New Betta in 2.5 gal cycled tank breathing rapidly  - 12/29/06 Hi there, <<Hello, Mercedes. Tom here.>> My compliments on your site.  Very informative.   <<Thank you kindly.>> Despite all the info, I think I need your advice.  I have just introduced a young Betta to a cycled 2.5 gallon tank (nitrites and ammonia 0, nitrates about 20).  I watched him for about an hour in the LFS to check his breathing and for signs of disease.  He was the best of the bunch and looked very healthy.  The tank temperature is at 80F, and I have a UGF which could probably use a cleaning based on the level of nitrates.  The tank is stocked with 5 live plants (2 of which will be moving to my other tank once I'm sure my other Betta is through his velvet problem) and has been stable at 5 ppm of nitrates for 2 weeks, but the first test yesterday (after I did about a 50% water change before adding the new guy) was up to 20 ppm. <<Agreed that 20 ppm is a bit high particularly coming up from a very respectable 5 ppm.>> Because he's so new, I'm not sure what his normal behaviour is, but he's concerning me with the rapid breathing and fascination with the filter output and high level of activity, including sliding down the sides of the tank. <<Sounds quite normal to me, Mercedes. Could easily have been a description of mine for the first few days that I had him.>> While this could be normal, I'm concerned given my previous problem with velvet.  I should mention I lost a previous Betta in this tank who had a bad case of velvet (I took pity on him at the pet store because he was beautiful, but I could see then that his gills weren't closing properly so I knew it was a long shot -- treated him with Quick Cure but it was too late -- he only lasted two days).   <<As you have probably discovered with Velvet, the telltale signs are critical to saving the fish. Once the infestation has manifested itself far enough to be 'apparent', it's often too late to treat effectively.>> I broke down the tank and sterilized everything (bleach solution), leaving it without a fish inhabitant for over a month.  Everything I've read tells me that velvet needs a host within 24 hours of replicating, and that the life cycle is max 14 days, and that it doesn't like heat (kept this tank at 80F for 3 weeks before adding the new guy).  Should I be worried about velvet (he has iridescent blue-green colouring and I can't see anything that looks rust-coloured or reflective on him other than this colouring when I use a flashlight and magnifying glass) or is this more likely "curious about my new home" behaviour. <<Based on what you've described, I would say it's impossible for the parasite(s) to have survived the sterilizing/fallow-time. I certainly understand your concern what with your previous experience but, in my opinion, your fears are unnecessary.>> Also, to get the nitrates down, I think I should give the UGF a thorough cleaning and vacuum the gravel.  Am I on track with this? <<If you intend to keep the UGF, I would concur that a good cleaning is likely in order. Nothing wrong with these if you stay on top of the maintenance required of them but there are easier ways to go here.>> The charcoal part of the filter is not in, and I'd like to put it back in, too.  If this is a good idea, when should I be doing all of this?  The new guy's just had quite a trip and he's not adjusted yet, but if I'm going to do a 20% water change or more to control the nitrates, I might as well take him out for a short bit and do the rest of the cleaning.   <<Given the stress placed on your fish by moving him, I would clean the gravel with the water change and add the charcoal now. Leave the UGF for the time being but continue to monitor your nitrates. Let your Betta become more accustomed to his new surroundings, and you, before cleaning the plate.>> I just don't want to stress him too much.  His breathing does slow sometimes (when he's not racing around checking out the new digs), but it still seems too rapid to be normal. <<Consider adding some aquarium salt with the water change. I'm starting to sound like the proverbial 'broken record' on this topic (for those old enough to remember what records are :) ) but I consider aquarium salt a 'requirement' with Bettas rather than an option. I can assure you that you'll see a significant difference in his breathing and behavior in short order.>> Thanks in advance for what I'm sure will be good advice. <<You're welcome, Mercedes. My best to you and your new pet. Enjoy the New Year!>> Mercedes <<Tom>>
Re: New Betta in 2.5 gal cycled tank breathing rapidly   12/31/06 Hi Tom, <<Hi, again, Mercedes.>> Thanks so much for your wisdom.  He seems to have relaxed quite a bit since yesterday.  I should clarify two things: my filter is actually a small volume model from Toms that can be placed under gravel, but is not a real UGF.  It has two-stage filtration and I had removed the charcoal.  The other is that I have already added the salt (non-iodized), which I had forgotten when taking the nitrate readings.  I had a "Eureka" moment this morning when I visualized the water test colour gauge, which shows darker shades of pink for salt water at lower ppm.  I cleaned out the filter, put the charcoal back in and vacuumed the gravel yesterday in both tanks, and moved two of the live plants to the other tank.  The nitrate test came back at between 5 and 10 ppm for freshwater, which would be under 5 ppm for salt water.  I'm going to check again today and in a few days for stability.  If all is well, I'll revert to weekly nitrate testing and weekly cleanings.  In a 2.5 gal tank, how much water should I be changing weekly? I've read suggestions of 10 to 50%. <<I would go no higher than 25% with the changes here. Anything in excess of about 30% should be reserved for problems with water parameters. Beyond that, all sounds quite good.>> Also, I notice that when fresh water is added to the tank and a Betta is in it, tiny air bubbles attach themselves to him in various locations.  Since velvet is so hard to detect, I've used this as an indication that I may or may not have a problem, though it could be another parasite that's also not easy to spot.   <<Whenever there's a water change, gases along with oxygen are introduced into the tank. One of the reasons why we recommend against large water changes on a regular basis. In connection with this, the salt in the water increases surface tension resulting in smaller bubbles than you'd find in pure, fresh water. (A key ingredient to why protein fractionators work in marine tanks much more efficiently than they will in freshwater tanks.) Less air in the bubbles means they're not as prone to rise quickly to the surface and will adhere to surfaces below including fish (organics have an affinity for air -- another principle of protein skimming). Certainly not an issue unless you happen to be trying to closely observe for problem indicators, right?>> This is not my preference as it's quite a bit of turbulence, which I understand is stressful for Mr. Betta. However, I'm happy to say that both of my guys had very few air bubbles attached to them yesterday after the water change, so I think all is well.  My tri-colour with the white and purple body, which easily shows velvet, is looking almost clean again and is back to blowing bubble nests.  (He came from the same location as the one with bad velvet, but was not as badly infested or affected).  Am I crazy? <<Well, I'm not a 'shrink' but I don't think so. :) Sounds to me like you're understandably concerned is all. Been there myself actually.>> Again, thanks for your help. <<Happy to do so, Mercedes. Tom>>
Re: New Betta in 2.5 gal cycled tank breathing rapidly   1/3/07 Hi Tom, <<Happy New Year, Mercedes.>> Thanks for that info.   <<Happy to share.>> Unfortunately, my worst fears were justified.  The velvet finally appeared on his body and fins 2 days ago.   <<So much for my optimism.>> I now understand why my LFS sent the new guy home with me in a Methylene blue bath.  I thought they were just being careful, but now that I think of it, the other CTs from that shipment had what I now know are telltale signs of velvet (those little dark spots on the fins, even if you can't see the gold dust).   They saw something I didn't.   <<Like sending your new puppy home in a body cast. Wonderful'¦>> I'm treating with Jungle Velvet Guard, and the rapid breathing has stopped.  He's still eating (though I am feeding him one Bio-Gold pellet every two days right now, and will switch to frozen daphnia and krill to keep up the fibre as he's a bit constipated) and has become more active in the past 36 hours.   <<Good.>> I raised the temperature to 85 degrees as slowly as I could (it was 82 two days ago).   I understand temps that high weaken the parasite.   <<To a degree (no pun) but the key to higher temperatures is really to speed up the life cycle of the parasite and hit the juveniles with the anti-parasitic med's as quickly as possible. Ultimately less stress on the fish in more ways than one.>> The tank is also surrounded by brown paper to keep out natural light (there is no hood light).  The next treatment will be tonight. Should I continue treating for 10 days (as I have read the lifecycle of velvet is the same as Ich -- 10 to 14 days), or would less be sufficient with such a high temperature? <<Treat for the full 10 days, Mercedes. You're correct about the lifecycle mimicking that of Ich. Not the only similarity, by the way. In propagation behavior, they're nearly identical. Let's leave nothing to chance here and follow the manufacturer's instructions to the 'T'.>> Thanks, and Happy New Year! Mercedes <<Again, Happy New Year and good luck! Tom>>
Re: New Betta in 2.5 gal cycled tank breathing rapidly   1/4/07 Thanks Tom.   <<You're welcome, Mercedes.>> Now for another problem: nitrites were between 0.3 and 0.8 this morning, having dropped a bit from closer to 0.8 last night when I did the 25% water change for the meds.  I can only guess that the Jungle Labs Neutroflavine is having an effect on the biological filter along with the other ingredients.   <<Agreed.>> I have double-dosed with Cycle (which I understand is not the best, but they claim the formula has been improved) twice since doing the 25% water change per Jungle Lab instructions. <<I'll withhold comment until I research this, Mercedes. Things change in the hobby and I don't want to give an opinion based on old information. (Cycle used to be worthless but made big bucks purporting that it was the end-all, be-all of cycling products.)>> I will check again tomorrow morning, and do another 25% change and re-dose with meds tomorrow night and add more Cycle the following morning.  (This is reminding me of taking pro-biotics after taking anti-biotics to help restore the good bacteria.) <<Ain't that the truth! Think BIO-Spira (Marineland).>> Is this enough to keep the nitrites from being too damaging? <<"Any" nitrites are damaging. The key is to keep them to a minimum, or eliminated entirely.>> I have also added another 1/4 tsp of salt to mitigate the nitrite effects. Any thoughts? <<Yep. Salt won't mitigate the effects of nitrites. Nitrites combine with hemoglobin in the blood. In effect, the blood is starved for oxygen. Displaced actually. Salt, by electrolytic effect, allows the gill tissue to take in oxygen more efficiently. Nitrites combine with the oxygen. Catch-22, if you will, if nitrites are in high presence. The upside is that your nitrite levels are >1. Salt "might" mitigate this to an extent, but don't wager your fish's life on it.>> Thanks, Mercedes <<Good luck, Mercedes. Please, keep me posted. Tom>>
Re: New Betta in 2.5 gal cycled tank breathing rapidly    1/5/07 Hi Tom, <<Hello, Mercedes.>> Good news is that the velvet seems to be disappearing from Mr. Betta's fins, leaving them shredded, but hopefully they'll recover with time.   <<I'm happy for both of you! The fins will regenerate/heal as time goes by with good conditions.>> He's back to hanging out in the corner at the top of the tank, but still has an appetite.  The rapid breathing also is totally gone.   <<He's been through a lot so I wouldn't be concerned about where he's hanging out as long as his appetite is good and the breathing has slowed and stabilized.>> Are the nitrites high enough to make more of a water change tomorrow night, say 35%?  They're holding steady at 0.3 ppm, and nitrates are around 10.  (My other tank is 0, 0 and 5, so I know it's possible!) <<The nitrite levels have to come down, Mercedes, so a larger water change is in order. If these, or ammonia levels, are detectable, they're too high. No such thing as safe levels of either.>> I'm half way through the 5 day treatment cycle. <<I'm betting you'll be happy when this is over. You're doing a great job of staying on top of this. Keep up the good work.>> Thanks, Mercedes <<Any time, Mercedes. Tom>>
Re: New Betta in 2.5 gal cycled tank breathing rapidly    1/5/07 Thanks for your support, Tom. <<No thanks necessary, Mercedes. You're doing an excellent job.>> My only concern with a larger water change is decreasing the effectiveness of the meds. The Jungle Labs container says 25% water change before re-dosing.  If I go higher, should I compensate by increasing the dose, or do the meds dissipate after 48 hours anyway?  I'm just not sure how stable this formula is.  I would be happy to do a 50% change to get the water parameters closer to normal if I thought it was OK.   <<Let's simplify this. A 50% change would require double the dose as with a 25% change -- and I didn't need a calculator for that, either -- so why not go that way and decrease the chance of error. Where your nitrites are concerned, a little bigger will be better, anyway.>> Next change is due at 11:30 pm EST tonight. Thanks as usual,  Mercedes. <<You're welcome, as usual, Mercedes. Tom>>
Re: New Betta in 2.5 gal cycled tank breathing rapidly   1/8/07 Hi Tom, <<Hi, Mercedes>>> I thought you might be interested in this info from Jungle Labs: Hello Mercedes, Thank you for your inquiries about Jungle(r) products. We are happy that you have chosen our products to use in your aquarium to help you maintain the best possible environment for your fish and plants. Although the Nitrofurazone in the Velvet Guard(r) medication stays active for about 4 days, but the other ingredients break down earlier. If it has been 48 hours since your last dose, you can go ahead an make the larger water change you are planning and just use a full dose again. As the active ingredients break down, they can indeed produce some nitrogen by-products, which would explain your elevated nitrite readings. They are not alarmingly high, though. Adding a little aquarium salt to the tank will help keep your Betta safer by giving nitrites some competition for absorption into his body. An initial dose of ½ teaspoon of aquarium salt is a good idea. After the initial dose, add only more salt whenever you make partial water changes and only enough to salt the amount of water you are changing. Thank you for being a Jungle(r) customer. If you have any problems or need any other information, please do not hesitate to call our Customer Resource Representatives at 1-800-357-7104 or e-mail us at info@junglelabs.com. And don't forget to check out Club Jungle at www.clubjungle.com. Check back regularly for tips and free samples! Sincerely, Karin Fairburn Customer Resource Center Representative Jungle Laboratories Corporation <<Good of the nice folks at Jungle Labs to get back to you, Mercedes.>> In light of this, would I be advised to do 50% changes every time? <<I might argue with products, Mercedes, but not with manufacturers. I don't see where 50% changes would prove to be a problem in this case.>> Also, now that he's feeling a bit better, would a salt dip be a good idea to help with the parasites still on his body? <<Nope. The parasites on his body are immune to treatment. In fact, even after bursting away from the body, they're (largely) immune. (I've come across research that disputes this, to a small degree, but let's not 'split' little hairs.) For our purposes, the only stage that the 'tomites' are vulnerable to treatment is after they've burst from the cysts at the bottom of the tank and are at the juvenile stage of development, i.e. searching for a 'host'.>> (I think I can finesse a very gentle transfer method using a ladle, so he won't be netted.  I would use only 4 c. of tank water, salted with 2 tsp of sea salt, dipping him for 5 to 30 minutes, depending on whether he shows signs of distress.  I can keep the water temperature stable using this volume.  I have used Epsom salt baths to treat constipation in the past, and was successful at not causing too much stress.  I had conditioned him to think it was a good idea being in a small container by feeding him a small part of a cooked pea when he was in there.  I haven't done that with this one yet.) <<A well developed method, Mercedes, and I commend you. The problem is as I've mentioned. You can't kill the little buggers while they're attached to the fish or before they propagate and move about looking for a host to infest. Luckily, at that stage, salt, high heat, you-name-it, will do them in inclusive of not finding a host within a short time.>>> Thanks, Mercedes <<You're welcome, as always. Keep up the good work! Tom>>
Re: New Betta in 2.5 gal cycled tank breathing rapidly  1/9/07 <<Greetings, Mercedes.>> Thanks for the advice, Tom.   <<You're welcome.>> Here's the new problem: he's starting to flash and rub against things again, so I know the Velvet is still really bothering him.   <<Sounds like it.>> His tail is half covered, almost everything except for the tendrils (he's a CT) but they are decaying.  He still has Velvet on his body at the base of his fins and on his lower fins as well, though his tail seems most affected.  When I treated the other fish I had with formalin/malachite green (Quick Cure), the Velvet was gone from his body after 24 hours.  Was this a lucky coincidence, or evidence of an effective treatment? I suspect you'll say it was a coincidence. <<No. Actually, I would call it effective treatment. On the flip side of the coin, we don't know how resistant this strain of parasite might be. Could be that it's more resistant than the last. Not all 'black and white' I'm afraid.>> Tomorrow night is day 10 of treatment.  I would think I need to continue treatment until those on his body dislodge at the very least, and then for 7 days or more after that.  Could this be with salt alone rather than meds?   <<Yes.>> I have read that Velvet's lifecycle is even longer than Ick's, so would 14 days with Velvet Guard, followed by 1/2 tsp of salt per gallon of water be appropriate? <<Therapeutic levels of salt would be on the order of 2-3 tablespoons of salt per five gallons. I'd be looking at more like 3/4 tsps. per gallon.>> I can move the live plants to another tank so I can treat with Quick Cure or an even higher concentration of salt.   I also have AquariSol. <<Add the Aquarisol, with the higher salt concentration, at a daily dosage, per the recommendation, of 12 drops per 10 gallons. If possible, slowly raise the heat by a few degrees as well.>> Should I just be patient, despite the nitrites, which are holding steady at 0.3 ppm apparently because of the meds?  In light of what you've said below, I'm tempted to switch to salt alone and restore the carbon filter to eliminate the med and nitrite stress. <<I would be tempted, also, Mercedes, but this fish has been infected for a week and a half. Let's do this, add the carbon to get rid of the current medication, increase the temperature and salt level for a couple of days. Keep and eye on him and begin treating with the Aquarisol if there hasn't been a noticeable difference. We can't leave him infested much longer. I'm getting a bit concerned about secondary infection which is something we definitely don't need right now'¦or ever.>> Frustration is an understatement. <<I'm with you on that! With acknowledgement to Mr. Einstein, we can't keep doing the same thing and expect different results. We've got to break out of this 'holding pattern' we're in.>> Cheers, Mercedes <<I needn't tell you to keep me posted. My best. Tom>>
Re: New Betta in 2.5 gal cycled tank breathing rapidly  1/10/07 <<Greetings, Mercedes.>> I have the following meds in my arsenal: MarOxy (not useful with this) Melafix, PimaFix, tetracycline, a Neutroflavine and Povidone/colloid mixture (which is packaged as a fungus cure but actually treats bacterial infections rather than true fungus), and Maracyn one and two. <<If this fish doesn't make it, it sure won't be your fault! :) >> The carbon filter is in place, and the 25 watt Elite mini-heater is now at the max, changed from just ever so slightly below the max which gave a temperature of 82-83F.  I'm hopeful it will rise to 85F overnight.   <<In either case, this should do well.>> The tank is covered with brown paper on three sides (the only sides with natural light access).  I will cover the 4th side tomorrow morning.  I would do it tonight but the temperature might rise too quickly.   <<I agree. Temperature 'rises' aren't nearly the problem that 'drops' are but you're reasoning is very sound.>> I could also wrap the tank in a towel to get the temperature even higher if necessary.   <<Shouldn't be necessary here.>> I have added 3/4 tsp of salt (raising the per gallon amount to 3/4 tsp).   <<Excellent.>> Also added some Cycle to help with the bio-filter (haven't managed to find the other product at any local FS as yet).  I will check for nitrites and nitrates tomorrow morning.     <<Sounds good.>> His appetite is still fine, and I'm feeding very lightly on a daily basis (e.g. one dried blood worm, one bio-gold pellet or a small serving of frozen krill -- he doesn't like the daphnia any more). <<Daphnia isn't bad with hot fudge and crushed walnuts but then we've got the 'love handle' issue to contend with. Seriously, the regimen he's on sounds fine and I'm glad he's eating. A very good sign, actually.>> Is this still too much?   <<No. Right now, it's a good 'indicator' for you. Bettas tend to eat like they haven't been fed in a week. If he goes off his food, it'll be a potential signal that what we're doing isn't working.>> I switched back to daily feeding when he got over the constipation.  Have I missed anything? <<Every 'i' and 't' is accounted for as far as I can tell, Mercedes. The rest, now, is going to depend on him. His own immune system, hopefully strong, will determine how this turns out. You've done everything, and more, that I can think of to give him the best possible chance.>> Mercedes <<Should go without saying but, please, keep me posted. Tom>>
Re: New Betta in 2.5 gal cycled tank breathing rapidly  1/11/07 Hi Tom, <<Hello, Mercedes.>> Nitrites are at 0.15 ppm and Nitrates are just above 5 ppm.  Temperature is 86F.  He's still hungry, eating well, and now in a totally black tank enveloped in fleece.   <<Sounds cozy! :) >> 9:30 EST will be 24 hours since the carbon filter went back in and the salt was elevated.  Can I use the nitrites as a measure of residual Velvet Guard?   <<Presupposing all else is as it should be, yes.>> I assume your two day salt therapy suggestion had two purposes: see how he does and let the old meds clear.   <<Actually, the elevated salt levels can be maintained for a while, Mercedes. I'd like to go after this with a combination of the Aquarisol plus salt.>> I strongly suspect I'm going to need the Aquarisol as he's still flashing like mad. <<The elevated temperatures are going to start speeding things up. Lord willing, we're going to start getting some positive results from your efforts.>>    Would tomorrow morning (around 34 hours after carbon) be sufficient if nitrites have dropped yet again?   <<This would be an appropriate amount of time. My approach here is to give him a bit of a break from being medicated with the Velvet Guard. Hard to qualify degrees of stress, though. I've got to think that the infestation is harder on him than the medication is at this point.>> BTW, my Aquarisol is about 4 years old and the active ingredient is listed as Zycosin (soluble copper salts), and the package says it is safe for plants, and says nothing about removing the carbon filter.  This seems odd.  Any thoughts? <<The adsorption of copper by activated carbon is poor (at best) to nil. It needs to be removed by the use of a Poly-Filter, CupriSorb by Seachem or by neutralizing the copper with an appropriate water conditioner which can, then, be mechanically filtered out. Water changes prior to removal will facilitate the process for obvious reasons.>> Cheers, Mercedes <<Stay the course, Mercedes. Be talking. Tom>>
Re: New Betta in 2.5 gal cycled tank breathing rapidly Hi Tom, <<Good afternoon, Mercedes.>> Update: he's stopped flashing and rubbing, the velvet seems to be retreating slowly, and his appetite has improved!  (He's now eating daphnia again.) He is swimming around like a curious Betta again.  No bubble nests, but I think they're in his future.  There are a few new holes in his fins, but I'm confident they will heal.  I'll watch for a few days and add some Melafix if they don't start to heal. <<Nothing I like more than hearing good news! The holes in the fins will heal with a bit of time and the good water conditions you provide. When things settle out a bit, I'd still like to see you keep a 'maintenance' level of the salt going for him. He'll be happier for it and we might just stop something before it ever gets started.>> I diverged from plan A by using Quick Cure (2 drops plus a very little bit more as the water volume is just over 2 gallons).  It almost immediately stopped the rubbing and flashing.   <<Very glad to hear this.>> I will switch to Aquarisol in a few days, restoring the carbon and waiting 36 hours to clear the Quick Cure if the remainder of the velvet has not dropped off his body.   <<The Aquarisol is another item that you might consider keeping at a 'maintenance' level if even for a short while. The weekly dosage can be a great preventative measure.>> Save the holes in his fins, he's acting like a healthy fish with some annoying (to me, anyway) velvet on his body.  Huge improvement! <<Wonderful news, Mercedes. It should go without saying that I'm very happy for both of you!>> As usual, I'll keep you posted. <<I'd like that.>> Cheers, Mercedes <<My best to you. Tom>>
Re: New Betta in 2.5 gal cycled tank breathing rapidly   1/25/07 Hi Tom, <<Hi, Mercedes. Running a little behind. Sorry.>> Finally, I can report almost 100% success: almost all the velvet is gone, nitrites are back to zero (this happened about 5 days ago after hovering at 0.1 for a few days, having dropped from much higher with water changes and removal of Jungle Velvet Guard using charcoal).   <<Wonderful!>> Nitrates are hovering between 5 and 10, and ammonia is 0, of course.  As soon as the nitrites dropped to zero, his fins started to heal and his behaviour normalized.   <<Also, good!>> I will continue to use Aquarisol daily until all the velvet is gone, and then for 7 days after that.  From there on, as you suggested, I will treat weekly, and use salt.  His fins are almost totally healed, his appetite is great, and he's behaving like a normal curious Betta again. <<If he weren't a fish I'd kiss him on the lips! :) >> This has been a struggle. <<Give yourself a huge pat on the back, Mercedes!>> Should there be a next time, it will be Quick Cure and Aquarisol to the rescue, I hope.   <<Once is enough. ;) >> Anyone interested in some Velvet Guard?  Going cheap!   <<Hmmm... No takers, I'm afraid.>> While the Acriflavine may be helpful, the nitrifiers were really unhelpful. <<So much going on with med's, Mercedes. Resistance, et. al. Almost scary...>> Thanks again, Tom.  It's comforting to know there's somewhere to turn in situations like these. Mercedes <<You did all the work! I was just here for moral support...mostly. Glad to hear everything's going well. Tom>>

What's wrong with my Betta? 8/9/05 Hi, I have a Betta fish who recently developed Ich.  I saw tiny white spots on his fins and noticed that he had like a thick white line under his body below his bottom fin.  I treated with Quick Cure <Toxic... Formalin and Copper> and a salt tonic from the fish store.  When I came back from the weekend my fish looked worse.  He doesn't have the spots on his fins anymore; but still has the thick white line and now his fins look like they are coming apart at the ends.  He is laying at the bottom a lot today.  Any ideas? Thank you! Allison <Yes. You need to study... start here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/fwich.htm then the linked files above, then re Bettas... Bob Fenner>

Betta worries - no problems Hi all. <Hello, Lauren, Sabrina here> I've been on the site off and on for the past two hours looking up information on goldfish and Bettas and I am ever so grateful!   <Wonderful to hear, thank you for the kind words!> However, I'm staring at my roommate's new Betta and it doesn't look very good.  I admit my ignorance as to their "normal" appearance and have yet to come across anything so I am now writing for help.  She brought the fish home Thursday night - it had remained in a plastic bag (for transporting) all day.  It looked a bit stressed and the gills were blood red and distended out from behind the gill openings.  This distension has subsided some but their is a bit that remains outside, almost pressed against the scales behind the gills and still very red but membrane thin near the top of the gill opening.   <This is absolutely normal, nothing to worry about.  Males use this membrane to spread and 'flare' behind the gill covers to make them look bigger and tougher on many/most males, this membrane is visible behind and below their gill covers while at rest.  For reference, go to any pet store that has Bettas and take a look at the males' gills.> And tonight I checked on the Betta and their is a white spot (looks like fungus) now on part of the distended gills.   <Keep a very close eye on this - does it look like a grain of sugar?  Or is it fluffy/fuzzy?  Raised?  Or perhaps does it look like it's just part of the color in the fish?> The water condition is pretty good (maybe a little alkaline) <What are your readings for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, and pH?> but it is not an established tank and she doesn't have a filter or heater.   <As long as the room temperature is relatively constant and acceptable, no issues with lack of heater, and as long as regular water changes are done (how often depends partly on the size of the container), a filter is unnecessary.> I treated the tank with Aquarisol as it is all I have available tonight.   <Unless you have reason to believe that the white mark is Ich, I would recommend not using this.  Uhh, just to make sure, the water has been dechlorinated, yes?> Is there anything else I can do?   <Observe, as obviously you are, and try to discern if the mark is part of the Betta's coloration or if it's definitely an abnormality.  You might consider adding aquarium salt (the kind marketed for freshwater aquaria) at about one-third of a teaspoon per gallon.> Would it even help?   <The Aquarisol?  No, not unless you're dealing with protozoan parasites, like Ich.  If you are dealing with fungus, perhaps try Aquatronics' "BettaMax".> By the time we noticed fungus on her last Betta it was much too late... by the next morning the fish was completely covered in fungus and died that evening.   < :(  Sorry to hear that.  I hope all goes well with the new Betta pal!  -Sabrina> Thanks,  Lauren

Betta question Hello, First let me say I'm very intrigued by your site.  Although it has not answered MY question directly, I have gained a lot of knowledge. Now with my situation - Until a couple days ago, my two male Betta fish were in a 2.5 gallon tank w/separator (first attachment).  These are the first fish I've ever had so when I saw tiny little white spots all over them, I panicked.  I had done my homework after my purchase and was aware of "Ich", so I kind of thought that's what it was when I saw it. I've only had the fish for about two weeks now.  In further reading I have came across many columns of advice on how to treat Ich but no one that I can actually talk to.  Anyway, after coming to the conclusion that it was Ich, I went to Petco and was advised to buy some Mardel Freshwater CopperSafe.  I'm sure you're familiar with the product.  I loved the fact that you only had to use it once and it lasts for one month.  However in all of this reading about a hospital tank, although my original tank was only 2.5 gallons I purchased another smaller to serve as a hospital tank.  There are no other fish in the 2.5, but there are a few decorations in the other one and the new one (2nd attachment), is much smaller and clearer.   And now we get to my problem:  The CopperSafe has a ratio of (one teaspoon to treat four gallons).  Now it's easy to assume only 1/2 teaspoon for 2 gallons, but how do you break down the dosage for a small tank like the second one I bought?  I finally broke it down to 4 medicine drops.  I was shying away from using my regular tank because I wanted to keep it clean and dry until my babies are ready to go back in. Also, I've heard that table salt is good for Ick - is this true? Please advise.  Please send responses to this E-mail address & XXXX@hotmail.com. < Get a 5 gallon plastic bucket and fill it 80% full. This will give you approximately four gallons. Put one teaspoon of the CopperSafe into the four gallons of water and use that water to replace the water in the hospital tank and also use it when you do water changes.-Chuck> <<betta2.jpg>>  <<Betta.jpg>> Thanks, Glanatta

Sick Betta, cut the copper Hello all, <Hi there> I'd like to pick your brains if possible, because I'm out of ideas at the moment.  I purchased a Betta in January from a private breeder. This Betta had eaten his tail (I know that he ate it rather than infection because I watched him chase it while I was standing in the store, and the owner had kept his water clean -- there was no tail rot when I got him, he just had a rough trip from Thailand)  Anyway, he was about 5 months old upon purchase, and made leaps and bounds in recovery since I've had him in his own private 1 gallon tank.  His water is completely changed weekly, along with my other Bettas who sit on a table right next to him.  The water temp is kept pretty constant at about 76, the pH hovers between 7.4 and 7.6.  I do use a dechlorinator as directed, and a pinch of aquarium salt on all of them, and none of the others are showing ill effects as if there was something wrong with the water. <Okay> Up till now the sick one had been very active.  I'd noticed in the last week or so that he'd become progressively more sluggish, however, that's pretty much the only symptom. He is pale, fins are a little clamped but healthy, and he is clearly not wanting to move and not eating as of Friday, (normally he's a voracious eater of FD bloodworms and Betta Bio-Gold).  I have done complete water changes on him the last two days, and I put a big chunk of almond leaf, and a drop of Aquarisol in with him in addition.  He shows no signs of fungus, parasites, strange spots, gill inflammation, raised scales, swelling, bloating, actual problems swimming. . . he's just extremely weak and I've lowered the water level in his tank so he can get to the surface easier to breathe. <Mmm, may well be "just" the Aquarisol... I would discontinue the use of this copper product period, maybe add a bit of salt as a cathartic>   He is laying on the plant leaves just below the surface and taking breaths from the air occasionally, but his gills are not moving hard and he doesn't seem to be struggling to breathe.   If anything, I'd say his gills are flapping a little on the slow side.  He has not freely swum since Thursday; when he does move, it is to try to wiggle further onto a leaf to stabilize himself, and he's been this way for coming on 24 hours.  I have on hand Tri-sulfa, but I don't have reason to suspect this is bacterial, and don't want to be harder on him than necessary. I bought him out of pity because he was absolutely in tatters and I wanted to give him another chance when he'd been surrounded by walls full of gorgeous healthy fish, and now I'm heartbroken at the idea of losing him without even being able to identify why.  I've read and reread just about every page Google can find on Betta illnesses, and even fish illnesses in general and nothing matches. If you guys have any ideas what might be going on, or suggestions of other things I could try, that would be absolutely appreciated. Thank you, Brianna <Am not a big fan of copper... many places around the world also avoid its use, using Malachite Green solution instead if there are discernible parasite problems with their Bettas. Bob Fenner>