, dogface puffer and porcupine puffer they don't stand
a chance.
<Tankmates may very well be the issue here, what size tank is
this?>
Is there any medicated drops I can put in the water.
<Even if we could diagnose an ailment to treat the fish would need
to be removed to a separate quarantine tank. For the time being I would
move the
fish to a less aggressive setting and try some live food, weaning it to
frozen once it is eating fine.>
I don't have another tank to put him in so I was hoping there was
something I can do with the tank I have him in now. Please help.
<Not really. You could always partition off part of the tank for
him, but it is best to find a more suitable home for the
lionfish.>
Nathan
<Scott V.>
Can I add food coloring to food for finicky lion
fish
Finicky Lionfish- Better Red Than ??? (Feeding Issue) --
04/07/09
Hey, thanks for everything you do.
<Glad to be here for you! Scott F. in tonight.>
Long time lurker, first time writer. My lionfish will only eat the red
colored food found in the frozen variety
packs of fish food.
<Really? Interesting...>
I would like him to eat the squid, scallops, or shrimp I purchased from
the market, but he ignores any food that is not red. I have tried
holding off till he is good and hungry, but to no avail. I want to add
red food coloring to the other foods, but my wife thinks that would be
a very bad idea.
<I have a better idea. Read on.>
Would food coloring do harm to the lion or other inhabitants of the
tank? Thanks in advance.
-Henry
<Well, Henry, couldn't say one way or another if food coloring
is good or bad, but I say, why bother? You can "color" food
red with a really great nutritional supplement, Boyd Vita Chem. This
stuff is red in color, and is a very good product that I have used for
years. I soak foods like mysis, chopped seafoods, brine shrimp, etc. in
this stuff for about 10-15 minutes or so until it soaks into the food,
imparting a red color to the food! As far as your Lionfish's
apparent fixation on red- I couldn't begin to guess why. Is there
some visual clue, or perhaps it's simply coincidence that the foods
he/she is attracted to happen to be red in color? Who knows? All I can
tell you is that you should definitely try to get the fish to eat a
variety of foods of marine origin, and if the Vita Chem soak satisfies
the fish's red "fetish", go for it! Hope this helps!
Regards, Scott F.>
Lionfish Health\Feeding 4/3/2009
Hi Guys
<Hi Peter>
Just looking at your site and was checking some of the other peoples
blogs, but can you help me?
<Will certainly try>
I have been keeping marines for about 12 months, I started with a very
small 2 foot tank. My water parameters have always been okay. Ammonia 0
Nitrite 0 PH 8.2 and sal 1.024, however I have always
struggled to keep my nitrates down. I moved to a bigger tank 180 ltr
and I still have the problem with the nitrates, they are at 40 - 50
ppm, tried 10% changes every other day.
<What else is in the tank with it?>
In the new tank (set up in Dec 2008) I have about 4 inches of coral
sand and about 40 - 50 kg.s of live rock, I run a V2 400 protein skimmer
a Fluval 205 ex filter, and a power head. The filter has reefresh20
just added, Rowa-phos, carbon and sponge filter. I have 2 blue hermits
and 6 Turbos, and a recently purchased fuzzy dwarf lion fish. He seems
not to be eating, been in there since Sat, 28th March. I was told he
was feeding fine on frozen shrimp although I never saw him feeding, but
they are a reputable dealer recommended by fishkeeper mag.
<I wouldn't worry too much unless the feeding strike goes over
10 days.
You may try feeding with the lights off.>
He has 2 clouded eyes, since Wednesday.
<Usually water quality\Diet\Injury. Read here:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/liondisfaqs.htm >
He swims about when the light off which I thought was norm. But hides
upside down in a cave when the light comes on, again I thought this the
norm.
<Is normal, they can, with time, become more active during the
day>
Are the water parameters the problem, and if so do you have any ideas
other than water changes to get the nitrates down?
<Need more information regarding what else is in the tank, how much
and how often the tank is fed, etc.>
I have lost fish before (velvet) and I had a nasty feeling it was the
nitrates but I am not sure.
<Poor water quality can make fish more susceptible to disease, but
it did not cause Velvet..
I was on the verge of giving up at one point, due to losing my fish (
very disheartening seeing fish die) and I don't wish it to happen
again, well not unnecessary. Please can you give me any advise, I have
spoken to a number of dealers, and other than the water changes they
can't help, is it due to the coral sand as there is a lot?
<If it is trapping a large amount of uneaten food and\or fish waste,
it can. There has been much written on this subject. I suggest you
start here:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/nitratesmar.htm >
Oh the dwarf is not eating yet either tried frozen shrimp, and frozen
brine shrimp, I really don't want to go down the live fish road
unless I have to.
<Try some live brine shrimp with the lights turned down>
Kind regards
Peter Findler
<My Pleasure>
<Mike>
Re: Dwarf Lionfish Health\Feeding
4/8/2009
Hi Mike
<Hi Peter>
Thanks for your reply, much appreciated. I did a check on the water
with just the salt added, 0ppm, so I take it that cycle is loaded with
nitrates?
<Hmm.... Possible, seems unlikely though. In any case, in a properly
set up tank, it is not necessary.>
Anyway I will only use it when I do a major water change. One other
question if you could help me.... how do I wean the fuzzy off the Neons
and onto frozen food?
<As soon as possible>
I have tried offering frozen shrimp ( raw ) as he now comes to the
surface when I open the lid, but he does not seem interested.
<It does take time. You can try mixing a little 'dead" food
with the live and see if he takes it, or put it at the end of a stick
and jiggle it so it seems alive.>
Although if someone offered me a pizza when I had been getting steak, I
would probably do the same. He is doing fine though and he is keeping a
close eye on my blue hermits.
<Excellent news.>
Regards Peter
<My pleasure, Mike>
Lionfish Health\Stocking\Feeding
3/27/2009
Thanks Mike,
<Hi Elise, my pleasure.>
Actually, the damsels and clowns steer clear of him.
<Fair enough, but do keep an eye out, Damsels do tend to get
aggressive with age.>
I forgot to ask for a little advice on diet. I've been trying to
research this, and the only thing I'm sure of is what NOT to feed
him (feeder goldfish!).
<Very true.>
He seems willing to eat anything, and I'd like to vary his diet
beyond the cubed stuff and krill.
<The Lionfish will appreciate that.>
Should I be going to the seafood section of my supermarket and getting
him whatever marine fish they have there?
<Usually the best place>
Like shrimp, tuna, Mahi Mahi? I've read nothing oily, but I
don't know what's oily and what's not.
<Uncooked, peeled shrimp, scallops, clams, octopus or squid if they
have it. Salmon tends to be oily, Basically, anything uncooked and fit
for human consumption is fine.>
Should I head down to the beach and scavenge for whatever crustaceans I
can find?
<Please don't, this runs the risk of introducing
disease\parasites into your tank.>
Thanks again
Elise
<Mike>
Lionfish with hole in lower jaw... nutr.
deficiency 1/29/09 I am in need of some help
with my Dwarf Lionfish. I have a 210 gallon system. I have had
the Lionfish for approximately 8 months. When I first got him the
only thing I could get him to eat were ghost shrimp. I eventually
got him to eat thawed krill. <These are insufficient
nutritionally> He has been growing & doing great
until....about a month ago he completely quit eating.
<Bingo> I have always fed him his food from a small net. As
soon as I would put the net in the tank he was right there ready
to pounce. Now....nothing. He swims away from the net as if it is
annoying him. I kept trying everyday, unsuccessfully, to feed him
& then noticed last week that he has a hole in his lower jaw!
I can see right through it & it is about the circumference of
a pencil. The skin around the hole looked normal until today. It
now has small dark red spots around the edge of the hole. Kinda
looks like when we scratch our skin & it gets little spots of
blood. I went and got some ghost shrimp today. At first he seemed
annoyed. A couple ghost shrimp got away then he appeared to go
after one. I couldn't tell if he got it or not since I was
standing on a step stool, looking at his reflection in the glass.
My tank is a custom build into the wall between my kitchen &
living room so you can see through it. It is only accessible from
the kitchen side & he likes to hang out on the other side. I
have searched & can't find any info on what might be
wrong with him. Is it possible he tore the skin on the live rock?
<Mmm, yes... but the lack of color, flesh on the head is
telling...> Or does it sound like disease? <Yes... a
nutritional deficiency> I am pretty ignorant when it comes to
knowing my about my system. We started it up 8/2007. All
maintenance is done by LFS. I am slowly learning as we go. A
couple weeks ago my nitrates went crazy (80+) <This
also...> we discovered that all of the algae in the refuge was
turned to mush! But before that everything was fine. We have
cured that problem with water changes & the new algae is
thriving. But I am still very concerned about my lionfish. Any
help is greatly appreciated! Leigh W. <Please read here:
http://wetwebmedia.com/lionfdgfaqs.htm and the linked files
above. This fish is missing vital (necessary) nutrients... is
suffering from a long lack of same. Bob Fenner>
|
|
Choking cardinal 1/10/09 Hi
marine gurus, <Yo!> Small problem here. I want to train my newly
acquired lionfish to accept frozen food, so I put a small piece of
frozen krill in my tank, and to my surprise, my pajama cardinal chomped
it down, except it didn't fit and an hour later the head is still
sticking out of the cardinal's mouth. He doesn't seem to be
terribly uncomfortable, but I'm wondering if I should help him out.
<I would not... more likely to cause damage> Should I net him,
and try to pull the krill out with tweezers? <I would not> (By
the way, I do know that I will need to move the cardinal to another
home at some point, but for now I think it's OK, the lionfish is
very small, and the cardinal quite big). Thanks in advance, Elise
<Mmm, very likely the food will go one way or the other, and the
Apogonid will end up in the Pteroine. Bob Fenner>
Re: choking cardinal, and Lionfish
nutrition/feeding 1/13/09 Thanks, Bob, you were right.
The krill was gone in about a day. I do have a concern about the lion,
I've been searching but can't find a specific answer. His tail
has what looks like a hole or a tear, it was small at first, but
it's bigger every day. Now it looks like there was a big bite taken
out of the back of the tail, though I know that's not it. (He's
housed with a couple damsels <Mmm, what sort of Damsel species?>
and the cardinal). I would suspect parasites, but it's just in this
one specific spot. I've been trying to train him on frozen foods,
but no luck yet. I've given him a feeder goldfish a couple of times
a week, <... need to have go w/o food for a few weeks perhaps>
which he devours. He doesn't seem distressed. Thoughts? thanks!
Elise <Is living (for a while) on the goldfish... Please read on WWM
re this. BobF>
Lionfish Choking 12/25/08
Hopefully by the time you read this, the Lionfish will have
swallowed/spit out the piece of krill, but if not, then it will
probably be in dire trouble. My Volitans Lion is pretty young, only
about five inches, and I've had it for several months now. Usually
I feed it ghost shrimp and the occasional black molly, and I've
only tried frozen food a few times. This Christmas week, not having the
time to go out and buy food for the lion, I fed it some frozen krill,
which I have fed it twice before with some success. However, this time
its second piece <Mmm, too much... one piece every few days is
sufficient here> was a bit too big and it appears to be choking.
Usually it will swallow it after five minutes or so, but this has been
in its mouth for almost an hour, and while its thrashings have
lessened, it still continues to, you know, thrust its mouth out.
It's breathing is very heavy and it already has another piece of
krill in its stomach. It isn't 'belly up' spasming on the
floor yet, but I am nevertheless concerned as this has never happened
before. Because it is Christmas (Merry Christmas by the way, I love
your site) you probably won't see this until after this problem has
passed, but what is your opinion. I've read your other articles
which say to remove the food with tweezers if the situation gets
desperate, but I don't know if my situation is bad or not-the piece
of krill has a tiny bit of it sticking out of the Lion's mouth,
just an antenna-thing, and I can still see the krill's black eye in
the lion's mouth. It's mouth is normal, although at first the
inner part was still unfolded. Thanks for the help. <Mmm, that this
fish is still with you/us after an hour or so... is indication that it
will likely survive. I would not try extracting the krill here... much
more likely to damage the fish... and/or yourself. Happy holidays. Bob
Fenner>
Re: Lionfish Choking 12/26/08
Thank you so much for your prompt reply, and luckily my volitans did
survive. <Yay!> And actually that second piece was meant for my
other larger lion who ended up not getting his dinner after all.
<Ahh!> Happy Boxing Day! <And to you and yours... BobF,
who's having a Boxing Day party later this eve>
Help (Pterois; not eating) 12/20/08 my
lion fish wont eat. uv filter 125 gallon wet dry. sting ray , purple
tang, Koran angel and damsel. He ate a damsel (back white stripe) a
week ago. <Why did he eat a Damselfish? Do you feed live fish to
this Lionfish deliberately? That's extremely unwise. The use of
freshwater feeder fish (minnows and goldfish for example) is now widely
believed to cause serious harm to marine predators, so I'm assuming
you haven't used those. http://www.wetwebmedia.com/goldfshfd.htm
But even saltwater fish have the possibility of introducing parasites
and bacteria. Any fish "cheap" enough to be viable as a
feeder fish is not likely to be kept under the best of conditions. Many
marine fish -- including damsels -- also have sharp spines, and if not
swallowed in just the right way can cause problems, especially if the
size of prey offered is wrong for the size of the predatory fish being
kept. If you think about small children choking on peanuts, you'll
understand the basic problem, even though this analogy isn't
reflecting precisely what's happening. Do see Bob's article on
Pteroids generally to read up on feeding Lionfish and their allies. In
captivity it isn't at all difficult to get these fish eating frozen
foods, and the more varied that diet, the better. The commonest mistake
is overfeeding: like all predatory fish, these animals are easily given
far too much food. Wild fish likely go days without a meal, and even if
it takes a couple weeks to train your Lion to take frozen food, that
will do it no harm whatsoever.> Ate some not much. Now wont eat.
<There are three things to consider here: disease, environmental
problems, and social behaviour. First up, reflect on its previous
feeding regime. If you've been using feeder fish, then organ damage
(from the fat in goldfish/minnows) is possible, especially if this fish
is, say, a couple of years old. Feeder fish can introduce parasites and
bacteria of various types, to observe the fish for sings of abnormal
swelling, unusual faeces, lethargy, and so on. If you've offered
the same type of food week after week, monotony can set in, and the
animal will simply be bored. Secondly, review the environment in terms
of water quality and water chemistry. Heavy use of feeder fish is
particularly likely to cause higher than normal amounts of nitrogenous
waste. I'm a fan of "a little, but often" feeding of
predatory fish rather than bulk feeding once a week. But either way,
the point is that if you're offering lots of food, every day, then
water quality is very likely to be poor. Finally, social behaviour.
Lionfish generally expect to be "top dog" but can be bullied
by the usual suspects: triggers, pufferfish, angels, some surgeons.
Have you added anything new? Are any fish getting particularly big or
territorial now? If the Pterois feels put upon, he's likely to
react negatively.> The ray and he have always snuggled. <Sounds
dangerous, snuggling up to anyone covered with venomous spines! I'm
worried your tank is overstocked. You have a LOT of animals in a 125
gallon system (I'm assuming US gallons, rather than Imperial
gallons, so about 470-odd litres). Again, review water quality and
chemistry.> They are doing so still. I added a Koran angel.
<Adding new fish when you're already dealing with a problem
isn't a good idea.> Seems everything is fine but he wont eat. He
usually eats shrimp brine, squid, and spot. <What's
"spot"? Brine shrimp, by the way, are useless. Bob calls them
"popcorn" for fish. Certainly, they don't contain any
useful nutrition. Fine as a treat, in particular as a boost of roughage
to avoid constipation, but shouldn't be a major source of food.>
Wont touch anything. i am worried. ph normal. <Salinity? RedOx?
Alkalinity? There's more to marine fishkeeping than pH, and what do
you mean by "normal" anyway? We need numbers!> Thank you
for help. did water change clean filter everyone else eats. He tracks
then acts like he make a play for it then stops? Thank you. <Cheers,
Neale.>
Re: help (Pterois; not eating) (RMF, am I being
too hard here?)<<Umm, no. RMF>> 12/22/08 Your info
is a lot of help. <Happy to oblige.> No on the cheap feeders.
<My point is that you shouldn't use feeder fish at all. Ever.
Too many risks and problems, no tangible benefits.> I have 5 fish.
lion he has gotten large. ray small. <Small at the moment. Few
species have a disc width of less than 60 cm, and the majority are
much, much bigger. You WILL need a bigger tank within the next few
months. Do please understand that Stingrays do not do well in
captivity; or more specifically, they are FAR less tolerant of crowding
and poor water quality than bony fish. This holds for both freshwater
and saltwater rays. Even a 200 gallon tank is only a temporary home for
a small specimen, and successful ray-keepers keep them in tanks around
500 gallons in size. That's just not realistic for most hobbyists,
hence the consistent advice here that generally people avoid saltwater
rays.> puffer ( star n stripes) small. <Won't be small for
long. Again, this is a massive fish when mature, easily a good 35-40 cm
in length. While hardy in itself, it's messy and can be snappy, and
in a cramped aquarium can, will molest more delicate species.
Pufferfish certainly will bully or nip at Lionfish, as improbable as
that might sound.> Koran angel, small juvenile. tang, purple with
yellow fins, med size. <Do remember fish don't come in
"sizes", they come at different ages. An Angelfish or Tang
that's 10 cm/4 inches now will be a full-grown adult a year from
now. In the case of a Pomacanthus semicirculatus, the Koran Angel,
that's a fish well over 30 cm/12 inches in length. Surgeonfishes
come in a range of sizes, but few are small fish, and most are in the
20-40 cm/8-16 inches size bracket.> Loin eats- shrimp, brine and
squid. Large spot (fish) cut small. The lion and ray do snuggle he lays
his spins soft for him. I know it sounds strange. <Be incredibly
careful about forcing human emotions and perceptions onto animals. That
is the path to disaster!> No i am not over stocked. <Yes, you
really are. Massively.> I have 5 fish in 125 gallons. My ammonia is
slight <"Slight" ammonia is bad. A healthy, safe, properly
stocked aquarium has zero ammonia. Any ammonia level not equal to zero
is B-A-D bad. Your tank is likely overstocked, under-filtered, and
quite probably over-fed.> I did a 25 gallon water change. Added
buffer, salt and dechlorinator. The Koran was added before the problem
with lion was visible and happening. He ate the damsel. <Don't
do this again. There's honestly no point. If you like seeing one
animal attack another, then please go try out a blood-and-guts computer
game like Quake. Lots of death and destruction there. But in your
aquarium, the aim is that any and all fish coexist. Feeding live fish
to your Lion serves absolutely no useful function, and has the
potential to cause lots of problems.> I thought everything was fine
he was just full.iam not the type to add a fish when i am having a
problem. I do stay on top of my tank. I took 6 months buying my
equipment before I set it up. <OK.> i am so dedicated that we are
going to get a 300 gallon for ray once he gets bigger. <Good.> I
am already collecting my equipment for his larger home when it is time.
He is still small. loin, He acts like something is stuck in his throat.
<Could EASILY be the (now dead) Damselfish. Perciform fish (of which
the Damsel is an example) have erectile spines on the dorsal and anal
fins. In the wild they raise these spines in a last-ditch attempt to
get predators that have captured them to spit them out. Usually
predators swallow such fish head first, and this allows them to use
their throat muscles to force the spines back down again. But if the
predator is inexperienced (as is the case with specimens in captivity)
it often happens the predator doesn't know how to do this, because
it hasn't learned how to do this by capturing prey all its life. If
it swallows the Perciform fish tail-first for example the fin spines
cannot be forced down, and the prey item gets wedged in its throat.
This is a surprisingly common problem, and why I advise that those
people keeping predatory fish that cannot take non-live fish foods (of
which your Lion is NOT an example) should use fish without spiny fins.
This means they shouldn't use Damsels or Cichlids, but rather
(home-bred, gut-loaded) species such as Killifish and Poeciliid
livebearers.> Large open mouth movements. <Could be laboured
breathing, a common reaction to poor water quality. Stop feeding your
fish, all your fish, and do everything you can to get ammonia levels
down to zero. Check that the tank is spotlessly clean. Review
filtration methods. You should have a spectrum of filter types
including live rock, a skimmer, and one or more auxiliary filters of
some type, such as an external canister filter rated to a turnover of
8-10 times the volume of the tank per hour. Check each filter is
correctly maintained and working properly. In a healthy aquarium there
shouldn't be any ammonia at all; that you can detect ammonia
implies a problem.> He plays for the fish (food). I give the tang
and angel leaf (salad) or zucchini. - change the filters one at a time
over 3 days. Ph is 8,0 nitrates slight elevated ammonia real slight so
the water change all values in normal ranges now. I usually try to feed
every 2 or three days to the ray, lion ,puffer. My fish have always
gotten along no problems in 7 months. <Famous last words! Seriously,
just because fish get along now, doesn't mean they will in the
future. Tangs, Angels and Lions generally get along okay, though all
three would prefer to be "top dog". Arothron spp. puffers are
boisterous rather than bullies, but nippy specimens can kill Lionfish.
You might imagine a Lionfish is so dangerous everything would leave it
alone, but not so. Puffers can nip at their fins, allowing infections
to set in, killing the Lion. Stingrays -- in all honesty -- have no
place in your, or most peoples, marine aquaria. They're just
incredibly difficult to maintain, and I doubt even 5% of the specimens
purchased go on to live for more than a year or two. I've been
keeping fish for some 25 years, and wouldn't dream of keeping a
Stingray, freshwater or salt. I just feel they're better
appreciated in the wild.> This is the first problem. I was told to
put in guppies. i am regretting it after reading your email. <Less
reputable retailers will indeed to tell people to keep Lionfish fed on
Guppies or Goldfish or whatever. There's absolutely no need to do
so, and lots of very good reasons NOT to do this. Lions are very
adaptable and will consume a wide variety of prey. Here in England
it's common to settle them in with live river shrimp (the
equivalent to what I believe Americans call "glass shrimp");
Palaemonetes, Palaemon, Crangon type things. Lions accept them readily,
and since the shrimps are herbivores, it's easy to gut-load them
with vitamin-rich Spirulina flake food. Once the Lion is settled and
any weight loss from shipping dealt with, you can wean it onto a mixed
seafood diet. Prawns, mussels, squid and strips of non-oily white fish
is a popular mix. By the time the Lion has learned that you're the
one serving the meals, it's generally pretty open to the idea of
eating whatever you throw into the tank, dead or alive. There may be a
battle of wills for a couple of weeks, but so long as you stick to your
guns, the Lionfish will eventually give in and take the dead food. From
then on, it's easy to give a balanced, healthy diet for pennies a
week. Best of all, Lionfish on dead food diets are less aggressive, so
they can be kept in groups under aquarium conditions. Pterois spp. at
least appear to be gregarious in the wild, as well as somewhat
nocturnal (or at least crepuscular) but keeping them in groups seems to
encourage them to swim about happily during the day. It's a Win-Win
for everyone!> I was told that I had him to much on non active food.
Try live. I think I screwed up. <Common mistake; don't feel too
bad.> If there is a fin stuck in his mouth from the damsel what can
I do for him. <You personally, very little; handling a live Lionfish
without [a] stinging yourself and [b] doing anything helpful for the
Lionfish will be difficult. You could net the fish and then try to use
a long, smooth, non-toxic stick (like a plastic chopstick) to open its
mouth and peer in. But anything that requires you to bring your hand
close to the fish is OBVIOUSLY VERY DANGEROUS and has to be avoided. A
vet trained in handling fish (there are a few) may be able to offer
assistance. For now observe the fish carefully, and try to see if you
can "look into" the mouth and down the throat. But do also
review water quality. That you have ammonia in the system is bad, and
that's something that needs addressing.> All our other fish are
to large for him to eat. Everyone else gets on very well. We aren't
getting or adding anymore fish. I do not want a over stocked tank. I do
believe this is why I have not had a lot of problems.-i want to thank
you for your time. <We're happy to help. There is much here to
read; Bob Fenner has written much on the maintenance of Pterois. Start
here, and follow the various links at the top of the page:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/lions&rels.htm These are generally hardy
fish that do well in captivity, but there are a few problems to look
out for. Ironically, people "loving" their fish too much and
buying them lots of feeder fish are actually the folks who end up with
the most problems.> Please write me more about what you think for
lion. I am worried for him. I don't need the sugar coated letter.
<I'm British, and we don't usually do sugar coating, except
maybe around the Queen!> I am grateful for the straight forward
manner you deliver your info. Merry xmas* <Merry Christmas to you,
too. Cheers, Neale.>
Lion fish diet 11/10/08 Bob, I am
writing an essay for a college where. U am. discussing the impact of
human error on the destruction of ecosystems (namely reefs). I am
writing on the introduction of lion fish. as alien species in North
Carolina and the Caribbean. I. am basically making a projection that
the increase of lion fish. in areas where there are no natural
predators will cause extinction of species that are found in their
natural diet. I would like to know. a natural. food that lion fish eat
such as a species of shrimp or crab that is found in North Carolina or
the Caribbean that a lion fish could possibly consume to the point of
extinction. Thanks again, Zach <Zach, thanks for writing. Lion fish
will eat any species of fish, crab, shrimp that can fit in their mouth.
Lion fish are the ultimate predators and obviously can thrive in
sub-tropical and even colder water conditions. I personally have
witnessed lion fish (in captivity) eat any smaller fish ranging from a
clown fish to small trigger fish. Good luck with the report. Ian
B>
Ghost shrimp/jewel anemone hlth/ID - 07/19/08 I
can't seem to find an answer for my questions.#1 I bought
some ghost shrimp from my LFS and I noticed they had some white
dots on their body, is this normal or some sort of disease?
<Mmm, likely more the latter... not communicable though. These
sorts of markings show up in specimens that have been kept in
poor conditions> #2 I have a large colony of jewel anemones
<There are a few species that go by this name... Is this a
Corynactis? Which do you have? and can't find any info on
them any where can you tell me or give me a link to some
information on them? Thanks for any help! <Bob Fenner>
Re: Ghost shrimp/jewel anemone 07/20/2008 Wow I
didn't think I would even get a reply yet alone a reply so
quick! So then it would be safe for my fuzzy dwarf lion to eat
said ghost shrimp his health is of great importance to me. #2 yes
my jewel anemones do resemble Corynactis and now I have their
scientific name I'm finding a lot on them. I saw tanks full
of them at Chicago's Shedd aquarium that's were I got the
jewel name from. thank you very much. I'm sure your words of
wisdom have prolonged the lives of many of our aquatic friends!!!
<<Yes, the ghost shrimp are fine for the lionfish. Really
glad you found the correct name for your anemone, all helps
towards providing a better environment for them. Thanks for the
follow-up, hope this helps. A Nixon>>
|
Lionfish help... feeding, reading...
7/18/08 hi I have a small common lionfish, two damsels and a
12" snowflake eel in my 72 gallon tank. I have been feeding my
lionfish feeders (minnows) because that's all he'll take
<... see WWM re training onto other foods> but this isn't my
problem. After looking at your website I see that feeders are actually
very bad for them. <Ah, yes> Today I looked at my lionfish and
its stomach was inflated very much and he wouldn't take the feeder
so it was obvious something was wrong. I understand that this is
happening because of all the feeders I have given it but is there a way
to make him better or is it too late from him? Any info on what
happening would be great.. Thanks -Matt <Hopefully this fish
isn't doomed at this point... and you can begin to proffer it
better foodstuffs, nutrition. Nothing you can do but wait at this
point. Bob Fenner>
Juvenile Volitans lionfish not eating anything -
06/29/08 Hello again Mr. Fenner. I purchased a 2-3" long
juvenile Volitans lionfish over a week ago. I gave him some ghost
shrimp on his second day in his new home (75 gallon tank) he ate two of
the three that I put in there rather quickly, now he eats nothing.
I've tried many of the tips on getting him to eat frozen food but
he simply won't show any interest. I gave in and tried some feeder
guppies and ghost shrimp but he shows no interest in them either!
I'm at a loss for what else I should do to get this little guy to
eat. I have tried the acrylic skewer, the food on the fishing line
trick, and a small variety of live foods. Any advice on this subject is
much appreciated. Thanks in advance, Shea <Mmm, the shrimp may have
been too big, the shells/exoskeletons too hard to digest/pass just yet.
I urge patience, waiting another week or so... can go w/o feeding for
this long, even at a small size... keep trying the other foods, fish
flesh... but be patient. Bob Fenner>
Re: Juvenile Volitans lionfish not eating anything -
06/30/08 Hello Bob and thank you for the speedy reply. I will give
it time and plenty of patience and try a variety of meaty marine foods.
<Good> I do have 2 more quick questions if you don't mind.
The first question is that I just saw my Volitans skimming the bottom
of the tank and taking in mouthfuls of sand then spitting it all back
out. Can you venture a guess as to why he would be doing this? <Mmm,
mere speculation, but maybe this is some "cleansing
mechanism" for when something is "stuck" further in the
animal> And second, my LFS said that there is no chance that a
5-6" Volitans can/will eat a cleaner shrimp, royal Gramma, and a
percula clown (all 3-4"). What is your take on this statement?
<It is incorrect> Thank you again for your time and wealth of
knowledge. Sincerely, Shea <Glad to share. BobF>
Lionfish
stomach bulge 6/23/08 Hello, I have a quick question
for the experts at wwm. I just purchased a 3" Volitans lionfish
yesterday at my LFS. He was acting just like lions do, perched on a
rock being lazy. I knew to ask the dealer how he was eating and for a
demonstration (knew this after using your great site). The dealer said
he just fed him some ghost shrimp the night before and he probably
won't eat right now, and he didn't. So I brought him home and
tried feeding him frozen krill last night, but no such luck (wasn't
surprised). But today he went into hunting mode at a small piece of
algae that I put in there for my blue hippo, so I figured I should get
him a ghost shrimp or two just to see if he'd eat it. I saw him eat
one now he has a weird shaped bulge on the lower right side of his
stomach and he is laying on the bottom and hasn't swam out from his
cave since he ate. Just want to make sure this is normal behavior post
feeding, and also what that bulge is. Thank you all so much, Shea.
<Hopefully the bulge is a smaller shrimp... Lions can/do at times
ingest other living/non-living material. And am hopeful that "this
too shall pass". Bob Fenner>
Lion Feeding 05/23/08 I did a lot
of searching and reading on your site and didn't find much about
feeding a small (about 2 1/2 - 3 inches) volitans that already is eating
mysis. I do a mix between flack <? What is this?> and mysis for
the rest of the tank. Can I assuming that this is a good amount for the
lion if he eats everyday? <As long as the fish doesn't appear
"thin"... the underbelly concave...> He only shares his
home with two other fish, so the amount of food placed in the tank
isn't too much. He was eating mysis at the LFS when I purchased
him. Thanks Spencer Hall <I'd start mixing in other food
items... as the fish will grow too large for Mysis alone in time. Bob
Fenner>
Lionfish question... will eat small-enough and
not fishes! - 03/07/08 Dear crew <Doug> I have
had this lionfish for about 6 months. It eats essentially half a
cube of Formula One and half a cube of Formula Two per day. Over
time, it has gotten a couple of blue green Chromis.
<Eventually all...> The other day he got a yellowtail blue
devil. The next day he ate, but the day after he did not. Today,
he was in the middle of the death throws. <... gut
blockage...> Tonight he is just lying still on the bottom of
the tank, gasping. Looks like he is near the end. Still full of
color. He is about 7 inches, very think. The other fish in the
tank are doing very well. Thoughts? Doug <Put the term
"Lionfish gut blockage" in the WWM search tool:
http://wetwebmedia.com/WWMAdminSubWebIndex/question_page.htm read
the cached views... live and hopefully learn. Bob Fenner>
Re: Lionfish (choking on Pomacentrids) question
3/9/08 Bob <Doug> Thanks a lot. You guys are helpful
and that seems to be the best answer that I have heard. We also
have a missing tiny snail, but it is hard to spot in our 95
gallon tank. <This too could be a source...> We got the
lionfish last and frankly he is the showpiece of the tank so it
is sad to lose him (or her). If by some miraculous comeback it
survives, do you have any recommendations as to how to feed a
lionfish while we are on vacation? <Mmm, yes... not to. Unless
the specimen is absolutely tiny, or the vacation more than a
couple of weeks... Pteroines do fine with fasting this
long...> We have been using neighbors twice a day, but that
will get old very quick on an upcoming 14 day vacation. Doug
<I would place a timer with spectrum pelleted food
(conditioning the other fishes so they are familiar) and leave
this as that. Bob Fenner>
|
Lionfish advice please, hunger strike - 01/07/2008,
Marco's go Hi, <Hello Cindy.> I have went through the
website but haven't found a similar problem. <Really? Have you
looked here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/lionfdgfaqs.htm and
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/liondisfaqs.htm , and at the other linked
FAQs on lionfish feeding and disease?> I have a lionfish, it's
quite big, about 10inches from head to tail. I got him in March this
year. It's in a 600litre reef tank, tank mates are yellow tang,
cream angel, coral beauty, tomato clown, puffer fish and 4 ghost ribbon
eels. <Sound like this tank is the wrong place for them to me. Are
these black/blue/yellow or white ribbon eels? Do they eat at all with
all these faster fish.?> All the fish came together with the whole
set up. It was a great feeder, took chopped up fresh prawns, then a few
months ago, it shopped eating for about 1.5 month (I kept trying to
feed it) and then started feeding again. Then about 2 months ago, he
stopped feeding again, only this time it's been longer and it swims
away when I try to feed it. I even tried giving it live feeder fish but
it's simply not interested. It looks fine, a bit thinner, but
its' eyes are bright and flares its' fins when I move in front
of it, other times it snaps at other fish when they are feeding but
won't eat even when the food is right in front of him. I even put
some scallop and prawns at the end of a skewer and tap its mouth with
it and it still won't eat it. I've tried soaking the food in
garlic before I feed it and it still won't eat. In the past when it
was taking food, it would look up to the water surface and wait for the
food to drop but now it just hides in crevices or amongst coral.
I'm worried that it may starve to death and I don't want to
loose it. Would you have any suggestions to get it to start eating
again? Thanks, Cindy <Aside feeding in the dark you have tried all
the standard methods. It is not unusual for lionfish to stop eating for
some time. 2 months, however, is rather long. First thing to check is
water quality, are the nitrates below 20? Are ammonia and nitrite 0?
pH? These (and many other) fish regularly stop eating when the water
quality declines. A series of partial water changes should improve the
situation in this case, but filtration needs to be upgraded, too, if
declining water quality is the source of this hunger strike. A second
theory is stress: Is the lionfish bothered by the puffer or the other
tank mates?. Third idea is nutritional deficiency if prawns was all you
were feeding him on a regular basis. I hope he gets well again.
Marco.>
Lionfish refusing to eat 1-7-08, Yunachin's go
Hi, <Hello, Yunachin here> I have went through the website but
haven't found a similar problem. I have a lionfish; it's quite
big, about 10inches from head to tail. <I have one a little
bigger.> I got him in March this year. It's in a 600litre reef
tank, tank mates are yellow tang, cream angel, coral beauty, tomato
clown, puffer fish and 4 ghost ribbon eels. <Wow, four ribbon
eels!> All the fish came together with the whole set up. It was a
great feeder, took chopped up fresh prawns, then a few months ago, it
stopped eating for about 1.5 month (I kept trying to feed it) and then
started feeding again. <Were you trying anything else other than the
prawns? How frequently was he eating?> Then about 2 months ago, he
stopped feeding again, it swims away when I try to feed it. I even
tried giving it live feeder fish but it's simply not interested.
<What kind of feeder fish? I do not recommend feeder fish due to the
lack of nutrition that these fish can provide. A majority of lionfish
die prematurely due to feeder fish -associated problems, for instance
the high amount of fats.> It looks fine, a bit thinner, but its'
eyes are bright and flares its' fins when I move in front of it,
other times it snaps at other fish when they are feeding but won't
eat even when the food is right in front of him. <Have you noticed
any bullying from the other fish in the tank? > I even put some
scallop and prawns at the end of a skewer and tap its mouth with it and
it still won't eat it. I've tried soaking the food in garlic
before I feed it and it still won't eat. <It is not uncommon for
Lionfish to stop eating for a short time but not as long as two
months.> In the past when it was taking food, it would look up to
the water surface and wait for the food to drop but now it just hides
in crevices or amongst coral. <Lionfish are incredibly picky and
prefer for their food to look "alive" when being fed. I would
try some ghost shrimp and see if he takes to that. You can enrich the
ghost shrimp by feeding them marine flake food. Most lionfish will not
turn down a ghost shrimp. I recommend rotating through many marine
based foods, such as chopped gulf shrimp (with their shell on), lobster
tail, crabmeat, strips/chunks of marine fish (available at the grocery
store), and chunks of squid and octopus. I also recommend supplementing
these foods by adding a few drops of a vitamins to make up for the lack
of nutrition from refusing to eat.> I'm worried that it may
starve to death and I don't want to lose it. Would you have any
suggestions to get it to start eating again? <Good Luck,
Yunachin> Thanks, Cindy
Lionfish... hlth., nutr. 9/4/07
Hi guys! It has been a while since I last talked with you, but you have
always given me good advice, and I haven't been able to find
exactly the same problem on the Web site. I have a Volitans lion
(Venus) that we have had for 2 years; she is about 8 inches long. She
took well to hand feeding, and will eat almost anything we give her. We
give her silver sides about one time per week, and the rest of the time
we feed her either frozen or freeze dried shrimp. <Too much fat in
these foods... and nutrient deficient...> A couple of times she has
taken an entire cube of frozen blood worms while we were trying to feed
the other fish, but this has not happened in over 6 months. She shares
a 220 gallon tank with a Rectangulatus trigger, a saddle puffer, a
lemon peel angel, a scopas tang, and a flame hawk. About a week ago the
lion stopped eating with no warning, and she has been listing to her
right side. Her coloring is normal, and her size has not changed, nor
does her breathing seem rapid. She seems to float to the top of the
tank, and floats there either on her back or on her side. She has no
interest in food, and she seems that she can only swim with her head
pointed down; she doesn't seem able to swim towards the top of the
tank facing upward, she just sort of floats there. We did a 1/4 water
change, and tested the water, and all levels are normal. All of the
other fish have been behaving normally. I am wondering if this is
possibly a problem with her swim bladder? <Caused by?> She has
never shown behavior like this before, and there have been no additions
at all to the tank (fish or rock) in about a year. She does
occasionally try to swim down and sit there, but she ends up floating
back up to the top, and is usually on her side, and if I open the lid
part of her pectoral fin is actually out of the water between the water
level and the lid. She floats with her right side down. I am not sure
how old she was when we purchased her, but she was only about 3 or 4
inches long at the time. Please help!!! (if you can). I don't want
to lose her, but I really have no idea what to do for her, and it
really seems like it is a struggle for her to even try to swim
downwards. We have not seen her really open her mouth at all in the
last week...at first I thought possibly lockjaw, but I don't think
that explains the strange floating behavior. Any suggestions would be
greatly appreciated. Thank you for your time in advance, and thanks to
all of you who counsel our fellow aquarists. Your site is truly
wonderful, and it's so great to have a place to go for advice and
information. Sincerely, Jennifer and Steve <I do hope your Lion
spontaneously gets better... with just time going by. It might have
swallowed something that is decomposing, producing an air pocket inside
of it... If it does resume normal orientation and feeding, I would take
to broadening the food menu... and soaking some of these foods in a
vitamin, HUFA mix (like Selcon). Otherwise, there is not much that can
be "done" here other than wait. Bob Fenner>
Volitans Lionfish Eating issue 8/23/07
Before I begin, thanks for the wealth of good information. I have
searched through all the Lionfish threads and FAQ's but seem to not
be able to match up exactly my issue. He does not have a dislocated
Jaw, lose of appetite, and I have never fed him feeders. But he is
having trouble swallowing food. <Mmmm> I have owned this Volitans
Lionfish for about 1.5 yrs now and have grown him out in a 75g and he
now lives in a 240g FOWLR. He is currently 8-9". He has always
been a heavy eater of just about anything that went in front of him. I
typically feed him cut raw shrimp chunks with tail and shell removed,
with other treats from time to time (silversides, krill, squid, ghost
shrimp, etc). <Sounds good; in fact, yummy> Water parameters are
good. 79.5-82 deg F, 8.2 PH, Amm 0, Nitrite 0, Nitrate (10), Phos (0).
Tank has over 300lbs of LR and a huge skimmer. Tank mates have never
bothered him except with my 24"+ Snowflake Moray accidentally
snapped one of his back spines off 1/2 way down during a feeding
rampage. (gotta love eels and feeding time). But that has heeled and is
growing back. Other tank mates (Queen Angel, Naso Tang, Yellow Tang,
Harlequin Tusk, and a Maroon Clown) do not bother him at all.
<Good> Within the last 2-3 months he seems to not be able to
swallow. He still acts interested in food and swims up to it and will
gulp it in but then acts like he is coughing and eventually spits it
out and watches it sink. He will follow it down and sometimes grab it
off the bottom (along with a mouth full of aragonite) and gulp on it
for some time before spitting it back out. I have tried smaller and
smaller pieces with limited success. It seems like he has a problem in
his throat or a problem swallowing. Any ideas of problem or potential
solutions (vitamins or food soakings)? <I do think the food soaking
is a good idea... I would add the use of Iodide along with the
Vitamins, HUFAs... You may find a commercial prep. that incorporates
all three. Bob Fenner> Joe McLaughlin
Lion fish behaviour/illness... nutritional def.
syndrome/fdg. 8/8/07 Hi Crew, First I'd
obviously like to thank you all for having this phenomenal web site, it
is definitely my primary resource for just about everything I try to do
with this hobby. <Welcome> I feel that there likely is an answer
already within your site, but I just can't seem to put these pieces
together well enough to be confident in how I'd like to proceed....
So, to the point... (I'll try to spare you as much of my novice
speculation as possible, and just give you my observations) I've
had my Fu Manchu Lion (Dendrochirus biocellatus with three eye spots)
for just over a year, he is the sole inhabitant of a 60 gal with about
80 lbs of live rock. There have been no attempted additions to the tank
or otherwise since my last addition of 15 lbs of live rock 4 months
ago. This tank is in the basement of my house. For the first six months
of his stay with me he ate gut packed ghost shrimp, eventually he began
eating freeze dried krill (vitamin soaked), but will still eat nothing
other than those krill (a fish of discriminating tastes, he would
actually spit out anything that wasn't krill) More recently he
won't eat anything at all. <... too likely an effect of the
restricted diet> I last fed him Monday of last week and while a heat
wave hit where I live.... The water in the tank rose to 83 over a day
or two's time <Should be fine> and when I tried to feed him
again he feigned going after the piece of krill, but then gave up. I
tried to feed him daily after that and he would still eat nothing.
Originally my take on it was that the rising temperature where I live
may have upset him enough to initiate this fasting... his tank normally
holds a temperature of 79 degrees. Unsure of how to handle the unstable
temperature, i tried to wait it out, hoping the heat would break,
knowing that fluctuations in temperature could be thought to be worse
than a slightly high temperature. (the water quality maintained itself
at 0 ammonia, 0 nitrite, 8.3 ph and around 15ppm nitrate [i know this
is high, i have been having significant trouble lowering it]) As of
Friday that week I started to get more concerned, as he really did seem
particularly lethargic and his belly was starting to look a bit more
concave than I'm comfortable with. there was no report of the temp
outside lessening, and the lion's colour became pale as well as his
breathing particularly rapid. In my own panic and haste I decided to
attempt to lower the temp by a degree or so by doing a 15 gal water
change with the new water being around 80 degrees. Now since he's a
rock clinger and I work long hours I can't verify if these next
symptoms were or were not present before hand.... but obviously if my
guesswork and recklessness had paid off I wouldn't be writing you,
so what I can tell you is through my observation after that point, he
became more pale, and within an hour or three he was seeming to be
significantly disoriented. He would try to swim and almost appeared
drunk, like he didn't know which way was up or where he was going.
he was doing strange loops where some of the time he was belly-up
(which is very abnormal for him). A little spastic and possibly even a
bit twitchy. Luckily (or unfortunately) before I could do any more
damage, I had to leave for a few days. I felt sick for having to leave
him... but again, sometimes I act rashly when faced with an unwell (or
possibly dying) pet. When I returned on Monday, I found him alive but
looking disoriented, clinging to his rock in an unfamiliar fashion
(normally he sits with "purpose" and doesn't look so
vacant) and looking a bit unstable. (though he doesn't appear
blind... he reacts to my hand near the glass) On close inspection his
fins looked like they might have been rubbed a little on the rocks, a
few hours later I noticed that only the lower half of his tail had been
damaged, where some areas appear to be broken off (honestly, if I had
another fish in he tank I would think he'd been chewed) The upper
half of his tail looks perfectly normal. Presently, he doesn't
twitch his dorsal spines anymore, where he would normally move them in
a jerky wave pattern. He's still not eating or trying to and I have
not had any opportunity to watch him swim, but as he shimmies from one
rock to another, he still seems to be inclined to lean to one side, and
his "bum" or back half seems to hold less weight than it used
to... so, what i mean is he seems to have trouble holding it to any
surface. <Starvation...> I'm worried anything I do could
stress him more and I don't know what would or might do more good
than harm. I considered moving him to my Quarantine tank, <Not
advised> but I thought a 15g would be more likely to fluctuate with
the temperature (if that's even the problem) Also I have a new fish
in the Q tank, an Amblygobius phalaena, 3 weeks into his quarantine and
perfectly healthy (as far as I can see) Eating ravenously, and not
being affected by these same temp. fluctuations... In everything I have
done with his quarantine I have paid great attention to not allowing
direct or indirect contact between the tanks (as a side note). <I
would place this fish with the Lion> I don't know how to proceed
from here... My biggest concern is that I can't put my finger on
any one thing that might be wrong (or at least connect it to anything I
have read in your lion faq's) and am ready lo listen to whatever
scolding I need to get to the root of this problem and understand what
I can do to help him get well. Tell me what not to do, tell me what to
do.... and maybe tell me what I can do in the future about my
summertime temperatures... Every fish is a beautiful and amazing one,
and Fu really is to me. If I had an equivalent of a Merck Manual of
medical info for fish I swear I wouldn't be bothering you, But I
really Do appreciate you help for and patience with someone I'm
sure you might view as an absolute ninny. I hope some of what I've
noted will help you help my fish. Sorry for talking you ear off. I was
just trying to give you all the info I have and explain myself in the
process. Thank you once more for all of you expert knowledge and help.
-Liz <Am hoping that the addition of the other fish, its feeding
behavior will spur your lion on to resuming feeding... I would try some
live ghost shrimp... and add some vitamin/HUFA mixture (variously sold
as commercial prep.s in the hobby) to the water the shrimp were in for
a good fifteen minutes before offering... to stimulate appetite as well
as possibly supplying needed nutrients. Bob Fenner>
Injured Lionfish + 1 month without eating. Need advice
please. 5/24/07 Hi! <Hello there> First off,
great site - full of helpful information, but I can't seem to find
anything that quite matches my case, so I'm dropping you a
line. 4 weeks ago my lionfish acquired a sizable gash across
the top of the head in the soft tissue between the "head
plate" and the first dorsal spine. The deep gash went
from one gill covering to the other and he was bleeding freely in the
tank. <Yikes! Very bad situation... Fishes have very high
"Packed Cell Volumes"... and a world of not much dissolved
oxygen (often about 7 ppm... vs. ours of about 210,000... Need their
blood, rest of their integument/slime systems to be intact to stay
alive> I wish I could figure out how to attach the pictures I have,
but it basically looks like someone took a steak knife and split the
back of the head open. <Mmm, have seen similar injuries... Lions can
really move at times... run into objects, jump out of the water,
striking gear...> I later found a 2-inch peacock mantis in my live
rock (which I immediately removed), but I am still unsure what caused
this injury. The bleeding eventually stopped and under the
advice of my local fish store, I treated the tank with MelaFix for 2
weeks. <Am not a fan> The Lionfish ate sparingly
after this injury (he was a terrific eater of fresh frozen and freeze
dried shrimp prior to this event), but ate his final piece of food 24
days ago. His wound is healing nicely (no discoloration or
puss from the wound). I tried ghost shrimp and guppies - nothing is
taking his interest. In fact, when I try to "pole feed"
dehydrated shrimp, the live ghost shrimp will crawl up onto the face of
my Lionfish to get the food!!! Water levels are fine, I
check the ammonia, etc., every other day and change a portion of the
water weekly. Anyway, his dorsal spines are depressed,
laying along his back and he's noticeably losing weight (although I
haven't massed him). I've contacted a few local aquaria
regarding force feeding, and had I.V. feeding proposed as a suggestion.
<Mmm... would not do this> Unfortunately, the aquarium that
suggested this is too far away for me to bring in the fish
(overseas). I was wondering if you had any suggestions for
force or IV feeding? <Well... could/can be done... with extreme care
with Pteroines obviously... but I would keep trying the foods you have
been, with some changes... I would re-arrange the decor in this system,
soak all foods in a vitamin and HUFA supplement (for attraction as well
as nutrition), and make/use a "feeding stick" for the
non-live items...> I've managed to shove food in his mouth via
the "pole feeding" method, <Oh! Good> but at this point
he's spitting everything back out - so I think we've gone a bit
beyond the standard "hunger strike". If I must handle him to
force or IV feed, what type of gloves would suffice to prevent being
injured by his spines? <Mmm, actually... better to use well-soaked
(to discount residual cleaner) white (versus colored) older cloth
towels... to "hold back the dorsal and pectoral fins while
manipulating such animals> I have dive gloves, but the joints are
fairly thin. <These can be easily punctured... and the handling will
further damage the fish with these> Any advice would be very helpful
- my lionfish is such a terrific little guy, with an awesome
personality (up until this event... his behaviour has radically changed
to depressed and non-interactive over the past month). I
don't want to lose him! Thanks, Kim <The food bolus must be
pressed, inserted further back than the buccal cavity... past the
obvious closure in the back throat... there are some backward pointing
structures there that disallow live food organisms from escape... A
plastic catheter, other tools... Bob Fenner>
Problems Feeding My Lionfish (Puffer/Lionfish
Incompatibility) - 05/08/07 Dear Bob, <<Hello Jason...Eric
here this A.M.>> I recently acquires a Lionfish and a Porcupine
Puffer. <<Neat fishes...though not really compatible>> My
problem comes in at feeding time. <<Indeed>> The Puffer
eats everything I put into the tank so the Lionfish doesn't have a
chance to eat. <<Just one of several reasons these two species do
not do well together in typical home displays>> Any suggestions
as to how I can distract the Puffer from taking everything away from
the Lionfish? At one point the Lionfish was ready to suck in
a prawn and the Puffer practically took it out of the
Lionfish mouth. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Best
regards, Jason <<Obviously, the best solution is to have these
fishes in separate systems. Failing that, you can try
fabricating/inserting some type of divider (a piece of acrylic sheet)
at feeding times to "corral" the Puffer away from the
Lionfish to give the latter time enough to feed. Do also
keep an eye on these two, especially for signs of fin damage on the
Lionfish as sooner or later the Puffer will likely begin to chew on its
tankmate.. Regards, EricR>>
Lionfish worries, feeding-not - 05/01/07 Hi,
I can't tell you how much my husband and I love this
website. You have been a huge help for us on many
occasions. Unfortunately, we have a sick Volitans lionfish,
and haven't found any information in the FAQ's. He
shares a 55 gallon tank with a small, young triggerfish and a few
snails. <Need more room than this...> We have a live
sand bed and about 35 pounds of live rock. Our water quality
is good. (Nitrates, nitrites, and ammonia are all 0 ppm. <Really?!
Even zero nitrate? Unusual for settings with this sort of wildlife
mix> pH is around 8.3. Specific gravity is
1.024.) The problem is that our lionfish stopped eating over
a month ago. He shows no signs of infection and the
triggerfish is completely healthy. <May be the psychological reason
the Lion has ceased feeding...> As appearances go, he
looks fine, other than a slight decrease in size. <Good observation.
Do actually "shrink" with starvation> The only other thing
we've noticed, which is rather odd, is this bright blue poop here
and there in the tank. I know it isn't coming from the
triggerfish. So, what would cause the lionfish to have poop
like that? <Mmm, don't know... may be from the snails> Could
he have swallowed something? Please help. This
fish has been an awesome pet with a great personality for us and our
boys. Thank you so much!
Chanda <Really... I'd move the
Lion elsewhere... Sometimes these fishes do "just go on feeding
strikes"... Perhaps some live ghost shrimp in a new setting with
spur it on to resume feeding. You have read here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/lionfdgfaqs.htm and the linked
files above I take it. Bob Fenner>
Lionfish problems!!! HELP 3/19/07 Hi, I have
had a Lionfish for the last 6 months, who was doing wonderfully well.
In the last week, it refuses to eat, and has been swimming from side to
side in the tank for hours, like he had never done before. <Unusual
behavior> I've tried hand-feeding it silver fish, krill, and raw
shrimps. He just doesn't eat. My tank is a 92 gallon, and my
lionfish is about 6 inches long. I have 3 tangs and one panther
grouper. <Mmmm> It is a reef tank. Is it possible that he is
outgrowing the tank? <More likely the tankmates> Or is it the
beginning of a parasite or any disease? <Not likely> Please help,
I love this fish! Thanks, Gary <The behavior is indicative of
"something" bothering this specimen... that is obviously not
bothering your other fish livestock... Likely the presence of the
Chromileptis/Panther is "it"... If this were my Lion, I'd
move it to another system to see if this "cures" the
non-feeding and pacing behavior... and if you don't have such
means, I'd trade in either it or the Bass. Bob Fenner>
Lionfish Fdg, hunger strike - 1/25/07 <Hey Art,
JustinN with you today.> All of a sudden my lionfish stopped eating.
He watches the food, even acts like he is going to eat it, then
can't seem to open his mouth. I have had this lion for nearly a
year and hate to lose him. I know if he doesn't start
eating he will die. My local fish stores have no answers and just tell
me he is going to die. <Perhaps a sign of disparaging methods at
your LFS... How long has this hunger strike been going? Lionfish are
known to go on occasional hunger strikes, refusing food for up and over
a week at times..> Since I apparently have nothing to lose, is there
a medicine I can try or can I shock him with a fresh water dip? <You
have the life of your aquatic pet to lose here, my friend. I would not
medicate until you have some sort of real indication of a problem. Is
his stomach becoming visibly pinched yet? These creatures typically do
not eat daily...> I have even considered separating him and trying
to open his mouth with some kind of tool to see if it is
"stuck"? I do realize they are poisonous so I will need to be
careful. Any suggestions? <"Wait and see" is my suggestion
here... if its been under a week and a half since the last feeding, I
would not yet be concerned. Do try supplements to improve palatability
of food, such as garlic extract and Selcon. Good luck! -JustinN> Art
Berkowitz
Lionfish Fdg, hunger strike - a follow-up 1/27/07
<Hey Art, JustinN with you today.> Thanks for you prompt
reply Justin <<No Problem, Art. Glad to help.> All
of a sudden my lionfish stopped eating. He watches the food,
even acts like he is going to eat it, then can't seem to
open his mouth. I have had this lion for nearly a year and
hate to lose him. I know if he doesn't start
eating he will die. My local fish stores have no answers and just tell
me he is going to die. <Perhaps a sign of disparaging
methods at your LFS... How long has this hunger strike been
going? Lionfish are known to go on occasional
hunger strikes, refusing food for up and over a week at
times..> It has been nearly two weeks since my
lionfish began acting strangely. As I said, the thing that
concerns me the most is that he seems unable to open his
mouth. <<Mmm, then I would agree it is time to start being a bit
more concerned... I still don't believe all is lost here, my
friend.>> Since I apparently have nothing to lose, is there a
medicine I can try or can I shock him with a fresh water
dip? <You have the life of your aquatic pet to lose here,
my friend. I would not medicate until you have some sort of
real indication of a problem. Is his stomach becoming visibly
pinched yet? These creatures typically do not eat
daily...> No, his stomach does not appear to be
pinched yet. I feed my fish twice each day except when I am
out-of-town and my neighbor is feeding the fish.
<<What do you feed here? Standard frozen aquatic cuisine, flake
food, or meats from the seafood counter at the grocery store?>>
Every morning my lionfish was at the top of the tank waiting
for me along with my porcupine puffer. <How large of a tank is this?
This could be part of the issue, both these fish are quite the waste
producers and messy eaters, and likewise, can get fairly large.>
They used to fight for the first food dropped into the tank.
So this is very unusual behavior. Now, he just sits upside
down under a rock and rarely ventures from that position
all day. <<What are your water parameters like?
Perhaps there's a malady, something off, there?>> I have even
considered separating him and trying to open his mouth
with some kind of tool to see if it is "stuck"? I
do realize they are poisonous so I will need to be careful. Any
suggestions? <<Just as you say here, carefully restrain the fish,
and lightly attempt to open the jaw for feeding.>> <"Wait
and see" is my suggestion here... if its been under a
week and a half since the last feeding, I would not yet be
concerned. Do try supplements to improve palatability of food, such
as garlic extract and Selcon. Good luck! -JustinN> I will
try the supplements and will wait and see. I just feel so helpless
and everyone was telling me he is going to die. So I just wanted to
try something proactive rather than accept that as his fate.
Thanks for listening. Art Berkowitz <<Don't feel too
overwhelmed, Art. Even under the best care, we can sometimes miss
details, and/or things just go wrong on occasion. Likewise, I don't
believe the situation is as dire as everyone else believes. Your
lionfish does not need to be eating every day, and this could be
leading in part to his current hunger strike. Aim for every 2-3 days,
with meals consisting of mixed frozen sea-borne meats, as you can buy
at the local grocer. Have a read through our lionfish feeding
FAQ's, perhaps something that we haven't already postulated on
will jump out at you: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/lionfdgfaq2.htm Good
luck! -JustinN>>
Doing What Come Naturally….Lion Eating Hermits
1/16/07 I have a really big problem, <I'm all
ears……> in my tank of about 450 litres, I have a Pterois
volitans that have eat an hermit crab. <Sounds like natural behavior
for the lion…….> I am very worried , he seams to be ok
(to days later) The hermits are from Brazil, very small ones, I have
more or less 20 hermits crabs in my tank and about 20 snails too. Can
my scorpion digest it? <If he was large enough to swallow it whole,
he should be able to digest it just fine. In fact he will
continue to eat the rest of the hermits and snails.> will he die for
eating it? <Not likely.> Please tell me what do you think it will
happen. <I think your lion will continue to practice this natural
behavior on smaller tank denizens.> The Pterois is about 15
centimeters long and 43 years of age. <I'm guessing that age is
a typo or was lost in translation somewhere……….>
Thank you very much from ARGENTINA (SOUTH AMERICA) ALEJANDRO <Adam
J. from SoCal.>
New lionfish owner <caregiver>
12/28/06 Hey, <Hey now! Mich here.>
I'm new with owning <caring for> anything other then starter
damsels <damsel> and I've never fed a fish frozen food
before, I just bought this lionfish and I wasn't sure if it was ok
to put the frozen prawn in the tank right out of the freezer. <How
often do you get a hankering for frozen shrimp? How about a
tasty fishcicle?> Should I thaw them out first? <Unless you
Lionfish has an underwater microwave, yes the shrimp need to be thawed!
Even better if you soak them in a vitamin supplement such as Selcon
before feeding them to you fish.> Also is feeding him solely frozen
prawn sufficient? <Could you live on frozen shrimp the rest of your
life?> or should I get something else to add to his diet?
<Variation is key here. Please educate yourself as to the
proper care of this beautiful creature. These articles are a
good place to start. Good luck to you and happy
reading! -Mich> http://www.wetwebmedia.com/ca/cav1i2/lionfish/keeping_lionfishes.htm
www.wetwebmedia.com/lions&rels.htm
Re: new lionfish owner <caregiver> Con't
12/28/06 Ok so you've basically called me stupid
via-email, that's fine, I'm new at this. <Oh, I'm not
saying that at all! I am trying to have a little fun, and
make my replies at least a little entertaining to those who read
them. It is all in good nature and come from being in
similar situations and not knowing what to do. We all have
our stories. What I am saying is, at the very minimum place
yourself in the situation and ask what would you desire. A
very basic starting place.> I've found places
that have told me to give it a variety of meats. so is any type
of raw meat alright? or should I stick with fish-types? <I would
stick with fish types. Something that he could possibly come
across in his natural environment, mostly fish, shellfish, squid,
etc.> I have read countless articles making me aware of
over feeding my fish and I do not believe this is a problem.
<Very good, awareness is often the most difficult aspect of this
hobby.> Previously the fish was in a tank with two others, puffer
and an angler, all of which were getting live prawn. I do not
have the resources to give my lionfish live prawn. So if I could
come up with a well rounded feeding pattern, that would be nice to
know. Also when I go to feed the rest of my fish, the lion hides
in a place where I cannot just drop the food in front of him and the
other members of the tank seem to munch on the prawn bits before he
gets a chance at it. I have read about feeder sticks and tongs
but I don't know if I can access one. Any suggestions?
<Chopsticks from your local Chinese take out are a possibility,
bamboo skewers, or even sending the pieces down a length of rigid
tubing. There are also several fish feeding devices
currently marketed with in the industry, catalogs such That Fish Place,
Marine Depot and Fosters and Smith will carry such
items.> Once again, please have patience I'm aware I
must appear completely clueless. <My patience/time is offered to
you. We are all learning through this
journey!> Thank you for your time. <You are quite
welcome. -Mich>
Feeder Blockage Syndrome in
Lionfish - 11/04/06 Hello Mr. Fenner (and crew!),
<Gisho! Was in Narita just 12 hours ago!>
Long time reader of your wonderful book, the Conscientious
Marine Aquarist (so much so that the pages are literally falling
apart!). This is fantastic site, and let me say
"thank you" to you and all the hardworking WWM
crew for your efforts. <Welcome>
Now to my question. In your book, you state that
the feeding of live goldfish to lionfish contributes to
feeder blockage syndrome. Is
it the particular shape or density of the goldfishes' skulls that
is the cause of the blocking of the pylorus and if so, how is a
goldfishes' skull any different than that of their natural
saltwater prey? <Mmm, don't
exactly know what it is, but have dissected/necropsied a few lions that
had apparently died with feeder goldfish impacted in their principal
stomachs... Don't know if it's some chemical/physical
difference in the chondros part of the minnows, or fat content...>
Or is what I surmise correct; the fact that in their
natural habitat, lionfish go relatively long periods between feedings
and essentially overeat when being fed too many feeder goldfish at once
by well-intended aquarists? <This is definitely a factor as well>
Their digestive tracts are then not able to dissolve the
skulls of the goldfish (as they are densest) and the skulls therefore
essentially "pile up", and block the gastric
outlet? <This is what I have
observed... the skulls themselves "clogging" the gastric
valve at the distal end of the fundus. Bob Fenner> Or is
it a combination of both? <I do think it/this syndrome is a
combination of these inputs. Bob Fenner> I tried to find the answer
in your book, which I was unable to, and I searched the WWM site and
could not find a definitive answer.
Please advise.
Thank you so much, Gisho
Feeding new Puffer and Black Lionfish food from the Atlantic
Ocean 10/3/06 Dear WWM, <John> We recently
(yesterday) purchased a Dogface Puffer (Arothron nigropunctatus) and a
Black Lionfish (Pterois ~ antennata/radiata) <Neat animals> In
order to offer proper sustenance to the Puffer, I am wondering if it is
acceptable to feed live caught crabs, clams, mussels from the Atlantic
Ocean. <Mmm, yes... with some provisos... that you understand the
possibilities of introducing pathogens, pests and pollution mostly>
We live very close to beach here in North Carolina and have access to
such prey items right out the back door. I know that these
prey items are not indigenous to the Puffer from a species
perspective. Is that a problem? <Not this, no> I am
concerned that not being able to offer crustaceans to our Puffer may
lead to lectures from the Fish Dentist that I would prefer to avoid.
<Heeee. Possibly> Concerning the Lionfish, I basically have the
same question about feeding small minnows (Popeye Mullet, Menhaden)
caught locally. Ironically, in the September issue of North
Carolina Wildlife Magazine ( http://www.ncwildlife.org/pg09_NCWildStore/pg9a1.htm)
there was an article on Red Volitans having been found off the coast of
North Carolina. <Umm, yes...> Much to the surprise of
marine biologist. So, does this in itself make it okay to
feed indigenous prey? <Is okay> I also rather suspect that Mr.
Fenner may point out the possibility of introducing parasites,
pollutants, and other problems into the system? <Am ready for my
holiday now... whenever you're ready to step in... Thank
goodness!> Is that a real possibility or one that could somehow be
minimized with something akin to a fresh water dip of the prey items
before introduction? <Yes, and yes... even freezing/prep.> One
more quick question on the Lionfish, I am having a very hard time
classifying it. The fish is almost completely black and
white. At first I thought radiata but, the absence of the
two horizontal stripes on the tail seems to rule that
out. But antennata, doesn't seem correct as our fish has
plumage almost completely up the spines. Should I just
classify it as a Pterois Volitans? Until yesterday, I had never seen
one like this. <Almost assuredly this is a dark form of a Pterois
volitans> Last but not least, I want to offer a very appreciative
thank you to the WWM team. Especially Mr.
Fenner. Thanks to him I have suffered many sleepless nights
from reading and reading and re-reading the Conscientious Marine
Aquarist. <Yikes... sorry about that/this. Bob Fenner> Thanks,
John
Hey Guys - Lionfish Q, dwarf, small Lion feeding
10/2/06 Yeah yeah... I know I'm part of the crew, but I've
got a question I can't seem to find a really decisive answer for.
Thanks to WWM - I got a job as an aquarist expert at one of our local
(or semi-local, as it may be) LFS. When I started there last
week, they had just got a very small dwarf lionfish
in. I'm talking about 1.5 inches small - and were trying
to feed him flake food! <...> Hello... not
good. But I can't seem to prompt him to eat - nothing,
not a fish slurry, not live brine shrimp - not frozen
anything! Any ideas of what I can try that would be more
successful? <Ghost shrimp... can/will live in marine settings for a
good long while... and are palatable... and baby livebearers if you
have them (look in the "feeder guppy" tank if they have
such... Acclimate over a day or two to more saline conditions...> Or
possibly a way to condition him to the food available? <Not likely
in a/the short (enough) term> Thanks so much everyone! Jen S. PS -
tis why I've been absent answering questions the past few weeks...
once a get a handle on everything I'll be back. Plus I've
already handed out WWM website to everyone wanting to know more than
comes on in! <Real good. BobF>
Just some advice... re fdg. Lions 9/17/06 Dear WWM
Crew, <With cheese...> You guys
have gotten me out of many a problem with your extremely helpful
advice. Because of this i <I> just thought id <ego?> send
this email to maybe help some lionfish keepers on your site. I have a
5.5 - 6 inch red volitans and for the longest time i couldn't get
him to touch anything dead. Feeding with feeder shrimp just gets to be
a hassle and expensive, even though it is kinda <kind of> cool
watching him chase down moving prey. So this is the story of how i
managed to get bubba (big lips, loves shrimp, plus am in the south and
we love Forrest Gump for some reason) to eat his first dead meal.
Bubba first started eating live shrimp from the day that i
got him home. He loves them, in fact he loves food in general. I guess
i started like most keepers with venomous fish and had a certain fear
of being stuck, though i haven't been yet. I fed Bubba shrimp from
a feeding stick which really didn't work well and just got fed up
and released the shrimp into the display and just watched the action.
About a three weeks after he came to live with me, he got really
friendly and calm. Quite frankly i like him more than my parents dogs
to be honest. Then one day i went to put a live feeder in and he waited
and just took it straight from my hand. <A note here... shades of
Steve Irwin... do NOT handfed venomous fishes... or animals period>
This kinda surprised me but it worked. Soon he was eating out of my
hand all the time and even let me pet him (keep in mind I've never EVER
been stung by Bubba). <Please kids... don't try this at home>
after about a week of feeding him from my hand he decided anything i
gave him was good I guess and decided he was going to take an entire
pinch of flake food i was going to give my trigger. That was fine, but
all he did was turn it into little perfectly sized confetti that the
trigger had fun chasing down i guess. At that point i was curious and
lowered his first frozen dead shrimp into the display and BAM Bubba ate
good that night on shrimp that cost 6$ a lb. I was ecstatic at this
point and basically just shout FINALLY! So now free from having to go
to the pet store every few days, I must say we're both happy. I
truly hope that if you do in fact buy a volitans it is a friendly and
peaceful as bubba is. I must say he is an incredibly beautiful and
friendly addition to my tank. I hope my long story can possibly help
someone having troubles with their lion. Thanks all and have a great
evening. -Hunter Rosenbauer <Thank you for this. Bob
Fenner> Lionfish and diet 8/12/06 Hello there,
<Hi to you> I have an Antennata Lionfish, about 5~6 inches in a
62G tank. I recently got it from a LFS that was feeding it live fish
caught from the local marina. I wanna spoil this fish in terms of diet.
Do you suggest I stop feeding it live fish ( I can regularly pick up a
little fishy from the LFS every other day if need be) and train it to
eat frozen food or what? <Hopefully so> I hear about soaking the
frozen food in vitamins. Does Ocean Nutrition have such vitamins
formula? <Mmm, if they don't there are plenty of other companies
that do, and the liquid vitamins intended for humans (often sold for
babies) are identical and of use here> I live in the UAE and the
market for fish food and dietary products are not plethora. thanks Saif
<Do take a read here Saif: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/lionfdgfaqs.htm and the next linked
FAQs file above. Bob Fenner>
Sick Lionfish... env., nutr....
7/18/06 Hey guys, <And gals...> I have been going through
every lion fish article you have and have seen some good info. However
I think I may have something that I haven't seen. Here
it is. I have a lionfish that has been with me for 1 year
now. I have a 55 gallon tank with 10 hermit crabs, 3 turbo
snails, 1 Blue Tang, 1 Yellow Tang <... this system is too small for
these fishes...> 2 Hawaiian feather dusters and 1 green Feather
duster. I have a protein skimmer (odyssey) and a trickle
filter to a 4 gallon bio ball sump setup. There are also 2
power heads in there as well. The levels are as
follows: Nitrates about 10ppm (just did another 5 gallon
water change to bring that back down to 0, <Mmm, ten ppm. is not too
"bad"... zero is not achievable here> PH was low but that
is back up to 8.2, nitrites and ammonia are perfect. There
was high phosphates and I have brought that down as
well. The salinity is at 1.022. <I'd keep this nearer
to NSW strength, 1.025> I used to feed the lionfish gold fish but
stopped that after warnings by your team. <Good> I started
feeding him silversides which he loved, I could see his color get much
better and he was also much more active as well as his wings started
healing. Well 2 weeks ago I was trying to feed him but he didn't
want anything to do with the food, kind of looked at it then let it
drop to the ground. <Feeding strikes are very common with captive
Scorpaeniforms...> I tried again 2 days later and have been every
day since (That should explain the nitrates). Well he would
let it just hit his head and do nothing. I have read that
these fish will go on a hunger strike but I think I am past that
now. I have got the quality of water back to good (and it
has been worse). Well he now looks like he isn't
breathing very well at all, very little movement in the gills. He also
seems very disoriented he will be upside-down motionless and then will
start moving but definitely not normal activity. He also
shed his skin the other night which I read they can do to get rid of
parasites and/or disease. <Yes, natural behavior> Well today I
was trying to get a good look at his eyes and his gills to see if I
could see anything out of the ordinary. Well on him there was nothing
but I came across something in the tank that may be a sign and may
not. I tried to get a picture but the resolution wasn't
good. SO I will try to explain. In the live rock
there are a bunch of little brown cylinder things smaller than a piece
of rice. Maybe 1 mm long if that. They are all over. They
are light brown in color. I don't think they are waste from the
fish since I have seen there waste before and it doesn't look like
this. I also have noticed 2 spots on the rock where there
are almost polyp looking things. They are about the size in
diameter of a Coax cable end (3 cm or so?) They are
white/clear and have a little darker spot in the middle. Almost look
like alcove of garlic or an upside down heart on the
rock. Also a little while back there was this weird
string like thing that was white with little balls going the length.
Almost like a pearl necklace but the pearls were separated more. DO you
have any clue what these are and how I can help my fish. Any
help would be great. <Mmm, highly doubtful that these
"critters" are problematical... Much more likely that your
Lion has/is suffering from a nutritional deficiency syndrome. I would
keep "wiggling" food in front of it... that has been soaked
in a vitamin/iodide supplement (these are made for this purpose
commercially)... and continue to seek out larger quarters for these
fishes. Bob Fenner> Thanks, Link
Feeding Lionfish 7/3/06 I have a 120
gal tank with live rock and sand. Decided to go with
two lion fish as the main fish in the tank and read how to feed lion
fish on this site. I have a P. radiata and a P.
antennata. For the first two weeks they would not
eat. Soaked all food in garlic extract. <Not a big
fan...> I tried the fishing pole with a hook cut off and
worked the shrimp like you would worm fishing for
bass. This at least got them to strike at the food but
did not keep it in. I was stocking my tank with
fish and got a wrasse that looks like a possum. White head
and tail. Very small mouth. Any food put in the
tank it would grab and run. The lions went with it and when
the wrasse dropped the food the lions ate and kept it. <Neat>
Adding a grouper to the tank also started aggressive feeding by the
lions. Competition for the food. The other part
of this is I started a more aggressive water flow inside the
tank. The current caught the food and made it appear to be
swimming. The Lions seemed much more prone to strike at the
food this way. In a period of two weeks I now have two lions
that feed aggressively on all food put in the tank just like the rest
of the fish. Thanks for all the tips on how to get lions to
feed. Sam <Thank you for sharing yours. Bob Fenner>
Re: Feeding Lionfish #2 7/3/06 I have also got to
where my lion fish are now eating Tetra Cichlid Jumbo
Sticks. The lion fish turned up there noses at first, but
the rest of the tank feed on them. The feeding around the
lion fish caused them to get excited and strike. They at
first rejected the new taste. Over a period of days they are
now feeding good on these sticks. According the can
the sticks are in they are good food for lion fish. Sam
<Surprising, but good news. Bob Fenner>
Another Solution for Finicky "Live-Only"
Feeders - 05/11/06 comets and Lion fdg. f's Hi Crew,
<<Howdy Ken!>> I would like to thank you for the great and
vast amount of aquaria knowledge you offer to us less wizened, wet
behind the ear (pun intended) keepers of the wild wet wonders.
<<Quite welcome my friend...we enjoy what we do>> The
following is not a question, but a suggestion for those having trouble
weaning lionfish to prepared foods. <<Great!>> My Mama
always taught me sharing is a two way affair. *grin*
<<Indeed>> After many reading through your "feeding
lionfish" FAQ's, I tried all of the prescribed methods of
weaning my fuzzy dwarf off of live foods. He was a stubborn
cuss and shied away from any feeding apparatus I attempted to put in
the tank. As I am also an avid angler, the oh so obvious
solution came to me in forehead slapping fashion. What I did
was to cut off the business end of a fishing hook leaving only the
straight shaft, (which I dulled up) and the hooks eye. The
hook I used was large enough to supply weight to negate the currents in
the tank. <<Ahh.. I see...hence the reason for not using
something made of plastic/acrylic>> Attaching some light fishing
line, I was ready to go, almost. I then impaled a whole
krill from head to tail down the now harmless hook and I lowered the
bait into the water and let it sink to bottom. I had enough
line to stand back 6 feet from the tank as not to spook
him. It only took a few wriggling tugs across the
sandbed near the fuzzy little guy before I had my first
hit. He didn't get the krill, but after a couple more
twitches, lunch was served. <<Outstanding!>> I just thought
I'd share this for anyone having troubles in the weaning process. I
hope it works as well as it did for me. <<Thanks much for this
Ken. This sounds like an excellent solution for particularly
fussy/shy feeders. Do let us know how things progress/if the
lion begins to take dead offerings without the
"trickery">> Cheers, Ken <<Regards, EricR>>
Lionfish eating to extremes... 4/7/06 We fed our
lionfish some ghost shrimp and he jumped all over them after not eating
for a few days... However, he seemed to eat all of them though and I
became concerned about overfeeding. I had a friend you fed his lion
small goldfish and it seemed to eat so much it died and that worries
me. will a lion gorge itself to death on food? <Can, yes... Happens
all the time> my lion's stomach is huge right now and obviously
at this point I just hope for the best, but for future reference, can I
dump a few ghost shrimp in there and hope he eats when he wants, or
will he eat them all no matter how hungry he is? <Not a good
idea> thanks again for the info...you all are great. <Please...
read on WWM re Lionfish Feeding... and don't send such
poor/uncorrected grammar to us. Bob Fenner>
Finicky Lionfish! - 04/04/2006 I was
wondering if you could give me a few hints on how to get a Lionfish to
eat. I recently purchased one and he has yet to notice when
food is being put in the tank. I am only feeding frozen food at this
time to my fish and would like to avoid live fish feeding. So anyway,
the other fish always get to the food first and the Lion is left
sitting at the bottom a bit confused thus far. I was just curious if
you had any hints to try and get the fish to eat or at least get him to
notice the food. Is it as simple as putting the food in his face? I
appreciate all your help. Thank you! Christian Earle <Well,
Christian, it MAY be that easy! Remember, these fishes are ambush
predators, and slowly stalk their food. This means that you would be
best trying to feed the Lionfish after the other fishes have eaten. You
could try placing chunks of food on a wooden BBQ skewer and
"dancing" it near the fish to tempt it. Again, I'd do
this after all of the other fishes are finished feeding, or they'll
go after the Lionfish's food before he does. Alternatively, you
could try feeding the fish regularly after the lights go out. They
often will go on the prowl just after the lights go out, so it's
worth a try. In the end, you just need to stay with it and keep trying.
Hang in there! Good luck! Regards, Scott F.>
Lionfish Problems - 3/21/2006 Good day! <<Hi
Josie!>> Today is day 10 of my Volitans Lionfish eating strike!!!
We got him from "a guy" about 2 1/2 months ago. I
have a 50 gallon FO tank with 1 Volitans Lionfish, 1 Yellow Tang, 1
Maroon Clown, 1 Limbaughi Chromis, 2 Turbo Snails, 2 Small Hermit
Crabs, 1 Brittle Star, 1 Sandsifting Star, and 1 (illusive) Ghost Crab.
<<Your tank is far too small for all those fish. The
tang and Lion need larger quarters, and the maroon clown will wreak
havoc on that tank in no time.>> The water parameters right now
are SG - 1.022, Temp 79 - 80, Ammonia - 0, Nitrite - 0, pH 8.3,
Nitrates - 40 (yes, that is high and we are doing approximately 15%
water change every other day to bring that down). <<Likely a
cause of the feeding strike.>> The parameters of the tank prior
to the Lionfish going on food strike were the same as they are now
except the Nitrates were 0. The Nitrates have shot up over
the last 2 - 3 days and we have gotten them down to 40 with the water
changes. <<Wow, so they were very high. Get those
levels down, and you may see a return in appetite.>> Anyway, he
was on a diet of Freeze Dried Krill and now will not eat
it. We tried raw shrimp soaked in garlic, raw scallops
soaked in garlic, raw shrimp no garlic, raw scallops no garlic, and
even tried the feeder fish just to trigger a feeding
response. He will hunt it on the feeder stick but will not
open his mouth to eat. <<An all-krill diet is linked to
lock-jaw. Do Google this on WWM.>> The LFS said to
force feed him. Now, I don't know about anyone else, but
I'm not too keen on force feeding a fish as I seriously doubt that
this will make him WANT to eat. <<Can help at times
actually. I would look into other methods/solutions first if
you are wary.>> We do have a protein skimmer and have turned it
up to try to knock out the Nitrates but it is a slow process.
<<Water changes are what you need to do, along with acquiring a
larger tank.>> I'm at a loss at this point on trying to get
the fish to feed! <<I think the causes are quite clear.>>
He has no external signs of anything wrong. Normal coloring,
normal swimming, he hangs out a lot with his head hanging down and this
tail up, but this, from what I have seen, is normal for a Lionfish.
<<Not necessarily.>> This is my first saltwater tank and
have been learning and reading along the way. The only
reason we have the snails, stars, and crabs is as a clean up
crew. We were having an issue with Red Algae and the snails
have almost knocked that out entirely. <<It is best to solve the
source of such problems, as opposed to adding a
Band-Aid-solution.>> Do you have any suggestions that I might be
able to do to help this poor fish? <<Larger tank, reduced
nitrates, possible iodine supplementation to help with lock-jaw (Google
on WWM).>> I didn't intend on keeping him in the first place,
he came with the tank, as we had purchased it from a guy in the local
area. We estimate that the Lionfish is about 3 - 5 years
old. No one would take him so we decided to care for him.
Thanks a million!!! Josie <<Glad to
help. Lisa.>>
Re: Lionfish Problems, Follow-Up - 3/24/2006 Thank
you so much for the advice Lisa! <<You're quite
welcome.>> I searched all over the place for any ideas and read
just about everything and this was the first time lockjaw came
up. I have begun putting supplements with iodine in the
water to try and help alleviate the lockjaw, if that is the
case. I had read that an all krill diet can cause blindness;
of course this was after he stopped eating, and had already bought him
shrimp and scallops so I can rotate his diet. <<Sounds
good.>> I am going to attempt to use a turkey baster and blend up
some of the tank water, scallops, and shrimp to force feed
him. These guys used to live in a 29 gallon tank before we
bought them and moved them into the 50 gallon tank. The only
additions were the clean up crew. We are doing water changes
every other day to get those nitrates down and it seems to be
working. We are about to increase the sump size from this
small 10 gallon one to a large 29 gallon one. The old tank
we got from the guy we are going to convert to a sump for this tank to
help keep this one in really good shape. <<Sounds good! Do
re-think the tang, though.>> Again, thanks so much! I
will let you know if we were successful on getting the lionfish back to
good health. <<Please do!!>> I have tried to give him away
several times but no one wants him. As he came with the
tank, I feel obligated to keep him and take care of him, along with the
other fish that came with the tank. <<Aww, of
course. Good luck Josie! Lisa.>>
Josie
Lionfish Update - 3/24/2006 Good day again!!!
<<Hey Josie!>> I wanted to give you an update on the
lionfish! <<OO, goodie>> Today we got him to eat a piece of
shrimp, rather, he opened his mouth and we stuck it in his mouth and he
swallowed!! YAY! <<Great!>> Now, today, he shed
some skin. I read through all the FAQ's and it seems
that they do this at times, so I am not as worried about
that. Thank you so much for your help so I can save this
poor guy. <<I'm glad to help.>> I'm still doing a
lot of water changes; in fact, on Saturday we are going to do a 50%
water change to get these nitrates down. <<Sounds great.>>
I also read on the FAQ's about bio-balls being a "nitrate
factory". Well, I have bio-balls. So, I am
considering taking an old 39 gallon tank I have and converting that to
a sump and using the sand and snails technique mentioned on
www.ozreef.com. The problem is the construction directions
are not clear enough for me. I know how to put the pieces in
the tank to get all the sections. But what is unclear to me
is where exactly the sand goes and where does the prefilter go with the
snails? Which chamber?? I assume the first
chamber is where the water comes in, then goes to the second chamber
where the sand is, then that goes to the third chamber where the water
is returned to the tank. But I don't see where the
prefilter goes? Is it the first chamber, that's what I
would assume? But I'm not big on taking assumptions when
lives are at stake. <<Good call. I am not very
familiar with the 'snails' method. Do search WWM for
'live sump' ideas.>> The return pump I have is a Rio 1700
with a 627 gph flow. Is that sufficient for a 50 gallon tank
and 39 gallon sump? <<You will want other ways of creating flow
in your tank. Search 'closed loop manifold' on
WWM.>> Again, thanks so much! <<You're quite
welcome. Lisa.>>
Lion Hunger-Strike
12/24/05 Hello. <Hi Mike.> Thanks for all the
great information on your website. <You are quite welcome and thank
you for the kind words.> I have a question about my
lionfish who has decided to stop eating. He has eaten a
total of four silversides over the last 18 days, three times eating
one, and once he ate two. Every other day he has refused
food. <I think you should try more of a variety, such as krill,
squid and even fresh market prawns, also consider soaking them in a
nutritional supplement like Selcon or stuffing the "meat"
with some vegetable matter such as Spirulina to ensure nutrition.>
I've had him a year, he has eaten frozen food from the
beginning, <That's good.> but this is the second time he has
gone on a hunger strike. <Not uncommon with these types of
predators.> Last time, he seemed to snap out of it for no reason
after about 10 days. <That's about average time, 2 weeks is
fairly common.> I'm beginning to get worried due to the length
of time the hunger strike has been going on this
time. I've read many helpful articles on your website
about possible causes for hunger strikes and have searched for a cause
in my tank. The water conditions seem good (Ammonia - 0;
Nitrite - 0; Nitrate 40; spg - 1.020; kH - 10 to 11.). <The nitrate
is a bit high, for fish only tanks I like to aim for 20ppm or less.>
The only potential cause I can identify is a water change about a month
ago where I added water that was too cold and it dropped the
temperature of the tank 3 or 4 degrees. <Such a rapid temperature
change could stress the animal.> I've resisted using live
feeders or shrimp to try to stimulate feeding because I'm afraid
that will keep the lionfish from ever going back to frozen food, I
don't want to kill the feeders, and I'm worried that the bird
wrasse and/or puffers in the tank would just beat the lionfish to the
feeders or shrimp anyway. <Agreed.> Any advice on how
I might end this hunger strike would be appreciated. My specific
question is, how long can a lionfish go without eating before serious
health problems or death is a risk? <I tend to worry after the 2 or
3 weeks mark, but your specimen hasn't gone 18 days without eating
anything, it has eaten some which is a good sign. I would try a
different variety as I mentioned above and possibly even attempt some
night feedings since the majority of these animals are naturally
nocturnal.> I've read and been told conflicting
things - from being told that the 18 days is already too long, to being
told that a lionfish can go several weeks without food with no adverse
health consequences. Thanks. Mike. <Welcome, Adam
J.>
Lionfish Hunger Strike, Stings 11/30/05 Hey Guys,
<Rod> Seems everyone has the same question about Lions.. when
they stop eating, they just stop, no question about it. Been feeding
silverside, squid, baby octopus, small prawns with shell for months to
my Zebra and he just stopped last week, seems he got his jaw locked and
took time to get it back into place and has sulked ever since. Touchy
guys... my daughter calls him JAWS and when feeding hums the theme to
the film as he swims up to get fed... and I know they hurt too, got me
once and spent the next hour with my mit in the hottest water I could
take - kinda like someone burning your skin while ripping it off too -
but he's still a welcome resident of the tank. Ok, some starve for
weeks and obviously months (hard to believe) but I'm not too
concerned yet, doesn't look thinner just sulking in the corner
head-down position. Would you agree its a hit and miss affair
with these touchy guys - with no set remedy to any particular
individual or species. I'll keep you posted of the outcome - hope I
don't have to go as far as JAWS 2. Rod <Keep us
posted and ensure that 10% weekly water changes are carried out. James
(Salty Dog)>
Frozen Food for Lionfish (Did You Watch it Eat?) - 10/24/05
Hi Guys, Great Site, I have a 50g that has been running for about a
year. Just purchased a radiata lionfish (magnificent looking fish and
very friendly too) he's (I guess it's a he) only about 2"
at the moment. He was eating frozen krill at the shop so I got some of
the same brand at the time of purchase. Twice now in a week I
have tried to feed him by simply defrosting the krill in the tank and
letting it float around. He shows no interest when its floating around.
He does, however, approach it when it has sunk to the sand bed and
occasionally snap at some however most of the time he appears to spit
it out. I am worried he is not eating enough is their anything I can do
to work up his appetite a little? <Did you actually see the lionfish
eat the krill or did the shop owner tell you this? You may want to ask
the shop owner if the food was prepared any special way, like soaking
in vitamins, etc. Other than that, he no longer wants to be a fast food
junkie. May have to get him some feeder guppies etc. Not too many
people have success in converting lions to frozen/prepared foods. James
(Salty Dog)>
Re: Frozen Food Lionfish 11/6/05 Hello Again, <Hello
Dan> Right I got him to eat a lance fish (frozen) about an 1"
1/2 long and he seemed to ingest it all. However I looked at him the
next day and he still looked really thin, so that night I fed him
another lance fish 1" 1.2 he eat it down (all the way) then I went
back to check him ten minutes later and it had been spit out. He is
looking thin again. Would you say he spat it out both times??? If so
should I be worried? <I really don't know if he spat out
both fish. To comfort yourself and the fish, I'd go buy a
freshwater Mollie and feed that to him. Goldfish aren't
recommended. James (Salty Dog)>
Re: Frozen Food Lionfish 11/24/2005 James,
<Daniel> Thanks for all your help he now eats like a marine! I
tried squid and he couldn't resist. He now eats anything I put in
the tank (krill, chopped muscles, Mysis, squid, octopus)! He's
looking really healthy and a little fat! <Good for you, not many
people have been able to accomplish the live to frozen
transition. Most lions simply refuse anything that isn't
alive. James (Salty Dog)>
Lion Fish can't
eat? 9/22/05 Hello everyone, <Daniel> Thank you for
taking the time to read my email. I've had my Lion fish
for about 2 years now, and he's been strong! He's
been eating fine until last night- I put the krill in the tank, he
comes right up to it, looks like he's going to eat it, then backs
off. After several minutes of this, I removed the krill, and
replaced them with a silver side. He went right for it, but
same result, and he's almost seems frustrated. Is there
a disease that strikes Lions, keeping them from moving their mouths?
<Mmm, yes... some deficiency syndromes... too much of the same
nutrient-missing foods fed exclusively...> Is there anything that
can be done, or do I have to wait it out? Thank you very much, Daniel
<Can try vitamin-supplementation, large water changes (I would).
Please read here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/lionfdgfaqs.htm and the linked
files above. Bob Fenner>
Lionfish on food strike 7/12/05
Thanks for all the great help you provide. I am continuing
to try to solve a problem with a lionfish that has almost stopped
eating. This lionfish was the first fish in my 250g tank and
ate frozen silversides and krill from the start - I would drop the food
in front of the lionfish with plastic tongs and he would snap it
up. That went on for a few months at least. Now,
it is difficult to get the lionfish to take any food. <Happens>
The last addition to the tank (only 7 total fish) was a porcupine
puffer, who is much smaller than the lionfish but typically eager when
feeding time comes. <Yes> The lionfish is clearly agitated by the
puffer and poses whenever the puffer swims too close too
quickly. The lionfish started to be difficult to feed about
the time the puffer came into the tank. <Mmm, coincidence?> I
feed the fish one time daily at night, and the lionfish is definitely
still interested in food. But, now when I put silversides or
krill in front of him, he just looks at it and watches it drop to the
bottom (I distract or isolate the puffer to make sure the lionfish gets
a chance at the food). I am going to try live ghost shrimp
to see if that will kick start the lionfish feeding. If that
doesn't work, I plan on trying some live feeders, though I hope not
to reach that point because I don't want to get the lionfish
reliant on live fish and I don't want to kill the fish that would
be its food. Do you have any suggestions as to how to get
this lionfish feeding again, and maybe what the cause of the problem
is? Thanks very much. MCW <You likely will have to
separate the Lion, Puffer... You can read re their compatibility,
feeding... on WWM. Bob Fenner>
Volitans Lionfish Hello,
<Hi> Could you please help me with my lionfish? <Try to>
Have a 120-gal FO tank with said lionfish (7") running for over a
year without any problems. Last week I made the mistake of adding an
auriga butterfly (2"). He started nipping on the lion a day later
and I promptly removed him to a another tank. Problem is that the
lionfish hasn't eaten in 4 days, he doesn't look skinny but he
lies near the bottom most of the time with his spines drawn out. The
spines have been out for the last four days. Is there anything that I
could do? <I would start by changing 20% of the
water. Don't know your water change schedule, but 10%
weekly is recommended. If you've been feeding him
goldfish I'd change to something else, guppies, mollies
etc. A 7" lion does generate a lot of
waste. You don't mention using a protein skimmer or a
high grade of activated carbon. Both of these will help
tremendously in water quality which is what I believe the problem
is. How is the nitrate level? Lionfish are best
left to a specie tank only. James (Salty Dog)> Thanks a
ton, keep up the good work!!! Adriel
Lionfish vomiting I have a recently acquired 2" Mombasa
Lionfish. <Small!> It's been in the tank (parameters all
good) for about a month and has been eating well on ghost shrimp.
I've noticed that every now and again it will thrust itself
violently a short distance through the water and open its mouth.
Sometimes this results in a white film or slime coming out of its
mouth. Is this normal and what would make my lionfish do this? Ewan
<Perhaps the shells of the ghost shrimp are proving too difficult to
digest? I might try switching to whole meat, wiggled on a feeding
stick. Bob Fenner>
FO Marine Filtration, Feeding the Lions Hiya, <Hello
there> We have a 75 gal. tank w/ one Fluval 304 and one Fluval 404,
very thin substrate, weekly 10% water changes, one Picasso Trigger and
one V. Lionfish, now for the question...is the filtration system(s)
enough or should we be using something else due to the kids' waste
output? <Mmm, could> The Picasso is so easy to feed a variety of
frozen food and live gut loaded occasionally as a treat. He'll eat
anything but flake food. Now the Lion is a little tougher switching
over. Is time a factor here? <Sometimes...> We've had him for
one week tomorrow. He's hasn't gone for anything frozen... ya
know, the I'm gonna eat dance and then realizes it's frozen and
snubs it??? We will try to starve him, but what is a recommended amount
of time for the starvation? <Depends on size, state of condition...
weeks> He's about 4 inches long, just a baby. We lost a Lion a
few years back due to lack of knowledge, and with the help of your
website, we are learning quite a lot about all things marine, and we
thank you for that! Any help w/ the above is greatly appreciated.
Thanks Jenn & Bob <Glad to share. Bob Fenner>
Lionfish pair Mac: Brett again.... <Hi Brett,
I'm so sorry for the delay, I have been dealing with migraines and
haven't been on top of my game. Please forgive.> So I think you
were right and I have a male and female lion. <Anything is
possible Brett.> They literally "cuddle" together
75% of the time. It's pretty neat to watch, actually. The little
one folds all of "her" ??? fins down and snuggles under Big
Daddy's large fins. Is there any way to sex them, or will it always
be a mystery to me? <Surgically for sure but I don't
believe there is any other way to sex them at this time. But even if
you don't have a male and female its lovely that you have a
compatible pair.> Also, at my LFS, they said I might try soaking the
ghost shrimp in a garlic stuff for more nutrients. <I like
using garlic with my frozen foods although it can be a tad smelly. I
also use vitamins in the frozen foods.> I did this, but they
also recommended either adding it directly to the tank or soaking my
other foods in this. <I am always cautious about adding things
straight to the tank. At least when it's in the food you know a lot
of it is getting inside them.> What are your thoughts on
garlic additives? Do I run the risk of fouling the water? <I
would think only if you way over dose the garlic. I do know of some
skimmers that stink like garlic pheweee.> I run an EcoSystem
system with a refugium underneath the tank and do a 10% change every
week or 8-9 days. <I would continue with the garlic in the
food method.> Also, the smaller lion has now recognized me as a food
source and is taking frozen foods. <Wonderful!!!.>
He/she loves Mysis now, but I have not gotten them to try Krill yet, so
that is why I am still doing some ghost shrimp. <Keeping some
ghost shrimp in the diet is fine but you want a way to give them a big
variety of meaty foods. Squid, silversides etc in frozen form. A large
variety of foods will keep them very healthy.> Hopefully soon I can
be on a complete frozen and meaty diet for them. <So very
thrilled for you. Congrats and keep me updated, MacL> Talk to you
soon! Brett
Adding a new lionfish Hey Mac- <Hey Brett, so great to
hear from you again!> So I finally got Big Daddy (my adult volitans
lionfish) a buddy.... Baby Daddy (I know...) <LOVE IT!!!> This is
a really juvenile Antennata lionfish. <I love antennata's but
they are a species that in my experience are very shy and need major
adjustment time.> I have a couple of questions, though because I
want to make sure I get him accustomed to his new home appropriately.
Unfortunately, I do not have the space in my apartment, so a quarantine
tank is not an option, so he went directly into the tank *With
appropriate acclimation procedures. He was visible for the entire first
day hiding in a covering. The second day, he remained hidden behind the
rocks, and he completely Disappeared today. I went short of removing
the rocks to look for him, because I was convinced Big Daddy ate him.
(BTW, I think that would be really physically impossible for him to
do). <Sadly I have seen lionfish eat things that there was no way
they could swallow. Seen them choke to death doing it as well. One of
my most unusual memories is pulling a panther grouper out of a
Lionfishes mouth because he was stuck in it. Not a fond memory
lol.> I found him tonight when the lights when off. I
tried feeding him with the lights off, but he is really scared of my
coming to the tank... <They really are a very shy creature.
Absolutely gorgeous though. To my mind, if he is hiding only during the
day he really is avoiding the new "scenery" and not Big
Daddy. The good news about this is that he should come around.>
Without being able to be close to the tank and watch, I have NO idea if
he is eating this late-night snack I have put in. Since he won't
come out in the day, I can't be certain he is making the switch to
frozen foods... (Which, I am now soaking in vitamins and providing a
nice variety.) <You might need to provide him with some live foods
while he makes the adjustment over to the frozen. In my experience
though, Lionfish will learn from other lions about potential food
sources, i.e. the frozen foods.> What should I do to make sure he
can eat? Keep trying? Feed at night like I am? Should I try some live
food? A few ghost shrimp until he gets used to me? If use ghost
shrimp...how long will they stay alive in the marine tank? Is it a
matter of minutes, hours or days? (This matters as to when I put them
in, of course.) <In my experience the ghost shrimp will live a
couple of hours in a saltwater tank. I think you could safely put them
in when you see him come out at night.> I hadn't found too much
information on the site about feeding a juvenile that remains
completely hidden during anything but almost complete darkness...Any
suggestions will be greatly appreciated. <Sometimes you can fool the
fish with a red light. Meaning you can see them when the red light is
on but they think its total darkness. This might give you a better
handle on how he is doing. And maybe allow you to make sure he
doesn't have any marks on him. And for what its worth don't
panic yet, these guys as you know can go a long time without eating.
Although, like you, I really hate to see them not eat.> Thanks,
Mac....your suggestions are always right on target! Have a great
week.... <Gosh Brett, thank you, that's very kind of you to say.
Please if he hasn't eaten in a week let me know so we can brain
storm and get some ideas going on how to get him more settled.
Mac>
Lionfish update MacL- I just realized tonight while I was
feeding my lionfish that I had never updated you in regards to my
question! My lionfish made a COMPLETE recovery!!!! I cannot thank you
enough for your suggestions. Just as you said, only time would heal his
jaw. I tried the live brine, but nobody in the tank touched them! I
couldn't believe it...it seems they are way too accustomed to
frozen foods now....<That's actually a good thing> and I was
slightly disappointed, because I love seeing the fish get excited over
live food, it usually entices them to be very active. With my lion, he
tried of course to eat, but his jaw wouldn't allow it. Eventually,
I saw him get a few small Mysis shrimp, and I immediately stuck a
frozen krill in the tank, held it in my hand until he took it very
gently. <WONDERFUL!!! SO GREAT!> For the next few days, he got so
determined I think to eat, that he did...and within a week his jaw
looked better! <Healed, I'm so happy for you> Anyway, when
you get a chance, I was wondering if you could advise me on creating a
staple diet for him. I feed only krill and Mysis, and I fear that is
not a balanced diet. (he actually takes dry food sometimes, as
well...weird.) What can I feed him to make sure he stays healthy and
around for a long time?? <<Mostly meat based foods, perhaps a
variety of frozen food and I might consider putting vitamins like
Selcon or Zo? Or SeaChem's brand so that he gets extra vitamins.>
Thanks again for all your help and encouragement a few months back.
<Brett you made my day. MacL> Brett Chisholm
Lionfish updates As is to be expected these days....I have
another question... :) At least I am doing my part to keep you busy!
<You are fine Brett, I just hope we can help you!> The juvenile
antennata has lost some of his coloring, and he pretty much looks
sickly to me. :( He really hasn't been eating what I think he
should. (Only that ONE ghost shrimp the whole week.) <Stress will do
that for him. Also you might want to check your water quality, you are
probably putting in more food which could mean problems.> My problem
has been getting the shrimp in the day from the LFS and then not having
any left in the tank when Baby Daddy is active at night, since Big
Daddy has eaten them all. <Right and that's also putting a lot
of ammonia into the tank from Big Daddy munching down.> So...to
solve my problem, I bought a little 2.5 gallon aquarium with a filter
to keep ghost shrimp in. (Is this excessive care for one fish?) <No
its the sign of someone who cares!!!> Anyway, I figured this way I
could really gut-load the hell outta the shrimp and pop them into the
big tank as needed when I see Baby Daddy in the open... <Makes sense
but you'll also have to deal with Big Daddy cause now he's used
to eating A LOT. I really think you need to think about a divider while
they eat.> My question is, since I went ahead and set up this little
tank, are ghost shrimp the best (I know they are still not very good)
but the best freshwater food source for the time being while I try and
get him accustomed to frozen food? <I think they are going to be the
easiest for you to feed. You can always try mollies, guppies or
goldfish but I'm always worried about doing that. The one thing
mollies have going for them is that they can survive if properly
acclimated to salt water.> Since I have the filtered
tank up and running, is there a better food source?
<I'd stick with the ghost shrimp simply because you know he is
definitely eating them.> Anyway, I am hoping this does this trick,
and I have two fat Lionfishes to report on in the near future....
<Me too and I really want to know if this helps.> Let me know, as
always, if you have any questions... <Brett, if the antennata is
feeling overwhelmed you may end up having to permanently separate them.
A picture of them size wise would help me but you'll have to use
your own thoughts on this. The thing is you have a new lion who would
probably be stressed just being new to your tank, much less having the
feeding difficulties. Keep up the good work Brett, you are on the right
path I think. MacL> Thanks again! Brett
Combining lionfish As always, thanks for your quick reply.
It's very appreciated by all of us who care and worry about our
pets. <I appreciate you saying that and then I don't answer all
weekend cause I'm dealing with soccer, Argh. Talk about
shooting one's self in the foot ha ha ha> Anyway, I followed
your advice and threw some ghost shrimp in the tank. <Good> I
observed Baby Daddy eat 1 only, but at least I saw him eat.
<Definitely good.> Big Daddy, of course, devoured most of the
rest, but I am sure both got some during the night while the light was
off...in the morning I found no dead shrimp. <I'm sure they did
as well.> The juvenile antennata (do you like how I try to add a bit
of professionalism to my query while at the same time, still having
referred to him as Baby Daddy, and lost all credibility!?<ha ha ha)
has also slowly started coming out of his "shell" so to speak
and can be visible several times throughout the day, and he sits on the
sand at night when the light is off. <That's really good,
he's becoming more accustomed to the tank.> However,
he is still a fainter color then when I purchased him from the store.
<I read this before I hit the sack last night and was thinking about
it. I think you might try using something to separate the two of them
when you feed. I was thinking, perhaps an acrylic sheet or egg crate or
something like that that you can put temporarily in the tank to divide
them while they eat?> I think Big Daddy is trying to show he is boss
every now and then, and it seems to spook the juvenile when he comes up
upon him. <Territorial thing most likely.> However, I still have
faith that Big D. will not try and eat him, because he has never come
close to trying to eat the Cardinalfish or flame angel he is housed
with. <I've seen lionfish eat things that are much too large for
their mouths.> The only other fish in the tank is a Rabbitfish, and
I would say the juvenile lion has a larger body size, excluding fins,
than the flame angel. I am confident if I keep Big Daddy fed, he will
stay away from terrorizing Baby Daddy. (One can hope.)<I've seen
tanks with multiple types of lionfish work successfully, if you can get
them both settled in.> I am going to try and gut load
some ghost shrimp this evening to give another feeding....do I just try
and feed them marine flake food? <You can.> Should I add vitamins
to their water as well, or does that do nothing? <You can soak the
food in the vitamins as well.> Also, just FYI, the ghost shrimp
lasted at least 6-7 hours in my tank. I didn't see any after that
point, so I don't know if they would have made it any
longer...<I really don't know how long they will live in marine
waters, hmmm . . . > Not really any major issues here....just giving
you an update, which I think you had requested... <Absolutely and I
do appreciate you doing it. Aren't lionfish amazing??> Have a
great holiday, and I am sure I will be talking to you in the future!
<Why thank you kindly and for yourself as well. <MacL>
Lionfish update Hey Mac - It's Brett again. <Hi
Brett so nice to hear from you. I am so so sorry for the delay in
getting with you. Computer problems : {> Thankfully, everything
is going well with the new lion after a month. He has a great
appetite, but still is hesitant to try frozen foods. He does LOVE
his ghost shrimp though. I am trying to gut load them when I have
time. :-\ I am hoping he makes the switch soon. How long before I
should start getting worried that ghost shrimp will no longer be
enough? <I think as long as you keep gutloading them you should
be okay Brett, I know you'd like to see him eat something
else!> One night, he ate so many I got worried, because he
couldn't swallow anymore and had the antenna of the shrimp
hanging out of his mouth for a couple of hours. He is a glutton and
a half! <EEEK that's not good you might have to start
limiting how many you put in there to control his diet.> On
another note, he and Big Daddy get along SO well. I am not sure if
this is normal behavior, so I included a few pictures... They seem
to be attached at the hip some days. I would say over 70% of the
time, they are actually touching when in the tank. I have never
personally seen lions act like this, and I thought it was weird do
to their size difference... What do you think? <I think lions
are for the most part very peaceful, and I'm tremendously glad
they are working out so well for you.> Thanks for your help,
talk to you soon I am sure. Hope everything is well. <Nothing a
new laptop wouldn't solve ha ha ha. Brett I'm so glad and I
so thank you for the updates. Please keep me in mind as they grow
up together! Remember too that at some point they will get huge and
possibly need to move to another tank.> Brett |
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Scorpionfishes:
Lionfishes & Much More for Marine Aquariums
Diversity, Selection & Care
New eBook on Amazon: Available
here
New Print Book on Create Space: Available
here
by Robert (Bob) Fenner |
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