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French Angel feeding strike 9/26/17
Regal Angel HLLE 3/19/07 Hello Wet Web Crew. I hope all is well. <Quite well, thanks.> I wanted to provide some input (maybe beneficial to some reader out there is the same boat) about a recent experience I had with a Regal Angel and IMO a 'miracle product'. <I usually hate that term but I cheated and read ahead, and am in agreement.> About 6 weeks ago, I obtained a regal angel from a tank at a restaurant that I frequent. The little guy was not looking healthy and had the beginning signs of HLLE. I spoke to the owner of the establishment and provided my observations. I told him that these fish are difficult at best to care for. He explained to me that they have a company come in every two weeks to service that tanks and he would let them know. I went back a week later and the situation was the same. I spoke to the owner and asked if I could take the fish. He agreed and I went the next day (before opening) and got the fish. <Good for you and the owner.> I brought him home and placed him in QT for 3 weeks. <Good to hear.> Initially, I could not get him to eat anything (I believe this also to be the problem at the restaurant). I tried Mysis, frozen angel formula, Nori, flakes, Formula products, fresh shrimp, clams, and squid. He would not eat anything. He would pick at LR, but that is about it. I was out of options, until I was cleaning out a cabinet where I store my dry products and came across some New Life Spectrum Marine Formula pellets. I think that these were about a year old, as I had not been feeding them to any of my tanks at the time. I had nothing to lose at this point and dropped a few in the QT tank. I watched them sink to the bottom and the regal was uninterested. I came back a while later, and noticed that they were gone. I dropped a few more in the tank and the regal went nuts. I started feeding him 3 times a day with the pellets. He was doing so well on the pellets, that I started feeding all of my tanks the pellets. He has now been in my 210 gal main display tank for 3 weeks now and is doing awesome. His color has returned, no signs of HLLE, and he is now eating Cyclop-eeze along with his pellets. Aside form that, all of my fish never looked so good. IMO, the New Life Spectrum line is absolutely amazing stuff. This food should be a staple for anyone who owns a marine tank period. I have also started feeding my sun polyps the small fish formula and they seem to love it also. This stuff is truly incredible. I hope that someone from the New Life Company reads this. They should be proud of this product. Best Regards, Dean Oliver <I agree, I really love this food. All our tanks, both fresh and salt water get this line. Makes a great staple food, some even claim to feed it exclusively, although I still won't go quite that far. But don't minimize your work either, the QTing allowed the fish a chance to start eating which would not have happened if competing with tankmates. Congratulations on your success with this difficult fish and thanks for sharing your story.> <Chris> Majestic Angel Getting "Thin in the Head" - 01/28/07 Hi Crew, <<Hello Jeff>> Love your site and all the wonderful information!! <<Good to know>> I have a beautiful majestic angel that is getting a little thin just above the eyes. <<Likely a nutritional deficiency>> He seems to be very healthy otherwise and eats well. The aquarium is a 210-gallon FOWLR and (with the exception of a little hair algae), is very healthy. I have been enjoying this hobby since the early 80's and to help finance it I worked part time at the LFS for several years. While working at the store I remember the manager always telling us to avoid fish that were "thin in the head" so now I am getting a little worried. <<Indeed>> I have been feeding this fish with a number of foods including frozen angel formula, Nori, Mysis shrimp, plankton, and herbivore pellets. <<A good mix of offerings, but...>> He seems to enjoy just about everything I feed him. Can you tell me what causes this problem and offer some suggestions? <<These type maladies can sometimes be secondary to environmental issues (e.g. - poisoning/less than optimum water conditions...you may want to consider adding some Poly-Filter to your filter flow-path) but this is almost assuredly a case of malnutrition. Even though the fish eats well, there is something (vitamins/essential fatty acids) deficient in its diet. I would continue feeding what you have, but I would make the addition of New Life Spectrum pellets soaked in Selcon to its diet. I can't tell you what it is, but there has been anecdotal proof of the Spectrum pellets allowing some advanced aquarists a measure of success with difficult even impossible to feed (nutritionally) specimens such as Zanclus cornutus. I would also get a vitamin supplement (Boyd's Vita-Chem) and alternate this with the Selcon...the vitamins can also be simply added to the system water and will be taken up as the fish "drinks" its environment>> Thanks, Jeff Jones <<Happy to assist, Eric Russell>> Lost my Conspic :( 7/16/06 Hello WWM Crew.
<Jeff> I had a tragic loss of my Conspicillatus Angel after two
and a half years of healthy living he is gone. I had noticed over the
last 6 months his breathing had increased and he loved the bubbles. His
appetite up until the last day was voracious as usual. I always looked
in the gill plates for any sign of problems but did not see anything
(still bright red and full). When I came home the other night I noticed
his breathing was beyond rapid. I called my fish guy at 11:00 pm to
come over and help. <... some service!> After looking at the
gills again we noticed a huge (about the size of a nickel) white
bulbous growth tucked deep inside the gill plates (because now his
gills were flared wide open to get o2). We agreed that in the morning
we would "cut " whatever it was out <!> to save the
fish because it wouldn't make it if he continued like this.
Unfortunately by 7:00 AM he past away. The fish guy did a post op on
him and said he found a "goiter" in his gill plates, <Not
uncommon> one large one and a smaller one on the other side. I
unfortunately do not have a pic of it but is it common, rare or even
possible for angels to get them (I only saw references on rays and
sharks)? <All vertebrates and some invertebrate groups are subject
to these tumorous growths... Generally associated with endocrine
malfunction, in turn related to a nutritional, chemical deficiency>
or could there have been a copepod or some type of parasite that fits
the bill? <Mmm, this is also a possibility. Would need to examine
the growth> It did look more like a "tumorous" growth than
parasitic but I would hate to search for another beautiful fish like
that and not know what I would be dealing with. Best Regards, Jeffrey
G. Schoor <Sorry to realize your loss... Might I ask, were/are you
of the habit of using vitamin/supplements and/or iodine/ide/ate on a
regular basis? Bob Fenner>
Chrysurus Angel Help 10/4/05 Hi, <Howdy> Oliver Lucanus suggested I drop you an email (Gwen Grignon, one of my staff, also thinks the world of you). <Mmm, and don't know if Gwen Loiselle is still in your employ (one of the retail outlets), and likely we know of each other through my wife, Diana... who distributed Knop Products in N. Am... oh, she is saying that she dealt with Dionne (sp?)> We have, in our shop and all ready for a customer, a large Chrysurus angel. We've had him for almost a month, though he has yet to eat. He spits out everything we try to feed, including (in no particular order): - frozen and freeze-dried krill - brine shrimp - Mysis shrimp - fresh clams - fresh mussels - live sponge from Florida - Nori soaked in garlic, Entice, Selcon - freshwater japonica shrimp - button polyps <I see> We are getting desperate. He is in a 100 gallon holding tank. He started off alone, but we've since added in a yellow tang in hopes that the tang will 'show him how to eat'. <Good idea, technique... I use genus Abudefduf damsels...> Shortly after arrival here (via Quality Marine), he got sick with a parasite looking more like Oodinium than ick, which we treated with Formalin bathes in his aquarium (he was not moved, we just brought him back on system afterwards) with quick, positive results. There is no other medication in the system, and all other fish in the system are healthy. We are willing to try anything to get this poor creature to eat. Do you have any ideas? <A few... you don't mention vitamin supplementation... this addition can really stir feeding at times... on the food, directly to the water... Zoe, Selcon, Microvit... And freshly opened shellfish... like the mussels you mention above... with the shell still on... And, as odd as this may seem, jellyfish (live or preserved), which this angel species consumes quite a bit of in the wild. Cheers, Bob Fenner> Best regards, Brent Mills Big Al's - Montreal, Canada Holacanthus passer losing color 9/2/05 Hello Crew and thanks for all your help in advance. <Welcome> I have a 4 1/2 inch angel for a year now and he has been in excellent condition until the last month. He is now losing color around his mouth, eyes and some small spots up on his head. The best way to describe it is the yellow color around his mouth is becoming translucent and the spots up on his head are yellow where his color was previously dark. <I used to collect this species... know what you're referring to> The areas of change don't appear to be raised or any different than the normal areas of his body and none of his tankmates are effected. Also, all the fish are eating well and acting fine - including the angel. I feed veggie flakes, Spirulina, Mysis, and marine cuisine and use Selcon as a supplement. The local fish store believes it is dietary and I have started butterfly formula and a fresh mussel 1 time per week. <Good idea> I don't see how a dietary deficiency would take 11 months to manifest and now progress in a fairly rapid manner. <Does happen... "something/s" run out> Any suggestions or requests for more information (just to add some information: water parameters are salinity 1.024, PH 7.3, ammonia 0, nitrites 0, nitrates under 10)? Regards, Greg <Mmm, my "second category" guess here would be "water quality" as cause... Having "mud" in your filter, a refugium, a DSB, live macro-algae... would all help. Do you have another system to move this specimen to that has any of these? Could you add a live sump with them? I would. Bob Fenner> - Angel Not Eating after Quarantine - hi there, <Hi.> First of all thanks to Bob Fenner who answered my first email, when I asked for help about disease on my fish. After a year and a half of normal aquarium behavior (and not adding new fishes to my 180 gallon tank) my French angel and emperor got some weird spots on their fins, (they weren't really spots it looked like the fins were dirty) I observed them for a week or longer and they disappeared one day and then came back the other, they didn't show any other symptoms or stress and either were my two percula clownfish showing those signs. I gave the French angel away cause he got too big and didn't come along with the emperor that well. I waited some more days and saw that the emperor was getting weak and was now showing white spots on his fins only, now it was pretty obvious to me that this might be an Ich outbreak and I decided to take them all out and put them in my quarantine tank for treatment and let the main system go follow up for a month or longer. As i have ordered some new fish before the disease broke out, the new fish arrived and I put them in the quarantine as well and treated them all together with CLOUT. It was effective after only a few hours, the emperor looked better and the other fish seemed fine too (the new fish added to the quarantine tank were a false falcula butterfly, a raccoon butterfly and a yellow tang) I treated the fish for some more days and even though the white spots seemed gone they all kept scratching and flashing, which didn't seem like a good thing to me at all. I used the CLOUT medication exactly as it was on the box and after a week treating them i did a 25% water change as I couldn't use the skimmer in the 30 gallon quarantine and it seemed like a lot of bio-load for such a small aquarium to me (besides all the medication added). After a day or two the raccoon and the falcula (and only them) were covered with white spots and I was a little disappointed cause I thought that the medicine should take care of that problem and not allow another outbreak. (ps.: water quality was excellent and I gave them a variety of green foods, algae, brine shrimps and krill - a little bit of each) so I decided to a 50% water change and finally tried to use copper (CopperSafe) as everyone said its so effective. I put the right amount in the water and waited to the next day. But the copper didn't do a thing, it only made it worse, the emperor was pale, covered with white spots couldn't breathe on one side and the two butterflies were pretty bad too, the raccoon became some small rashes on its skin. <Angels have difficulties with copper, and you can't expect results in a day... usually takes two weeks to completely break the lifecycle of Cryptocaryon. Please read here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/ichartmar.htm > I called the dealer and he told me that copper usually takes a few days to work well, but i couldn't wait another few days cause my fishes were getting worse, and another day they would have died, so i performed a freshwater dip on them three and had to add CLOUT again. <You really shouldn't mix medications. I'm not sure what the active ingredients of CLOUT are, but it's bad practice to mix both the copper and CLOUT. You should run activated carbon between medications to make sure the previous one is removed from the water before adding the new one.> I know mixing medications isn't the best idea but they were literally dying from the Ich already so that was the last thing i could do.. <Could be the active ingredient in CLOUT is copper.> next day miraculously they improved a 90%, spots were almost gone, no more scratching, got their color back and breathed normally. I kept using CLOUT till a few days ago until all symptoms finally disappeared (with copper present), then had a 25% water change and put the right amount of copper in the replaced water (without the CLOUT of course, as it wasn't necessary anymore) all fish have been fine, totally recovered from Ich, BUT the emperor lost his appetite and didn't eat for the last 4 or 5 days. I don't know what I could do to improve his appetite (yesterday i changed 15-20% of the water and lowered salinity from 1.021 to 1.019, I heard that this improves the appetite and also prevents a new parasite outbreak) what could i do to make my emperor angel eat again??? <Try some tempting foods - perhaps some open shell fish or similar stinky, meaty item to get the fish interested in food.> thank you in advance for your answers and sorry for the novel... :) best regards, Sandra <Cheers, J -- > Help! blotchy faced Koran Angelfish Hi, I am hoping you can give me some advice. I have a Koran Angelfish that looks like he is experiencing early male pattern baldness. His color was solid all over when I bought him. He picked up Ich about 2 weeks after I brought him home, but freshwater baths and the addition of a scarlet cleaner shrimp did the trick. A few weeks later after he was all cleared up the color on his face area started to look blotchy and turned white in a very evenly matched pattern on his face. He was about 3 1/2 inches when I first bought him and now he's almost double that so he's starting to go through the change of life to adulthood coloration. I have had him for over 6 months now. Water is great, he's happy and eats a balanced diet. He's the master of his own tank (no one is terrorizing him and stressing him out). Any advice as to what this is and what I can do to even out his skin color again? Thanks for your expertise. Jen <Very often, well often enough, the blotchiness you mention in this species is indication of the beginning of HLLE: Please see here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/hllefaqs.htm I would look into augmenting this fish's diet with iodide and vitamins A and D... there are products sold pre-made for this in the pet-fish interest. Bob Fenner> Acclimating Coral Beauty Hello Bob, I have on four occasions now tried to stock coral beauty's in my store but have always had very limited success getting them to feed. I have tried pretty much all of the prepared foods we stock. Do you have any recommendations on getting these guys started? <Yes... in well-established systems with plenty of healthy live rock... and a live sump/refugium in addition if possible. They nibble on algae, sponges, sea squirts in the wild...> All of the ones we received have been from QM and looked great on arrival. I have had great success with other supposedly less hardy dwarf species and am close to putting coral beauties on my "Do Not Order". <It may be that you're spot on here... the source your supplier is using may be "bunk" for this species. If you can, avoid ones from Indonesia and the Philippines... pay more for better specimens from elsewhere in the West-, South-Pacific. Bob Fenner> Thanks, Richard Adult Emperor Angel with hole(s) in the head - getting worse Hello, I have a 6 " adult Emperor who has been in a QT for 10 weeks. First he came down with Ich, then gill flukes (fresh water dips took care of those problems). For the past 6 weeks he has been suffering from HLLE. He has deep holes just around his head and especially around the mouth (nothing along the lateral line, though) and he is getting worse. QT is a 40 gallon with a Remora skimmer, Penguin 300 filtration, 20% water changes weekly, no meds, his diet comprises of mostly Formula II soaked in Zoe, Mysid shrimp w/Zoe once or twice a week, Nori once daily, occasional shaved prawns. I tried Hexamita and it helped him a little bit for a while, but he is worse now. What is wrong? <It sounds like simple HLLE. I would add sponge matter to this diet and perhaps switch your food additives to Boyd's Vita-Chem and American Marine Selcon.> Thank you. <Good luck! -Steven Pro> Queen angel not eating Thought I would let you know what was causing the lack of appetite behavior, apparently my AC was slowly on the outs, when it quit working, I checked the water temp, 87F! <Doh!> Needless to say after adding ice to bring the tank back below 80, these fish started pigging out again! Thanks for your help <Yowsa.... hopefully the drop in temperature was gradual (2-3 days?). A sudden drop in temp can be worse than the drop of the high temps. Please be very alert for an Ich outbreak in the next week and be prepared with a QT tank if necessary (do not medicate in the main display). Best regards, Anthony> Angel wart Bob, I have a Maculosus angel, about 6 inches long, in my 125 gallon tank. About 2 weeks ago I noticed a small lump under his mouth near the gill cover that seems to be growing bigger by the day - right now it is about 1/8" diameter by 1/4" tall. It looks like a wart with a white tip. Could it be some kind of growth or tumor? What should I do for treatment? All my other fishes are doing fine and the water quality is within the acceptable parameters. Thanks for your time. Matt P.S. - I have read several books on marine fish care and yours is the most informative, colorful and entertaining so far! >> Well, thanks for the last comment... and thanks for causing me to get out all my older and latest "fish disease" reference works... To sum up: Idiopathic epidermal proliferation (i.e. the type of tumor you're describing) have no direct cause-effect relationship... many authors cite water "contaminants" as probable cause... and yes, there are incidents and suggestions that when such "neoplasm's" occur on the outer surface of a fish that some sort of surgery might/has proven worthwhile... If it were me though... I'd just attempt to improve and hold steady your water quality, and if (I know the species and it is a good feeder) the animal is still feeding, apply a vitamin, iodine mix (these are made for fish foods as well as humans) lest this be a thyroid issue; to its food immediately before offering it. I wouldn't "try" anti microbials, or anti-Protozoals... And I would try to be upbeat. Bob Fenner Emperor Angel sick? Hello, I just bought a 4-5 inch juvenile coloured Emperor angel a couple days ago and he's just beginning to feed on brine shrimp and Mysid and if there is any other nutritional food that i should be feeding him please tell me.<I would feed your angelfish a mixture of foodstuff...such as Nori-which can be purchased at a grocery store. I feed my angelfish Lifeline (green for herbivores) and I also soak all foodstuff in vitamins.>My problem is that I've noticed an oval shaped brownish faded sore about 1 cm in diameter and from a certain angle it kind of pokes out a little, but not that much. I have heard of white blotches that these guys get when there changing, but I'm not sure if its the same thing. Is this nutritional or a skin disease?<It could be a environmental disease...A picture would help greatly. BTW.. test your water and give me your results.. pH.. nitrates, nitrites, ammonia. SG--Good luck, IanB> Please help me I love these guys sooo much. thanks - Wild Pomacanthus paru with HLLE - Hi crew, a few questions for your collective wisdom, please: I have a 7" French angel and a 5" Atlantic blue tang residing in a 180gal fish only system with several smaller tankmates, to include a 3" queen angel. All were collected and brought back from the Florida Keys in November of '02; at the time, the French was about 6", the tang 2", the queen 2"; they all eat well, the tang the most; after about a month in the tank, the tang developed, within a couple of weeks, significant HLLE, a good portion of the face and a couple of sizeable chunks along the lateral line, both sides; the French developed it at the same time, quickly, between the eyes and back around the head to the first stripe, the pitting being obvious but not deep; the queen remained and is fine; water parameters are ok, with ozone in use. Having never had this problem except long ago with pacific angels, I read through the threads and changed the diet as follows: DAILY: Ocean Nutrition angel formula (frozen); formula two pellets; chopped shrimp alternately soaked in vita chem and Selcon; seaweed select green and brown; I also began adding iodide; to date, all of the tangs lateral line erosion has cleared, as has about 50% of the face; the French looks moderately better, the areas of coverage being the same but the intensity considerably less. Other than this, all three are in great color, fat and happy. My concern is whether there could be something else at work here besides diet, especially considering how quickly it developed; any suggestions as to how I might improve this further might be appreciated. Thanks, Steve. <Well, I think the fact that this fish was wild-collected at size means it was used to a very particular diet which you are not replicating correctly in captivity. Some time in observation of their habits in the wild might give some more clues. I would try at the very least bringing some refugia to bear, producing more of this sponge and vegetable matter live for your fish. You could also cycle more live rock, with some always 'brewing' in a separate vat to be exchanged with rock from the tank when all the fauna has been munched by your angel. Cheers, J -- > Time To Move Her Angelfish? Hello again, <Scott F. here again!> I wrote last week about a bicolor angel that doesn't appear to eat. Scott F. replied with some suggestions. He told me to wait 3 weeks in QT at the time I wrote it had been only 2, well now it is 3 weeks but the situation remains the same. I have never seen this fish eat. It appears healthy, good color, bright eyes, alert, swims all around and hides for a minute when I approach, it also does not look skinny. I have tried all foods: frozen pygmy angel formula, regular angel formula under Scott's suggestion, Mysis, live brine, Spirulina flakes, live rock with algae, red feeding algae and seaweed. Also added vitamins to the water. Water conditions are good in the QT tank. I had freshwater dipped for 5 minutes upon arrival. Now its been 3 weeks and fish seems to be the same as when I got it, doesn't have any signs of parasites, but as far as I know does not eat. There is a cleaner goby in the tank with it who is also very healthy, he has lived in there for 6 months. <I'd put him somewhere else, BTW- a QT is a temporary feature, to be broken down when not in use...> I know this fish doesn't have a very good survival rate depending on collection, etc. My question is whether I should put it in my main tank where I know the living conditions would be better considering I have skimmer, tons of LR, better filtration, more algae growing, and lighting. Or should I not risk putting in a fish that I have never seen eat, but otherwise appears healthy, just in case it is not healthy. <Well, the fact that he appears healthy and fat is a great sign-even though he doesn't seem to eat. If it were me, I'd go the full 3-4 week quarantine period. He's made it this long- one more week should be okay. Believe me, it's worth waiting: I've had fishes get an illness 20 days into quarantine- it can and does happen...Not worth risking infection...Harsh as it may sound- I'd rather risk one fish than an entire system...You're doing fine- hang in there> If the fish is doomed because of its inability to adapt or eat, would it have any better chance in my main tank, or is it pointless, since it has gone at least 3 weeks without eating and probably will not eat. They did say it was eating at the store, but who can believe them. How long should I keep it quarantine, until it eats or dies, or could it be helped by placing in a well established tank with 100 lbs. of live rock? Please advise me. Thank you so much, Kylee Peterson <As outlined above, Kylee- let's give it one more week- then release him into the tank if he appears otherwise healthy. He must be picking at something to remain fat and healthy looking...Stay the course! Do let me know how it turns out, okay? Good luck! Regards, Scott F> Koran Angel question Hi, we have a Koran angel fish that is about 2 years old and is trying to reach its intermediate color phase of life, However, he's not doing so well, his face has turned a whitish color, he has a slightly high breathing rate (approx 108/min), and some whitish stripes are near his tail fin and streak inwards on his body. These whitish streaks on his body and face are not bumps or leaches. Also, he's not eating and tends to just stay in his rocky cove where he sleeps. Any ideas what might be the problem and/or cure? <Mmm, sounds much like the beginnings of HLLE, likely triggered by poor water quality and/or nutrition.> Thanks, we have really grown fond of our Koran Angel and want to see him obtain his adult colors someday. <Please read through the HLLE FAQs here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/hllefaqs.htm and re the species on our site: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/marine/fishes/angels/pomacanthus/koran.htm and the related FAQs (in blue, at top) and check your water quality for nutrient accumulation aspects, spiff up your skimmer, consider augmenting your fish's diet with vitamins, iodide. Bob Fenner> HLLE Hey, My flame angel has a bad case of HLLE and I was wondering the best way to treat it Right now I am using the Zoe formula in the fakes and adding green marine algae every other day. Nothing seems to be helping although the erosion hasn't gotten any worse. I beginning to do water changes (5%) or 2 gall every week from 47 gall and am hopping this will work, only time will tell Thanks for your help and excuse the grammar :) <Hi, Don today. My friend, I am going to make the assumption that you are referring to HLLE (Head and Lateral Line Erosion) if I am wrong then please advise. Increasing vitamins and veggie intake is recommended. You might try and see if the fish will take Nori or soak food in Selcon before feeding. See here for more info: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/hlle.htm. Good luck with your angel, Don> Large Angel health issue Bob, Anthony, please I need help and your expert guidance! I have a 160 FOWL (you guys I am sure remember it), I have a show Queen that has been in perfect health for quite some time, but the other day it started acting disinterested in food (I was feeding raw oysters and have for quite some time with the addition of romaine and some marine dried veggies), it actually started hiding and acted as if it was stunned, when it would come out it would swim in to rocks etc., I changed 60 gal worth of water over several days, none of the other fish have a problem, there are no external signs of disease on the queen, I hit the tank with Maracyn 2 yesterday at the recommended dose, I am seeing more movement and you can tell the fish must be feeling somewhat better, but it still acts as if it cant see at least very well (its eyes are not cloudy), I am wondering if it would benefit from the addition of any type of supplement which contains vitamin A since vitamin is so crucial to a mammals capacity to see, I will continue with the recommended cycle of Maracyn treatment, but wanted to know your thoughts on the vitamin A or anything else you might propose, as always thanks <I would definitely soak this fish's foods in a vitamin, iodide and HUFA supplement. Hopefully this is "nothing" or a passing nutritional deficiency syndrome. Bob Fenner>
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