FAQs on
Betta Diseases: Environmental
5 (the most common cause)
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Betta Diseases,
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Related FAQs:
Environmental 1,
Environmental 2,
Environmental 3,
Environmental 4, &
Betta Disease 1,
Betta Disease 2,
Betta Disease 3,
Betta Disease 4,
Betta Disease 5,
Betta Disease 6,
Betta Disease 7,
Betta Disease 8,
Betta Disease 9,
Betta Disease 10,
Betta Disease 11,
Betta Disease 12,
Betta Disease 13,
Betta Disease 14,
Betta Disease 15,
Betta Disease 16,
Betta Disease 17,
Betta Disease 18 ,Betta Disease 19,
Betta Disease 20,
Betta Disease 21 Betta Health
22, Betta Health 23,
Betta Health 24,
Betta Disease
Causes/Etiologies: Determining/Diagnosing,
Nutritional,
Viral/Cancer,
Infectious (Bacterial, Fungal) ,
Parasitic:
Ich/White Spot,
Velvet;
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Cures/Curatives/Treatments,
& Bettas in
General,
Betta ID/Varieties,
Betta System,
Ammonia, Nitrite,
Nitrate,
Nitrogen Cycling,
Betta Behavior,
Betta Compatibility FAQs,
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Betta Reproduction,
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Betta Success
Doing what it takes to keep Bettas healthy long-term
by Robert (Bob) Fenner
|
Betta Breathing Hard; dis., sys. f' 5/15/18
Good morning All!
<Hey Donetta>
Glad you're still here! It's been a couple of years since I had a fish.
I've had my Betta "Pety" since the end of March. I got him from Petco. He was
beautiful except for a little tattering on his tail. I figured clean water would
take care of that, but it's still there in additional to a
little more splitting from excessive flaring and playing in the filter I
believe. It took him a couple weeks to calm down. He was fighting his evil twin
quite a bit!
My set up is a lone Betta in a 10 gallon tank with filter and heater set to 80
degrees. Plastic plants that are all Betta friendly and a few Marino balls. I
had all Anubias but they got that disease so I pulled them out. My tank is fully
cycled. It cycles in two days always with Tetra Safe Start which I love. My
param.s are always 0/0/5-10. My ph is always high at 8 and I live in Southern
Cali and my water is very hard.
<Ah yes; I'm in San Diego; we call the tap "liquid rock"...>
I always wonder if I should do a 50/50 tap and distilled water.
<Mmm; I'd just use the tap for what you have here. Likely the hard, alkaline
water was a factor with your Anubias>
I read so many different opinions. Do you think it will make a difference? If so
I'd like to give him the best home.
<Well; would be better w/ a middling 7's pH... But, the troubles folks have with
such adjustments.... IF you're going the modification of pH route, DO such
changes with new water OUTSIDE the tank, SAVE it ahead of time for use (like a
week)>
This is the first time I've had sand substrate and I had a hard time learning to
get it clean. I watched so many YouTube videos, but for a while I had this
debris floating on top of the water with a little cloudiness. In addition there
was also debris in the water column that looked like clear straight lines about
1/4th inch. I'd do 50% water changes 2-3 times a week trying to clear it up to
no avail. I know it was not good for Pety to breath that in plus he had the
tattering on his fins.
Also I think he lost a fin ray before I got him too. See it dangling on the
side?
<Mmm; not really. This fish looks good/great. Very healthy>
I finished treating him with Kanaplex in his food a couple weeks ago.
Nothing changed. Before that I tried salt for 10 days nothing changed.
Maybe my water quality wasn't good enough.
For about the last 1 1/2 weeks he's been breathing harder. I thought it was due
to all the floaties in the water. On Saturday, I finally kicked up the flow on
the filters. I have two mini internals with spray bars.
Pointed at the walls they make basically no current. I turned one up to the
water line. Said to myself Pety is going to have to get use to it.
It's still pretty tame though and he's doing ok. I finally tried a sand
vacuuming technique that worked for me.
<Yay!>
I hold the vacuum at an angle and let the back end touch the sand and glide
across. It doesn't pick up any sand! And I got out the most poo ever.
Finally! I did a 75% water change. Right after, I tried this DIY technique from
the DIY King on YouTube. I cut out a 16oz plastic bottle and attached it to a
power head. Packed the plastic bottle with filter floss and ran it for 15
minutes. Finally my tank is clear!
However, I stressed out Pety. I cupped him and let him float in the tank to keep
him warm while I ran the power head. However he was freaking out and moving side
to side. So I took him out the tank and sat him on the counter and put a towel
over him to calm him down. The whole process was 15 min. Then I released him
back in the water. A little later I noticed he was breathing harder. This was on
Saturday. On Sunday he was still breathing hard. Still swimming around as usual
and eating, begging for
food etc. I then added 5 teaspoons of aquarium salt along with an air stone to
help with his gills. I wonder if the breathing problems started because of the
debris in the tank and escalated because of the stressful water change.
<What are your measures of ammonia, nitrite, nitrate? Temperature?>
This morning (Monday). He's still breathing hard. Looks like his gills are
sticking out a tad. Could he have Gill Flukes?
<Very doubtful>
But he never flashes. I have PraziPro at home. I didn't want to just drop meds
in his tank, but I'm very concerned over his breathing. And I'm concerned about
his fins not healing, they are a little worse then the above pic now, but the
splitting is not progressing it's pretty much staying the same. Maybe it doesn't
heal because of the water quality.
<This IS the mostly likely cause>
Also I forgot to mention I keep Indian almond tannins in his tank and I've been
using Seachem Stress Guard for his fins, but again no improvement.
<These are fine to use>
Thanks for your help!
Donetta
<Thank you for sharing. Bob Fenner>
|
|
Re: Betta Breathing Hard 5/17/18
Hi again, I tested his water and couldn't believe it had .25ppm of
ammonia!
<Aha!>
That's the second time in 2.5 months that I lost my cycle. I did a 75% water
change and added the Tetra Safe Start and 24 hours later, no more ammonia. Last
week I did four water changes on my 10gal tank.
<So much change can disrupt nitrification. Hence my urging folks to pre-mix,
store change out water ahead (a week) of use>
He's still breathing harder since Saturday, but swimming and eating normally. In
addition, the bottom of his beard is always sticking out.
There is salt in his tank. Not sure if I can do anything else?
<Patience...>
I had been changing the water so much due to the debris as I hadn't gotten the
sand cleaning down pat.
<I encourage you to consider switching this sand out for larger grade... gravel>
Also he has some splitting on his fins. This morning I noticed another small
missing piece. I turned the filter back down. I read to do many water
changes to improve this, but I can't if I keep losing my cycle.
<Changing the water out is not a viable solution.... You need a steady bacterial
population... in filter media, gravel....>
I'm not even sure if it's rotting or just splitting. It doesn't look red, black,
melting or infected but it's not healing. There's more and more splitting and
tears here and there.
<.... the issue here is too much water change, ammonia>
I thought about putting him in a small tank and doing daily water changes. I did
that with another Betta in the past and It worked. But that seems drastic and I
know he won't like it, but at what point do I make
that step?
<Perhaps reading a few hundred responses on WWM re Betta splendens;
environmental disease>
Plus I did that with 1tsp of salt per gallon. I'm not sure how often that is
safe to do. I've had salt in his tank since Sunday.
Thanks for your help,
Donetta
<Welcome. Bob Fenner>
Re: Betta Breathing Hard 5/24/18
Good morning Bob,
<Hey Donetta>
I read about 90% on the Betta environmental FAQS.
<Wow!>
It was eye opening! As suggested, I changed out the sand and replaced
with cleaned gravel.
<Ah, good>
That was a lot of work! I cleaned and wiped down everything and changed
out all the water. Not sure if that was the best, but I read that some
people do that when their Betta's have fin rot.
<Yes; best to have a clean start>
I still have my cycle and it's held steady for 8 days now.
<Tres bien!>
After I put everything back together I couldn't believe that I still saw
fine debris on the surface. So disappointed! I kept the filter media. I
just swished around the sponge, floss and bio balls.
<Good move>
I believe the floss is the problem. I should have just replaced it, but
I was afraid I would lose my cycle again. I replaced it last night. It's
a little better, but now I have more debris again :(! I have two mini
internal filters with spray bars that I point to the wall on opposite
ends of the 10 gallon tank. One filter has a sponge and three bio balls.
The other has filter floss and about seven bio balls. Both are rated
45gph and are turned up to the max. There is basically no current, but I
see that now I'm going to have to clean the sponge/ bio balls weekly and
replace the floss weekly. It seems like a pain.
<Mmm; I'd remove, clean just one at a time; to discern whence forth the
fine debris>
I'm thinking maybe I can get one of those corner filters.
<There are small power one>
I'll be able to have more bio media plus will only have to service one
filter. Will this surface debris cause problems?
<Not likely; no. It can be dipped out (with a plastic pitcher on edge)
or wicked out (with a non-printed, non-odorized paper towel)>
It just seems that I can't get rid of it. I'm not over feeding plus I
did the 100% water change on Monday. So frustrating. I'm not scheduled
to do another water change until next Monday.
<Good>
Last Thursday I noticed more receding of Pety's tail. Two good sized
areas are gone. It's just getting worse. I know this happened because of
the ammonia spike. I can't see the tail getting better without
medication.
What do you think? I have Kanaplex and Paraguard.
<Not the Guard... the issue isn't parasitic... there are other, better
anti-Finrot med.s... Even just a modicum of "aquarium salt">
I don't want to hurt my filter. Plus Pety still breathes a little
labored.
His tail is not deteriorating quickly, but it gets worse over time.
<... the environment; patience>
I know how to get rid of that debris. I can put my powerhead in the
water with attached water bottle that has filter floss in it and let it
rip for 15 minutes. I'll have crystal clear water, but I'd have to take
Pety out the tank. Then he'll be more stressed out.
I appreciate your help. Thanks!
Donetta
<Welcome. Bob Fenner>
Re: Betta Breathing Hard 5/24/18
I appreciate your responses and feedback. I'll try and be more patient.
How much is a Modicum of salt for a 10 gallon tank?
<A couple of level teaspoons>
Do I just add one time and then gradually water change it out or replace
and keep in for a certain amount of time?
<All at once; replaced with the percentage of water changed out>
Thanks again,
Donetta
<Welcome. BobF>
Re: Betta Breathing Hard 6/11/18
Hi Bob,
<Donetta>
I damaged my fish ��. I added the two teaspoons of salt in my 10 gallon
on 5/23rd. Petty's fins still did not heal. So last Sunday, June 3rd I
transferred his to a 1.5g tank. I added 1.25 teaspoons of salt and did
100% water changes daily.
<... this is too much change. Switching all the water out is very hard
on aquatic life, UNLESS the water matches chemically and physically that
which is being removed>
There were not any changes with the splitting on his fins, but his
coloring and appearance in general became very pretty and vibrant. On
Saturday, the 6th Day he cut a portion of his dorsal fin off on the
plastic plant on the DIY cave I made for him. I had transferred this
over from his big tank. Had not had a problem before. I bought him with
the fin rot. After that I noticed more tattering and fraying on his back
fin. More rotting.
Yesterday morning, I netted him used a qtip and swabbed the area with
35% hydrogen Peroxide.
<?! What prompted you to use H2O2 directly on a fish?>
It must have been too much. His tail fin had bubbles on them which I
expected, but later they became spread out as if in a constant flare and
they became stiffened. I thought maybe this was temporary, but it hasn't
changed 24 hours later. They almost appear slightly glued together. He
swims around fine, but the tail fin seems a little heavy. I feel
horrible ��. This morning I noticed the tips of those fins eroding off
in the water.
<Yes; burned>
I believe the tissue maybe dead. My son is going to be devastated. I
don't think Petty can come back from this. I don't know what to do.
Thanks
<Nothing to do treatment wise. Just good care at this point. Bob Fenner>
|
Betta Health Question 4/13/18
Hello Bob and WWM Crew!
<Greetings Jen>
I have been experiencing some issues with my Betta fish. I have
12 of them, and from time to time a few of them have exhibited
symptoms where they have trouble swimming and balancing.
<Unusual behavior>
This has occurred in several different tanks with several different
fish. Most recently it happened in a 2 gallon tank that had been setup
for 3 1/2 weeks, when I added my established Betta to the tank, within a
day he was having trouble swimming and balancing. I
checked the water parameters (PH 8.1,
<Better for Bettas to be in neutral, soft/er water... a pH of 7.0 or so.
The pH scale is a base 10 log... so 8 is ten times more hydrogen ions
(or ten less OH) than 7; a big difference. Do see WWM re pH control>
Ammonia .25,
<Mmm; this needs to be and stay 0.0 ppm; ammonia is even more toxic at
high/er pH>
NO2 0,
NO3 10, I try to maintain temp around 77). The tank has a few live
plants and fish safe gravel, and a filter with activated carbon. Here is
the strange thing; when I remove the Betta to a cup (the cup they are in
when purchased from the store) in the same water from the tank, within
minutes to an hour, they are swimming perfectly normal, which leads me
to believe it is not caused from the water, as I realize the PH is
slightly elevated
and there is trace ammonia present. I am so frustrated trying to figure
out why the Betta exhibits these symptoms in the tank, but when removed
from the tank and placed in a cup, they almost instantly improve?
<Does seem strange>
I am hoping you might have some insight and suggestions for me, I have
scoured your articles and FAQ's and couldn't find anything similar to
this issue.
Please help!!
Sincerely,
Lizzy M.
<Do you have other fish species? Are they similarly disoriented? Do the
tanks have gravel, that is, something other than a reflective bottom...
?
I'd do what you can to make the water quality better for now. Bob
Fenner>
Saving Betta from possible Ammonia Poisoning
2/7/18
Hi Crew,
<Kath>
I'm sorry to trouble you,
<Never a bother>
but I could use some help with my sick Betta, Samson. To cover the
basics, Samson normally lives in a 5 gallon heated, and cycled tank (had
been cycled for 2 years now). Tank gets a 25% water change every week.
<Great so far>
Our tap water here has ammonia in it, so I've been adding Ammo-lock as
well as a water conditioner that deals with chlorine and chromomine.
<Chloramine likely>
Two weeks ago I went on vacation, I had someone come in to feed the
rodents of the house, and asked them to feed my two Bettas occasionally
as well (don't worry, they are in separate tanks).
Long story short, the filter in Samson's tank died while I was gone. I
came home to a tank growing grey algae, food sitting on the bottom, and
a not so great looking fish. Samson was hanging out right at the top of
the tank,
his colour had faded from vibrant red to red with a gray tone to it.
I immediately did a 50% water change, and went out to get a new filter
for him. I wanted to buy test strips for ammonia but my LFS was all out.
I did buy test strips for Nitrates and Nitrites, both of which read (and
continue
to read) 0ppm.
I installed the filter, and did another 30% water change the next day.
Samson perked right up about a day later and his colour came back. I
thought the problem was mostly dealt with, as long as I kept up water
changes 2x a week.
<Good>
All weekend he seemed fine, then on Monday he suddenly stated acting
extremely ill again. His colour faded once more, he started clamping his
fins, and he was back to either staying right at the top of the tank, or
laying on the bottom. I did another 30% water change, which did not make
any difference to his behaviour.
I got home from work today and just did a 100% water change, making sure
to scrub out my gravel and silk plants. I know it means restarting my
tank, but I was worried that I had missed some of the gray algae and
that that
was making him sick.
<I would've done the same>
I swapped the filter media in from my other cycled Betta tank, to speed
the cycling process along.
<Good move>
During the tank cleaning, I had set Samson up in a small holding tank,
with some Methylene blue added. I've read it can help repair damage from
ammonia poisoning. I added him back into his main tank a few hours ago,
and so far
all he's done is hide, but he's still not looking great.
<The repair will take time. A few weeks>
The problem is my LFS is STILL out of ammonia test strips, and since
Samson is a red fish, I can't determine if he has the red ammonia burns
or not.
I've looked him over pretty closely with a flashlight and can't see any
obvious signs of a parasite (at least not on the outside). He is still
interested in food, just struggling to reach it.
I'm concerned that I've misdiagnosed the problem, or that he got such
severe poisoning that he's going to need more help than simple water
changes and filtering can fix. I'm also concerned that he's not bouncing
back like he
should due to his age. He was full grown when he came to me (he was a
rescue) and I've had him just over 2 years.
Any suggestions on how to help him along in recovery? I really
appreciate any advice you could give.
Thanks, Kathryn.
<I would continue to do as you are doing; perhaps raise the temperature
to the low to mid 80's F. Patience here. Bob Fenner>
Re: Saving Betta from possible Ammonia Poisoning
2/7/18
Hi Bob,
<Kathryn>
Thank you for the quick response. Just an update, It's been 12 hours
since I broke down the tank and cleaned everything. Being put into a
holding tank, and then back into the main tank stressed Samson (the
Betta) out,
though I tried hard to do it as gently as possible.
My tank parameters at the moment are 0 nitrites, 0 nitrates, ph 7, temp
of 26.5C, not sure on hardness, but I know we typically do have very
hard water here. I still don't know the ammonia amount but I will be
checking back at my LFS tonight to see if the test strips came in.
<Okay>
The bad news is he's been hiding for the full 12 hours.
<To be expected... not to worry>
No interest in food at all. I haven't seen him swim around at all
either, but when I check on him he has switched hiding places a few
times, so he is obviously swimming slightly. He is just laying on the
bottom in his various caves and gives no reaction when I come to the
tank. I have lots of plants that reach the surface, so he could hang out
up top if he wanted too, but he is either too weak to get there, or just
prefers to be on the bottom right now.
<The stress of the move...>
The good news is he seems to be breathing easier, it is not laboured at
all, he is laying upright, and I think his colour has improved just
marginally, it's more red and less grey, but still not back to normal.
He is honestly acting like he does when he sleeps, but I've never seen
him sleep for 12 hours straight before.
I took a good look after his Methylene blue bath for any signs of
staining, to try and identify any cell damage. I couldn't see anything
noticeable, but of course I'm no expert and may have missed something.
<Methylene Blue is very safe, mild>
My best guess is that his filter was out for a week while I was gone. So
I think the ammonia buildup get pretty bad.
<Could have been>
I do understand if he is going to recover that it's going to take time.
I just hate seeing him in distress. I think I need some tough love here,
does he have any chance at recovering?
<Sure>
Is there anything else I could be doing to help the process along?
<Not really; no. Just time going by>
I want to give him the best chance I can, but if there really is no
hope, I also don't want to prolong his suffering
needlessly.
I really appreciate that you and the rest of the crew take time to
answer questions like mine.
Wishing you all the best,
Kathryn
<Cheers, BobF>
Re: Saving Betta from possible Ammonia Poisoning 2/15/18
Hi Bob and Crew,
Sorry to trouble you again, but my Betta fish Samson seems to have
gotten worse.
<Oh?>
I emailed last week about my sick Betta Samson, who we thought had
ammonia poisoning. We got a new test kit and have been checking the
water daily.
The ph is between 6.5 and 7, the temperature is 27c, no nitrites or
nitrates ever registered. We have ammonia in our tap water (registers at
0.5ppm after adding water conditioner), so we use API AmmoLock.
<If I haven't stated this before, I strongly encourage you to treat and
save new/change out water a week or more ahead of use>
We had swapped in the filter from our other cycled Betta tank, which
seemed to be working on dealing with the tap water ammonia and were
doing 25% water changes daily. For 3 days the fish was doing better. He
was still
lethargic
and had a pale colour, but he started eating again and wasn't hiding or
clamping his fins at all. He would swim out to see me when I came to the
tank, he just needed to have a rest afterwards. He seemed to be on the
road to recovery.
Then on Saturday he seemed to be a bit worse, so instead of the daily
25% water changes I'd been doing, I did 30% water changes. On Sunday he
started acting very ill again, he would swim to the surface to breathe
and not
have the energy to settle himself back down again, instead just falling
onto whatever was below him (ending up hanging upside down from a plant
at one point). He wouldn't eat, he wouldn't react to anything. I would
have
thought he was dead except that his gills were still moving.
With nothing else to try, I set up a 1 gallon hospital tank with
Methylene blue and moved him into that. I'm completely at a loss to
explain why he has now twice improved and then become much worse very
quickly. I would suspect water quality but the tank readings seem great
and I had done a complete tank clean and 100% water change the last time
he started getting worse. I have another Betta tank set up with the same
parameters, same food, and that fish is thriving! Samson's been in the
hospital tank for 3 days with 50% water changes. He's now able to sit
upright again and decided he was willing to eat a small amount again
last night.
I've checked Samson over several times with a flashlight looking for
anything that could explain this weird cycle. I can't see any visible
deformities, no scratches or scrapes, no broken fins. The only thing I
can see that seems wrong is a greenish/brown colour on his tail fin that
is not part of his normal colouring (when healthy he was a vibrant red).
I've dealt with velvet in tanks before and this doesn't look anything
like it to me. I'm not even sure this colouring is a sign of a specific
disease or simply a change in colour due to illness.
I was hoping for some help in identifying what could be wrong so that I
can begin a targeted treatment instead of just leaving him in Methylene
blue and hoping that works. I'm assuming since this started with a
broken filter that we are still dealing with ammonia poisoning but also
possibly a secondary infection.
List of symptoms that I've seen:
-lethargic
-rapid gill movement (this is a new development in the last few days)
-loss of appetite (this comes and goes)
-struggling to stay upright (this also comes and goes)
-loss of colour
-greenish brown colouring on tail fin
<... nothing jumps out other than stress from all the changes>
Standard symptoms I have not seen:
-No gold specs
-no white growths
-no streaking or dark tissue
-no fin or body rot
-no eye glassing or swelling
-gills are not visibly swollen
-no trouble eating when he wants to eat
-no obvious weight loss
-no body swelling
-no raised scales
-no scrapes, holes or missing scales
-no bleeding
-pooping just fine
Any advice at all would be very much appreciated. I've dealt with sick
Betta's before (I used to work in a pet shop that sold Betta's and I
treated any that came in sick), but I'm honestly at a loss for what I'm
dealing with here.
Thank you,
Kathryn
<I urge patience and caution here against doing anything else... Likely
the best course of action is to do nothing further. Bob Fenner>
Saving Betta from possible Ammonia Poisoning
2/7/18
Hi Crew,
<Kath>
I'm sorry to trouble you,
<Never a bother>
but I could use some help with my sick Betta, Samson. To cover the
basics, Samson normally lives in a 5 gallon heated, and cycled tank (had
been cycled for 2 years now). Tank gets a 25% water change every week.
<Great so far>
Our tap water here has ammonia in it, so I've been adding Ammo-lock as
well as a water conditioner that deals with chlorine and chromomine.
<Chloramine likely>
Two weeks ago I went on vacation, I had someone come in to feed the
rodents of the house, and asked them to feed my two Bettas occasionally
as well (don't worry, they are in separate tanks).
Long story short, the filter in Samson's tank died while I was gone. I
came home to a tank growing grey algae, food sitting on the bottom, and
a not so great looking fish. Samson was hanging out right at the top of
the tank,
his colour had faded from vibrant red to red with a gray tone to it.
I immediately did a 50% water change, and went out to get a new filter
for him. I wanted to buy test strips for ammonia but my LFS was all out.
I did buy test strips for Nitrates and Nitrites, both of which read (and
continue
to read) 0ppm.
I installed the filter, and did another 30% water change the next day.
Samson perked right up about a day later and his colour came back. I
thought the problem was mostly dealt with, as long as I kept up water
changes 2x a week.
<Good>
All weekend he seemed fine, then on Monday he suddenly stated acting
extremely ill again. His colour faded once more, he started clamping his
fins, and he was back to either staying right at the top of the tank, or
laying on the bottom. I did another 30% water change, which did not make
any difference to his behaviour.
I got home from work today and just did a 100% water change, making sure
to scrub out my gravel and silk plants. I know it means restarting my
tank, but I was worried that I had missed some of the gray algae and
that that
was making him sick.
<I would've done the same>
I swapped the filter media in from my other cycled Betta tank, to speed
the cycling process along.
<Good move>
During the tank cleaning, I had set Samson up in a small holding tank,
with some Methylene blue added. I've read it can help repair damage from
ammonia poisoning. I added him back into his main tank a few hours ago,
and so far
all he's done is hide, but he's still not looking great.
<The repair will take time. A few weeks>
The problem is my LFS is STILL out of ammonia test strips, and since
Samson is a red fish, I can't determine if he has the red ammonia burns
or not.
I've looked him over pretty closely with a flashlight and can't see any
obvious signs of a parasite (at least not on the outside). He is still
interested in food, just struggling to reach it.
I'm concerned that I've misdiagnosed the problem, or that he got such
severe poisoning that he's going to need more help than simple water
changes and filtering can fix. I'm also concerned that he's not bouncing
back like he
should due to his age. He was full grown when he came to me (he was a
rescue) and I've had him just over 2 years.
Any suggestions on how to help him along in recovery? I really
appreciate any advice you could give.
Thanks, Kathryn.
<I would continue to do as you are doing; perhaps raise the temperature
to the low to mid 80's F. Patience here. Bob Fenner>
Re: Saving Betta from possible Ammonia Poisoning
2/7/18
Hi Bob,
<Kathryn>
Thank you for the quick response. Just an update, It's been 12 hours
since I broke down the tank and cleaned everything. Being put into a
holding tank, and then back into the main tank stressed Samson (the
Betta) out,
though I tried hard to do it as gently as possible.
My tank parameters at the moment are 0 nitrites, 0 nitrates, ph 7, temp
of 26.5C, not sure on hardness, but I know we typically do have very
hard water here. I still don't know the ammonia amount but I will be
checking back at my LFS tonight to see if the test strips came in.
<Okay>
The bad news is he's been hiding for the full 12 hours.
<To be expected... not to worry>
No interest in food at all. I haven't seen him swim around at all
either, but when I check on him he has switched hiding places a few
times, so he is obviously swimming slightly. He is just laying on the
bottom in his various caves and gives no reaction when I come to the
tank. I have lots of plants that reach the surface, so he could hang out
up top if he wanted too, but he is either too weak to get there, or just
prefers to be on the bottom right now.
<The stress of the move...>
The good news is he seems to be breathing easier, it is not laboured at
all, he is laying upright, and I think his colour has improved just
marginally, it's more red and less grey, but still not back to normal.
He is honestly acting like he does when he sleeps, but I've never seen
him sleep for 12 hours straight before.
I took a good look after his Methylene blue bath for any signs of
staining, to try and identify any cell damage. I couldn't see anything
noticeable, but of course I'm no expert and may have missed something.
<Methylene Blue is very safe, mild>
My best guess is that his filter was out for a week while I was gone. So
I think the ammonia buildup get pretty bad.
<Could have been>
I do understand if he is going to recover that it's going to take time.
I just hate seeing him in distress. I think I need some tough love here,
does he have any chance at recovering?
<Sure>
Is there anything else I could be doing to help the process along?
<Not really; no. Just time going by>
I want to give him the best chance I can, but if there really is no
hope, I also don't want to prolong his suffering
needlessly.
I really appreciate that you and the rest of the crew take time to
answer questions like mine.
Wishing you all the best,
Kathryn
<Cheers, BobF>
Re: Saving Betta from possible Ammonia Poisoning 2/15/18
Hi Bob and Crew,
Sorry to trouble you again, but my Betta fish Samson seems to have
gotten worse.
<Oh?>
I emailed last week about my sick Betta Samson, who we thought had
ammonia poisoning. We got a new test kit and have been checking the
water daily.
The ph is between 6.5 and 7, the temperature is 27c, no nitrites or
nitrates ever registered. We have ammonia in our tap water (registers at
0.5ppm after adding water conditioner), so we use API AmmoLock.
<If I haven't stated this before, I strongly encourage you to treat and
save new/change out water a week or more ahead of use>
We had swapped in the filter from our other cycled Betta tank, which
seemed to be working on dealing with the tap water ammonia and were
doing 25% water changes daily. For 3 days the fish was doing better. He
was still
lethargic
and had a pale colour, but he started eating again and wasn't hiding or
clamping his fins at all. He would swim out to see me when I came to the
tank, he just needed to have a rest afterwards. He seemed to be on the
road to recovery.
Then on Saturday he seemed to be a bit worse, so instead of the daily
25% water changes I'd been doing, I did 30% water changes. On Sunday he
started acting very ill again, he would swim to the surface to breathe
and not
have the energy to settle himself back down again, instead just falling
onto whatever was below him (ending up hanging upside down from a plant
at one point). He wouldn't eat, he wouldn't react to anything. I would
have
thought he was dead except that his gills were still moving.
With nothing else to try, I set up a 1 gallon hospital tank with
Methylene blue and moved him into that. I'm completely at a loss to
explain why he has now twice improved and then become much worse very
quickly. I would suspect water quality but the tank readings seem great
and I had done a complete tank clean and 100% water change the last time
he started getting worse. I have another Betta tank set up with the same
parameters, same food, and that fish is thriving! Samson's been in the
hospital tank for 3 days with 50% water changes. He's now able to sit
upright again and decided he was willing to eat a small amount again
last night.
I've checked Samson over several times with a flashlight looking for
anything that could explain this weird cycle. I can't see any visible
deformities, no scratches or scrapes, no broken fins. The only thing I
can see that seems wrong is a greenish/brown colour on his tail fin that
is not part of his normal colouring (when healthy he was a vibrant red).
I've dealt with velvet in tanks before and this doesn't look anything
like it to me. I'm not even sure this colouring is a sign of a specific
disease or simply a change in colour due to illness.
I was hoping for some help in identifying what could be wrong so that I
can begin a targeted treatment instead of just leaving him in Methylene
blue and hoping that works. I'm assuming since this started with a
broken filter that we are still dealing with ammonia poisoning but also
possibly a secondary infection.
List of symptoms that I've seen:
-lethargic
-rapid gill movement (this is a new development in the last few days)
-loss of appetite (this comes and goes)
-struggling to stay upright (this also comes and goes)
-loss of colour
-greenish brown colouring on tail fin
<... nothing jumps out other than stress from all the changes>
Standard symptoms I have not seen:
-No gold specs
-no white growths
-no streaking or dark tissue
-no fin or body rot
-no eye glassing or swelling
-gills are not visibly swollen
-no trouble eating when he wants to eat
-no obvious weight loss
-no body swelling
-no raised scales
-no scrapes, holes or missing scales
-no bleeding
-pooping just fine
Any advice at all would be very much appreciated. I've dealt with sick
Betta's before (I used to work in a pet shop that sold Betta's and I
treated any that came in sick), but I'm honestly at a loss for what I'm
dealing with here.
Thank you,
Kathryn
<I urge patience and caution here against doing anything else... Likely
the best course of action is to do nothing further. Bob Fenner>
Betta Sick and NOTHING is working
1/5/17
Hello, so around 5-6 months ago my Betta became sick with a
bacterial infection.
<Mmm; almost always such situations can be traced back to other, more
primary influences... Genetics no doubt plays a role at times, but
environmental issues (low, fluctuating temperature, water quality, esp.
biological pollution) and nutrition are where we find root causes; and
cures>
I assume it was due to bad water quality as I had gotten a bit lazy with
water-changes as of that time.
<Ahh!>
As well, before symptoms occurred a mosquito eater insect somehow landed
in the tank while I slept and grew white mold/fungi overnight,
<?>
the next morning the first symptom, PopEye, appeared. I immediately took
action and cleaned his tank and did multiple water changes that day.
<... more than one in a day?>
I did some quick research and decided to order Maracyn two. Over the
next 2 days his condition RAPIDLY decreased, his PopEye got so bad one
eye was halfway out of his head and there was fungus growing in the open
wound. I was extremely worried at this point because of the fast
progression, he also began to get fin rot on his tail fins. He soon
stopped eating completely and became extremely thin and lethargic.
Soon after starting his Maracyn 2 treatment there were already rapid
improvements. The dead and fungus infested part of the eye fell off, his
eyes weren't swelled as bad, the fin rot disappeared in the back fins.
He started eating again promptly, at the time his water was at 74-74 as
I was
in the process of getting a better heater. He has stayed eating and
without fin-rot in the back and not too bad of pop eye. However his
PopEye never
completely healed, his gills stayed inflamed, and his side fins started
to get fin rot. I tried daily water changes for a while hoping that
clean
water would finish the process.
<Is this animal in a filtered, heated system?>
After that didn't work I tried a second run of Maracyn 2 in the tank,
which also seemed to do nothing. I continued doing regular water changes
around 2-3 times per week. I then tried treatment using Seachem Metro-plex
and Focus in frozen blood-worms, I fed these for around 3 weeks with no
change in his condition. I then tried Metro-plex dosing in the water
itself to see if that would work, I am on about week 2 or the end of it
and still see no signs of improvement. I am wondering if you guys have
any idea what I can do to help my Betta.
<Need to state this; for you, and others who will read this in time:
Aquatic life is different than tetrapod terrestrial (mammals, birds...)
in that it "cures" more slowly. Likely fixing the environment, improving
nutrition will fix your Betta. Too many water changes destabilizes
biological filtration... DO you have ammonia, nitrite present here? How
much accumulated Nitrate? I would STOP the used of medicines, fix the
environment>
Other Info: I house him in a 5 gallon Fluval Spec, with a pre-filter
sponge over the filter so the water is peaceful for him.
<And a heater... the temp. kept near... what?>
I do 1-3 water changes per week depending on how much waste is produced.
<Should only change some of the water weekly... Please read here:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/fwsubwebindex/betta_splendens.htm
I feed him 1-2 New Life Spectrum Community Pellets each night, 1 when
the water is being dosed since I can't change the water due to the
medication. I use Seachem Prime on his water when I change it, I also do
75% percent water changes whenever I change his water. He is housed with
a plastic stump hide, underwater artificial flower, sitting leaf, and a
Marimo moss ball. I want to have more plants for him but cannot due to a
weak light. He is on white sand that I gravel vacuum each water change,
he appears to be very active a majority of the time. The filter has two
different sections of bio-media and 3 different sections of sponge, his
heater keeps his tank in the low 80's.
So, if you guys have any idea of what else I can do, I would love to
know, if you would like to have pictures just say so. Although all of
his
symptoms point towards a bacterial infection but nothing seems to be
able to kick it. Thanks for the help,
Regards, Drew Meier.
<The reading, changing the interval of water switching, water
testing/reporting, and no more medicine use is the route I would go. Bob
Fenner>
Re: Betta Sick and NOTHING is working
1/6/18
I don't quite understand your final comment, do you mean use no more
medicine,
<Yes>
set up a definite water change schedule, not change as much water,
<Read here:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/water.htm
and testing the water regularly?
<Keep reading>
Thanks for the fast reply.
<Thank you for reading first. B>
Re: Betta Sick and NOTHING is working
1/6/18
Ok, I tested his water, there were low nitrates (5-10 ppm) 0 nitrites,
and a small amount of ammonia, which I am unsure of how
it has gotten there because of a well cycled tank,
<Likely from the water changes and med.s>
I did a 40% water change,
<...>
dialing it back a bit but since ammonia was present still substantial,
added prime as well as a cap of stability to add more good bacteria. I
will begin testing daily, if ammonia or nitrite is present a 25% water
change as well as prime and
stability, and see how that goes for the time being. Once cycle is back
on track I will do 2 25% water changes a week.
Thanks again.
<Cheers>
Re: Betta Sick and NOTHING is working
1/6/18
Thanks again for all the help!
<Welcome>
Black tiny spots on my Female/Crowntail Betta
3/1/17
I notice three very tiny black spots on my Female/Crowntail Betta's back
area(close to her head), and some black spots on her fins (left side).
These spot start appearing when I thought my fish tank had cycled. It
took a while but, now the tank is cycled. Ammonia 0, pH 7, Nitrites 0,
and Nitrates 0. I have a great filter and heater (depending on the temp
in the room it can be 78-80 degrees. The spots do not seem to hurt or
bother her.
I check to see if they were holes but, they are not. Could going
through the cycling cause these spots?
<Might well be a factor here... Can't be very sure w/o looking at
myself, perhaps sampling, observing w/ a microscope; but "dark marks"
in/on Bettas (and other fishes) are often evidence of stress,
neurological damage... and just genetic (Melanocyte) expression>
The ammonia has high for a week and then 0.
<Ahh; another stressor; often deadly>
Then the nitrites became high for a couple of days and then 0. The
Nitrates were 5.0 ppm and then 0. I used good bacteria to hurry the
cycling process. I have a 2.5 gallon tank.
<Needs to NOT be present in a cycling system; NEEDS a stable, heated,
filtered world>
When I purchase my Betta, she was very small not even a half inch long.
I thought a larger tank would be to much
for her being so young. I do plan to purchase a 5 gallon tank when she
get about 2 inches long.
I would be very thankful for your help. I look forward to hearing from
you.
<I would provide the mentioned needs and NOT treat/medicate here; as
this will only add further stress>
Thank you for taking the time to read my email.
Carolyn Bagley
<Thank you for writing so clearly, completely. Bob Fenner>
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Betta Success
Doing what it takes to keep Bettas healthy long-term
by Robert (Bob) Fenner
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