FAQs about Naso lituratus
Disease-Health 3
FAQs on Lipstick Tang Disease:
Lipstick Tang Disease 1,
Lipstick Tang Disease 2,
Lipstick Tang Disease
4, Lipstick Tang Disease ,
FAQs on Lipstick Tang Disease by Category:
Diagnosis,
Environmental,
Nutritional,
Social,
Trauma,
Pathogenic (plus see
Tangs/Rabbitfishes &
Crypt),
Genetic,
TreatmentsRelated Articles: Lipstick Tangs, Naso
Tangs, Surgeonfishes/Tangs/Doctorfishes and Marine
Aquariums,
Related FAQs:
Lipstick Tangs 1, Lipstick Tangs 2, & Lipstick Tang Identification, Lipstick Tang Behavior, Lipstick Tang Compatibility, Lipstick Tang Selection, Lipstick Tang Systems, Lipstick Tang Feeding, Lipstick Tang Reproduction, & Naso Tangs 1, Naso Tangs 2, Naso
Tangs 3, Naso ID, Naso Behavior, Naso Compatibility, Naso Selection, Naso Systems, Naso Feeding, Naso Disease, Naso Reproduction, Surgeons In General, Tang
ID, Selection,
Tang
Behavior,
Compatibility, Systems, Feeding, Disease,
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Surgeonfishes: Tangs for Marine Aquariums
Diversity, Selection & Care
New eBook on Amazon: Available here
New Print Book on Create Space: Available
here
by Robert (Bob) Fenner |
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Naso tang disease question
1/25/16
Hi,
<A few hundred Kbytes of clear pix; better than 6.5 Megs....>
My Naso has been looking like this for about a week.
<Not good.... either excess body mucus (likely rather than pathogens) or a
latent infestation at play here. What re water quality tests, the history of the
set up, other livestock present. You know, data of use>
Just today he seems more lethargic and not really eating..... I do have
ich in the tank
<Oh! Am reversing my opinion. This IS likely Crypt or other Protozoan>
but it is under control. Please let me know if you have any questions.
<Just the ones above.... Why such large files, lack of information.... Keep
READING:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/crypttangs.htm
and the linked files above. Bob Fenner>
Thank you!
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re: Naso tang disease question 1/25/16
Thank you! Were you able to see the pics?
<Yes>
Water quality is good.
<.... stop; subjective evaluations are of little use. NEED DATA>
All corals and other fish look fine. Hippo tang gets an ich spot here or
there. Naso is still eating but with less enthusiasm..... I have encountered
ich many times and this simply doesn't look like it......I was thinking
velvet, is
that possible?
<READ where you've been referred to. BobF>
re: Naso tang disease question
1/26/16
Thanks.
Temp 78.6
Salinity 1.025
Nitrate 10 ppm
Ammonia 0
Nitrite 0
Calcium 420
Alkalinity 8.4
Magnesium 1200
Ph 8.3
<These are good values en toto. Cheers, B>
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Quarantine question; Naso hlth f' 8/13/15
Hello and greetings from Illinois,
<Right back atcha from S. Cal.>
I have now waited 7 weeks and my service brought me a Hepatus Tang, Blonde
Naso Tang, Longnosed Butterfly and Royal Gramma which we put into the
quarantine tank. Our plan is to give them one day in the QT to de stress, and
tomorrow we will freshwater dip them and put them in the main tank. All of the
fish look good except the Blonde Naso Tang which has white blotches on it. My
service tells me this is from stress and will go away.
<Likely so>
Attached is a picture,
<Nada attached>
do you agree? Thank you very much in advance.
Ciao,
Steve
<S'long. Bob Fenner>
Re: Quarantine question 8/13/15
Sorry. Here is the picture. Thank you again.
<Mmm; well; too small for Naso lituratus really. READ on WWM re. B>
Ciao,
Steve
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Re: Quarantine question 8/13/15
I read WWM and see what you mean about the size.
<Ah, good... again; the spots are stress-related.... I'd expedite (as you stated
was your intention) this Naso.>
Thank you very much.
<Welcome>
Ciao,
Steve
<Arrivederci bello; BobF>
Re: Quarantine question 8/14/15
Should we still do the freshwater dip?
<Yes I would.... do re-read my SOP re these prophylactic procedures. B>
Grazie!
Best regards,
Steve
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Blonde Naso injured
8/7/14
Hello guys, thank you for the great website! I need Your help, I have an
8foot long 350g system with
Some community fish. My very long time resident Of 5 years a male blonde
Naso about 10 inches
Has a nasty scrape on his left side that looks
Like he ran into some live rock.
<Agreed... a mechanical injury... that appears infected, and getting
worse>
Now it won't eat
Still swims fine, but I'm very concerned. This guys
Has been with me a long time. Water is perfect and
Could really use some advice
<I'd be trying an antibiotic immersion bath... a few tens of minutes...
system water, diluted with freshwater a few thousandths of spg (to aid
absorption)... Furan compound/s... Nitrofurazone my choice... two nets
and help to catch... WATCH your hands, arms around this fish... haste
makes waste and possible nasty gash/es. See Ed Noga's works, WWM for
more; or write back.
Bob Fenner>
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Sick Naso in QT... Rdg. really; re Crypt,
med.s that don't work, N. lituratus hlth f's
6/4/14
Hello everyone at wetwebmedia.com!!! I love your site and really
appreciate the help you offer!!
<Ahh, greetings Marco>
I bought a Naso tang after I unfortunately lost my blonde Naso a few
days after putting him in the Display tank. The new Naso came from the
LFS with a mild case of Ich
<Of which they are VERY prone>
and I put him in my quarantine tank and started treating with
Ich attack by Kordon.
<Mmm; do see my comments. Though an old time friend owned and ran the
company... and a new younger one of forty years acquaintance does now;
this product and all "herbals" I'm aware of have efficacy troubles in
"real world" settings. What to state: They rarely work>
The fish was doing great, there are no white spots left on it's body
<Umm; they just cycled off... will be back... PLEASE read on WWM re
Cryptocaryon; AND FAQs on Cures that work>
but yesterday I noticed it's stomach looked rather small, "pinched" and
it's appetite decreased.
<Very common that stressed, and medicated Tangs (Acanthuroids period;
and some other fish groups) lose their stomach fauna... and DO have to
eat almost continuously... Brown Algae (macro) a giant plus... ALL this
is gone over and over; archived on WWM>
Today it wont even come out of it's hiding spot. The tank is a
50 gallon.
<Only for quarantine I take it... See WWM re Naso lituratus... period>
Water parameters are:
Ammonia: zero
Nitrites: zero
Nitrates: zero
Temp: 79.9
Alk: 10
The only thing that I did yesterday was treating the tank with PraziPro
and a 20% water change along with the Ich attack recommended dose.
Is there anything I can do to help the fish.
<All sorts... first off; I'd likely make the executive decision to
return this fish to the main/display system... as this is already
infested... and "fight the Ich" there... Per:
http://wetwebmedia.com/parasittkfaq2.htm
and the linked files at top in this series... till you can recite a plan
of action>
I feed him Formula 2 pellets, Nori soaked in Selcon, Rod's food
(herbivore preparation) and red seaweed soaked in Selcon and Garlic
extreme.
<Good>
Thanks in advance and my best wishes to the crew.
<Welcome... do the reading and if anything is unclear or incomplete,
please write back. Bob Fenner>
Re: Sick Naso in QT
6/4/14
Thank you very much Bob for the advice. Yes, the 50 gallon tank is a
quarantine tank only, my main tank is 180 gallon.
<Ah good>
The fish is in real trouble now. After I finished typing my previous
question to you, I went to check on the fish and he was floating around
almost dead. I must admit I freaked out and after contemplating the
possibility of having accidentally poisoned him by using Ich attack and
PraziPro at the same time,
<Mmm; also... Tangs/Acanthurids NEED high dissolved oxygen... not easy
to do in a 50>
I got some water from the display tank into a bucket and very gently put
the fish in it with an air stone for aeration. The fish is still alive
and trying to swim but his body is arched and only moves his lateral
fins. Is this it for my fish? Is there anything at all that I can do for
him?
<Too much to relate, re-key...>
Thanks again!!!
<The reading... and quick/pronto! BobF>
Re: Naso Tang
6/8/14
Thank you for info
<Welcome. B>
Burned Naso; rdg.
2/26/14
Hello. My name is Marco and yesterday I received a Blonde Naso Tang and
a small goby from liveaquaria.com. There was an issue with
shipping that delayed the delivery for 5 hours.
<Oh... too long in the bag... I do hope you read, used the commercial
acclimation SOP posted on WWM... I see below... nope... Ammonia
burned... need/ed to drip matched pH water on till the ammonia was
flushed out of the specimen>
After getting my fish, I acclimated them using the drip method for about 2
hours until S.G. and ph in the bucket was almost a perfect match with
the water in the quarantine tank. Both fishes were looking very good,
the Naso was swimming all over the place and grazing on the live rock.
This morning the Naso does not look as good as he did last night. His
coloration is rather dark with a couple of grey spots near the gill area
on his right side, the caudal fin is not "opened" (for lack of a better
word) as it was last night. He ate some Nori algae soaked in Selcon but
he looks a little weak.
<Shouldn't have offered food this soon>
I should probably mention that about 1 month ago we had a Naso Tang that
we tried to "rescue" from the LFS since he was losing weight and by the
time we bought him he was weak and he died a few days later from what I
thought was HLL disease and also we have kept a Bicolor Blenny in there
for 2 months now and he is doing great.
Water parameters are:
Ammonia: 0 ppm
Nitrites: 0 ppm
Nitrates: 0 ppm
<? How rendered thus?>
Ca: 420 ppm
Mg: 1350 ppm
Alk: 11 dKH
Salinity: 1.025 ppt <Not the right units>
My question is. Is there something I am missing?
<As stated above>
Something I don't know that is particularly important to pay attention
to when keeping Naso Tangs? Or is this "normal" coloration and behavior
for a new fish of this species?
Thanks for your time and advice. I hope you have a great rest of the
week.
If you need pictures or any other info please let me know.
<Let's take my time to refer you: Read here:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/acclimppt1.htm
Bob Fenner>
Naso Tang discoloration, loss
1/28/14
Good Morning Mr. Fenner :)
<Tomasz>
How are You?
<Fine; thank you>
Long time since I wrote to you.
I have two questions.
First one - in annex i send photo Naso tang with some strange white spot
on her belly. What is this?
<Either natural coloration (a lack thereof), or evidence of some sort/s
of stress.>
Some bacteria, parasite or maybe something else.
<Something else; not pathogenic. Time going by, good conditions,
nutrition will find this area coloring up>
This is not the first fish who looks like this.
I do not understand, swims 2 months or longer and on the next day he
died and it looks like the picture.
Can You tell what it is?
<Again: "Stress"... something, perhaps some one in the system
bothering it... Could it have been stung by a Cnidarian/"Coral"?>
Second question is, can You tell me how distinguish sex in the
Moorish Idol ?
<Only when I see them in pairs or groups... males are slightly larger,
more pointed unpaired fins... Otherwise; just looking at individuals, or
immature specimens... could be either>
I would like to keep them in pairs.
<Not easily done; but then again; not impossible. Look for "Coral"
magazine in what language/s you understand best (Deutschen, Italiano,
English) for some very nice articles written on Zanclus husbandry a few
years back>
Thanks my Friend for the advice.
Tomasz
<Cheers, Bob Fenner>
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MHLLE question 2/27/13
Hey everybody,
I am so glad I found WWM. What an invaluable resource! You
are now the only place I go for anything saltwater related. There
is so much misinformation on the web, its mind boggling. Now to my
question. After searching your forums, it seems that my large Naso
may be suffering from MHLLE. I have read every thread you have on
this and have followed all recommendations, but I feel like it might be
progressing, thereby making me wonder if I have it identified correctly.
<This looks more like something viral... growing out of neuromasts about
the head>
Attached is a picture of his head. It started out as a couple
small “pimples,” but progressed rather rapidly. It seems like
within a matter of a few days, it went from a few pimples to warts.
Now it looks like masses and getting some holes. I am concerned
that it seems to be progressing on one side and not the other.
I have read that MHLLE is bilateral. This started out as
bilateral (with a preference for one side), but one side seems to have
cleared up while the other is getting worse.
When I initially noticed the bumps (within a day or two of them
appearing), I inquired at the LFS and was told that it was probably
MHLLE and was instructed to treat with Metro in his food.
<Mmm, won't help here>
I did this for a few days in his pellets until he quit eating pellets, I
assume because of the taste.
After I found someone who knew what they were talking about and they
identified it as a nutritional deficiency and not a parasite or
protozoa, I changed his diet and quit the Metro (he had been on Metro
for 5 days). I got some NLS pellets and Ocean Nutrition seaweed
with garlic. He wasn’t interested in the pellets, but would devour
the seaweed and come back for more.
Then I found your site and read every thread you have on MHLLE. I
felt good that I had obtained the NLS pellets, and also went and got
some Nori and Selcon. He still wouldn’t eat the NLS but loved the
Nori and Selcon.
A little history: I ordered this tang sight unseen about 3 months ago
from the LFS. I had a 10g QT set up and ready to go and when he
came in. He was supposed to be about 3”, but he was almost 7”
long. Much too large for my QT system so I had to make the call to
acclimate and add to the display since it was late and there wasn’t a
local store open to get a bigger QT. I wasn’t too worried as the
tank was new (2 months without any fish) and he was the only fish in
there. My new system is 400g and will ultimately be a reef setup,
although it is now mostly LR (500lbs) and a few mushrooms. The
tank had been running fishless for 2 months prior to adding the Naso.
It had already cycled. The ammonia was 0, the nitrites 0, nitrates
5-10 using API test kit (the colors look the same to me on the 5 and
10), phosphates about .05 using Elos test kit. Ph 8.0-8.1, water
temp 77F, salt mix Red Sea Coral Pro (1.025), RO/DI water testing zero
TDS,
Marineland Black Diamond carbon, Super Reef Octopus 5000 skimmer, 800
micron filter socks, and LED lighting.
The fish was fine for the first 2 months. When I saw no signs of
disease, I started to add new fish that I had acquired and had waiting
in QT. They were all added over several weeks to give the system a
chance to catch up. New additions were: a yellow tang and a purple
tang (3”), a Hippo tang (5”), a school of Banggai Cardinals (8), a
school of Lyretail Anthias (8). The whole tank was very
harmonious.
For the first couple of months, the Naso only really showed an interest
in PE Mysis shrimp. After finding out that it might be a
nutritional deficiency, I cut out the PE and tried to get him onto
pellets and seaweed. About that time, I also acquired a Blue Jaw
Trigger from a friend (6”). This fish was very high energy.
He was never aggressive towards other fish, but at feeding time, he
would charge right through the crowd to get his portion and everybody
else’s. This would sometimes make the Naso shy away. I don’t
know if this could be causing stress to the Naso and be a contributing
factor.
<Not likely much>
The Naso has not had any PE Mysis shrimp in 2 weeks and has been eating
Selcon soaked Nori every day for the last 3 days. He is starting
to warm up to the NLS pellets and eats 4-5 1mm pellets at feeding time
(2-3 times a day). He spits out the 2mm pellets. He has been
eating the pellets for 3 days. I think he would eat the Nori
continuously if I gave it to him. That is all he begs for.
My question is: does this look like MHLLE, even though it isn’t
bilateral?
<It does not>
Is it common for it to progress for a bit once nutrition is corrected,
before it starts to reverse? I feel like my water quality is good.
My RedOx is consistently between 350-400. I do 10% water changes
every other week. I had been running carbon but just removed it
today after I felt sure any Metro that was in the water was gone.
I have read on your site that carbon could contribute. I will now
run without carbon for a bit. I also added Phoslock to remove any
remaining phosphates.
<Mmm, I'd allow some HPO4 here; not use chemical filtrant/s>
I just want to feel confident that I have identified the problem
correctly and that I am treating appropriately to give him the best
chance. Thanks for all that you do. James
<T'were it me/mine, I'd continue as you have, and add some purposeful
cleaners here. Likely Lysmata species. Hopefully their presence will tip
the balance and stir your Naso to self-improvement. Bob Fenner>
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Asymmetric white streaks on new blonde Naso.
2/6/13
Hi WWM crew,
I purchased an apparently healthy blonde Naso one week ago.
After a few days in hiding in the QT
<Shouldn't hide... but need large volumes... likely damaged itself>
he comes out to eat Mysis, Nori, and gel food. Yesterday I noticed
some white streaking on his left side. I am somewhat sure
that it is not stress markings, due to the asymmetry of the marks,
although I have also noticed some stress marking at times as well.
I tried to take some photos which I have attached. Although they
are a bit blurry (tangs swim fast!)
the markings can be made out in the photos. They are not raised, as far
as I can tell.
I have checked out the disease sections on your site, and I cannot
determine what this might be. Any ideas? Does this fish
require treatment of some sort?
Thank you for your help!
Bruce
<No treatment, as injuries are the cause here and med.s will only
compromise water quality. I'd move this fish dip/bathing it, to the
main/display tank. See WWM re dips/baths. Bob Fenner>
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Naso Tang loss
4/11/12
Hello WetWebMedia Crew!
<Toby>
I ordered and received a Naso Tang based on our
previous conversation. The Naso was about
6"-7"
<Mmm, a bit too large to be caught wild, shipped... too small and
too large specimens of all species have a hard/er time adapting to
captive conditions... 3-5 inches standard length is about "the
best" range for Naso lituratus>
and doing great for the last 9 weeks. I say was doing great
because he died last night. There were absolutely no physical
signs and anything wrong and the water parameters were checked
often.
<Ah yes... an anomalous, mysterious loss...>
Tank Param.s
Sg: 1.024
Ammonia: 0
Nitrites: 0
Nitrates: 10-20 (Working on getting them lower).
Tankmates:
7" Blue Hippo
4" Foxface Lo
(2) 1.5" Osc. Clowns
Blue Linckia Sea Star
(2) 1.5" Blue Green Chromis
<In how large a system? Six foot long plus I hope/trust>
The Naso ate like a pig everyday. I fed the tank a small amount
early in the morning before I left for work and again at night around
7:00 pm. I feed New Life Spectrum pellets as well as food made by
our local Marine Fish club which contains all kinds of variety. I
also put sheets of Nori in the tank for everyone to eat 2-3 times per
week.
What could have caused the Naso to go from Mr. Personality to dead in
two days?
<"Cumulative stress"... not a satisfying
descriptor likely, but the most likely and apt>
I should note that during his last day and a half, he just stayed in
corner of the tank except last night before he died, he ventured out a
little which made me think it was just a hunger strike over something
that upset him. There was also something strange with his upper
teeth, they were showing like they were overgrown, however that was the
case since I got him. Didn't seem to interfere with him
eating at all.
Any insights? I've read and understand that sometimes fish
just die, but I don't like losing any animal like this.
Thanks
Toby
<Do read here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/nasolsel.htm
and the linked files above. Bob Fenner>
Blonde Naso Tang, frozen foods 11/16/11
Beautiful fish about 7" 220 gal tank, frozen brine shrimp cube
slipped from my hand tang took cube hole appeared stressed afterward
died during the night, was the death possible caused from frozen
cube?
<Appears so. I advocate soaking such frozen foods in freshwater to
defrost and rinse out unwanted soluble nutrient... limiting
eutrophication. Bob Fenner>
Re: Blonde Naso Tang, frozen foods prep.
11/16/11
Thank-you
<Welcome. BobF>
sick Naso tang - 2/9/11
Greetings, I need some help here, please. My 4 yr. old Naso tang had a
bacterial infection 2 weeks ago. Cloudy eyes, grey, fuzzy patches on
body, rapid gill movement.
She's in a 300 gallon tank, temp, steady 78, ammonia zero, nitrates
10. I accidentally left the aquarium lights on all evening while
running errands.
The entire house was pitch black and she was racing around frantically
when I got home, she was very stressed out.
<Can happen>
I turned off the tank light, added soft room light, all seemed well an
hour later. Two days later, she had black Ich, cloudy eyes, rapid gill
movement, not eating. She's had that very same thing 3 years ago
due to stress while moving to a new tank. QT'd her in Maracyn
2,
in a 40 gallon Rubbermaid as I learned from your book, with lots of
aeration, and she was fine within 5 days. So I did the same for her
this time, adding liquid baby vitamins as well. Only now, she's not
recovering at all. She hasn't eaten in a week, getting thin around
the head and body.
All other symptoms have gone. Eyes are clear, black Ich gone, no grey
fuzzy patches on skin, fins and tail are great. The only symptom left
is the rapid gill movement, and zero interest in food. A FW dip
doesn't seem to be the answer here, and it would stress her out
even more....she's huge, no room in a standard 5 gallon bucket for
a dip. What else do you suggest?
Back in the main tank?
<Yes; with vitamins/supplements including feeding stimulant
added/soaked into foods>
The only other fish in there are a 10" tassel file, and 2 gobies.
No stress there, they all get along.
Thank you in advance.
Ape.
<Welcome. Bob Fenner>
Naso Tang 1/30/11
My Naso Tang has fleshy bumps on it's head. He
looks very sick. I treated the tank for Ich once and there was no
change. He is kind of just trying to stay afloat between the air pump
and algae skimmer
magnet. Please help. Thank you.
Julia
<Julia, there is no useful data here at all. Please write back with
a description of your system incl. tankmates & sizes, parameters,
what treatments have been added when and one or more photos as detailed
here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/wwmadminsubwebindex/question_page.htm.
Thank you, Simon>
Naso death 10/14/10
Hi crew,
<Karina>
Unfortunately, I am writing under tragic circumstances. I'm hoping
you'll be able to enlighten me. I recently lost my blonde Naso tang
under rather mysterious circumstances.
<Does happen>
I have a 180 gallon reef with a 55 gallon sump/refugium. My tank has
been up for 2 years, spg 1.026,
ammonia 0, nitrite 0, nitrate 15. The contents are from a previous 55
gallon that was set up for 6 years before being transferred. I
haven't tested any other parameters for a while. I do weekly 30
gallon water
changes. I had the Naso for about a year. I got it because I had a
dreadful Dictyota problem, and nothing would eat it but this little
guy.
What an amazing job it did, and it quickly became my favorite fish. A
few days ago, I noticed that it had a small brown spot on the base of
it's tail. I didn't think much of it. I attributed it to a
mechanical injury of some kind. The next day, the spot had spread to
half of the fish's body. It was just brown, no peeling or loss of
scales. Blondie was still eating prepared foods and picking off the
rocks though, and I had no prepared sea water to set up a hospital
tank. The third day, I found it wedged between two rocks, dead as a
doornail. The brown completely covered one side of it's body. Very
sad day. Now I'm trying to find the culprit. I've only recently
discovered that sea urchins are poisonous. I found a small one when I
first set up the 55 all those years ago. It was about the size of a
dime. Now it's about the size of a golf ball, and has pink pointy
tips. It's always on the glass though, I rarely see it among the
rocks. Could the Naso have accidentally swam into the urchin and been
poisoned?
<Mmm, not likely>
I'm asking so I know whether it would be smart to remove it. Other
inhabitants are a pair of black Ocellaris clowns, a canary wrasse,
melanurus wrasse, Tailspot blenny, sunburst Anthias, and a blotched
Hawkfish. I really don't know, aside from the urchin, what
could've caused this rapid demise. All my other
fish are perfectly fine. Please share your thoughts and ideas.
Thanks,
Karina
<Nothing "jumps out" as a probable cause here Karina... to
use your adverb, unfortunately this genus at times appears to die
mysteriously... From?
Stress? I would state that "on average", specimens/species of
Naso kept in larger systems "die less often mysteriously",
have greater survival, longer life times in captivity. Bob
Fenner>
Naso Tang with White Blotches - 6/11/10
Bob,
<Simon with you today Brian>
I acquired a Blond Naso Tang that has white blotches on its body.
I have QT'd the fish for over a week now and they have not
changed at all.
<Mmm>
The blotches are not raised, they have no texture, and the fish
is eating, breathing, and seems healthy. The marks don't go
away, don't get worse, but they don't get better
either.
<Yes, I see these>
I have attached a picture for you. I have yet to medicate,
copper, or do anything as I don't know what I am dealing
with.
<Well done.. no treatment required here>
Any thoughts?
<Yes. These look like stress marks/ colouration to me.. is the
fish in a confined space?. how is your water quality? Nitrates?
Are there many or aggressive tankmates? These marks should
disappear with improved conditions.. namely lots of roaming
space, high turbulent water flow & RedOx for this
fish>
Thank you for your time. I appreciate your site, Brian
<No problem Brian, Simon>
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Re: Naso Tang with White Blotches -
6/11/10
Simon,
<Brian>
Right now he is in a 10 Gallon QT with rock and little water
flow.
<There you go!>
His prior owner had him in a 55 gallon tank <Ditto. Far too
small> and I would question the water
quality. <Double ditto>. I plan to put him in a 180 gallon
reef tank <Much better> with lots of flow, but
wanted to QT him until I knew what the marks were and rule out
disease.
<All fishes should be quarantined anyway>
Since he had the marks in his previous tank, I didn't want to
take chances.
Do you think I should just put him in the 180 now, or QT him for
another week or two?
<I would go at least two weeks here, maybe three but can't
you get a bigger QT tank? A 10 gallon QT for a 180 is inadequate
IMO. You would be better off procuring a second hand 55 for
probably pennies somewhere>
He has shown no signs of disease, but it has only been a week.
<Indeed. I would prolong this period in a larger QT with some
vigorous circulation (plus an airstone) and see how he responds.
Block out the sides and back of the QT tank with some dark paper or
something so he does not
feel 'exposed'.>
Thanks again,
<It's a pleasure to help people and fish alike!>
Brian
<Simon> |
16/02/10 Naso Tang disease
Hey guys
<Hello Antonis>
just found this Naso tang in one crappy LFS and I felt so sorry
about him when I realised that the LFS didn't know what was
wrong with it or how to treat it.
<Have you left this fish in the shop or taken it home? Never
take sympathy on a fish, it just encourages shops to peddle bad
specimens>
He told me I could have him for 15eur if I knew how to treat this
poor fella and I so much want to rescue him if I can with your
help of course! I don't know the guys parameters
<it would be very useful to find out>
but I know that the Tang has been this way for almost 2 weeks and
these reddish/whitish ''wound'' marks have gotten
bigger since he got him although he fed him at the time I was
there and the Tang was eating like a pig. I hope you can help my
when you look at the pics champs.
<Are these wounds or lumps? This looks like Lymphocystis to
me, not particularly concerning. Read here:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/lymphfaqs.htm. Nothing you can do if
it is, the fish should recover on it's own without medication
if good care is taken of it>
Thank you very much,
<No problem>
I hope for your prompt reply, if you need anything else please
just ask,
<Do let us know the water test results, with the fruits of
your research into this>
Antonis
<Cheers, Simon>
Re: 16/02/10 Naso Tang disease
Thank you very much Simon for your prompt reply :o)
<No problem Antonis>
No of course I haven't taken it home with me it's still
at the LFS. I just thought to take some action in order for this
fella to recover because the man at the LFS is over 60 years old
and I don't think he can use the internet.
<Heee! Like my mother in law!>
And yes these were lumps not wounds. The spots were growing on
top of the surface of it's tail and the colour was mainly
white with a bit pink/red in the middle as you can see from the
pics and the white stuff's appearance was like fungus I
think!
<Yes, this does sound like Lympho to me. Search re. and see if
the images coming back match! Simon>
|
|
Re: 16/02/10 Naso Tang disease
2/16/10
<Hello Antonis>
I think so.
<Yes, me too>
Although most pics I can find the lumps are mostly white and not
reddish like the Naso I showed you.
<They do go this pinkish colour sometimes>
Why is it getting bigger though? Poor water conditions?
<I do think it is related to poor water quality, as many
things are. Improved conditions should see a halting and reversal
of this. Simon>
Re: 16/02/10 Naso Tang disease
It can clear entirely Simon?
<Yes it can Antonis. Good luck>
|
Naso Tang And Aiptasia, hlth. and control
1/12/10
<Hello Michele>
We need help with a Naso tang that may not be with us for long.
<Oh? Let's hope not.>
Tank stats: 250 gallon LPS/SPS reef with an additional 400 gallons of
supporting tanks (fuge, sump, frag tank, etc.).
<Sounds like a great system.>
Inhabitants are 7 inch Naso tang, 7 inch Rabbitfish, 5 inch Yellow
tang, and pair of Ocellaris
clowns. All fish have been together for over 3 years and exhibit no
apparent aggression toward each other. Ammonia/nitrites/nitrates are
zero, pH 8, SP 1.025, and temperature 78 normally.
<Sounds good.>
Currently, we probably only due <do> a water change of about 10
percent every 3 to 4 weeks b/c everything always tests zero and we feel
like we have a low bioload for 650 gallons.
<Water quality and test results are two different subjects. You
mention no use of a protein skimmer and is one component very
necessary for improving water quality, especially with keeping
sensitive tangs.>
Tank has been set up for about 2 1/2 years.
Tank has been unremarkable except for the following issues. We fought a
Dinoflagellate problem about 8 or 10 months ago and we currently have
an Aiptasia problem. Aiptasia X will keep them in check, but we have
not been able to completely eradicate them.
<Ah, the scorn of many a reef keeper and sometimes difficult to
eradicate.>
Aiptasia X has not been used in the tank in the last few weeks. About
one month ago we purchased a Copperband Butterflyfish. After an
abbreviated QT (2 weeks) we introduced the fish (was bright and eating
commercial food as well as picking at rock). Shortly after introduction
the Yellow tang showed aggression and left a lesion on the side of the
Butterflyfish (bite, tang, not sure). We split the fish, but the
butterfly died shortly thereafter. We assumed it was from stress and
trauma from the Yellow tang, but now I'm worried it was disease b/c
of the shortened QT and the sick Naso. One additional issue is
temperature. Due to the current cold climate (single digits with a wind
chill below zero...brrr!!!) our temperature dropped to 75 about a week
ago. We insulated the pipes (they run below the house to the supporting
tanks in a separate room) and got the temperature back up to 78. Would
a temperature change of 3 degrees over a few days be enough for a
problem?
<Unlikely over a three day span.>
So the problem: Our Naso tang had an acute onset of lethargy and weight
loss about 3 days ago. She sits on the bottom of the tank with a rapid
respiration rate. She has profound weight loss, but no other apparent
external lesions.
<Mmm, not good.>
She will occasionally swim to the other side of the tank and back, but
typically just rests on the bottom of the tank. The other fish hover
close by, but don't seem to be doing any harm other than
psychological. It looks like they are providing comfort to their sick
tankmate, but I realize it's nature saying "hmm, weak fish,
let's kill it." She shows minimal interest in eating. She did
possibly eat a flake or two soaked in Selcon last night. Typical diet
is a mixture of seafood treats, Nori sheets, Spectrum pellets, and
flake.
So, we are torn on what to do. Should we separate her into a hospital
tank for treatment? I see nothing wrong except the weight loss and
respiratory rate, so I don't what I would be treating
for...bacterial infection, internal parasite???
<Best not to treat until a positive diagnosis can be made.>
I think moving her would provide more stress, but we are open to
suggestions. Should we try and separate the Rabbitfish and Yellow tang
to the other side of the tank to give her time to possibly heal? We
have searched for any possible contaminants to the tank with no
ideas.
<I would discontinue the use of Aiptasia X for the time being.
I've heard/read articles that some fish, mostly blennies have
negative reactions to this product if ingested.
My understanding of Aiptasia X is that the active ingredients are
suspended in some kind of 'Micella'
which is like a liquid capsule and only after ingested by the anemone
it becomes free.
This leads me to believe it could have adverse reactions to fish but I
have no documented proof of that. I'm hoping Bob and/or other crew
members might comment here as well.>
The other fish look fine, but I suppose the Naso would be the most
susceptible fish to disease of the ones we have.
<Yes. What types of food was your Naso eating. Proper nutrition goes
a long way in disease prevention by increasing the fishes immunity
level. The New Life Spectrum Pellets are an excellent nutritional
source of food and is the only food I feed/use. Do visit, read, and
look at the video at their site. http://nlsfishfood.com/ >
I know it's hard to make a diagnosis without seeing the fish or our
system, but if anything comes to mind please let us know or refer us
where to read.
<Yes, do read here and linked files in the header.
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/naso_lituratus.htm >
On a separate note, we are desperately trying to get rid of the
Aiptasia. The Aiptasia X has helped, but not eradicated the
problem.
We were using so much of it, we were concerned it might affect our
water quality! We would like to introduce a fish (removing Yellow tang
first) that would eat them, but I'm not sure if that's
possible. I'm hesitant to try another Copperband with their
sensitive history and our bad story. We had considered a Raccoon
Butterflyfish and then moving it to another tank before it developed an
affinity for the SPS. I've read the FAQs and articles on
Butterflyfish and I know they may eat Aiptasia, but I'm not sure if
they have a preference for the Aiptasia and would leave corals alone
until the Aiptasia are gone or if they would just mow down all corals
and Aiptasia together. Perhaps it's based on the individual fish
and you can't give a definitive answer on that one.
<The Berghia Nudibranch is known to consume Aiptasia and you may
want to read here regarding this.
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/nudiaipfaqs.htm>
Thank you for providing a wonderful website and answering
everyone's questions! If I have missed something in the FAQs
(I'm sure I have) please refer me where to read. The whole reason
we have the 250 is because we bought this Naso on an impulse purchase 3
1/2 years ago.
When we realized she was totally inappropriate for our 90 gallon, we
started making plans for the 250 and moved her the next year. We are
going to be so sad to lose her!!!
<Do read re above and do increase your water change frequency. Tangs
of this genus are very demanding of high water quality and here is
where a good efficient skimmer will help, along with the use of a
chemical media such as Chemipure. And lets hope you will not lose your
Naso. James (Salty Dog)>
Michele
Re Naso Tang And Aiptasia/Health And Control
1/12/10
James,
<Michele>
Thanks for the quick reply.
<You're welcome.>
I will read where referred. To answer your questions...Yes, we use a
protein skimmer and Chemipure.
<May I ask which brand name and model of skimmer? Do keep in mind
that you are skimming 600+ gallons of water and not 250, providing all
of your systems are tied together.>
We also feed New Life Spectrum Pellets as the main food with flake,
Nori sheets, and assorted seafood bites for treats.
<Great!>
On further examination of the tang, she has a slight tattering to her
dorsal and caudal fins, so I'm wondering if we are dealing with a
bacterial infection such as Finrot which I know goes back to water
quality! We had already done as you suggested and stopped the Aiptasia
X about a month ago because we were concerned over affecting water
quality with the huge amount we had been using.
Thanks for the help...fingers crossed for her, but it doesn't look
good!
<If you could send a couple of pics it may help us identify the
problem.
If I cannot help you here, Mr. Fenner (The Big Fish) is much more
educated on disease then I, and I'm sure he would be more
than happy to look at the pics for you and offer some help and/or
suggestions. <<Ok. RMF>>
James (Salty Dog)>
Michele
Re Naso Tang And Aiptasia/Health And Control
1/13/10
<Hello Michele>
Sadly the tang had died by last night.
<Sorry to hear.>
We still saw no external marks on her, but we didn't post her.
Although I'm a vet, I would have no idea about fish!
<Understandable.>
We have an <Reeflo> Orka protein skimmer and I'm unsure of
the model, but hubby assures me it is rated for the 650 gallons.
<Am familiar and is manufactured by Sequence, and I might add, a
very, very, good skimmer.>
We get about one gallon of skimmate a week.
<Wowsa, but not surprising coming from that unit.>
Hopefully we will never know what happened to her, but I have a bad
feeling it will be another fish soon!
My biggest worry is that the Copperband introduced something to the
system last month. Hopefully not.
<I'm keeping my fingers crossed for you, but keep in mind that
even with the best systems, survival is not guaranteed, and due in part
to the enormous stress the fish go through from the reef to your tank.
You have a system that should easily sustain most marine life providing
they are healthy to begin with, and is why selection is an important
facet of this hobby.>
Thanks for your comments as always.
Love the site!
<Thank you, and you are most welcome. James (Salty Dog)>
Michele
Urgent Help re: Naso Tang --
11/02/09
Hi! Mark from the Philippines here.
<BobF in sunny S. Cal.>
I've always been a fan of your site as it's been a really good
reference for me. However, due to the urgency of the situation, I think
I need more personalized help.
I have a 3 year old blonde Naso tang in my 180g reef that suddenly
stopped eating today. What's weird is that he suddenly appears
really really thin today. He's breathing rapidly and is staying put
in a low flow area.
Yesterday he was his usual self, swimming everywhere, hogging all the
food.
He looks really bad and I'm not sure if he'll make it to
tomorrow.
<MOVE this fish Mark... Now!>
He looks perfectly normal, no wounds, etc. Just really really suddenly
thin.
He's my favorite fish, very fond of people and follows everyone
around the aquarium. I even hand feed him from time to time.
Recently, I've converted to an all softies reef and been stocking
up on corals. The other day, I added a few Brittlestars, and he started
nipping at one's legs. That's the only thing I've noticed
him do differently.
<Something this fish either has eaten or the new organisms are
releasing into the water is poisoning it... Again, it needs to go
elsewhere, stat!>
I'm lightly stocked, have a blue tang, 2 clownfish, a royal gramma,
and the Naso. All of them are around 3 years old so all of them are
quite large.
All the other fish and corals are okay. Water parameters are okay.
Any ideas what it could be? And any medication, dips I can do?
Thanks!
<Move it, move it. Bob Fenner>
Re: Urgent Help re: Naso Tang -- 11/02/09
Thanks for the quick response Bob
<I sensed the urgency>
It's already 12:30am in this part of the world. The lights just
went out a couple of hours ago. Should I turn the lights back on and
catch him now? He sleeps in a cave and I'm definite I won't be
able to catch him with the lights off.
<I would remove this fish now>
Also, all the shops are closed, and I can't get any medication.
<No medication necessary>
That being said, what do I need to do once he's in the QT? Any
specific medication?
Thanks again!
<None... just place this fish in a clean, large, established system.
BobF>
Re: Urgent Help re: Naso Tang -- 11/02/09
Hi Bob!
Sorry, just want to explain myself as it may sound odd that I know the
urgency of the situation, but then suddenly hesitating regarding the
transfer.
My main concern here is that waking him up after a few hours of sleep
then chasing him around the tank might stress him out and cause more
harm than good?
<Watch your hands, but remove this fish... w/o turning the lights on
if you can. B>
Re: Urgent Help re: Naso Tang -- 11/02/09
Hi Bob
Just finished moving the fish. When I turned on the lights he was
resting on the sand almost motionless.... not a good sign.
<Actually Mark... this is what they do... at night, in the wild.
Larger Nasos are collected during the night in just such a fashion. Not
to worry>
He didn't put up a fight as I easily netted him on the 2nd try.
<Good>
He's now in a 20g tank, swimming around. Just turned the lights
off. Hope he gets a good rest.
<... I fear I'm not being clear. This fish NEEDS to be put in
another six foot, plus length system. NOT in a small body of
water>
Still hoping for the best...
Thanks again,
Mark
<BobF>
Re: Urgent Help re: Naso Tang -- 11/02/09
Actually Bob, right now I don't have many options. The 20g spare
tank is the only place I can transfer him now.
I'll ask around fellow reefers who have large tanks tomorrow who
can hold on to him and hopefully nurse him back to health.
I can't thank you enough for your help and speedy replies...
<Welcome. Sleep tight. B>
re: Urgent Help re: Naso Tang
Got it! Thanks! I'll keep you posted!
<Real good. B>
Re: Urgent Help re: Naso Tang -- 11/03/09
Our Blue Tang has stopped eating today as well. I'm trying my best
to remove it from the tank. I feel really disheartened...
<I would remove all fish life from this system. ASAP>
From what I've read, I think it could be flukes. Symptoms include
abrupt cessation of feeding, and the eyes do look a bit cloudy.
If they are indeed flukes, could they have been transferred to the tank
by the new corals?
<Mmm, unlikely these are flukes... affecting so many species of
fishes...
They tend to be... Well, read here:
http://wetwebmedia.com/fshwrmdisflukef.htm
BobF>
Re: Urgent Help re: Naso Tang
11/3/09
Hi Bob,
<Mark>
When I woke up today, the fish was gone...
<Ahhh>
Scary how fast it deteriorated...
Thanks again,
Mark
<BobF>
Black mark on Naso tang?
Hello crew!
<Hi there Terry>
I have a Naso tang which has a mark on his side which looks like
a permanent marker,
<Good description>
I know it is not Paravortex, and none of my other fish have any
spots, tank pars are normal, it is a 150 FOWLR. I was wondering
if it may be from being stung by the Foxface?
<Mmm, not likely this sort of mark...>
He seems normal, and eating well but if this is a disease I would
like to get a jump start on it, this is the best pic. I could
get.
Thanks in advance,
Terry
<Have seen these sort of blems many times... Are bruises of
sorts... usually clear themselves up over weeks to month's
time. No "treatment" suggested other than good care.
Cheers, Bob Fenner>
|
|
Blonde Naso, hlth., sel.
7/10/09
I've had my Naso for one week. She was beautiful. I have a 150
gallon tank and have a Snowflake Eel, Banana Wrasse, Fox Face, and 4
Damsels. My husband forgot to turn the lights on yesterday and when I
got home, she was dead laying on the sand and had a marble sized bulge
coming from her stomach. Do you know what this could be?
<This soon from acquisition... Most likely damage from
"needling" from collection (a practice to "let out"
air for more rapid ascent... rather than waiting, hauling up collection
buckets...) Had your store had this animal on hand for a period of time
before your acquisition? Better to wait, a good week... Bob
Fenner>
Thank you!
Alison Aquino-Sanchez
Blonde Naso Tang - ill/mouth 7/5/09
Good evening & Happy 4th of July,
<Now the morrow of the 6th... glad I stayed home with the
dogs>
I just upgraded my tank to a 150 gallon Elos XL120 tank... plenty
of live rock and coral.
I bought a Blonde Naso Tang... he had only been at the LFS for
24hr when I bought him.
<Mmm... two sides to an/the argument whether to leave such
fishes/species longer or no>
It's been 36hr since I got him home, and he hides under a
rock,
<Bad behavior>
is breathing quickly and today has developed a white fungus-like
material around his mouth.
<I see this in your pic>
I've searched Google and your site for help... any advice
would be much appreciated. I've also included a photo.
Thanks,
Zach
<Either has been "running" (more like swimming) into
rock, the aquarium sides... or something is brutalizing it in
your system... We could/might bandy back and forth re what else
is in your system, water quality,
history... but instead; read here:
http://wetwebmedia.com/nasoldis.htm
and the linked files above. Bob Fenner>
|
|
Re: Blonde Naso Tang - ill/mouth -
7/6/09
Hey Bob,
<Zach>
Thanks so much for your quick response.
<Certainly welcome>
The water parameters are all in great shape. The Blonde Naso is
one of the first fish I added to the tank. All of the other fish
are doing great and nobody has been terrorizing him at all.
Mostly I just have peaceful wrasses in with him. Once I added him
to the tank he instantly hid behind a rock and has pretty much
stayed back there.
<Mmm, frightened perhaps>
I called the LFS and they were very defensive about the condition
of the fish, saying the white stuff wasn't around his mouth
when they sold him to me.
<Likely not, but... why be defensive?>
But, it developed almost instantly and they had only had him 24
hours. Right now I'm just interested in saving this poor fish
as he hasn't eaten in 3 days and doesn't look well.
I've been dosing all food with garlic hoping this might help
his appetite. Can you think of any treatments I should try? Maybe
PraziPro?
Thanks again!
-Zach
<I would NOT treat this fish with "medicine/s"...
What temperature is the water? What nitrogenous waste levels
present? What re dissolved oxygen and ways to increase it? Do you
have another established system of size you could move this fish
to? I will stand by my previous speculation and say it likely
"bumped" into something/s... and the "owees"
on its face are resultant, leading to the poor behavior (is the
tank area very dark at night?)... BobF>
Re: Blonde Naso Tang - ill/mouth -
7/7/09
Wow, 2 responses from you. Wonderful! And thank you.
<Welcome>
Unfortunately my old tank is no longer around to transfer the
Blond Naso to. All of the rock in my new tank has been
established for years and I've yet to lose a fish (I bet you
hear that all the time. hah).
Temperature is a solid 78-79 degrees. Nitrates are <5. The ORP
is usually between 275-300.
<A bit low, but fine>
The tank is dark at night--I don't have a moonlight.
<Mmm, is it "so" dark... from there being no other
light in the surrounding outside room that the fishes might be
inclined to dash into the rock? The markings on the face of the
fish look so much like damage from such, or a
bristle worm>
Seems like your bump theory is a good one. I've never really
considered the moonlight anything but a way to watch the fish at
night--so it's interesting (and obvious) to think it could
actually help them see as well. Duh. I definitely won't treat
the tang with any medicines per your advice. Looks like I'll
just have to wait it out, huh? I bought the fish on Friday and
it's now Monday night and he still isn't eating.
<Try some brown algal food, perhaps Spectrum pellets>
Luckily he looks a bit chubby, so hopefully he can hold out a bit
longer. I bought him and 2 other tangs at once to
introduce them together.
<Oh!? What other species?>
I know tangs generally are less aggressive with each other when
introduced that way. If this Blond Naso doesn't
make it, would it be a bad idea to introduce a new one
immediately after in hopes of limiting the territorial stuff
Tangs do?
<Not likely a good idea; unless this system were much
larger... Hundreds of gallons>
Thanks x1,000,000
-Zach
<Welcome in kind. BobF>
Re: Blonde Naso Tang - ill/mouth
7/8/09
Yes, the tank is so dark that there really isn't any other
light seeping in. My old tank has a moonlight, but never really
thought about adding one to this new setup.
<I would at least have "some" light outside the tank
on during the time/s when the lights are all out on the
inside>
The other tangs I added with him were a Powder Blue and a Yellow
Tang. All were introduced together and I've yet to see any
hostility between any of them.
<Not always obvious...>
I've been putting seaweed in dipped in garlic and the other
two fish are eating it like crazy. Unfortunately the Naso
doesn't seem interested in the slightest.
Thanks again! You're a life saver.
<Read here: http://wetwebmedia.com/nasolfdg.htm
and the linked files above. BobF>
|
PraziPro - Naso health/treatment
-05/27/09 Mr. Fenner,
I ordered some PraziPro this morning. I thank you for your help
and it feels good to finally have the answers after all of my
research. However I now have another problem. My newest fish is
about a 5" Naso tang. When he arrived he had a white spot on
him. I took this spot as a simple shipping stress, and hoped it
would go away with proper feeding and water quality, however it
has spread. The spots are not Ich, and I do not see any texture
to them. They are simply spots of different shapes and sizes.
These were the pictures I sent to you earlier for identification.
I am sorry for the less than perfect quality. I am a college
student, and do not have a camera other than my phone. If you can
help me, or point me as to some possibilities of what this is and
treatment that would be safe to use with the PraziPro, it would
be very helpful. Thank you for your time, and I am sorry for the
confusing pictures without words, my previous e-mail somehow
disappeared.
<I am sorry, but Bob is out of the country with sporadic poor
net access. Your pics did not come through with this or your
previous email, if there was an email with pics it did not get
matched up. Can you send them along again? Thanks, Scott
V.>
Re: I thought fish ate worms not vice-versa!
5/28/2009
Bob,
<Terry>
Thank you for the help. I ordered some PraziPro this morning. It
feels good to finally know the correct treatment after so much
research. However, lo and behold it seems my newest fish, a
Naso tang also has another problem. When I received him be had
one of these spots, now several. I am going to send a picture I
took with my phone. I hope it is good enough quality. If you can
identify it. I would like to know how to treat it along with the
PraziPro I will be administering. He is eating very little, but
he is eating. These spots don't appear to have any texture,
just simply various sizes and shapes that appear to just be
bleached out. Any help is greatly appreciated.
<Mmm, can't tell what this is but the exposure to the
PraziPro won't hurt this fish... may help cure it.
BobF>
|
|
High nitrate's effects on Nasos skin? Naso Tang/Health
3/26/09
Hello,
<Hello Dee.>
I have recently began lowering my very high nitrate levels, I was
dangerously overfeeding my tank. My Nasos skin has gotten blotchy, kind
of looks like it's orange-peeled in texture along with dark grey
small patches. Her eyes & fins are all clear. Eats great, swims and
acts the same. If this is stress markings from the high nitrates,
what's a ballpark figure on how long before it clears up?
<Depends on how long before your "high" nitrate levels
drop to a safe range. It has been 5 days since these markings
first appeared. I have done large water changes in my 300 gallon tank.
Employed some activated carbon, Seachem's De-nitrate in filter bags
in the sump, next to the 40 gallon 'fuge. I will add some
Chaetomorpha to refugium tomorrow to help lower the nitrates even
more.
<A start.>
I feed less, water is much clearer now. I have removed the filter
sock,
<I'm not a fan of filter socks as they trap debris in the micron
size and the water is constantly flowing through this and creating high
nutrient levels.>
and employed Poly-Filter in the slot of the second chamber. I am too
afraid to post the nitrate numbers, your jaw would
hit the floor.
<Would have been better if you did post the numbers, gives us a
realistic idea of how high the levels really are.>
I am very upset, I should have tested weekly, I did not. My 8"
Naso is my special fish. No other inhabitants' skin is
affected, just hers. Can you please help my nerves with this one? With
consistent 15% water changes every other day for a week, then back to
my regular regiment of 10% a week, can I hope to see her skin condition
improve in time?
<Weekly water changes will help, but the use of a quality protein
skimmer will certainly speed up the process and further prevent
nitrates from rising provided an efficient skimmer, and one sized for
your tank is used. You mention nothing of using one so I'm
assuming you're not using one.>
I have read through the FAQ's, and have seen the above remedies
help in lowering nitrates.
<In your case, you would be better off using Chemi-Pure, a high
grade activated carbon combined with scavenging resins. In your size
tank, we would be looking at using six units of the product and to be
effective, the water needs to pass through the product, not around it.
Seriously, do consider purchasing a protein skimmer, will create much
better water quality for
your animals. Have you read here and related articles?
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/nitratesmar.htm>
Sadly, Dee.
<And I James, not being in Cozumel with Bob and Scott. Cheers.
James (Salty Dog)>
Re: High nitrate's effects on Nasos skin? Naso
Tang/Health 3/26/09
Fantastic feedback, thank you James. I have learned so much from your
responses to others.
<You're welcome.>
Okay, here's the nitrate numbers. It was at 200 last Sunday, yes,
you read that right.
<Yikes, what kind of test kit are you using that will read that
high? Is your kit measuring total nitrogen or NO3?>
After one water change, and added filter media, it went down to 80.
<A big improvement.>
The next day, another water change, it went down to 50, where it has
remained for the past 3 days, even with another water change.
<You are at a point now where you are importing more nutrients than
the skimmer/system can export.>
So sorry, I neglected to mention that I am running a ASM G1 skimmer,
and my LFS said I need more like a G3 instead for my sized system. He
suggested I run the skimmer "WET" .....he came over and
raised the tube with the black sponge around it higher, I now have less
foam. Do you agree that running it wet will help?
<I like to set up skimmers so the skimmate is on the dark side.
I'm thinking the skimmate your skimmer is producing now is
tinted more like tea. Your dealer is correct, the G1 will not do it,
and either will the G3 which is rated for 250 gallons max.
If you like this brand of skimmer, go with the G4 which is rated for up
to 350 gallons.>
If so, how long until I push the tube back down below the neck of the
skimmer?
<Let it run awhile, see what color and amount of skimmate you get
out of the tank in a day or two. If it is light in color, push the tube
down about 1/2", then evaluate again. When you get to a point
where the skimmate isn't any darker, then that is where I'd
leave it.>
I have seen that Chemi-Pure and am on my way out to purchase it right
now. I have your recommended dosage for my sized system, and will
get that plus more. How often should I change it out?
<Well, they say every six months, but I've never found that to
be true. With your present nutrient level, I'm thinking about
one month and with the next change, likely two months. It is important
to have some type of mechanical filter ahead of the Chemi Pure to
increase it's useful life.>
Salty Dog, thank you just isn't enough. This issue has caused daily
nosebleeds, I need help, and was just too afraid to put the numbers
here.
<We are here to help you Dee, not criticize you. We all have been
down that road before and have learned from our mistakes and/or lack of
knowledge.>
I have also read that adding a Mangrove plant in the 'fuge will
help, as well. I am searching for one.
<Put your money toward a skimmer that will handle your tank, will do
much more good than the mangrove will at this stage.>
The Naso began with black blotches all over, face, gills, body,
etc....I thought it was Black Spot, but tested my water, saw the
nitrate numbers and quickly realized it was probably stress markings.
All of the blotching has gone away now with the exception of her back
and sides. Face, gills are all smooth and grey again, like normal. Yes,
that filter sock was packed with
debris/uneaten food. Thank you so much.
<Yes, a double edge sword here.>
I await your response re: the duration of running the skimmer wet, the
Nasos approx. recovery time,
<I couldn't begin to estimate recovery time, too many variables.
Most importantly, it is better to feed more often with smaller portions
per feeding than to put out the grand buffet a couple of times a
day.>
and the frequency of changing out the Chemi-Pure. You are my lifeline
right now. Please help. I have seen some of the articles in the link
you provided, but not all. I will read through once I return with the
Chemi-Pure.
<Great. What you need most right now is patience, this didn't
happen overnight and it isn't going to go away overnight.
Thank you.
<You're welcome, and you will get through this. James (Salty Dog)>
Dee.
Re: High nitrate's effects on Nasos skin? Naso
Tang/Health 3/26/09
James, is the Chemi Pure product you recommend by Boyd's?
<Yes.>
That is the only brand I've seen with this name on it. There are
two versions, a regular one, and one that's labeled
"elite", which removes phosphates and silicates as well as
what the regular one removes. Which do you recommend?
<In your situation, the standard Chemi-Pure will do more for you
right now than the Elite, more carbon and resins will be present to
better absorb excess nutrients. James (Salty Dog)>
Dee.
High nitrate's effects on Nasos skin? Naso Tang/Health
3/27/09
Salty Dog,
<Dee>
what a lifesaver you are. I hate to hog up so much of your precious
time, but please walk me through this like I'm 5 years old, I will
not be offended. I will purchase a mechanical filter tomorrow.
Honestly, what is it? What kind, brand, size do you recommend? Where do
I put it?
<Dee, you are scaring me now, you do not know what a mechanical
filter is? A mechanical filter is any filter that can trap debris,
uneaten food etc. Your filter sock can be identified as a mechanical
filter but would not work in this application.>
I will put it ahead of the Chemi-Pure as you suggested, but please tell
me where to put the mechanical filter as well as the media bags. Do I
use the carbon along with the Chemi-Pure?
<Not necessary to use carbon with Chemi-Pure, it contains
carbon.>
I have a 40 gallon refugium, separated into 3 sections. First section,
water from the main tank pours down into it. The skimmer is there. That
is where I've placed the bags of carbon and SeaChem's
De-nitrate.
<For now, remove the bags of carbon and place the Chemi-Pure bags in
their place. I'd also like you to send a couple pics of your sump.
We may be able to devise a way of using the Chemi-Pure more effectively
without you having to purchase a filter.>
The second section is where the sand, live rocks, algae plants and
sponge are growing.
<Good, a refugium is incorporated here.>
Third section, 2 return pumps, nothing else. I paid the local guy in my
area thousands of dollars for this set up. He brought everything out, I
never questioned the size, brands, anything, just trusted he'd keep
his word and give me top of the line everything, in sizes appropriate
for my system. Two years later, I am learning that one thing after
another is too small and inadequate for my tank.
<Is the exact reason you need to educate yourself more, don't
assume or trust everyone's suggestion(s). I would think that after
two years you would be a little further down the road.>
So this skimmer <ASM G-1> is what was installed on it,
<Don't understand why your LFS would install an undersize
skimmer on your tank. I'd be a little skeptical with him.>
I have no preference for the brand, I will replace with whatever you
recommend, please.. Yes, the skimmer had light colored liquid in it,
not dark as usual. I pushed it back down. Please explain what that
does, moving that tube up and down.
<Basically, the higher the water level in the skimmer, the lighter
the skimmate. You "pushed it back down", why not follow my
suggestion in the previous email? Don't go from one extreme to the
other. Read again and read the instructions that came with the
skimmer.>
You said with my 3 water changes I am now importing more nutrients than
I am exporting.
<No, I did not say that, go back and read again. I said you are at a
point where the skimmer cannot export the nutrients at the same rate
they are being imported, simply said, the skimmer is too small for your
tank.>
I should now then go back to my weekly water changes, rather than every
other day?
<Yes, do 10% weekly, right now you are wasting your money with every
other day changes. You need export help by way of a skimmer sized for
your tank. Changing water helps by dilution but can get expensive
in the long run, and is time consuming as you well know.>
<I should have asked this earlier before this turned into a saga,
but how many fish, and their approximate sizes do you have in this
tank?>
I don't understand. I use 2 different test kits, both strips, and
both are the 5 in 1 types, measuring pH, hardness alkalinity, nitrite,
nitrate, and ammonia. One is by Jungle. It measures nitrate is
quantities of 0, 20, 40, 80, 160, 200 ppm. I Googled it, there is no
specific mention of it measuring total nitrogen or just NO3. So,
I'm not sure. I also use a test strip kit by Mardel, same 5 in 1
style. This one specifically says it is measuring NO3 ppm at levels of
0, 20, 40, 80 and 200.
<Well, that's some relief, a kit measuring N-NO3 would have to
be multiplied by 4.4 to get the NO3 (nitrate ion) level. I'd do
away with these 5 in 1 strips and get a kit dedicated to measuring NO3
only. Aquarium Systems, Salifert and a few other companies have
inexpensive nitrate kits that will be easier to read than the strips.
Better yet, get kits that are dedicated to measuring an individual
water parameter. My personal preference are the Salifert Kits.>
I am terrified here.
<You are scaring me also.>
Thank you for the reminder that you all are here to help us, and that
this did not happen overnight, nor will it straighten out overnight.
Indeed, I was laying out the buffet 3-4 times a day. That is under
control now. Please advise.
<Right now, follow the above suggestions and do send photos of the
sump and other items I've asked you for above. It would be
beneficial to me for you to send a photo of the tank, I'd like to
see what I'm dealing with. Also, measure the length and width of
the skimmer section in the sump. I cannot recommend a skimmer without
knowing your available space. Skimmers vary in footprint dimensions and
we want to make sure we get one that will fit in the area provided. I
will then link you to a LFS/etailer than can provide you with your
needs and save you some money to boot. Where are you located. I also
feel that you need to learn/read more about this hobby. Here is a
link to our marine index which will lead you to most any topic dealing
with marine aquariums. Do spend some time reading/learning here.
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/marine/setup/marsetupindex1.htm
When replying, do not break up the entire thread as you have here,
always "reply to". Doing so prevents me from going back to
all the previous emails if I need to.?
James (Salty Dog)>
Thankfully, Dee.
High nitrate's effects on Nasos skin? Naso Tang/Health
3/26/09
Fantastic feedback, thank you James. I have learned so much from your
responses to others.
<You're welcome.>
Okay, here's the nitrate numbers. It was at 200 last Sunday, yes,
you read that right.
<Yikes, what kind of test kit are you using that will read that
high? Is your kit measuring total nitrogen or NO3?>
After one water change, and added filter media, it went down to 80.
<A big improvement.>
The next day, another water change, it went down to 50, where it has
remained for the past 3 days, even with another water change.
<You are at a point now where you are importing more nutrients than
the skimmer/system can export.>
So sorry, I neglected to mention that I am running a ASM G1 skimmer,
and my LFS said I need more like a G3 instead for my sized system. He
suggested I run the skimmer "WET" .....he came over and
raised the tube with the black sponge around it higher, I now have less
foam. Do you agree that running it wet will help?
<I like to set up skimmers so the skimmate is on the dark side.
I'm thinking the skimmate your skimmer is producing now is
tinted more like tea. Your dealer is correct, the G1 will not do it,
and either will the G3 which is rated for 250 gallons max.
If you like this brand of skimmer, go with the G4 which is rated for up
to 350 gallons.>
If so, how long until I push the tube back down below the neck of the
skimmer?
<Let it run awhile, see what color and amount of skimmate you get
out of the tank in a day or two. If it is light in color, push the tube
down about 1/2", then evaluate again. When you get to a point
where the skimmate isn't any darker, then that is where I'd
leave it.>
I have seen that Chemi-Pure and am on my way out to purchase it right
now. I have your recommended dosage for my sized system, and will
get that plus more. How often should I change it out?
<Well, they say every six months, but I've never found that to
be true. With your present nutrient level, I'm thinking about
one month and with the next change, likely two months. It is important
to have some type of mechanical filter ahead of the Chemi Pure to
increase it's useful life.>
Salty Dog, thank you just isn't enough. This issue has caused daily
nosebleeds, I need help, and was just too afraid to put the numbers
here.
<We are here to help you Dee, not criticize you. We all have been
down that road before and have learned from our mistakes and/or lack of
knowledge.>
I have also read that adding a Mangrove plant in the 'fuge will
help, as well. I am searching for one.
<Put your money toward a skimmer that will handle your tank, will do
much more good than the mangrove will at this stage.>
The Naso began with black blotches all over, face, gills, body,
etc....I thought it was Black Spot, but tested my water, saw the
nitrate numbers and quickly realized it was probably stress markings.
All of the blotching has gone away now with the exception of her back
and sides. Face, gills are all smooth and grey again, like normal. Yes,
that filter sock was packed with
debris/uneaten food. Thank you so much.
<Yes, a double edge sword here.>
I await your response re: the duration of running the skimmer wet, the
Nasos approx. recovery time,
<I couldn't begin to estimate recovery time, too many variables.
Most importantly, it is better to feed more often with smaller portions
per feeding than to put out the grand buffet a couple of times a
day.>
and the frequency of changing out the Chemi-Pure. You are my lifeline
right now. Please help. I have seen some of the articles in the link
you provided, but not all. I will read through once I return with the
Chemi-Pure.
<Great. What you need most right now is patience, this didn't
happen overnight and it isn't going to go away overnight.
Thank you.
<You're welcome, and you will get through this. James (Salty
Dog)>
Dee.
Surgeonfishes: Tangs for Marine Aquariums
Diversity, Selection & Care
New eBook on Amazon: Available here
New Print Book on Create Space: Available
here
by Robert (Bob) Fenner |
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