What's wrong with my Bettas (RMF, feel free to chip in)      1/12/17
I have two Betta fish I got from Wal-Mart 4 days ago and I think they are really sick I believe both are males they are in different tanks.
<Just as well.>
The first two pictures attached are of the Betta i have the highest concern about he doesn't eat well and just sits at bottom of tank no changed his water and one of his fins broke off
<Is this the blue fish?>
he's gasping for air and has a copper velvet look to his face and the other Betta seems ok but has discolor around his face and beard i have NutraFin Betta plus should I add to their tanks?
<A good rule is not to add medication unless you've diagnosed the problem.
Imagine if your doctor just picked out some random medications and gave them to you without asking what the problem was! Obviously not a good idea.
So, first things first, need to review the tank. Almost always, sick Bettas are sick because of their environment. I'm sure there are exceptions but I've never seen one. So, in other words, let's review the tank. At minimum, check the biological filter is working, and check the heater is working.
Let me be clear here: lack of filter and lack of heat are excellent ways to kill Bettas. Grab an ammonia or nitrite test kit, and test the water. Of the two kits, I prefer nitrite (with an "i", not nitrate with an "a").
Anyway, anything that is not zero is why your fish might be sick. Non-zero ammonia and nitrite kill fish, quickly or slowly depending on how much over zero they are. Secondly, look at the thermometer. Your tank should be about 25 C/77 F. Some unscrupulous fish shops will tell you a Betta can be kept in an unheated tank. Maybe spouting some baloney about central heating or placing a lamp over the tank. This is rubbish. Unless you keep the heater in your house set at 25 C/77 F (which is insanely hot!) your room is too cold, and Bettas are very sensitive to both cold water and, crucially, cold air (because they breathe air). So check the thermostat, and if necessary, turn the heater up. Cold Bettas become lethargic, their fins become clamped, they stop eating, and before long infections get hold of them, including Finrot.>
I also have Marcel CopperSafe medication should i treat both tanks?
<See above. Neither fish seems to have any obvious disease beyond stress, so my diagnosis would be environmental. Review; correct; wait for nature to take its course. Adding medications for Finrot or Fungus without fixing the environmental cause is pointless.>
Can i use these two treatments together? If so how much of each? I have attached photos of my Bettas and the treatments i have I'm urgently seeking a response in fear my fish will die soon thank u so much for reading this.
<Let me direct you to some reading:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/fwsubwebindex/bettadiseases.htm
Aside from that summary, Bob's electronic book is probably the best $6 you'll spend if you're serious about keeping Bettas long term. Hope this helps, Neale.>

Betta PopEye question     1/8/17
Hi,
<Howdy!>
I have a juvenile Crowntail Betta in a 10 gallon aquarium, whom I "rescued" about a month ago from Wal-Mart where he sat in very dirty water for who knows how long. He's about 1.5 inches long and lives on his own. The aquarium has a heater, a filter stacked with a foam sponge and ceramic media, an air stone, and some silk plants. I change some of
the water once a week. The water temperature is 80 F, the pH is 7, and the nitrite level is 0. I feed him small pellets and occasionally a shrimp log. (He was not interested in live ghost shrimp, which I tried to give him for a protein boost.)
<Mmm; Ghost Shrimp? Likely much too large...>
He already had bilateral PopEye when I rescued him, though one side was (and still is) noticeably more swollen than the other, and for the past month I've tried various treatments to fix it.
<Just good conditions and nutrition... Your good care, will likely solve these issues in time>
At first I was hopeful clean water would suffice and that he would heal on his own, but after his first two weeks and there was no change, I then tried aquarium salt (following the advice of Dr Martin Brammah, author of The Betta Bible), which seemed to soften the edges of his swollen eyes a little but didn't do much else, and then put him in QT with a full course of tetracycline.
Nothing has solved his problem yet, and now his worse eye appears cloudy, so the condition seems to be worsening instead of improving.
<Mmm; I might try Epsom...>
After searching through your site's articles and FAQs, I am prepared to try a double-strength dose of Jungle's "Fungus Clear" and 2 TBSP Epsom salt three times in 5 days with small daily water changes. My questions are: (1) Do I need to replace the aquarium salt water with plain water before starting Epsom salts or can they be combined?
<I'd dilute the present salt content by half or so first... Through a water change or two>
(2) Should I do the double-strength dose of Fungus Clear three times in 5 days as well, or does the "three times in 5 days" only apply to the Epsom salts?
<IF you use the Fungus Clear, only dose three times, do NOT triple dose. If it were me/mine, I'd just the Epsom>
(3) Do I need to QT him for this combined treatment or can I keep him in his display tank?
<Best to leave, treat in the display tank>
and (4) When should I expect to see improvement, to know
if I then need to move on to something like Chloramphenicol or Oxytetracycline?
<I'd shy away from using these antibiotics. They rarely do much/any good in these circumstances, and can do real harm. >
Thank you so much!
-Elle J.
<Welcome. Bob Fenner>

Re: Betta PopEye question      1/28/17
Hi,
<Elle,>
This is an update on my Betta's PopEye condition, and I have a new question. Despite Epsom salt treatment, and later the Fungus Clear, there has been no change in his eyes. They are no worse, but no better either.
<That at least suggests the infection has leveled off, or the eye is not being further damaged. Fish eyes take a long time to heal, weeks if not months. Sometimes they never heal and the eye eventually falls off, though losing one eye rarely inconveniences the fish noticeably. Losing both eyes is more of an issue, except in the case of those nocturnal species like catfish and loaches that barely use their eyes anyways.>
And now there seems to be a new issue, with it being nearly impossible to keep the display tank clean.
<I see this.>
The tank developed cloudy debris after the Fungus Clear treatment, so it was emptied and thoroughly rinsed (including plants), and brand new (thoroughly rinsed) gravel put in. It was beautifully clear at first, but then the debris came back. Approximately 3 days after a 20-25% water change, the water becomes cloudy with white dust-like debris, and when I
test the water it shows PPM of "1" for nitrites, which is just inside the "stress" level, as well as a 6.2 pH, which I know is low for a Betta.
<Quite so. Below pH 7, biological filtration proceeds more slowly, and is has been observed that the bacteria responsible hardly work at all below pH 6. So in tanks where pH is significantly below 7, a combination of low stocking/modest feeding to minimise nutrient input; generous provision of the finest (in size) viable filter media to trap silt and host bacteria per square cm; and the use of fast-growing plants will all help to maintain good water quality. One problem with Betta tanks is the need for low flow rates, which means water passes through the biological media slowly. Any
persistent scum on the surface of a lightly-stocked tank usually comes down to inadequate water movement. So realistically, what you're dealing with is an imperfect balance of flow rate, filter medium type, pH, and possibly
residual silt from the new gravel. Try increasing flow rate, up to the point your Betta will tolerate happily; try using a finer grade of medium to trap silt particles. Improving water circulation will help break up the scum at the surface, so an airstone or even cleverer siting of the existing filter (or its outlet) to splash the water more and draw a steady current
around the tank. Make sense?>
My son has an established, healthy tank, and I added some of that "dirty" water to help establish mine with healthy bacteria again, but it's not made a difference.
<See above; though adding healthy filter medium from his tank could certainly jump-start a lacklustre biological filter.>
I've tested the water right out of the tap and the pH is closer to 6.8, so maybe something in the tank is causing the pH to drop.
<Usually some combination of: decaying organic matter generally; driftwood or some other source of tannins; accumulating nitrate (which forms nitric acid); accumulating phosphate (phosphoric acid); high CO2 concentration
from inadequate water movement at the surface (which forms carbonic acid).
In addition, overuse of pH-down products will, of course, cause an unstable, declining pH.>
I don't know if the high nitrites and the low pH are related or coincidental, and I have no idea what could be causing the debris in a newly cleaned 10-gallon tank with one tiny Betta in it. I've trained him to swim into a cup, so I can remove him from the tank for easier feedings since his vision is impaired, so his tank never even sees food. I can't think what could be causing debris or high nitrites.
<Understood; but see above: there are other sources of acidity.>
Some friends have suggested fewer water changes, to allow the bacteria to establish, but I don't like him being in water with high nitrites for
longer than necessary, especially considering his ongoing PopEye problem.
<Water changes are immaterial to establishing a filter bacteria once the initial ammonia and nitrite spikes have passed. Virtually all the bacteria we want are on solid surfaces near flowing water, whether the filter media or across the outside of solid objects like gravel particles or plant leaves. Of course if you set a tank up from scratch, and do so many water changes the ammonia never stays above zero for long, it'll take a long while for filter bacteria to become established. Hence levels of 0.5, 1, or even higher are tolerated during the first 4-6 weeks. But once the filter bacteria are established, water changes are all good, provided water chemistry and temperature stay steady.>
It's been approximately two weeks and the debris is building and getting worse between changes. I greatly appreciate any advice you may have about what might be going on and how to fix it? Thank you! -Elle J.
<Hope this helps. Neale.>

Swollen Lip, now swollen gill (RMF, anything to add?) <<Zip. B>>     12/31/16
Hello, I have had a 20 Gallon Betta sorority tank for about 9 months now.
<Not totally convinced these work, though I understand they're popular.
Much better, in my opinion, is to keep a single female alongside harmless community species such as Corydoras spp.>
I have had to restock the tank twice due to gradual deaths (crown tails popping from overeating, a few have just become ill and progressed to the point of death with no outward sign of why), and one of the fish quickly developed Ich a day or two after bringing her home. I separated her once I noticed it and treated her with API Ich Cure for a week and a single dose
in the community tank while watching to see if anyone else developed it (they didn't).
<Hmm... I'd be skeptical, because Whitespot is so very contagious.>
Unfortunately the tank I used to separate her (5 gallon with internal filter) had a fairly strong filter current that she detested more than the Ich. She found the only hole in the lid and was able to jump out, which I discovered about 20 minutes later. She was a cold fish but recovered from her escape and from the Ich, and I dampened the outflow of the filter such that it barely disturbed the tank (and used painters tape to make sure there were no gaps big enough for her to jump out again). She was happy there for several months as any attempt to putting her back with the rest was a failure (she would quickly isolate once she felt ganged-up-on even following sorority protocol of having the newest/weakest fish in first, then introducing the next aggressive fish up until they're all back).
<Unfortunately this sort of thing does seem to be quite common with female Bettas. They're just not social fish, and would naturally live a more solitary sort of life. In very big groups, say, ten specimens, none would be dominant. But if you're keeping two or three or four specimens, it does seem to me that female Bettas are apt to be intolerant of one another. Why, I cannot say. But your experience is by no means unusual.>
During this time I found a wooden cave that I wanted to string with moss to make a cute arrangement, not knowing at the time that reptile-suitable wood is often not suitable for fish. A white mold or fungus developed on the wood and the nearby sand which would detach easily if disturbed.
<Correct. Unless wood is cured first (which means soaking in water for some months) it contains organic material. When placed in water said material becomes damp enough to support fungi, which doesn't happen in reptile vivaria. Bottom line, the wood rots. Or cures, if you prefer! The fungus is harmless, and some fish (like big Plecs) will even eat it. But it doesn't
do any good to water quality, and there's also a risk the decaying wood can affect water chemistry too.>
Any attempt to clean off the fungus (rubbing off under tap water with fingers or toothbrush) only lasted about a week before it was right back.
<Yes; curing takes some months, if not years. Hence aquarium bogwood is normally harvested from rivers and swamps where the wood has been cured naturally, perhaps over many years.>
I finally got rid of the wood, sucked out as much of the mold as possible, and the tank seemed to settle down into clarity. It was toward the end of the battle with the mold that I noticed her mouth began to get swollen, especially the lower lip. It didn't seem to bother her much except needing to push a little more above the water to breathe. Water changes, aquarium salt, heat at ~84 degrees, Melafix, and Pimafix have done nothing to get the swelling to go down.
<Let me be clear here, that both Melafix and Pimafix are, at best, unreliable; at worst, toxic. They're marketed as being somehow "natural" but that's very misleading because it implies they're safe. A little time reading over WWM will report many instances where these two have either done no good at all, or perhaps made things worse. If I was being charitable about them, I'd suggest they have a role preventing infection, e.g., if fins are damaged by fighting. But once you see symptoms, it's time to get out the big boys: antibiotics, copper- and formalin-based medications, or whatever else is appropriate to your situation and location.>
I was originally hoping the swelling would go down once the source of the fungus was gone, assuming that her mouth had the same fungus as the wood, but it has not.
<There's almost zero chance the fungus on the wood is the fungus on your fish! The two things are unrelated, except perhaps that decaying wood affected water quality, and that made your Betta more prone to infection.
But the actual fungus species involved will almost certainly be different.>
It appears that it's either still there and fairly benign, or has altered her face permanently like little fish warts. It does not seem to affect her eating, color, or movement, just a bit with the breathing. About 2 weeks ago I was critically low on fish in my main tank (along with a very fat remaining crown tail that was becoming very food aggressive), so I got 4 new girls, moved this swollen lip fish to the 20 gallon sorority tank, and moved my fatty to the 5 gallon to control her food better. I introduced the
new girls first together, then this swollen lip fish since she also hadn't been with other recently, then on up the aggression ladder until everyone was in. They are all surprisingly happy together and I've had by far the least amount of aggression visible so far. Everyone seems very balanced aggression-wise, though there have been a few tears in fins here and there in the 4 new girls. Back to the swollen-lipped fish. I have recently noticed one of her gills is staying a bit flared permanently, as if the tissue below is swollen.
<This is actually fairly common on farmed Bettas; whether caused by trauma or genetics I cannot say. Untreatable, but may improve if it isn't genetic. On the other hand, if Whitespot or Velvet were in the tank at some point, physical damage, i.e., trauma, to the gill lamellae is extremely likely.
Exposure to non-zero ammonia levels can also cause damage, similar to the "Gill Curl" seen in bigger aquarium fish like Arowanas and some cichlids.>
She has been acting a little off today, staying by the top a lot and just a tad less active. I have just separated her into a 1.5 gallon quarantine tank with heater and bubble filter (though that is now off as she is just so sensitive to water movement, no carbon). Temp is at 85 degrees (20 gallon has been at 84 since adding all the new fish to help keep them healthier).
<This is often more to do with the warmer air above the tank, which is crucial; optimal water temperature is actually a little lower for Bettas generally.>
There is no visible "cotton" or fungus in her mouth, just what I assume are her little teeth showing on the bottom more swollen lip.
<I agree. This looks post-infection to me. No specific treatment I can think of, but I would be optimising living conditions and diet.>
For her gill, I see the edge of her beard (I've always been able to see a little line of black beard when she's resting) and what almost looks like an added blue scale growing from the edge of her gill flap. I see no redness, white stuff, or anything to point toward a specific disease. It literally looks as if she's flared so hard one side won't go down all the way. I should also note that her anal fin is much longer than my other girls, and has grown out some as she's aged, so I almost wonder if she's some sort of poorly-breed mutant that keeps growing new stuff (tally of her anal fin, her mouth puffiness, and her gill of weird growths). She has now had the swollen mouth for about 2-3 months, so I'm doubting Columnaris, but I'm looking for whatever heavier treatment would help. I have had a very hard time finding info that seems in line with what she's dealing with to feel comfortable dosing her with something yet. Thank you for any and all help!
<Hope the above helps. Cheers, Neale.>