FAQs Giant Sailfin Plecos, Genera
Glyptoperichthys, Liposarcus, Pterygoplichthys:
Foods/Feeding/Nutrition
Related Articles: Loricariids, Otocinclus, From
Pan-ack-ay to Pan-ack-zee, A Detailed Look at the Bizarre But
Beautiful Panaque Catfishes by Neale Monks
FAQs on: Glyptoperichthys, Liposarcus, Pterygoplichthys, Sailfin Giants
among the Loricariids 1, Large Plecos
2, FAQs on: Large
Plecos Identification, Large Plecos
Behavior, Large Plecos
Compatibility, Large Plecos
Stocking/Selection, Large Plecos
Systems, Large Plecos Health,
Large Plecos
Reproduction,
Related Catfish FAQs:
Loricariids 1, Otocinclus,
Other Loricariid Genera: FAQs on: Ancistrus, Baryancistrus, Genera Farlowella, Loricaria, Sturisoma,
Rhineloricaria: Twig Plecostomus, The Zebra Pleco, Hypancistrus zebra,
Hypostomus, Peckoltia : Clown
Plecostomus, Lasiancistrus,
Panaque, Pseudacanthicus, Scobanancistrus, L-number
catfish, Loricariid
Identification, Loricariid
Behavior, Loricariid
Compatibility, Loricariid Selection, Loricariid Systems, Loricariid Feeding, Loricariid Reproduction, Loricariid Disease, Catfish: Identification, Behavior, Compatibility, Selection, Systems, Feeding, Disease, Reproduction, Algae
Eaters,
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Algae Wafer Content 10/25/12
Dear Crew,
<Attz>
I have been feeding my Ancistrus and Gibbiceps catfish
a mixture of New Life Spectrum and Hikari algae wafers as well as
several mixed vegetables.
<Good choices in my estimation>
I recently purchased a pack of 'Tetra Veggie Xtreme' and noticed at the
end of the ingredients list something I was unsure of. It says 'Color:
Blue No.
2 Lake, Yellow No 5 Lake, Yellow No 6 Lake. Ethoxyquinas as a
preservative.'
<Yes>
My question is what are these colour ingredients and are these
particular wafers safe for my catfish?
<Yes; they are fine. In fact these artificial colorants and preservative
(a quinoline-based antioxidant ) are extensively used in human foods and
spices>
I don't want to feed them any kind of dangerous hormone foods that
supposedly bring out more colour but with negative
effects on their health so I thought it would be best to check in with
you regarding this matter.
<These are not hormones>
Thank you very much for your time,
Attz
<Welcome. Bob Fenner>
11 year-old 22" Pleco is not eating x 3 days...can you help?
7/29/12
I have been reading many many conversations on your site and trying to
diagnose my 12 year-old large Pleco, "Elwood". I have a
55-gallon tank with bubble strips along the entire back length
of tank and two double-filters (the type with replaceable filters
containing charcoal).
<This tank is rather small for this fish, so one problem may be water
quality. Older tanks have a tendency to slide into low pH, high nitrate
territory; grab a test kit, and check the pH and the nitrate level. As
always with a sick fish, check nitrite level as well, to see if the
filter is working.>
I have one school of Danio fish and 3 very tiny white algae-eaters--as
my Pleco stopped eating algae many years ago.
<As they do.>
Except for the fish themselves, my tank does not have any other fancy
decor, so "Elwood", my Pleco, has plenty of room to move about.
<"Plenty" doesn't really mean much when we're talking about a 22-inch
catfish in a 55-gallon tank.>
Other than Wal-Mart, we do not have any pet stores where I live, so I
drive hours every two weeks for my fish foods. Elwood normally
eats Hikari dehydrated blood worms and Hikari Tubifex worm cubes
(dehydrated). He also eats frozen blood worms and has a fresh
piece of zucchini always available to him in the tank. It is
quite a feat for him to eat these foods, since he has to skim them from
the top of the tank, but he has always been more than willing to do the
work to eat them. Maybe a month or so ago he seemed to be not as
willing to go through so much effort to eat, so I began looking for food
that would lay on the bottom. Of the various types I tried, the
one he settled on was Wardley shrimp pellets. He continued to eat
these primarily for the last month or so, eating the other foods only as
a little treat. I skim the tank daily of any of Elwood's excrement
that the filter won't pick up, and clean and change the filters out each
weekend. I am currently using Jungle's Complete Water Care Kit
tablets for adding water to the tank as needed and for changing out the
water. Due to Elwood's size I don't ever remove all of the water,
but do sometimes remove half of it and replace it with conditioned fresh
water.
I don't profess to be a fish-expert, as I started out as a 'fish-sitter'
ten years ago and ended up being an adoptive fish owner. But I
have developed quite an attachment to Elwood and am very concerned about
his recent behavior: He is not eating, and has not been for 3 days
now! He normally eats like clockwork; We have a very regular
feeding schedule. He has never gone without eating before.
I read many of the other conversations on your site but could not find
any that I felt sure enough fit my circumstance. I do not have
access to anyone whom is knowledgeable and am hoping you can help me
decide on a course of action to save my beautiful Pleco. I hate
thinking that he is suffering and I just don't know what to do for him.
I did do a 30% water change earlier and thoroughly cleaned the gravel
and the filters. I would be happy to make a trip out of town for
medicine for him if I could determine what he needs.
The only other details I see that I found in some of your website emails
may be that 1) His tail seems a bit damaged but I see no other
discoloration on it. He likes to stand in the corner of the tank
with his tail in the gravel most of the day, and he fidgets a lot to
maneuver just right into his spot so that he wedges behind the heater
and bubble strip cords. I had assumed this was how he had beat up
his tail...but maybe not.
<Possibly, but suspect Finrot too. Check the nitrite (with an "i") level
to see if water quality is good. If nitrite isn't zero, then there's a
problem with water quality -- overstocking, under-filtering,
over-feeding. Review, and act accordingly.>
2) I noticed last week that he started rustling up the gravel a bit on
the bottom during the night. He had done it a few times in the
past, but it seemed to be a bit more extensive this time.
<It's what they do.>
3) I think he is straining to breathe. At first I thought he was
sucking up food or algae in the water but I think he is just breathing
heavy.
<Again, a classic symptom of a water quality issue (check nitrite re:
filtration and nitrate re: water changes, overstocking).>
4) I think I can see a little white patch on his gill area. He
does not seem to have white spots on the rest of him and these are very
non-descript: there is one small patch on his left gill 'flap' and two
smaller ones on the right as best as I can see.
<Could be Finrot; see above.>
I would be most grateful for any help you can offer, as I don't want him
to suffer. Thank you ahead of time for any response you may give
me.
Sincerely, Teresa (Elwood's mom)
<Plecs have hearty appetites and are super-easy to feed. Cooked/canned
peas, cooked spinach, courgette (zucchini), cucumber and blanched
lettuce are all ideal staple foods, alone with offerings of fish fillet
and seafood every couple days. Hikari Algae Wafers are a convenient and
nutritious food that can be used as often as required (maybe once or
twice a week, if you're feeding all the other things mentioned). But
they will go off their food if stressed. Yours is middle-aged, so may be
a trifle more sensitive than it was when younger and smaller, but it
certainly isn't old -- 20+ years is entirely normal for this species of
catfish. There's almost certainly an environmental issue going on here
given how big the fish is and how small the tank is. Upgrading the tank
to 75 gallons will probably be the easiest and cheapest fix. They aren't
physically much bigger (in US standard sizes, both are the same width,
but the 75 gallon tank is deeper) but more water does mean better
conditions for your livestock. Cheers, Neale.>
Re 11 year-old 22" Pleco still not eating
7/31/12
I am so very grateful to you, Neale, for answering my email question
about my sick Pleco. I was surprised to find my email on your
webpage so quickly!
<Glad to help.>
After writing you last night I spent many more hours pouring over your
website and trying to get a better look at Elwood's (my Pleco's name)
tail and fins. You mentioned fin rot and I was beginning to
suspect the same thing. After looking him over again I do see more
than just fraying on his tail: It looks like there is some grayish
film or opaque looking flesh between the frays in one area. And I
do not remember the spaces between his fin spikes/bones being a gray
color either; I remember them as being black. Again, I apologize
for my lack of aquatic knowledge, but I am trying to remedy this.
<Good.>
Our local store is out of the water test kits you suggested to me, so I
will be traveling all afternoon to buy some in another town.
However, in hindsight there was a brief stage where my water was having
difficulty (looking cloudy, more algae, etc.) I was out of town
and without my daily skimming of Elwood's waste and water freshening the
water looked bad upon my return. I had to do a thorough cleaning
of all filters, etc. to remedy the situation, but it was bad for about a
week. This was immediately preceding Elwood's anorexia (not
eating).
<Indeed.>
I am sad to hear that my tank is now overcrowded, as I was clear with
the aquarium merchant I purchased them from as to my tanks and fishes
measurements!
<I see. Well, this is the problem with many retailers: they're more
focused on sales than ethics. Call it one of the pitfalls of the free
market! If we as shoppers don't do our research first, and
independently, we're likely to be mis-sold things we don't need.>
I cannot afford to buy a larger tank, so have arranged with a neighbor
to adopt out my school of Danios to her.
<Not really the problem here. It's not so much how many fish you have,
but which fish are too big for a 55-gallon tank. Your Plec has quite
obviously outgrown its home. Removing fish like the Danios may
marginally improve things, but still, the problem remains.>
The mini white algae-eaters are doing a wonderful job of cleaning all
the tough little spots, so I would like to keep at least one of them if
you think this will be appropriate for Elwood.
<You will see that I repeatedly recommend these Ancistrus catfish here
on WWM; for 95% of the people who buy Plecs, they're buying the wrong
fish, and they should be buying an Ancistrus catfish instead. Smaller,
easier to keep, and much better at cleaning algae.>
I am also exploring giving Elwood to some folks who have a giant tank
and a love for giant Plecos. They seem like very knowledgeable
aquarium owners--much more than myself--and are interested in adopting
Elwood.
Their tank is nearly twice the size of mine, and I would be willing to
part with him if he would be 'happier' or more comfortable, I should
say.
<All good.>
After reading your site and your response to my email I believe he does
have fin rot, but now I am unsure of best way to proceed. I will
buy the water test kit today, but I think he needs medicine to beat the
infection.
I read that your first pick of meds would NOT be Melafix, but which one
of the others would it be?
<Here in the UK I tend to recommend a product called eSHa 2000 because
it's relatively non-toxic, inexpensive, effective, and works against
Finrot and Fungus, so you don't need to identify precisely what's
causing the problem -- it kills both! But if you live in the US, you
have different choices. A combination of Maracyn and Maracyn 2 seems to
be recommended (unfortunately on their own each of these drugs doesn't
*always* work because they target different types of bacteria).>
Can you give me a specific name of a good one because I think I will
have to order it online. The only one I have found so far is the
MelaFix. I also read that I need to take the other fish out of the
tank while I treat.
Am I correct? Can you suggest a treatment medicine and protocol for
me to treat the fin rot, please? Some of the other medicines I
have found listed are Maracyn, Maracyn II, Waterlife - Myxazin;
Are these the correct antibiotics to use? Again, thanks so much for your
earlier response and assistance. Your website has been invaluable
to me!
Sincerely, Teresa
<Glad to help. Cheers, Neale.>
Florida Gar and Pleco, comp., nutr. of Loricariids
7/24/08 Hi all-- I love your site, and have spent many hours
reading in the last few months since I discovered it. However,
I've had an issue come up that I have not been able to find
an answer to. I have a seven-inch Florida Gar in a 125 gallon
tank, with six larger-sized silver dollars and a Pleco. I am not
sure of what type he is, but he is definitely not the
"common type". He is brown, with a short, wide, compact
body, about seven or eight inches long. <Do bear in mind some
of these fish will get extremely large; Gar will exceed 60 cm and
potentially 90 cm in captivity if they are among the common
species traded, such as Lepisosteus platyrhincus, the species
usually sold as the "Florida Gar".> Lately, we have
noticed him interacting with the gar in a way we had not
previously observed. He appears to be sucking on the gar. I know
from reading your site and others that this is a bad, bad thing.
<Has been reported between these species, and yes, is damaging
to the Gar. When the skin is abraded, the mucous is lost and it
becomes much easier for secondary infections to get started.>
We chase him away and offer algae disks, which he goes for
(lately, he's seemed overly ravenous, often eating four times
the amount of disks that he used to). <People tend to
underfeed Loricariidae. Understand this: they are constant
grazers and mud sifters in the wild, and don't understand the
"two meals per day" notion many aquarists prefer. You
need to give them vegetable foods such as courgette, sweet potato
or carrot that they can nibble on through the day, plus bogwood
for fibre.> My question is this: is the Pleco suffering from
some type of nutritional imbalance that we can remedy? <Likely
not an imbalance, but quite probably not enough fibre, so that
the fish feels hungry because it isn't full. These catfish
are adapted to feeding on a bulky rather than concentrated
diet.> If he's just being rude, and that's definitely
possible, we can take him to the LFS. However, due to their lack
of adequate space for larger fishes, and the fact that hideously
overprice any fish that aren't tetras or mollies, therefore
forcing the fish to be there in less than ideal conditions for a
long period of time, I fear for his life. This would be a last
resort. Please help! Thanks. --Melinda <Seemingly no simple
answers here, but very likely these fish will need to be
separated. Perhaps try offering a better (more vegetable-rich)
diet, but if that doesn't help, you will need to rehome one
or other fish. Cheers, Neale.>
Re: My Florida Gar and his Pleco Friend, comp., fdg. -- to
Neale 8/9/08 Hi Neale-- Melinda here again. <Hello!>
You responded to my email a few weeks ago regarding our Pleco
(have since found out he is a rhino Pleco) and our Florida gar.
<Hmm... Pterygoplichthys scrophus, rather a nice catfish! Not
common in the trade, and I think quite a handsome beast.> The
Pleco was getting a little too friendly with Fluffy (the gar),
and seemed to be trying to snack on him. <Can happen; not
commonly, but does happen.> You suggested feeding a variety of
fiber-rich veggies, but predicted we'd eventually need to
separate the two. Well, Dino (the Pleco) had no intentions of
eating any of my tasty veggie offerings. In any case, we have
separated them. <Let's see if this helps. If not, then
back to the drawing board. I suppose you could try offering her
some meaty food. My Panaque is ostensibly a vegetarian, but she
enjoys raw mussels in the half shell, partially shelled shrimp
and other such delicacies. You may be able to tempt your cat to
eat these things instead of her tankmates...> Thank you for
your advice. --Melinda <Good luck! Neale.>
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Pleco... chatting... Referral
please, PLEASE! 2/17/08 Hi Neale, I went into the fish shop
today and saw a 30cm Pleco and just had to get it - now it's in my
10 gallon (just for today quarantine) as when I was going to put it in
the 200 I saw a few white spots on it. Do you think it will be ok for
today in the 10 gallon, I only put it in there because I wanted to
watch it to see if it showed any signs of distress and if those white
spot grow, or if it's just because when the lady was putting it in
the bag it got tangled in her net and she pulled it out of the net
rather then cut it out. She was also handling it roughly, so I put it
in the 10 gallon just to make sure it doesn't any infections. Will
be moving it out of there tomorrow morning. Do you think it will be ok
in there for tonight. Also, it's HUGE so how many wafers do I feed
it? Thanks, Neervana <I'd put a fish this size into a bigger
tank than 10 gallons, even for quarantining. If that means putting it
with the Pictus and the Bala Sharks, then so be it, but have Whitespot
medication to hand and treat at the first sign of disease. If you put
it in the small, immature tank you may end up poisoning the fish
(ammonia, nitrite) and having to deal with Finrot/Fungus. Don't see
any advantage to that. As for food, the golden rule with all Plecs is
to focus on the vegetables rather than pellets. I'd stick in sliced
carrot, sweet potato, potato, courgette, or cucumber as often as
required. Soft vegetables usually go overnight, but carrots often take
a few nights. Save the algae wafers for 1-2 nights per week, and
provide 3-4 of them. Once every couple of weeks add a nice little bit
of seafood: maybe a prawn, shelled mussel, or piece of white fish.
Common Plecs are omnivores, and the more varied the diet, the better.
The main thing is that they always have some vegetables to eat at
night. A bit of bogwood is also useful as a source of fibre. Cheers,
Neale.> Re: Pleco 2/17/08 Hi Neale, I did as you said and put
the Plec in with the Bala sharks and the pictus. Good thing I did it
early because after him being in the tank for so many hours he has
defecated everywhere and I couldn't even see the water clearly, it
was really messy! <Yikes!> So now he is in the 200 gallon tank,
he looks fine - He is still a dark black colour which is a good sign,
right? I read on one of your FAQs that their colour changes from darker
to paler when they are stressed and don't like the water quality.
<Perhaps; does rather depend on the species though.> I think that
it wasn't Whitespot, but just some prickly things on his back, the
armour maybe? Because it looks like a stripy pattern of dots all over
his body, in lines. Anyway, the pictus loves him and will lie down
beside him, and when he moves, the pictus moves as well!!! It looks
like they are schooling together! He keeps on chasing the sharks really
frantically, and the pictus is behind him as well. <Sounds like
they're happy.> I'm getting a bit worried as the sharks keep
jumping out of the water and I can hear them hitting the hood of the
tank and then thumping back down again. I hope he settles in, the
sharks look really scared. <Getting more Bala Shark specimens might
help. Also try adding floating plastic plants. There are some excellent
ones out at the moment for about £12 that are 3 feet long. The
leaves float along the top. Fish are less likely to jump out of tanks
with plants at the top.> I was reading about Discus fish online, and
I was wondering how many I could put in that 640 litre tank I ordered?
<A school of at least half a dozen specimens would work well in
there.> Also, would not mind buying a pair of the blue Discus. I
would like to buy them as I have never had them in an aquarium before.
Would they be able to live with Silver Dollars? <Discus are best
kept alone, or failing that, with very peaceful tankmates. Cardinal
tetras work well, and as far as catfish go, *the* Corydoras for the
Discus tank is the warm water-tolerant species Corydoras sterbai. But
I'd get a bit more experienced under your belt with your new
catfish first. Also consider carefully whether you have the right water
chemistry, and also if the nitrate level is sufficiently low (20 mg/l
or less) out of the tap. Discus are sensitive to high-nitrate,
high-hardness water. Cheers,
Neale.>
Pleco with weird spots
10/30/2007 Hello, <Hello.> I have, what I assume, is a common
Pleco (Pterygoplichthys multiradiatus). He looks like the picture that
appears with this name. <Also check Pterygoplichthys pardalis; the
two species are sold interchangeably as "Common Pleco" and
are easily confused. There are other Pterygoplichthys that might be
traded too. All very similar.> He is approximately 4 years old and
13 inches long. <Ah, still a young 'un! Maximum size of
Pterygoplichthys multiradiatus is 50 cm. These are BIG fish.> I got
him when he was less than 2 inches long and started in a 10 gallon tank
to a 20 gallon tank and now in a 55 gallon tank. <Yes, they grow
fast!> The tank has good filtration, 2 bubble curtains for aeration
and is sparsely decorated so he has room to move around with ease but
he can hide. Although, he likes to be out in the open and comes up to
the front of the tank to see me. His only tank mates are a pair of
zebra Danios. <Sounds fine. But you might want to add some more
Danios.> I feed him: algae tabs, veggie tabs, cucumbers,
occasionally water melon, he cleans up any left over fish flakes and he
keeps the tank algae free.? <All good. But do also try carrot, sweet
potato, Sushi Nori and courgette. Cucumber is 99% water, so not really
good for anything much, though I agree that all Plecs seem to love it.
Do also add some bogwood, which Plecs seem to use as a source of fibre.
The odd prawn or mussel will also be welcomed, maybe once a week.
Pterygoplichthys is an omnivore rather than a strict herbivore.> I
was having a hard time keeping the tank water clean and water
conditions stable. <No surprise. Welcome to the Big Catfish = Dirty
Tank club. I was thinking of having some jackets made up.> He was
producing a lot of waste. <You're effectively keeping a cow in
an aquarium. So expect masses of faeces. On the plus side, there's
hardly any ammonia in them, so the ammonia and nitrite will stay low.
It's more a cosmetic problem, though obviously a clogged-up filter
is a Bad Thing.> My filters were constantly dirty regardless of how
often I rinsed them out or put a clean one in. <Normal. That's
why you need something around 6 times the volume of the tank in
turnover, and ideally 10 times. In other words, in a 55 gallon tank,
you need filters with ~ 300 to 500 gallons per hour turnover.> It
was suggested to me, to add "Waste Control Organic Waste
Eliminator" by Nutrafin and "Nutrafin Cycle Biological Filter
Supplement" to help break down my Plecos waste and any left over
food. This has solved my water condition problems. <Can't think
why. Neither product sounds magical, especially the latter, which is
basically unnecessary in a healthy aquarium. The solid waste produced
by your catfish is mostly cellulose. It will break down over time, but
it is messy. Because it contains minimal nitrogen, its effect on water
quality is virtually zero. Here's my strategy: arrange your gravel
so one of the corners is shallower than in the rest of the tank. The
filter current should push the faeces into this "crater" over
time. Each day, you can siphon out the unsightly waste.> I noticed
he had a round brownish looking spot on the side of his head towards
the top. I actually thought he had gotten a burn from the heater. He
likes to get close and suck on the heater at times. Today, I noticed he
has several spots that are roundish in shape, brownish in color and
have a light white fuzz like coating on top of the spots. I had to use
a magnifying glass to see the white fuzz. I do not recall these spots
before I added the "Waste Control Organic Waste Eliminator"
by Nutrafin and "Nutrafin Cycle Biological Filter
Supplement". <Hmm... the fuzz is fungus and needs to be treated
immediately. The heater MUST have a "heater guard" around it.
These are plastic tube-shaped grills. Some heaters come with them
anyway. If yours doesn't, go buy a heater guard. Put it over the
heater. That will prevent heater burns. What you are describing is
quite common, and easily prevented.> His overall color is good, he
is eating and moving around the tank as normal. Do you have a
suggestion of what these spots are and what I should do? <The fungus
is eating up dead skin caused by heater burns.> Thanks, Julie
<Good luck, Neale>
How much to feed a Plecostomus
7/29/07 Hello, <Hail and well met.> I have read/written to
your site and found it very informative and helpful before.? My
question - I have a 12.5 inch Plecostomus. I bought him when he was one
inch long and I had a 10 gallon tank. <Almost certainly not a
Hypostomus plecostomus but something like Pterygoplichthys
multiradiatus or Pterygoplichthys pardalis, the two "common
plecs" of the trade right now. Easily get to around 45 cm long,
potentially significantly more, up to 70 cm being the record.> Since
then, he has moved from the 10 gal to a 20 gal and now a 55 gallon
tank. <Very good. A 55 gallon tank is about right for one of these
fish: they grow very fast.> He is about 4 years old. <Four down,
another twenty to go. These catfish live a long time if properly cared
for. Most *aren't* properly cared for, though.> I think I have
him with an appropriate amount of fish (calculating by fish inch per
gallon of water) in the 55 gallon tank. <Inch-per-gallon estimates
are rubbish. If I lined up 200 inch-long guppies that would be about
the length of a Great White Shark. Do you think a tank big enough for
200 guppies would house a Great White Shark? Me neither. What matters
is a bunch of factors as well as length: things like the mass
("weight") of the fish, its activity level, its
territoriality, etc. As it happens, your catfish is fine in a 55 gallon
tank.> He has quite the personality and moves all around the tank.
<Yep, they're nice fish.> I enjoy watching him.
<That's the basic idea of the hobby! Otherwise it's just
work...> At 12.5 inches in length, he appears very large to me.
<Then you should see how big they get in the wild! Your specimen is
about half the size of the largest specimens. In an aquarium, it'll
get a little larger, but 18"/45 cm is about the tops for a
tank-reared specimen.> My tank is algae free. <I bet.> How do
I know he is getting a sufficient amount of food? <A healthy Plec
should have a gently convex stomach and the eyes should be bulging out
of the skull. A starving Plec will have a concave stomach and sunken
eyes.> I feed him algae wafers and give him cucumbers once or twice
a week. <That's pretty good. But try different green foods.
Lettuce, melon rind, spinach are all good. Something with some protein,
like tinned peas, are also worth adding. Once or twice a week put a
whole prawn or mussel in the tank; they'll latch onto these and
scrape them away to nothing by morning. They also love rooting about
for small invertebrates like bloodworms and krill, but faster-moving
fish will generally eat these before the plecs get a chance.> Is
there any basic "rule" to follow on the amount of food to
supplement him with due to his size? <Not really, no. You have to go
by instinct. Pterygoplichthys are omnivores, so you want to vary the
diet as much as possible. There should always be some greens in the
tank and also some bogwood (they seem to use wood as a source of fibre)
but portions of meaty foods should be used once or twice a week, no
more. The algae wafers are a good staple, but relatively expensive.
Greens and seafood make a cheaper and just as good staple for these
fish.> Thanks, Julie <Hope this helps, Neale>
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