Serious Gourami problems     2/14/17
Hello,
<Hello Calvin,>
It seems my tank is in a bit of an emergency. The major TL;DR is that I need to know if my dwarf gourami has TB/Iridovirus/parasites.
<Oh dear. As I'm sure you know by now, Iridovirus isn't curable. On top of that, Dwarf Gouramis are prone to Mycobacteria infections, what is often called "Fish TB", and again, there's no cure here. Indeed, the symptoms of
the two diseases are very similar, and explain a lot of the dying Dwarf Gourami situations we see and hear about.>
All of the details are below, and I'll add my tank stats at the bottom (I don't have a way of testing for ammonia at the moment).
<Understood.>
*Background:* About two weeks ago I took a 75 gallon tank off the hands of a family who is moving from Chicago to Georgia. It is currently populated by: 1 Pleco (seems to be pardalis sp. specifically), 3 tiger barbs, 2 neon tetras, 1 sunset platy, 2 black tetras, 1 dwarf gourami, 1 pearl gourami, 1 blue(?) gourami, and 9 guppies (2 female). This is my second tank ever - my first was a goldfish I rescued from an empty apartment last Spring, who is doing just fine in his 20gal - so I am basically a total newbie.
<Well, welcome to the hobby the hard way! Seriously, that's quite a mix of fish. While water chemistry isn't a major issue with them (they should all do fine in around neutral, medium hardness water) there are some possible behavioural issues when social species are kept in too-small groups. Barbs and tetras are better in groups of six or more, and the female Guppies should really outnumber the males, ideally 2-to-1. But in any event, this isn't our immediate problem, but something to review in the longer term.
There is a brilliant aquarium club in Chicago, http://www.greenwateraquaristsociety.org
As well as a very well regarded cichlid society, http://www.gcca.net
I'd suggest getting in touch with either of these and asking for help in due course. Having an experienced hobbyist look over your tank, help you rehome fish, and/or introduce healthy specimens is a massive bonus. Fish shops are fine of course, but the quality of advice varies wildly. Looking over your photos for example, you're dealing with severe Whitespot or similar on the Neon; a Sunset Platy with a deformed spine (could be genetic, could be Mycobacteria, could be dietary... hard to say); and of course your Dwarf Gourami is wasting away, for one reason or another. I'd be tempted to medicate the tank as per Finrot or Columnaris; euthanise the Neons if they didn't start recovering; and observe the Platy (not much you can do about deformed spines, and such fish can live a long life even if you wouldn't want to breed from them). The Gourami should be observed too, but I can't think of any immediate treatment here, either.>
*Problem:* There is something seriously wrong with the dwarf gourami. His body is bent strangely 24/7, and one side looks bloated, but it's hard to tell if that's because of or in addition to the bent body. He can't seem to sit still without floating to the top of the tank, where he will often just stay, floating still sideways, for hours on end. Recently he has started swimming to the bottom under some fake plants and sitting still there for hours on end, and will only move if scared away. But when he's not sitting still he seems to be able to swim wherever he wants/however fast he wants but has to fight the tendency to float upward. Since all these fish are new to me, I'm not sure if the darker brown/greens on its head and bottom fin are new or have always been there. He also has stringy white/translucent stuff that hangs out of his butt, which is evidently some kind of parasite.
The previous owner today said "he wasn't always like that...only after his buddy died...I'm surprised he's still alive." So he was like this before she gave him to me but not the entire time she had him.
<It does sound strange. The bent spine thing is a symptom rather than a disease, and as mentioned before can be caused by Mycobacteria, by dietary problems, or by inbreeding (though genetic reasons will be apparent from birth, so not likely the issue here).>
At first a lot of the sites I was reading suggested it was just constipation/swim bladder issues, so I fasted him and tried peas and later zucchini, to no avail. Yesterday a lot of sites seemed to be indicating he either had Iridovirus (decreased activity, possible abdominal swelling, possible loss of color) or tuberculosis (bent spine, possible wasting?),
but the problem is the gourami doesn't seem to be exhibiting the *major* symptoms of those diseases, and none of the other fish seem to have anything similarly wrong with them, except perhaps the pale female guppy I mention below.
<If the Dwarf Gourami is feeding, and interacting with you/other fish, you might hold off euthanising. But I'd be very, very observant. Why? Because Mycobacteria probably gets transmitted from sick/dead fish to healthy fish, so "breaking the cycle" of infection is pretty much the only way aquarists can minimise the risks. In fairness to Mycobacteria though, this bacteria is probably latent in all tanks, and healthy fish don't get sick from it.
Something has to stress them, such as poor water quality or the wrong diet (a big issue with herbivores, I suspect) and that in turn leads to the Mycobacteria getting established in your fish.>
I should also point out that both neon tetras seem to have some kind of fungal infection, the platy's lower fin was torn in the net when the previous owner was getting it ready for me, and one of the female guppies seems extra pale/translucent and perhaps deformed, but it may be partially due to the stress of constantly being followed around by the 7 male guppies. The platy often just hangs out in the gravel or swims in one place for a while, but when there's food it has no problem getting to the top of the tank. The pale guppy often will stay put in one place for a while, seemingly to take a break from the males, but I don't know. I've only had these fish for two weeks.
<Understood. I fear you really have been thrown in the deep end of the pool here! Normally fishkeeping is very easy. Literally feed them and change some water every couple of weeks. Sickness usually is caused, rather than bad luck, so pre-empting sickness is the name of the game. You haven't had a chance here because these fish seem to be very sick already.>
I've included photos of each fish with problems, as well as the whole aquarium and a pic of a long translucent string that might be a worm stuck to a fake plant.
<Merely faeces. Not an issue in itself, but can indicate constipation or, among cichlids particularly, Hexamita.>
Please help me out here. Should I just start parasite/fungal treatments?
<I think a combination Finrot/Fungus medication could help the Neons, but I'm not convinced this/these fish are savable. Buy something heavy-duty, like Kanaplex, that will handle Columnaris, which I think is what the Neons
have. It's a good general purpose antibiotic that handles Septicaemia and some fungal infections too. Septicaemia could easily cause some of these symptoms.>
Is there a risk in combining medications?
<I'd only use Kanaplex to start with. Yes, mixing medications has a risk, but if used as instructed they should be safe. Do remember the golden rules though -- stick to the state dosage; remove carbon from the filter (if used); and always finish the entire course, even if the fish "look better".>
Should I euthanize the dwarf gourami so that tb/Iridovirus don't spread?
Something else?
<See above.>
Tank stats: Two lights on timers, I think less than 8 total hours a day (although it gets plenty of ambient light)
GH 180 KH 80 pH 6.5/7 Nitrite 0 Nitrate 20 or 40
Emperor 400 filter with a tube sucking from below the substrate. Previous owner apparently didn't have BioWheels so I got some - not sure how long the BioWheels were missing.
Heater set to 77 F
Two big air wands and a wave fan
No live plants
2 water changes thus far, complete with de-chlorinating stuff each a week apart
<All sounds fine.>
I will also say that when I got the tank back to my place there was a *lot* of gross brown sludge in and under the gravel that I thoroughly cleaned out.
<Good.>
Here's a Google drive link of all the photos I have of the fish with problems. This is obviously pretty urgent so if you have any other questions I will probably respond within a few hours. I can even give you videos of any behavior you need to observe. I *greatly* appreciate any help you can give me.
https://docs.google.com/folderview?id=0B9--3S8Wx5gtWUo2WDB2SE9WWmM&usp=drive_web>
<Hope this helps and good luck, Neale.>

I would appreciate advice on DGIV...?        5/31/16
I've had my 55 gallon tank for 8 months, I also purchased a Fluval G3 filtering system, and cycled my water for a few weeks before adding my fish. I sadly had to buy my fish from Petco (the nearest reputable fish store is a minimum of 3 hours away.) I have 5 harlequin Rasboras, 5 Bloodfin tetras, 5 black phantom tetras, 2 Corydoras, 1 Farlowella catfish,
<These are very tricky to keep alive... most die within a few months... do need cool water (22-24 C/72-75 F), a brisk water current, lots of oxygen, and ample green algae or equivalent to eat. Without these, usually end up dead. Compatible to some degree with your livestock, though not the Gourami, which needs warm, relatively still water.>
1 albino Bristlenose Pleco, and a red fire dwarf gourami. I have 2 10 gallon quarantine tanks that I quarantined all the fish I before adding to the tank. About 7 months ago, my gourami became bloated, it also has a slightly deformed gill on one side. I was worried, moved him to a quarantine for a month and kept a close watch on him, not once did he display a lack of appetite or even the slightest behavior change, so I thought to myself "that's just how he is going to look" and put him back in the big tank. He's stayed the same amount of bloated and has behaved like a healthy fish, until a few days ago when I noticed he was a little pale, but is eating like a pig and swimming great.
<Which is good, and unlike DGIV; the bloating could be something else.
Constipation, for example. This is covered elsewhere on WWM; treatment involves Epsom salt, which could be used alongside an antibiotic to clear up the lesions. For example, the lesions could be caused by damage (even burns, if the fish lent against a hot heater) or by rasping (some Plecs will do that to slow-moving fish).>
Today I noticed that the little guy has 2 small lesions on his side, the side with the bad gill... He's still eating fine and everything but I brought up your webpage, learned about this very sad and unfortunate disease, and I feel hopeless, do you think that his symptoms are that of DGIV?
<Not if he's still eating. But if he's off his food as well, well yes, that is rather gloomy.>
And if you do think he has the disease, should I go ahead and put him down or wait until it progresses into final stages?
<Would direct you here:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/euthanasia.htm
Discussion of modes of humane destruction.>
I really hate to watch anything suffer.... All other fish in the tank are perfectly fine... Also my tank is kept at 77.3 degrees during the day (due to the giant windows near the tank) and at night it lowers to 76.9, is that bad?
<It's a bit warm for Farlowella and most Corydoras, but ironically, not especially warm by the standards of Dwarf Gouramis. The impact of the small variation by day and night is trivial though.>
My parameters are : ph 7.2 ppm, ammonia 0 ppm, calcium hardness 209, nitrites 0 ppm, nitrates 0 ppm. Thank you so much for taking your time to read this (Callie)
<Most welcome. Neale.>

Gourami with a bump on his chin        4/6/16 Hi all. Newbie here, appreciate any help you can offer. <Ok> I've got a Powder Blue Dwarf Gourami who's been in my tank about a month (details of tank below). I got him on the advice of my (I think, highly reputable) local fish store before I realized how prone to disease these guys are. <Trouble> But he's here now and I like him, so any help in keeping him healthy is appreciated. He's got a bump/swelling under his eye/lower jaw area. <I see this in your too large, uncropped pix> This has been present for about a week. It's increased very very slightly in size in the week. He's otherwise eating well, swimming/acting normally, stools look normal, his color is good, etc. Everyone else in the tank seems healthy. I've attached a pic. Also, if he makes it, I'd like to get him a girlfriend but I don't want to risk another possibly-sick Dwarf. <All Colisa lalia imported are> Would a female of another small hardier Gourami species get along with him? <Yes> Thoughts? Help! * 20gal tall * Water parameters Ammonia? - .25ppm <!? Needs to be zero, zip, nada. See, as in READ on WWM re> Nitrite? - 0 Nitrate? -10ppm pH 7.5 (Chicago tap water), KH and GH unknown *Temperature -76 degrees *Tank set up: 3 months, 1 fishless cycling and 2 with fish in <? Should've cycled by now...> *Inhabitants: 6 Serpae Tetras all about 1.5 inches and George the Gourami about 1.5 inches as well *Decor: densely "planted" with silk plants, fine gravel substrate, one cave, opening plenty large *Great Choice 20gal that came with the kit (yes, i know now that's not a great filter and I'll replace it soon) * Water change schedule - 5 gal change weekly (25%), tap water with TopFin conditioner, about 1/4 vacuumed with each change * Foods - freeze-dried blood worms and daphnia each once per week, flakes on other days Thanks! SP <Hard to determine from pix what these bumps are; but they portend morbidity and mortality. I'll ask Neale Monks here to explain a bit more. Bob Fenner>

goner

Gourami with a bump on his chin     /Neale for the win!        4/6/16 Hi all. Newbie here, appreciate any help you can offer. I've got a Powder Blue Dwarf Gourami who's been in my tank about a month (details of tank below). I got him on the advice of my (I think, highly reputable) local fish store before I realized how prone to disease these guys are. But he's here now and I like him, so any help in keeping him healthy is appreciated. He's got a bump/swelling under his eye/lower jaw area. This has been present for about a week. It's increased very slightly in size in the week. He's otherwise eating well, swimming/acting normally, stools look normal, his color is good, etc. Everyone else in the tank seems healthy. I've attached a pic. Also, if he makes it, I'd like to get him a girlfriend but I don't want to risk another possibly-sick Dwarf. Would a female of another small hardier Gourami species get along with him? Thoughts? Help! * 20gal tall * Water parameters Ammonia? - .25ppm Nitrite? - 0 Nitrate? -10ppm pH 7.5 (Chicago tap water), KH and GH unknown *Temperature -76 degrees *Tank set up: 3 months, 1 fishless cycling and 2 with fish in *Inhabitants: 6 Serpae Tetras all about 1.5 inches and George the Gourami about 1.5 inches as well *Decor: densely "planted" with silk plants, fine gravel substrate, one cave, opening plenty large *Grreat Choice 20gal that came with the kit (yes, i know now that's not a great filter and I'll replace it soon) * Water change schedule - 5 gal change weekly (25%), tap water with TopFin conditioner, about 1/4 vacuumed with each change * Foods - freeze-dried blood worms and daphnia each once per week, flakes on other days Thanks! SP <Hello Stephanie. Like Bob, I'm not optimistic here. This species (and all its colour forms) has almost always been exposed to an extremely contagious virus (called Dwarf Gourami Iridovirus) on the Asian fish farms where it's produced, and even if that wasn't bad enough, inbreeding has weakened it to such a degree that it lacks the resistance of the original wild fish much loved by hobbyists in the last century. Such farmed fish are very prone to Mycobacteria infections that manifest themselves in various ways, but usually kicking off with lethargy, then blisters on the flanks and fins, and eventually death. Basically, they're not worth buying. Luckily, DGIV does not seem to affect most other community fish, though I'd not risk other gouramis, and so gambling on a Dwarf Gouramis alongside tetras, danios, Corydoras, etc. isn't a problem. There's no treatment for DGIV, so you just have to see what happens. Mycobacteria is a bit different. It's incurable, but it's also opportunistic, which means in optimal conditions there's no particular reason your fish should contract it. So focus on the fundamentals. Good water quality, plenty of warmth (26-28 C/79-82 F), and crucially, water that isn't too hard, aim for 1-12 degrees dH. Lifespan in harder water is not that good. I'd also point out that Serpae Tetras are highly aggressive "biters" and not to be trusted with other fish, especially not slow-moving or long-finned tankmates, such as Gouramis, Angels, Bettas, and so on. Cheers, Neale.>

Dreaded dwarf gourami (dis.)     6/24/15
Hi, I have a 50L tank with one male dwarf gourami (I have been reading so much information on your site about why NOT to buy them!),
<Yikes; yes>
6 harlequin Rasboras, 6 cardinal tetras and 1 young female bristle-nosed catfish.
A few days ago I noticed the gourami had a small lesion on his side, and a whitish spot appeared there. I also noticed a flat white patch on his tail fin and one on his dorsal fin where it meets his body. There is also a very small tear (1mm or so) in his tail fin in the middle of the white patch. A day or two later he has a damaged 'feeler' (not sure what these are really called)
<Good as name as any... they're Pelvic fins>
and it looks 'broken' about a third of the way down and hangs at an odd angle. He has otherwise been behaving normally.
I checked my water parameters and these are fine except I am struggling to keep the pH down as my tap water sits at a very alkaline 7.8. I am checking this every day or so and at the moment adding "pH down" to try and keep it within an acceptable range.
<Mmm; best to not fight... the fishes you list can live in water of 7.8 pH... Is there a part of the decor responsible for this higher value? Or just constituents of your tap/mains water? IF you were to adjust, DO this outside the system, via new water changes in time>
I know having it fluctuate is not good for the fish but I am hoping it will stabilise at some point. Currently it keeps gradually increasing to 7-7.2 over 1-2 days.
<Mmm; yes... you have a source of "alkalinity" (alkaline reserve) a confusing term with alkaline pH... A matter of chemical resistance... from where? Again, gravel, shells, rocks...>
I have treated the tank for white spot as I had a devastating infestation of this a few weeks ago with some cardinal tetras. I don't think it has helped at all. I am tossing up whether to repeat the treatment as the packet recommends. I am not sure this is white spot.
<Can only really be determined through (skin slime) sampling and microscopic exam>
All the other fish appear perfectly healthy. My gourami is behaving quite normally otherwise and eating well. He doesn't seem to be displaying the signs of dwarf gourami disease of listlessness etc. I would really appreciate any assistance with identifying what the culprit might be and finding the appropriate cure. If is dwarf gourami disease then so be it and I will have learned not to buy this species but if it is a fungal/bacterial infection that can be treated then I will do everything in
my power to help him heal.
Thanks, in anticipation, for your response.
Kind regards,
Helen
<The marks might be due to simple stress; the treatment for Ich; exposure to the same... I would continue observation, have you read on WWM re simple temperature manipulation as a cure:
http://wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/fwichsenslvstk.htm
Bob Fenner>
Re: Dreaded dwarf gourami       6/25/15
Hi Bob,
Thanks for your response. Today my gourami's lesions are pink and raw looking and he has some new ones on his upper lip. His broken pelvic fin has come away sadly. I was hoping against hope it would somehow heal.
I plan to visit the pet store and buy a general antibacterial treatment to try.
<Trouble Helen...>
I was very interested re alkaline reserve. My tank contains gravel substrate, some natural rocks, 2 pieces of drift wood (I read somewhere these may help lower the pH although they haven't as I think they are so long submerged they don't seem to leach any tannins) and is reasonably heavily planted with real plants.
<You're right re the wood... you might want to do an experiment w/ some of the gravel and rocks... just soak (though you can boil to speed thinks up) in RO, neutral water... you will find a significant rise in pH>
Which of these could be causing the problem?
<Calcareous materials>
I want the environment to be as close to optimal for them as possible.
Would you still advise me just to leave the high pH?
<Yes I would/have>
I was thinking it might have been stressing the gourami and predisposing him to infection??
<Genes are the problem here>
Cheers,
Helen
<And you, BobF>

Dwarf gouramis; repro. f' mostly        2/7/15 Hi I have been reading most of your answers on Dwarf gouramis but can not find the answer to my question I have bought my gouramis from a local supplier. <Hopefully a local breeder> I have 2 females and just bought a new male 2 days ago He mated with the smaller female straight away eggs everywhere no bubble nest I was not to worried but the 2nd female started getting bigger <Mmm> The next morning she is huge in the belly she looks like she is about to pop. ( I have had the females for 6mths) is this normal ? <Not unusual> Because I read they will swell but this is amazing in such a short time Any answers too this ?? <The influence of the male, the other female spawning likely inciting the other female to swell w/ eggs possibly... the "other"  female will either expel these eggs w/ or w/o the males assistance or resorb them. IF you had another system to move the spawn and male to, and wanted to try your hand at rearing the young... I might move them to it (not the females); otherwise, IF the system is large enough (a twenty long or larger let's say), all can stay in place. Bob Fenner> Cheers Gail Dwarf gouramis; repro....  Dropsy?      /Neale        2/8/15 Hi I have been reading most of your answers on Dwarf gouramis but can not find the answer to my question <Indeed?> I have bought my gouramis from a local supplier. <Yes...> I have 2 females and just bought a new male 2 days ago <Okay.> He mated with the smaller female straight away eggs everywhere no bubble nest I was not to worried but the 2nd female started getting bigger <Did he mate with her (characteristic rolling, U-shaped embrace) or did he merely court her (chase her about, possibly even nipping her a little). While gouramis will interact quite vigorously, spawning is rarer, and depends upon both fish being properly "conditioned" beforehand (which usually requires the use of live or frozen foods; dried foods are rarely sufficient). You also need to provide something for the bubble-nest to be built around. Floating Indian Fern is ideal, but pieces of polystyrene cup work very well too.> The next morning she is huge in the belly she looks like she is about to pop. ( I have had the females for 6mths) is this normal? <Depends. Gravid (egg-carrying) females are somewhat swollen compared to normal. But Dwarf Gouramis are prone to numerous problems including bacterial infections that cause abdominal swelling.> Because I read they will swell but this is amazing in such a short time <Indeed. If, by the time you've read this reply, she's back to normal, then chances are she was "ripe" with eggs. But if she's still swollen, and looks more like she's swallowed a basketball than simply carrying eggs, then the problem may be more serious.> Any answers too this ?? <Avoid buying Dwarf Gouramis! I kid you not. They're not a very worthwhile species. I hope you get lucky, of course, and have a trio of healthy, unproblematic specimens. Condition them with live/frozen foods; provide soft, slightly acidic water chemistry; and install some suitable floating plants, and healthy Dwarf Gouramis will spawn readily. They almost never spawn in hard water, dried foods rarely condition them, and without appropriate floating objects they can't build their nests.> Cheers Gail <Cheers, Neale.> Female Gouramis from Gail (Pimafix this time, Bob!)       2/8/15 Re: Dwarf gouramis Thanks very much for your speed reply Neale <Welcome.> I do have floating weed in the tank. <Good.> And the supplier is from Brisbane and has been breeding them for ages <Cool.> But the 2nd female now looks like a basketball and the male did not mate with her at all <Indeed; she has dropsy.> She was fine until I introduced the male then she just blew up, in 2 days. She is still active not drowsy at all just hiding from the male. I have started treating the tank with a blue plant multi cure and PimaFix antifungal remedy in case of something else going on. <Neither of these products is worthwhile. In fact Melafix/Pimafix are very much products sold to inexperienced or desperate fishkeepers. I know of hardly any experienced fishkeepers who buy them, and no vets/fish health experts who recommend them. At best, Pimafix might be useful for preventing external infections after physical damage (it probably is a mild antifungal to some degree) but I wouldn't use it for anything more serious than that. The golden rule with fish medications (as with human medications) is to identify the problem first, then choose the specific tool (medicine) to treat it. Throwing in medications before identifying the problem is kind of like a doctor giving you a random packet of pills without bothering to diagnose you. Your female quite obviously has abdominal swelling, possibly constipation, but more likely Dropsy (a symptom rather than a disease, but commonly caused by bacterial infections). So, treatment would be this: Epsom salt (1-3 teaspoons per 5 gallons/20 litres) alongside an antibiotic treatment specifically tailored to internal, Dropsy-type infections (something like Seachem KanaPlex). Note that general antibiotics used for external infections such as Finrot aren't likely to be much good. If antibiotics are restricted where you live (in Europe and Australia for example they're strictly by prescription only) then certain antibacterial medications may be tried instead. These tend to be less reliable in later stage infections, but if fish is otherwise healthy and still feeding, there's a decent chance such medications will work. My preferred medication is eSHa 2000, widely sold in the UK and Europe (and available on Australian eBay, for example), but in your part of the world you might need to ferret about to find an equivalent sold in your local aquarium shops. I simply don't know the Australian aquarium market well enough.> And I promise I will not buy dwarf gouramis again but I would like to try and save the female if possible add a poor photo <Understandable, and doable. Indeed, with optimal water quality, and I mean, spotlessly clean water, the Epsom salt on its own might do the trick if the problem is very mild. Epsom salt (not common/table salt!!!) is a mild laxative (which helps with constipation) and also helps to reduce swelling in fish. Sometimes, just sometimes, it's enough of a tonic for the fish's own immune system to kick in. It's certainly worth doing since Epsom salt is easy to buy locally, so you can get started today. Mail order some medications from eBay or an online retailer if your local store doesn't offer anything worthwhile, and with luck, the Epsom salt will buy your fish some time while the medications are in the post.> So my question is should I be treating the tank with something else <Yes.> Many thanks Cheers Gail <Cheers, Neale.> re: Female Gouramis from Gail (Pimafix this time, Bob!)       2/8/15 Thank Neale I will on to that first thing in the morning yes I am in Australia so will try eBay Cheers Gail <Most welcome. Good luck!>

Dwarf Gourami illness       2/5/15 Hi. <MP> I’m hoping someone can help me figure out what is wrong with my Dwarf Gourami. I really feel helpless not knowing what to do to help him. The marks on him appeared within one day. <?! Strange> At first I thought maybe the second Dwarf Gourami had beat him up because he was chasing him around the aquarium. The aquarium is a 75 gallon tank. Parameters are Ammonia 0ppm, Nitrite 0 ppm, Nitrates 10 ppm. temperature is 79-80 degrees. <A bit warm; but okay> Tank occupants are were two dwarf Gouramis, ten Cardinal Tetras, 8 Cherry Barbs, and a Bristlenose Pleco. Everyone else in the tank is fine and seems healthy. I fed them the evening before and watched them eat. He seemed fine. The next morning I got up and turned their lights on and he was in his usual sleeping spot so I didn’t pay much attention to him. That evening I came home from work and went to feed them. After he came up to eat, I noticed all the marks on him. I keep a quarantine tank ready so I pulled him and put him in it. At first he ate, but after a couple days he stopped eating. I had been treating him with Melafix <Worse than worthless. See WWM re this sham; and stop pouring it in> hoping he would show signs of improvement, but it appears he is getting worse. I appreciate any help you can give me. <Please see the Net, WWM specifically re the viral condition broadly labeled as "Lymphocystis"; and especially its prevalence in Colisa lalia. Is this it? All that can be done for such is improved water quality and nutrition. Unfortunately, as you'll soon more fully understand, Dwarf Gouramis have a host of REAL troubles, are subject to easily diseased conditions. Bob Fenner>

Re: Dwarf Gourami illness This does appear to be it. Thank you. Is there anything I need to do to my tank to make sure it's safe to ad other fish to it? <Reading> I'm not adding anything else until I know for sure there is nothing in there to harm them. The existing fish in there still seem happy and healthy with good appetites, but I'm going to continue to keep an eye on them for a while to be safe. <All... "stress-related"... too much... given genetic predisposition... No more "Fix". BobF> Re: Dwarf Gourami illness       /Neale       2/6/15 This does appear to be it. Thank you. Is there anything I need to do to my tank to make sure it's safe to ad other fish to it? I'm not adding anything else until I know for sure there is nothing in there to harm them. The existing fish in there still seem happy and healthy with good appetites, but I'm going to continue to keep an eye on them for a while to be safe. <<I do concur with Bob about Lymphocystis being likely, but the size of the photos means I'm not 100% sure. At first glance I though serious Finrot, which can form nasty lumps on the fins and skin. These can be distinguished from Lymphocystis with a bit of care. Finrot is what it sounds like, rotting, decaying skin and fin tissue. Often pinkish in colour, with darker red bleeding and/or white dead patches nearby. Finrot usually begins with fin membrane turning cloudy and eroding, leaving a distinctive cobweb appearance as the transparent membranes decay faster than the bony fin rays. The dead tissue lumps on the body only appear late in the infection. Usually caused by physical damage, exacerbated by poor water quality. Eminently treatable if caught early. Lymphocystis is more like warts. The lumps are sometimes textured (similarities with cauliflower is often mentioned) and there isn't normally any nearby sign of bleeding or dead skin. Lymphocystis isn't treatable (it's viral), develops and progresses extremely slowly (unlike Finrot, which can go from incipient to deadly serious within a week) and may take months, even years to run its course. Some individual fish seem to be prone to Lympho their entire lives, and may live decades with the warts coming and going, seemingly without causing any serious harm. Debate about the causes, but water quality, and in particular exposure to toxins (such as heavy metals) at persistently low rather than fatal levels being suggested. It does seem to be "higher" fish groups that are most prone -- perciformes, synbranchiformes, tetraodontiformes, etc. As Bob indicated in his reply, and as you'll doubtless find out in your reading, the Dwarf Gourami is a total nightmare so far as healthcare goes. What was once an extremely hardy, extremely reliable community fish is now probably the most difficult to keep "common" community fish in the trade. If you can get locally bred ones, they're great (though sadly females are hardly seen on sale). Once in a while, the farms in Southeast Asia send out some healthy specimens, but more by luck than judgment. But most are virus-ridden and juiced up on antibiotics before being sent out to the retailers. Do look out for the much better Thick-Lipped Gourami and the Banded Gourami, both of which look similar, if less strongly coloured, and retain a much higher level of hardiness and disease-resistance. Cheers, Neale.>>

Dwarf Gourami with sores on his body, put him down or try to heal him?     9/10/14 Hi, I have a 33 gallon community tank (stocked with 3 Kuhli loaches, 5 WMC minnows, 1 dwarf rainbow fish, 4 zebra Danio, 5 Corydoras elegans, one bnp Pleco and one 5" common Pleco). <The Common Plec will grow much too big for this tank; I would rehome promptly before it damages the water quality. Do also read on...> I had 3 dwarf Gourami all purchased at the same time from the same store. One by one I started losing them. <Ah yes...> The first developed an open sure that seemed to be caused by a nipped scale and this eventually led to massive bloating and I put him down to end his suffering, the second had something similar but just up and died overnight one night soon after noticing anything wrong. I thought when there was just one left that he would be fine because there would be no one left to nip at him and cause open wounds. <Yes.> Over the course of about 3-4 days one side of his body has become thoroughly infested with open wounds. I have no idea what caused them nor why they keep getting worse, there is no aggressive behaviour ever displayed for me to see, and not and sharp objects that would have abraded his scales just rubbing next to them (just driftwood, my filter intake and the heater). I have been dosing the tank with Melafix hoping it would help somewhat but it does not appear to be helping in the least. <Quite so. Most of the problems with these Dwarf Gouramis are a toss up between Mycobacteria infections and viral infections (look at Dwarf Gourami Iridovirus) neither of which you can treat. Mycobacteria infections are somewhat opportunistic, but DGIV is supplied as a free gift from the Asian fish farms who crank out these fish to a price not a quality. Absolutely nothing to be done except to stop buying farmed Dwarf Gouramis.> Is there anything I can do for him? Or would it be best to just put him down? <If he's still feeding, isolating in a quarantine tank (8-10 gallons is fine) and hoping for the best is an option. Do remember Dwarf Gouramis need soft, slightly acidic water that's quite warm; 2-12 degrees dKH, pH 6-7.5, 24-28 C. Another reason to isolate the fish is a long-shot. Some Suckermouth catfish "latch" onto slow moving fish, including Gouramis. I've seen Otocinclus do this to freshwater gobies, and others have told me about Common Plecs doing it to cichlids. Why? In some cases it may be starvation. Plecs are big fish with big appetites, and in a 33 gallon tank chances are you aren't throwing in the head of lettuce this chap wants to get through every week! An adult Plec will eat literally a bowlful of seafood and vegetables given the chance, but in small tanks we sometimes expect them to get by on algae, leftovers, and maybe the odd pellet or wafer. In lieu of anything else, they go for the mucous on the flanks of fish. Properly fed Plecs usually never do this bad behaviour, and in fact are among the "safest" fish in the hobby when it comes to choosing tankmates. > I have attached a picture of his condition, is there anything that can be done? Do you think this is Dwarf Gourami Iridovirus as others online have suggested? -Thank you for your time, Leonie. <Cheers, Neale.> Re: Dwarf Gourami with sores on his body, put him down or try to heal him?     9/11/14 Thank you for the help, <Welcome.> I might put him in quarantine tonight and see if that helps at all. Unfortunately I don't have time to go and get any meds, and the I don't think the Triple-Sulfa I tried when treating the previous sick Gourami will be effective this time when it failed last time. <Likely won't help in this situation, no.> I'm not very confident on his chances. Is this symptoms of DGI? <Yes, but sores can be caused by all sorts of other things too: physical damage, Mycobacteria to name but two.> Or something else they are susceptible to? Will I be able to have Gourami in the future? <I wouldn't bother with farmed Dwarf Gouramis, no. But Thick-Lipped Gouramis and Banded Gouramis are pretty similar and much more reliable. If you have soft, acidic water chemistry, Honey Gouramis aren't too difficult to keep, though barely qualify as community fish (shy, easily bullied away from food).> Are there other small colourful and somewhat non-aggressive varieties that would do better? <See above.> If this is DGI, is there a timeframe that I can expect it to have died out of my tank? <So far as we can tell, DGIV only affects the Dwarf Gourami species Colisa lalia (including farmed sorts like Neon Gouramis, Red Robins, etc). The other species of Gourami seem more or less immune, or at least, very unlikely to sicken from it.> And I'm well aware that the Pleco will outgrow the tank but am a little attached to him and am planning to upgrade tank size just for him within the next year or so. he is the lone survivor of our initial foray into fish with a 5 gal tank with the common Pleco and 3 goldfish (PetSmart needs to educate its fish people to not sell common Plecos and goldfish for small tanks...). I think he is eating fine, he gets a couple of thick slices of cucumber or zucchini almost daily. <Cool. Would still keep an eye out. They are scavengers, and will attack weak/moribund fish.> Thank you again for your help and time, Leonie. <Cheers, Neale.>

DGIV     9/5/14 Hi there, <Greetings, Claire,> I've been reading your site and have a few questions in regards to the Dwarf Gourami Iridovirus, since my Dwarf Gourami was presenting with a crooked back the other night when I performed a partial water change. <Oh dear.> He is currently in a small 2.5 gallon tank with one small Panda Corydoras. <2.5 gallons is obviously way too small. Is this temporary? Like a quarantine tank? Really, even 10 gallons is tight for a Dwarf Gourami, and 15 gal. more realistic.> I first got him back in March, and he's been doing pretty well as far as I can see. My original stock was him and two Corydoras sterbai. Those two lasted about two months, and I am unsure what killed them. <Unlikely to prosper in 2.5 gallons. Do need space, relatively cool (22-25 C) water, lots of oxygen. Dwarf Gouramis are air-breathers and somewhat better suited to sluggish water flows in the wild.> The Panda that he is in with now was one of two that I got a few weeks after the loss of the other Corydoras. Again, I'm unsure what killed the other Panda Cory, but he lasted less than two weeks. I had a brief issue with cloudy water, which I now believe was due to overfeeding and have since rectified. <Do improve aquarium size; will massively improve your success.> The Gourami and the Panda Cory have been doing just fine for several months now, but after reading your information on the virus I am wondering if my tank could be carrying it or Piscine TB (those are the only two diseases I could find with "crooked back" as a symptom). The thing is, after the water change, he seems to have straightened back out again and is doing just fine. Both fish are active, have good appetites, and don't show too much hiding behavior. Could he have had a virus and somehow survived it, or is he temporarily safe from ultimate doom? <Neither. I've never heard of truly deformed or crooked backs "healing" whatever the cause was; but fish can adopt unusual body postures when environmentally stressed (the "nose down" of Tiger Barbs is the best known) and these do return to normal when conditions are better. Would be much more likely to put your observations to this, especially if the Dwarf Gourami was otherwise asymptomatic (eating, swimming, no bloody sores, etc.).> I don't intend to put any more fish in with them anyway, but I'm curious as to the incubation periods for these two diseases and the possibility of them surviving. Thank you in advance! Claire PS- The Corydoras has had absolutely no symptoms. He eats fine, looks fine, swims fine...nothing suspicious from him except his little masked face. <Cheers, Neale.> re: DGIV   9/5/14 Thank you for your help! I was wrong about the tank size though...they're actually in my five gallon. <Still much too small.> I read the wrong box when I went to check. I've attached a picture of my setup. Is there any way I could be sure he doesn't carry the virus, or is it something that can stick around indefinitely? <Honestly, do believe the problem is/will be environmental. Do remember that "Fish TB" (more properly, Mycobacteria infections) and to some degree viral infections are mediated by the environment. It isn't so much the pathogen that's the death sentence -- these bacteria and viruses are probably in most/all tanks. It's when the Dwarf Gourami gets stressed (tank too small, too cold, too hard and alkaline, bullied) that the pathogens are able to cause problems. Five gallons is ample for a Betta, which would be a better choice here. As stated earlier, even 10 gallons is tight for a Dwarf Gourami.> Thanks again! <Most welcome. Neale.> re: DGIV   9/5/14 Alright, thanks :) I'll look into new housing. <Good to hear. Cheers, Neale.> Re: DGIV   9/5/14 Hi again Neale (I'm sure I'm probably getting on your nerves by now), <Claire,> I've looked into getting a 15 gallon, but unfortunately that's not going to be financially feasible right now. <I see.> I already have a ten gallon that I can set up fairly easily though, so I'll be moving him and his Corydoras pal in there either tonight or tomorrow. <Cool.> Does he need to be in there mostly by himself, or can I put another fish or two in with them eventually? If so, what would you recommend? <I would aim for the one Dwarf Gourami and maybe 3-4 of the Corydoras species you have. Should work okay.> Also, I'd like to keep my five gallon up and running since it's in my daughter's playroom. The water tends to stay in the high 70's in here without a heater (I have one, but it's going to have to move with the Gourami). Will a Betta be alright in that temperature? <Could do, but Bettas aren't necessarily the best choice for kids. Can be delicate, don't do much, easily overfed. But yes, can work provided temperature doesn't drop below 24 C/75 F. And for sure a better choice than Goldfish. You might also see if you can get Dwarf Mosquitofish (Heterandria formosa) or Cherry Shrimps locally. Both can work in 5 gallons, neither needs heat in a centrally heated home, and under reasonable conditions, both breed freely. Cherry Shrimps are colourful, while Dwarf Mosquitofish are very charming and fun to watch. I keep both in an 8-gallon tank in the kitchen, and this is the easiest tank in the house to look after.> Thanks again! I'm a little mad at myself for not having this straight from the get go...you'd think a degree in Marine Science would have taught me better >.< <Ah yes, the difference between theory and practise!> Claire <Cheers, Neale.> Re: DGIV   9/5/14 Ha! I did all of my undergrad work with sharks... <Sounds very cool indeed.> who'd have thought I'd be thwarted by a two inch Colisa lalia? <If it's any consolation, pretty much the whole hobby finds them heavy lifting these days. Inbreeding, mass production, and the relatively recent appearance of the DGIV pathogen have caused serious problems.> Thanks for all of your help ^_^ <Cheers, Neale.>

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