Need advice... data, reading...      1/16/13
I have a 13 year old comet goldfish that is sitting at bottom of 20 gallon tank,
<... this volume is likely too small...>
 normally he swims around in morning for food, today he isn't, I changed out some water all parameters are good,
<... meaning what? Need values, not subjective evaluations>
always has had low hardness, this is nothing unusual, but the rest are good, should I put salt or Epsom salt or what in tank, should I feed a pea?
<... Where to start here? Need data... let's have you read here:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/GFEnvDisF8.htm
and the linked files above to give you insight as to what we're looking for; the common mistakes (env.) made by folks keeping (esp. comet) goldfish. Bob Fenner>
Please let me know
Thanks
Cathy Hart
 Re: Need advice     1/16/13
the water test are normal ranges,
<?>
this is what I meant, I did notice that on top of his body near his dorsal fin ,there are tiny black spots that look like if you was to take his scale off, it would be on the scale, no where else on body, just there, look gray under light and darker without light, about 4 of them, what could this be and what do I do
<.... don't write: read. B>
Re: Need advice     1/16/13
I need help, I try to read those on your site, I cant understand what I am reading and a lot of time I keep reading and it is not anything to do with my situation , what exactly should I read?? T
<... where you were referred initially...>
help, GF... lost again    1/17/13
would someone please help me with my goldfish I cant find anything to read I need some answers I sent previous mail about how he has been all day he
usually starts morning by swimming around looking for food today he just sit in corner I did several water changes at one point I added tsp salt
<Why?>
then removed it, I changed one filter he list to one side when he gets up to swim swims okay but has list what can I do to help him, I fed him and he
ate
thanks cathy
<Hello Cathy. Did you read the e-mail I sent you last time around? We do need information about your aquarium. Almost certainly the problem is with
his environment, so without knowing tank size, water quality and water chemistry we can't pin down the precise problem. Meantime, read here:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/fwsubwebindex/goldfish101art.htm
Most problems with Goldfish come from keeping them in an aquarium that's too small for them. Cheers, Neale.>
Re: help
I have read this,
<So what differences are there between your aquarium and the aquarium we recommended? What about differences in care, diet, water chemistry…?>
I couldn't get any answers about my problem so I had to pay 38 dollars for a fish expert to tell me about nothing,
<?!?>
she said it sounds like it has black Ich, has 4 coin head size spots between head and top fin,
<Hmm… no. Let's be clear. Black Spot Disease is caused by parasites that normally live in ponds and require animals such as birds to complete their life cycle. So while you can buy Goldfish with Black Spot Disease, it cures itself pretty much every time once the Goldfish are moved indoors. Black Spot Disease is like Whitespot in appearance, except the spots are black. The spots are teeny-tiny, smaller than salt grains. What you're describing sounds more like ammonia burns. These are irregular black, grey or dark greenish-grey patches on Goldfish. The patches are of variable size, though typically fingernail-size. Obviously ammonia burns are caused by ammonia in the water, so wherever you see ammonia burns on Goldfish, you're looking at Goldfish that are kept in a tank that's too small and/or under-filtered. Fix the environment, and the ammonia burns will heal in time. No other treatment is needed unless the wounds become infected, in which case Finrot or Fungus are common problems.>
also swims funny or sits in corner, I have always told you he has been in 20 gallon tank alone and you tell me no,
<We/I don't remember the size of every aquarium from everyone who e-mails me! That'd be thousands of tanks! In any event: 20 gallons is too small. Upgrade or rehome this fish for something suitable for 20 gallons, such as Danios.>
he has always been fine in this,
<He was smaller before. As he grows, he produces more ammonia, needs more oxygen and acidifies the aquarium faster between water changes. Eventually a tipping point is reached, and a tank that worked when your Goldfish was a youngster stops being safe or viable any longer. Nothing new here. The vast majority of Goldfish kept in tanks 20 gallons or smaller die prematurely, and I'm meaning something like 95% of them, if not more. Virtually all those unfortunately Goldfish "flushed" after a few months, couple of years come from tanks 20 gallons or smaller. No science here, and no need for you to experiment with a 20-gallon tank. You need 30+ US gallons for Goldfish, or if you're stuck with 20 gallons, choose suitable fish like Danios, Platies and Corydoras.>
swims well no problems, he don't see so well so he doesn't seem to mind it, I clean 3 gallons out every 4 days and only add stress coat, he eats pellets and some flakes, water is good except for hardness but has always been like this, something else is wrong, I know how my fish acts. Tey told me to use either jungle parasite clear or preferred tetra lifeguard, I am not sure which one to use, don't really feel happy with what they said, black Ich, how would it get that??
Thanks again
Cathy
<Hope this clears things up. Cheers, Neale.>
Re: help
I must not have gotten emai about needing all that info, I just need to know how to help a fish that is listing when he swims, how to tell if its constipation, swim bladder or parasites, like the just answer told me to treat??? if any of these how do I treat them, I cant find that in your site, specific answers, I am about blind from reading for over 18 hours already searching for an answer
<Please read my previous email/emails. The problem is the environment.
Don't spend money on "fish experts" or pointless medicines; get a bigger aquarium with adequate, appropriate filtration. Cheers, Neale.>
Re: help...
I had someone tell me with a photo that didn't even look like my fish problem, that my fish has black Ich, I did many water changes last night until 3 am, he seems okay for now, my test kits might not be working right and at one point I couldn't even tell if the ammonia was up or in normal range.
<Ammonia is a tricky test kit. It should be zero, and ordinarily, anything above zero is bad news. The higher above zero, the quicker your fish will get sick and die. But ammonia test kits can return "false positives" if you use certain water conditioners. So, I'd test a sample of fresh tap water with water conditioner added, and then aquarium water, and see if they're different. If the aquarium water has a higher ammonia reading than the tap water, that means the tank is overstocked and/or under-filtered. In any case, I recommend you use a nitrite (with an "i", rather than nitrate with an "a") test kit either instead of ammonia or as well as ammonia. Again, any non-zero nitrite reading is bad.>
I wanted to ask another thing, Since he cant see well, I take sinking pellets after soaking and put them on the glass part of tank, (I move the gravel) I guide him to this area with a net, seems to always hit head area, could this be what might have caused these tiny black marks that look as they are on the scales , almost as if you could take them off if removing scale??
<Not sure I understand your question. Don't try to physically remove anything from your fish. Goldfish can find food perfectly well in opaque water, so blindness isn't much/any disability to them.>
Sorry for so many questions, I cant find anything about this is your pages
Cathy
<Welcome, Neale.>
Re: help
your kind and I am seeing ammonia now, never have before , don’t know what happened, he is old, wouldn’t he be as big as he is gonna be, after 13 yrs or so??
<Yes, pretty much. Fish grow continuously, from birth to death, but the rate at which they grow slows down dramatically as they age. Goldfish grow quickly for the first couples years, then growth slows down a lot, and they're about as big as they're going to be within 3-5 years depending on water temperature (they grow faster when kept warm). For an indoor "fancy" Goldfish like a Black Moor or Fantail, around 20 cm/8 inches is a good size for a specimen kept indoors.>
I am thinking something happened to biological filter, I changed them both out too soon in between and clean the gravel everytime I clean water, every 4 days, do you think I will be recycling again after 13 yrs in this tank?
<If filter is running and otherwise working normally, it shouldn't need to be "cycled" a second time. Give the filter media a decent rinse in a bucket of aquarium water, and maybe replace up to half the filter media if such media is so dirty it can't be cleaned. Cheers, Neale.>
Test kit

Wow this is interesting, I did what you said with the test kits, got water
from tap with stress coat in it and water from tank, the water from tap
showed ammonia
<Not uncommon. Ammonia is in many tap water supplies, especially in rural
areas; check with your water supplier for details and normal amounts.
Chloramine can deliver positive ammonia results too. Use a good water
conditioner that neutralises BOTH ammonia and Chloramine (alongside the
usual ammonia and copper) and you can normally ignore both of these
contaminants.>
and now water in tank is back normal, the nitrite is 0
<If nitrite is zero in the aquarium, and you have a biological filter, then
that's very good news, and suggests the aquarium is basically sound.>
I have a well, what on earth would there be ammonia in it from,
<Ammonia in drinking water comes from many sources, but run-off from farms
is a/the major one.>
and does using stress coat cause ammonia, this water was taken from a
gallon jug I had used some to put in tank, it already had stress coat in
it, it had sit overnight, not actually straight from tap but was when I put
it in last night, it is tap water that had a bit of stress coat in it, but
still am I adding ammonia to this tank when I change water?
<If you treat with a water conditioner that neutralises tap water ammonia,
then you can largely ignore this source of ammonia. Still, it's a good plan
to treat this water, and let it sit an hour or more before use so that the
ammonia can be fully neutralised (read the instructions on the water
conditioner). I'd also suggest more, smaller water changes so that any
exposure to ammonia is minimised. So two 10% water changes a week rather
than one 20% change. Cheers, Neale.>
Ammonia

Incredible, I just did another ammonia test on straight tap water (I have a well) and it read high ammonia, the test with the stress coat wasn’t as bad as straight from tap, am I putting water in tank with levels of ammonia this high, what can I do,I have been changing out water for two days in tank, oh I am scared now!
<Do see previous messages. Cheers, Neale.>
amquel

regarding the messages I sent about water and ammonia, I do have a bottle
of Amquel liquid, I have had it a year or two, I don't see expiration date
on it, should I use it instead of stress coat to remove ammonia from my tap
water? Or just leave it go as is, the tank water showed 0 and the tap water
shows ammonia?? I don't know how long amquel can last do you?? I bought it
a year or so ago?? Can it be used in tank water if there is already stress
coat in there?
<AmQuel is a good product for this sort of thing. If you've stored in a
cool, dark place it should be fine to use. Cheers, Neale.>
Re: Test kit

I have dr tims one and only in tank along with stress coat, can I put some
prime in there too
<Prime is the ONLY product of these three you MUST use every time. It's a
water conditioner. One-and-Only is supposedly a bacteria supplement; it
probably doesn't work nearly as well as marketing suggests (most of these
non-refridgerated bacteria products seem pretty unreliable).  Stress Coat
is a useful aid when fish are damaged or, like yours, suffering ammonia
burns. But once the fish is healthy, it needn't be used.>
 it is still once again showing a bit of ammonia, I can tell when the fish
don't swim, I check and it is up .25
<The aim is zero ammonia. Don't feed while ammonia isn't zero. Improve
filtration and increase aquarium size. Frequent water changes can help, but
long-term, it's all about filtration and aquarium size. Cheers, Neale.>

bio sponge 1/18./2013
Hello again, I have an idea to remove this ammonia in the tank I changed out filters , something caused this to happen and fish is letting me know, I have 2 twenty gallon tanks on top of each other, on the bottom are two smaller comet goldfish , no ammonia and a loaded bio sponge, can I take it and switch it with the top one I have been talking about with one fish in it, his sponge is not so loaded so to speak, will there be any problems caused if I did this? Thank you again Cathy
<You can remove up to half of the mature biological filter media from an established aquarium and not cause problems. Remove filter media can indeed be used to "jump start" an immature or otherwise inadequate biological filter. The risk, of course, is transferring parasites from the donor aquarium to the recipient, so don't do this if the donor aquarium has problems of its own. Cheers, Neale.>
Re: bio sponge 1/19./2013
Thank you for all the help Neale, your kind and helpful especially when I need it most! Have a good weekend Cathy
<Glad to help. Good luck, Neale.
Re: Test kit 1/18/2013
Okay, I will use the prime, however I have had it for a year or so, does it expire?? I have a bit of stress coat in tank now, will it be okay if I still put prime in there, I have found my tap water has high ammonia in it!! Scary
<Like most household chemicals, if the water conditioner is kept in a cool, dark place it should be safe to use for at least a year, if not longer. Cheers, Neale.>

Spots 1/18./2013
Okay one more thing and I will try my best not to bother you anymore for now! I got a close look again tonight at my fish, I was explaining how he had these pin head sized black dots along top between head and fin, was told it is black Ich!??
<Black Ick disease is exclusively marine. If you have black spots on a freshwater fish, it's usually on pond fish infested with parasites that normally cause no harm and die out eventually. Of course if the environment is poor then any parasites, even normally harmless ones, can allow a fish to become weakened enough for secondary infections to set in.>
Anyhow I looked again tonight, he has some more and a few are a tiny bit bigger, in same area, now upon looking closer with what you explained to me about the scales, it does look more under the scales, what could this be, they are not big round spots, like I see in photos of ammonia burn Thank You again Cathy
<Do review the last few e-mails sent re: ammonia burns versus freshwater (pond fish) "Black Spot Disease" and act accordingly. Cheers, Neale.>
Re: Spots 1/19./2013
Here is a photo of the spots on my goldfish, can you tell what it is, he is better acting but seems weak when he goes to eat he sorta leans over
Cathy
<Does look more like ammonia burns or simply a "change" in colour -- many non-pedigree Goldfish develop bronze-green patches as they age, somewhat like their wild ancestors. In any event, not Black Spot Disease. Cheers, Neale.>

bio sponge 1/18./2013
Hello again, I have an idea to remove this ammonia in the tank I changed out filters , something caused this to happen and fish is letting me know, I have 2 twenty gallon tanks on top of each other, on the bottom are two smaller comet goldfish , no ammonia and a loaded bio sponge, can I take it and switch it with the top one I have been talking about with one fish in it, his sponge is not so loaded so to speak, will there be any problems caused if I did this? Thank you again Cathy
<You can remove up to half of the mature biological filter media from an established aquarium and not cause problems. Remove filter media can indeed be used to "jump start" an immature or otherwise inadequate biological filter. The risk, of course, is transferring parasites from the donor aquarium to the recipient, so don't do this if the donor aquarium has problems of its own. Cheers, Neale.>
Re: bio sponge 1/19./2013
Thank you for all the help Neale, your kind and helpful especially when I need it most! Have a good weekend Cathy
<Glad to help. Good luck, Neale.
Re: Test kit 1/18/2013
Okay, I will use the prime, however I have had it for a year or so, does it expire?? I have a bit of stress coat in tank now, will it be okay if I still put prime in there, I have found my tap water has high ammonia in it!! Scary
<Like most household chemicals, if the water conditioner is kept in a cool, dark place it should be safe to use for at least a year, if not longer. Cheers, Neale.>

two test... Folks who won't read, help themselves...chatting  1/21/13
Hello there, I need some help again, I did some test on different water
sources, I did tap shows ammonia, I did water treated with stress coat and
sit over night, ammonia, then I did tank again ammonia 0,25, I did ANOTHER
tank I have 2 comet goldfish in and it is 0 ammonia, Wow don't know what to
do, I took the loaded sponge from good tank a few days ago and traded it in
bad tank, I added 2 capfuls of dr tims one and only I had overnighted to
me! I am at a loss here, certainly must be why my bigger fish at top tank
is not acting good, Please help, I did 8-9 gallon water changes since last
wed, and am now afraid to do more, I had a bit of prime in a few days ago,
don't even know if I can use prime and stress coat together,
<Yes.>
I have to help him somehow! I added extra air stone , at a loss now!
Thanks so much
Cathy
<Put the test kits down. I suspect you're panicking more than you need to,
and the ammonia test kit is just adding to your confusion. Let's assume the
ammonia in the tap water is neutralised by the Prime (which is what should
happen if used properly). Stop feeding the fish. Do 20-25% water changes
every 1-2 days. Carry on like this for a week: no food, but regular water
changes. Then do a nitrite (not ammonia) test for each aquarium you have.
Dollars to donuts the nitrite value will be at or close to zero, which
means things are either okay or close to okay. Start feeding now, very
little, a flake as big as the eyeball of each fish is all it needs, once
per day. Do this for a week, doing your nitrite test every 1-2 days. If
nitrite is zero or close to zero, you can spread out your water changes to
every 3-4 days, and the following week, slightly increase the feeding, and
spread out water changes to once a week. Cheers, Neale.>
Re: Test kit
one more thing in regard to last message, I let the test tube sit with
solution and water from good tank a bit longer then needed, it did turn to
0.25 does leaving them longer make any difference??
<Refer to the instructions that came with your test kit. It's been years
since I used an ammonia test kit, and I certainly don't know the brand
you're using (and it likely isn't sold in the UK anyway).>
I added another capful of one and only to bad tank, I don't know now what
tank is the bad tank!!
Thanks
Cathy
<Welcome, Neale.>
Re: two test
okay, now I have a good plan, will do this, yes the test kits are driving
me nuts, they are api test kits, I tested nitrite a few days ago and it was 0.
<Which is good news. Nitrite test kits are generally less likely to mislead
the aquarist than ammonia test kits.>
still gonna do as you say, so it is okay to do this much water changing
even though I have been doing some small ones every day for a week??
<Yes. Water changes will of course remove medicines added, but most
medicines last about 24 hours per dose before the filter removes them
anyway. So if you add medicine to your aquarium, do so AFTER any water
changes, and leave the next water change until the following day.
Otherwise, water changes do no harm -- ever -- if you keep water
temperature and water chemistry about the same. After all, a fish in a
river is swimming in new water all the time! Remember, the "good bacteria"
we rely upon as fishkeepers live in the filter, not the water.>
Is it okay to use all this with one and only that is already in tank??
Prime, one and only and stress coat??
<The One & Only is unlikely to do much good or bad either way, so don't
worry about it. To some extent, the same is true for the Stress Coat,
though it may help your ailing Goldfish a bit. The Prime is the one to take
seriously because you tap water contains ammonia (as well as chlorine and
likely chloramine) so use that precisely and exactly as described on the
bottle.>
Thanks for the ideas, gonna give them a go!
<Good luck, Neale.>
please be there
its 1 30 am here and I am desparetely trying to save my goldfish I was
mailing you about, I have the tap water with ammonia in it and I don't know
what else to do now,
<Have written, explained.>
he is starting to swim fast and as he does he goes to his side a lot, what
can I do??
<Do nothing. Don't panic. The fundamental problem as I've told you about a
dozen times now is the aquarium is too small. Goldfish rarely do well or
live long in small tanks. For now, direct your energy into planning for a
30-gallon aquarium, and in the meantime, concentrate on making regular
small water changes. Add the Prime to neutralise ammonia (and chlorine and
chloramine). Make sure the temperature of new water is about the same as
the old water.>
Please help me I cant think anymore
<Which is not helpful. Read my messages and the articles you were directed
to. Then think about what you've learned, and act (or not) accordingly.
Panicking won't help. I'm off to work now, so you'll be on your own for the
next few hours! Neale.>
Re: please be there 1/21/13
My old fish died , up all night trying to help him , I suppose I killed him
in trying, it is now 6 am here and cleaning up, I hope I did right, I cant
think what might have happened, the other tank has same ammonia as top and
always has now that I think about it, I don't think ammonia killed him,
<Non-zero ammonia levels, if untreated, can/will kill. But if nitrite
levels were zero, and you know the ammonia comes from the tap water, then
treating with suitable water conditioner should remove this risk factor.>
cant imagine what the black marks and only marks he had on him would have
been,
<Me neither.>
thanks to Neale and everyone else for your help, you don't know how
important it is to be able to talk to someone when needed
Thanks again
Cathy
<Most welcome, Neale.>

re: Question, more chatting re GF, sans reading   - 1/25/13
Hi there,
<Cathy>
After desperately trying to help my large goldfish of 13 yrs or so and
failed.
<Sorry to hear that.>
 After he died, I started paying more attention to my smaller common (I
think) not fancy goldfish in the other 20 tank, I changed water today , 3
gallons,
<Might need to change more. How big were/are the two fish?>
 I did have health dept test water for me, they called to day and said I
have .11 ammonia in water,
<Tank or tap?>
My test are still showing 0.25 in my tank, I have a little ammonia
indicator in there says its good, its an API water test kit, The water
people are coming on Monday to see what is wrong and what can be done if
anything,
<Shouldn't have any ammonia in the tank at all.>
most likey first thing will get new softener as this one is 30 yrs old, My
NITRITES are always 0, does this mean I am okay,
not to worry,
<Not really.>
that the fish might be producing the ammonia or it came from tap and will
convert and due to water change??
<Either could explain.>
Maybe I do too many, I do them about every 4 days and take out 2.5 gallons
each time.
<No, frequent water changes are beneficial. If anything, I'd say you aren't
changing enough water. I usually do between a quarter and a third of the
tank volume.>
 I add stress coat. I have a well. the thing that bothers me and I was
thinking I have a fish with digestive issues as he always sits at top
looking out toward me but sits up there over where the filter is, not under
it but in front of it toward front but horizontally on top of water,
sometimes he swims with jerky motion to bottom unless I drop a pea in there
and all of a sudden he swims like normal looking for the pea,
<Could be an oxygen deficiency. A digestion issue would likely manifest
itself in bloating.>
 The concern came when I seen the other going to top a few times after
changing water, I didn't think much of it with the one that is always at
top until the other did it
any suggestions,
<You definitely need to find out where the ammonia is coming from and
address it. Live plants like java moss or java fern might be enough to
absorb 0.25 PPM.>
Thanks
Cathy
<Welcome--Rick>
 In reference to last question and problems I am having with ammonia in tap
water and nitrites 0 but still showing ammonia in tank at 0.25 after water
change today, I think it is always this reading, but have been doing a lot
of reading on filters,
<I don't understand what you are reading. How are you doing the testing?>
 I have a 40 whisper on a twenty tank, I also have a very old bio wheel
never changed wheel, but I did notice the flow is slower then it was years
and years ago.
<It should have a good stable colony of beneficial bacteria to help convert
the ammonia to nitrate.
Even if I didn't have that biowheel, shouild the rated 40 whisper filter be
enough for surface agitation along with a 5 inch airstone, does any of this
have an affect on ammonia in water?
<With the airstone, certainly. Has no impact on ammonia other than as I
described above. - Rick>
Then there is the media from these filters, Here is the record I have of
the changes to them alternately
 whisper filter 10/18/12
bio filter 11/5/12
then latest
whisper filter 12/3/12
bio filter 12/28/12
Any thoughts on this, could it be a problem , I thought with established
tank that the last one with just 3 weeks between them would be okay to do?
Thanks '
Cathy
<I only change my filer media when it physically starts becoming
ineffective. I just rinse it in tank water with every water change and put
it back. This keeps the bacterial colony at full strength and it costs a
whole lot less, too. You might be causing mini cycle crashes changing that
often, but you are keeping the manufacturer happy.  Shampoo only says
lather-rinse-repeat because it uses twice as much.  - Rick>
would using some ammonia removing zeolite crystals help, I have a little
bag that I got with them I can put them in and hang somewhere in tank??
<As a short-term solution, sure.  Drop it into the filter if there's enough
room, otherwise try to put it somewhere there is current, like under the
waterfall from the filter or above the airstone. Zeolite is not a long-term
answer, but it will buy you time. - Rick>
<Your questions are easily answered by your simply searching the Net. Bob Fenner>
Subject: New Life Spectrum
ok, I found the new life spectrum food, Which one is best for old goldfish,
they have several kinds?? Also what is new life spectr thera a?? can I use
both of the regular and thera a?? I am glad they have sinking pellets!
Thanks
Goldfish food
Hello  I have been on here talking a lot lately of my common or comet goldfish I have with a loss of my biggest one a week ago, I am trying to do
my best for the ones I have left, I am feeding them Hikari wheat germ
sinking pellets, and wonder if that might have contributed to some of the
things I am finding wrong, one is my water I am looking into what to do
about that now, water people coming in on Monday. But as far as food goes I
was reading that one of you on wet web media feed their fish New Life
Spectrum pelleted and have for decades, Is this a good sinking pellet food
I can use for goldfish in tanks in the house? Not ponds??
<You can use good quality Goldfish foods both indoors and out. Because they
digest food slowly when it gets colder, Goldfish outdoors need a low
protein diet in autumn and early spring, compared to regular food in
summer. Goldfish indoors are kept warm all year round, so you can feed them
what you want, within reason.>
I am concerned with feeding them high protein food and have heard it might
be hard on older fish, Mine are about 13 yrs old. I know about the veggies,
and do give them peas,I will slowly introduce them to other veggies, but
for staple food I would like to know what you recommend or feed your
goldfish??
<Hands down the best food is plain old Pondweed, sold in pet shops by the
bunch. They'll graze on this stuff without any encouragement. Otherwise,
plenty of options. Do read here:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/fwsubwebindex/gldfshmalnut.htm
Lots of suggestions!>
Thanks again
Appreciate all the help you've been giving me!
Cathy
<Most welcome, Neale.>