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Angel Stocking Pomacanthus/Systems 2/26/09 Hi
There, <Hello Thai> I currently have a 96" by 30" by
30" salt water set up with sump. Was just wondering if I can house
an Emperor Angel and Blue Ring Angel for life. <With a 375 gallon
tank, I'd say you would have a good shot at it.> Also wondering
if I can stock other fish with it such as Chromis, tangs and
butterflies. Will there be any issue with compatibility, and what type
of bio load would they produce. <Should not be any problems here,
just watch your stocking level.> I believe I've got adequate
filtration to house them but would like your opinion on the matter.
<Adequate doesn't tell me too much. Pomacanthus Angel Fish
require vigorous circulation and high water quality. Do read links
here.
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/marine/fishes/angels/pomacanthus/imperator.htm
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/marine/fishes/angels/pomacanthus/Pomacanthus.htm
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/marine/fishes/angels/angelcompafaq.htm
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/marangsysfaqs.htm > Thanks in advance.
<You're welcome. James (Salty Dog)> Thai Pham Re: Purchasing an Established Majestic Angel/Also...... update: Eric R. & James (Salty Dog)? 02/21/09 Greetings to you all, <<Hello again April>> Eric Russell requested an update on my situation regarding purchasing an established 8" Majestic Angel from the taco shop. <<Ah yes? Thank you for this>> James (Salty Dog) also replied to my query, so this is to both. <<Will share?>> Thank you kindly for your wise, generous feedback on this issue. <<We are pleased to help>> It proved invaluable. <<Ah!>> I decided not to get the Majestic. <<Oh?>> I fed my brood, and was reminded with all of the fish colors whizzing around that my occupants are a pretty lively bunch at feeding time. I went to the shop to see how the Majestic ate, and saw that he swam like a sea turtle. I'm afraid he wouldn't have a chance at a good meal with my group. <<Hmm?>> He is so used to his cramped quarters; I feel he'd suffer some hunger over here until (if ever) he got the hang of how feeding time works with us. He's in there with a Blue Hippo, a Jawfish, a Yellow Tang, and some Blue Chromis. Getting him out of his established home would be stressful on him as well as the Blue Hippo, would hate to trigger Ich. <<I think the Angel would learn to get its share of food? and would also likely become ?king fish? in your system. And yes, fishing the Majestic out of the display would be stressful to all in the short-term? And may well result in the need for some treatment to all re?but it would also measurably improve the environment for those fishes remaining? Assuming the owner of the tank didn't throw another large species in to take the place of the Majestic Angel. But no worries? Is your decision. And it is also possible the Majestic may well already be ?damaged?? Attributed to living/growing up in the too small system (possibly both physiologically and psychologically)>> His home is too small, but I'll just leave him where he is and get a nice 4" French Angel I see at my shop. <<A wonderful aquarium species? And 4? is a great size for introduction to a captive system. These are beautiful fish? a mature adult is even more attractive than the juveniles, in my opinion. This Pomacanthus species does get considerably larger than the Majestic (18? for the French vs. 12? for the Majestic? In the wild), but should do fine in your 300g display if not too crowded (either with too many other fishes and/or too much structure/live rock)>> Bob rates the French pretty high for hardiness, so that's a much better choice. <<Much agreed>> I actually have been feeding my fish those New Life Spectrum pellets for 2 years now along with 5-6 other types of foods. <<Excellent!>> Thanks Eric! My local shop highly recommended them when I was first setting it all up, so it was great to read that you endorse them, as well. <<Indeed I do? and very highly at that! In addition to my fishes being vibrant, VERY colorful, and healthy which, in addition to other elements obviously, I attribute to their acceptance/feeding of this highly palatable and nutritious pelleted food. I also have a ?spawning? pair of Macropharyngodon meleagris that eat the Spectrum pellets with gusto. There is no doubt in my mind that this difficult-to-keep species? social development, indeed their very survival for more than four years now, is due in no small part to the inclusion of the New Life Spectrum pellets in their diet. But enough of the fish food commercial [grin]>> My Coral Beauty and Bi-Color Pygmies are so fat and colorful from that food. <<Ah yes!>> This Majestic's home situation taught me a good lesson about the careful and conscientious stocking decisions Bob and the rest of the Crew teach all the time. <<Though they may sometimes seem harsh, and considering the broad audience and experience levels that view these recommendations/comments are often a bit reserved and leaning to the side of caution, we really do have the best interests of the livestock? And the hobbyists? In mind>> So much more thought and planning must go into your system than just the dazzling looks of a show specimen. <<Indeed? Impulse buying dooms more animals than many can imagine>> Thinking long term is the way to start out. <<Yes? always>> Thanks again for all of your time and attention! <<Is a pleasure to share>> I'm sure this French Angel will work out great. <<Magnificent fish?yes indeed>> April <<All the best my friend. Eric Russell>> Puffer ques., incomp. with large angel 12/22/08 HI, I have a 10" Mappa puffer that has been picked on by a juv emp. angel that recently joined him in the tank. <Happens...> The angel used to just pick at him once in a while, but it has gotten drastically worse. <These animals need to be separated. Stat!> The puffer's belly is now riddled with eraser sized bites that look like they are becoming infected. I moved him to the fug' , and he is still eating, but I am worried. I will make up a quarantine tank tomorrow. <Is this larger than the refugium? If not I would not move this fish... too likely to be even more stressful, polluted...> With out looking at the fish, can you give me some insight as to what my next step should be? A dip of some sort? <Mmm yes... and no dip. Just time going by in better circumstances> The display tank is too big to treat and filled with live rock. Because he is eating and not showing any signs of distress, I don't want to treat with anything too severe, I just need a plan of attack, as to divert any chances of this becoming worse. Thanks, Marc <Another happier place. Bob Fenner> Pomacanthus arcuatus (Gray Angelfish) 3/28/08 Hi folks, I recently had emailed you guys to ask about an adult gray poma that wouldn't eat. You suggested I try New Spectrum food, got some, it didn't work either. This angel is still in a 55 gallon quarantine tank, all levels are excellent - even the nitrates barely show up. Here's the thing, it has been over 3 weeks and I have not seen this fish eat anything. I have tried that spectrum food, Mysis, brine, bloodworms, formula one, prime reef flake, Nori, smashed carnivore formula on a piece of coral - nothing. He swims toward things sometimes but literally moves his head out of the way. I have seen food hit him in the mouth - nothing. He is in a tank with several damsels ( they keep the tank cycled ) and a Hawkfish. They all eat like pigs and I was hoping the angelfish would learn from them - nope. How long can a fish go without eating or at least not eating in front of me? <About as long as you have had him now, hopefully it is still alive.> There is live rock in the tank but it doesn't have much growing on it besides I have never seen him pick at the rock. This is getting frustrating since I have kept several more difficult angelfish. I currently have a 7 year old Japanese Swallowtail and a 3 year old Majestic. I raised an Emperor from juvie to adult and actually gave him to a friend with a 220 gallon tank so he'd have more room, I had him for over 5 years. <Great.> In the last 20 years I have raised angels from juvenile to adult many times, had a pair of Coral Beauties for 4 years ( even spawned once) so I am no novice. And that is my frustration, why is this fish so picky and what else can I try to get a feeding response? I am out of tricks. I really don't want to see this fish die although he doesn't seem to be getting thin yet. Thanks for any advice. <As you probably know, the Gray Angelfish isn't one of the easiest to acclimate, especially being adult size. Seems like you have tried all the foods that would entice him to eat, but unfortunately he is not. This is just one of those fish that refuses to acclimate. Probably too late now, but improving the purity of the water will sometimes trigger a feeding response. One of the best ways is by use of Chemi Pure in the system and/or frequent water changes. This has worked for me a few times. James (Salty Dog)> Rob M. Syracuse, NY Chrysurus Angel Discoloration 1-20-08 Hi. <Hello. Yunachin here.> I've tried to look for an answer to this weird patches on my Chrysurus Angel but I cant find anything about it. I don't know what it is I think it might be going through a change in face pattern or growth in coloration. But it has looked like this for over 4 months now. The face gets better and then worse and it repeats itself. I'm dosing the tank with all the vitamins I can find, but it doesn't seem to do any good. I'm sending 2 pictures with this any help is greatly appreciated! <I did not receive your pictures, you may try resending them. Thanks --Yunachin> Morgan Two more questions. Orange Shoulder Tang beh., Chrysurus A, beh., HLLE? 11/25/2007 Thanks again Bob. <Welcome Steven> Two more questions and then I won't bother you (at least for a while). I have two fish that I wanted your opinion on their coloration. First I have a Orange Shoulder tang that I bought about 1 1/2 years ago that was / is a juvenile about 3.5" long. <Neat animals> He has grown maybe to 4" but is still yellow. He has the outline where the orange oval will appear but that is about it...no signs of wanting to change and doesn't grow very fast. How long would you guess until he begins his adult color change? <A bit longer... perhaps a half to a full year. This fish is right about where such changes occur size-wise. Am in the process of sorting some of the genus Acanthurus tangs FAQs, including this one... and am out in HI currently... where most of this species are collected for the trade> Second question is I have a Chrysurus (sp?) angel and have had him for about 1 year. He is approximately 5" long and has recently started to turn color around his mask (head area). At first I thought it was some sort of fungus, but have seen a few photos on the web and have seen the exact same marking, but these photos also only show the head area to have this coloration. Will he change completely or will this be the extent of it? <Only time can tell here> It kind of doesn't look as pretty as he did before this change, but if the entire body turned this kind of yellow/tan color it would look nice. <There often is a bit of lightness, a sort of mask with this change... I do want you to consider the possibility that this might be HLLE... Please read here: http://wetwebmedia.com/hllefaqs3.htm and the linked FAQs files above. Bob Fenner> Your input is greatly appreciated. Thanks, Steven
Blue Ringed Angel... hlth. - 7/23/07 Hi
Again. I Just bought a 3-4 inch Blue Ringed Angel yesterday and have
him alone in a 29 gallon QT tank and will be putting him in a 135 once
QT is up in a month. He looks good but his left fin he wont use?
Besides being damaged by a net what else can cause this? <A type of
behavior thought to provide avoidance of predation... "Don't
eat me, I'm sick"> I used your search and didn't find
anything when I typed in Angel wont use left fin. Also still seems
scared and wont eat seaweed or krill yet. Didn't notice this when I
bought him. I love the large Angels and would love to get one to
thrive. I was told the Blue Ringed are very hardy? <Amongst the
generally hardiest> I haven't had much luck with them after
trying with a Koran and a Emperor. My girlfriend thinks Im pryraniod. I
just cant seem to get these guys to do good. Thanks for the help! Rick
<Mmmm... better for you to read re these species... and all
others... in advance of trying them. Please see on WWM. Bob
Fenner> Large Angel, sel. 4/22/07 Hello everyone <Matt> I been wanting to get a large angel for awhile and not to sure on which would be best for my system. I have a 200 gal that's 2'W X 2'H x 7'L. 120lb+ of LR, 40 gal refugium, Coralife Needle Wheel Skimmer rated for a 220 gal, and 3 XP3's. I have a 16" Panther Grouper, 5" Foxface Lo, 8" Spiny box Puffer, and a 4" Sargassum Angler & very peaceful. I really wanted a Queen angel but after reading your site I see that's not a good idea. And Dwarfs stay too small and might end up as lunch. Maybe a Koran or a Blueface? <The former is a far better choice... much more likely to live> I didn't see to much about the Blueface <I lumped this species with its two subcongeners (the subgenus Euxiphipops) as they're all about the same in terms of use, husbandry. Please read here: http://wetwebmedia.com/marine/fishes/angels/pomacanthus/euxiphipops.htm and the linked files above.> but I did read some about the Koran. And I been eyeballing LiveAquaria and they have had a large adult Koran that's 5" to 7" for $130 over a month now, plus they have had a 8"in there Divers Den section for awhile too. I know you should get one around 4" but my LFS wants doesn't guarantee there SW fish and LiveAquaria has a great one. Any advice would be great! Thanks Matt Owens <Mmmm.... well... your tank is going to be very full... and by and large it is better to pick a sub-adult Pomacanthid... Bob Fenner> P. imperator in 8x2x2. Mixing Pomacanthus sp. 4/5/07 Hi Bob / Crew, <*Best Tom Leykis impression;* Hellooooo Matt!> Well I am finally setting up my 8x2x2 tank <Awesome.> - it will be a reef tank or sorts with LR, shallow 'sugar fine' sand bed, good flow and aggressive skimming (large Deltec skimmer). <Sounds good so far...> Corals will be chosen to suit fish, contrary to the usual 'visa versa' practice. <Nothing wrong with that as long as it planned ahead and thought out, as you are doing.> The concept being two large "hollow" mounds (islands) standing 12"-15" or so high, with a couple of branching sps corals growing on top, allowing plenty of swimming space in-between, around and under the islands/corals. <Okay.> The pivotal species will be Pomacanthus imperator. <Amazing and long lived when provided the right environment...needed space.> My hope is to get a 3" juv. (preferably red sea) and grow him on to a decent sized adult (12"+). Rather than the usual practice of trying to squeeze in half a dozen triggers, wrasse, tangs, and groupers, I would much rather just have a couple other medium to large tank mates, along with a few low impact species like gobies, damsels and Hawkfish to "fill in the gaps". <...And by doing so you (and your pets) will be much happier in the long-term.> The two tankmates I had in mind were P. navarchus (majestic angel) and Acanthurus leucosternon (powder blue tang). <*Personally* I would rather leave out the first choice. I've rarely seen two different species from this genus (Pomacanthus) work out together long, cohabitating without violent aggression in even the largest tanks. As for the surgeon, this species (and Acanthurus in general) are prone to protozoan illness, Cryptocaryon and the like. Attain a healthy specimen that is readily eating...bright, alert of surroundings and quarantine it for no less than one month.> The plan would be to introduce the two angels simultaneously after first quarantining in a 48"x12"x12" with a clear divider for 6 weeks, each angel at about 2-3" (at this size the navarchus would probably be adult colours and slightly bigger), and introduce the powder blue 6-8 weeks later (after suitable quarantine). MY hope would be that is this low stocking environment that the emperor and majestic would grow together and live in harmony, the emperor slowly outgrowing the majestic, then the powder blue, such that I would end up with a 12"emperor, 8-10" majestic, and 6-8" powder blue. Does this sound a feasible plan? <It is surely planned out and very thoughtful, I have to give you that. I have seen this attempted in much less suitable environments. You would have an increased chance in succeeding with such a plan...and it would probably work short-term, however I feel in the long-term as their personalities emerged that there would be some issues.> Am I being over cautious with the stocking plan - would I get away with adding a couple of other small-medium sized fish i.e. maybe a yellow tang or yellow long nose Bfly or a flame angel ..... a couple of fish that sort of size. <In a tank of this size, there would be more physical room...yes, the territorial/psychological crowding is the issue. If you are going to go for the two Pomacanthus angels, I would avoid any other angels all together (even the flame....Centropyge/dwarfs). But I much preferred the above options you mentioned instead....smaller Gobioids and such.> Or is my conservative approach with the 3 aforementioned species much better? <Conservative, as far as livestock goes is always better in my experience.> Your thoughts / comments are as always appreciated. Regards, <To you as well.> Matt <Adam J.> Re: Mixing Pomacanthus sp. ? 04/16/07 Thanks for your previous reply - I've gone, sulked a little, and given my brain a chance to realize what I already knew :-) <Sorry, but I'd rather you hear it from me than to learn the hard way through a painful experience with dead fish...that's never fun.> Just to recap, the tank is 8x2x2 - and I was proposing a navarchus imperator / powder blue as the only "big" or territorial inhabitants. <I remember....didn't...still don't recommend mixing the angels.> Having decided against the angel combo, I am leaning toward a more traditional approach rather than trying to reinvent the wheel. So, I am going to go for the single Pomacanthus - still undecided if that should be imperator or navarchus.... but for the purpose of this discussion I'll assume I go with the bigger imperator........tankmates: P. imperator Pink tail trigger Purple Tang Regal Tang yellow Longnose butterfly <Better, as far as the tangs, add the Paracanthurus (Regal Tang) before the Zebrasoma (Purple Tang) or at least simultaneous addition.> To add a splash of "red" I was considering including a trio of fairy/flasher wrasse - or maybe a half dozen lyre tail Anthias. Does this sound like a more feasible plan for long term success. <Yes much better than the last, but do be sure to research the needs, go slow and quarantine.> Cheers, <Adam J.>
Blue line angel... sel... Ignorance 7/28/06 Hello, I live in corpus Christi and I went to Houston and bought a Big BLUE LINE ANGEL. <Best not to buy "big"...> She has developed cloudy eyes and will not eat and stays up in the corner of the tank and she shakes every now and then. She also floats on one side. I think I am going to loose her. <And likely lose this fish as well> She has not eaten anything. <...> I have stayed up with her one night all night just to see if she would eat when the lights were off but nothing. <? Pomacanthids don't eat at night...> Please help me. Also I wanted to know if a fish had a bacterial infection <What?...> if it rubbed on another fish would that fish get sick and die also? <Where do folks get such notions? How can people get by with such ignorance of simple biology? Physics, chemistry? Do my fellow citizens know more about Oprah than reality?> Thanks, Kim <Where to start here? Have you read our archives on Marine Angels? Selection, Disease? What did you think re buying a "big" specimen? Please read what is posted. RMF> One Gill Fish? Or One Fish Gill? Like Breathing With One Lung 10/7/05 In my many years of 'fishing' I have never seen this happen & could not find it on your (awesome) web site. <There are a few accounts of this there, of Pomacanthids> I noticed last night my Emperor Angel is only using one of his gills ! The left side appears to be closed (stuck?) <No... is "on purpose", sympathetic nervous control> He seems to be swimming and eating normally, at least for the time being. I don't know what could have caused this and is there anything I can do?? Don't want to stress the fish . Any advice is greatly appreciated . Thanks, Carol <"Don't panic" as Doug Adams might write... Will be fine. Bob Fenner> Chrysurus Angel Help 10/4/05 Hi, <Howdy> Oliver Lucanus suggested I drop you an email (Gwen Grignon, one of my staff, also thinks the world of you). <Mmm, and don't know if Gwen Loiselle is still in your employ (one of the retail outlets), and likely we know of each other through my wife, Diana... who distributed Knop Products in N. Am... oh, she is saying that she dealt with Dionne (sp?)> We have, in our shop and all ready for a customer, a large Chrysurus angel. We've had him for almost a month, though he has yet to eat. He spits out everything we try to feed, including (in no particular order): - frozen and freeze-dried krill - brine shrimp - Mysis shrimp - fresh clams - fresh mussels - live sponge from Florida - Nori soaked in garlic, Entice, Selcon - freshwater japonica shrimp - button polyps <I see> We are getting desperate. He is in a 100 gallon holding tank. He started off alone, but we've since added in a yellow tang in hopes that the tang will 'show him how to eat'. <Good idea, technique... I use genus Abudefduf damsels...> Shortly after arrival here (via Quality Marine), he got sick with a parasite looking more like Oodinium than ick, which we treated with Formalin bathes in his aquarium (he was not moved, we just brought him back on system afterwards) with quick, positive results. There is no other medication in the system, and all other fish in the system are healthy. We are willing to try anything to get this poor creature to eat. Do you have any ideas? <A few... you don't mention vitamin supplementation... this addition can really stir feeding at times... on the food, directly to the water... Zoe, Selcon, Microvit... And freshly opened shellfish... like the mussels you mention above... with the shell still on... And, as odd as this may seem, jellyfish (live or preserved), which this angel species consumes quite a bit of in the wild. Cheers, Bob Fenner> Best regards, Brent Mills Big Al's - Montreal, Canada Juvenile Chrysurus 27 Jul 2005 I have a juvenile Chrysurus angel that is probably about the size of a quarter. I didn't mean to get him so small.<Hi Brandon, MacL here with you today. No worries on the size as long as we can get past the barrier of getting him to eat.> I ordered him on the net from Marine Center, so I know the fish was properly cared for. That said, I've had him for about 2 to 3 weeks. He hasn't eaten any prepared foods, and that includes live brine. He is constantly picking at the rocks however, showing somewhat of a feeding response. <If he is constantly picking he is probably eating copepods found in the rocks. He is more than likely getting enough to sustain him but unless you have a way to refill what he eats or you reseed the tank with pods he will eventually wear out the supply. There are many places that you can buy pods to restock or you can use this time to get him eating other things. One of my new favorites is www.seapods.com. A new business that sells beneficial pods to help replenish.> There are no fish in the 125G tank to pick on him. <Does that mean there are no other fish at all or just that no one there will pick on him? Often they can learn to eat other foods based on examples from other fish.> He has now developed a large white clump on his left pectoral fin. It looks very large, too large to be Ich. <Sounds to me like it might be Lymphocystis, you might check the site to determine if it is. If so good water conditions should take care of the problem.> I'm worried that his immune system may be compromised from not eating. <Perhaps just a bit stressed from being a small tyke and shifted.> Any ideas of what to feed when live brine won't work? <Lots of stuff might appeal to him. He might eat mussels cracked open. He might eat Mysis either frozen or live. Did you contact the marine center to ask them what he was eating while there. I have had a lot of success with fish not eating by putting garlic on the frozen foods. Seems to encourage them to eat.> He chases it, only to look and not eat. <Good luck, MacL> Thanks. Question About Pomacanthus annularis - 06/05/05 First of all, let me say that I think your website is wonderful, and I've read your book cover to cover. <<Hello Steve, Eric R. here today, and I assume you're referring to Bob's book...excellent reading it is.>> I've gained much knowledge from reading the FAQs and your readers' questions. <<Yes...much to be found/discovered among these pages.>> This started as my wife's hobby, but I found myself helping out allot, especially in the LFS. I guess I'm a good listener so I've been able to help my wife decipher what the LFS sales guys are saying. I also refurbished the filtration system on an old 125 that I bought used, so I guess I'm becoming a hobbyist. <<Tee hee! Does go that way sometimes. Hopefully you're enjoying the involvement.>> Finally, I have a question for you. Currently, I have a fish only 125 gallon marine aquarium with the following fish. <<Wait! What's this "I" stuff? Thought you said this was your wife's hobby <Big Grin>?>> Clarkii Clown, Flame Hawk, Niger Trigger, Green Bird Wrasse, Hippo Tang, Wolf Eel Blenny Some of the sales people are telling my wife she can have a dozen or so fish (or more if they're small). <<Not surprising to hear, but, stocking a tank is MUCH more involved than basing numbers on the size of the tank and the size of the fish. Factors such as hardiness, activeness, temperament/compatibility, etc. must be considered. Each addition must be researched carefully, and any decisions on size should be based on the fishes SIZE AT MATURITY.>> She is definitely wanting to add an Annularis angel. <<Ahh...Pomacanthus annularis...beautiful fish.>> I'm thinking that this would still be ok, but we should probably not add any more after this. Do you think there's room for an Annularis? I realize the tang and trigger can get very large <<and that bird wrasse grows to a foot on the reef.>>, but they're both still quite small. Your input is much appreciated. <<To be honest Steve, I'm hesitant about this mix of fish. The tank is large enough for the angel (though at a mature 20" I would prefer to see it go in to a tank twice this size) but will become quite crowded as all these large fish grow. I think all would be happier/healthier in the long run without the tang or the trigger; my vote would be to remove the Hippo Tang (too skittish and disease prone in small systems, IMO).>> Thank you, Steve <<Welcome, Eric Russell>> Annularis Angel, James' go Hey crew, on the last question I forgot to mention in previous email: How do you feel about putting an annularis angel in a 65g FOWLR setup? He will be one of only about three other smaller fish, I really can't seem to find any angels I like that don't outgrow my tank and he's the smallest so I'm really considering him? <I've search a few sites and the Annularis (Blue Ringed Angel) can attain a length of 12'. They are considered hardy as far as the angel family. Myself, I would prefer the Blue Girdled Angel. They would fair a little better in a 65. Your tank size is slightly below borderline for any of these angels as they will grow. James (Salty Dog)> Thanks <<This is a VERY POOR choice IMO... James, see WWM, the web, references re. RMF>> Blue Ringed Angel Hey Jim, blue- girdled angel? That's received a (3) rating and a "difficult maintenance" from everywhere I have researched. So, that angel is HARD to keep and dies often and mysteriously within a month or two. Why would I take my chances on something that has a poor and dismal survival rating. Are you sure you're knowledgeable about this particular thing and you should be replying to emails? And next time try to be a little more professional. <Jay, I probably was in err suggesting that to you. My basis for that lies with other people and myself who have kept them. Together we felt they were not that difficult to keep as far as angels go. No angel is easy to keep. But also keep in mind that all other parameters have to be strictly maintained. That is a 125 or larger, pristine water quality along with 10% water changes and an excellent diet. The tank also needs to be loaded with live rock and been set up at least six months. I'm wrong in suggesting that since I don't know your experience or skill level. Most newbies (if you are one) generally will not go through the work necessary to maintain this fish and therefore the fish would probably rate a three on a one to four level. I do try my best to give professional, informative and safe suggestions in my responses. But since I am human, the chance for error can exist. My apologies, and you should stick with the Blue Ringed Angel or a Koran which I would rate at a two level in degree of difficulty. James (Salty Dog)> Bad advice Bob, Probably wrong, but I based this on my having kept a couple of Blue Girdled and on advice from a few site who sell these type angels. <Mmm, well, this is what you should do... and folks' experiences do vary... I assure you though... as recorded on the Net, in print... that the subgenus that includes this fish... almost never thrive in captivity> Then again, if LFSs want to sell them instead of flushing them down the toilet, they are not going to tell you they are difficult. But anyway, the two I've had lived a few years before they outgrew my 125 and had to be sold. They readily accepted any food I gave them. Quite possible that I was lucky, don't know. Thanks anyway for the response, and I will always keep this in mind. Regards, James (Salty Dog) <Thank you... will archive this with our input. Bob F> A very hardy marine Angelfish - Annularis (Blue Ring) 2/16/05 Thanks for the quick and accurate response Anthony. Let me ask you another question while your here, lol. I asked this before but the other person didn't seem to be too familiar with this angel. Would it be ok to start (I know it will eventually grow out of the tank) off a 5 inch annularis (blue-ringed) angel in a 65g FOWLR with about 65lbs of rock? <the fish is fantastic... but the tank is way too small! Do a search for this angel on fishbase.org... see the adult size and do consider that a strong swimming active fish of even 5" is too small for a tank scarcely three times as wide as its length. It would be a disappointment to see such a beautiful fish placed here> If it is ok to START with, at what size/inches should I take him out and find him another home or get a bigger tank? <many well intended folks mean to get larger tanks in time, but never do (life, business, money, family, etc). PLEASE do not take any fish into your care that you cannot properly house from the start. They grow fast mate... or they stunt when not given proper care (and die prematurely). A minimum of a six foot long tank please> There will only be one other medium sized butterfly in the tank and some really small bottom/rock dwellers. Thanks a lot Ant <I do hope you can keep this fish... they are fabulously hardy, long lived and so beautiful. Best regards, Anthony> Pomacanthus annularis query Hey crew, on the last question I
forgot to mention in previous email: How do you feel about
putting an annularis angel in a 65g FOWLR setup? He will be
one of only about three other smaller fish, I really can't seem to
find any angels I like that don't outgrow my tank and he's the
smallest so I'm really considering him? Thanks >>>Hello
Jay, P. annularis is not a beginner's angel number one. Number two,
your tank is much too small to accommodate one for any significant
period of time. If you can't find a dwarf angel that you
like...well I'm worried about you quite frankly Jay. :) Consider C.
acanthops or C. argi. Both are attractive, very small and VERY hardy.
The only caveat being that they are rather aggressive, but this usually
isn't a problem if they are added last. Just don't keep them
with very shy fish. Good Luck Jim<<< Chrysurus angel... in a reef? hello there crew! I had a quick
question about the Goldtail angel (Pomacanthus
Chrysurus). Now I know no angel is "reef safe" but
I have to ask...Can a Chrysurus be kept in conjunction with
reef tank inhabitants? <Have seen one that was, long
term... in a friend's large system whom you've likely heard of.
Leng Sy of EcoSystem Aquarium> I know that some angels can get along
in a reef such as Majestics and imperators. I mean I've
seen it done before and was wondering if you think a Chrysurus could
fit into the somewhat reef safe angel category. The tank
will have mostly SPS corals with a very healthy
fauna. It's a 70g tall tank (I know waaaay to small for
this fish but will be upgraded to the likes of a 180-300g system by the
time it grows out of its juvenile phase) with a 20g sump and 20-50g
refugium. All I'm asking is "can it be done"
if I take the right precautions (quarantine, healthy eating individual,
small initial size, etc.)? Chris AKA Fishtank <Can be. Bob
Fenner>
Daddy's Little Angel... Hello to all of you, I received my early Father's Day gift today, my second Blue Line Angel. <A great gift- and a beautiful fish!> I lost my other about a month ago to a bad case of Ich. I communicated with Anthony during my trying to cure him and found out that I may have contributed to his early death. I noticed early on that he had started to breath rapidly so I gave him two FWD's w/formalin then put him in a hospital tank with copper on day three. He progressively got worse and died shortly thereafter, Anthony indicated that perhaps my error was the administering of the copper. For my clarification, I was under the impression that just pygmy angels were sensitive to copper and the large angels were more tolerant. Can you clarify? <I think what Anthony was referring to was the dosage of copper...This medication must be administered very carefully, and regular testing must be done to assure that you are using a proper therapeutic dosage (not toxic, and not too dilute). If dosed without testing, the copper can have deadly effects...> After a three hour drip acclimation my new 5-6 inch angel is in a 18 gallon quarantine tank. He has a reddish pimple like bump on his front lower lip but does not look like an abrasion or blunt trauma. I didn't want to subject him to a FWD after his long journey thinking I could wait another day after he has settled in. <I understand your reluctance to subject him to another, possibly traumatic, experience. However, why get him settled in for a day, and then subject him to stress again? If it were me, I'd do the dip ASAP, and get this stressful stuff over with sooner, rather than later (assuming that a FW dip is in order for this malady). On the other hand, without a pic, it's hard to visualize what this bump could be...parasitic or something else...? You'll really have to do some research on this on the WWM site to get a positive ID. In fact, before ANY treatment is undertaken, you'll need to really get a feel for what this is that you're dealing with...> I filled his tank with water from my display tank and had the foam filter block in the sump for a week to a week and a half, do you think the foam block was in the sump long enough to be properly "seeded"? <I think so...And, if need be- you can always add a bacteria "culture", such as "Cycle" or "Fritz Zyme", to help supplement or "kick start" the filtration if you are experiencing ammonia or nitrite readings..> Last thought/question, HA. I'm thinking that I should just keep a close eye on him rather than subjecting him to a FWD and or medication. Any thoughts? <We're on the same wavelength, dude! Observe and analyze, then treat, if required. Take it slow and careful, but be prepared to react quickly and decisively if the need arises...> Hey there Anthony, if your listening! Steve Suniga <Here is your shout back from Anthony, channeled through me.."<G>"...Good luck with your new angel! Regards, Scott F> Blue Line Angel in small quarters Hello fellows, <Good morning to you!> I have a few questions if you'd kindly answer. I received yesterday a blue line angel from the Marine Center. The fellow told me it should do just fine in my 55 live rock system. <Wow, kind of small for such a large fish. I would not recommend any large Angelfish in anything under 90 gallons.> It would appear quite large for that to me, but I have no choice. The individual in question is a good 5 or 6 inches in length, beautiful, alert, and slightly skinny possibly as a result of shipping. Randy at Marine Center told me it was eating well for a month there. He also said he wouldn't expect it to eat anything for a week or so in its new home. Is this the norm? <Not for me. I would expect any healthy fish to eat in a few days.> Should I be comfortable with this? <I would begin offering various foods the day after introduction.> He said Mysis shrimp should be taken by the end of the week and other foods as well. Is this a hardy fish? <Generally, a hardy Angelfish, although the stress over confinement in this small tank may prove too much for this individual.> I was told it was. Do you have any experience with it? <Yes, a great fish, slightly under appreciated in the trade/hobby for more exotic looking species.> Sorry for the rambling length of this letter. I just really want the fish to do well, due to the fact it is amazing and all. LOL. Thanks, Brian <You can read more about this species here: http://www.wetwebmedia. com/marine/fishes/angels/index.htm http://www.wetwebmedia. com/marine/fishes/angels/bestmarangs.htm I would look for a larger tank or another home for this specimen. -Steven Pro> Chrysurus angelfish Hello, I am thinking about getting a large or extra large chrysurus angelfish from the marine center, and was wondering what would you rate it's hardiness from 1-10. Do you know of any other place I can get one besides the marine center since they cost a pretty penny, although I know they all cost quite a bit. Thanks!!! <Not sure where they would place on a scale of 1-10, but I know they are one of the hardier Angelfish. The link below is to a list of "The Best Angelfishes For Marine Aquarium Use" http://wetwebmedia.com/marine/fishes/angels/bestmarangs.htm Depending upon the tank size and other fish that you have in the tank already it should be ok. I would not put it in anything smaller than 100gal, or with any other large angels. I am not familiar with any suppliers of the chrysurus. Good luck in your search, Gage> An Angel or A Bad Apple? Howdy Mr. Fenner (and rest of Crew), <Scott F. here tonight> Book is great, as is the website... Question about the chrysurus angel (ear spot angel) I am thinking about purchasing one (actually Christmas present from mom) for centerpiece of tank(180) with a few Barberfish as tankmates but in the your book Conscientious marine aquarist, you call it one of the "bad apples" of the Pomacanthus genus, but in the website it gets a (1) and "seen rarely in the trade, and that is a shame" . Just want to figure out which should go by, as it is a rather pricey animal and wouldn't want to risk it if still considered "bad apple". Also how aggressive is this particular genus??? <Pomacanthus Angels in general are the "Alpha Fish" of whatever tank they inhabit! This angel can be a bit more "Chippy" than some of the other larger angels, but they do settle down and make beautiful specimens. They are relatively simple to keep; however, this is largely a function of how they were collected and handled...Since they hail from East Africa and Seychelles, they can be rather uncommon, and usually suffer from the rigors of shipping more than, say, a fish from the South Pacific. Do make sure that the fish is eating well and has taken several types of food at the dealer before you take it home. Finally, due to its large size, you may actually need larger quarters(1) for it to comfortably live out its entire lifespan. If the fish was properly handled by the collector, transhipper, and dealer, you stand an excellent chance of having a showpiece angel for many years to come.> Thanks again for all the information Gary Peterson <And Thank you, Gary, for stopping by!> Annularis Angel Thanks for the answer. On your site it says the annularis reach eight inches, do they get bigger than this? <much bigger in some cases. On the Reef they can reach almost 20"!!! Even half of this in captivity is quite large. A good hardy fish but needing a huge tank> Or is an eight inch fish too big for an 80 gallon tank? <an 80 gallon might only support this fish for the first 2-3 years of its life. You will need a 6 foot long tank in the near future. See here for more specs: http://filaman.uni-kiel.de/Summary/SpeciesSummary.cfm?ID= 7902&genusname=Pomacanthus&speciesname=annularis > Thanks rich. <best regards, Anthony> Baby Blue Angel Greetings Boys, <Hallo... Sailor!> Just some help on how fast this baby will grow. I work at a pet store and am considered the Marine expert, <we all have our faults... we forgive you> however I don't think my 8 years makes me an expert by far. <you have valid and important experience... and none of us our experts. All aquarists are pioneers :) > Especially considering how often I email you guys :) . Anyway, on our order we ordered a Med. (3-4") Navarchus angel which I have taken care of and kept more than healthy before. However, we got sent a baby blue by mistake which they did not charge us for and said we could have, <very cool> this was a first from Quality Marine for us. <I like Quality Marine very much... a very good wholesaler overall> All good I suppose. This blue angel is extremely beautifully colored and healthy looking, the first potential problem however was that he was only about 1.5" long, NOT a good fish size. <agreed> But in the last 3 years I have been good at getting hard to keep fish to eat (a Moorish Idol being my pride and joy at home). The little guy was put into a tank of mine and not at the store, I didn't want him in a community tank until I new he would eat and until he got some size to him. And like I hoped, that night he was eat, I was surprised as hell. He enjoys seaweed select, formula 1 and 2, brine shrimp and even took a few flakes on the 4th day. <please don't feed brine shrimp to any fish that you hope will survive longer than a year...heehee. It is truly a hollow and useless food (adult brine). Its a shame that fish respond so well to it... like Americans to fast food!> He is without flaw and I am VERY pleased with him. Now for the question, the only free tank I had in my personal possession with 5 months of cycling on it was a 72gal bow front. How fast do blues grow per month and what is the minimum tank they will need to flourish? <he'll be fine in this tank for about a year> I am thinking 155gal minimum but I think for a fish that will reach a bit over a foot at least 250 to make him happy. <agreed on the latter> In my opinion a fish should be given what it needs to feel at home. <indeed...saltwater fishes have been shown to need length of tank more than water volume to prevent stunting and premature death> Kinda like the Betta problem. A Betta will survive in a 5gal jar, BUT will he be happy? I prefer to go with the happy size so I always encourage our customers to get more than what they need. There is nothing that makes me happier than to see a fish that is happy. Thanks for the help men. John M. <let me suggest that you feed this fish a diet rich in meaty foods while it is young for faster growth and as it is natural (small Blue angels are cleaner fish that eat parasites off other fishes). So... no brine shrimp, but any freeze dried foods and especially thawed frozen Gammarus and Mysid shrimp, Pacifica plankton and shredded krill. Best regards, Anthony> Pomacanthus chrysurus Hi Bob, Its been a while since I have
needed your advice, I guess that's a good thing. I have a question
regarding a new addition to my tank a Pomacanthus chrysurus (from
Africa), I got this fish from the Marine Center about 2 mths ago. It
was about 2 inches when I received it and has grown about an inch
since. While in quarantine, it developed a bad case of Lymphocystis.
It's whole body was covered and I was skeptical if it would make
it, any way with water changes and vitamin supplements (Selcon and
VitaChem), it has recovered quite nicely. My only concern is that
disease affected one its eyes, and it appears as though it has Popeye.
I am sure its not because I can see signs of the disease still on the
eyeball. <This too may well resolve> The eye is swollen,
and I am wondering if the fish could be blind in that eye.
<Possibly... but as stated... may self-cure> The other signs of
the disease have been absent now for the past week and I was wondering
if the eye just needs more time since signs of the disease are still
present. <Yes. Agreed> Do you think the swelling will go down
once the disease is gone or do you think the fish could be blind as a
result. Is there any way I can help besides continuing to offer foods
with vitamins. <Not really... some folks might suggest adding other
adjuncts to boost nutrition (HUFAs for instance) or Epsom Salt
treatments... but time going by will likely do> The fish is still in
quarantine and I think I will keep it there for until it gets bigger as
the stock in my display tank would hassle it (imperator angel in
particular). Please advise. Thanks Gill <I'd place in the main
system with live rock ASAPractical. Bob Fenner> Blue-faced Angel Hello Anthony! <cheers!> THANK YOU for taking the time to reply! <my pleasure> I didn't want to "lose" the sponge, and both seem to be doing fine in a medium-flow area of my tank. I had asked if someone could identify my fish by a picture, and I finally found one on the WWM website! You guys are awesome - I haven't been able to find anybody else that could identify this angel. <Pomacanthus xanthometopon... AKA the Yellow-faced or Blue faced angel... a magnificent fish> (http://wetwebfotos.com/Home?actionRequest=mediaView&ID=1914) (And also attached) Now for a stupid question - is there a picture of this angel as an adult? <fishbase.org is a great fish reference...try here: http:// www.fishbase.org/Summary/SpeciesSummary.cfm? ID=5662&genusname=Pomacanthus &speciesname=xanthometopon and on our site try here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/marine/fishes/angels/Pomacanthus/Pomacanthus.htm The last three picture on our page are a series of color changes for this fish (last one being a terminal adult)> And a listing of what it eats? <a somewhat delicate feeder yet quite predatory and not even remotely reef safe. Needs a VERY wide variety of foods if it is to survive in captivity. Include meaty foods and greens and at least all of the following: Nori seaweed, Gammarus, Mysid shrimp, Pacifica plankton, Spirulina. There are some prepared frozen mixes that are good. On our site and in Bob's book there are some great recipes with vitamins too for you to home make a great frozen food. Sweetwater brand plankton (in a jar) is also quite good. Yes... a very wide diet is needed to keep this fish healthy and colorful> Mine seems to like to eat tubeworms :( <that's only the beginning!> and anything "wavy", so I am wondering if I can keep a Xenia without the angel trying to eat it. <unlikely> Also, thank you for the info about the conference. I am not sure if I can attend - I would definitely like to see the exhibits! <most MACNAs you can see the exhibits without paying the full conference price (may or may not here)... you just cant get in to see the speakers. There are often one day passes too for Saturday which are great!> If I do go, I will definitely stop by to see you! Thanks again, and hope y'all are having a great summer...-Cathy <best regards! Anthony> Timid Blue ring Angel Hi, I have a blue ring angel. He is about 6 inches, eats but, I feel he doesn't get enough for his size. He just stays around the medium level of the tank (height) and gets small pieces, because all of the fish at the top are getting the bigger fishes. Is there anyway I can help it come to the top (like helping it feel more like home) so it can get more food? I have had him for 2 weeks. Thanks! <With time he will become more at ease. Patience my friend. -Steven Pro> Angelfish Follow-up (Pomacanthus) Hi Steven, thanks for the information, but the research I did even on WWM site said the this species was rare but not found enough in the trade, so I took that as meaning that it was not a bad pick, ah well. From your knowledge are there any tips you can give as far as raising this species. <Near reef tank conditions to encourage the fish to eat from the rock and feel comfortable.> The chrysurus is about 2 1/2 inches and eats very well, I got it from The Marine Center in Texas and was very impressed with the fish itself and the way it was shipped. That was my first time ordering from them but Bob talks well of them so I decided to try them and I was very pleased. <I, too, have heard nothing but excellent feedback about them. They would be my choice for rare fish.> My plan is to leave it in quarantine, fading out the copper in about a week and keep it in the 30 gallon quarantine setup until the Emperor is done changing over. This will probably be by the end of the summer. The chrysurus will be the only occupant so it should be fine and seems quite at home at the present time. Do you think this will make a difference, since the coloration of the Emperor will be different by then. <Not really. Marine fish fight based on needing common food. They establish a territory in which they can sustain a food source. Your Emperor will likely claim your entire tank and attempt to drive away any competitors.> I intend to take on the challenge, and hope for the best with raising this species. Any advice would appreciated.. Thanks Gillian <You are really going to have to make a decision which you one want more. Good luck! -Steven Pro> Live Rock & Angelfish Hey Guys, How is it going? <Pretty good. Hope all is well with you.> I have a question about the live rock in my tank. My tank has been set up for about two years now, with live sand and live rock. The live rock some how does not look live anymore, the purple coralline growth is not as lush as it once was. Although the tank up as a reef with live rock/sand, I have no corals. I keep angels in this set up. I also keep live rock in my sump instead of the bio balls. My question what should I do to see growth and life form from these rocks, is there something I can add to help or do I have to replace the rocks. I want to see stuff growing from the rocks, is this still achievable or do I have to start over. <Merely monitor and dose for calcium and alkalinity to encourage more coralline growth. I would wager that your angelfish are scourging the rock, too, hampering growth of all sorts of live creatures.> Also, I have a juvenile emperor angel that is changing over and I have a juvenile chrysurus (spelling probably not right) angel from Africa I was told, <Pretty close, Pomacanthus chrysurus, and it is found on the east coast of Africa. Sorry to say, an angelfish with a very mixed history, some report them as doing well others very poorly dying mysteriously in months.> it has similar coloration to emperor although much smaller. It is now in quarantine and can probably stay there for a while as it about 2 1/2 inches small, my question is if I decide to put it in the same tank as the emperor is it likely that the emperor would bother it because they are of the same coloration. <Very likely. Extremely likely. Not a wise choice.> I ask because I notice in my LFS angels with like colors are often separated. The tank is a 125 gallon with lots of caves and holes for hiding. Thanks for you help and keep up the good work. ~Gillian <You are welcome. Sorry for all the bad news. In the future, better to solicit this kind of information before the purchase. -Steven Pro> Question on Blue Ringed Angel I introduced two new fish to my
aquarium about a week ago. <Without quarantining?> My Blue Ringed
Angel seems to be breathing heavily out of one gill and not the other.
He would not eat frozen brine (usually not a problem) but did eat some
Spirulina. I am worried about Oodinium which has devastated a previous
tank. <That or gill flukes, but considerably rarer.> Would you
add maybe a 20 percent dosage of copper or wait for more signs? <If
you do decide you need to medicate, you should always follow the
manufacture's recommendations. Partial dosages are usually not
effective.> All other fish appear to be eating and I do not see much
aggression among the other fish. Any recommendations? <Remove
infected fish to hospital/quarantine tank for additional
treatment/observation. -Steven Pro> Will Cuellar Re: Injury to Blue-Ring Angel Thank you for the personal response! I fed him this morning and he's eating just fine. One more question: Should I feed him Anti-Bacterial Flakes from Tetra just to keep him safe? <A good idea. No harm> It was half his lip and a very small portion of flesh below his lip. Do you advocate the use of vitamin C and what do you use on your fish for injuries such as this? <I do advocate its use (including for myself, other humans), and a full complement of vitamins in these cases. Preparations are made for pet-fish, but human-intended ones are the same> I also read that puffers get more aggressive over time, is this true? <In general, yes> The Annularis is the dominant fish. They are the only 2 fish in the tank besides 3 big blue-leg hermits, 2 conchs and 1 Astrea snail which I can't believe the puffer hasn't eaten yet (he is very docile for a puffer) <Most are and remain so in captivity... given foods they enjoy on a regular basis... the Puffer will/would first eat the invertebrates.> Tank Parameters: 75 gal. long tank; pH 8.2; amm., nitrites and nitrates nil; lights on 11-12 hours a day; protein skimmer runs continuously; dead coral for decoration; minimal algae but tank doesn't look "sterile"; phosphates are less than 10 ppm; <Believe, trust you mean/t nitrates> KH 125 MG/L. That's about all the info I have right now. If you need to know anything else just let me know. Thank You for your valuable time and expertise. P.S. What are your thoughts (if any) on Sano? My LFS. really tries to push this stuff for problems with fish. I've been in this for about 20 years now (I'm 34 now) and it really has advanced especially in collection procedures, for me less interference always seems to work best. Also, I do water changes every 2 weeks. <Have heard good things about this product, but don't use it. Bob Fenner> Thanks Mr. Fenner, Thank You for helping me out with my Blue-Ring Angel (he had his bottom lip bitten off), He's totally healed up now and looks as great as ever. <Ah, outstanding! Good to hear/read of the recovery. Bob Fenner> Happy Holidays, Gary Camel shrimp, Angel Selection Howdy, <Hi there> First off really love the site, very informative. Three questions for you. First I tried ordering some inverts online as the selection in my area is horrible. I received camel shrimp instead of peppermint shrimp, will they eat/control the Aiptasia? <Not an uncommon mistake, and no. Please read here: http://wetwebmedia.com/aippepshrpfaqs.htm> Second question: Like stated above, the fish stores in town have pretty scary conditions, so I was wondering if you have any recommendations for a good online retailer (kind of leery ordering fish by mail though?) <A few of the prominent ones can be found on our links page: http://wetwebmedia.com/links.htm I would read through the various chatforums, ask there (Ours: http://talk.wetwebfotos.com/) for actual users input> Last question: I read on this site that the blue face angel is not very hardy but the queen is better. <Yes, "statistically"... historically this is so> I have been told by several people the opposite? Which would be better for my 100 gallon tank. has appr. 80 lbs. live rock, 1 blue spot puffer, bicolor blenny, hermits, snails, serpent star) <Of the two, in 100 trials, ninety some times a Queen> Only want to add a large angel and maybe a Christmas or Coris wrasse to complete the tank. Thank you for your time, Sincerely, Gary Peterson <Keep gathering those data points, opinions till you feel confident you know your own. Bob Fenner> Pomacanthus imperator and Pomacanthus maculosus Hello bob, my dealer had some show size angel and I fell in love with the 16 to 18 inches imperator and maculosus angel immediately I saw them. do you think at this size( 16-18inches) are they easy to keep? <Decidedly not as easy to keep as ones collected at "reasonable" (a few inches) in length and raised in captivity... Fishes (actually all animals) collected "large" are less adaptable to captive conditions... like food acceptance, getting along with other "novel" species... And shame on the collectors and retailers for extracting adults... leave these in the seas to reproduce.> at the moment they look great. if you were me which one will you purchase? the maculosus or the imperator angel. and why? <Mmm, neither... as I am morally opposed to their collection in the first place. Bob Fenner> My Koran Angel Hi Mr. Fenner, Rick your reefing friend here
again. I wanted to send you these pictures for sometime now. No one I
know has ever seen a Koran Angel quite like this one. Can you identify
it? <Hmm, this is likely a tail-less (genetic) juvenile Pomacanthus
imperator, not a Koran (P. semicirculatus)> Is it a Koran Angel as
it was sold to me? Notice the odd shaped tail. I have never seen an
angel with a tail shaped like this, have you? <Yes, though more in
the wild than the trade... collectors, transhippers frequently not paid
for less-than near-perfect specimens...> By the way, these pictures
were taken before the development of HLLE which with your expert
guidance seems to have reversed direction. <Your expert care>
Thanks again for all your help and dedication to this most enjoyable
hobby. Your reefing friend, Rick <You're welcome my friend.
Nothing to worry about re this specimen... It will develop into a nice
Imperator, just one sans a caudal fin. Bob Fenner> Asfur Angels Question... Hi Bob, I just purchased a beloved Asfur this evening. A real Beauty. I had been fortunate to observe and put him on hold for 6 months at my dealer's store. <Wow! A great species to have on hand for so long> He is great. Nice and plump from eating everything you throw at him. He shows the normal aggressive behavior and is my center piece. <A good place> I have 11 years of Marine Experience and have kept several Big Angels. Some of my accomplishments have been a Majestic Angel, Queen Angel, Koran Angel, and Flames of Course. After setting up my 75 Gal (First Big Tank At least big to me) I have added a 4 inch specimen with a maroon clown and a Fiji Devil. I plan on adding a Desjardini Sailfin Tang, a Red Sea Raccoon (In keeping with species from them same region) <Great> and a Bicolor Parrot or Hippo Tang. <Skip the Cetoscarus bicolor, go with the Paracanthurus> Adding all a couple of weeks apart to let the Bacteria keep up. Now to my question. I have read much about the Asfur. I have read about there normal habits and feed, etc. After seeing the size of the systems of those in the QA portion 125+ I started to wonder about the size of my tank. <Me too... I generally suggest a 300 gallon about now...> I thought he would be in for the long haul in my new tank but I am beginning to scratch my head. I really am happy with a 75 and may upgrade a couple of years down the road to a 110 (It will fit on the stand) but is the Asfur going to grow too large? <Yes, psychologically ahead of physiologically...> All of the material I have read stated that the Angel, in the wild, normally attains the size of 6 inches or so and has even been associated as a pygmy angel. <What? Nah... have seen them near their full size of sixteen inches in the wild, had ones of over a foot in length in captivity... Who do you recall making such statements? Please see Pomacanthus Asfur on our site (www.WetWebMedia.com) and fishbase.org...> I am really confused. I understand that there is a firm distinction between the Asfur and Maculosus (Forgive the spelling) as it has been nonchalantly avoided by questioners. The Mac, I understand, can grow to 18 inches, I have seen one that large. I have a large Wet Dry Unit with in Sump Protein skimmer, a couple of power heads for circulation and an Aragonite bed. I have even added a high powered pump for a gentle mist of bubbles for added surface agitation to oxygenate the water even more then the wet dry unit will provide. <Good idea> Lighting is on a timed schedule (Power compacts both white and actinic to stimulate algae for nutrition) There is a lot of free swimming space and he is doing quite well (Even coming out in the last couple hours and exploring his surroundings). He is fully shaped and the colors are very prominent. No sign of infection, disease, or lost finnage. <Yes, this is likely a tank-raised individual out of the Far East... quite common nowadays, and fabulous> Can you give me some advice pertaining to growth and true classification. Hardiness is no question in my mind. Surely rivaling and overtaking that of Navarchus (Her royal Majesty) Thank you in advance... <Do take a look on our site and Fishbase... Growth can be six inches in a year to nine in two to eleven or so in three... Bob Fenner> Mark, Maryland Pygmy associated (re: Asfur Angels Question...) It was referenced that the Asfur had been considered pygmy because of its small size in The Book of the Marine Aquarium by Nick Dakin. <Wowzah! Nick is a much more careful writer than this... very surprising> It is a wonderful overview of marine keeping and very informative as far as the advanced portion of the hobby. Julian Sprung was also an associate writer on the book so the source seems correct and experienced. <Well...> Not that I am refuting your debate. <Not refutable in this case... have collected this fish in the Red Sea, N.W. Indian Ocean over years time...> Thanks for the info. Will check out your site. <And most recent book which includes a Fishwatcher's Guide to the Fishes of the Red Sea... Bob Fenner> Mark Asfur Angel I have a 5" Asfur angel in a reef. Its anal fin was deteriorating, but has stopped and is getting better. Now I'm dealing with Ich, and cloudy eye. And one of the eyes has a pale ring around it. I'm thinking it might be pop eye? Any help would be appreciated. <This is almost always a very sturdy species... From reading about your specimens condition, I'd closely examine the make-up of the systems water, set-up and maintenance. The root/base problem/cause here is not Ich, not infectious, but the system itself... Bob Fenner> Chrysurus Angel Do these angels have a good survival rate? <Yes, amongst the highest for the genus... Somewhere between an Koran and Emperor...> I'm interested in getting one, but I'd hate to lose it because of the large price tag. I believe they're around 400-500$. <this is a bit steep... in US$? Should be about half this> Do they adapt well? <most small, 3-4" ones yes> Should I add live rock to the tank I wish to place the angel in? <Absolutely! A good few months before introduction> Oh and why is there a picture of an Asfur angel in your Maculosus FAQ page? just thought you'd like to know. <Hmm, will have to look. Hmm, both the Maculosus page and genus Pomacanthus pages have them as they should be... The maculosus with lighter caudal, head chevrons... the Asfur with the yellow up on the dorsal, yellow caudal... Bob Fenner> Gill growth I wrote to you several days ago about what appeared to be gill inflammation in my juv. Chrysurus Angel. It now appears to be a growth of some kind. <Is this growth asymmetrical, growing out and beyond the fish's gill area? Perhaps some sort of tumorous problem... and difficult to assess or do much with... except optimize conditions and hope for remission...> The growth is reddish and is now extending below the fish's gill. The fish is still eating normally and behaving normally. Should I remove him from the tank? Change his food? Pray for the best? I just don't know what to do. I was wondering what course of treatment would be appropriate. Below is the information that I sent in the first email. <I would do the latter, and none of the first two> As far as diet goes, what exactly is the best diet for the Chrysurus. Information on this species is limited. He likes to eat anything we put in the tank. Ocean Nutrition's Formula One, Prime Reef, Spirulina Formula, Lifeline's green formula for herbivores, brine shrimp, Mysis shrimp, plankton, krill, the dried green seaweed sheets, and his favorite, live ghost shrimp. Should we add or remove anything from his diet? He is a voracious eater, and is not picky. <A mix of all you are offering and more is fine.> All of the other fish are ok now. No signs of Ich at the present time. It is time for a water change, and I would like to know if you think it is alright to remove the copper from the system at this time. It has been about a week and a half since the copper was added. Thanks for the help. Dena Andrews >> <I would stay the course you're on and hope for the best. Bob Fenner> Marine Questions Hi Bob. I wrote you about 6 weeks ago regarding my then brand new 110 gallon saltwater all-fish setup. I added some live rock (Fiji) as you suggested, and the tank just completed cycling last week. I have a few Domino damsels and a beautiful 3 1/4" Emperor Angelfish (Pomacanthus Imperator - still in full juvenile coloration) that I just added the other day. A few questions: 1. Assuming he was plucked straight from the ocean, approximately how old is this Emperor angel that I have? I'm just curious. My guess is that maybe he's about 1.5 years old??? <Likely much younger... a few months to maybe half a year... grow very quickly as young... or perish.> 2. If I put an 8" or 9" Emperor angelfish (the ultimate show fish I'd like to have!) in with the juvenile Emperor (the Emperors are my favorite fish, and I'm willing to take some risk!), do you think they'll get along OK because of the size differences? There is plenty of room and hiding places in the tank - and soon I'll be getting rid of the pesky little Domino damsels (they are only there now to eat excess trial foods that the Emperor may not eat - but so far the Emperor I have is a pig and eats just about EVERYTHING!!!). <Not a good idea... this system is too small for both these Emperors... and large wild-caught specimens adapt to captivity extremely poorly. Better to do as you're doing. Grow yours up from a juvenile.> 3. What if I put a juvenile (3" or 4" specimen) Majestic angel (Euxiphipops Navarchus) in with the juvenile Emperor? Good chance they'll get along? Or should I just go with a larger Majestic Angel? I know these fishes are relatively peaceful (but difficult to keep overall) for large Pomacanthids. <Really, if it were my 110, I'd stick with one large marine Angelfish...> 4. Do you know of any method to determine the gender of large Angelfishes and Butterflyfishes while they are still alive? Or is it impossible to tell unless one dissects them? <Some species show slight dimorphic, dichromic... structural and color changes/differences by sex... but generally no.> 5. Regarding garlic for fighting parasites - have you heard about this? If so, what do you think of it, and have you yourself had any success in treating sick fishes with this method? Or perhaps I should ask, have your fishes remained parasite-free precisely BECAUSE you use garlic? <Yes, and does seem there is something to it... But I don't rely on it use...> 6. I'm going to setup a 29 or 30 gallon quarantine tank for new arrivals. What do you recommend for treating new specimens when I get them? Should I keep them there for 1 week, or even longer? Should I treat ALL new arrivals with copper solution (or do you recommend anything else) so they don't affect my show tank upon introduction? <Please see the materials stored on our site: Home Page re this issue... a big, important topic.> Ultimately I want my 110 gallon to have 4 large angels, and maybe one large Butterflyfish and 1 large surgeonfish. I know it's a long-shot that 4 large Pomacanthids will get along, but I'm willing to try it nonetheless. One dealer here where I live will be fairly accommodating if things don't work out with the fishes I buy not getting along. <Not really a "long shot" so much as a big strain... psychologically... sort of like locking you up in a big room> I know its not unusual for Centropyge without warning or reason to stop eating and eventually pine away and die, but is this the case for full size angels? I have an annularis angel that stopped eating for a couple of days, but now is feeding on limited amounts of brine shrimp. Any suggestions? Regards, Jack <Hmm, hopefully it will start eating again of its own accord... but I would try a couple of things: Soaking whatever foods offered in a vitamin/appetite enhancing mixture (like Selcon, Micro-Vit, even "Baby Vitamins" for humans), and open shellfish (store bought, for human consumption, pry it open, soak it, put it on the bottom), elevating the temperature to about 82F.... slowly lowering it as time goes by... Bob Fenner, who asks you to write back... and will make other opinions known... if the Annularis doesn't resume feeding within a week.> Marine angels I have asked you about the personifer angel and the maculosus angel, the pet store I go to has both in stock. The personifer is 5-7" (I'm making the range broad because I'm bad at judging size) and the maculosus is a little larger, lets say 7-8" Both seem healthy, active, alert and disease free. Both are eating. I would love to get the personifer but you have told me that you would still lean toward the maculosus. I was wondering what the maculosus has that the personifer doesn't to make it such a wonderful species. I was also wondering if the size of the personifer was to large. Does the personifer have any advantages over the maculosus, except for my opinion that it is more beautiful, if I am being to neurotic, then feel free to say so. Any advice you can give me will be greatly appreciated - Yaron Aronowicz >> < The distinction on which is "better" is not based on any aesthetic attribute... Historically the maculosus has a better survival record... The size difference in this case doesn't make any difference. Both specimens are beyond what I consider "ideal size at acquisition"... but if both seem "well adjusted"... then they'll both adjust to being moved/resituated... but If you had one hundred of each to do an experiment with and places to put all of each in parallel/identical conditions, you would find the maculosus living longer... Bob Fenner> Prayer for a Koran in a Reef Bob I am in the planning stage of combining my 75 gal. FOWLR and my 55 gal. reef into a single 125+ gal. reef. The current inhabitants of the FO system are a large purple tang and a juvenile Koran angel, both of which I am quite attached to. My question is this: can the Koran be kept in a reef system, or will it eat the coral (polyps specifically)? It seems that I read this at one time or another, but I am not really sure, as it was long ago.... Tanks, Ryan Goltz >> You know, by and large I know that current sentiments side against the keeping of large Pacific (or any ocean) marine angels in with corals et al. reef creatures, but I'd definitely give yours a try. Have just spent another couple of weeks in Fiji, and you know what they have in/on their shallow water reefs? Koran, aka semicircle (Pomacanthus semicirculatus) angelfishes... and you have 125 gallons or so... Again, I'd go for it and if the angel develops a bad polyp habit, you can trade it in. Bob Fenner
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