Elegance frag separated from shell...rdg.      9/23/12
Hello,
I successfully fragged my elegance about 6 months ago (I know, stupid idea but my beginners luck paid off). Today I found the smallest of the frags had separated from it's shell.
<Mmm, skeleton... not shell>
It looks perfectly healthy otherwise. The larger frags look fine as well.
Right now, it's drifting around when I turn the filters on. Any tips on reestablishing the shell?
<I'd wrap (loosely) some monofilament or stout thread about the tissue and the detached skeleton>
(calcium? Or is it too late?) I don't want to glue the underside.
Water temperature is around 82, other tank conditions are normal. Tank is a 34 gallon RSM.
Thanks,
Jon
<... Read here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/elegance.htm
and the linked files above. Bob Fenner>
Re: Elegance frag separated from shell 9/23/12
Hi,
Thanks for your tip. I read online that elegance corals drop buds occasionally. Do you think the elegance bud will grow a new skeleton if it finds a safe place to recover?
<No... highly unlikely... it will probably die... I'd be... reading. B>

Elegance coral 09/04/03 <Hi Vance, PF with you today> Hello WetWeb, I have a question about elegant coral, but first the data. I have a 125 gallon tank that has been up for about 6 months. We upgraded from the 55 gallon tank that was being out grown. The Set up is, two 175 watt MH, 2 160 watt VHO actinic for lighting. 100 lbs of live rock and a 2-3 inch live sand bed. We have appx a steady 1600 gallon/per hour flow rate from a combination multiple powerheads. A 55 gallon refugium for filtering and micro shrimp production. The system has been very stable. 1.023 - .024 sg,  8.2 -8.4 ph, Ca 342ppm. 0 nitrites and Ammonia and Nitrates around 10 ppm. I bought an elegant coral from my LFS that I knew was going to die if it was left in the store. It is about 12 inches in length and had already started to recede about 1 and a half inches. I read the article on your site about elegant corals. I placed it in the tank as instructed by the article, on its back with the mouths pointed up. It is in a moderate current, enough to gently move the tentacles, and it is very low in the tank. It is a purple tip, thus it is a deep water elegant coral.  I do not see signs of brown jelly, but the 1.5 inches was covered with a white skin like film. I bought this coral knowing that it would be difficult to save because of it's loss of tissue, but I really do not want to watch it just die off slowly. We are using the malachite green dip that this site recommended to another with a elegant coral receding, but have not seen an improvement thus far. Is there anything that I can do to try to save it? Thank you, Vance <Unfortunately Vance, I recently purchased an elegance that did the same thing, and was unable to save it. You might try an iodine dip, http://www.wetwebmedia.com/iodfaqs.htm. While no one has seen an elegance skeleton produce an anthocauli (hope I spelled that one right), I'm keeping mine in my tank, as no one had seen a Trachyphyllia do that till last year either. You might also want to shade the coral, in talking to Steven Pro, he theorized it might be a reaction to the tank lights. I know the store I purchased mine from kept theirs under actinics only, and when I came back 3 weeks later, the other 2 for sale were still alive. Good luck, PF>

Catalaphyllia jardinei Hi all, I have been reading about the poor survivability of elegance corals. Anthony's book suggests to leave them alone until we can be assured of getting better quality specimens. In the May 2002 FAMA Julian Sprung suggests that it is a pathogenic bacteria infection that is the main cause of the problems, and treating with the two below antibiotics will cure the problem.  <You may well want to see the "continuing discussion" re this species twixt Jules and Eric Borneman in the August 02 FAMA> So (1) do you agree with his idea to treat the coral with Doxycycline or Nitrofurazone if it begins to waist away? <Not IMO/E... much better to utilize the dip/bath procedure on arrival detailed on our site here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/elegance.htm and in places in the linked FAQs files beyond> (2) I would like to buy one but have resisted due to all the bad "press", where do you get these antibiotics, my LFS has no idea.  <Furan compounds are still sold in the ornamental aquatics trade (Look for a shop that carries Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Aquatronics, Argent Labs... lines. Doxycycline can be purchased over the Net... or through a M.D. or Vet.> Thanks Larry <I will forward your query to Anthony and Steve as well. Bob Fenner>
Catalaphyllia jardinei Hi all, I have been reading about the poor survivability of elegance corals. Anthony's book suggests to leave them alone until we can be assured of getting better quality specimens.  <yep... my general advice for the masses of casual aquarists. Dedicated folks that will study, specialize and quarantine are encouraged to do so. But know that elegant coral live in the wild in areas with VERY few if any species around them for a reason! If you are going to put this animals in a mixed garden reef aquarium... you are doing yourself, it and the industry a disservice. My advice is to have a dedicated refugium of grasses for it if not a species specific tank like one would/could/should do for anemones> In the May 2002 FAMA Julian Sprung suggests that it is a pathogenic bacteria infection that is the main cause of the problems, and treating with the two below antibiotics will cure the problem. So (1) do you agree with his idea to treat the coral with Doxycycline or Nitrofurazone if it begins to waist away?  <hmmm... I admit that something must be done. But for aquarists that cannot categorically determine the nature of the condition if pathogenic at all... the use of antibiotics indiscriminately is often a disservice to coral and world health. Do read Eric Borneman's response to Julian's theory here:  http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2002-05/eb/feature/index.htm as well as look at Julian's response in the June issue of FAMA> (2) I would like to buy one but have resisted due to all the bad "press", where do you get these antibiotics, my LFS has no idea.  <wow... get a different LFS: they at least have tons of Nitrofurazone on their shelves in several brands of medication! It is as common as dirt and has been around for years. It is a basic antibiotic that they should have been recommending to customers for fresh and saltwater fishes! Sheesh. Jungle brand Fungus Eliminator has it... as well as many other brands of meds with the name "Furan" in it. Easy to find... mail order if necessary> Thanks Larry <best regards, Anthony>

Question: I have a short tentacle elegance coral that was beautiful for the first month I had it. Then for no apparent reason it would not fully open to is full potential. It is not retracting from the skeleton, and my water quality is unchanged. With calcium reactor, ph monitor, controller, Berlin skimmer, chiller, wave makers, chemistry is always good, and lighting is metal halide. I religiously do a water change weekly. I have moved it, gave it an iodine bath and regardless of what I try it still does not want to extend all the way out. Any suggestions??
Bob's Answer: Hmmm, Linda, yes. The very best suggestion I have may not work, and that is to place this specimen in another system - if you had one with a mud/muck type filter. As true stony corals go, Elegances (Catalaphyllia jardinei, Family Caryophylliidae) are much more difficult to keep than most references give/take credit from. Next time, if there is one, do try another member of the family or add one of the mud type filters to your system. Keep these animals away from others (they're aggressive stingers) and feed them occasionally (once to three times weekly).

Yet another question about Elegance corals Dear Bob, I read you recent article in the March issue of FAMA and as result I have a few questions. Also I have some question regarding conditions I am observing in my elegance. I have had my Elegance for about five weeks, for the first three the coral was open a appeared to be healthy. For the last two the coral has been closed up, it is not retracted in it's skeleton or pulling away from the skeleton. It is very puffy and closed so that you cannot see its beautiful green color. I had fed it shrimp when it was open and it was about half way down in my tank under direct light. I have tried moving it to different locations that were both less and more intense lighting without success. I have noticed that there is white stringy stuff coming out of the area where the flesh meets the bone. There are a few spots where it is coming out of the flesh only. Also upon very close inspection I have seen two "bugs" on it. In both cases the bugs were also at the junction of the flesh and bone. The bugs were less than 1mm in size and about the same color as the bone. I was only able to see them where they were moving. I tried the Malachite Green dip that you recommend, two nights ago. Today the coral was open more and for longer. I also noticed that it is expelling black stuff from it's mouths, but the stringy stuff is still there.  My tank is a 75 with 4x96W PC's. Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrate, Phos are all 0, Calcium 440-460, Alk 7.0 dKH, Temp 79-80. I dose Kalk, Iodine, Molybdenum, Strontium. My skimmer is a Aqua C Remora. I have not run it for the last two weeks trying to get the nutrient levels up, except for about an hour a day to aerate the water. All other corals (green open brain, moon, button, xenia, polyps, mushrooms) as well as my clams are doing great.  1) What is causing my Elegance to close up? And how can I fix it? <Hard to ascertain... maybe the "bugs" you mention, perhaps just cumulative insults from collection, handling, transport from the wild... low alkalinity? I would switch out from the Kalk (Ca(OH)2) to Calcium Chloride to raise the dKH to at least 9, to avoid precipitating out the latter/alkalinity> 2) What is the white stringy stuff, and how can I fix it? <A negative reaction to "something" in the way of stimuli, or lack of "something(s)" positive... How to fix? Remove negative's), add positive's)... I would stop moving the animal to find better circulation, light, nutrient circumstances... probably becoming more of a negative.> 3) Are the bugs good or bad? If bad how can I get rid of them?  <Probably bad to inconsequential... I would eliminate them through a rinse in a pH and alkalinity (just baking soda... about a tsp. per gallon) bath <Plus five drops of iodine supplement solution>... let the specimen soak for ten minutes and shake them gently off if you can> 4) In your article under conditions you state that the light should be Low-to medium intensity. The you say that in Nature and in the Waikiki Aquarium that the elegance in under bright light. I am a little confused as to which light I should try to provide?  <Sorry for the confusion... the light in both is greatly shaded by Thalassia grasses above and around the Catalaphyllia... Is this clear? The light IS intense, but shades the animals> 5) Also in your article you state that the animals are found horizontal in nature with mouths down. How do you know how to place them so their mouths are down? My elegance is curved in shape. Should I place it so the curve is up like a U or down like a N? <What? No, the animals are found horizontal in the wild with their mouths UP, like a "V"... this is how they should be oriented (in mulm and substrate best) in captivity: "Placed in horizontal orientation, point down, mouths and tentacles facing upward," from the article itself: Home Page > 6) Should I feed my elegance? If so what?  <I would, something meaty, about twice a week maximum> 7) Should I repeat the dip? If so how often? <If you deem it useful... always in balance of trade off of the damage of moving, handling it... Move it underwater (in a jar, specimen container)... no more than three times in a week> Thanks in advance, Tim Anderson  Feel free to ask any follow up questions >> <I sense your concern, and share it. Bob Fenner>

Elegance Coral Hi Bob, Couple of quick questions...I recently ( Friday ) bought an Elegance Coral for my 55g reef and upon getting him home I noticed about a 1/2 inch of tissue recession on the coral revealing the septa sp? Anything I can do for the coral?? My current set-up is VHO. I have the coral about half way up the reef and in very little flow. Any additives, vitamins etc. I could purchase? I currently dose Kalkwasser 24/7 and add strontium and Lugol's weekly per directions. My second question deals with Lugol's and strontium. I also have a 10g Nano Reef with mushrooms, star polyps, and two cuttings from a gorgonian. My question is how do I dose the Lugol's and strontium in the 10g? The dosage on the package is 1 drop per 25 gallons on the Lugol's and 1 or 2 ml per 50 gallons on the strontium (Seachem concentrate)... Thanks for any help, Brian >> There are a few important things to tell you re your Elegance Coral... first, please see my full take on this stony coral's captive use in an article stored at www.wetwebmedia.com. In recent years, these animals have especially not proven to be hardy for aquarium use...  Next, if you want to try saving this specimen, I would do a few things. For one, do direct some more flow (non-linear) to its space... and execute the following "dip procedure" (this may seem strange, but is standard operating procedure with the family (Caryophylliidae, including the popular Euphyllias) in the trade. Make a bath of system water and enough freshwater to lower the specific gravity by a few thousandths... the exact number is unimportant... the desire here is to make a hypotonic solution to expedite transferring the dip into the animal. Next put in four times the dosage (check the label) of Malachite Green (sold as this and a few other "Ich" remedy names). Immerse the Elegance in this bath for ten minutes or so... Repeat in three days if it doesn't show signs of improvement. Regarding the issue of supplements and dosage... if it were me, I'd make a "stock solution" of these in a container of known volume (let's say a gallon jug) and use this "serial dilution" to feed the small/Nano-reef. Easier to control, and much less chance of overdosing... Does this make sense? Dose the one gallon bottle, then pour the one gallon bottle's contents, as needed, into the mini-reef. Use distilled, RO, or other purified water to make up the stock solution... and don't worry if you put in too little of these supplements in this standard... best to shy conservatively here. Bob Fenner

J. Sprung in FAQ's In your FAQ section on elegance corals Julian Sprung says the current problem with them is caused by a bacteria and to treat them with the antibiotics Nitrofurazone or Doxycycline. Can you help me locate this medication. The online fish sources don't appear to carry it. Thanks, Lee <The first is sold in the industry by a few manufacturers/distributors, check with your LFS re. The second is available through a veterinarian only as far as I'm aware. There is a dip/bath protocol for Caryophylliids mentioned on the family's coverage on WetWebMedia.com you may benefit from reading. Bob Fenner>

Elegance Coral info you might find interesting Hi Bob. We've met a couple times and corresponded once. I know you have a FAQ on your page about Elegance corals and thought you might find the following from Julian Sprung interesting (I have no idea how you 2 get along, <Fine enough personally... though our ideas, understanding of facts don't agree on some subjects> if this is copyrighted or whatever :-) I picked up on this thread (from reefs.org) because my LFS owner was recently complaining that he couldn't keep Elegance Corals in the store even though they are "supposed" to be easy. <Mmm> So Someone asked on reefs.org about "Elegance corals that shrink and die". Evidently this has been a common problem for the last 5 years or so. <More so in recent years, yes> A LFS owner from New Hampshire said it was because they are from lagoons and normally half buried in mud, that they aren't getting enough nutrition now that we have more and more efficient skimmers and other means of removing nutrients. BUT, Julian Sprung emailed the following response. The rest of this is from Julian. Take care. Hope to see you at a future WMC or MACNA--if we have either one again! <Doubtful at this point> Jim bash Topic: Has anyone found the problem with the elegance corals deflating/shrinking and slow de I hope everyone out there is listening. I have written about the elegance coral problem in my FAMA column Reef Notes (more than once) and have spoken about it at my various lectures. I don't know why my advice on this point has fallen on deaf ears. The problem with elegance coral (Catalaphyllia jardinei) that has only occurred the past several years is caused by bacteria. If you first treat the coral in either Nitrofurazone or Doxycycline for about four or five days it will not suffer the shrinking and wilting/rotting then dying problem. Corals suffering the problem can be cured by treatment if it is initiated early enough. The problem is NOT caused by starvation. Please do not continue to spread that myth as it results in the death of more coral. Tom, you are an excellent aquarist running a great shop. Please treat the elegance corals with antibiotics in a quarantine system. Please post your results here, preferably renewing the topic every week, until a few people in the industry get a clue. Apparently I alone cannot tell enough people that when something is on fire they should try to put the fire out. This is such an easy problem to solve. I have visited may wholesale facilities and recommended that they treat the elegance corals. No one does it though. Dealers could also easily do this to help their customers. Another point- if you place a sick elegance coral in a tank that contains a healthy one, the disease is contagious. Both may die. It can also be passed to other corals, but usually remains confined to elegance. That is a fascinating point, worth studying. I hope no idiot gets on this forum and accuses me of creating a false story about bacteria and elegance corals. I have no interest in stirring up controversy- my interest here is to answer the question correctly and to help improve the hobby. I believe that it is irresponsible to receive elegance corals and not treat them with antibiotics. Their chance of survival lately without treatment is very slim. With treatment they become very hardy, as they used to be. I cannot explain why this disease suddenly became a problem a few year back. All I know is that it did, and continues to be a problem today. Regarding where elegance corals come from- it is true that they are lagoon dwellers, but that has no bearing on their success in aquariums with regard to nutrients. They can be found in shallow seagrass flats and on deep reef slopes (yes, on reefs). I have seen them in various habitats in Australia, the Solomon Islands, and in Japan. They do usually occur with their base in mud or sand, sometimes on coral rubble. Sincerely, Julian Sprung <Mmm, this really doesn't sound like (word usage, syntax) like Jules... My opinions on the species are posted on WetWebMedia.com Bob Fenner>

Elegance and Doxycycline I have an elegance coral that is not doing well.. not expanding...receding.. I want to treat it with Doxycycline ... but I can't find any information on dosage...  <is there any evidence of an actual pathogenic infection? "Brown jelly", necrotic tissue...or simply recession? can you tell me how much to use?....  <I fear that medicating may do more harm than good with an antibiotic on this invertebrate. Iodine dips may be a more temperate solution if you feel you must medicate. What is the history of this animal so that I can help (how long have you had it, what is your average Ca and Alk levels, purple tip (low light) or other color, what lighting employed, animal at what depth, etc)? thanks Al Nuckols <kindly, Anthony>