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LEFT a pro, BACK a beginner! Skimmer start up
2/24/12 Skimmers And Carbon/Marine
Filtration 2/17/11 How to decide that I need a
skimmer 6/28/10 Protein skimmer, yes/no and
sel. 4/7/10 Skimmer use, or not at all,
& AquaC help 4/9/09
Skimmer or Not? 1/28/08 Long time reader first time emailer. <Hello Phil.> You guys are by far the most comprehensive website I've come across, it can take a while though to find an answer, basically because I spend hours going through your FAQs, something should be done so every online retailer has a link to your website. <Hee…would be nice.> I started out as most in freshwater, 20 gallon then a 46 gallon bow with live plants and African Cichlids which produced stunning results, but I moved on, giving a friend who appreciates the hobby all of my livestock. <Great to hear you were able to find them a good home.> Now I'm in the process, going on 2 years now, of setting up a reef. Essentially my 46 bow will be the display, the 20 gallon is the refugium, and I bought a 10 gallon as the sump (all glass), the cabinetry works out pretty well. Plenty of LR: Lalo and Tonga in the display with Fiji and red kelp in the refugium, and all the bits (lots of Tonga), Caulerpa algae, and bioballs in the sump which has a divider to prevent it from going/growing into the intakes. <I would skip the bioballs, they act as detritus traps and nitrate producers. Your other filtration you list, mainly the live rock, will be sufficient filtration.> Lighting is by Current 130 watts of SunPaq compact fluorescents 65w daylight 65w actinic over the refugium and a SunPod model with dual 150watt HQI lamps over the display (I have a 20watt actinic over the display which I realize is totally unnecessary and kinda looks tacky, but I like the additional "dusk affect" in the water not provided by the SunPod) just a fluorescent for the 10 gallon sump, Caulerpa does fine. Coral Life digital timers that rotate the lights, MHs are on for 12 hours a day. <Sounds good.> The refugium is fed using a Fluval 304 canister filter (from my old freshwater display...no chemical filtration, just mechanical and biological) <Same word of caution here as the bioballs, do be sure to clean the canister frequently.> and the display uses a Quiet One 1200. (I believe the Fluval is rated at 300gph and the 1200 is 500-600gph it's been over a year since I did my calculation and took into consideration the height to each tank, blogs that I've read tell me this is adequate water flow) CPR overflow boxes which both feed into the sump and it's all hard plumbed. I also have two Koralia Nano powerheads (240gph each) hooked up to a wavemaker in the display tank, the refugium has 3 Rio 50 powerheads to add additional water movement/agitation there. <OK> Back when my saltwater endeavor got started and I was just messing around with the 20 gallon and 10 gallon sump, I purchased a SeaClone skimmer for like 100 bucks. It did produce foam and I would periodically empty the collection cup, but the consensus on all the blogs and your website was they are totally worthless so I've gone without now for the past 6 months or so, used to hang on the back of my refugium. <I wouldn't consider these totally worthless, they just require frequent tweaking to keep them producing a skimmate. There are just better choices out there.> I don't have a master test kit but all my parameters are still at 0 except for ammonia which seems to have gone to .25 give or take towards the lower (a little more green now than the creamy yellow...a Dr. Well Fish kit that tests for the essentials) since I ditched the skimmer. <Something is amiss here, ammonia should be 0. Have you had any recent die off in your tank?> I keep specific gravity close to 1.025 and ph is at 8.0 although I use a buffer that is rated for 8.3. I read this one guy's site a while back who had an impressive setup without a skimmer and he gave a list of reasons why you shouldn't use a skimmer, basically it filters out a lot of stuff you want in a naturally thriving ecosystem. <And much, much more of the stuff you don't want.> He wrote that as long as you wait in the range of 6 months between each new addition to your tank from LR and sand (which I have about 4 inches in display and 3 or so in refugium) as well as each new specimen of livestock, your system will reach a natural equilibrium without a skimmer. Any thoughts? <I would never recommend setting up a marine tank without a skimmer. Sure, it can be done without, but a skimmer makes things so much easier. The trace elements that skimmers are rumored to remove in mass quantities are in reality easily replaced by regular water changes. In addition a skimmer will provide aeration to a system that cannot be provided to the same extent otherwise, maybe accounting for your PH, despite your buffering product you are using.> I do a 10 gallon water change every week, RO/deionized water, only I do it by 2.5 gallons each time. In other words I leave the system running...siphon water from the display wait for the sump to go down to my 2.5 gallon line and add new water, wait, repeat. Any thoughts on this? <Sounds fine, we all have individual techniques.> My inhabitants haven't shown any ill effects since the removal of my skimmer. <Eventually they will prove to be better off with a skimmer.> Currently there's the standard "cleaner crew" of hermit crabs and snails. A Tridacna clam, which is perched very nicely on a piece of live rock and appears to be thriving under the MH's, a nice sized green mushroom and a colony of polyps that appear to be growing. I recently purchased a BTA and Yellow Striped Maroon Clownfish. Which leads to my other question, have you heard of a BTA avoiding light. <Yes, it will should end up seeking the light.> It isn't wandering, but seems to have situated himself on a shaded overhang of a large piece of Lalo LR where he hangs there, almost like he's avoiding light...a couple inches over and it's a lot lot brighter. I've had the two now for almost a month, and he's been hanging there now for about 3 weeks (the clownfish and the BTA are in a "relationship" by the way). <If he does not seek light over shade, I would be concerned.> Any comments on my setup and suggestions for future inhabitants would be appreciated. Phil Arizona <Included are a couple of related articles and all related FAQ's to get you started on what is next. Good luck, Scott V.> http://wetwebmedia.com/marine/inverts/cnidaria/anthozoa/bubbletipanemones.htm http://wetwebmedia.com/toskimornotfaq.htm http://wetwebmedia.com/nh3marfaqs.htm Re: Blind Green Spotted Puffer... now, what is a skimmer 11/29/07 Thank you so much for your help! <No problem, that's what I'm here for.> One more thing though, what exactly is a protein skimmer? I hear about them but what exactly do they do? <Their purpose is to remove small organic particles and dissolved proteins in the water. The proteins are the result of decomposition or digestion of food and dead organisms. These proteins have an "end" that's attracted to the air-water interface. So the particles are drawn into the chamber where a stream of fine bubbles is injected. The particles adhere to the surface of the bubbles and are pushed upward (by the bubbles beneath) into the collection cup, where they can later be removed. This prevents the organics from decomposing further where they can add to the ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate in the tank (and thereby reducing the nutrients available for algae growth). More info: http://www.simplifiedreefkeeping.com/faq/16.htm > What would you consider a good one? <Here is a critique of many models available: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/ca/cav1i1/protein_skimmer_impressions.htm Unless you plan on plumbing your tank into a sump, your choices are narrowed to hang on back (HOB) styles. I had good success with the Coralife Super Skimmer (once you get it dialed in properly) & you would want the larger 220 model for a 90-100g tank. I know that tank size probably seems huge compared to what you have now but this is what I recommend you get for your 3 GSPs--they will grow into it quickly. They also love a lot of decoration to investigate, so the tank won't look so empty and eventually, you could add a few colorful SW fish as tank mates. Here is a picture of my 55g with my 3 poor puffers crowded into it: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v345/Pufferpunk/Pufferpics/55gGSPTank.jpg I eventually had to rehome them, as I didn't feel it was fair keeping them in that small of a tank.> I'll let you know how we are doing in a couple of weeks. Oh, and just to clarify, I should be partially changing the water 2-3 times a day or 2-3 times a week until the ammonia/nitrate levels are down to 0?? <2-3x/day, until your ammonia & nitrite are 0.> That won't mess up the bacteria stuff the tank needs or anything? (sorry if that sounds stupid). <No, it won't--the bacteria that you need is mostly on surfaces of the tank--substrate, decor & filter material. I suggest looking into a local reef club for a good deal on live rock, sand, tank system, protein skimmer, etc. Try: http://reefcentral.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=80 Check the many forums at that site for a ton of info on keeping a SW aquarium. Best to purchase totally cured live rock from local reefers, than chance uncured rock from a shop. Otherwise, it will be quite some time before your puffers get into their new home, as you will have to wait for the rock to cure (lots of die-off on uncured rock). Good luck, this will be an exciting adventure for you & your puffers! ~PP> Thanks, Chris. Possible alternative Protein Skimmer - 10/01/07 Hi there <Good morning> I would like to confirm if my logic on the following is correct. When I started my FWLR marine tank I only used a canister filter for filtration and had my system run for 2 years maintenance free. <Hmmm, I'm not sure what you must mean by "maintenance free." Are you saying that you have not cleaned your canister filter or done a water change in two years? Eek, I hope not!> It is now only recently when I am intending to start a reef system that I am reading a lot about protein skimmers. I recall that my canister filter had the intake above my air-stone (drawing air into the filter) which caused an effect of a stream of fine bubbles being shot out at regular intervals and I found this quite pleasing as an effect. I only now realize that this could possibly have had a "skimming" effect and is the reason my system was successful and managed a high bio-load. <I highly doubt this is the reason.> Correct me if I'm wrong but in principle, if any canister filter draws air in which is chopped up by the impeller and then pushed through the filter material then this is effectively a protein skimming effect? <I see why you're thinking this way. However, there's a bit more to protein skimming than the production of a lot of bubbles. The bubbles have to move up a column (leaving the water) and ultimately be collected. What's happening right now in your canister filter is that the bubbles aren't leaving the water. They're simply being created, then diced up and forced through a mechanical filter. This doesn't allow the mechanical filter to do anything it wouldn't otherwise be doing. Beyond this, it's a bit difficult to explain, but I'll try. Protein skimmers remove protein via the hydrophobic nature of many proteins (and/or their hydrophobic appendages). The hydrophobic proteins "want" to leave the water and the formation of bubbles (a water/air interface) give them that chance, but only if the bubbles can collect somewhere out of the water (i.e. in a skimmer cup). This is unlike mechanical and biological filters which utilize very different methods for removal/conversion. The filter of a canister filter won't remove any proteins using bubbles than it otherwise wouldn't when not making bubbles. The proteins will simple re-dissolve and move right through the filter again. The canister filter doesn't act like a protein skimmer unless it can somehow REMOVE the bubbles. Otherwise, it's just "teasing" the hydrophobic proteins, making bubbles but with no where for the bubbles to go except back into the water (even so through the filter).> If this is true, would it not be a great alternative for the hobbyist? <I hope my explanation helps you see why this is not the case.> Regards, Shaheen <Best, Sara M.> Protein Skimmer and stress? Adding a Skimmer 8/7/07 Hello from Tennessee WWM crew! <Hello> I have a two year old system (36g) and have finally bought a protein skimmer (AquaC remora)! <I think you will be happy with this unit.> I connected it to my tank today and of course I have some microbubbles. However my fishes seem to be freaking out and hiding. Will this stress them out and cause a death? <Doubtful, they will get use to it.> If so, what do you think should be done? <Nothing, give them a little time.> My other question is....probably an obvious no but...Can I alternate the skimmer between that tank and my 125g? The specs are for 20-80 gallons for the skimmer but hopefully you will grant me permission to alternate them??? <You could, although it will be underpowered for the 125, but I'm not sure why you would want to. Really both tanks would benefit from their own full time skimmer.> <Chris> Do I need a Protein Skimmer? 8/4/07 Hello, I was just wondering if I need a protein skimmer. I have a 35 gallon tank with life rock and crushed coral at the bottom and when I stir the coral or blow off the rocks the stuff that is stirred up does not get sucked up into the sump/sponge filter. Thanks <<Brandi: Unless you are trying to keep SPS corals, you really don't need a protein skimmer. Even then, you can grow SPS corals without one. If you stir the coral/sand of most tanks, all sorts of stuff will enter the water column. For that reason, most people don't stir the coral/sand. However, I have seen fish stores and tank maintenance people do it. When they do, they use a siphon right above the coral/sand to vacuum up all the stuff that gets stirred up. You could also use the same technique on the rocks if you like. Best of luck, Roy>> Protein Skimmer Question 7/3/07 Crew, <Randall> My protein skimmer broke about a year ago. Since then I have used only a 40g. refugium with assorted green algae. My tank is a 120g. community tank containing a Flame Angel, Kole Tang, an anemone with a Skunk Clown, an Engineer Goby, a fairy wrasse and a cardinal, four large Acropora, Pulsing Xenia, several Torch and Hammer Corals and three clams as well as about six different mushrooms and polyps. My live rock is up to about 8" from the top with lots of caves and crevasses for good circulation throughout. In the year since I stopped skimming, using any mechanical filtration or pads, my water has remained pristine and everything in my tank grows like gangbusters. Everyone tells me I must protein skim, but no one can tell me exactly why. I go to your site whenever I have a need for information and haven't been disappointed yet. Can you tell me the chemical/biological rational for skimming? Is there some organic toxin building up that my refugium or weekly 5 to 7g water changes won't clear? <There are many aquarists that do not incorporate skimmers in their systems. If stocking levels are kept low, and as you, a nice size refugium is maintained, and nitrate and phosphate readings are low, then I'd leave well enough alone. Clams alone will absorb some of the nitrates, and your assorted algae will do the same along with reducing the phosphate level. You did not mention your nitrate or phosphate levels, but am assuming they are low. Do read here on one writer's opinion of protein skimming. http://www.wetwebmedia.com/ca/volume_2/cav2i6/Reef%20Ramblings/ramblings.htm As to the use of a protein skimmer, they remove dissolved waste from the water. Do search our site, keyword, protein skimming, and you will find much more information on this subject.> Thank you for all your hard work and contributions to the hobby, Randall Link <You're welcome, James (Salty Dog)> Re: Coralife Skimmer Won't "Skim", skimmer use/f' - 05/12/07 What exactly is the importance of a protein skimmer? <<Mmm...total removal (as in "from the water column") of organic/toxic elements, increased oxygenation, elevated redox, pH support...>> Nobody has been able to explain this in terms that make it seem important to the maintenance of a saltwater tank. <<These don't seem important?>> Is it really a necessity? <<Largely a matter of opinion...mine is yes, they "are" a necessity. But on the same note, there are hobbyists who don't use/are successful without skimmers. But this requires attention to detail/system balance most aquarists don't or won't apply...in my opinion. Regards, EricR>> Watchman goby and Nori, and skimmer op. 1/16/07 For about 4 years I have maintained a 90 gallon, with 30 gallon sump, soft coral reef tank with 125 lbs of live rock. The residents are one Maroon Clown (Premnas biaculeatus), one Orange line Cardinal (Apogon cyanosoma), one Pink Damsel (Chrysiptera rex), one Half Black Pygmy Angel (Centropyge vroliki), a recent addition one Purple Tang (Zebrasoma xanthurum), that is healing slowly but surely from HLLE that had overrun him in the pet store, <Good way to put this> one Blue Spotted Watchman Goby (Cryptocentrus leptocephalus), one Coral Banded Shrimp, two feather dusters, various micro-verts and worms. My question is three part. 1. Since I have introduced the Purple tang, I have kept him with an almost constant supply of Nori to help combat the HLLE. <Do soak this... Selcon, Microvit or such...> Recently the watchman goby has been tearing and making off with LARGE pieces then greedily and aggressively defending and eating the Nori until he is packed solid. I know he is eating other foods because I see him sift sand, grab small 'pods, and even take the occasional flake that floats by. Is this typical? <Mmm, no> Is he just trying to eat the micropods that take up residence in the seaweed that is left unattended for a few hours? <Don't know... is this fish coming to the surface... is this where the clip is? Very unusual> I assume this isn't too dangerous as almost all creatures of the sea eat greens some way or another. <Yes> 2. My nitrates are less than 5ppm (another assumption since my test starts at ten and there appears to be some very minor nitrate discoloration in the test but for the most part is almost unnoticeable) which I believe is due to the 125lbs of very seeded live rock and the hair algae and macroalgae I grow and harvest freely. I do not run a protein skimmer as the impeller broke two years ago and I never replaced it. My fish never seemed to suffer. <Not likely an issue in a well-balanced, established, maintained system as yours> All other parameters are always well within limits. I am interested in adding a Foxface Lo (Siganus vulpinus) which I know may be too many fish with no skimmer (also aware of potential aggression issues with tang). Is this a worthy add or will I need to add a skimmer? <Mmm, yes, I would> 3. If I were to add a skimmer would this be a big impact on my filter feeders? <Yes, likely so...> My feather dusters, which I know are difficult to feed, have been eating naturally in the tank for quite some time and I would hate to inadvertently take their food away from them. I would prefer not to have to target feed. <Perhaps an under-sized unit... or running the skimmer on a punctuated basis... on a timer... every few hours to days> Thanks for the site, time, and sharing the passion. Nashville <Thank you. Bob Fenner> Protein Skimmer sel. 12/29/06 Hi, <Hi Nick, Mich here.> I was wondering if I really need a protein skimmer. <Need is a strong word, but protein skimmers are highly recommend.> I was initially told that I did not need one but now I think I do. <If you think you do, you most likely do.> I have a 54 gallon reef tank with 2 Elephant Ears <Yikes! Will eat your livestock, likes cardinals.>, a large green star polyp colony, a pipe organ coral, 2 zoo colonies, a pearl bubble coral, a green mushroom rock, a brown mushroom rock, a small colt coral. I also have a coral beauty, 2 percula clowns, a six line wrasse, a royal Gramma, 2 fire fish, 2 green Chromis, 2 Banggai cardinals. <Quite a heavy fish and coral load for no protein skimmer.> I have a Fluval 404 for main filtration, temp is kept at 78-80 F, I also have 2 powerheads moving the water. My problem is that I was recently told that I need a protein skimmer. <I think your system would benefit from a skimmer.> The aquarium has been set up for over a year and has been doing great. I have been getting various opinions and thought I would ask a real professional. I want to know because my aquarium has been doing great and all of the levels fine. <Tank is still relatively young.> Calcium: 410 ppm Alkalinity: 9 dKH pH: 8.2 Everything else is fine. I would like to know if I should get a protein skimmer even though all of my coral and fish are fine. Is it overkill. <I don't think it's overkill.> Also I just got an opportunity to get a great deal on a Bak Pak 2 protein skimmer. Any help is appreciated. <We are big fans of skimmers. Hope that helps.> Thanks, <Welcome! -Mich> Nick Skimmer vs. Filter. and a whole lotta nitrates! 11/25/2006 Hi I had a small accident with my Skilter filter and no longer have a skimmer as a result. My question is do you think I can get away with just the Unimax pro 250 canister filter and my small bio wheel filter on my 55 salt tank or must I replace the skimmer. <<A skimmer does not do the same job as a filter, so yes, you should acquire a skimmer. I am not a fan of the 'skilter' types, and would opt for a stand-alone skimmer. I love Aqua-C's. A would also phase out use of the canister and bio-wheel on your tank, as I see below you are utilizing live rock.>> I have the intake to the Unimax filter about five inches below water level. I am also using two power heads top side/water level and I do not see any foam build up when I use them as aeration. <<This is not an appropriate test of the need for a skimmer.>> My tank only has live sand and rock and five fish. <<Only 5 fish could mean only 5 Chromises, or only 5 barracuda!>> I was feeding flake food twice a day but now have gone to once a day and plan to lower it to once every two days. <<Try to vary the diet as much as you can, providing frozen as well.>> My Blue spotter puffer <<Are you feeding your puffer flake foods? To grind down it's beak and be in good health, your puff needs crunchy foods like crabs legs, snails, cockles, mussels, shell-on people shrimp, and anything else (except fish) you can get in the seafood department in your grocery store. Come visit www.pufferresources.net, for any info you need, or to just chat about your awesome pet!>> And fire angel as well as sand sifting goby are grazers <<They are not only grazers, although they may pick at the rock, that is not where all their nutrition can come from.>> however puffer and goby and maroon striped clown as well as yellow tail damsel like the flake food but I think they can survive the lower flake food feeding. <<Please do amend this diet.>> It is also my hope to lower the waters nitrate level with the lower feedings as this level is in the red zone on the testing chart. <<Get on some large water changes in the meantime, Your tank really is overstocked, not by the number of fish, as that number means little, but by the adult size, aggressiveness, and waste of your fish. An upgrade is in order.>> I used Prime water conditioner when I last changed 50% of the tanks water and immediately retested the nitrate level and still it shows the same reading about 160 Did I do something wrong or is prime the cause? <<Prime would not affect this reading. Likely that the nitrates were even higher off the chart before. Re-test to be sure.>> I use Instant Ocean as the salt source and it says no nitrates. The Unimax pro 250 has only been running going on two weeks. Will this canister filter help lower the nitrates? <<No.>> James <<James, start looking at daily water changes of ~25% until your nitrate problem is resolved. In the meantime, look into acquiring a larger tank for your fish. Hope to see you at www.pufferresources.net! Lisa>> Re: Stocking Level For A 175 Gallon Tank 9/6/06 I really appreciate your help and advice. I am going to head out to the LFS and check out prices and hopefully get my tank up to par. I have two more dumb question for you though. <No dumb questions, just dumb answers.> If I am going for a fish only tank how important is it to replace the apparently dead live branch with live stuff? <Not important, just adds a little beauty and is beneficial in the nitrogen cycle.> And the protein skimmer, what exactly is it's purpose and how important is it. <It removes dissolved proteins in the water which helps overall water quality and thereby reducing nutrients for nuisance algae. I am very new to this and the guys at the LFS are not very helpful when it comes to these questions. Like I said they told me that everything was fine for the tank, but apparently they were not very accurate with their information. <I will start you out with a couple links on nutrient control and skimmers. http://www.wetwebmedia.com/ca/cav1i1/protein_skimmer_impressions.htm http://www.wetwebmedia.com/proskimrart2.htm http://www.wetwebmedia.com/nutrientcontrol.htm I suggest you search our vast database of information on any question you may have. Much can be learned here. Good luck in your new venture. James (Salty Dog)> To Skim Or Not To Skim 8/31/06 Hi Folks, <Hello Jan> My question regards protein skimming. I have a 72G tank (Oceanic, reef ready) with about 100 lbs. of LR and a 20 gallon refugium (EcoSystem). The system has been up and running for about 5 months. Water parameters are all good (SG=1.023, pH=8.2, Ammonia & Nitrite=0ppm, Nitrate<5ppm, Ca=450ppm, Mg=1380ppm). These numbers have been consistent for months now. The protein skimmer that came with the refugium runs full time. There are 5 Chromis, 1 firefish, 1 shrimp and 2 turbo snails. I just put my first piece of coral (star polyp) in the tank and so far it's doing great. Now here's the thing. My LFS owner is telling me that the skimmer is not needed at this point. He says that the LR, LS & refugium are sufficient w/o the skimmer! I replied that this is contrary to EVERYTHING that I have read and/or heard. He points to his many beautiful tanks of fish and corals, etc. and his refugiums and tells me that he hasn't run a skimmer in 2 years!!! I swear that his livestock is healthy, colorful and active. He says that the skimmer is robbing nutrients and micro organisms much needed by the corals. He further states (with convincing confidence) that in 5 years his opinion will become the new status quo. I'm really confused. I am increasingly aware of the varied opinions & methods in this hobby but this seems pretty radical, while making a certain amount of sense. Your knowledge & experience brought to bear on this would be of great assistance. <With an EcoSystem Refugium, you could get away without using a skimmer provided your stocking level is kept low. I have recently evaluated a hang on Ecosystem Refugium and have found that after three months, with weekly water changes, nuisance algae became a problem due to excess nutrients in the water. Keep in mind, in this evaluation, no carbon/Chemi-Pure was used. I re-employed the skimmer along with the use of Chemi-Pure and have noticed no ill effects whatsoever. Corals still reproduce and look healthy as well as the fish and other inverts. If weekly weekly water changes are carried out, the amount of beneficial nutrients removed by the skimmer will have little or no effect on your system. One thought to keep in mind is that your LFS's tanks are continually replenished with new sea water, as this water is placed in the bags for every livestock item he sells. Do read this article by Steven Pro, should settle your nerves. http://www.wetwebmedia.com/proskimrart2.htm> Thanks for your help!! <You're welcome. James (Salty Dog)> Jan Kicking Up Water Quality! - 5/11/06 Hi Bob/ staff <Hi there! Scott F. here today!> I need your honest professional opinion on my issue. I have been arguing with my mom about buying a me new skimmer for my reef. She refuses to buy me an aqua C or Berlin or a real serious skimmer along that line because she seems to think I don't need one. This is because the idiot at the LFS said I don't need one and mine is fine. I don't think it is fine nor do I think you will either: 29 G glass tank aprox 25 lbs LR 4 medium sized fish (that poop big though) 3 soft & one Acropora coral JBJ 150 watt CPs Skilter (shudder) skimmer with modified airstone (venturi crap removed) Pro Clear 50 gal wet dry 300 gph I have been battling algae and nitrates for some time now. Will you please give your opinion about my skimmer and make any suggestions about what would be good for the described tank above. bottom line-Do I need a better skimmer? Thank you very much in advance. Any response is appreciated. Thank you. <Well, first of all, I must "respectfully disagree" with the guy at the LFS. In my experience and opinion, a protein skimmer is pretty much a necessity on any marine system. It's your first line of defense for a variety of potential calamities. As far as your skimmer is concerned, any skimmer is better than no skimmer. Of course, some are better than others, and you need to make sure that your skimmer is producing a stinky, dark skimmate regularly. If that can't happen, you really may want to consider a more capable skimmer. There are a lot of potential changes you could mek to your system to reduce the nitrate and improve water quality. You can start by removing the bioballs or other plastic media from the wet/dry filter. Make sure that you are utilizing high quality source water (RO/DI) f? your water changes. Also, make use of chemical filtration media, such as activated carbon/Polyfilter to assist with the removal of organics. Stay at those regular, small water changes. For more information on ways to increase water quality, see this link: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/nutrientcontrol.htm Perhaps it will provide you with a few ideas. Good luck! Regards, Scott F.> <<You know what I say? "Get out there and start (lawn) mowing!" RMF>> Skimmerless? - 03/07/2006 Hello Bob, Maybe you can answer a newbie question for me. 55 gallon tank 55 gallon refugium with miracle mud cale ..etc.. 110lbs live rock 2"live sand in main tank. I would like to grow a few corals (small soft). And will only have 2 percula clowns and 1 yellow tang. Could I get away without a skimmer as suggested on other sites? Thanks for your input. Jeff <<You can get away without a skimmer, but one is highly recommended. Without a skimmer, I would suggest more frequent water changes (20% twice a month instead of once a month) and this will quickly end up costing as much as a skimmer. Best regards. AdamC.>> Alternative to a Protein
Skimming 11/23/05 Hello WWW crew, <John> I have been
hitting your site for the past couple months and I must say that I am
very impressed. Before I even ask my question I would like to sincerely
thank each and every one of you for the time and effort you have put
into this awesome resource for us hobbyists. <Welcome> Anyway, I
have been keeping FW fish for about 20 years, most recently a 29gal
species tank of small Africans. I have since passed this system on to
my son and I have decided to take the plunge into SW. Because of many
factors, space being the primary, I have decided to resurrect a spare
29gal in my son's room that I have moved my cichlid
"colony" into. My existing 29 is going to be my new SW FO or
FOWLR setup. I am still early in the process, though I do have my
substrate and water in the tank along with my new canister filter to
begin cycling. I have also done a minor light upgrade. I am figuring
about 4 to 6 weeks before my first livestock will be added. I plan to
have about 3 or maybe 4 small fish (clown, damsel etc.). First I will
be adding 20lbs of base rock and a couple lbs of LR and attempt to
"grow" my own LR over the next year or so. I have found
answers to almost all of my questions by browsing your awesome site
forums and FAQs. One question that I am not clear on is the about a
protein skimmer. I really would prefer to set up the tank without a lot
of high tech expense. My question(s) are these; is there any value to a
"surface skimmer" that attaches to the filter input? <Mmm,
not that will function as a skimmer per se. There were some puny
Undergravel Filter discharge riser types years back... they didn't
work> Can it remove organics that tend to rise to the water surface
effectively without foam fractionation in a controlled chamber? <Not
effectively> I am also considering using a ceramic stone to create
fine bubbles in the middle of the tank and let the surface skimmer pull
the DOC off the surface of the water. The thing is, I prefer to have no
air and as few non-display object visible in my tank as possible.
Thanks in advance for any input. John <A good thought... I would
look into an inexpensive "in-tank" skimmer that runs off an
airstone like a Sander's or Lee's unit here, or an outside one
like a Seaclone or if your son can stand the noise, a Prizm. Bob
Fenner> Refugium/Skimmer Question - 09/10/05 We are setting up a 92 gallon corner bow front reef tank. The part of the setup in question is the filtration. Will a 20 gallon refugium be enough to handle all of the waste, or do we need a protein skimmer as well? <<While a refugium is a very "beneficial" addition to any tank, it is my opinion that a quality skimmer is an "essential" addition.>> It seems like it would definitely be a good idea, but we were still wondering if it is possible to run without a protein skimmer and still have good results. <<Is possible to do without a skimmer, yes, I just don't like to recommend doing so...so many advantages/benefits to having one.>> Thank you, Cassie <<Regards, EricR>> Re: PRIZM DELUXE PROTEIN SKIMMER Thanks for your reply, If money wasn't a problem I would get the AquaC, I am looking at a few Prizm deluxe models on eBay for around $40.00 (used). In your opinion, would the Prizm Delux do a satisfactory job.<I can tell you this Rick. On my 29 mini reef, the Prizm Deluxe has about a half inch of skimmate in it weekly.> How much better is the AquaC Remora?<If both were to be used on a 29, I would go with the Prizm for cost effectiveness. On tanks 40 and up, I would go with the AquaC. I've used an AquaC on my 180 and it certainly took out loads of waste. They are very efficient.> The owner of a local pet store isn't using any skimmer on 2 tanks that he has (not sure of size but they are at least 70 gal) and also an employee of his doesn't use one. Do you feel that this is an acceptable practice or is a skimmer a must?<This depends on several factors. If the tank is not overcrowded, not overfed, water changed weekly along with siphoning debris from the substrate, and good chemical filtration, no, you could probably get away without one, but the use of a skimmer adds to the overall health of a tank. James (Salty Dog) Thanks, Rick Clam, tankmate, skimmer Y/N questions Hi Mr. Fenner, <Hello there Tammy!> First of all I wanted to say I read your book the Conscientious Marine Aquarist and I loved it. It is so informative for the new hobbyist which is what I am. <Glad you found it of use> My name is Tammy. I know you probably get tons of emails a day so if you are to busy I understand but if you have time would you please write back to me. I do plan on reading more about marine fish before I start my tank but I had some questions if you have time to answer. I did as you said and have thought of the fish and invertebrates I would love to have and would just like to know if they would work together. I definitely want to have a clam. I know you say to start with a fish only tank but that holds no interest for me. I have had freshwater fish for about 11 years. I got my first tank when I was ten and have always had fish. I want to do more and invertebrates just so captivate me that they seem like a good step. <You sound like you're more than ready!> I know clams are not very easy but you listed some for the beginner and that is what I plan to begin with. Now in your book you do not mention good tankmates for clams..........just bad. <Ahh, welcome to our site (WetWebMedia.com). Please read here: http://wetwebmedia.com/tridaccompfaqs.htm> So I would like to know if there are any good shrimp or crabs that would work with them. <Several smaller species, families of shrimps... not many crabs> Also my husband has to have some fish so I would like to know if Clown fish and Damsels would work well. <Yes> Through reading I would think they would but maybe I misunderstood some of the book or am just not remembering correctly. Lastly a co-worker (I work for a large pet store) told me that if I use a lot of live rock for a reef type set up that I would not have to have a skimmer. I don't believe that was he is saying is true because again from reading your book you seem to for sure recommend them but I just had to ask. <At some point, in well-balanced systems with LR, one can get by w/o a skimmer, but I WOULD definitely get/use one for the first several months... show your co-worker the gunk it takes out!> I know this is a lot of questions and I know some of them probably seem stupid and I should have the answers after reading your book but if you have time I would really love to hear back from you. Thank you so much for you time, Tammy <Nice to have made your acquaintance. Bob Fenner> Do I need a skimmer for a 180 gal FOWLR? 8/2/04 I have decided to follow all the great ideas I have stolen from your site! I am putting together a 55 gallon sump (made from a 55 gallon glass aquarium) for my new 180 gallon aquarium with dual overflows which will house 3 adult Lionfish and lots of live rock. I am placing a glass baffle in the sump tank so that the incoming water hits the skimmer first (after passing through 2 filter socks which I will rinse daily) and maintains a set water level for the skimmer. The water then flows over the baffle into the bigger sump area, which is where I have 2 heaters. I am planning on putting as many small chunks of live rock in this area as I can keep submerged. The water will then pass over another baffle where the return pump will send water back to the tank. My questions are; does this sound like I'm on the right path? << Sounds great. >> Do I need Caulerpa algae in this sump? << Nope, but I think it is a great idea, and I would do it. >> Do I need to light this sump? is 2000 gph enough flow through the sump? too much? and finally... do I really need to spend almost $600 on a Euroreef skimmer? << I would personally rather have the lights and the algae growing and not have a skimmer. So if cost is an issue, I say start there. The water flow is great, don't worry about that. Also, I would see some skimmers and ask some friends before making a purchase. I've never spent that much on a skimmer, but maybe if I did I would just love it. >> or is there another brand that would do as well for less? I am going to be relying on the skimmer and live rock for all my filtration needs, and realize the bio-load is high, so I know I need a good skimmer. << Yes, with lionfish you will need some filtration. However, you didn't say anything about having any other fish, so I'm not too worried with your system. >> Am I even close to being on the right track? << Sounds good to me, good luck. >> << Blundell >> Protein skimmer <Hi, MikeD here> I was given a salt water set up for Christmas last year. I think it is 36gal tank. It has 1" sand bottom with 16lb live rock, bio ball wet dry filter and a protein skimmer. We have had little success with fish living more than a month. The first time a home improvement landed a piece of drywall in the tank killing every thing before it was found behind a rock.<You have my kind of luck> The next round of fish and cleaner shrimp lasted from April till July. The main circulator pump stopped while we were on vacation.<You definitely have my kind of luck!> I thought all was lost again. The tank was a mess brown and nasty smelling. While doing a 75% water change we found that some residents had survived,<Not all that surprising> I am down to 1 Watchman Goby and 5 snails that look like white spiral Hershey kisses, and more Bristle worms than I can count (which from reading all day are a good thing). Looking for any help I could get I started checking into more info on your site and came across the skimmer info. After reading several inputs on your web site, I think my skimmer has never worked. The water just sort of turns inside, not like a tornado effect I have seen on display at the store. It has never bubbled anything into the collection cup on top.<This is totally ineffective and needs to be repaired or replaced> Do I need a more powerful air or water pump or a different kind of skimmer?<Without knowing what kind of skimmer you have and how it's powered, possibly all three> Or can I get by with out one?<Yes, you CAN get by without one, but it means a LOT more partial water changes and constant testing. If possible, it should be one of the most important parts of your system and can make a huge difference in your success or failure in the hobby> Thank you,<You're very welcome> Melissa Resides Skimmers Hi,<Howdy!> I was thinking of setting up a saltwater tank and was wondering if you are required to have a protein skimmer on the tank if you are only going to keep maybe 1-2 fish. I was also wondering if a regular hang on filter would work or if you should have a filter with a BioWheel. Thanks.<It all depends on well, a lot of things. What size tank, types of fish, sizes... Ever since I started using skimmers I have considered them a requirement. It certainly can be done without but skimmers, in my opinion are a must. Cody> Can it go Sans Skimmer? >Hey Crew, quick question from a daily reader but seldom poster.. >>Alright. >I recently upgraded my 30G reef tank to 55G AGA with over-flow.. So everything has been moved over from the 30G over the past three weeks to the 55G and the only new addition was another 20lb bag of Carib-Sea sand which was placed under the live sand from the 30G (tank was 6 months old, became too small quicker than expected). I had been using a CPR back-pack on the 30 Gallon with decent but not overwhelming results - and after reading many posts I have decided to go with a small "whipp'n" Euro-reef skimmer in the next few weeks ahead. In the meantime the only place the CPR will fit on the 55G is right on front and I can't stand it there and have not set it up.. So the question - how long can I safely run my new tank with just the overflow into wet/dry and powerheads before I see poor results?? >>Depends on whether or not you're willing to do more water changes, and MANY other variables (too many for me to accurately quantify). >The tank contains 40 lbs of live rock (half Marshal Island/ the other half Fiji) snails, hermits, 1 cleaner shrimp, 1 flame back angel, 2 Percula clowns, 1 six-line wrasse, neon goby and an algae blenny.. salt 33ppm, 0 - 0 - 0 am/na/ni, PH 8.3, alk 10 and calcium 350(rising slowly toward 400 with SeaChem reef advantage calcium).. >>You've listed no stony corals or other calcium requiring animals, why are you dosing with a respectable level of 350? >Through the change-over process (1st week sand/salt water, 2nd weeks live rock/soft corals and cleaners, just this past weekend fish) I've been replacing 5 gallons every Sunday with Tropic Marin and RO/DI water. >>Well, if you want to maintain best water quality, I'd at least double that amount changed, and might even do it every five days. However, it doesn't *sound* as though your tank is overstocked such that you need to be very aggressive with water changes. Watch your nitrogenous waste levels, that helps make the decision for you. >Everything looks healthy, mushrooms are much larger and polyps have begun to spread in these past few weeks.. No other corals just a handful various softies. >>They may be liking the water changes, and as I said, I'd double the amount. 10% does little for dilution of any substance, including DOCs. You're looking for 25%-30% per week as a starting point, unless you've got a well-established refugium. If you set up that 30 as a 'fuge, you could end up foregoing skimming altogether. D'oh! Did I just say that? Yeppers! Sorry.. >Thanks! Brad Brookline, MA >>You're welcome, I think your setup will be fine, just do the bigger w/c's, possibly upping frequency. Marina A Break From Skimming <Ryan's turn> Hey Crew, quick question from a daily reader but seldom poster.. <Hi! Glad you finally spoke up ;) Ryan Bowen with you today.> I recently upgraded my 30G reef tank to 55G AGA with over-flow. So everything has been moved over from the 30G over the past three weeks to the 55G and the only new addition was another 20lb bag of Carib-sea sand which was placed under the live sand from the 30G (tank was 6 months old, became too small quicker than expected). <They do that!> I had been using a CPR back-pack on the 30 Gallon with decent but not overwhelming results - and after reading many posts I have decided to go with a small "whipp'n" Euro-reef skimmer in the next few weeks ahead. <Nice choice> In the meantime the only place the CPR will fit on the 55G is right on front and I can't stand it there and have not set it up. <Throw it in the sump?>. So the question - how long can I safely run my new tank with just the overflow into wet/dry and powerheads before I see poor results?? The tank contains 40 lbs of live rock (half Marshal Island/ the other half Fiji) sails, hermits, 1 cleaner shrimp, 1 flame back angel, 2 Percula clowns, 1 six-line wrasse, neon goby and an algae blenny.. salt 33ppm, 0 - 0 - 0 am/na/ni, PH 8.3, alk 10 and calcium 350(rising slowly toward 400 with sea-chem reef advantage calcium).. Through the change-over proccess(1st week sand/salt water, 2nd weeks live rock/soft corals and cleaners, just this past weekend fish) I've been replacing 5 gallons every Sunday with Tropic Marin and RO/DI water. <You're going to see a decline in overall cleanliness almost instantly. I'd run it on the front rather than go skimmerless- But if you're fixed on doing this, I would recommend that you double your current water change regime, and use activated carbon in the meanwhile.> Everything looks healthy, mushrooms are much larger and polyps have begun to spread in these past few weeks.. No other corals just a handful various softies. <They should be fine without the skimmer. It's the fish load I'm worried about. It's possible that your tank will cycle again, so be on the lookout for ammonia/nitrite spikes. The CPR is a great back-up skimmer....or does this give you a reason to set up a nano at the office? ;) Good luck, Ryan> Thanks! Brad -A break from skimming...- <Kev's go> Hey Crew, quick question from a daily reader but seldom poster. I recently upgraded my 30G reef tank to 55G AGA with over-flow.. So everything has been moved over from the 30G over the past three weeks to the 55G and the only new addition was another 20lb bag of Carib-sea sand which was placed under the live sand from the 30G (tank was 6 months old, became too small quicker than expected). <As they all do!> I had been using a CPR back-pack on the 30 Gallon with decent but not overwhelming results - and after reading many posts I have decided to go with a small "whipp'n" Euro-reef skimmer in the next few weeks ahead. <Excellent!> In the meantime the only place the CPR will fit on the 55G is right on front and I can't stand it there and have not set it up.. <Aw, tough it out for a few weeks, that is unless you like looking at algae and Cyanobacteria better!> So the question - how long can I safely run my new tank with just the overflow into wet/dry and powerheads before I see poor results?? The tank contains 40 lbs of live rock (half Marshal Island/ the other half Fiji) sails, hermits, 1 cleaner shrimp, 1 flame back angel, 2 Percula clowns, 1 six-line wrasse, neon goby and an algae blenny.. salt 33ppm, 0 - 0 - 0 am/na/ni, PH 8.3, alk 10 and calcium 350(rising slowly toward 400 with sea-chem reef advantage calcium).. Through the change-over proccess(1st week sand/salt water, 2nd weeks live rock/soft corals and cleaners, just this past weekend fish) I've been replacing 5 gallons every Sunday with Tropic Marin and RO/DI water. <First off, I'd suggest that you top off more frequently, as that's near a gallon a day of evaporation. I'd top off daily, instead of one big salinity fluctuating tidal wave on Sunday. As for the skimming, I would just stick out the next couple weeks w/ the skimmer on the front, or modified to work in the sump. Otherwise (or even in addition to), you can perform frequent partial water changes (say 10g every week) to keep the organic load from building up. Keep in mind that for this 'fuge-less system, the best method of nutrient removal you have is protein skimming. I don't believe it's worth the risk of an algae problem to keep the skimmer off for temporary aesthetic purposes.> Everything looks healthy, mushrooms are much larger and polyps have begun to spread in these past few weeks.. No other corals just a handful various softies. <Good luck with the new tank! -Kevin> Thanks! Brad, Brookline, MA To Skim Or Not To Skim? Crew, <Scott F. with you today!> I have a 1 month old 125g tank w/100# of LR. I enjoy the hell out of just seeing what is living within. Is there anything I can feed the creatures or to encourage the growth of creatures within the LR? <Well, there is usually a lot of natural "food" (planktonic and otherwise) being produced by the animals and plants residing in and on the rock itself. However, you could "feed" small quantities of fine frozen foods, such as "Cyclop-Eeze", to help. Or, you can simply let nature do some of the work for you> If I have powerheads that break the surface film, what do I gain from a skimmer? Thanks, Craig <Well, Craig, a protein skimmer does more than just remove surface-active compounds from the water. It serves to remove many dissolved organic compounds before they have the chance to accumulate and degrade your system's water quality. A skimmer is a real necessity for any marine system, in my opinion! You can read a lot about skimmer operation, selection, and maintenance on the WWM site, or in Anthony Calfo's "Book of Coral Propagation". Put a protein skimmer on your shopping list! Regards, Scott F> More Light? More Skimming! I have just recently got a 15 gallon tank started two weeks ago, this is what I have setup: 24" 55 Watt CP 24 lbs. Jakarta LR Glass top canopy Zoo-med PS-30 powerhead (190Lph rated) 2" Aragamax sandbed 13 hermit crabs 1 Emerald crab 1 pink something starfish 2 true Clownfishes Anyway, my problem with the tank is lighting, because the light is heating up my tank, so I had to buy legs for it, and after that it cured the problem, but now I feel like there's not enough light in there, never really was satisfied with the light, so I am planning to return the light and get a new one, these are the two that I am looking at, either a double tube 1-65Watt True Actinic 03 Blue and 1-65Watt 10,000K CFs, or same fixture 2-36Watts, both by Coralife. Is there such a thing as too much light? <Well, some of my SPS-geek friends would say a resounding "No!", but it is certainly possible to over-light some organisms> Would I be better off going for 72 Watts total? <I'd get the 65 watters, myself- or even 96 watters, if your system can accommodate 'em> I am planning to add quite a few corals in there later too, and if any room, anemones but not a must. <Best to keep anemones in a dedicated system designed for their specific needs> Coralline algae is starting to appear, but not too quick. Please let me know about your thoughts... :) <I'd go for the higher lighting, myself, especially if corals are in your future. Better to have too much light (and you probably will not) and dim it then to not have enough> Other than that, I am pretty unsure about the need for a protein skimmer? Does it prolong water changes only, or does it improve the general appearance of the water (weekly water changes now), coloration, and water quality? <Well, water changes should be a regular part of your maintenance routine, regardless of whether or not you have a skimmer. Skimmers are your "first line of defense" against declining water quality. They help remove organics from the water before they have a chance to accumulate and degrade the water conditions. I think that a skimmer is an essentially part of any marine system!> (ammonia 0, nitrate 5ppm, nitrite 0, pH 8.3 now) Thanks for your time and attention... Cheers!! Jagryes <My pleasure! Regards, Scott F> Time for a skimmer? 3/2/04 Good evening, gents. I have enjoyed the FAQs, but I need some particular advice.<Hi there Tony. Adam at your service!> My tank is a 180 gal with about 100 lb live rock, under sand plenum, one return through a 9x9x12 inch canister filled with bioballs which drains into a 10 gal sump where the return pump is located; one return into a 25 gal algae scrubber (mostly Halimeda species with full spectrum light applied at night) which drains into the return pump sump.<Scrubber or Refugium? Generally "Scrubber" implies turf algaes growing in a film of water that would not be deep enough to support Halimeda.> The reef system does well with gorgonians, mushrooms (now proliferating), a growing leather coral, bubble and cabbage corals, a tridacnid clam - but not xenia, Acropora or any other hard corals, which have all died out. There are about 30 fish in the system (tangs, damsels, dwarf lion and saddleback trigger, snowflake eel, fox fish, Hawaiian dominos, wrasse, others). <This is quite a bit of fish bioload, and may be hard to manage if you are trying to keep a wider variety of corals. I am sure you are quite aware of the predator/prey relationships that you have going on! You will definitely have to give up the predators if you ever wish to keep ornamental shrimp or any small reef fishes.> Halides are lit for ten hours and actinics for 12 hours. Water changes of 15 gallons only every 4 to 6 months, but B-Ionic's regularly used. Chemistries (Red Sea kit) are: pH 8.2-8.4, NO2 0.05 to 0.1, NO3 10 to 12, NH4 0.0, alkalinity 'high', Ca 400+, specific gravity 1.024-1.026 at temps of 78+2. <All sounds acceptable, but especially considering your bio-load, I would step up water changes significantly.> My question: I have been studying whether to add a skimmer (my preference is an AquaC EV240) and a calcium reactor (not sure which one yet). Given that I am pushing the reef concept pretty hard, can I expect a benefit worth the $1000 bucks or so the conversion will take? <In my opinion, yes. With the high cost of B-Ionic, a calcium reactor will pay for itself in a year or two. The skimmer will just make life easier and improve the survival of your animals. BTW, the Aqua-C is an outstanding choice!> Do I take out the bioball trickle filter if a skimmer is used? <I would recommend removing them when you get a skimmer. If it weren't for your high bioload, I would recommend it regardless. Be sure to remove 1/4 at a time a week or two apart so that the other biological filtration can catch up.> Can the Halimeda in the algae scrubber be converted into a refugium, and if so, with what water source to provide the plants with nutrients? Where should refugium water return into a system running a skimmer? Thanks for your reply. Tony <As I said above, if you are growing Halimeda, most folks would consider this a refugium as is. I would replace the Halimeda with Chaetomorpha since the Halimeda consumes large amounts of calcium. As for specific plumbing issues, it is hard to say without seeing your system. In most cases it is fine to plumb it how ever is convenient. Relative locations of pumps and skimmers will have little impact on the benefits of the refugium. Best Regards. Adam> Is a protein skimmer necessary on a live rock and saltwater fish tank <A skimmer is not necessary, however, it is highly recommended in removing organic waste. Generally speaking, a tank which doesn't contain a protein skimmer is going to need many more water changes preformed than an aquarium which contains a skimmer. Overall, I would recommend a protein skimmer for any Saltwater aquarium. Take Care, Graham> Thanks To skim or not to skim Thanks for providing such a wealth of information on you web-site. I have a 10 gallon tank that I recently converted over from freshwater to saltwater. I have a Aquaclear 150 with sponge, carbon, polywool and ceramic rings. Also, 10#s of live rock, coral substrate with a medium powerhead. For fish, I have 1 clown and 2 damsels. I also have 5 hermit crabs. The tank is only 3 weeks old and I am getting a little green hair type algae, but not overcome by it by any means. Mostly on one of the rocks. Very little on glass. I change 10 % of the water every week.<ok, if your aquarium has only been setup for 3 weeks...It may not be cycled. You could have excess nutrients in the water which is causing your algae or you could have high levels of phosphates in your tap water or other source of water that you may be using> My question is, do I need a protein skimmer on a tank this small?<I wouldn't, it would be too much of a hassle. I would just do small weekly water changes... probably 1 gallon a week> If so, what is a cheap model that will work for me? Hang on back model preferred.<If you want a skimmer, which would help but may not be worth your while for such a small aquarium. look at www.marinedepot.com> I also plan on changing my 33 gal over too in the not-so near future and with that will be FOWLR tank. I have a XP-2 canister filter on it. What would be a reasonable priced hang-on skimmer for this tank?<go to www.marinedepot.com or search google. If you to find a real nice skimmer for cheap look at some chat forums such as www.reefs.org or our own here at wetwebmedia, Good luck, IanB> Skimmer Questions - 9/25/03 Crew: Thanks again for the great information. <You're welcome> So, for laypersons (i.e.: dummies) like myself, can you help me sum up? Two almost identical tanks, the only difference is one has skimmer, one does not. What I take from the previous response is that the water quality will be lower in the tank without skimmer, right? <Yes> If so, that being said, I would need to do more frequent water changes on the skimmer-less tank? <That is what I do with my tank without a skimmer. I still have algae issues at times. My tank with a skimmer has minimal algae issues and seems to go a little longer between changes.> Would that be the only difference on the husbandry side of it? <If you could afford one, I would do the skimmer Do you have Anthony's book? Book of Coral Propagation Volume 1? Goes into a little more detail on this subject exactly. I will try to summarize for you later as I have some time. Expect an email soon -Paul> Thanks, Rich Removing Skimmer? I am confused to be quite honest, however I know you guys have quick and accurate resolution my question: I have had my reef aquarium set up for about 3 years now and I am starting to place corals in it (started to get aggressive with the corals) my equipment includes a 75 gallon reef ready aquarium with 2 175 watt metal halides and 2 96watt power compacts, and a reef devil ETS down draft skimmer. To my sump I have added various kinds of green reef algae, my question is do I still need to run my skimmer or is it no longer a necessity? From ya boy ***Chris*** <I would keep the skimmer running, I am willing to bet that it still pulls a good amount of skimmate. Best Regards, Gage> Point-Counterpoint... Thanks for your time on this. <Our pleasure- we love this stuff! Scott F. here today> I have been doing a lot of research on marine aquariums (books and internet searches) and what I am finding is that there are a number of diametrically opposed views about the aquarium. <Different views? On marine aquarium keeping? Really? LOL> I have read enough articles on WetWebMedia to know what you believe and I would like your opinions on some of these differing thoughts. <Sure- I'd be happy to!> 1) It is a universally accepted principle that aggressive protein skimming is a must (1 cup a day) for nutrient and allelopathy export. In addition, to successfully grow corals, micro-organisms such as zooplankton, phytoplankton, etc., (whether grown in a refugium, a reactor and/or green water additives) is also a must. However, protein skimming removes these micro-organisms from the system and there some thought that protein skimming is as harmful as helpful. The no-protein skimmer belief rests upon refugium/Caulerpa/seagrass and/or clams as a more natural mechanism. Plus, there are less impellors killing the organisms (including powerheads). <Well, I am of the opinion that a well-tuned protein skimmer is absolutely essential for long term success in closed marine systems. I have heard from a number of people who yanked their skimmers-some have been successful for a while- many have gone back to skimmers. I like to think of the long-term with reef tank maintenance. Skimmers remove many noxious compounds and dissolved organics before they have a chance to degrade water quality. I have yet to see a very successful reef system that has been maintained for years without skimming. I do not consider one or two years a success...The bottom line on skimmer use, in my opinion, is that if you are going to omit skimming, then you need to compensate somewhere- either with a much lower bioload, very aggressive water change schedule, alternative "filtration" techniques (like Steve Tyree's Sponge/Sea Squirt Cryptic Zone concept, etc.). It is a trade off, and one that I do not feel is worth it. As far as the impellers in pumps destroying valuable plankton is concerned- I have heard a lot of thoughts on this, and, quite frankly, I feel that the threat-although legitimate, is highly overstated. Most reef systems simply don't grow and support large enough populations of plankton for this to be a legitimate concern, IMO. Even with productive refugia and other supplemental systems, I just don't think that the impact is there> 2) To remove allelopathic compounds from the system, weekly carbon changes are suggested. However carbon also leaches vital trace elements out of the system. Once again, harmful and helpful. <I am a firm believer in the continuous use of small amounts (like 2-4 ounces per 100 gallons of tank capacity) of high quality activated carbon. Good grades of carbon, such as those offered by Seachem (my personal favorite), Two Little Fishies, or ESV do not leach phosphates into the system. Yes, carbon can remove small quantities of trace elements from the system. However, if you are following one of my other favorite practices in marine husbandry, frequent small water changes- you will be replacing trace elements on a regular basis. In fact, you will probably not experience a deficiency in trace elements if you practice these water changes> 3) Another universally accepted principle is weekly water changes. When you have a 55 gallon tank, a 10% water swap is no big deal. When you have a 125 with a 30 gallon refugium and 10 gallon sump, it is a much greater effort, requiring a large garbage can sitting in the living room overnight to allow the salt to fully aerate and mix before doing the swap. Plus the swap tends to be somewhat stressful on the fish. I am planning on buying a 300 gallon at the end of the year and turning the 125 into a large DSB/Live Rock sump. A 10% water swap on 425 gallons will be a huge effort! <As a fanatic about regular small water changes, I can tell you that the process is simply not that difficult. One of my systems has about 200 gallons total capacity. I change 5% of the water twice a week. This amounts to 2 10 gallon water changes, which I perform on Wednesday morning before work, and on Sunday mornings (unless the surf is good- in which case it's usually Sunday afternoon!). I will generally mix up the saltwater in a Rubbermaid container about 24-48 hours before, and then perform the change. I also perform minor maintenance tasks, such as a little extra algae scraping (if needed), coral pruning, etc. on Wednesday. This will take about 20-30 minutes to perform. On Sunday, I take a little more leisurely pace, and will clean the skimmer, replace carbon or Polyfilters if needed, change micron socks, or any other little things that have to be done. Maybe it takes about 45 minutes to an hour of pleasant labor. I have always done the additions of new water "manually", by pouring it into the tank from a pitcher. If I really wanted to do it quicker, I'd hook up a Maxijet 1200 powerhead to some 5/8 ID tubing, and "pump in" the replacement saltwater...it's a lot quicker. Frequent small water changes need not be a chore. Rather, look at them as an opportunity to regularly assess the situation in your tank. Anyone who maintains their own garden can relate to the labor involved. It is part of the "price of admission", IMO, and is simply not that difficult. And, when you see the difference in your animals, you'll realize that it's all worth it!> Lastly, I have and read about many a aquarist who has been very successful for years with minimal swaps, minimal effort by maintaining proper trace elements/calcium/alkalinity. <I have to quote Anthony on this: "Even a blind squirrel finds a nut sometimes!". It's just not something that you'd want to do. We are talking about living creatures here- which require us to provide the highest level of care. Closed systems are just that- closed, and unlike the ocean, do not afford the animals a constant influx of clean water. To those hobbyists who think that water changes are not required, I respond, "You wouldn't let your dog live in the same room for 5 years without cleaning out the waste, would you? Don't do it with your fish!"> 4) Bio-wheels and Bio-balls are sold in virtually all LFS and internet dealers. They add a tremendous amount of stability to the system but also contribute nitrates because there is no anaerobic area for denitrification. Once again, stability vs. water quality, harmful and helpful. <These media are, in essence- "victims of their own success": They are so good at removing nitrites and ammonia, that they cannot provide a bacterial population to keep up with accumulating nitrate. Yep- it is a tradeoff. Frankly- I like to keep things simple, and use a more natural approach: Let the live rock and sand do your filtering, along with use of macroalgae in refugia, and protein skimming, water changes, and regular use of carbon and/or PolyFilter media.> 5) Allelopathy is another subject, not discussed at LFS trying to make a sale. Some people claim that pictures of beautiful coral displays that are all over the internet will be very different a year from now because of allelopathy and others claim success for years in spite of pictures showing many corals side by side, touching each other. Another subject in dispute. I have purchased very aggressive corals (not knowing better at the time). I have multiple leathers, Ricordea mushrooms, 5" genitor, frogspawn, colt and bubble corals. Is this a toxic soup, a ticking time bomb, or as others claim, no big deal. <Well, I would not call it a ticking time bomb, but it is not an ideal situation. This is an aggregation of animals that are rarely, if ever found in close proximity to each other on natural reefs, so there will be a certain amount of allelopathy. However, these animals can be maintained together in a certain "stand off" with use of aggressive nutrient export mechanisms (the aforementioned skimming, water changes, and use of chemical filtration media). It's much more ideal to develop a stocking plan that utilizes animals that live together in nature. However, as we often state, this is a closed system that we're talking about. It can be done-and done with some possible success, but it is not ideal. I have seen many successful "garden" reef systems over the years, so I can't say that it's not possible to do this. just not recommended!> As I plan for a big expansion of my system, these are the thoughts that come to mind. Natural (refugium/Caulerpa/seagrass and/or clams) vs. mechanical (protein skimming). I currently have both. Is chemical filtration needed? <I believe that a "natural" approach, with a few technical props (skimming and chemical media) is the best approach for most systems> Are water swaps absolutely mandatory, which would dampen my enthusiasm for a larger tank. Would removing some of the aggressive corals reduce the allelopathy problems or would the bigger tank mitigate them? <Yes, removing some of the aggressive corals could help, as would reducing the proximity between corals. However, it is still important to change water. I would have to say that it's mandatory! Please understand that it just is not that daunting a task...Small amounts often is not that difficult!> Long email. Apologies. Thanks for the time. <My pleasure! These were some excellent, thought-provoking questions that have stimulated many a late-night fish nerd conversation at a MACNA conference! I hope that you will be in this year's MACNA in Louisville so that we can discuss these things in more detail! Good luck! Regards, Scott F> - Adding a Skimmer - Thanks for the quick response to the stocking question. <My pleasure.> JasonC asked me, "Is there a chance I would re-think the skimmer-less thing?". I'm skimmer-less and have been with this tank since it started, my other tanks have all had skimmers. It's an experiment out of curiosity as to what different life I could expect, not a moral imperative by any stretch. <Ahh... in that case, continue to experiment.> If I were to start skimming this tank what effect could I expect on the sponge and micro fauna populations? <I wouldn't expect any affect - these should be unaffected by the skimmer.> Will I need to concern myself with greater light penetration? <Is your water dingy now? Do you run carbon or anything like that?> Thanks for the help. Bill Roh <Cheers, J -- > - Re: Running Without a Skimmer - It's really great how you folks are ready to spend time with people. Makes me all the happier to buy your books - can't wait for the new invert book btw! Is my water dingy now? Nope, just the opposite. I seldom notice any discoloration in water when I do changes. The smell is nice too - it smells clean. I do notice a faint green tint to the water during the dawn and dusk cycles when only the actinics are on. I always hope that it is an active plankton population, probably wishful thinking. I do run carbon and occasionally Phosguard. Phosphates have proven to be my demon and red Cyano as a result. I looked at the AquaC Urchin Pro, and I think I can get it into the fast water refuge right where overflow from the tank enters the rubble in the refuge. If this would have a dramatic effect on phosphates, it would be worth the investment. <Not sure the affect would be 'dramatic'.> Thanks again, Bill Roh <Cheers, J -- > UV vs. Skimmer Gage: <Hello Lane> A UV Sterilizer wouldn't be worth my time? <Not compared to a good skimmer, both would be nice, but if it were me I would save the money from the sterilizer and put it towards a better skimmer. The better you skimmer is, the better your water quality will be, and the less things (algae, bacteria, parasites) you will need to zap with a UV sterilizer. -Best Regards, Gage> Skimmer search - 3/25/03 Hello Bob Thanks very much for your insight into setting up marine aquariums. <our pleasure> I currently have a fresh water aquarium and would like proceed to next stage of marine setup. <very well. You are in for a wonderful world of beauty and fascination> I was bit surprised that in your article you did not mention anything about protein skimmers for marine setup. <Plenty mentioned on our site, see here please: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/skimbestof.htm and follow the links at the top of the page after done researching the various questions and answers. This is one of the most talked about issues on our page. Should be plenty of information to assist you in your quest for knowledge. > I have been getting all types of conflicting point of views re: skimmer. I was hoping that you can shed bit more light on this subject. <Take a look through the many FAQs and articles regarding skimmers on our site. Thank you for your question> Thanks very much in advance. Regards <thank you. Pablo> Mohammad Hassan Queensland University of Technology To Skim Or Not To Skim? Hello WWM Crew! <Hi there! Scott F. at the keyboard today!> Thanks for all of your advise on the website, truly a great tool for me. <And for all of us! Soo much to learn!> I'm currently setting up a 75 FOWLR system. Before I really started reading about how to setup a "good" system I was sold some equipment. <Uh-Ohh- I know where this is headed...> Then I started reading how to setup it up... I know wrong order but I've learned from that mistake. <Hey- if you learned- than it's all worthwhile!> The LFS sold me a Wet/Dry system and a 9 Watt UV also told me I wouldn't need a skimmer. After reading various articles on your site and others it seems the UV shouldn't be hookup during the cycle, and most said not at all. Currently I'm about 3 weeks into the cycle and everything is going fine (problem with said LFS and purchasing livestock already, but that's another story). What I'm wondering now is should I put a skimmer on now? or wait till it has fully cycled? <Well, I suppose you could hold on the UV for a while...but not needing a skimmer? Sheesh! Bad advice, IMO! A good protein skimmer is the single most important piece of equipment that you can add to a system, as far as I'm concerned. A skimmer offers soo many benefits, including efficient nutrient export, oxygenation, higher Redox potential, etc. It's really a necessity, IMO...> If you do say go on the skimmer here are the ones I was looking at. Euro-Reef ES-5, AquaC Urchin Pro, or one in the Tunze line. Trying to stay under $250w/pump <You won't go wrong with any of the skimmers that you mentioned...all of 'em are great, IMO!> Thanks again, Dave <You're doing fine, Dave! Keep learning and growing in the hobby! Regards, Scott F> Don't Clam Up About Protein Skimming! Greetings! <Hi there! Scott F. with you today!> Two questions this morning. <Only two?....You can have a few extras, if you want!> Given Poly Filter's affinity for dissolved organics, would it possible or feasible to use PolyFilter alone in an Eheim canister filter (with surface extractor) without a skimmer on the system? <Well, PolyFilter will remove noticeable quantities of dissolved organics, such as nitrate, ammonia, phosphates, etc., but a protein skimmer really excels at removing organic material BEFORE it has a chance to break down and degrade water quality. Skimmers also have the added benefit of increasing both Redox potential and oxygen levels in the water. Both PolyFilter (a product that I just love) and protein skimmers have their place in aquarium husbandry, and should be utilized in virtually every marine system, IMO> I have a beautiful, thriving Tridacna maxima. I understand they tolerate/appreciate a certain level of nitrates. If I remove the bio-media in the "wet-dry" (I have 120 lbs. of live rock in a 45 high tank) will the clam still get "enough" nitrates? Thanks! Tom <Well, Tom, that's a good question. Yes, clams appear to appreciate a certain amount of nitrate in the water for nutrition (in fact, some hard-core clam enthusiasts actually supplement sodium nitrate in the water for their clams in systems that have otherwise nutrient poor water. They are also potential feeders on phytoplankton, as well. All in all, I think a balanced, well-maintained aquarium which utilizes both chemical filtration media and skimming can successfully grow clams, as long as the water is not totally devoid of any organics (i.e.: keep some fish in those clam tanks, and do feed them! That should suffice for the rest of us "non-hardcore" clam people!. Hope this helps! Regards, Scott F> Yellow Tang with Red top fin Bob, Thanks. I didn't realize that the skimmer would be that critical. I had one in my last tank and it worked great. Guess I just didn't think it was an absolute. <You will soon see the difference> Do you think that's the main thing that's causing the sot on the Tang? <Yes. Amongst all the factors you mention, probable causes, it stands out as number one> I read through the recommended html page. I think I have all the other items covered in large degree. Since I don't have anything but fish in the tank, I think the increased lighting can wait until I have the $$. <Yes, much less important than improved overall water quality. Get, use the skimmer first. Bob Fenner> Thanks, Steve HJ Skimmer stats Hey Bob, I have a quick question for you regarding protein skimmers. There has been much debate regarding whether people are moving away from the use of protein skimmers and maybe moving to the use of poly fibers as filters. <Mmm, in my estimation...> The statistics I found on how many people use skimmers were around an estimated 70% of all hobbyists (which seemed to be a bad stat) Do you concur with this figure? What percentage of hobbyist would you say use skimmers? <Gosh... don't have much confidence in my guess here... Seventy seems reasonable... with some eschewing their use in place of mud, refugium type filtration instead, and the majority of the difference just not using them. I would not be surprised if the numbers were 10% less, 15% more... Bob Fenner> Thanks Bob Ken Protein skimmer Bob, I was wondering if a protein skimmer is needed for fish only tank with no live rock. Tank has some messy eaters like puffer and volitans lion. in a 125G. <Very useful... I would certainly use one> Also could you point me in a direction to find pics of dogface puffer. There is a yellow dogface I have seen once and wanted to know a little about. Thanks again. <Please peruse our Puffer materials posted on WetWebMedia. Perhaps starting here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/tetraodontpuffers.htm and the linked files (in blue) there. Bob Fenner> Skimmer vs. Nutrients Hello, I have a lightly-loaded 75 gallon tank that I have been slowly setting up this summer. My LFS classifies skimmers are "optional", but you are strong proponents of them. <Your LFS has probably never used a high quality skimmer extracting dark, thick, foul smelling skimmate. Once you have seen the disgusting stuff that can be removed from your aquarium by a good skimmer, you will never say skimmers are optional.> I am wondering if a skimmer will pull out nutrients that would otherwise fuel the growth of macro algaes? <Yes> I have Halimeda and Sargassum sp. growing out on my live rock, and I don't want to stall their growth. <If you have these and corals, definitely get the skimmer my friend, but if you desire to have a marine plant tank, you could get away without the skimmer or a less effective model.> Also, would a skimmer remove/reduce the surface film, or would I need a surface extractor (e.g.. Eheim) as well? <There are skimmers with surface extractors built as hang on the back models.> Thanks in advance for your response. John <You are welcome. -Steven Pro> Successful Skimming Thanks, Anthony. I hadn't thought of skimmate removal as a nutrient issue, so have been removing it only once or twice a week (maybe 4 ounces at a time.) I will jump to a daily clean-out. Thanks for the tip. Ev Newton <Ev... quite welcome. It is an easily overlooked dimension of the nutrient dynamic in aquaria. But given thought, when you look at how foul the skimmate is on weekly collections and then succeed in collected similar product daily... you realize that to not remove it daily means that it accumulates and concentrates. Although a bit slow to effect a cure, well run skimmers are perhaps the best and easiest way to correct nuisance algae growths in marine aquaria. Best regards, Anthony> The Skimmer Controversy Bob, I've read all of your information about Protein Skimmers and it seems that it is a very good thing to have, which is something I bought for my 55 gallon that I'm setting up. <For almost all marine set-ups, at least for "run in periods" this is a very useful tool> However I sat down with my brother-in-law and his wife this New Year's day and started discussing salt water aquariums with them. Both of them are Marine Biologists (my brother-in-law teaches high school and college and his wife works for the Navy's Marine research team). I was surprised to find that both of them were very much "anti-skimmer". They told me that research is showing that the protein skimmer now causes more harm to the "good bacteria" than it does good in removing the bad bacteria. Have you heard anything about this? <Yes... a very old discussion... One that has been "going on" for about thirty years... Valid arguments on both camps/positions sides...> I'm a bit confused and frustrated after I spent the money on a skimmer. He told me a good under gravel system along with live rock was much more beneficial and should handle the cycle well on its own. I probably would dismiss their opinions if I didn't know their overall credentials so well. Perhaps this is something we will hear about from the cutting edge in a few months that the way of thinking has once changed again? <Much to discuss (if you'd like)... For your sake, do read through what is written in the field re foam fractionator/protein skimmer use... I would "toss your general question out": "to skim or no" to various BB's, chatforums (Ours: http://talk.wetwebfotos.com/)... you will find that most folks opinions, experiences mirror mine (to use a skimmer, eschew the use of undergravel)... Some systems (reefs with appreciable cryptic fauna, mud filtration...) approach the "balance point" of where skimming is of no real use to beginning to be not of use to detrimental... yours won't at this juncture. Set the whole system up, run the skimmer and see what it collects... try running the system for a while w/o the skimmer and see the loss of water quality, its effects on your livestock... You will know. Bob Fenner, who used to teach H.S. science, and marine biology classes at the University (extension) and community college levels... but bases his opinions on cursory academic and not-so cursory (though at times cursed!) first hand experiences. Be chatting> Daryl Mitchell Question re air stripping=protein skimming... Hello Robert, I have many questions: Is air stripping with protein skimmer, the same as removal of organic pollutants or not? How to work it? Same with contact oxygen? Best regards, July <Hmm... If I understand your statement/question, yes to air stripping (oxygen) being equivalent to how most protein skimmers work... Skimmers are just the "winning technology/application" for this process as they have proven the least expensive, easiest, least disaster-proof way of mixing oxygen to phobically bond with organics (among other things, and not all undesirable) for ready removal (in a contact chamber, collection cup) on the basis of their resultant low density, foaming... I have seen other approaches that may be something you're referring to otherwise... for very large systems, some using ozone (triatomic oxygen), water/waste treatment, industrial applications... Could you give me/us a better idea of what you're looking for, to do? Bob Fenner> Re: question re air stripping=protein skimming... Hello Mr. Fenner, Thanks you for answers to my questions and I think air stripping maybe most expensive to operate but air stripping only removes ammonia, ions organic in there. Ammonia exchanges gas in the air and protein skimmer ammonia exchange gas or surfactant and particulate else, <Mostly agreed here, and one of the few downsides of protein skimming... is the removal or desirable organic molecules, minerals...> How does reaction oxidize, if any reaction not in there, mean protein skimmer is water treatment physically. Thanks for your attention, July <You're welcome my friend. In most things there are compromises... some good, bad in using protein skimmers, mostly good... not expensive... and the useful materials removed easily re-supplied through feeding, calcium reactors, use of live rock, soluble substrates... Bob Fenner> Protein Skimmers removing too much? Hey Bob I was wondering if you could answer one question for me. What is the down side of a protein skimmer? <Mmm, more stuff to fool with, some chance of flooding, expense... A very small removal of desirable materials along with a bunch of gunk you're better off without> My biggest worry is it removing the good stuff along with the bad. I have a 110 gal reef tank and I often wonder if I am wasting the Kent Micrometry, I feel the protein skimmer works too well. If you could give any info on this that would be nice Thanks, Steve SLC, UT <You are correct on the latter to a degree... could cycle the skimmer off/on for periods... administer the Micrometry near the beginning of the off portions. Bob Fenner> James Stephen Grammer Zero nitrates w/ refugium vs. giant clam Hello Mr. Fenner- I have read all the refugium notes/FAQs and I'm sold on one. For my future 92 corner tank I will use a 20 gal hex for the sump and one for the refugium (have an odd-shaped stand). From my limited (but growing---thanks!) knowledge, I understand that giant clams actually like some nitrates. <This is so... to a degree.> I plan to start as basically a FO system, but I want to set it up as properly as possible w/ long term reef results in mind. So, what is your "official" opinion on clam + skimmer + Miracle Mud refugium? Thank You! Erik Nelson <Of all timely notes... picked up Leng Sy yesterday on the way to going to Hollywood, giving a pitch to the combined L.A. and Orange County marine clubs... and Leng and I went over and over re skimmers, his mud product... We kind of agree that "skimming has its place" and in general, after some time, balancing (a few months typically), a not-too efficient skimmer can/should be cycled on/off (day intervals) to allow production of planktonic organisms, in the face of a dearth of removable materials... in most systems. Bob Fenner> Skimmers in the Grand Scheme of Marine Filtration BOB, Thanks in advance for what you have done for me in my hobby. I have written you once before about the use of gelatins and your book a few months back while on vacation. Now that I have memorized most of your book and downloaded most all of the FAQ's <Watch out, there are more most every day> I have a variety of questions. The first of which will be the following. I have noticed that you will not set up a marine system with out the use of a protein skimmer. <In most cases skimmers are a real asset> I have heeded you council and am skimming away. However your book doesn't make a big of deal about the use of ozone but I noticed in one of your FAQ's that you do not set up a system with out the use of one. <Hmm, not so... at least I don't mean to be such a strong advocate... These tools are very secondary in importance to a good skimmer, and let's say a desiccator to dry the air for the ozonizer in turn would be tertiary, or third, less further of importance, utility... but still useful... We have several tanks here... none currently with Ozone in use but do install these devices on very large systems, with variable bioloads where they are of tremendous help in maintaining high water quality, reducing microbial populations and their effects...> (or not as hard a "sell" as the fractionator in the book why not as strong of an opinion). Could you please tell me what you think of a system that has a 200 gal wet dry (Edsel) a 125-gallon tank. (Could this be a problem since the wet dry is bigger than the tank is supposed to match. I thought that bigger was better) <The latter> 100lbs on crushed coral on the bottom for and a Rio 3100 on the tank just moving the water around a little better. The tank was fully matured in July when I slowly started to add fish at about 2 every other week. The tank is a fish only tank with about 40lbs of live rock. I know that I need more. I also have a XL DA filter. (has your opinion of these changed any at all? <No> (since attending more shows and research as stated in your FAQ's on DA filtration) I have about 15 small fish (damsels, Anthias, clowns, angels (Koran and lemon peel) 2 fire fish, a well as a small clean up crew( a few snails and red hermit crabs). I am using some POWER glow lights to help live rock. My REAL question is this: In the last week my nitrites have risen (the water is ever so slightly tinted on the test) and I have lost my first group of fishes (fairy wrasse, long nose butter fly, royal Gramma and a flame hawk) all over a 36 hour period. <What? Not good... did you add any activated carbon? I would, and quick> I was really hurt. I rushed to my LFS with a sample of water in hand and they can not find anything at all. They did mention that my nitrites were slightly off but did not think that it was killing my friends. I bought a bottle of cycle and it seems as if has brought my levels of nitrite down. Is this the proper solution and is the reason I am having this problem because of the wet dry being too efficient in the nitrogen cycle? <Something is definitely awry, but what? Offhand I'd guess either something has triggered a recycling event... a dead organism of size, overfeeding, some sort of pollution killed off your nitrifiers... and do the standard defense measure of a water change (with pre-made water, no additives... and add a couple of "units" of activated carbon> I change the water faithfully every 2 weeks at about 10% or 15% rate. I was really really heart broken that I had let down the fish. In your book you don't seem to impressed with the use of "cycle" fluids but what about after water changes in young systems such as mine? <You shouldn't need to use such products in a going system...> Case 2: After devouring your book I took it on a trip with a friend and we took turns reading it even more! He is now setting up a 90 gallon bow front tank. But with fresh water. He was thinking of using a canister filter or a wet dry. I suggested the Edsel. He is not sold one way or the other but would the wet dry be of any harm in a fresh water system? <None more than marine> I told him that there is no way you would suggest not using a protein skimmer. Protein and junk is going to get "foamed out" in marine or fresh Right? <Not the case... freshwater systems are tricky to skim... can be done, but better to lessen metabolite build-up concentrations with freshwater systems (which are more "accustomed" to these events than marine... due to the inconstancy of these environments through geological time... with water changes, the use of some live plants, under-crowding, careful feeding...> So my question for him is this: Should he be as concerned about a protein skimmer with a fresh water system and what about a wet dry vs. a canister? We both want to start a refugium tank soon. <Nah to using a skimmer, unless you want to experiment, design/engineer one... and either the wet-dry or canister will do... Do read over the plant sections of our site... and get me to finish and place the parts that may help to unfold your possibilities here> You're the man! We take your book as the bible and your words as the way, the truth and the unbiased light, We would love to meet you one day if we could have the privilege while traveling through SD CA, until that day, <Hmm, would definitely not go quite this far. But be it known, "We are the pet-fish men! Yeah!!! Sean Warren <Be chatting my young acolyte, Bob Fenner> Novice Question - Skimmers Hi, I've been reading your site for awhile, skimming all your FAQs. I'm still somewhat at a loss at what to do though. I am a complete beginner to any type of aquariums. And I'm curious to whether or not I need a protein skimmer, and if so what to get. <IMO, skimmers are an absolute essential piece of equipment. There is a rather large list of skimmers I have used and my impressions in the skimmer FAQ files.> I'm running a 55 gallon tank, only a few damsels now, although the cycle seems to be about complete and will be adding some more fish soon. Will add live rock eventually, just on a money constraint right now. Running just an airstone, an emperor 500 filter with 2 BioWheels. And 2; 40 watt fluorescent lights, 50/50 actinic and daylight. And have CC as substrate. I plan to get an RO unit sometime this summer, since I believe that it is high in silicates. I have small returning problems of diatoms and Cyano, no major coverings though. Would you recommend a protein skimmer for this tank? <Yes> If so, what type? <One of the Hang-on models, since it sounds like you do not have a skimmer.> It seems like I'd be overdoing it with the $200 brands. What type of output would I be looking for? <You should get a full cup several times weekly.> I've seen a 40 dollar Berlin for sale at my LFS, but they aren't the most knowledgeable staff that I've ever been in contact with. <Sounds like the counter-current model. Kind of small, only mounts inside the tank (hard to get to fit with hood), and requires a large airpump to go with it (I like the Tetra Luft pumps a lot, out of production now, but Coralife seems to be selling them) costs another ~$70.> Would love an answer if you could, been having problems finding the answers to these. Sincerely, Craig Repoli <You are welcome. -Steven Pro> When to Install Skimmers... depends Bob, I read in one of your articles in Wet Web, regards to protein skimmer. You mentioned that you should be careful WHEN to use a skimmer. Making sure that your tank has fully cycled and matured, before running a skimmer. My question is this the same with a UV sterilizer? Thanks, Lee <To some extent yes... depending on why a person is using one... ideally as a "Standard Operating Procedure) would be best to have a system set up with all gear running for about a week... then place live rock, maybe sand, wait till all cures.... then turn on UV... then start placing livestock... Bob Fenner> Protein Skimmer Question Dear Bob, <Steven Pro in this evening.> How do you do? <Just fine, thank you.> I have question here. I bought a new protein skimmer (hang-on outside tank type) for my saltwater aquarium and planning to add some corals and anemones. Can the skimmer replace the original filter (under gravel) I have? <No, the UG acts as a biological filter. Protein skimmers are a form of chemical filtration. Liverock/livesand could take the place of your UG.> Can I just simply use the skimmer instead of the biological filter? <No, do look up the various marine setup articles and FAQ files for additional information.> Thank you. Sincerely, Charley Wang <You are welcome. -Steven Pro> Protein skimmer Bob, Is it worthwhile to purchase a protein skimmer? I have a 75 gal fish only saltwater tank. What are the advantages of having one? Which is better the ones that go in the sump or the ones that hang on the back ? Is there any brand you recommend ? Thanks < Protein skimmers are very worthwhile... there are very few types of marine systems that do not tremendously benefit from their use... Just look at the gunk one pulls out... you'll be a believer... Skimmers do a few things of note, principally removing a great deal of dissolved organic compounds... consequently limiting algae growth, color in your water, improving livestock health... The placement of a skimmer is not an important functional consideration, neither are terms like "venturi" or "countercurrent" as titles... or actualities... The basic evolution of skimmers shows four incremental stages... airstone powered, venturi-intake, downdraft, and the most advanced: needle wheel types that froth air and water together for a maximum in mixing and contact time. Bob Fenner > Protein skimmer I'm new to the hobby and just purchased your book and I'm enjoying it tremendously. I have a 46 gal. bow front tank with approx. 65 lbs. of liverock that I purchased through my LFS and arrived in a box, so I know it needs be cured. Should I be using my protein skimmer during this process? I purchased a SeaClone skimmer rated up to a 100 gal. tank. Should my skimmer run all the time or should it be on a timer. I heard that if a skimmer is too efficient it can be detrimental to the live rock, is this true? Thanks, Rob O. <Hey there. Yes to running your skimmer from the get-go (now). And no to worrying about the over-efficiency of your particular skimmer. No problems... Some "needle wheel" types (DAS, Euro Reef, G2) can be more deleterious than beneficial to run all the time in certain types of set-ups (let's say lots of SPS corals, balanced with lots of live rock, sand)... and would be better put on a timer... but not yours. Bob Fenner> Even More Protein Skimmer Advice Thanks for the reply! I don't have a protein skimmer. The pet store never said anything about one. I do have two bio-wheels running and a power head. Do I need a protein skimmer? And if I do, how much would one cost for a 29 gallon tank. I am on a tight budget. The aquarium, stand and supplies wiped me out...and the fish. Greg <Start saving... IMO, yes, you should have one... and it can be a relatively simple, inexpensive device... Even a feeble in tank, air-driven model will remove some glop that will amaze you... You won't want to pour it back in your tank I'll assure you. A protein skimmer is not absolutely necessary... but it will save you enormous headaches in lost livestock, water changes, poor water appearance...Bob Fenner> Protein Skimmer for FO? I am wondering if a protein skimmer is a necessity for a 75 gallon "fish only" tank? Two of the local aquarium shops say NO, not on a "fish only" tank, but the few books I have read about aquariums say Yes. I am just getting ready to set the tank up and just wondered if I needed such equipment. Thank you. I plan to buy everything from FFExpress. This looks to be a great place. Tim <IMO, yes to the need for a skimmer on all fish only systems... This filter tool is a simple, inexpensive means to vastly improve water quality... and hence livestock health and system appearance... let alone, a way to save much more money than the cost of the skimmer in water changes, lost fishes... Many problems with captive aquariums are directly linked with "water quality"... like algae proliferation and HLLE (hole in the head, lateral line disease). In addition with appropriate set-up and maintenance, these are easily thwarted with the use of an effective skimmer. Bob Fenner> SKIMMER QUESTION Bob, I have a 55 gallon tank with 60 lbs. of
live rock sitting on crush coral. Critter list as followed- small
anemones, featherduster, 2 camel & 1 cleaner shrimp, Arrowcrab,
several small hermits & snails, 1 pencil urchin, 1 yellow tang, 4
damsels, and 1 anemone fish. When I started this tank I was going F/O
but slowly added the rock. I'm using a undergravel filter, a
Skilter 250 and later added a fluidized-bed. First question- Are my
filter systems working against each other and the live rock? Second
question- My local dealer suggested that I upgrade to a more powerful
skimming unit. What do you think? The tank has being set up for a year
with no big problems and I want to keep it that way. Thank you,
Bill |
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